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Post by LordKOTL on Jan 14, 2021 9:21:32 GMT -6
You're operating under the assumption that Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook don't have any movement clauses on their contracts. They do--full NMC's. If they don't want to be traded, they won't be traded. If they don't want to be exposed to the Seattle expansion, they won't. If they want to stick it to Stan and limit the roster flexibility for him by taking a sizable cap chunk, that's their prerogative. If they want to stay on the 'hawks for whatever reason they are within their rights to do so...whether we like it or not. If they want out, all they have to do is ask. Honestly, I thought both should have gone after the 2018 fustercluck. I think (i have no proof) that Q lost the room irrespective of his accolades and the Beancounter is the Beancounter. That being said, I'm not going to hate on JC simply because he's a Stan Guy. I'll hate on him for what he does himself. Still, he's on the 'hawks for now at least so I'll want him to do well--whether he does or not. I am aware of their NMC clauses. I am of the assumption that none of the four would want to remain in Chicago to play on garbage teams and waste the remaining years of their hockey potential. I sure would not. But, if they want to remain Hawks and go through the motions of playing like they really care about losing 2 out of every 3 nights, that is their prerogative. I think it is mandatory for Bowman in the team's interest to find places that each of those four would want to play and then work it out for them and the team. The experiment of keeping them around to regain quality is over. It has not worked and will not work. It is time to start over. The magic period is over and gone, so on to the next era. But, as you say, if they want to stick around and spend the next couple years being irrelevant and losing, it is their choice. As I said above, keeping them around to increase revenues is no longer viable with zero fans at games, so do the best for the team and get them landing spots they will enjoy and some good young players for the team. We're both somewhat assuming what we think they want, when only they know. They might want to be on a winner (and all they gotta do is waive), they might not want to play on a loser (and all they gotta do is waive). They might love Chicago more than anything, or, if they are approaching a respectable level of bastardry they might not equate Bowman the Beancounter as "Chicago Blackhawks" and might wan to make his job as difficult as they possibly can in the hope he gets shitcanned for failing--I know I would  . At this point though I'd like to think if they wanted out, they would have waived. So far they haven't. It makes me think that they don't want out (yet). Yeah, we the fans have to deal with lukewarm anal seepage on the ice in the interim, but as BigT and I were bantering about in the GDT...we've all suffered that before. |
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Post by hsbob on Jan 14, 2021 10:13:14 GMT -6
I dunno WTF is going on with Seabs either but then again I dunno WTF is going on with any team with Brandon F'n Pirri on it's roster. bob mckenzie said between periods that seabs "tweaked" his back on the first day of camp. idk why the team couldn't release the info. Smith seems to have the same convenient "tweak". |
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Post by Tater on Jan 14, 2021 13:46:26 GMT -6
bob mckenzie said between periods that seabs "tweaked" his back on the first day of camp. idk why the team couldn't release the info. I said the same thing to my wife after he said that. They couldn't even throw us a "upper body injury".
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Post by nighbor on Jan 15, 2021 6:12:42 GMT -6
bob mckenzie said between periods that seabs "tweaked" his back on the first day of camp. idk why the team couldn't release the info. I said the same thing to my wife after he said that. They couldn't even throw us a "upper body injury".
They were following directions of the league. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jan 15, 2021 6:27:20 GMT -6
I said the same thing to my wife after he said that. They couldn't even throw us a "upper body injury".
They were following directions of the league. still...it seems weird we hear it first from bob mckenzie in an intermission. Seabrook, who is currently listed with lower back injury, apparently tweaked his back during the early stages of training camp with the Blackhawks. The news initially dropped during the intermission of Chicago’s game last night from Bob McKenzie.something about this seems off but we'll see. blackhawkup.com/2021/01/14/chicago-blackhawks-move-players-around-injury-reserve/#:~:text=Seabrook%2C%20who%20is%20currently%20listed,last%20night%20from%20Bob%20McKenzie. |
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Post by vadarx on Feb 9, 2021 22:07:20 GMT -6
I've been pretty vocal about my lack of fondness for JC here. I'm still not a huge fan of his system, but by god he has these lads playing hard and it is nice to see.
I wish we had Jonny and Kirby right now.
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Post by Tater on Feb 10, 2021 1:16:08 GMT -6
I just wish it didn't take two years to change his "system". That man to man D was brutal.
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Post by BigT on Feb 10, 2021 8:16:00 GMT -6
I've been pretty vocal about my lack of fondness for JC here. I'm still not a huge fan of his system, but by god he has these lads playing hard and it is nice to see. I wish we had Jonny and Kirby right now. I’ll be the Debbie Downer again. He’s using the Swedish left wing lock to keep goals down. The Hawks are playing very defensive so the young dmen don’t get smashed up. I get it, I understand why he’s doing it. But I hope he opens them up a lot more here. This is very reminiscent of Barry Trotz type hockey. Boring as F***, but somewhat effective. It also rarely wins in today’s NHL. Teams like that scrape into the playoffs, then never really win much. Even if Toews and Dach come back this season, I doubt he shifts gears now. Hopefully going forward he keeps the defensive side tight, but also let’s them run with the best. Again, a young goalie, young dmen, it all adds up to a terrible end if you don’t tighten up the D. I’m very optimistic about some of the players here. Hopefully the two big centermen make this team that much better!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 16:21:29 GMT -6
I've been pretty vocal about my lack of fondness for JC here. I'm still not a huge fan of his system, but by god he has these lads playing hard and it is nice to see. I wish we had Jonny and Kirby right now. Never underestimate what playing to keep a spot on a NHL roster can do to drive people. All these kids are trying to prove they belong for a long career. They don't want to go back to the AHL. Also, never underestimate how winning changes guys either. Not saying that happened to the core of this team, just saying in general sometimes winning so big in a short time gives guys an inflated ego or they simply don't care to push as hard down the line in their careers. |
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Post by vadarx on Feb 10, 2021 16:42:30 GMT -6
I've been pretty vocal about my lack of fondness for JC here. I'm still not a huge fan of his system, but by god he has these lads playing hard and it is nice to see. I wish we had Jonny and Kirby right now. I’ll be the Debbie Downer again. He’s using the Swedish left wing lock to keep goals down. The Hawks are playing very defensive so the young dmen don’t get smashed up. I get it, I understand why he’s doing it. But I hope he opens them up a lot more here. This is very reminiscent of Barry Trotz type hockey. Boring as F***, but somewhat effective. It also rarely wins in today’s NHL. Teams like that scrape into the playoffs, then never really win much. Even if Toews and Dach come back this season, I doubt he shifts gears now. Hopefully going forward he keeps the defensive side tight, but also let’s them run with the best. Again, a young goalie, young dmen, it all adds up to a terrible end if you don’t tighten up the D. I’m very optimistic about some of the players here. Hopefully the two big centermen make this team that much better!!! iirc, JC was compared to Trotz (or the style of play his team's were known for), so I wouldn't count on it changing much. |
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Post by BigT on Feb 10, 2021 17:34:05 GMT -6
I’ll be the Debbie Downer again. He’s using the Swedish left wing lock to keep goals down. The Hawks are playing very defensive so the young dmen don’t get smashed up. I get it, I understand why he’s doing it. But I hope he opens them up a lot more here. This is very reminiscent of Barry Trotz type hockey. Boring as F***, but somewhat effective. It also rarely wins in today’s NHL. Teams like that scrape into the playoffs, then never really win much. Even if Toews and Dach come back this season, I doubt he shifts gears now. Hopefully going forward he keeps the defensive side tight, but also let’s them run with the best. Again, a young goalie, young dmen, it all adds up to a terrible end if you don’t tighten up the D. I’m very optimistic about some of the players here. Hopefully the two big centermen make this team that much better!!! iirc, JC was compared to Trotz (or the style of play his team's were known for), so I wouldn't count on it changing much. I’ll quote the great Stan Bowman.... “ We need to play an upbeat style to compete with all the best teams in this league”. “We’re looking at drafting more offensive type defensemen, it’s the way the game is going”. “We’re looking to get better every day, more skilled, and faster”. I don’t see that on total display when the Hawks wins are usually 2-1, 3-2 at best. I don’t see the Hawks making much noise in the post season with a smaller weaker roster that doesn’t really score much. The Hawks are still a -2 in goal differential. I doubt JC stops the defensive charade anytime soon!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Feb 11, 2021 8:13:26 GMT -6
I've been pretty vocal about my lack of fondness for JC here. I'm still not a huge fan of his system, but by god he has these lads playing hard and it is nice to see. I wish we had Jonny and Kirby right now. Never underestimate what playing to keep a spot on a NHL roster can do to drive people. All these kids are trying to prove they belong for a long career. They don't want to go back to the AHL. Also, never underestimate how winning changes guys either. Not saying that happened to the core of this team, just saying in general sometimes winning so big in a short time gives guys an inflated ego or they simply don't care to push as hard down the line in their careers. Are players with 800-1,000 regular season and 100 plus PO games on the odometer even physically able to "push as hard" as they did when they were 21 and trying to make the team? Do you believe the core's inflated egos cost the team more than the three cups they won? Do they win any without inflated egos? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 12:38:37 GMT -6
Never underestimate what playing to keep a spot on a NHL roster can do to drive people. All these kids are trying to prove they belong for a long career. They don't want to go back to the AHL. Also, never underestimate how winning changes guys either. Not saying that happened to the core of this team, just saying in general sometimes winning so big in a short time gives guys an inflated ego or they simply don't care to push as hard down the line in their careers. Are players with 800-1,000 regular season and 100 plus PO games on the odometer even physically able to "push as hard" as they did when they were 21 and trying to make the team? Do you believe the core's inflated egos cost the team more than the three cups they won? Do they win any without inflated egos? 1) maybe not, I often times think that Duncan Keith's huge fall off is due to his body just being totally unable to get to that level again... besides just naturally aging, the guy played a TON of hockey from 2009-16. Didn't Lidstrom once say every deep playoff run is an extra season on the body? Well they made 5 in that stretch and he played in 2 Olympics.... 2) I stated in the original post I don't think the core of this team had inflated egos but in sports it does happen... NBA/NFL there are guys notorious for this, they win and stop caring as much as they once did 3) Egos can do different things to a player, if you are saying that their egos in believing they were the best led them to go out there and win Cups then I can get behind that. I always heard Toews had a lot of Jordan-esque leadership qualities and Jordan was arguably the most egotistical athlete to ever play a sport |
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Post by nighbor on Feb 16, 2021 2:34:47 GMT -6
Are players with 800-1,000 regular season and 100 plus PO games on the odometer even physically able to "push as hard" as they did when they were 21 and trying to make the team? Do you believe the core's inflated egos cost the team more than the three cups they won? Do they win any without inflated egos? 1) maybe not, I often times think that Duncan Keith's huge fall off is due to his body just being totally unable to get to that level again... besides just naturally aging, the guy played a TON of hockey from 2009-16. Didn't Lidstrom once say every deep playoff run is an extra season on the body? Well they made 5 in that stretch and he played in 2 Olympics.... 2) I stated in the original post I don't think the core of this team had inflated egos but in sports it does happen... NBA/NFL there are guys notorious for this, they win and stop caring as much as they once did 3) Egos can do different things to a player, if you are saying that their egos in believing they were the best led them to go out there and win Cups then I can get behind that. I always heard Toews had a lot of Jordan-esque leadership qualities and Jordan was arguably the most egotistical athlete to ever play a sportIf the Captain has one he leaves it at the door of the United Center. He did not play his draft year as he wasn't sure he belonged in the NHL (no ego). During the 2007 WMHC he carried teammate Shane Doan's equipment bag up the stairs (no ego). He sacrifices goals to play a 200 foot game. He is the ultimate teammate. At the start of this season Toews had more shootout goals than anyone else in the entire NHL at 50. |
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Post by BigT on Feb 16, 2021 7:17:10 GMT -6
1) maybe not, I often times think that Duncan Keith's huge fall off is due to his body just being totally unable to get to that level again... besides just naturally aging, the guy played a TON of hockey from 2009-16. Didn't Lidstrom once say every deep playoff run is an extra season on the body? Well they made 5 in that stretch and he played in 2 Olympics.... 2) I stated in the original post I don't think the core of this team had inflated egos but in sports it does happen... NBA/NFL there are guys notorious for this, they win and stop caring as much as they once did 3) Egos can do different things to a player, if you are saying that their egos in believing they were the best led them to go out there and win Cups then I can get behind that. I always heard Toews had a lot of Jordan-esque leadership qualities and Jordan was arguably the most egotistical athlete to ever play a sportIf the Captain has one he leaves it at the door of the United Center. He did not play his draft year as he wasn't sure he belonged in the NHL (no ego). During the 2007 WMHC he carried teammate Shane Doan's equipment bag up the stairs (no ego). He sacrifices goals to play a 200 foot game. He is the ultimate teammate. At the start of this season Toews had more shootout goals than anyone else in the entire NHL at 50. I’d like to agree with you here, it’s just that every example you gave is from a very young Toews. I’d bet he does have an ego, and rightfully so. That doesn’t mean he’s not a good leader. If you’ve ever been in a dressing room with someone who’s a good captain, they’ll have an ego and it’s because it’s deserved and they’ve earned it. Rookies go through initiations, that’s all Toews was doing as a young man. And good for him, he paid his dues!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Feb 16, 2021 7:56:51 GMT -6
The actual definition of ego is some gibberish about consciousness and reflective thought so we can pretty much use that for ass wipe IMO......LOL!
In sports the word can mean different things to different people,it can refer to a self centered or selfish player,it can refer to a great but conceded player and it can also refer to a Prima Donna type who needs coddling and attention.......a pain in the ass in other words. I can put Jonathan Toews in neither of these categories. I'm not saying JT doesn't have an ego,I agree with those who say all great players do but his ego was a team centric-rather than an individual-centric mindset as far as I'm concerned. The guy's confidence and self assuredness never came across as cockiness and I never once heard him pump his own tires.
I believe the serious nature and drive to win are Toews' approach to the game and I believe they're sincere,I always thought he was a humble superstar.
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Post by Tater on Feb 16, 2021 11:33:54 GMT -6
The actual definition of ego is some gibberish about consciousness and reflective though so we can pretty much use that for ass wipe IMO......LOL! In sports the word can mean different things to different people,it can refer to a self centered or selfish player,it can refer to a great but conceded player and it can also refer to a Prima Donna type who needs coddling and attention.......a pain in the ass in other words. I can put Jonathan Toews in neither of these categories. I'm not saying JT doesn't have an ego,I agree with those who say all great players do but his ego was a team centric-rather than an individual-centric mindset as far as I'm concerned. The guy's confidence and self assuredness never came across as cockiness and I never once heard him pump his own tires. I believe the serious nature and drive to win are Toews' approach to the game and I believe they're sincere,I always thought he was a humble superstar. That's how I've always felt about him as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 13:33:06 GMT -6
1) maybe not, I often times think that Duncan Keith's huge fall off is due to his body just being totally unable to get to that level again... besides just naturally aging, the guy played a TON of hockey from 2009-16. Didn't Lidstrom once say every deep playoff run is an extra season on the body? Well they made 5 in that stretch and he played in 2 Olympics.... 2) I stated in the original post I don't think the core of this team had inflated egos but in sports it does happen... NBA/NFL there are guys notorious for this, they win and stop caring as much as they once did 3) Egos can do different things to a player, if you are saying that their egos in believing they were the best led them to go out there and win Cups then I can get behind that. I always heard Toews had a lot of Jordan-esque leadership qualities and Jordan was arguably the most egotistical athlete to ever play a sportIf the Captain has one he leaves it at the door of the United Center. He did not play his draft year as he wasn't sure he belonged in the NHL (no ego). During the 2007 WMHC he carried teammate Shane Doan's equipment bag up the stairs (no ego). He sacrifices goals to play a 200 foot game. He is the ultimate teammate. At the start of this season Toews had more shootout goals than anyone else in the entire NHL at 50. I agree. Never believe Toews' ego got in the way of anything or was a problem. or Keith's for that matter. Or Kane. No Blackhawks in my view |
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