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Post by Tater on May 18, 2021 0:35:09 GMT -6
Can we just give them Boqvist, no questions asked?
Asking for a friend.
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Post by BigT on May 18, 2021 5:19:19 GMT -6
I know Bowman doesn’t have a good trade bone in his body. But honest question. I heard a rumour. Well 2 of them. Would anyone here do this? Hawks receive Eichel, Reinhart. Buffalo gets Dach, Suter, 1st round pick and a player to help even out the salary. Like Connolly. But I didn’t hear his name specifically. Also I heard 2 times today that Calgary was looking too. They’re willing to give up Tkachuk, 1st rounder, and Connor Zary. The Kings are rumoured to be willing to trade Byfield, and a few others for him. I guess if the Hawks top few players say they want better players brought in, they may just have to do it. Cuz they may not waive and keep the Hawks in no mans land for a few more years. Don’t shoot the messenger. But Dach and Couzens are pretty good buddies and it looks like the Sabres are ready to hand the keys over to their other kids!!! how would the 'hawks afford this if Toews is back next year? Eichel runs 10 mill per and Reinhart will want a raise this summer (he is a rfa) from his 5.2 mill per deal. so we take in probably at least 16-17 million per and give back...? Dach is on his rookie deal and Suter is a rfa. Buffalo would have to take Seabrook and Connolly back, minimum. I just don’t see that trade working out. how about this instead: the 'hawks give up the same 4 and get back Eichel and a 2nd rounder. honestly, considering how badly we know he wants outta Buffalo, I'd say you give them Dach, Suter, Connolly, and a second for Eichel. add in a d prospect if ya have to (cough, Boqvist, cough). I'd make that trade. Right now, I just heard that the Hawks are “looking into the possibility”. I doubt they do it. Reinhart may not be part of the deal. I just heard that LA and Calgary are teams that are looking for the both. And Buffalo probably gets more if they trade em separately. Again, not my rumour. Just heard that yesterday. Also, Stan would love to “take advantage” of a team in cap hell. But unfortunately, with the expansion draft, I doubt he gets that opportunity as the Kraken will probably take advantage first. This is why Stan is looking for guys that are 23-25. He’s hoping they’re developed and can step in and make an impact while the Duo are still here. But as we’ve seen, there’s just too much turnover and I doubt he gets that to work with what he’s got. He’s got all failed former first rounders. But, Eichel does fit the mix. And maybe they do take back Seabs contract? Again. It sounds like what Stan is looking for. So we’ll have to wait and see where the lotto balls drop, and go from there!!! |
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Post by BigT on May 18, 2021 6:22:31 GMT -6
One thing I want to keep touching on. Does anyone right now still believe in the cliche that last years playoff was really good for the Hawks? Honestly. Most Hawks fans used the cliche “it’s a great learning experience for them”. But was it? What did they learn? How to finish almost last? The kids did absolutely nothing in last years playoffs. Even Kubalik had one good game vs the Oilers. And none of them really did much vs the VGK. Toews was the guy that did almost everything for the Hawks. It wasn’t a learning experience, I think it was actually detrimental. Getting dissected is never good for a kids confidence. Plus, Stan went and ripped apart the roster and added like 7-8 newer players from last year. It meant nothing.
Theo my reason I’m bringing this up is simply because a team needs to keep its eye on the real prize. If rebuilding was the goal, last years “gimme” was unnecessary. A top ten pick would have helped more. This is why Stan Bowman is all over the board, he switches his plan Avery half season and abandons what he was doing. Then you end up with a mishmash of lunacy like we have now. History is the best teacher. Stan and his “Great Communicator” are not!!!
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Post by hsbob on May 18, 2021 7:54:35 GMT -6
One thing I want to keep touching on. Does anyone right now still believe in the cliche that last years playoff was really good for the Hawks? Honestly. Most Hawks fans used the cliche “it’s a great learning experience for them”. But was it? What did they learn? How to finish almost last? The kids did absolutely nothing in last years playoffs. Even Kubalik had one good game vs the Oilers. And none of them really did much vs the VGK. Toews was the guy that did almost everything for the Hawks. It wasn’t a learning experience, I think it was actually detrimental. Getting dissected is never good for a kids confidence. Plus, Stan went and ripped apart the roster and added like 7-8 newer players from last year. It meant nothing. Theo my reason I’m bringing this up is simply because a team needs to keep its eye on the real prize. If rebuilding was the goal, last years “gimme” was unnecessary. A top ten pick would have helped more. This is why Stan Bowman is all over the board, he switches his plan Avery half season and abandons what he was doing. Then you end up with a mishmash of lunacy like we have now. History is the best teacher. Stan and his “Great Communicator” are not!!! Lot to digest in your last few posts T and some interesting thoughts and suggestions. Eichel skating 2LC with a healthy JT to help mentor and Kane on his wing could be interesting,that puts Kubalik back with JT and what would D-Cat do on either of those lines? Seriously? Does Eichel thrive in this situation? He's had little mentoring,most of the vets Buffalo brought in like Skinner shit the bed,a few HC's,a few GM's and a few 'new directions' already @24. He was on a path of constant improvement regardless coming into this year and coming off his best season ever the year before........the other assets involved in this trade would have to work out in our favor and really.......what's the chance of that? This all comes down to where the FO sees the team right now,we'd still have an inept,disorganized defense and young,mediocre goaltending after the trade. What effect would two more lottery type seasons have on D-Cat at that point......he seems like a happy/loyal kid but who knows. Imagine this kid on a line with a top center and a big,rugged off wing...........that certainly WASN'T the case this year! |
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Post by jacksalmon on May 18, 2021 9:41:04 GMT -6
One thing I want to keep touching on. Does anyone right now still believe in the cliche that last years playoff was really good for the Hawks? Honestly. Most Hawks fans used the cliche “it’s a great learning experience for them”. But was it? What did they learn? How to finish almost last? The kids did absolutely nothing in last years playoffs. Even Kubalik had one good game vs the Oilers. And none of them really did much vs the VGK. Toews was the guy that did almost everything for the Hawks. It wasn’t a learning experience, I think it was actually detrimental. Getting dissected is never good for a kids confidence. Plus, Stan went and ripped apart the roster and added like 7-8 newer players from last year. It meant nothing. Theo my reason I’m bringing this up is simply because a team needs to keep its eye on the real prize. If rebuilding was the goal, last years “gimme” was unnecessary. A top ten pick would have helped more. This is why Stan Bowman is all over the board, he switches his plan Avery half season and abandons what he was doing. Then you end up with a mishmash of lunacy like we have now. History is the best teacher. Stan and his “Great Communicator” are not!!! Lot to digest in your last few posts T and some interesting thoughts and suggestions. Eichel skating 2LC with a healthy JT to help mentor and Kane on his wing could be interesting,that puts Kubalik back with JT and what would D-Cat do on either of those lines? Seriously? Does Eichel thrive in this situation? He's had little mentoring,most of the vets Buffalo brought in like Skinner shit the bed,a few HC's,a few GM's and a few 'new directions' already @24. He was on a path of constant improvement regardless coming into this year and coming off his best season ever the year before........the other assets involved in this trade would have to work out in our favor and really.......what's the chance of that? This all comes down to where the FO sees the team right now,we'd still have an inept,disorganized defense and young,mediocre goaltending after the trade. What effect would two more lottery type seasons have on D-Cat at that point......he seems like a happy/loyal kid but who knows. Imagine this kid on a line with a top center and a big,rugged off wing...........that certainly WASN'T the case this year! You bring up an interesting point, Bob. Does D-Cat, at some point, become tired of losing and after this contract expires, he wants to be gone and play for a team that stands a chance of winning a Cup. It won't be fun losing all the time and why should he buy in to the notion that Stan can resurrect this team. So many things for Hawk fans to worry about. |
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Post by jacksalmon on May 18, 2021 9:53:29 GMT -6
Assuming that Toews is willing to be traded, how would it make any sense to keep him here in Chicago. There is nothing he can do with what the Hawks have that could justify keeping him given his age and trade value along with Kane's. Keeping those two guys will do nothing for the Hawks. They can't make the team a Cup winner. Their main value to the team's long term interest is what they could get in return in a trade. They already tried keeping and playing them and it does not accomplish anything worthwhile. They need to go, not because they do not have value, but because they do and they will not have enough support players to justify keeping them around. I agree with ya. It’s either you go for it one more time or just sell off and rebuild. But again. If you’re Dcat, do you wanna stick around if Toews and Kane are traded? So if it’s full rebuild. Most will want out. So you gotta be careful!!! The job of a GM is not easy. But, some have a great sense for it and some don't. I understand the appeal of keeping Toews and Kane and going for it one more time. But, haven't they tried that for several years and how did it work out? Answer: It didn't. There is no reason to think that this year's version of the Hawks plus Toews is going to be able to mix it up with the top squads in the league. Just the little bit of the recent playoff games I have seen convinces me that there is a big difference between the Hawks and those teams. It looks like two different games being played. As you say, Dcat might not stick around if K&T are gone, but who knows what Stan might get for them. Maybe GMs just try and try, but like most alchemists, they never get the gold. As I said though, it ain't easy being a GM. |
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Post by tincup on May 18, 2021 10:28:01 GMT -6
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Post by Tater on May 18, 2021 11:44:44 GMT -6
Great article, thanks for that link. |
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Post by BigT on May 18, 2021 11:46:29 GMT -6
One thing I want to keep touching on. Does anyone right now still believe in the cliche that last years playoff was really good for the Hawks? Honestly. Most Hawks fans used the cliche “it’s a great learning experience for them”. But was it? What did they learn? How to finish almost last? The kids did absolutely nothing in last years playoffs. Even Kubalik had one good game vs the Oilers. And none of them really did much vs the VGK. Toews was the guy that did almost everything for the Hawks. It wasn’t a learning experience, I think it was actually detrimental. Getting dissected is never good for a kids confidence. Plus, Stan went and ripped apart the roster and added like 7-8 newer players from last year. It meant nothing. Theo my reason I’m bringing this up is simply because a team needs to keep its eye on the real prize. If rebuilding was the goal, last years “gimme” was unnecessary. A top ten pick would have helped more. This is why Stan Bowman is all over the board, he switches his plan Avery half season and abandons what he was doing. Then you end up with a mishmash of lunacy like we have now. History is the best teacher. Stan and his “Great Communicator” are not!!! Lot to digest in your last few posts T and some interesting thoughts and suggestions. Eichel skating 2LC with a healthy JT to help mentor and Kane on his wing could be interesting,that puts Kubalik back with JT and what would D-Cat do on either of those lines? Seriously? Does Eichel thrive in this situation? He's had little mentoring,most of the vets Buffalo brought in like Skinner shit the bed,a few HC's,a few GM's and a few 'new directions' already @24. He was on a path of constant improvement regardless coming into this year and coming off his best season ever the year before........the other assets involved in this trade would have to work out in our favor and really.......what's the chance of that? This all comes down to where the FO sees the team right now,we'd still have an inept,disorganized defense and young,mediocre goaltending after the trade. What effect would two more lottery type seasons have on D-Cat at that point......he seems like a happy/loyal kid but who knows. Imagine this kid on a line with a top center and a big,rugged off wing...........that certainly WASN'T the case this year! If they keep Toews and Kane, what’s the end game? Just a leadership role? Isn’t that kind of expensive for just leadership? And where is the next wave of stars coming from to lead the charge? The questions are a plenty in keeping them and not adding young top talent. It’s like politicians and losers are running this team. They overvalue all the kids here. Not one of them stood out like we needed. And by stand out, I mean like Dcat did his rookie year. Or something close to that. None of the defenseman looked like real keepers besides Beaudin, and I’m not sure his ceiling is a top 2 dman. It’s more wishful thinking at this point. The same few guys carry the load and they do less every year while the team goes further down the rabbit hole. Adding in an Eichel gives the org the ability to go for it now, and later on. Dcat and Eichel is a very good new core to work with. 23 and 24 is a nice age to have em at. Add in Kubalik and Hagel. That’s a decent top 6 to move forward with. Add in Toews and Kane, it makes the top 6 untouchable. Ya the defense needs work. But with better forwards, the D would look much better. Gaudette, Entwhistle, Kurashev are all a step in the right direction in the bottom 6. In my opinion. Adding in a guy that could be an 80 point scorer does more good than anyone could imagine. Think of it this way. 80 F*** points. That would be Suter, Kurashev and Hagel and then some all in one guy. That’s a lot of production we just didn’t have. Now, those other guys get pushed down and play against the competition that’s more suited to them. That’s what you call depth. This way, even if Borgstrom is no scorer. Maybe now the trade might not be lost, and he could become a big checking line center? So the one guy can really help in more ways than anyone could imagine. Now, just trim around the edges, and add in another decent dman to the group, and make the kids earn it. And before you know it, the team will be on top again. But not without a bold move or two!!! |
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Post by jacksalmon on May 18, 2021 15:55:24 GMT -6
Good article and I quote this from it: "But, if you dig a little deeper into the shot numbers, there is this: High-danger Corsi against at 5-on-5 was a league-worst 534 (shots generated in high-danger areas) going into last night’s season finale, and high-danger goals against was next-to-last in the league, by just one goal. What this essentially means is the Hawks allowed opponents more top-quality scoring opportunities 5-on-5 than any other team in the league, upon which teams were able to convert at an almost league-worst rate." The author said that after saying that the Hawks suck at 5 on 5 hockey. While the less than stellar quality of the dmen explains the Corsi numbers he writes about, what he doesn't mention is that their forwards are also less than stellar and are responsible for the fact that the puck ends up in the Hawk end of the ice more often than not. So, they have a situation in which their offense can't keep the puck in the other team's end, so it comes back to the Hawk end where the dmen can't figure out how to keep the opponents from getting great shots; or just can't stop them from doing so. So, there we are. They aren't that good on offense and the same goes for the defense. All in all, that results in a team that is doomed to mediocrity for quite some time unless some miracles start occurring. |
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Post by tincup on May 18, 2021 16:39:47 GMT -6
Good article and I quote this from it: "But, if you dig a little deeper into the shot numbers, there is this: High-danger Corsi against at 5-on-5 was a league-worst 534 (shots generated in high-danger areas) going into last night’s season finale, and high-danger goals against was next-to-last in the league, by just one goal. What this essentially means is the Hawks allowed opponents more top-quality scoring opportunities 5-on-5 than any other team in the league, upon which teams were able to convert at an almost league-worst rate." The author said that after saying that the Hawks suck at 5 on 5 hockey. While the less than stellar quality of the dmen explains the Corsi numbers he writes about, what he doesn't mention is that their forwards are also less than stellar and are responsible for the fact that the puck ends up in the Hawk end of the ice more often than not. So, they have a situation in which their offense can't keep the puck in the other team's end, so it comes back to the Hawk end where the dmen can't figure out how to keep the opponents from getting great shots; or just can't stop them from doing so. So, there we are. They aren't that good on offense and the same goes for the defense. All in all, that results in a team that is doomed to mediocrity for quite some time unless some miracles start occurring. Whether you think every player on the Hawks is NHL quality or not they’ve all reached a level of the game few of us could dream of attaining. If they were truly this bad at defending or at being coached, they would have been weeded from the ranks years ago. How is it possible that they have accumulated the worst of the worst and all on the same team? Change out players, doesn’t matter, still bottom of the league in so many metrics. Year after year? Not likely. This tells me that blaming the players for your refusal to change your system is an excuse on the part of the staff. They need to go. Experiment over. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on May 18, 2021 22:00:41 GMT -6
Good article and I quote this from it: "But, if you dig a little deeper into the shot numbers, there is this: High-danger Corsi against at 5-on-5 was a league-worst 534 (shots generated in high-danger areas) going into last night’s season finale, and high-danger goals against was next-to-last in the league, by just one goal. What this essentially means is the Hawks allowed opponents more top-quality scoring opportunities 5-on-5 than any other team in the league, upon which teams were able to convert at an almost league-worst rate." The author said that after saying that the Hawks suck at 5 on 5 hockey. While the less than stellar quality of the dmen explains the Corsi numbers he writes about, what he doesn't mention is that their forwards are also less than stellar and are responsible for the fact that the puck ends up in the Hawk end of the ice more often than not. So, they have a situation in which their offense can't keep the puck in the other team's end, so it comes back to the Hawk end where the dmen can't figure out how to keep the opponents from getting great shots; or just can't stop them from doing so. So, there we are. They aren't that good on offense and the same goes for the defense. All in all, that results in a team that is doomed to mediocrity for quite some time unless some miracles start occurring. Whether you think every player on the Hawks is NHL quality or not they’ve all reached a level of the game few of us could dream of attaining. If they were truly this bad at defending or at being coached, they would have been weeded from the ranks years ago. How is it possible that they have accumulated the worst of the worst and all on the same team? Change out players, doesn’t matter, still bottom of the league in so many metrics. Year after year? Not likely. This tells me that blaming the players for your refusal to change your system is an excuse on the part of the staff. They need to go. Experiment over. Exactly, it's not solely on the dmen or even the forwards, it's the coach and his horrible system. |
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Post by Tater on May 18, 2021 22:48:13 GMT -6
Whether you think every player on the Hawks is NHL quality or not they’ve all reached a level of the game few of us could dream of attaining. If they were truly this bad at defending or at being coached, they would have been weeded from the ranks years ago. How is it possible that they have accumulated the worst of the worst and all on the same team? Change out players, doesn’t matter, still bottom of the league in so many metrics. Year after year? Not likely. This tells me that blaming the players for your refusal to change your system is an excuse on the part of the staff. They need to go. Experiment over. Well said man. Until JC, his "system", and Stan are gone I can't see things getting any better. |
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Post by hsbob on May 19, 2021 8:06:09 GMT -6
Lot to digest in your last few posts T and some interesting thoughts and suggestions. Eichel skating 2LC with a healthy JT to help mentor and Kane on his wing could be interesting,that puts Kubalik back with JT and what would D-Cat do on either of those lines? Seriously? Does Eichel thrive in this situation? He's had little mentoring,most of the vets Buffalo brought in like Skinner shit the bed,a few HC's,a few GM's and a few 'new directions' already @24. He was on a path of constant improvement regardless coming into this year and coming off his best season ever the year before........the other assets involved in this trade would have to work out in our favor and really.......what's the chance of that? This all comes down to where the FO sees the team right now,we'd still have an inept,disorganized defense and young,mediocre goaltending after the trade. What effect would two more lottery type seasons have on D-Cat at that point......he seems like a happy/loyal kid but who knows. Imagine this kid on a line with a top center and a big,rugged off wing...........that certainly WASN'T the case this year! If they keep Toews and Kane, what’s the end game? Just a leadership role? Isn’t that kind of expensive for just leadership? And where is the next wave of stars coming from to lead the charge? The questions are a plenty in keeping them and not adding young top talent. It’s like politicians and losers are running this team. They overvalue all the kids here. Not one of them stood out like we needed. And by stand out, I mean like Dcat did his rookie year. Or something close to that. None of the defenseman looked like real keepers besides Beaudin, and I’m not sure his ceiling is a top 2 dman. It’s more wishful thinking at this point. The same few guys carry the load and they do less every year while the team goes further down the rabbit hole. Adding in an Eichel gives the org the ability to go for it now, and later on. Dcat and Eichel is a very good new core to work with. 23 and 24 is a nice age to have em at. Add in Kubalik and Hagel. That’s a decent top 6 to move forward with. Add in Toews and Kane, it makes the top 6 untouchable. Ya the defense needs work. But with better forwards, the D would look much better. Gaudette, Entwhistle, Kurashev are all a step in the right direction in the bottom 6. In my opinion. Adding in a guy that could be an 80 point scorer does more good than anyone could imagine. Think of it this way. 80 F*** points. That would be Suter, Kurashev and Hagel and then some all in one guy. That’s a lot of production we just didn’t have. Now, those other guys get pushed down and play against the competition that’s more suited to them. That’s what you call depth. This way, even if Borgstrom is no scorer. Maybe now the trade might not be lost, and he could become a big checking line center? So the one guy can really help in more ways than anyone could imagine. Now, just trim around the edges, and add in another decent dman to the group, and make the kids earn it. And before you know it, the team will be on top again. But not without a bold move or two!!! It sounds like fun to me T but I doubt the team is anywhere near go for it mode so to answer your first sentence........the 'end game' is keeping the place full and selling merchandise. I'm sure King Rockwell has reminded Prince Daniel how much revenue the corporation has lost the last year and a half and I doubt a half empty barn is gonna be acceptable........attendance might be the ONLY metric that matters for the foreseeable future. |
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Post by tincup on May 19, 2021 8:09:05 GMT -6
Whether you think every player on the Hawks is NHL quality or not they’ve all reached a level of the game few of us could dream of attaining. If they were truly this bad at defending or at being coached, they would have been weeded from the ranks years ago. How is it possible that they have accumulated the worst of the worst and all on the same team? Change out players, doesn’t matter, still bottom of the league in so many metrics. Year after year? Not likely. This tells me that blaming the players for your refusal to change your system is an excuse on the part of the staff. They need to go. Experiment over. Exactly, it's not solely on the dmen or even the forwards, it's the coach and his horrible system. It’s too bad. I really liked the idea of new blood in the NHL coaching ranks and not just recycling the same old guys over and over. But it seems pretty obvious that there is some disconnect between what he’s saying and what they’re doing with neither youth nor experience having little to do with how their play is executed. However after saying this, I believe he’ll get a full camp next year with hopefully a more consistent line-up with fewer but better quality additions. |
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Post by tincup on May 19, 2021 8:13:03 GMT -6
Whether you think every player on the Hawks is NHL quality or not they’ve all reached a level of the game few of us could dream of attaining. If they were truly this bad at defending or at being coached, they would have been weeded from the ranks years ago. How is it possible that they have accumulated the worst of the worst and all on the same team? Change out players, doesn’t matter, still bottom of the league in so many metrics. Year after year? Not likely. This tells me that blaming the players for your refusal to change your system is an excuse on the part of the staff. They need to go. Experiment over. Well said man. Until JC, his "system", and Stan are gone I can't see things getting any better. I don’t believe the Hawks get rid of either but yet I also hope they prove me wrong and a full camp next year helps them show some major improvements in competitiveness. I just want my Hawks to be back in the game and competing again. |
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Post by LordKOTL on May 19, 2021 8:14:47 GMT -6
If they keep Toews and Kane, what’s the end game? Just a leadership role? Isn’t that kind of expensive for just leadership? And where is the next wave of stars coming from to lead the charge? The questions are a plenty in keeping them and not adding young top talent. It’s like politicians and losers are running this team. They overvalue all the kids here. Not one of them stood out like we needed. And by stand out, I mean like Dcat did his rookie year. Or something close to that. None of the defenseman looked like real keepers besides Beaudin, and I’m not sure his ceiling is a top 2 dman. It’s more wishful thinking at this point. The same few guys carry the load and they do less every year while the team goes further down the rabbit hole. Adding in an Eichel gives the org the ability to go for it now, and later on. Dcat and Eichel is a very good new core to work with. 23 and 24 is a nice age to have em at. Add in Kubalik and Hagel. That’s a decent top 6 to move forward with. Add in Toews and Kane, it makes the top 6 untouchable. Ya the defense needs work. But with better forwards, the D would look much better. Gaudette, Entwhistle, Kurashev are all a step in the right direction in the bottom 6. In my opinion. Adding in a guy that could be an 80 point scorer does more good than anyone could imagine. Think of it this way. 80 F*** points. That would be Suter, Kurashev and Hagel and then some all in one guy. That’s a lot of production we just didn’t have. Now, those other guys get pushed down and play against the competition that’s more suited to them. That’s what you call depth. This way, even if Borgstrom is no scorer. Maybe now the trade might not be lost, and he could become a big checking line center? So the one guy can really help in more ways than anyone could imagine. Now, just trim around the edges, and add in another decent dman to the group, and make the kids earn it. And before you know it, the team will be on top again. But not without a bold move or two!!! It sounds like fun to me T but I doubt the team is anywhere near go for it mode so to answer your first sentence........the 'end game' is keeping the place full and selling merchandise. I'm sure King Rockwell has reminded Prince Daniel how much revenue the corporation has lost the last year and a half and I doubt a half empty barn is gonna be acceptable........attendance might be the ONLY metric that matters for the foreseeable future. I like the cut of your jib on this. I think it's a reminder that there's a lot more wheels in motion than simply "Do what you need to do to build a contender"--especially if part of that is also keeping ticket, and by proxy concession sales high. Granted, a smart GM could try to do both. Still, while Toews moving forward is a huge question mark (not a knock on him--we just don't know what he'll be when he comes back), Kane is still solid so at least his mentorship kills two stones with one bird. I do think that Debrincat's year this year helps. If the 'hawks were smart they'd try to market that as well as Kane and Toews--especially if one of them leaves the organization for whatever reason. |
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Post by BigT on May 19, 2021 12:49:26 GMT -6
If they keep Toews and Kane, what’s the end game? Just a leadership role? Isn’t that kind of expensive for just leadership? And where is the next wave of stars coming from to lead the charge? The questions are a plenty in keeping them and not adding young top talent. It’s like politicians and losers are running this team. They overvalue all the kids here. Not one of them stood out like we needed. And by stand out, I mean like Dcat did his rookie year. Or something close to that. None of the defenseman looked like real keepers besides Beaudin, and I’m not sure his ceiling is a top 2 dman. It’s more wishful thinking at this point. The same few guys carry the load and they do less every year while the team goes further down the rabbit hole. Adding in an Eichel gives the org the ability to go for it now, and later on. Dcat and Eichel is a very good new core to work with. 23 and 24 is a nice age to have em at. Add in Kubalik and Hagel. That’s a decent top 6 to move forward with. Add in Toews and Kane, it makes the top 6 untouchable. Ya the defense needs work. But with better forwards, the D would look much better. Gaudette, Entwhistle, Kurashev are all a step in the right direction in the bottom 6. In my opinion. Adding in a guy that could be an 80 point scorer does more good than anyone could imagine. Think of it this way. 80 F*** points. That would be Suter, Kurashev and Hagel and then some all in one guy. That’s a lot of production we just didn’t have. Now, those other guys get pushed down and play against the competition that’s more suited to them. That’s what you call depth. This way, even if Borgstrom is no scorer. Maybe now the trade might not be lost, and he could become a big checking line center? So the one guy can really help in more ways than anyone could imagine. Now, just trim around the edges, and add in another decent dman to the group, and make the kids earn it. And before you know it, the team will be on top again. But not without a bold move or two!!! It sounds like fun to me T but I doubt the team is anywhere near go for it mode so to answer your first sentence........the 'end game' is keeping the place full and selling merchandise. I'm sure King Rockwell has reminded Prince Daniel how much revenue the corporation has lost the last year and a half and I doubt a half empty barn is gonna be acceptable........attendance might be the ONLY metric that matters for the foreseeable future. One thing I hope the org keeps in mind is this. Just look at the Wings. Their barn is half empty at best these days. And by these days I mean last year and the year before. And I’m sure they’ll be half empty at best again next year. So, with a great winning team comes great expectations. The Wings last Cup win was 13 years ago. Let that sink in. Hawks are already 6. Fans are already losing interest, I doubt the Hawks will be packed either. Fans are very expecting these days. I doubt the fans pay those outrageous prices anymore and the corporate sector starts to back out after Covid. The Wings had a solid 25 years of good hockey that brought 4 Cups. Tickets now are cheaper than they were 13 years ago, and they still can’t fill the arena. Last game I went to had 12k in attendance. Same will happen in Chicago unless they can find a way to make the team better or have much more hope than they have now. The org (especially Stan Bowman) has been called out a lot recently for over hyping prospects. Fans are catching on and not buying it. Hopefully the team while stuck in mediocrity, will just realize fans aren’t coming out and Stan Bowman is not the way!!! |
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Post by hawkfaninpdx on May 19, 2021 14:25:31 GMT -6
It sounds like fun to me T but I doubt the team is anywhere near go for it mode so to answer your first sentence........the 'end game' is keeping the place full and selling merchandise. I'm sure King Rockwell has reminded Prince Daniel how much revenue the corporation has lost the last year and a half and I doubt a half empty barn is gonna be acceptable........attendance might be the ONLY metric that matters for the foreseeable future. One thing I hope the org keeps in mind is this. Just look at the Wings. Their barn is half empty at best these days. And by these days I mean last year and the year before. And I’m sure they’ll be half empty at best again next year. So, with a great winning team comes great expectations. The Wings last Cup win was 13 years ago. Let that sink in. Hawks are already 6. Fans are already losing interest, I doubt the Hawks will be packed either. Fans are very expecting these days. I doubt the fans pay those outrageous prices anymore and the corporate sector starts to back out after Covid. The Wings had a solid 25 years of good hockey that brought 4 Cups. Tickets now are cheaper than they were 13 years ago, and they still can’t fill the arena. Last game I went to had 12k in attendance. Same will happen in Chicago unless they can find a way to make the team better or have much more hope than they have now. The org (especially Stan Bowman) has been called out a lot recently for over hyping prospects. Fans are catching on and not buying it. Hopefully the team while stuck in mediocrity, will just realize fans aren’t coming out and Stan Bowman is not the way!!! I honestly believe that the main obstacle that prevents this team from being a much better team -- particularly if Toews returns -- is their coach. I don't see them being a cup contender in the immediate future, but they can at least be pointing in the right direction, provided they have decent coaching. I agree with this article though: www.secondcityhockey.com/2021/5/18/22440838/chicago-blackhawks-2021-nhl-offseason-jeremy-colliton-stan-bowman-analysis-commentary |
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Post by vadarx on May 19, 2021 15:58:26 GMT -6
One thing I hope the org keeps in mind is this. Just look at the Wings. Their barn is half empty at best these days. And by these days I mean last year and the year before. And I’m sure they’ll be half empty at best again next year. So, with a great winning team comes great expectations. The Wings last Cup win was 13 years ago. Let that sink in. Hawks are already 6. Fans are already losing interest, I doubt the Hawks will be packed either. Fans are very expecting these days. I doubt the fans pay those outrageous prices anymore and the corporate sector starts to back out after Covid. The Wings had a solid 25 years of good hockey that brought 4 Cups. Tickets now are cheaper than they were 13 years ago, and they still can’t fill the arena. Last game I went to had 12k in attendance. Same will happen in Chicago unless they can find a way to make the team better or have much more hope than they have now. The org (especially Stan Bowman) has been called out a lot recently for over hyping prospects. Fans are catching on and not buying it. Hopefully the team while stuck in mediocrity, will just realize fans aren’t coming out and Stan Bowman is not the way!!! I honestly believe that the main obstacle that prevents this team from being a much better team -- particularly if Toews returns -- is their coach. I don't see them being a cup contender in the immediate future, but they can at least be pointing in the right direction, provided they have decent coaching. I agree with this article though: www.secondcityhockey.com/2021/5/18/22440838/chicago-blackhawks-2021-nhl-offseason-jeremy-colliton-stan-bowman-analysis-commentarygood on SCH to finally join the club. they've been pretty non-committal on saying anything against JC or Bowman. nice to see them come out and print something saying what a fair amount of 'hawks fans have been saying. the comments are gold, as well. too bad none of our opinions will matter for another season, at least. |
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Post by hawks27 on May 19, 2021 16:04:52 GMT -6
Good article and I quote this from it: "But, if you dig a little deeper into the shot numbers, there is this: High-danger Corsi against at 5-on-5 was a league-worst 534 (shots generated in high-danger areas) going into last night’s season finale, and high-danger goals against was next-to-last in the league, by just one goal. What this essentially means is the Hawks allowed opponents more top-quality scoring opportunities 5-on-5 than any other team in the league, upon which teams were able to convert at an almost league-worst rate." The author said that after saying that the Hawks suck at 5 on 5 hockey. While the less than stellar quality of the dmen explains the Corsi numbers he writes about, what he doesn't mention is that their forwards are also less than stellar and are responsible for the fact that the puck ends up in the Hawk end of the ice more often than not. So, they have a situation in which their offense can't keep the puck in the other team's end, so it comes back to the Hawk end where the dmen can't figure out how to keep the opponents from getting great shots; or just can't stop them from doing so. So, there we are. They aren't that good on offense and the same goes for the defense. All in all, that results in a team that is doomed to mediocrity for quite some time unless some miracles start occurring. Whether you think every player on the Hawks is NHL quality or not they’ve all reached a level of the game few of us could dream of attaining. If they were truly this bad at defending or at being coached, they would have been weeded from the ranks years ago. How is it possible that they have accumulated the worst of the worst and all on the same team? Change out players, doesn’t matter, still bottom of the league in so many metrics. Year after year? Not likely. This tells me that blaming the players for your refusal to change your system is an excuse on the part of the staff. They need to go. Experiment over. The "system" we have witnessed this past season is not a functional "system" in the NHL. Results pretty much show that.
Somewhere, I read that the "system" JC has been using in Chicago is the same type that the Islanders are using. WRONG! I recorded the Isles-Pens game from last night and paid particular attention to what the Isles were doing in their D-end. I did not see any D-men chasing out to the points.
I saw what most successful teams (at levels above Midget) use. One D man in the corner on the puck, Center (or first forward back) deep with that first D man. Other D man in net front coverage. Strong side wing on the boards near the hash marks. Weak side forward high in the slot. That is what I saw the Isles doing. That is what I hope the Hawks begin to do next season. It's up to JC to make this change. If he's so egotistical that he won't admit failure, then I can only say "God help the Blackhawks next season!" |
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Post by vadarx on May 19, 2021 16:49:29 GMT -6
Whether you think every player on the Hawks is NHL quality or not they’ve all reached a level of the game few of us could dream of attaining. If they were truly this bad at defending or at being coached, they would have been weeded from the ranks years ago. How is it possible that they have accumulated the worst of the worst and all on the same team? Change out players, doesn’t matter, still bottom of the league in so many metrics. Year after year? Not likely. This tells me that blaming the players for your refusal to change your system is an excuse on the part of the staff. They need to go. Experiment over. The "system" we have witnessed this past season is not a functional "system" in the NHL. Results pretty much show that.
Somewhere, I read that the "system" JC has been using in Chicago is the same type that the Islanders are using. WRONG! I recorded the Isles-Pens game from last night and paid particular attention to what the Isles were doing in their D-end. I did not see any D-men chasing out to the points.
I saw what most successful teams (at levels above Midget) use. One D man in the corner on the puck, Center (or first forward back) deep with that first D man. Other D man in net front coverage. Strong side wing on the boards near the hash marks. Weak side forward high in the slot. That is what I saw the Isles doing. That is what I hope the Hawks begin to do next season. It's up to JC to make this change. If he's so egotistical that he won't admit failure, then I can only say "God help the Blackhawks next season!" I've made the comparison before as Trotz was known for a man to man system, but obviously JC has taken it to different level than Trotz ever did. |
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Post by BigT on May 19, 2021 16:51:51 GMT -6
One thing I hope the org keeps in mind is this. Just look at the Wings. Their barn is half empty at best these days. And by these days I mean last year and the year before. And I’m sure they’ll be half empty at best again next year. So, with a great winning team comes great expectations. The Wings last Cup win was 13 years ago. Let that sink in. Hawks are already 6. Fans are already losing interest, I doubt the Hawks will be packed either. Fans are very expecting these days. I doubt the fans pay those outrageous prices anymore and the corporate sector starts to back out after Covid. The Wings had a solid 25 years of good hockey that brought 4 Cups. Tickets now are cheaper than they were 13 years ago, and they still can’t fill the arena. Last game I went to had 12k in attendance. Same will happen in Chicago unless they can find a way to make the team better or have much more hope than they have now. The org (especially Stan Bowman) has been called out a lot recently for over hyping prospects. Fans are catching on and not buying it. Hopefully the team while stuck in mediocrity, will just realize fans aren’t coming out and Stan Bowman is not the way!!! I honestly believe that the main obstacle that prevents this team from being a much better team -- particularly if Toews returns -- is their coach. I don't see them being a cup contender in the immediate future, but they can at least be pointing in the right direction, provided they have decent coaching. I agree with this article though: www.secondcityhockey.com/2021/5/18/22440838/chicago-blackhawks-2021-nhl-offseason-jeremy-colliton-stan-bowman-analysis-commentaryThanks for that article. Pretty well sums it up. But Colliton just signed a two year extension, and i doubt they get rid of him right now. However. With Turk (Gallant) out there, just look what he did with VGK. Like my gosh, he got the most outta those guys. And they learned to play the right way. Also. I think Stan is directly linked to JC. He’s floated the “Great Communicator” out there, and it’s just not true. The team needs to get rid of Stan before JC. My best guess right now is this...... Stan wants a coach who won’t question him, and he can learn to GM on the fly. He lets JC do his thing and will eventually dump him, maybe even after next season. Like the article said, my boy Rocky Thompson is waiting for his shot. He coached my Spitfires to a Memorial Cup in 2017. He’d be better as he’s shown to make kids reach their potential. But if Stan fires him now, he’s probably going with him. I learned one time that if you’re not patient you’ll become one. And I’m starting to wonder if I am one supporting this team!!! |
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Post by BigT on May 19, 2021 17:04:12 GMT -6
Whether you think every player on the Hawks is NHL quality or not they’ve all reached a level of the game few of us could dream of attaining. If they were truly this bad at defending or at being coached, they would have been weeded from the ranks years ago. How is it possible that they have accumulated the worst of the worst and all on the same team? Change out players, doesn’t matter, still bottom of the league in so many metrics. Year after year? Not likely. This tells me that blaming the players for your refusal to change your system is an excuse on the part of the staff. They need to go. Experiment over. The "system" we have witnessed this past season is not a functional "system" in the NHL. Results pretty much show that.
Somewhere, I read that the "system" JC has been using in Chicago is the same type that the Islanders are using. WRONG! I recorded the Isles-Pens game from last night and paid particular attention to what the Isles were doing in their D-end. I did not see any D-men chasing out to the points.
I saw what most successful teams (at levels above Midget) use. One D man in the corner on the puck, Center (or first forward back) deep with that first D man. Other D man in net front coverage. Strong side wing on the boards near the hash marks. Weak side forward high in the slot. That is what I saw the Isles doing. That is what I hope the Hawks begin to do next season. It's up to JC to make this change. If he's so egotistical that he won't admit failure, then I can only say "God help the Blackhawks next season!" I coach. And what we teach is basically what you said. The front of the net is the “house”. Gotta always protect the house. Never have two dmen behind the net. Center plays low when needed, wingers really shouldn’t be much lower than the hash marks. Unless it’s a dire situation. When leaving the zone, the last dmen has the “key” to the house. He can’t cross his blue line until his team is firmly heading just about past the offensive blue line. I’m not a fan at all of getting guys to chase and have a forward covering the front of the net. I said this from the start. Many kept saying “give him a shot”. You cannot do this when his style of play is demeaning to professional players. It really is. Hearing Kane say the other day that he’s played puck possession his whole career and this was very different to him. That’s Kane lipping off. Toews doesn’t like the guy. And when Kane said in one of his interviews, recently about how much he misses Toews. In all aspects. I think Kane missed Toews the most in the room. Kane had to endure JC’s loserisms. I think both will be long gone is he’s still head next year at this time!!! |
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Post by jacksalmon on May 19, 2021 17:55:20 GMT -6
Good article and I quote this from it: "But, if you dig a little deeper into the shot numbers, there is this: High-danger Corsi against at 5-on-5 was a league-worst 534 (shots generated in high-danger areas) going into last night’s season finale, and high-danger goals against was next-to-last in the league, by just one goal. What this essentially means is the Hawks allowed opponents more top-quality scoring opportunities 5-on-5 than any other team in the league, upon which teams were able to convert at an almost league-worst rate." The author said that after saying that the Hawks suck at 5 on 5 hockey. While the less than stellar quality of the dmen explains the Corsi numbers he writes about, what he doesn't mention is that their forwards are also less than stellar and are responsible for the fact that the puck ends up in the Hawk end of the ice more often than not. So, they have a situation in which their offense can't keep the puck in the other team's end, so it comes back to the Hawk end where the dmen can't figure out how to keep the opponents from getting great shots; or just can't stop them from doing so. So, there we are. They aren't that good on offense and the same goes for the defense. All in all, that results in a team that is doomed to mediocrity for quite some time unless some miracles start occurring. Whether you think every player on the Hawks is NHL quality or not they’ve all reached a level of the game few of us could dream of attaining. If they were truly this bad at defending or at being coached, they would have been weeded from the ranks years ago. How is it possible that they have accumulated the worst of the worst and all on the same team? Change out players, doesn’t matter, still bottom of the league in so many metrics. Year after year? Not likely. This tells me that blaming the players for your refusal to change your system is an excuse on the part of the staff. They need to go. Experiment over. OK, so most of the offensive players suck and the same can be said of most of the defensive players. I can accept the fact that the coaching staff sucks also. What's that spell? DEFEAT. |
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Post by jacksalmon on May 19, 2021 18:08:48 GMT -6
One thing I hope the org keeps in mind is this. Just look at the Wings. Their barn is half empty at best these days. And by these days I mean last year and the year before. And I’m sure they’ll be half empty at best again next year. So, with a great winning team comes great expectations. The Wings last Cup win was 13 years ago. Let that sink in. Hawks are already 6. Fans are already losing interest, I doubt the Hawks will be packed either. Fans are very expecting these days. I doubt the fans pay those outrageous prices anymore and the corporate sector starts to back out after Covid. The Wings had a solid 25 years of good hockey that brought 4 Cups. Tickets now are cheaper than they were 13 years ago, and they still can’t fill the arena. Last game I went to had 12k in attendance. Same will happen in Chicago unless they can find a way to make the team better or have much more hope than they have now. The org (especially Stan Bowman) has been called out a lot recently for over hyping prospects. Fans are catching on and not buying it. Hopefully the team while stuck in mediocrity, will just realize fans aren’t coming out and Stan Bowman is not the way!!! I honestly believe that the main obstacle that prevents this team from being a much better team -- particularly if Toews returns -- is their coach. I don't see them being a cup contender in the immediate future, but they can at least be pointing in the right direction, provided they have decent coaching. I agree with this article though: www.secondcityhockey.com/2021/5/18/22440838/chicago-blackhawks-2021-nhl-offseason-jeremy-colliton-stan-bowman-analysis-commentaryI am quoting the following from the SCH article: "The Blackhawks can’t generate high-danger chances, but they sure are good at giving them up. They can’t sustain offensive pressure, but they sure are good at allowing it. They’re one-and-done in the offensive zone, but teams get a ton of rebound opportunities in the Blackhawks’ defensive zone" I quoted it because I like the analysis. Why do I like the analysis? Because I have been whining all year about the SOG discrepancy in the opponent's favor and severe discrepancy in the amount of time the puck spends in either team's D end, which is again not in the Hawks' favor. It may because of the design of Hawks' defensive/offensive system. Or, it may be because their offensive/defensive players don't have enough skills. I am not smart enough to know the whys. But, I do have some powers of observation and I know it when I see it. These guys can't keep the puck in the other team's end when they are on offense and they consistently give up more shots on goal than they are getting against the opponents' goalie. You smart guys can tell me why, but these observations are the end results of their deficiencies, which are severe. |
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Post by hawkfaninpdx on May 19, 2021 22:27:01 GMT -6
I am quoting the following from the SCH article: "The Blackhawks can’t generate high-danger chances, but they sure are good at giving them up. They can’t sustain offensive pressure, but they sure are good at allowing it. They’re one-and-done in the offensive zone, but teams get a ton of rebound opportunities in the Blackhawks’ defensive zone"I quoted it because I like the analysis. Why do I like the analysis? Because I have been whining all year about the SOG discrepancy in the opponent's favor and severe discrepancy in the amount of time the puck spends in either team's D end, which is again not in the Hawks' favor. It may because of the design of Hawks' defensive/offensive system. Or, it may be because their offensive/defensive players don't have enough skills. I am not smart enough to know the whys. But, I do have some powers of observation and I know it when I see it. These guys can't keep the puck in the other team's end when they are on offense and they consistently give up more shots on goal than they are getting against the opponents' goalie. You smart guys can tell me why, but these observations are the end results of their deficiencies, which are severe. Yes, this caught my eye as well; this sentence sums up...the last 3 seasons perfectly. In the last game, it almost seemed like Dallas was on PP. And I don't believe that it's just the quality of the Hawks's defensemen. As Tincup has pointed out, they all got to this level somehow; all of the players are NHL caliber. Something just isn't clicking with them. I'll defer to the more knowledgeable posters, who blame the defensive system. I also believe that in order to gel as a team, they have to stop bringing new personnel wholesale. I don't mind swapping a few pieces here and there, but I'd love to see what a good coach can squeeze out of them. |
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Post by BigT on May 20, 2021 6:44:16 GMT -6
I am quoting the following from the SCH article: "The Blackhawks can’t generate high-danger chances, but they sure are good at giving them up. They can’t sustain offensive pressure, but they sure are good at allowing it. They’re one-and-done in the offensive zone, but teams get a ton of rebound opportunities in the Blackhawks’ defensive zone"I quoted it because I like the analysis. Why do I like the analysis? Because I have been whining all year about the SOG discrepancy in the opponent's favor and severe discrepancy in the amount of time the puck spends in either team's D end, which is again not in the Hawks' favor. It may because of the design of Hawks' defensive/offensive system. Or, it may be because their offensive/defensive players don't have enough skills. I am not smart enough to know the whys. But, I do have some powers of observation and I know it when I see it. These guys can't keep the puck in the other team's end when they are on offense and they consistently give up more shots on goal than they are getting against the opponents' goalie. You smart guys can tell me why, but these observations are the end results of their deficiencies, which are severe. Yes, this caught my eye as well; this sentence sums up...the last 3 seasons perfectly. In the last game, it almost seemed like Dallas was on PP. And I don't believe that it's just the quality of the Hawks's defensemen. As Tincup has pointed out, they all got to this level somehow; all of the players are NHL caliber. Something just isn't clicking with them. I'll defer to the more knowledgeable posters, who blame the defensive system. I also believe that in order to gel as a team, they have to stop bringing new personnel wholesale. I don't mind swapping a few pieces here and there, but I'd love to see what a good coach can squeeze out of them. I’m in no way sticking up for Boqvist here. And I don’t wanna make excuses for the kid. But maybe, just maybe he could be decent if he was coached properly? Not just him, maybe Mitchell and everyone else could be much better under normal circumstances? It does seem that all of the more hyped guys are all massively underperforming Boqvist, Dach, Mitchell. You’re gonna see guys decline simply because they’ve never seen anything like this in their life. They have no idea what the coach wants and or what’s right or wrong. I coach my son and his age group. The hardest part is teaching them positioning. If I have my son on right wing, sometimes I’ll see him down in the left D corner trying to get pucks. Now his wing is wide open. And you can’t expect the Center to understand what he’s doing and cover for him. The same type thing is going on with the Hawks. When a dman chases out to the blue line, the forward has to cover the front of the net I assume. Now, let’s say the dman does pluck the puck away, how do you break out? Let’s say the start a break out. Now the forwards gotta catch up to the play and the dman has to back away from the play. The NHL is way too fast to be slowing the game down. They will never ever win 5 on 5 like this and last time I checked, most of the game is played 5 on 5. My best guess is JC will have to change this. If he’s any type of coach, he knows the guys are struggling mightily with this. If he doesn’t, he’ll never work again in the NHL. The best coaches adjust. Yes the Hawks played puck possession under Q. When teams clogged the neutral zone, he adjusted and dumped it in so we could win. JC does not adjust. He’s stubborn or stupid, maybe both!!! |
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Post by T-man2010 on May 20, 2021 7:37:41 GMT -6
I don't care who the coach is, any coach would look like crap with any "system" when you have this to work with.  |
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Post by BigT on May 20, 2021 14:21:56 GMT -6
I don't care who the coach is, any coach would look like crap with any "system" when you have this to work with. Beaudin was one of the top defenders in Jr. on both ends of the ice. Dach was one of the top ranked kids in the world. So there’s some serious talent here. When they underperform, the coaching isn’t getting the most out of them. Plain and simple!!! |
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