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Post by hsbob on Sept 13, 2020 8:31:55 GMT -6
thehockeywriters.com/blackhawks-confusion-crawford-one-year-offer/I agree with this article as far as the team needing to decide if they consider themselves a PO team or a rebuild team and having the balls to communicate it but I doubt they're sure.....is anyone sure. As far as CC having to accept a lesser role.....to WHO? As far as CC accepting lesser than the 3.5M offered.......less than Ward got?
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Post by BigT on Sept 13, 2020 9:25:55 GMT -6
thehockeywriters.com/blackhawks-confusion-crawford-one-year-offer/I agree with this article as far as the team needing to decide if they consider themselves a PO team or a rebuild team and having the balls to communicate it but I doubt they're sure.....is anyone sure. As far as CC having to accept a lesser role.....to WHO? As far as CC accepting lesser than the 3.5M offered.......less than Ward got? I’m not the biggest fan of the term rebuild. Especially with what we got. But I feel it’s the best way to go. It’ll take 5-6 years for a new GM to decide what he needs. But that ain’t happening and Stan and Colliton are probably here for at least 2 more years!!! |
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Post by LordKOTL on Sept 14, 2020 8:11:08 GMT -6
thehockeywriters.com/blackhawks-confusion-crawford-one-year-offer/I agree with this article as far as the team needing to decide if they consider themselves a PO team or a rebuild team and having the balls to communicate it but I doubt they're sure.....is anyone sure. As far as CC having to accept a lesser role.....to WHO? As far as CC accepting lesser than the 3.5M offered.......less than Ward got? In my opinion the "lesser role" would have to be giving the potential next gen goalies some icetime. I don't think for this coming year that would be much different that haw things went over the past couple of years what with Crawford being ran/concussed. A 50/32 split with the option of less if someone takes the reins would be fine. While history shows 35+ goalies are not a liability (like Thomas, Hašek, Roloson, etc.), they shouldn't be in the long-term plans. Given that goalies could take a lot of time to develop (and that the 'hawks don't have the cap for the goalie FA market), that should mean at this point in Crawford's career & the team situation, the 'hawks do need to get some of their younger guys out there at least to see what they got--whoever it is. They shouldn't be pushing Crawford in a 60-22 split unless the team was confident is winning and winning now--and they shouldn't be. Another thing that I believe I saw awhile ago was that Crawford could be interested in lesser cap over a longer timeframe...which in my opinion works better. If no one shows any promise next year after (assuming Crawford makes 3.5 over 1), that could set the 'hawks back. Crawford could command 3.5M or more the following season if once again he's the only option in net. Meanwhile, if he goes 2-2.75M over 2 years, he gets more cash overall, we have some certainty in net for another year, and an extra year to flesh out the position going forward. And if one of the young goalies shows promise for taking over? 2.75m as a backup the following season, or even as a 1B, is not a ton of cap to spend for the position. But I can say I'm not the least bit confident that Stan will move in that direction. I think Stan will overlooks the holes the team has and keeps the team in win now mode. |
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Post by hsbob on Sept 14, 2020 8:19:43 GMT -6
thehockeywriters.com/blackhawks-confusion-crawford-one-year-offer/I agree with this article as far as the team needing to decide if they consider themselves a PO team or a rebuild team and having the balls to communicate it but I doubt they're sure.....is anyone sure. As far as CC having to accept a lesser role.....to WHO? As far as CC accepting lesser than the 3.5M offered.......less than Ward got? In my opinion the "lesser role" would have to be giving the potential next gen goalies some icetime. I don't think for this coming year that would be much different that haw things went over the past couple of years what with Crawford being ran/concussed. A 50/32 split with the option of less if someone takes the reins would be fine. While history shows 35+ goalies are not a liability (like Thomas, Hašek, Roloson, etc.), they shouldn't be in the long-term plans. Given that goalies could take a lot of time to develop (and that the 'hawks don't have the cap for the goalie FA market), that should mean at this point in Crawford's career & the team situation, the 'hawks do need to get some of their younger guys out there at least to see what they got--whoever it is. They shouldn't be pushing Crawford in a 60-22 split unless the team was confident is winning and winning now--and they shouldn't be. Another thing that I believe I saw awhile ago was that Crawford could be interested in lesser cap over a longer timeframe...which in my opinion works better. If no one shows any promise next year after (assuming Crawford makes 3.5 over 1), that could set the 'hawks back. Crawford could command 3.5M or more the following season if once again he's the only option in net. Meanwhile, if he goes 2-2.75M over 2 years, he gets more cash overall, we have some certainty in net for another year, and an extra year to flesh out the position going forward. And if one of the young goalies shows promise for taking over? 2.75m as a backup the following season, or even as a 1B, is not a ton of cap to spend for the position. But I can say I'm not the least bit confident that Stan will move in that direction. I think Stan will overlooks the holes the team has and keeps the team in win now mode. I agree,50 healthy starts from CC would be ideal IF the other 32 go to Lankinen and/or Delia but I'm afraid SB panics and does something bad like last summer..... blackhawkup.com/2020/09/13/blackhawks-responding-hypothetical-trade-andersen-chicago/ |
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Post by BlueFruit on Sept 14, 2020 10:39:31 GMT -6
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Post by BlueFruit on Sept 14, 2020 10:54:05 GMT -6
T&K got 6.3 on their 2nd contract, you really think that D-cat is worth the same at the same point in their careers? D-cat was struggling to hit the net the first 2 months of the season. He had all the opportunity to get right. But he started to squeeze the sawdust from his sticks. Had a handful of "he's back" games only to slip back. He was still on the PP with Kaner but couldn't hit the puck or net. Kubi stepped up and filled in where D-cat slipped. I still think D-cat will rebound but as usual SB jumps the gun on a contract. Also cap friendly doesn't show Smith's contract being able to be bought out. I thought the upward trajectory D-Cat showed goin from 28 to 41 as a sophomore was likely a sign of things to come and probably still is. The kid looked comfortable and confident after a year with his old Jr's partner but our HC broke that up in game one and played them together sparingly from then on. I know D-Cat's play was off but the bottom six didn't work for a pure sniper and probably never will. Kane and Toews also had career years together a year ago only to also be separated and both also had less productive years because of it. Putting the right line combos together is challenging at times but braking up the right line combos is as easy as pie as our young genius showed us. Will have to see how the 2nd time through works for Kubalik,he'll take no one by surprise next year and D-Cat could easily bounce back and have a better year than Kubalik unless Nolander stays in the top six.....  According to Scott Powers of The Athletic, DeBrincat played with Strome more than any other player this year 5on5. "This past season, DeBrincat again played the most with Strome (463:19) and then Kane (396:37), Kirby Dach (357:31) and Toews (143:40). Five of DeBrincat’s seven goals came with Strome on the ice, compared to 13 from the season before. DeBrincat scored his most goals this past season while playing with Dach and Strome on a line. That was during a stretch where Strome was playing on the wing." |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Sept 14, 2020 13:38:54 GMT -6
In my opinion the "lesser role" would have to be giving the potential next gen goalies some icetime. I don't think for this coming year that would be much different that haw things went over the past couple of years what with Crawford being ran/concussed. A 50/32 split with the option of less if someone takes the reins would be fine. While history shows 35+ goalies are not a liability (like Thomas, Hašek, Roloson, etc.), they shouldn't be in the long-term plans. Given that goalies could take a lot of time to develop (and that the 'hawks don't have the cap for the goalie FA market), that should mean at this point in Crawford's career & the team situation, the 'hawks do need to get some of their younger guys out there at least to see what they got--whoever it is. They shouldn't be pushing Crawford in a 60-22 split unless the team was confident is winning and winning now--and they shouldn't be. Another thing that I believe I saw awhile ago was that Crawford could be interested in lesser cap over a longer timeframe...which in my opinion works better. If no one shows any promise next year after (assuming Crawford makes 3.5 over 1), that could set the 'hawks back. Crawford could command 3.5M or more the following season if once again he's the only option in net. Meanwhile, if he goes 2-2.75M over 2 years, he gets more cash overall, we have some certainty in net for another year, and an extra year to flesh out the position going forward. And if one of the young goalies shows promise for taking over? 2.75m as a backup the following season, or even as a 1B, is not a ton of cap to spend for the position. But I can say I'm not the least bit confident that Stan will move in that direction. I think Stan will overlooks the holes the team has and keeps the team in win now mode. I agree,50 healthy starts from CC would be ideal IF the other 32 go to Lankinen and/or Delia but I'm afraid SB panics and does something bad like last summer..... blackhawkup.com/2020/09/13/blackhawks-responding-hypothetical-trade-andersen-chicago/That would be a horrible trade, Boqvist and the 17th pick for a 30yr old goalie, no way, but it's a hypothetical trade idea from a Leaf fan. Unfortunately Stan in the GM, so you never know. I hope Edzo becomes the president and moves Stan to a position with no power or straight up fires him. |
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Post by BigT on Sept 14, 2020 15:56:46 GMT -6
In my opinion the "lesser role" would have to be giving the potential next gen goalies some icetime. I don't think for this coming year that would be much different that haw things went over the past couple of years what with Crawford being ran/concussed. A 50/32 split with the option of less if someone takes the reins would be fine. While history shows 35+ goalies are not a liability (like Thomas, Hašek, Roloson, etc.), they shouldn't be in the long-term plans. Given that goalies could take a lot of time to develop (and that the 'hawks don't have the cap for the goalie FA market), that should mean at this point in Crawford's career & the team situation, the 'hawks do need to get some of their younger guys out there at least to see what they got--whoever it is. They shouldn't be pushing Crawford in a 60-22 split unless the team was confident is winning and winning now--and they shouldn't be. Another thing that I believe I saw awhile ago was that Crawford could be interested in lesser cap over a longer timeframe...which in my opinion works better. If no one shows any promise next year after (assuming Crawford makes 3.5 over 1), that could set the 'hawks back. Crawford could command 3.5M or more the following season if once again he's the only option in net. Meanwhile, if he goes 2-2.75M over 2 years, he gets more cash overall, we have some certainty in net for another year, and an extra year to flesh out the position going forward. And if one of the young goalies shows promise for taking over? 2.75m as a backup the following season, or even as a 1B, is not a ton of cap to spend for the position. But I can say I'm not the least bit confident that Stan will move in that direction. I think Stan will overlooks the holes the team has and keeps the team in win now mode. I agree,50 healthy starts from CC would be ideal IF the other 32 go to Lankinen and/or Delia but I'm afraid SB panics and does something bad like last summer..... blackhawkup.com/2020/09/13/blackhawks-responding-hypothetical-trade-andersen-chicago/Bob..... ohhh Bob. I’m telling ya! I already said Stan would do something stupid again. Remember my proclamation that he would literally trade our first rounder for an overpaid tender? That trade up there is far worse. But SB has a history of trading his first rounders whether it be the pick or the player. Like, that trade idea is the dumbest thing the ever come out of anyone’s mouth at any time or place. Yet when it pertains to ole Scambo, it usually is bad news anyways!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Sept 14, 2020 17:03:03 GMT -6
I thought the upward trajectory D-Cat showed goin from 28 to 41 as a sophomore was likely a sign of things to come and probably still is. The kid looked comfortable and confident after a year with his old Jr's partner but our HC broke that up in game one and played them together sparingly from then on. I know D-Cat's play was off but the bottom six didn't work for a pure sniper and probably never will. Kane and Toews also had career years together a year ago only to also be separated and both also had less productive years because of it. Putting the right line combos together is challenging at times but braking up the right line combos is as easy as pie as our young genius showed us. Will have to see how the 2nd time through works for Kubalik,he'll take no one by surprise next year and D-Cat could easily bounce back and have a better year than Kubalik unless Nolander stays in the top six..... According to Scott Powers of The Athletic, DeBrincat played with Strome more than any other player this year 5on5. "This past season, DeBrincat again played the most with Strome (463:19) and then Kane (396:37), Kirby Dach (357:31) and Toews (143:40). Five of DeBrincat’s seven goals came with Strome on the ice, compared to 13 from the season before. DeBrincat scored his most goals this past season while playing with Dach and Strome on a line. That was during a stretch where Strome was playing on the wing." Got a link for those stats? The question remains why wouldn't D-Cat skate with the guy he had a career year with all the time and why did the coach go away from that in the 2nd period of the 1st game? D-Cat and Strome saw a lotta minutes(don't have a Scott Powers to back it up)on the bottom six and I don't need anyone to confirm that because I watch all the games. Room HAD to be made for Nolander on the top six so much better players saw bottom six minutes. Was your point only to contradict? |
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Post by hawkinmontreal on Sept 14, 2020 17:52:37 GMT -6
I read an article saying the Hawks were going to buy Matta and Smith out going into this season. There was also talk of trading KoKo for a draft pick. Wow, that would hurt for a while. I don’t think there’s much benefits in those buyouts. They’ll hurt the team from being any type of competitive for a few years. But, I think that’s coming regardless!!! Don’t shoot the messenger, I will search for the link. |
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Post by hawkinmontreal on Sept 14, 2020 18:01:04 GMT -6
That would be a horrible trade, Boqvist and the 17th pick for a 30yr old goalie, no way, but it's a hypothetical trade idea from a Leaf fan. Unfortunately Stan in the GM, so you never know. I hope Edzo becomes the president and moves Stan to a position with no power or straight up fires him. That would be a horrible trade. I know it’s only hypothetical, but the humerus thing about it, Boqvist name is involved. Stan went of the board and pick him up, 2 seasons later the kid is in trade talks while the Joker is maturing as a very serviceable d-man in Buffalo. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Sept 14, 2020 19:04:36 GMT -6
According to Scott Powers of The Athletic, DeBrincat played with Strome more than any other player this year 5on5. "This past season, DeBrincat again played the most with Strome (463:19) and then Kane (396:37), Kirby Dach (357:31) and Toews (143:40). Five of DeBrincat’s seven goals came with Strome on the ice, compared to 13 from the season before. DeBrincat scored his most goals this past season while playing with Dach and Strome on a line. That was during a stretch where Strome was playing on the wing." The question remains why wouldn't D-Cat skate with the guy he had a career year with all the time and why did the coach go away from that in the 2nd period of the 1st game? D-Cat and Strome saw a lotta minutes(don't have a Scott Powers to back it up)on the bottom six and I don't need anyone to confirm that because I watch all the games. Room HAD to be made for Nolander on the top six so much better players saw bottom six minutes. Was your point only to contradict? it's a bit of a bear to use but if you want to confirm scott powers' numbers in bluefruit's post, hit the link, click players, line tools, switch from playoffs to regular season, pick a team (chicago) and then hit submit. then you can plunk in player's names at will to see how they did together. the numbers powers used are exactly the same. i've heard 2 or 3 pundits on twitter mention they use this site. i'm going to try and use it more because there is so much useful info in it (plus a lot i don't understand) but like i said it isn't the most user friendly but then again i haven't used it much so it will likely get easier the more it gets used. and according to that site in 2018/19 (5 on 5 play) cat and strome played 481:24 minutes together compared to 463:19 this season. strome played 58 games in each of the last 2 seasons. their powerplay time together was a bit more lopsided across the 2 seasons. 2018/19 - 163:12 minutes together. 2019/20 - 117:54 minutes together. so in all situations, if i didn't cock up the math, cat/strome played together about 1:06 min. less/game together in 2019/20 than in 2018/19. these were d-cat's linemates in the playoffs with the top 5 most minutes... kane - 66:50 min. 5 on 5, 4:48 min. on the pp. strome - 56:37, 12:46 dach - 63:22, 1:01 saad - 23:28, 12:43 nylander - 9:18, 8:33 and these were d-cat's and strome's third on their line top 5 minutes in the playoffs. (all strengths) saad - 32:04 min. kane - 19:48 nylander - 17:40 highmore - 8:25 carpenter - 2:30 and about nylander's minutes in the playoffs. (10:48 min./game) he was actually 11th among the 13 forwards who skated in the playoffs, ahead of only highmore (10:08) and johnQ (9:57). but that was about 10:48 min./game too much. nylander (8 games) and johnQ (2 games) were the only scoreless forwards in that group. |
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Post by hsbob on Sept 15, 2020 8:50:27 GMT -6
Got a link for those stats? The question remains why wouldn't D-Cat skate with the guy he had a career year with all the time and why did the coach go away from that in the 2nd period of the 1st game? D-Cat and Strome saw a lotta minutes(don't have a Scott Powers to back it up)on the bottom six and I don't need anyone to confirm that because I watch all the games. Room HAD to be made for Nolander on the top six so much better players saw bottom six minutes. Was your point only to contradict? it's a bit of a bear to use but if you want to confirm scott powers' numbers in bluefruit's post, hit the link, click players, line tools, switch from playoffs to regular season, pick a team (chicago) and then hit submit. then you can plunk in player's names at will to see how they did together. the numbers powers used are exactly the same. i've heard 2 or 3 pundits on twitter mention they use this site. i'm going to try and use it more because there is so much useful info in it (plus a lot i don't understand) but like i said it isn't the most user friendly but then again i haven't used it much so it will likely get easier the more it gets used. and according to that site in 2018/19 (5 on 5 play) cat and strome played 481:24 minutes together compared to 463:19 this season. strome played 58 games in each of the last 2 seasons. their powerplay time together was a bit more lopsided across the 2 seasons. 2018/19 - 163:12 minutes together. 2019/20 - 117:54 minutes together. so in all situations, if i didn't cock up the math, cat/strome played together about 1:06 min. less/game together in 2019/20 than in 2018/19. these were d-cat's linemates in the playoffs with the top 5 most minutes... kane - 66:50 min. 5 on 5, 4:48 min. on the pp. strome - 56:37, 12:46 dach - 63:22, 1:01 saad - 23:28, 12:43 nylander - 9:18, 8:33 and these were d-cat's and strome's third on their line top 5 minutes in the playoffs. (all strengths) saad - 32:04 min. kane - 19:48 nylander - 17:40 highmore - 8:25 carpenter - 2:30 and about nylander's minutes in the playoffs. (10:48 min./game) he was actually 11th among the 13 forwards who skated in the playoffs, ahead of only highmore (10:08) and johnQ (9:57). but that was about 10:48 min./game too much. nylander (8 games) and johnQ (2 games) were the only scoreless forwards in that group. Thanks but if it's hard to use,I probably won't but at least I'll be corrected by those who do.......LOL! I watch just about every minute of every game and I don't recall seeing the two forwards together as much this year just like K&T and I heard a "balanced scoring" explanation when the HC was asked about it. I also KNOW I saw both forwards in the bottom six quite a bit because,once again,I watch just about every minute of every game. Does this stat outfit actually have a person for each team with a stop watch timing EVERY line change or do they watch the replays and time it then? How much time did Nolander spend in the top six in the regular season? I appreciate this explanation but wonder if bluefruit's only purpose was to set me straight with stats and numbers or if he/she has has something to actually say on this issue. It's no one else's fault if the game's passed me by I guess but I just can't enjoy the game with a slide rule in one hand,cut's into my drinkin' and smokin' time! |
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Post by BlueFruit on Sept 15, 2020 13:43:13 GMT -6
According to Scott Powers of The Athletic, DeBrincat played with Strome more than any other player this year 5on5. "This past season, DeBrincat again played the most with Strome (463:19) and then Kane (396:37), Kirby Dach (357:31) and Toews (143:40). Five of DeBrincat’s seven goals came with Strome on the ice, compared to 13 from the season before. DeBrincat scored his most goals this past season while playing with Dach and Strome on a line. That was during a stretch where Strome was playing on the wing." Got a link for those stats? The question remains why wouldn't D-Cat skate with the guy he had a career year with all the time and why did the coach go away from that in the 2nd period of the 1st game? D-Cat and Strome saw a lotta minutes(don't have a Scott Powers to back it up)on the bottom six and I don't need anyone to confirm that because I watch all the games. Room HAD to be made for Nolander on the top six so much better players saw bottom six minutes. Was your point only to contradict? Link to the article. It´s behind a paywall, that´s why i posted the quote. theathletic.com/2043568/2020/09/04/blackhawks-alex-debrincat-struggle-to-score-bounce-back/Scott Powers is usually very thorough in his articles so I don´t see any reason to think hes not right. It wasn´t just to contradict, but more to prove a point that what you see and what´s correct is not always the same. I too watch all the games. |
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Post by hsbob on Sept 15, 2020 18:09:41 GMT -6
Got a link for those stats? The question remains why wouldn't D-Cat skate with the guy he had a career year with all the time and why did the coach go away from that in the 2nd period of the 1st game? D-Cat and Strome saw a lotta minutes(don't have a Scott Powers to back it up)on the bottom six and I don't need anyone to confirm that because I watch all the games. Room HAD to be made for Nolander on the top six so much better players saw bottom six minutes. Was your point only to contradict? Link to the article. It´s behind a paywall, that´s why i posted the quote. theathletic.com/2043568/2020/09/04/blackhawks-alex-debrincat-struggle-to-score-bounce-back/Scott Powers is usually very thorough in his articles so I don´t see any reason to think hes not right. It wasn´t just to contradict, but more to prove a point that what you see and what´s correct is not always the same. I too watch all the games. I'm not payin' for it but I have 'paid for it' in the past....LOL! Look my friend,I don't don't doubt the numbers but the numbers can't show everything. How many of those minutes together were Strome and D-Cat on wing with Carpenter the pivot? 463 divided by the 58 games Strome played shows just under 8 a game with his old Jr's pal or about half the time or less and maybe some of those minutes together were with Nolander he'll kill any line! I know my eyes saw JC go away from the combo in the 2nd period of the first game for some reason and my one good eye sees 8 minutes a game together about half or less of the time. If JC was intent on separating K&T(unless I'm wrong here too) why not put Kane with the two young forwards coming off exceptional years together and see what you had for a month or so but I believe SOMEBODY wanted Nolander in the top six. Strome had 34 helpers in 58 games last year and 26 in 58 this down year,he's a pretty good set up man and high 40's at the dot and I believe these things make him a center. He also went through a high ankle sprain that set him back. Since you didn't opine or elaborate why you posted these stats, ie; critique a player or support the HC's decision,I figured you just wanted to prove to me "that what I see and what's correct is not always the same" or in other words just prove me wrong and that's okay,nothing personal. We all need purpose. I state my opinion as I see it and I post why I think it's valid not just to prove someone wrong but maybe I'm wrong here too!LOL! I appreciate the chatter |
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Post by LordKOTL on Sept 16, 2020 8:16:38 GMT -6
I definitely wouldn't have minded Lehner on that deal, but someone would definitely have to move to make it possible. The 'hawks have about 7M free right now. They still need 1-2 FWDs (including resigning Koob), as well as a 2-3C, plus 2G need to be on the books. Lehner @5m plus Koob (~4M by my guesstimation) would be 9M in-and-of-itself. They would still need a cheap 2-3C as well as another goalie which would be ~1M. Now, granted, if the talks with Lehner materialized this past season the 'hawks could have been primed to make some moves, but even right now I'm shuddering to think about how every other GM will have Stan over a barrel with their pants unzipped. Right now, the 'hawks pretty much have to move one of Murph, DeHaan, or Maata--and they need to do so with as little cap coming back as possible--which might mean giving assets up. Barring that they might have to move Saad and he's been good. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Sept 16, 2020 9:35:49 GMT -6
In my opinion the "lesser role" would have to be giving the potential next gen goalies some icetime. I don't think for this coming year that would be much different that haw things went over the past couple of years what with Crawford being ran/concussed. A 50/32 split with the option of less if someone takes the reins would be fine. While history shows 35+ goalies are not a liability (like Thomas, Hašek, Roloson, etc.), they shouldn't be in the long-term plans. Given that goalies could take a lot of time to develop (and that the 'hawks don't have the cap for the goalie FA market), that should mean at this point in Crawford's career & the team situation, the 'hawks do need to get some of their younger guys out there at least to see what they got--whoever it is. They shouldn't be pushing Crawford in a 60-22 split unless the team was confident is winning and winning now--and they shouldn't be. Another thing that I believe I saw awhile ago was that Crawford could be interested in lesser cap over a longer timeframe...which in my opinion works better. If no one shows any promise next year after (assuming Crawford makes 3.5 over 1), that could set the 'hawks back. Crawford could command 3.5M or more the following season if once again he's the only option in net. Meanwhile, if he goes 2-2.75M over 2 years, he gets more cash overall, we have some certainty in net for another year, and an extra year to flesh out the position going forward. And if one of the young goalies shows promise for taking over? 2.75m as a backup the following season, or even as a 1B, is not a ton of cap to spend for the position. But I can say I'm not the least bit confident that Stan will move in that direction. I think Stan will overlooks the holes the team has and keeps the team in win now mode. I agree,50 healthy starts from CC would be ideal IF the other 32 go to Lankinen and/or Delia but I'm afraid SB panics and does something bad like last summer..... blackhawkup.com/2020/09/13/blackhawks-responding-hypothetical-trade-andersen-chicago/That's the other side of things. It seems to me that since the last cup Stan is reactionary in his dealings. I'm not a psychologist but I've mentioned before Stan likes to think he's the smartest guy in the room and likes to think he's got it all figured out. I think Stan think that he's just 1 or 2 special pieces away from dominance again, when, at least in my opinion, we are way too far from that at this point. Flipping for a now-hot goalie like Lehner wouldn't have been a bad move if we could jettison the cap, but Andersen isn't better than Crawford. His numbers a similar to slightly less while seeing a lot less rubber so acquiring Andersen doesn't do much--and we'd be paying ~5M for it vs. Crawford who we should be able to tuck in for about 3.5M or less. It seems to me that yes, Stan is panicking, but even more so he's banking on catching lightning in a bottle again. That's not the smart way to do it. The thing that gets me about the whole scenario is that we, as the fans, get to see Stan double-down on a losing cause how many more times before he's shown the door? |
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Post by hsbob on Sept 16, 2020 10:05:46 GMT -6
That's the other side of things. It seems to me that since the last cup Stan is reactionary in his dealings. I'm not a psychologist but I've mentioned before Stan likes to think he's the smartest guy in the room and likes to think he's got it all figured out. I think Stan think that he's just 1 or 2 special pieces away from dominance again, when, at least in my opinion, we are way too far from that at this point. Flipping for a now-hot goalie like Lehner wouldn't have been a bad move if we could jettison the cap, but Andersen isn't better than Crawford. His numbers a similar to slightly less while seeing a lot less rubber so acquiring Andersen doesn't do much--and we'd be paying ~5M for it vs. Crawford who we should be able to tuck in for about 3.5M or less. It seems to me that yes, Stan is panicking, but even more so he's banking on catching lightning in a bottle again. That's not the smart way to do it. The thing that gets me about the whole scenario is that we, as the fans, get to see Stan double-down on a losing cause how many more times before he's shown the door? No GM saw a stagnant cap coming last summer but ours did spend a LOT of space on not a lot of production IMO. 7M+ on Smith and Shaw to watch the PO's? You pointed out the the possibility of losing Joker to the expansion draft and rightly so but I feel the kid coulda been ONE HELL of a sweetener that could have allowed losing a bad contract.......we got Nolander instead and there's nothin' sweet about that! Pretentions of being a PO team could continue to cost the franchise,as much as I appreciate the core guys,a few will have to go to rebuild properly...IMO. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Sept 16, 2020 12:55:12 GMT -6
That's the other side of things. It seems to me that since the last cup Stan is reactionary in his dealings. I'm not a psychologist but I've mentioned before Stan likes to think he's the smartest guy in the room and likes to think he's got it all figured out. I think Stan think that he's just 1 or 2 special pieces away from dominance again, when, at least in my opinion, we are way too far from that at this point. Flipping for a now-hot goalie like Lehner wouldn't have been a bad move if we could jettison the cap, but Andersen isn't better than Crawford. His numbers a similar to slightly less while seeing a lot less rubber so acquiring Andersen doesn't do much--and we'd be paying ~5M for it vs. Crawford who we should be able to tuck in for about 3.5M or less. It seems to me that yes, Stan is panicking, but even more so he's banking on catching lightning in a bottle again. That's not the smart way to do it. The thing that gets me about the whole scenario is that we, as the fans, get to see Stan double-down on a losing cause how many more times before he's shown the door? No GM saw a stagnant cap coming last summer but ours did spend a LOT of space on not a lot of production IMO. 7M+ on Smith and Shaw to watch the PO's? You pointed out the the possibility of losing Joker to the expansion draft and rightly so but I feel the kid coulda been ONE HELL of a sweetener that could have allowed losing a bad contract.......we got Nolander instead and there's nothin' sweet about that! Pretentions of being a PO team could continue to cost the franchise,as much as I appreciate the core guys,a few will have to go to rebuild properly...IMO. You're preaching to the choir, my good sir. My opinion of course but I think 2018 proved that this team was not inherently a playoff team anymore. In that sense Stan screwed the pooch this past summer: Lehner could have been given a pass if and only if he was resigned as the next goalie. The 'hawks could have eaten 11M in goalie cap, let Crawford ride away and given Lehner a similar deal, and it would have given the team more time to flesh out the rookie netminders. It didn't happen, of course--and Stan screwed up on that one. The rest I thought were a waste. The D is in shambles and Stan blew >7M on 2 extra middle pair guys--one of which was out with major injuries. There's something like 24M taken up by 5 D-men. So, when exactly were we going to bring along the new guys and find out what we *really* have in them? You rightfully mentioned Smith and Shaw. There's also the incoming Debrincat extension. For a team in transition that was a bad move. Like you said: pretensions of being a PO team. Those moves were made as if we could win now, but not only didn't we do it, but they weren't even moves that made the team stronger or filled a need. Maata? Maybe. One of Smith or Shaw? Maybe. The rest? What was the point? Nylander is pointless waste, yes. I do think you're onto something with Joker being a potential sweetener. Here's the thing I saw: JC didn't like him so he got less and less playing time, which would have eroded his TDL value (at least on our team). On a well-run team I could have seen Joker being a good sweetener. Unfortunately, I don't think the 'hawks are well-run at this point. |
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Post by BlueFruit on Sept 16, 2020 13:23:37 GMT -6
I'm not payin' for it but I have 'paid for it' in the past....LOL! Look my friend,I don't don't doubt the numbers but the numbers can't show everything. How many of those minutes together were Strome and D-Cat on wing with Carpenter the pivot? 463 divided by the 58 games Strome played shows just under 8 a game with his old Jr's pal or about half the time or less and maybe some of those minutes together were with Nolander he'll kill any line! I know my eyes saw JC go away from the combo in the 2nd period of the first game for some reason and my one good eye sees 8 minutes a game together about half or less of the time. If JC was intent on separating K&T(unless I'm wrong here too) why not put Kane with the two young forwards coming off exceptional years together and see what you had for a month or so but I believe SOMEBODY wanted Nolander in the top six. Strome had 34 helpers in 58 games last year and 26 in 58 this down year,he's a pretty good set up man and high 40's at the dot and I believe these things make him a center. He also went through a high ankle sprain that set him back. Since you didn't opine or elaborate why you posted these stats, ie; critique a player or support the HC's decision,I figured you just wanted to prove to me "that what I see and what's correct is not always the same" or in other words just prove me wrong and that's okay,nothing personal. We all need purpose. I state my opinion as I see it and I post why I think it's valid not just to prove someone wrong but maybe I'm wrong here too!LOL! I appreciate the chatter You have been very vocal regarding that JC didn´t play them together as much as he should have, so I can understand how you feel I just wanted to prove you wrong. That wasn´t my objective. It was more of showing that what you (not you in particular, but you as in anyone) see and what is facts doesn´t always come out the same. With that said, I too had very different opinions than the coach on how to set up the lines and distribute playing time. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Sept 16, 2020 21:21:22 GMT -6
www.naturalstattrick.com/it's a bit of a bear to use but if you want to confirm scott powers' numbers in bluefruit's post, hit the link, click players, line tools, switch from playoffs to regular season, pick a team (chicago) and then hit submit. then you can plunk in player's names at will to see how they did together. the numbers powers used are exactly the same. i've heard 2 or 3 pundits on twitter mention they use this site. i'm going to try and use it more because there is so much useful info in it (plus a lot i don't understand) but like i said it isn't the most user friendly but then again i haven't used it much so it will likely get easier the more it gets used. and according to that site in 2018/19 (5 on 5 play) cat and strome played 481:24 minutes together compared to 463:19 this season. strome played 58 games in each of the last 2 seasons. their powerplay time together was a bit more lopsided across the 2 seasons. 2018/19 - 163:12 minutes together. 2019/20 - 117:54 minutes together. so in all situations, if i didn't cock up the math, cat/strome played together about 1:06 min. less/game together in 2019/20 than in 2018/19. these were d-cat's linemates in the playoffs with the top 5 most minutes... kane - 66:50 min. 5 on 5, 4:48 min. on the pp. strome - 56:37, 12:46 dach - 63:22, 1:01 saad - 23:28, 12:43 nylander - 9:18, 8:33 and these were d-cat's and strome's third on their line top 5 minutes in the playoffs. (all strengths) saad - 32:04 min. kane - 19:48 nylander - 17:40 highmore - 8:25 carpenter - 2:30 and about nylander's minutes in the playoffs. (10:48 min./game) he was actually 11th among the 13 forwards who skated in the playoffs, ahead of only highmore (10:08) and johnQ (9:57). but that was about 10:48 min./game too much. nylander (8 games) and johnQ (2 games) were the only scoreless forwards in that group. How much time did Nolander spend in the top six in the regular season? fingers crossed i am deciphering this correctly...according to naturalstattrick, here are the (majority of) forwards nylander skated with in the regular season. all times are rounded up/down and the minutes are in all situations/strengths. (5 on 5, PP, PK, etc.) JT 243 min. kane 215 saad 214 carp 159 strome 151 kampf 133 dach 100 smith 97 highmore 95 kubalik 88 cagg 50 dcat 44 so he had his fair share of time on the ice with our 3 best players. also in the regular season, of all hawks' 14 forwards who played 10 games or more...nylander's 12:08 minutes/game ranked 11th ahead of just caggs, smith and highmore. as much as i've tried to like the guy or find some (any) redeeming qualities, i threw in the towel long ago....i hope and pray that nylander somehow gets grabbed in the expansion draft by the kracken. or he goes for a swim in the ocean and a real kracken grabs him. you can't use him as a sweetener in a trade unless you find a g.m. who likes salt in his coffee... |
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Post by LordKOTL on Sept 17, 2020 8:06:45 GMT -6
How much time did Nolander spend in the top six in the regular season? fingers crossed i am deciphering this correctly...according to naturalstattrick, here are the (majority of) forwards nylander skated with in the regular season. all times are rounded up/down and the minutes are in all situations/strengths. (5 on 5, PP, PK, etc.) JT 243 min. kane 215 saad 214 carp 159 strome 151 kampf 133 dach 100 smith 97 highmore 95 kubalik 88 cagg 50 dcat 44 so he had his fair share of time on the ice with our 3 best players. also in the regular season, of all hawks' 14 forwards who played 10 games or more...nylander's 12:08 minutes/game ranked 11th ahead of just caggs, smith and highmore. as much as i've tried to like the guy or find some (any) redeeming qualities, i threw in the towel long ago....i hope and pray that nylander somehow gets grabbed in the expansion draft by the kracken. or he goes for a swim in the ocean and a real kracken grabs him. you can't use him as a sweetener in a trade unless you find a g.m. who likes salt in his coffee... ...so, Stan needs to trade Nylander to Stan  The only good thing about Nylander is that he's only signed through next season, and anyone paying attention knows he may have talent, but he rarely brings it to bear. Unfortunately some fans are just blinded by the talent upside, but negate the "bringing it" factor which kills a lot of players. The playoffs should have been the wake-up call for the 'hawks. Nylander got time in the top-6 and just lollygagged it--in a playoff-play-in scenario. Nylander looked like Karpo v2.0 while Debrincat looked like he was trying. At <1M that amount is not really killing the 'hawks. It can be fully buried and he is waivers-exempt. I have full (un)confidence that Stan will try to strongarm JC into using him well-past his use-by date if he doesn't get his head and ass wired together and plays like he wants to be an NHL'er, because how else would Stan appear to be the smartest guy in the room. I think when he does fail though, the onus is on Stan to get rid of him. Styan has shown the ability to cut ties with guys he once liked, so there's that at least. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Sept 17, 2020 10:25:27 GMT -6
Back to the main topic lol Crawford, it sounds like the Hawks are in contention to get Darcy Kuemper, he's 30 and makes 4.5 for 2 more years, if they get him does Crow sign the 1yr contract or does he walk?
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Post by hsbob on Sept 17, 2020 10:29:02 GMT -6
fingers crossed i am deciphering this correctly...according to naturalstattrick, here are the (majority of) forwards nylander skated with in the regular season. all times are rounded up/down and the minutes are in all situations/strengths. (5 on 5, PP, PK, etc.) JT 243 min. kane 215 saad 214 carp 159 strome 151 kampf 133 dach 100 smith 97 highmore 95 kubalik 88 cagg 50 dcat 44 so he had his fair share of time on the ice with our 3 best players. also in the regular season, of all hawks' 14 forwards who played 10 games or more...nylander's 12:08 minutes/game ranked 11th ahead of just caggs, smith and highmore. as much as i've tried to like the guy or find some (any) redeeming qualities, i threw in the towel long ago....i hope and pray that nylander somehow gets grabbed in the expansion draft by the kracken. or he goes for a swim in the ocean and a real kracken grabs him. you can't use him as a sweetener in a trade unless you find a g.m. who likes salt in his coffee... ...so, Stan needs to trade Nylander to Stan The only good thing about Nylander is that he's only signed through next season, and anyone paying attention knows he may have talent, but he rarely brings it to bear. Unfortunately some fans are just blinded by the talent upside, but negate the "bringing it" factor which kills a lot of players. The playoffs should have been the wake-up call for the 'hawks. Nylander got time in the top-6 and just lollygagged it--in a playoff-play-in scenario. Nylander looked like Karpo v2.0 while Debrincat looked like he was trying. At <1M that amount is not really killing the 'hawks. It can be fully buried and he is waivers-exempt. I have full (un)confidence that Stan will try to strongarm JC into using him well-past his use-by date if he doesn't get his head and ass wired together and plays like he wants to be an NHL'er, because how else would Stan appear to be the smartest guy in the room. I think when he does fail though, the onus is on Stan to get rid of him. Styan has shown the ability to cut ties with guys he once liked, so there's that at least. Obviously he is going to have to put the work in to win over the fanbase, but we should expect him to truly stake his claim as a middle 6 option for the Blackhawks with consistent offensive production and as a power-play specialist. The above quote is from this article and is as wishful as thinking can get IMO...... blackhawkup.com/2020/09/15/expect-blackhawks-forward-alex-nylander-20-21/ |
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Post by hsbob on Sept 17, 2020 10:31:49 GMT -6
Back to the main topic lol Crawford, it sounds like the Hawks are in contention to get Darcy Kuemper, he's 30 and makes 4.5 for 2 more years, if they get him does Crow sign the 1yr contract or does he walk? CC said the role he plays here is more important than the money so I doubt he stays if a FA is brought in and the Hawks can't afford 8M at the position anyway. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Sept 17, 2020 10:36:50 GMT -6
Back to the main topic lol Crawford, it sounds like the Hawks are in contention to get Darcy Kuemper, he's 30 and makes 4.5 for 2 more years, if they get him does Crow sign the 1yr contract or does he walk? CC said the role he plays here is more important the the money so I doubt he stays if a FA is brought in and the Hawks can't afford 8M at the position anyway. I was thinking the same thing when I heard the Hawks are one of three teams trying to get Kuemper. If they get Darcy, Crow will most likely walk and the Hawks would trade someone like Maatta, plus Arizona can probably take Shaw or Smith. |
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Post by hsbob on Sept 17, 2020 10:48:13 GMT -6
CC said the role he plays here is more important the the money so I doubt he stays if a FA is brought in and the Hawks can't afford 8M at the position anyway. I was thinking the same thing when I heard the Hawks are one of three teams trying to get Kuemper. If they get Darcy, Crow will most likely walk and the Hawks would trade someone like Maatta, plus Arizona can probably take Shaw or Smith. Shaw and Smith both would require assets going along with em or money coming back unless AZ owes us one........two unforcd errors! |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Sept 17, 2020 11:05:29 GMT -6
I was thinking the same thing when I heard the Hawks are one of three teams trying to get Kuemper. If they get Darcy, Crow will most likely walk and the Hawks would trade someone like Maatta, plus Arizona can probably take Shaw or Smith. Shaw and Smith both would require assets going along with em or money coming back unless AZ owes us one........two unforcd errors! It'd be a few pieces to this trade, similar to the Hoss trade to Arizona. It shouldn't take a high end prospect like Kurashev to move either Smith or Shaw considering they could be on the LTIR and don't have huge long contracts. They're huge contracts to the Hawks but a prospect like Krys or hopefully Sikura could do it, and maybe a later pick like a 4th or 5th. Plus they'd get Maatta, big young dman with 2 Cups and was productive in the playoffs. I don't understand why the Hawks would buy him out when he has value 🤔 I hope the rumors are true because Kuemper is a big Canadian boy with a .918 career save percentage. Late 20's, early 30's is when goalies usually hit their prime. 2yrs at 4.5 per and the backup making 1mill or less is a good goalie cap hit. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 11:06:59 GMT -6
How much time did Nolander spend in the top six in the regular season? fingers crossed i am deciphering this correctly...according to naturalstattrick, here are the (majority of) forwards nylander skated with in the regular season. all times are rounded up/down and the minutes are in all situations/strengths. (5 on 5, PP, PK, etc.) JT 243 min. kane 215 saad 214 carp 159 strome 151 kampf 133 dach 100 smith 97 highmore 95 kubalik 88 cagg 50 dcat 44 so he had his fair share of time on the ice with our 3 best players. also in the regular season, of all hawks' 14 forwards who played 10 games or more...nylander's 12:08 minutes/game ranked 11th ahead of just caggs, smith and highmore. as much as i've tried to like the guy or find some (any) redeeming qualities, i threw in the towel long ago....i hope and pray that nylander somehow gets grabbed in the expansion draft by the kracken. or he goes for a swim in the ocean and a real kracken grabs him. you can't use him as a sweetener in a trade unless you find a g.m. who likes salt in his coffee...  |
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Post by LordKOTL on Sept 17, 2020 11:07:01 GMT -6
...so, Stan needs to trade Nylander to Stan The only good thing about Nylander is that he's only signed through next season, and anyone paying attention knows he may have talent, but he rarely brings it to bear. Unfortunately some fans are just blinded by the talent upside, but negate the "bringing it" factor which kills a lot of players. The playoffs should have been the wake-up call for the 'hawks. Nylander got time in the top-6 and just lollygagged it--in a playoff-play-in scenario. Nylander looked like Karpo v2.0 while Debrincat looked like he was trying. At <1M that amount is not really killing the 'hawks. It can be fully buried and he is waivers-exempt. I have full (un)confidence that Stan will try to strongarm JC into using him well-past his use-by date if he doesn't get his head and ass wired together and plays like he wants to be an NHL'er, because how else would Stan appear to be the smartest guy in the room. I think when he does fail though, the onus is on Stan to get rid of him. Styan has shown the ability to cut ties with guys he once liked, so there's that at least. Obviously he is going to have to put the work in to win over the fanbase, but we should expect him to truly stake his claim as a middle 6 option for the Blackhawks with consistent offensive production and as a power-play specialist. The above quote is from this article and is as wishful as thinking can get IMO...... blackhawkup.com/2020/09/15/expect-blackhawks-forward-alex-nylander-20-21/Yep. My biggest concern with Nylander is effort. He's like Stan: Trying to ride on his daddy's coattails. Yes, I went there.  If he does go nose-to-the-grindstone this coming year I have no issues whatsoever keeping him here and in the lineup--and extending him with a paycheck commensurate with what he actually brings--so if he plays like a #2 winger? Pay him as such. As a #3 winger? Pay him as such. If he keep the same effort he did this past season and only brings it occasionally? Let him walk. Right now though? He's 100% completely bury-able so if Stan plays it smart he should absolutely not dump him for less than his actual worth on the ice. As a piece in a larger deal? Sure. But if there are no takers for Nylander, bury him in Rockford. |
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