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Post by hsbob on Jul 23, 2021 8:16:46 GMT -6
When I was working as a guidance counselor in a school in North Dakota, our principal once told me something I still remember to this day. He said, "If you or I were to be out of school in bad weather (like extreme cold or blizzards), the school could continue to operate. If Al (the head custodian) was out, the school may not be able to be open." That might have been a stretch, but the principal was wise enough to know the importance of each worker at the school of which he was in charge.
A real team, to be successful, needs to have all members (on or off the ice) pulling in the same direction and willing to do their share for the good of the team, and not be concerned with who may get the credit for the successes.
I think I totally hear what you're saying. Your principal is surely a wise man and a good man for recognizing the importance of somebody some may not realize as to his importance. I think that's truly great. My point however is more in terms of what schools are expected to do i.e. provide an excellent education for everyone. You can make good arguments for the custodian's connection to that and I'm with you. However, that custodian's direct connection to test scores simply cannot be on the same plane as that of the principal. To take that further in our minds, consider whom would be the first to send down the road if test scores began to suck. Hint, it wouldn't be the custodian. I understand all aspects of this and there's no bigger supporter of the rank and file then me but no organization with poor leadership will ever succeed.......at anything. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 23, 2021 8:33:59 GMT -6
I agree. You’re only as good as your management. Directions come from the top down. Not the other way. When the tops directions are clouded and inexperienced. The whole team suffers.
Also. What management team doesn’t talk to its “boots on the ground” to find out more info? It’s just information, why wouldn’t a guy take it? Every GM talks to their team and gets to know them. They also have meetings with the leadership group and the coaching staff to see if everyone is on the same page. According to the leadership group in Chicago. That doesn’t happen. Scam Bowman even said so. He said “they’re paid to play hockey, not worry about the roster”. That’s backward thinking. He’s just a control freak and needs total control!!!
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Post by hsbob on Jul 23, 2021 9:12:50 GMT -6
Playing Devil's advocate: Was he in charge? Did he make any of the selections prior to taking over for Tallon? He played a part in the team's success, but what part was it Was he the guy scouting and evaluating talent, or was it in the cap/accounting side and tendering QO's? He was indeed a part of a team, but which part? I don't believe he singlehandedly scouted/drafted any/all of the core players. That was Tallon/Smith. That also wasn't his job at the time. Once he took over he had a team built and, in my opinion, did a good job keeping that team together and filling in missing pieces to dominate the league in the early 2010's. But now that the core has aged he has to build a team on his own, and that is completely different skillset, and right now he's not doing well at it. His only major hits in the draft have been Saad, T², and Debrincat...and only Debrincat remains. Of Panarin (who is one hell of a diamond in the rough and Stan and his scouts deserve credit for finding him out of nowhere), all we have to show for him now is Zadorov. Contrast that to Smith/Tallon who took freaking Karpo and parlayed the pick into Hjalmarsson, or Ellison for Sharp, or Bochenski for Versteeg. The way I see Stan is that he's the type of GM that works the best on established teams with a solid core already in place and helps them get the most out of every cap dollar. Not a builder/architect type. If Stan was as smart as he likes to think he is, he'd understand that and fill the roles around him with actual hockey guys who can evaluate talent and build solid teams, but that's Stan's fatal flaw: He does appear to have to be the smartest guy in the room and wants to do all of that himself. Right now we're paying for it--not so much from contracts like Toews, Kane, and Seabrook's, but from all of the one-off deals that have came and went that are stopping a proper rebuild: The Maata's, the DeHaan's, the acquiring Lehner and then letting him go for Malcom Subban. I think Stan's value to the 'hawks passed the minute the core became completely incapable of winning another cup. IMHO that was the close of the 2018 season. The number of players discovered by GM’s is miniscule as most were never scouts or not for very long. As head of hockey operations Stan evaluated talent. Big T who was never in the room claimed Stan was not a good talent evaluator but Rick Dudley a person in the room claimed Stan was a good evaluator. I will go with the man in the room every time. Prior to Stan taking charge he prepared budgets, evaluated talent, negotiated contacts and as AGM he sent out the QO’s but the GM decided who to qualify Smith/Pulford/Talon did not singlehandedly scout/draft any/all of the core players either. They relied on the information provided and stored by their staff including Stan. Talon drafted Toews but Toews was discovered three years earlier when Smith was boss. Who should be credited for drafting Toews? Smith, Pulford Talon or the scout who first found him? The previous championship team had three architects and a subcontractor so it will be hard but achievable. It took 49 years between cups so a handful of years without a cup is acceptable because every team goes through it. I still believe one cup can be won in the next three or four years. The European scouting staff also found Jan Rutta and Michal Kempny. They were not good enough to play for Q but good enough to play for champions Tampa Bay and Washington. Such European finds as Panarin are free agents and can be signed by anyone. Stan’s negotiating skills is what landed him. Panarin priced himself out of Chicago. Signed for 11M by the Rangers and he could not even lead them out of the Qualifying round. Andrew Shaw went undrafted until the fifth round in his third and final year of eligibility. Stan traded Shaw to Montreal for a 2nd round pick which became Debrincat. Kubalik was had for a 5th round pick. Lately we have been blessed with better draft positioning which has resulted in access to a more talented pool of players. "They were not good enough to play for Q"........let's look at that Statement Rutta AND Forsling saw big minutes as a pair to start the '17-18' season,both played well for the first 4-6 weeks before seeing their play tail off by nearly all accounts which resulted in a drop in ice time and starts. Jan Rutta saw 57 starts in 17-18 and 80 starts over two seasons here.........under Q Michal Kempny saw 50 starts in 16-17 and 81 over two seasons here..........under Q And Gustav Forsling saw 122 starts over three seasons here and Q got him in the lineup @ 20 back in '16-17 and Q has resurrected his career quite nicely in Florida @25 after the Canes found NO use for him what so ever. www.nhl.com/panthers/news/forsling-on-panthers-it-looks-very-bright-for-us/c-325705936I listed the large amount of rookies Q played over his last few seasons here a few years back(I believe it to be well into the 20's)but he played rookies and youngsters his entire tenure here..... Hammer @20,Shaw @20,Saad @20,Kruger @20,TT @20........all SB picks who immedietely got their shot and Q won cups with these kids playing big roles. There were MANY more to follow like...... Schmaltz @20,D-Cat @19,he turned 20 three months into his rookie season,Hartman @21,Motte @21,VH @22......and I'm sure I'm missin' a few....OH Jokiharju @19. Joel Quenneville has a long and established history of playing and developing good young players and he's doing it again in Florida........myth .....debunked!!!!! |
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Post by BigT on Jul 23, 2021 10:05:15 GMT -6
According to Elliott Friedman, the Hawks/BJs deal is gonna be a 1st, 2nd, and two prospects. My speculation is they’ll want a Dman back and it’s probably gonna be Mitchell or Beaudin. Plus a forward prospect. Probably someone like Altybarmakyan or Teply. I’m ok losing kids from 4 drafts ago. If that is incase the deal. I’d be ok with it. But I’d prefer not to give up the 2nd rounder. This teams cupboards are bare, we need a lot of kids that can contribute here at some point!!!
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 23, 2021 10:27:55 GMT -6
According to Elliott Friedman, the Hawks/BJs deal is gonna be a 1st, 2nd, and two prospects. My speculation is they’ll want a Dman back and it’s probably gonna be Mitchell or Beaudin. Plus a forward prospect. Probably someone like Altybarmakyan or Teply. I’m ok losing kids from 4 drafts ago. If that is incase the deal. I’d be ok with it. But I’d prefer not to give up the 2nd rounder. This teams cupboards are bare, we need a lot of kids that can contribute here at some point!!! Hopefully next years first and it's a lower first rounder. |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Jul 23, 2021 10:38:22 GMT -6
According to Elliott Friedman, the Hawks/BJs deal is gonna be a 1st, 2nd, and two prospects. My speculation is they’ll want a Dman back and it’s probably gonna be Mitchell or Beaudin. Plus a forward prospect. Probably someone like Altybarmakyan or Teply. I’m ok losing kids from 4 drafts ago. If that is incase the deal. I’d be ok with it. But I’d prefer not to give up the 2nd rounder. This teams cupboards are bare, we need a lot of kids that can contribute here at some point!!! Dang I like this hoping not Teply like him alot, next years first rounder would be better, extension has to be figured out. I know some say tank but tanking is not an option with the off ice stuff and the fact they are gonna have some real problems putting people in the seats they could go to irrelevant in this city fast. |
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 23, 2021 10:45:29 GMT -6
According to Elliott Friedman, the Hawks/BJs deal is gonna be a 1st, 2nd, and two prospects. My speculation is they’ll want a Dman back and it’s probably gonna be Mitchell or Beaudin. Plus a forward prospect. Probably someone like Altybarmakyan or Teply. I’m ok losing kids from 4 drafts ago. If that is incase the deal. I’d be ok with it. But I’d prefer not to give up the 2nd rounder. This teams cupboards are bare, we need a lot of kids that can contribute here at some point!!! ^ im with you on the bolded i thought CBJ wasnt looking for picks and want NHL players? I thought it could be Kubalik + one of (Mitchell, Beaudin, Boqvist) as a start - no more Dach or Dcat. also, still no word if Jones will sign long term. But i guess this is moot if they can flip him at TDL |
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puckjim
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Post by puckjim on Jul 23, 2021 12:26:26 GMT -6
According to Elliott Friedman, the Hawks/BJs deal is gonna be a 1st, 2nd, and two prospects. My speculation is they’ll want a Dman back and it’s probably gonna be Mitchell or Beaudin. Plus a forward prospect. Probably someone like Altybarmakyan or Teply. I’m ok losing kids from 4 drafts ago. If that is incase the deal. I’d be ok with it. But I’d prefer not to give up the 2nd rounder. This teams cupboards are bare, we need a lot of kids that can contribute here at some point!!! ^ im with you on the bolded i thought CBJ wasnt looking for picks and want NHL players? I thought it could be Kubalik + one of (Mitchell, Beaudin, Boqvist) as a start - no more Dach or Dcat. also, still no word if Jones will sign long term. But i guess this is moot if they can flip him at TDL Guessing that the Jackets might be handcuffed by Jones's alleged desire to play for for the Blackhawks. Kinda wish they'd just give the kids time to develop, but with a scandal hanging over the team's head, they really cannot also be really shitty. |
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 23, 2021 13:00:10 GMT -6
^ im with you on the bolded i thought CBJ wasnt looking for picks and want NHL players? I thought it could be Kubalik + one of (Mitchell, Beaudin, Boqvist) as a start - no more Dach or Dcat. also, still no word if Jones will sign long term. But i guess this is moot if they can flip him at TDL Guessing that the Jackets might be handcuffed by Jones's alleged desire to play for for the Blackhawks. Kinda wish they'd just give the kids time to develop, but with a scandal hanging over the team's head, they really cannot also be really shitty. ^^ |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 23, 2021 13:21:12 GMT -6
^ im with you on the bolded i thought CBJ wasnt looking for picks and want NHL players? I thought it could be Kubalik + one of (Mitchell, Beaudin, Boqvist) as a start - no more Dach or Dcat. also, still no word if Jones will sign long term. But i guess this is moot if they can flip him at TDL Guessing that the Jackets might be handcuffed by Jones's alleged desire to play for for the Blackhawks. Kinda wish they'd just give the kids time to develop, but with a scandal hanging over the team's head, they really cannot also be really shitty. I'm all for giving the kids time to develop but it's not everyday you get a chance to get a big right handed top2 dman in his prime. Kubalik would be tough to give up though, he's got a shot like Panarin but he's bigger, hits, plays with an edge and oh yeah, he can play a 2way game. Hopefully they're more interested in a center like Strome. |
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Post by tincup on Jul 23, 2021 13:52:04 GMT -6
According to Elliott Friedman, the Hawks/BJs deal is gonna be a 1st, 2nd, and two prospects. My speculation is they’ll want a Dman back and it’s probably gonna be Mitchell or Beaudin. Plus a forward prospect. Probably someone like Altybarmakyan or Teply. I’m ok losing kids from 4 drafts ago. If that is incase the deal. I’d be ok with it. But I’d prefer not to give up the 2nd rounder. This teams cupboards are bare, we need a lot of kids that can contribute here at some point!!! I don’t want this to happen. I’m tired of holding onto the hope that there’s one more run to be had. I’m for the rebuild and that means picks, prospects and time. JMO. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 23, 2021 14:19:36 GMT -6
According to Elliott Friedman, the Hawks/BJs deal is gonna be a 1st, 2nd, and two prospects. My speculation is they’ll want a Dman back and it’s probably gonna be Mitchell or Beaudin. Plus a forward prospect. Probably someone like Altybarmakyan or Teply. I’m ok losing kids from 4 drafts ago. If that is incase the deal. I’d be ok with it. But I’d prefer not to give up the 2nd rounder. This teams cupboards are bare, we need a lot of kids that can contribute here at some point!!! I don’t want this to happen. I’m tired of holding onto the hope that there’s one more run to be had. I’m for the rebuild and that means picks, prospects and time. JMO. Scam Bowman said last summer on his media tour that this was basically the plan. He said they didn’t have enough good players and they were going to get them. He also said he doesn’t believe in full rebuilds as that takes 7-8 years. He said that isn’t happening under his watch. So the full rebuild most were dreaming of was never an option. Scam did anted to scam the good people out of more money as he gives just a glimmer of hope. But if anyone thinks the Hawks are a Seth Jones away from contending. I don’t know what to say anymore. The bottom 6 is meh. And the defense needs a complete enema. DeHaan and Murphy would be an excellent 3rd tandem. But that tandem also costs over 8 million bucks. We need another solid vet to go on the 2nd pairing with Beaudin. Throw out Stillman with S Jones!!! |
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Post by BigT on Jul 23, 2021 14:27:43 GMT -6
Whether we like it or not, it’s starting to sound like Jones will be a Hawk. Flyers we’re in on him and they opted for the cheaper route for Ristolainen. They gave up a first, and a prospect for him. So we have to think the asking price is higher for Jones as they walked away. Dallas is said to have interest, but I just don’t buy that. They have Heiskanen and Klingberg there, no need for another high priced Dman.
So that leads the Seth Jones trade directly to the Hawks. I think a deal will get done before the Hawks pick tonight. If the Hawks pick, then I don’t know what they’d give up for him!!!
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Post by tincup on Jul 23, 2021 14:33:43 GMT -6
I don’t want this to happen. I’m tired of holding onto the hope that there’s one more run to be had. I’m for the rebuild and that means picks, prospects and time. JMO. Scam Bowman said last summer on his media tour that this was basically the plan. He said they didn’t have enough good players and they were going to get them. He also said he doesn’t believe in full rebuilds as that takes 7-8 years. He said that isn’t happening under his watch. So the full rebuild most were dreaming of was never an option. Scam did anted to scam the good people out of more money as he gives just a glimmer of hope. But if anyone thinks the Hawks are a Seth Jones away from contending. I don’t know what to say anymore. The bottom 6 is meh. And the defense needs a complete enema. DeHaan and Murphy would be an excellent 3rd tandem. But that tandem also costs over 8 million bucks. We need another solid vet to go on the 2nd pairing with Beaudin. Throw out Stillman with S Jones!!! Give the man his pension for chrisakes. The slow deconstruct is taking longer. Jones isn’t taking us over the top. Philly just got Risto for slightly less, and Jones has his flaws just like him. It’s not like we’re trading for Pronger or Lidstrom here. How much worse was Columbus than us last year and yet if the Hawks give them tonight’s first I’ll be watching the Jackets pick four times in the round. Be wonderful to see our team do that. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 23, 2021 14:43:40 GMT -6
The Hawks played the most rookies last season and went with 3 goalies in their mid 20's, it gave them a good idea how they've progressed and now they have a lot of cap room to add pieces they need.
Seth will definitely be an upgrade on D and who knows, maybe his brother has a breakout year.
Getting a big top 6 forward and a more experienced backup to Lankinen should be next. Plus trying to move de Haan and maybe get a bigger younger top4 dman.
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 23, 2021 14:59:30 GMT -6
Whether we like it or not, it’s starting to sound like Jones will be a Hawk. Flyers we’re in on him and they opted for the cheaper route for Ristolainen. They gave up a first, and a prospect for him. So we have to think the asking price is higher for Jones as they walked away. Dallas is said to have interest, but I just don’t buy that. They have Heiskanen and Klingberg there, no need for another high priced Dman. So that leads the Seth Jones trade directly to the Hawks. I think a deal will get done before the Hawks pick tonight. If the Hawks pick, then I don’t know what they’d give up for him!!! hopefully the whole "Seth just want to go to Chicago" lower down the price for a trade. Risto cost a 1st, a 2nd and a player. Did Risto have NMC of some sort? I'm thinking Buf grabbed the best offer for him. (im using the word "hopeful" a whole lot with these trades) |
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Post by acesandeights on Jul 23, 2021 16:39:18 GMT -6
According to Elliott Friedman, the Hawks/BJs deal is gonna be a 1st, 2nd, and two prospects. My speculation is they’ll want a Dman back and it’s probably gonna be Mitchell or Beaudin. Plus a forward prospect. Probably someone like Altybarmakyan or Teply. I’m ok losing kids from 4 drafts ago. If that is incase the deal. I’d be ok with it. But I’d prefer not to give up the 2nd rounder. This teams cupboards are bare, we need a lot of kids that can contribute here at some point!!! Hopefully next years first and it's a lower first rounder. I agree; if they have to give up a first rounder, make it next year's first rounder which will hopefully be lower than 11. Don't the Jackets have 3 first rd. picks already? Do they really need four first round picks in the same draft? The way I look at it: The system is lacking young potential top 6 F prospects. We have Reichel, who just turned 19 a couple of months ago, coming over this year to continue his development over here. Plus at 11, the Hawks should get a good F prospect so they need to keep the pick. Then, in 2-3 years down the road, there should be two young, potential top 6 F's to add upfront, hopefully. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 23, 2021 16:42:19 GMT -6
According to Elliott Friedman, the Hawks/BJs deal is gonna be a 1st, 2nd, and two prospects. My speculation is they’ll want a Dman back and it’s probably gonna be Mitchell or Beaudin. Plus a forward prospect. Probably someone like Altybarmakyan or Teply. I’m ok losing kids from 4 drafts ago. If that is incase the deal. I’d be ok with it. But I’d prefer not to give up the 2nd rounder. This teams cupboards are bare, we need a lot of kids that can contribute here at some point!!! hard pass. giving up a first next year that will almost surely be another lotto selection is fucking dumb and completely goes against the idea that we are rebuilding. not to mention taking us out of the Wright sweepstakes. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 23, 2021 16:47:03 GMT -6
Whether we like it or not, it’s starting to sound like Jones will be a Hawk. Flyers we’re in on him and they opted for the cheaper route for Ristolainen. They gave up a first, and a prospect for him. So we have to think the asking price is higher for Jones as they walked away. Dallas is said to have interest, but I just don’t buy that. They have Heiskanen and Klingberg there, no need for another high priced Dman. So that leads the Seth Jones trade directly to the Hawks. I think a deal will get done before the Hawks pick tonight. If the Hawks pick, then I don’t know what they’d give up for him!!! they aren't going to trade tonight's pick for him, they are going to trade next year's pick for him. if they do that, they better make it lotto protected. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 23, 2021 16:49:25 GMT -6
The Hawks played the most rookies last season and went with 3 goalies in their mid 20's, it gave them a good idea how they've progressed and now they have a lot of cap room to add pieces they need. Seth will definitely be an upgrade on D and who knows, maybe his brother has a breakout year. Getting a big top 6 forward and a more experienced backup to Lankinen should be next. Plus trying to move de Haan and maybe get a bigger younger top4 dman. they can go get Jones and Hamilton and the d will still be shit next year. that won't change until we are running a system that works in the NHL. giving up the future so we can maybbeeee make the playoffs as a lower seed one more time is reason enough to send Bowman out on his ass right now as far as I am concerned. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 23, 2021 16:51:00 GMT -6
According to Elliott Friedman, the Hawks/BJs deal is gonna be a 1st, 2nd, and two prospects. My speculation is they’ll want a Dman back and it’s probably gonna be Mitchell or Beaudin. Plus a forward prospect. Probably someone like Altybarmakyan or Teply. I’m ok losing kids from 4 drafts ago. If that is incase the deal. I’d be ok with it. But I’d prefer not to give up the 2nd rounder. This teams cupboards are bare, we need a lot of kids that can contribute here at some point!!! Dang I like this hoping not Teply like him alot, next years first rounder would be better, extension has to be figured out. I know some say tank but tanking is not an option with the off ice stuff and the fact they are gonna have some real problems putting people in the seats they could go to irrelevant in this city fast. if they built another winner, the place would be packed. they either take their lumps now or they'll be half assing it for another decade. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 23, 2021 16:53:48 GMT -6
Hopefully next years first and it's a lower first rounder. I agree; if they have to give up a first rounder, make it next year's first rounder which will hopefully be lower than 11. Don't the Jackets have 3 first rd. picks already? Do they really need four first round picks in the same draft? The way I look at it: The system is lacking young potential top 6 F prospects. We have Reichel, who just turned 19 a couple of months ago, coming over this year to continue his development over here. Plus at 11, the Hawks should get a good F prospect so they need to keep the pick. Then, in 2-3 years down the road, there should be two young, potential top 6 F's to add upfront, hopefully. That's why I'd pass if they want the #11 pick, LA said they're willing to trade #8, I'd trade up and take Mctavish if San Jose passes on him at #7. But if they keep 11 there'll be some good forwards left. Take a center, bonus Reichel played a lot of center last season but with his skating and playmaking abilities he should be on the wing. With Toews coming back, Dach hopefully not injured before the season...again, and with sounds like more depth on D, I don't think they'll be picking near the top10 next year, so trade it for a top2 dman. Or maybe Boqvist being a former #8 will be the "1st". |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 23, 2021 16:55:56 GMT -6
trade is done
what we gave up coming shortly
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Post by bigbarn27 on Jul 23, 2021 16:56:13 GMT -6
Deal done sources at ESPN say no details.
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Post by bigbarn27 on Jul 23, 2021 16:59:21 GMT -6
Dang I like this hoping not Teply like him alot, next years first rounder would be better, extension has to be figured out. I know some say tank but tanking is not an option with the off ice stuff and the fact they are gonna have some real problems putting people in the seats they could go to irrelevant in this city fast. if they built another winner, the place would be packed. they either take their lumps now or they'll be half assing it for another decade. I hear ya but they are not the Cubs half full building for the next 3 years wont get it done for them. Its a scary time most have already gone 2 years without going to game |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Jul 23, 2021 16:59:36 GMT -6
7 year ext.
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 23, 2021 16:59:39 GMT -6
Just saw the trade and it sounds like Boqvist is involved 🤗
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Post by vadarx on Jul 23, 2021 17:03:53 GMT -6
jfc
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Post by vadarx on Jul 23, 2021 17:05:02 GMT -6
9.5 per for 8 years (supposedly).
can't wait to read the complaining here about that contract in a few years when we are still trying to rebuild and his play has declined...
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 23, 2021 17:05:47 GMT -6
Heard he's signed for 9.5 X 7yrs, I would've offered 7-8 with that many years.
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