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Post by hsbob on Nov 3, 2021 7:15:06 GMT -6
Granada is coo, he has some great insights. i dont go to chicitysports, who else is there from the old board? anyone seen Merper? (i think that's his name). Darthkane and EbonyRaptor are in hockeybuzz Merper quit here last season along with phil9. Same with ER all over political differences. There are also a couple others that don't come back around for that reason. Most are still on the members list but phil9 and merper deleted their accounts. And I have my thoughts on thats why madrose left us and GT. That's why I rather politics and religion be left out of conversations but everyone is an adult here. I agree with vadarx as far as those three leaving T-man. Merp unfortunately had another melt down,Phil(who I still email)left during a Hawks/Panthers GDT over a dustup that was hockey related and ER had a problem with me and others being negative. I have no idea why Madrose left and GT and I PM'd a lot,I don't see how politics affected anyone leaving and there's little of it here IMO.
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Post by BigT on Nov 3, 2021 7:57:09 GMT -6
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Post by BigT on Nov 3, 2021 8:10:23 GMT -6
Also, Laz has a piece on the Athletic about how Rocky has to answer some questions before he’s totally absolved. Bob brought up some valid points about how the Hawks legal team gave the NHL a heads up last December. Plus a few other sticking points in there!!!
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Post by hsbob on Nov 3, 2021 9:20:33 GMT -6
Also, Laz has a piece on the Athletic about how Rocky has to answer some questions before he’s totally absolved. Bob brought up some valid points about how the Hawks legal team gave the NHL a heads up last December. Plus a few other sticking points in there!!! A good buddy is a photographer and he knows one of the guys who used to shoot for the Hawks,this guy claims that Rocky was so involved back then,even photog bills went by his desk. The report and Bettman both went out of their way to say how ownership knew nothing and the report also piled most of the blame on two guys who were already gone,McD and Q......convenient to say the least.
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Post by vadarx on Nov 3, 2021 10:49:57 GMT -6
I posted about this a while back. I was wondering if this would starting getting some more press...
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Post by jacksalmon on Nov 3, 2021 11:15:19 GMT -6
I don't think that religion/politics have been divisive issues on this board. In fact, I don't even see the usual issues regarding religion/politics come up on this board or the team sponsored one we all formerly used. I have seen blowups on hockey issues, but not religious or political ones. But, maybe I missed them all.
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Post by vadarx on Nov 3, 2021 11:32:52 GMT -6
I don't think that religion/politics have been divisive issues on this board. In fact, I don't even see the usual issues regarding religion/politics come up on this board or the team sponsored one we all formerly used. I have seen blowups on hockey issues, but not religious or political ones. But, maybe I missed them all. for the most part those have been avoided here and I believe most here are in agreement that neither should be talked about here.
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Post by Tater on Nov 3, 2021 11:46:50 GMT -6
I don't think that religion/politics have been divisive issues on this board. In fact, I don't even see the usual issues regarding religion/politics come up on this board or the team sponsored one we all formerly used. I have seen blowups on hockey issues, but not religious or political ones. But, maybe I missed them all. for the most part those have been avoided here and I believe most here are in agreement that neither should be talked about here.Yep. There's plenty of other places for that crap.
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Post by BigT on Nov 3, 2021 19:31:48 GMT -6
I don't think that religion/politics have been divisive issues on this board. In fact, I don't even see the usual issues regarding religion/politics come up on this board or the team sponsored one we all formerly used. I have seen blowups on hockey issues, but not religious or political ones. But, maybe I missed them all. for the most part those have been avoided here and I believe most here are in agreement that neither should be talked about here. Absentia dei!!!
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Post by LordKOTL on Nov 4, 2021 8:06:57 GMT -6
I have little doubt that Toews will be available and probably taken now, because the men at the top have decided that alllllll the shit is rolling downhill here. they let the brass take the medicine first and now they are gonna let the coaches and players be shat upon so they can skate away free and clear. so, when we get a 3rd rounder for Toews (with half retained), don't be shocked. that is if other teams want to deal with the bad pub of adding a disgraced player to their team. Skate away is right,Betteman had another interview today and he had to add "ownership was unaware" and he wasn't even asked. I know a long time NHL family owned team holds a lot of influence but I never knew how much. Why is it only Toews and Kane get this disgraced bullshit? They were two of the youngest guys on a team with many veterans,just because they're the last two left? Toews and Kane, even been the young kids at the time, were the faces of the franchise and in the limelight. As such, they are/were the two players which the average Joe/Jane thinks of when they think "Blackhawks player". Like I said before, in my opinion all Toews should do is what Kane did--offer a redaction to what he said. Kane did and at least in my opinion, everything's fine with him. Even if Toews doesn't do any redaction I don't think there should be really any severe censure to him (like not forcing a trade or removal of the C), even though I would think it would be in his best interest from a PR standpoint. I mean, hell, people aren't calling for Keith's head even though he refused to cooperate in the investigation. IMHO that's a bit worse for PR optics than Toews' & Kane's off-the-cuff comments. Further, Sharp was an "A", what does he have to say (likely, something similar to Hossa's statement). Bob, I fully agree. There’s many bad “optics” here and Rocky made sure he got off free. I wonder if McD eventually speaks up and sewers Wirtz and Scambo? I’m starting to feel that the best way forward is to see the Wirtz’s sell the team and let a fresh set of eyes remake the franchise!!! Something I read a bit ago about the Rocky/McD dynamic was that McD would insulate Rocky and tell him something like 5% of what's actually happening. Now, call it plausible deniability or not but ultimately I think unless new information comes to light, McD is the place where the buck stops. He was in that meeting and he could have definitely got a proper investigation going unilaterally and unilaterally separated Aldrich and Beach--be it sexual assault or sexual harassment. Like I said: Behind Aldrich and Gary, he's the most culpable character in this fiasco.
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Post by BigT on Nov 4, 2021 8:57:40 GMT -6
I don’t disagree M’Lord. I just think the witch hunt has gone much too far. Because they refuse to really lay into Rockwell. And McD is no where to be found or be blamed. They have to sack someone else. Just sickening!!!
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Post by hsbob on Nov 4, 2021 10:01:30 GMT -6
Skate away is right,Betteman had another interview today and he had to add "ownership was unaware" and he wasn't even asked. I know a long time NHL family owned team holds a lot of influence but I never knew how much. Why is it only Toews and Kane get this disgraced bullshit? They were two of the youngest guys on a team with many veterans,just because they're the last two left? Toews and Kane, even been the young kids at the time, were the faces of the franchise and in the limelight. As such, they are/were the two players which the average Joe/Jane thinks of when they think "Blackhawks player". Like I said before, in my opinion all Toews should do is what Kane did--offer a redaction to what he said. Kane did and at least in my opinion, everything's fine with him. Even if Toews doesn't do any redaction I don't think there should be really any severe censure to him (like not forcing a trade or removal of the C), even though I would think it would be in his best interest from a PR standpoint. I mean, hell, people aren't calling for Keith's head even though he refused to cooperate in the investigation. IMHO that's a bit worse for PR optics than Toews' & Kane's off-the-cuff comments. Further, Sharp was an "A", what does he have to say (likely, something similar to Hossa's statement). Bob, I fully agree. There’s many bad “optics” here and Rocky made sure he got off free. I wonder if McD eventually speaks up and sewers Wirtz and Scambo? I’m starting to feel that the best way forward is to see the Wirtz’s sell the team and let a fresh set of eyes remake the franchise!!! Something I read a bit ago about the Rocky/McD dynamic was that McD would insulate Rocky and tell him something like 5% of what's actually happening. Now, call it plausible deniability or not but ultimately I think unless new information comes to light, McD is the place where the buck stops. He was in that meeting and he could have definitely got a proper investigation going unilaterally and unilaterally separated Aldrich and Beach--be it sexual assault or sexual harassment. Like I said: Behind Aldrich and Gary, he's the most culpable character in this fiasco. You missed this yesterday then....... www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/blackhawks-captain-jonathan-toews-offers-clearer-support-kyle-beach/It might not be as contrite as some want and that suits me just fine! Captain/face of the franchise......21 none the less,Johnny Madden was a long tenured veteran,Big Hoss was a long tenured superstar,Keith and Seabs were older like you said and holier than thou Sopel and Boynton were all told the same thing and all did the same thing back then regardless of what is said today.....NOTHING.........among MANY other players and assistant coaches. Some rendition of 'we didn't know how serious the allegations were back then and management assured us it was being handled' still works for everyone not named Quenneville,Toews or Kane for some reason and any mention of sanctions against Toews are absurd IMO!
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Post by vadarx on Nov 4, 2021 11:17:45 GMT -6
Toews and Kane, even been the young kids at the time, were the faces of the franchise and in the limelight. As such, they are/were the two players which the average Joe/Jane thinks of when they think "Blackhawks player". Like I said before, in my opinion all Toews should do is what Kane did--offer a redaction to what he said. Kane did and at least in my opinion, everything's fine with him. Even if Toews doesn't do any redaction I don't think there should be really any severe censure to him (like not forcing a trade or removal of the C), even though I would think it would be in his best interest from a PR standpoint. I mean, hell, people aren't calling for Keith's head even though he refused to cooperate in the investigation. IMHO that's a bit worse for PR optics than Toews' & Kane's off-the-cuff comments. Further, Sharp was an "A", what does he have to say (likely, something similar to Hossa's statement). Something I read a bit ago about the Rocky/McD dynamic was that McD would insulate Rocky and tell him something like 5% of what's actually happening. Now, call it plausible deniability or not but ultimately I think unless new information comes to light, McD is the place where the buck stops. He was in that meeting and he could have definitely got a proper investigation going unilaterally and unilaterally separated Aldrich and Beach--be it sexual assault or sexual harassment. Like I said: Behind Aldrich and Gary, he's the most culpable character in this fiasco. You missed this yesterday then....... www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/blackhawks-captain-jonathan-toews-offers-clearer-support-kyle-beach/It might not be as contrite as some want and that suits me just fine! Captain/face of the franchise......21 none the less,Johnny Madden was a long tenured veteran,Big Hoss was a long tenured superstar,Keith and Seabs were older like you said and holier than thou Sopel and Boynton were all told the same thing and all did the same thing back then regardless of what is said today.....NOTHING.........among MANY other players and assistant coaches. Some rendition of 'we didn't know how serious the allegations were back then and management assured us it was being handled' still works for everyone not named Quenneville,Toews or Kane for some reason and any mention of sanctions against Toews are absurd IMO! beat me to it, Bob. I agree 100%. on the Sopel note, he is adamant that Rocky didnt know.... seems odd to me that he goes out of his way to throw his teammates under the bus and defend Wirtz...
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Post by LordKOTL on Nov 4, 2021 12:42:41 GMT -6
Toews and Kane, even been the young kids at the time, were the faces of the franchise and in the limelight. As such, they are/were the two players which the average Joe/Jane thinks of when they think "Blackhawks player". Like I said before, in my opinion all Toews should do is what Kane did--offer a redaction to what he said. Kane did and at least in my opinion, everything's fine with him. Even if Toews doesn't do any redaction I don't think there should be really any severe censure to him (like not forcing a trade or removal of the C), even though I would think it would be in his best interest from a PR standpoint. I mean, hell, people aren't calling for Keith's head even though he refused to cooperate in the investigation. IMHO that's a bit worse for PR optics than Toews' & Kane's off-the-cuff comments. Further, Sharp was an "A", what does he have to say (likely, something similar to Hossa's statement). Something I read a bit ago about the Rocky/McD dynamic was that McD would insulate Rocky and tell him something like 5% of what's actually happening. Now, call it plausible deniability or not but ultimately I think unless new information comes to light, McD is the place where the buck stops. He was in that meeting and he could have definitely got a proper investigation going unilaterally and unilaterally separated Aldrich and Beach--be it sexual assault or sexual harassment. Like I said: Behind Aldrich and Gary, he's the most culpable character in this fiasco. You missed this yesterday then....... www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/blackhawks-captain-jonathan-toews-offers-clearer-support-kyle-beach/It might not be as contrite as some want and that suits me just fine! Captain/face of the franchise......21 none the less,Johnny Madden was a long tenured veteran,Big Hoss was a long tenured superstar,Keith and Seabs were older like you said and holier than thou Sopel and Boynton were all told the same thing and all did the same thing back then regardless of what is said today.....NOTHING.........among MANY other players and assistant coaches. Some rendition of 'we didn't know how serious the allegations were back then and management assured us it was being handled' still works for everyone not named Quenneville,Toews or Kane for some reason and any mention of sanctions against Toews are absurd IMO! Didn't see that, so Toews is good.
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Nov 4, 2021 13:16:20 GMT -6
You missed this yesterday then....... www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/blackhawks-captain-jonathan-toews-offers-clearer-support-kyle-beach/It might not be as contrite as some want and that suits me just fine! Captain/face of the franchise......21 none the less,Johnny Madden was a long tenured veteran,Big Hoss was a long tenured superstar,Keith and Seabs were older like you said and holier than thou Sopel and Boynton were all told the same thing and all did the same thing back then regardless of what is said today.....NOTHING.........among MANY other players and assistant coaches. Some rendition of 'we didn't know how serious the allegations were back then and management assured us it was being handled' still works for everyone not named Quenneville,Toews or Kane for some reason and any mention of sanctions against Toews are absurd IMO! beat me to it, Bob. I agree 100%. on the Sopel note, he is adamant that Rocky didnt know.... seems odd to me that he goes out of his way to throw his teammates under the bus and defend Wirtz... I lost all respect for Sopel. He cried that Crawford kicked him in the lower back when he was sitting on the bench yet he blocked a lot of shots over his career and now he's not taking any responsibility for the Beach incident and throwing out names yet protects Wirtz. I guess this turned into another thread regarding Beach and all the accusations
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Post by squishy24 on Nov 4, 2021 14:24:34 GMT -6
thats the first and biggest mistake the Hawks organization did back then. Instead of investigating and finding out the truth, they chose to sweep it under a rug, told everyone to keep quiet and hope that it goes away. lo and behold ten years later it rears it's ugly head back and now have done so much more damage than it should've a decade ago.
If they initially investigated this back then, maybe they might find out that its not a big deal, or maybe Beach is lying, or maybe we would have known for sure what really happened. Not ten years later when everyone's memory is confusing and details are lost.
fast forward to now, regardless of who is right, or whos responsible or what really happened - all are irrelevant, at the end the Hawks management looks terribly bad and anyone defending them (even rightfully so) is "bad" by association.
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Post by T-man2010 on Nov 4, 2021 14:41:07 GMT -6
thats the first and biggest mistake the Hawks organization did back then. Instead of investigating and finding out the truth, they chose to sweep it under a rug, told everyone to keep quiet and hope that it goes away. lo and behold ten years later it rears it's ugly head back and now have done so much more damage than it should've a decade ago. If they initially investigated this back then, maybe they might find out that its not a big deal, or maybe Beach is lying, or maybe we would have known for sure what really happened. Not ten years later when everyone's memory is confusing and details are lost. fast forward to now, regardless of who is right, or whos responsible or what really happened - all are irrelevant, at the end the Hawks management looks terribly bad and anyone defending them (even rightfully so) is "bad" by association. I think what they did was fire the pervert and then gave Beach another contract for 4 years. Basically they bought Beach and paid him off. Beach had another chance to I guess prove himself when the perv was arrested in Michigan 3 years later in 2013. That would have also been an ideal time for him to help himself.
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Post by LordKOTL on Nov 4, 2021 17:49:42 GMT -6
I don’t disagree M’Lord. I just think the witch hunt has gone much too far. Because they refuse to really lay into Rockwell. And McD is no where to be found or be blamed. They have to sack someone else. Just sickening!!! While I think there shouldn't be more for the 'hawks, I hope it's not done yet. There was news an investigation against the penguins, and now news that the NHLPA will have an investigation on how it handeled the Beach scenario, voted on by the NHLPA. The best thing the Hockey en masse can do is to keep that going and get the proven beyond a reasonable doubt sexual assaulters and those that cover it up out of hockey for good. That was scenarios like Beach's and Theo Fleury's (among others) are less likely to happen again.
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Post by BigT on Nov 4, 2021 18:35:34 GMT -6
I don’t disagree M’Lord. I just think the witch hunt has gone much too far. Because they refuse to really lay into Rockwell. And McD is no where to be found or be blamed. They have to sack someone else. Just sickening!!! While I think there shouldn't be more for the 'hawks, I hope it's not done yet. There was news an investigation against the penguins, and now news that the NHLPA will have an investigation on how it handeled the Beach scenario, voted on by the NHLPA. The best thing the Hockey en masse can do is to keep that going and get the proven beyond a reasonable doubt sexual assaulters and those that cover it up out of hockey for good. That was scenarios like Beach's and Theo Fleury's (among others) are less likely to happen again. Beach’s kinda sucks. If he’s part of the problem, then it’s hard to call it a problem. As for Fleury and Kennedy etc. Yes. We should fuckin drag that bastard behind my 396 Hemi with 440 hp and drag that bitch to the end of the earth. Or any other pricks like that. I’ll gladly spend the gas money. Graham James should’ve been killed in Mexico where he escaped to. I hope he gets raped with insanity peppers 🌶 in a Mexican prison!!!
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Post by hsbob on Nov 5, 2021 8:31:47 GMT -6
beat me to it, Bob. I agree 100%. on the Sopel note, he is adamant that Rocky didnt know.... seems odd to me that he goes out of his way to throw his teammates under the bus and defend Wirtz... I lost all respect for Sopel. He cried that Crawford kicked him in the lower back when he was sitting on the bench yet he blocked a lot of shots over his career and now he's not taking any responsibility for the Beach incident and throwing out names yet protects Wirtz. I guess this turned into another thread regarding Beach and all the accusations And I guess Sopel's okay with the guy who kicked him who's still on the staff and within kickin' distance of other players. I'm not saying Crawford should or shouldn't still be behind a bench,especially a bench in the spotlight like the Hawks is but I am surprised the media isn't bringing it up for the optic alone.
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Post by bigbarn27 on Nov 5, 2021 9:18:26 GMT -6
You missed this yesterday then....... www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/blackhawks-captain-jonathan-toews-offers-clearer-support-kyle-beach/It might not be as contrite as some want and that suits me just fine! Captain/face of the franchise......21 none the less,Johnny Madden was a long tenured veteran,Big Hoss was a long tenured superstar,Keith and Seabs were older like you said and holier than thou Sopel and Boynton were all told the same thing and all did the same thing back then regardless of what is said today.....NOTHING.........among MANY other players and assistant coaches. Some rendition of 'we didn't know how serious the allegations were back then and management assured us it was being handled' still works for everyone not named Quenneville,Toews or Kane for some reason and any mention of sanctions against Toews are absurd IMO! beat me to it, Bob. I agree 100%. on the Sopel note, he is adamant that Rocky didnt know.... seems odd to me that he goes out of his way to throw his teammates under the bus and defend Wirtz... He was paid nicely by them for I think 3 years after playing. On TV could have said something then.
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Post by LordKOTL on Nov 5, 2021 11:55:19 GMT -6
While I think there shouldn't be more for the 'hawks, I hope it's not done yet. There was news an investigation against the penguins, and now news that the NHLPA will have an investigation on how it handeled the Beach scenario, voted on by the NHLPA. The best thing the Hockey en masse can do is to keep that going and get the proven beyond a reasonable doubt sexual assaulters and those that cover it up out of hockey for good. That was scenarios like Beach's and Theo Fleury's (among others) are less likely to happen again. Beach’s kinda sucks. If he’s part of the problem, then it’s hard to call it a problem. As for Fleury and Kennedy etc. Yes. We should fuckin drag that bastard behind my 396 Hemi with 440 hp and drag that bitch to the end of the earth. Or any other pricks like that. I’ll gladly spend the gas money. Graham James should’ve been killed in Mexico where he escaped to. I hope he gets raped with insanity peppers 🌶 in a Mexican prison!!! Irrespective of who he was as a person or a player, Beach had his outcry of sexual assault effectively ignored. That is most certainly a huge problem!
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Post by BigT on Nov 10, 2021 19:18:20 GMT -6
Maybe not exactly news pertaining to thy Hawk. However Pitt settled their lawsuit with Skalde. Probably smart on their behalf to get this the hell out of the way.
Andddddddd what the hell did Bob Murray do? He just resigned from Anaheim. Something is going on and all I heard was it was some type of harassment. But that’s the way she goes!!!
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Post by vonbeck on Nov 10, 2021 19:21:58 GMT -6
Maybe not exactly news pertaining to thy Hawk. However Pitt settled their lawsuit with Skalde. Probably smart on their behalf to get this the hell out of the way. Andddddddd what the hell did Bob Murray do? He just resigned from Anaheim. Something is going on and all I heard was it was some type of harassment. But that’s the way she goes!!! Yeah just read that too. WFT. No real info but here ya go... www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/32601417/anaheim-ducks-general-manager-bob-murray-resigns-enroll-alcohol-abuse-programNothing really to do with the Hawks, but still an ex-Hawk..
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Post by T-man2010 on Nov 10, 2021 20:27:55 GMT -6
Maybe not exactly news pertaining to thy Hawk. However Pitt settled their lawsuit with Skalde. Probably smart on their behalf to get this the hell out of the way. Andddddddd what the hell did Bob Murray do? He just resigned from Anaheim. Something is going on and all I heard was it was some type of harassment. But that’s the way she goes!!! Guess he was a verbal abuser at his staff and players. Bad drunk as any old time hockey should be.
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Post by BigT on Nov 10, 2021 21:03:37 GMT -6
Maybe not exactly news pertaining to thy Hawk. However Pitt settled their lawsuit with Skalde. Probably smart on their behalf to get this the hell out of the way. Andddddddd what the hell did Bob Murray do? He just resigned from Anaheim. Something is going on and all I heard was it was some type of harassment. But that’s the way she goes!!! Guess he was a verbal abuser at his staff and players. Bad drunk as any old time hockey should be. I’ve heard many people say he was always grumpy or a curmudgeon. It’s just who he is. Brian Burke is the same type way. Torts, etc. People cannot handle much these days. I’m not saying he was a dream to be around. But guys like him make you much more tougher. We’ve all worked with some dick that got under your skin. But they’re just part of growing up and dealing with shit!!!
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Post by T-man2010 on Nov 10, 2021 21:23:22 GMT -6
Guess he was a verbal abuser at his staff and players. Bad drunk as any old time hockey should be. I’ve heard many people say he was always grumpy or a curmudgeon. It’s just who he is. Brian Burke is the same type way. Torts, etc. People cannot handle much these days. I’m not saying he was a dream to be around. But guys like him make you much more tougher. We’ve all worked with some dick that got under your skin. But they’re just part of growing up and dealing with shit!!! The future of hockey.
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Post by vonbeck on Nov 10, 2021 21:44:35 GMT -6
I’ve heard many people say he was always grumpy or a curmudgeon. It’s just who he is. Brian Burke is the same type way. Torts, etc. People cannot handle much these days. I’m not saying he was a dream to be around. But guys like him make you much more tougher. We’ve all worked with some dick that got under your skin. But they’re just part of growing up and dealing with shit!!! The future of hockey. Hilarious!
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Post by BigT on Nov 11, 2021 6:35:55 GMT -6
Back to the Hawks shtuff.
I seen an interview with John Doe 2’s mom. Well, it was just a voice interview. That was heartbreaking. Rick Westhead did that too. The kid was 16 and went through a lot because of it. He got made fun of at school. Girls didn’t want to be around him etc. I guess he has a lot of mental issues and drug problems. All his mother really wanted for him is health insurance so he can get all the help he needs. I hope he gets a lot more than that. I think a solid million or 2 will help the kid get straightened out. This one really sucks to hear!!!
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Post by LordKOTL on Nov 11, 2021 8:59:31 GMT -6
Back to the Hawks shtuff. I seen an interview with John Doe 2’s mom. Well, it was just a voice interview. That was heartbreaking. Rick Westhead did that too. The kid was 16 and went through a lot because of it. He got made fun of at school. Girls didn’t want to be around him etc. I guess he has a lot of mental issues and drug problems. All his mother really wanted for him is health insurance so he can get all the help he needs. I hope he gets a lot more than that. I think a solid million or 2 will help the kid get straightened out. This one really sucks to hear!!! That's why stuff like this needs to be taken seriously. Irrespective of the person making the outcry, the allegations need to be properly and promptly investigated, and once the facts are in place the situation dealt with based on what the facts actually are. I think it's smart for everyone to understand that escalation is a real thing. i.e If a coach flashes their johnson sexually at player(s), there is a significant likelihood that they will start to do worse things if given the opportunity.
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