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Post by T-man2010 on Oct 30, 2019 10:02:57 GMT -6
What do you guys see as the issues with PP and PK?
Too much standing around?
Too predictable?
Not able to enter the zone with speed?
Too much puck watching?
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xygfrie
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Post by xygfrie on Oct 30, 2019 14:31:42 GMT -6
Yes, all of the above. Any opposing team could be asleep and still kill the PP. It's really sad.
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Oct 30, 2019 19:40:35 GMT -6
What do you guys see as the issues with PP and PK?
Too much standing around?
Too predictable?
Not able to enter the zone with speed?
Too much puck watching? The PK is looking better but the PP is truly insane trying the same thing and expecting different results. Dach is here to stay so play him on the PP. Gus is terrible and he's even giving up scoring chances on the PP, de Haan, Maatta, Saad, or Kubalik should play RD on the first PP. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Oct 30, 2019 19:50:06 GMT -6
I like De Haan there since he can actually defend if needed.
Kane, Toews, Decat and Dach as 1st group?
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Oct 31, 2019 21:43:22 GMT -6
I like De Haan there since he can actually defend if needed. Kane, Toews, Decat and Dach as 1st group? I like those lines but with Boqvist being called up I'd play him on LD and Kubalik or Saad on RD, with Dach-Toews'Kane up front. Debrincat and Strome can play on the 2nd line and give each line 1min each, hopefully they don't use up the 2mins. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Oct 31, 2019 21:46:15 GMT -6
I like De Haan there since he can actually defend if needed. Kane, Toews, Decat and Dach as 1st group? I like those lines but with Boqvist being called up I'd play him on LD and Kubalik or Saad on RD, with Dach-Toews'Kane up front. Debrincat and Strome can play on the 2nd line and give each line 1min each, hopefully they don't use up the 2mins. Breaking up Kane and Dcat 1 timers will be tough. |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 2, 2019 10:04:23 GMT -6
Our last PP goal came on October 18th...….that's the deal!
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Post by hawkinmontreal on Nov 3, 2019 12:48:35 GMT -6
The PP is just to simple, very little puck movement, the guys aren’t moving there feet. I can’t believe they still try that cross crease pass.
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Post by hawkinmontreal on Nov 3, 2019 12:52:05 GMT -6
What do you guys see as the issues with PP and PK?
Too much standing around?
Too predictable?
Not able to enter the zone with speed?
Too much puck watching? The PK has been abysmal for a few years now, as much as the system they are being forced to exhibit is the issue, the players at some point need to move there ass and stop watching the other other team. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Nov 15, 2019 13:27:28 GMT -6
What do you guys see as the issues with PP and PK?
Too much standing around?
Too predictable?
Not able to enter the zone with speed?
Too much puck watching? Understatement for the PP. It's more like, "Welded into position." |
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Post by galaxytrash on Dec 4, 2019 6:51:29 GMT -6
pay me half the league minimum and i'll get whacked all night long like nelson here. i've never played a game in my life and i might be skating on my ankles the whole time but i'll do better than the hawks have done so far.
you want a PP better than 27th? park an idiot with a hockey stick in front of the net for starters.
the kane to cat one timer is long gone. our PP amounts to a lot of passing...we don't have a decent point shot so the puck invariably ends up on kane's stick...he look and looks, everyone's covered...so he holds it a second or 2 more then shoots. and lately it's stopped most every time.
btw....price got 2 minutes for the slash.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 8:02:11 GMT -6
Well it can't be because of Q and Kitchen. The Panthers are currently in the top 10 on both the PP and PK. So for all the years we would complain it's the systems they were using, it appears that it's the players who are failing. So not sure if it's a fixable solution.
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Post by nighbor on Dec 4, 2019 9:59:03 GMT -6
Well it can't be because of Q and Kitchen. The Panthers are currently in the top 10 on both the PP and PK. So for all the years we would complain it's the systems they were using, it appears that it's the players who are failing. So not sure if it's a fixable solution. Any system works if you have the players. It is up to the coaches to change systems to fit their players which Q and Kitchen failed to do. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Dec 4, 2019 10:09:23 GMT -6
Well it can't be because of Q and Kitchen. The Panthers are currently in the top 10 on both the PP and PK. So for all the years we would complain it's the systems they were using, it appears that it's the players who are failing. So not sure if it's a fixable solution. Not sure if you remember, but circa 2012 when the PP was failing epically (sense a theme here?) they trotted out a PP unit that was something like 1 FWD and the rest were D-men--guys like Montador. That kludged-together unit looked better than the stars at the time. I think it was due to the fact that the stars at the time were looking for the perfect pass, perfect shot and the like--trying to make it look pretty while the kludged unit just went out and executed. IMHO the solution is fixable--the guys who don't execute get pulled off the PP unit--irrespective of tenure, contract, team status, hardware, whether or not they wear a letter, etc. You know some of the young guys would relish PP time and if they perform, they're in. If the vets don't like it, there's a simple solution to them getting PP time again: Start executing. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 10:30:08 GMT -6
Well it can't be because of Q and Kitchen. The Panthers are currently in the top 10 on both the PP and PK. So for all the years we would complain it's the systems they were using, it appears that it's the players who are failing. So not sure if it's a fixable solution. Any system works if you have the players. It is up to the coaches to change systems to fit their players which Q and Kitchen failed to do. And yet same players in Chicago and supposedly new system with a new coach and same failures while Q and Kitchen are succeeding in Florida, likely using the same system they employed while in Chicago.
What that says to me is that their system wasn't the problem, while 2 different systems in Chicago continues to fail. So that's on the players, not the coaches.
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Post by hsbob on Dec 4, 2019 10:36:59 GMT -6
Well it can't be because of Q and Kitchen. The Panthers are currently in the top 10 on both the PP and PK. So for all the years we would complain it's the systems they were using, it appears that it's the players who are failing. So not sure if it's a fixable solution. To be fair,Q did inherit a very good PP from last year and his best players are in there mid 20's with basically NO playoff miles on the odometer. I'm no hockey expert but I do have decades of experience appraising trade-ins and I can tell you this,anyone expecting the same ride quality and performance from a 100K mile car that they get from a 20K mile car will be disappointed. With the exception of D-cat,are our low mileage rides Porsche's or Yugos? |
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Post by hsbob on Dec 4, 2019 10:41:22 GMT -6
Well it can't be because of Q and Kitchen. The Panthers are currently in the top 10 on both the PP and PK. So for all the years we would complain it's the systems they were using, it appears that it's the players who are failing. So not sure if it's a fixable solution. Any system works if you have the players. It is up to the coaches to change systems to fit their players which Q and Kitchen failed to do. If you consider Q and Kitchen failures,how do you rate the current staff? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 10:43:54 GMT -6
Well it can't be because of Q and Kitchen. The Panthers are currently in the top 10 on both the PP and PK. So for all the years we would complain it's the systems they were using, it appears that it's the players who are failing. So not sure if it's a fixable solution. To be fair,Q did inherit a very good PP from last year and his best players are in there mid 20's with basically NO playoff miles on the odometer. I'm no hockey expert but I do have decades of experience appraising trade-ins and I can tell you this,anyone expecting the same ride quality and performance from a 100K mile car that they get from a 20K mile car will be disappointed. With the exception of D-cat,are our low mileage rides Porsche's or Yugos? Isn't there an old saying: As yugo, we go?  |
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Post by hsbob on Dec 4, 2019 10:59:22 GMT -6
To be fair,Q did inherit a very good PP from last year and his best players are in there mid 20's with basically NO playoff miles on the odometer. I'm no hockey expert but I do have decades of experience appraising trade-ins and I can tell you this,anyone expecting the same ride quality and performance from a 100K mile car that they get from a 20K mile car will be disappointed. With the exception of D-cat,are our low mileage rides Porsche's or Yugos? Isn't there an old saying: As yugo, we go? Hey folks,stop in today and test drive the all new Yugo 'screwyourself'......a finer automobile you'll never find!LOL! Kane,Toews,D-Cat and Gus were all outstanding on the PP last year and all had career seasons but the league figured our PP out and there's no one on the staff that's figured THAT out? |
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Post by tincup on Dec 4, 2019 11:25:47 GMT -6
Well it can't be because of Q and Kitchen. The Panthers are currently in the top 10 on both the PP and PK. So for all the years we would complain it's the systems they were using, it appears that it's the players who are failing. So not sure if it's a fixable solution. To be fair,Q did inherit a very good PP from last year and his best players are in there mid 20's with basically NO playoff miles on the odometer. I'm no hockey expert but I do have decades of experience appraising trade-ins and I can tell you this,anyone expecting the same ride quality and performance from a 100K mile car that they get from a 20K mile car will be disappointed. With the exception of D-cat,are our low mileage rides Porsche's or Yugos? We need more Jeeps. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 11:29:59 GMT -6
To be fair,Q did inherit a very good PP from last year and his best players are in there mid 20's with basically NO playoff miles on the odometer. I'm no hockey expert but I do have decades of experience appraising trade-ins and I can tell you this,anyone expecting the same ride quality and performance from a 100K mile car that they get from a 20K mile car will be disappointed. With the exception of D-cat,are our low mileage rides Porsche's or Yugos? We need more Jeeps. Or Ford Pintos....the one's that if you hit it in the rear it catches fire! |
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Post by nighbor on Dec 4, 2019 15:40:29 GMT -6
Any system works if you have the players. It is up to the coaches to change systems to fit their players which Q and Kitchen failed to do. If you consider Q and Kitchen failures,how do you rate the current staff? Q and Kitchen had the advantage in Chicago of knowing the players and they implemented a winning system. When the players could no longer effectively win using this system they failed to adjust. This team at the start of the season is of a different make-up than last seasons. JC and his coaches entered the season with a game plan that proved ineffective. Instead of whipping a dead horse they began making adjustment trying to find a way as Q was famous for saying, to play the right way. |
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Post by hsbob on Dec 5, 2019 8:16:26 GMT -6
If you consider Q and Kitchen failures,how do you rate the current staff? Q and Kitchen had the advantage in Chicago of knowing the players and they implemented a winning system. When the players could no longer effectively win using this system they failed to adjust. This team at the start of the season is of a different make-up than last seasons. JC and his coaches entered the season with a game plan that proved ineffective. Instead of whipping a dead horse they began making adjustment trying to find a way as Q was famous for saying, to play the right way. It looks they whipped a very good power play into a dead horse this year. Say what you want about Q but he's been successful with every single team he's coached and the Hawks have had little to no success since he left......just facts. |
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Post by nighbor on Dec 5, 2019 15:11:51 GMT -6
Any system works if you have the players. It is up to the coaches to change systems to fit their players which Q and Kitchen failed to do. And yet same players in Chicago and supposedly new system with a new coach and same failures while Q and Kitchen are succeeding in Florida, likely using the same system they employed while in Chicago.
What that says to me is that their system wasn't the problem, while 2 different systems in Chicago continues to fail. So that's on the players, not the coaches.
We are in agreement. Our players failed Q's system because of age and lack of supporting cast not a lack of effort. Where we seem to differ is that I believed that it was up to Q and his coaching staff to change the system to one that worked. It is much easier to replace or change a system than to trade all the players.
Our players failed JC's system so many felt a need to change the system and rightly so. Still there were only a few including myself who felt that Q needed to change his system to reflect the team he had.
Florida is not Chicago as their key forwards and defense are younger and more capable of playing Q's old system if that is the one being used.
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Post by rinkrat21 on Dec 5, 2019 15:25:22 GMT -6
And yet same players in Chicago and supposedly new system with a new coach and same failures while Q and Kitchen are succeeding in Florida, likely using the same system they employed while in Chicago.
What that says to me is that their system wasn't the problem, while 2 different systems in Chicago continues to fail. So that's on the players, not the coaches.
We are in agreement. Our players failed Q's system because of age and lack of supporting cast not a lack of effort. Where we seem to differ is that I believed that it was up to Q and his coaching staff to change the system to one that worked. It is much easier to replace or change a system than to trade all the players.
Our players failed JC's system so many felt a need to change the system and rightly so. Still there were only a few including myself who felt that Q needed to change his system to reflect the team he had.
Florida is not Chicago as their key forwards and defense are younger and more capable of playing Q's old system if that is the one being used.
It might be true to change a system as opposed to trading a handful of players. But isn’t that exactly what SB did only AFTER Q was gone? How different is the roster now than the one Q iced for his last game? How many different players? If I am not mistaken, of the 18 skaters there are 11 new faces and only 7 remaining from Q’s last game. That is an extremely substantial turnover. Why would SB wait to make the amount of changes he did until after Q was gone? Q could have implemented any system on the planet and it wouldn’t have succeeded with the players he had to work with. It’s impossible to say what would be going on with the team right now if Q was still the coach. Or how much worse they could potentially be if JC had to coach the same lineup Q did. But to lay ANY of the blame at Q’s feet is barking up the wrong tree IMO. The front office is just a joke, no matter which way you want to look at it. |
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Post by nighbor on Dec 5, 2019 19:10:49 GMT -6
Q and Kitchen had the advantage in Chicago of knowing the players and they implemented a winning system. When the players could no longer effectively win using this system they failed to adjust. This team at the start of the season is of a different make-up than last seasons. JC and his coaches entered the season with a game plan that proved ineffective. Instead of whipping a dead horse they began making adjustment trying to find a way as Q was famous for saying, to play the right way. It looks they whipped a very good power play into a dead horse this year. Say what you want about Q but he's been successful with every single team he's coached and the Hawks have had little to no success since he left......just facts. Yes facts are facts if we like them or not. Q took over a power house team from Savard. Savard did the delicate work of navigating two teenager superstars Toews and Kane through the rigors of their first professional season and for that he was fired after only 4 games into his 2nd season as HC. The last seasons under Q were not very successful either. JC took over the team at the other end of the spectrum and deserves a decent amount of time to straighten things out. |
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Post by hsbob on Dec 6, 2019 8:57:50 GMT -6
It looks they whipped a very good power play into a dead horse this year. Say what you want about Q but he's been successful with every single team he's coached and the Hawks have had little to no success since he left......just facts. Yes facts are facts if we like them or not. Q took over a power house team from Savard. Savard did the delicate work of navigating two teenager superstars Toews and Kane through the rigors of their first professional season and for that he was fired after only 4 games into his 2nd season as HC. The last seasons under Q were not very successful either. JC took over the team at the other end of the spectrum and deserves a decent amount of time to straighten things out. Q did take over a young,talented team but great HC's don't take over bottom feeders. What should happen when a HC takes over such a young,talented team? How does a WCF appearance in his 1st year and a SC in his 2nd show anything but proper development and success? Q navigated his team through the rigors of three cups and sixteen PO series wins and for that he was fired fifteen games into a season too if I recall. The last two seasons under Q saw Forsling's,Rutta's and Manning's on defense and Forsberg,Berube,Glass and Ward in net...…..They've been replaced by Maata's,de Haan's and Lehner. BIG improvements.....no? Should getting swept by an eight seed have been the last straw for the three time cup winner? Should the greatest regular season team ever getting swept by a eight seed last year have been the last straw for a cup-less HC? What's a decent amount of time? |
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Post by nighbor on Dec 6, 2019 15:29:00 GMT -6
Yes facts are facts if we like them or not. Q took over a power house team from Savard. Savard did the delicate work of navigating two teenager superstars Toews and Kane through the rigors of their first professional season and for that he was fired after only 4 games into his 2nd season as HC. The last seasons under Q were not very successful either. JC took over the team at the other end of the spectrum and deserves a decent amount of time to straighten things out. Q did take over a young,talented team but great HC's don't take over bottom feeders. What should happen when a HC takes over such a young,talented team? How does a WCF appearance in his 1st year and a SC in his 2nd show anything but proper development and success? Q navigated his team through the rigors of three cups and sixteen PO series wins and for that he was fired fifteen games into a season too if I recall. The last two seasons under Q saw Forsling's,Rutta's and Manning's on defense and Forsberg,Berube,Glass and Ward in net...…..They've been replaced by Maata's,de Haan's and Lehner. BIG improvements.....no? Should getting swept by an eight seed have been the last straw for the three time cup winner? Should the greatest regular season team ever getting swept by a eight seed last year have been the last straw for a cup-less HC? What's a decent amount of time? Although it helped it did not take a great HC to win with that amount of talent. The players had an attitude of refusing to lose which set the team apart from others. I would consider the end of his first full season to be a decent amount of time especially with the amount of turn over. |
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Post by hsbob on Dec 7, 2019 8:06:19 GMT -6
Q did take over a young,talented team but great HC's don't take over bottom feeders. What should happen when a HC takes over such a young,talented team? How does a WCF appearance in his 1st year and a SC in his 2nd show anything but proper development and success? Q navigated his team through the rigors of three cups and sixteen PO series wins and for that he was fired fifteen games into a season too if I recall. The last two seasons under Q saw Forsling's,Rutta's and Manning's on defense and Forsberg,Berube,Glass and Ward in net...…..They've been replaced by Maata's,de Haan's and Lehner. BIG improvements.....no? Should getting swept by an eight seed have been the last straw for the three time cup winner? Should the greatest regular season team ever getting swept by a eight seed last year have been the last straw for a cup-less HC? What's a decent amount of time? Although it helped it did not take a great HC to win with that amount of talent. The players had an attitude of refusing to lose which set the team apart from others. I would consider the end of his first full season to be a decent amount of time especially with the amount of turn over. You saying they coulda won those cups without Q would be like me saying they couldn't have won em without Q...….neither claim is provable. Just look at a TB team that's just as talented as any Hawk team,swept in the first round and never won annythig,Cooper had one shot but Q put him in his back pocket like a dirty snot rag! |
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 1, 2020 7:46:42 GMT -6
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