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Post by vadarx on Jan 23, 2023 16:57:30 GMT -6
Tyler Johnson injured? There goes the iron-man streak!LOL! What's five million between friends? With Tinordi due back soon,maybe they'll be no young D-men in the lineup making young D-mam mistakes..........more vets for the rebuild. hey, at least we got a 2nd rounder along with his deal... if his ass could ever stay healthy, we might be able to get another one for him at a trade deadline... |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jan 23, 2023 18:18:08 GMT -6
You guys know more then me.....are Phillips and Mitchell, along with Korchinski the next generation Keith, Seabrook, and Hammer? We won't know for awhile. Keith took a couple of years at the NHL level to ripen. Korch hasn't played at all at the NHL. Issak and Mitchell are so green they need mowing. Keith was awesome all-around, ditto with Seabs. Hjammer was a D-master. I'm not sure yet if we could crown any of them as a direct replacement: In fact, the only guy i got as a "replacement" is Seth Jones--he's like a 1st go Campbell (just without the ability to strike fear into RJ Umberger's heart). As such, if there is a Hjammer in the pipeline, we should be getting those two to play together (and Murph ain't it). Mitchell is better at blocking shots. Isaak hits more and takes the puck away more. They are about the same on O. Honestly, if I was a betting man (and I only gamble as to whether or not it's a fart), I would say they both are most likely to be a solid mid-pair, together. Depends on how their backend game goes and how much they develop on the PK. The jury is still massively out for Korch. He is about Keith's size. I think the real question is whether or not he becomes good in all 3 zones at the NHL level or not. I think it might have to depend on some of our bigger kids, like Allen, Rinzel, Del Maestro, etc. if they put on some weight if they could be something of a Seabrook--depending on their skill, of course. Personally, I think the chips will lie as they lie and we might not have a direct comparison. For all we know the stay-at-home guys is someone bigger and less Hjammer. For all we know one of the larger guys becomes the good everywhere Keith type. Who knows. But, I do think that the best we can do is see how these kids progress and it probably won't be that quick. It might take a couple years NHL-level evaluation to be sure--and it could be that no one we got hits. I mean, on paper Barker was supposed to be better than he was. There was a reason Babchuk was taken before Keith, in spite of their career outcomes. How deep was Hjammer taken? Even in the FWD segment Clendening, Danault, and McNeill all went before Saad. As I mentioned before I think at the position he was picked Korch is probably where he should be. He could hit, he could miss. I don't think he is much of a reach or a project where he was drafted, nor has he been rushed, so I think KD is handling him at least acceptably so far. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Jan 23, 2023 18:39:58 GMT -6
Tyler Johnson injured? There goes the iron-man streak!LOL! What's five million between friends? With Tinordi due back soon,maybe they'll be no young D-men in the lineup making young D-mam mistakes..........more vets for the rebuild. Are you kidding me, he is out again? What is it this time? Maybe it's just a fashion boot he's wearing. Is it trimmed in mink? |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jan 23, 2023 19:20:07 GMT -6
You guys know more then me.....are Phillips and Mitchell, along with Korchinski the next generation Keith, Seabrook, and Hammer? We won't know for awhile. Keith took a couple of years at the NHL level to ripen. Korch hasn't played at all at the NHL. Issak and Mitchell are so green they need mowing. Keith was awesome all-around, ditto with Seabs. Hjammer was a D-master. I'm not sure yet if we could crown any of them as a direct replacement: In fact, the only guy i got as a "replacement" is Seth Jones--he's like a 1st go Campbell (just without the ability to strike fear into RJ Umberger's heart). As such, if there is a Hjammer in the pipeline, we should be getting those two to play together (and Murph ain't it). Mitchell is better at blocking shots. Isaak hits more and takes the puck away more. They are about the same on O. Honestly, if I was a betting man (and I only gamble as to whether or not it's a fart), I would say they both are most likely to be a solid mid-pair, together. Depends on how their backend game goes and how much they develop on the PK. The jury is still massively out for Korch. He is about Keith's size. I think the real question is whether or not he becomes good in all 3 zones at the NHL level or not. I think it might have to depend on some of our bigger kids, like Allen, Rinzel, Del Maestro, etc. if they put on some weight if they could be something of a Seabrook--depending on their skill, of course. Personally, I think the chips will lie as they lie and we might not have a direct comparison. For all we know the stay-at-home guys is someone bigger and less Hjammer. For all we know one of the larger guys becomes the good everywhere Keith type. Who knows. But, I do think that the best we can do is see how these kids progress and it probably won't be that quick. It might take a couple years NHL-level evaluation to be sure--and it could be that no one we got hits. I mean, on paper Barker was supposed to be better than he was. There was a reason Babchuk was taken before Keith, in spite of their career outcomes. How deep was Hjammer taken? Even in the FWD segment Clendening, Danault, and McNeill all went before Saad. As I mentioned before I think at the position he was picked Korch is probably where he should be. He could hit, he could miss. I don't think he is much of a reach or a project where he was drafted, nor has he been rushed, so I think KD is handling him at least acceptably so far. Korch is not Keiths size, he's 6'3" 191lbs. And Keith looked bad when he first played in the NHL, Seabs taught him a lot. And you mentioned Clendening in the forward group, he's a dman, so everything you mentioned should be taken with a grain of salt. As for a Hammer type in the system, two guys that played for Canada could possibly fill that role, Ethan Del Mastro and Allan. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jan 23, 2023 21:14:56 GMT -6
We won't know for awhile. Keith took a couple of years at the NHL level to ripen. Korch hasn't played at all at the NHL. Issak and Mitchell are so green they need mowing. Keith was awesome all-around, ditto with Seabs. Hjammer was a D-master. I'm not sure yet if we could crown any of them as a direct replacement: In fact, the only guy i got as a "replacement" is Seth Jones--he's like a 1st go Campbell (just without the ability to strike fear into RJ Umberger's heart). As such, if there is a Hjammer in the pipeline, we should be getting those two to play together (and Murph ain't it). Mitchell is better at blocking shots. Isaak hits more and takes the puck away more. They are about the same on O. Honestly, if I was a betting man (and I only gamble as to whether or not it's a fart), I would say they both are most likely to be a solid mid-pair, together. Depends on how their backend game goes and how much they develop on the PK. The jury is still massively out for Korch. He is about Keith's size. I think the real question is whether or not he becomes good in all 3 zones at the NHL level or not. I think it might have to depend on some of our bigger kids, like Allen, Rinzel, Del Maestro, etc. if they put on some weight if they could be something of a Seabrook--depending on their skill, of course. Personally, I think the chips will lie as they lie and we might not have a direct comparison. For all we know the stay-at-home guys is someone bigger and less Hjammer. For all we know one of the larger guys becomes the good everywhere Keith type. Who knows. But, I do think that the best we can do is see how these kids progress and it probably won't be that quick. It might take a couple years NHL-level evaluation to be sure--and it could be that no one we got hits. I mean, on paper Barker was supposed to be better than he was. There was a reason Babchuk was taken before Keith, in spite of their career outcomes. How deep was Hjammer taken? Even in the FWD segment Clendening, Danault, and McNeill all went before Saad. As I mentioned before I think at the position he was picked Korch is probably where he should be. He could hit, he could miss. I don't think he is much of a reach or a project where he was drafted, nor has he been rushed, so I think KD is handling him at least acceptably so far. Korch is not Keiths size, he's 6'3" 191lbs. And Keith looked bad when he first played in the NHL, Seabs taught him a lot. And you mentioned Clendening in the forward group, he's a dman, so everything you mentioned should be taken with a grain of salt. As for a Hammer type in the system, two guys that played for Canada could possibly fill that role, Ethan Del Mastro and Allan. According to Elite Prospects, they had him listed at 6-1. That's about Keith's size. My point was that guys who are taken early might not necessarily be the best after things pan out. We just don't know enough about where anyone stands yet in our D-core. It's either Seth Jones, Unproven prospects, or replaceable vets. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jan 23, 2023 23:31:27 GMT -6
Korch is not Keiths size, he's 6'3" 191lbs. And Keith looked bad when he first played in the NHL, Seabs taught him a lot. And you mentioned Clendening in the forward group, he's a dman, so everything you mentioned should be taken with a grain of salt. As for a Hammer type in the system, two guys that played for Canada could possibly fill that role, Ethan Del Mastro and Allan. According to Elite Prospects, they had him listed at 6-1. That's about Keith's size. My point was that guys who are taken early might not necessarily be the best after things pan out. We just don't know enough about where anyone stands yet in our D-core. It's either Seth Jones, Unproven prospects, or replaceable vets. But guys taken in the top10 have better odds of making it than someone drafted in other rounds. No we don't know where any of these kids stand yet but Korchinski looked great in the preseason and could've made the Hawks this year. And on draft day they, TSN, said he went from 5'10" to 6'2" before his draft year and Seattle and team Canada have him listed at 6'3". If you watched him play for Canada or watch any of his highlights in the WHL you'd see he's a big kid. When Keith started in the NHL he was maybe 170lbs soaking wet and 6'1" was generous, I remember a skinny little kid who had fast feet but he was very choppy. He obviously got stronger and learned a lot from Seabs. |
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Post by hsbob on Jan 24, 2023 10:21:03 GMT -6
Tyler Johnson injured? There goes the iron-man streak!LOL! What's five million between friends? With Tinordi due back soon,maybe they'll be no young D-men in the lineup making young D-mam mistakes..........more vets for the rebuild. hey, at least we got a 2nd rounder along with his deal... if his ass could ever stay healthy, we might be able to get another one for him at a trade deadline... TB was able to shed his 5MX3 for only a 2nd and they seem to have no problem burying Seabs' LTIR money and they're as tight against the cap as any team. I guess in the bigger scheme of things,a 2nd in this deep draft IS needed and cap-space? Gotta pay somebody. |
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Post by hsbob on Jan 24, 2023 10:53:26 GMT -6
You guys know more then me.....are Phillips and Mitchell, along with Korchinski the next generation Keith, Seabrook, and Hammer? We won't know for awhile. Keith took a couple of years at the NHL level to ripen. Korch hasn't played at all at the NHL. Issak and Mitchell are so green they need mowing. Keith was awesome all-around, ditto with Seabs. Hjammer was a D-master. I'm not sure yet if we could crown any of them as a direct replacement: In fact, the only guy i got as a "replacement" is Seth Jones--he's like a 1st go Campbell (just without the ability to strike fear into RJ Umberger's heart). As such, if there is a Hjammer in the pipeline, we should be getting those two to play together (and Murph ain't it). Mitchell is better at blocking shots. Isaak hits more and takes the puck away more. They are about the same on O. Honestly, if I was a betting man (and I only gamble as to whether or not it's a fart), I would say they both are most likely to be a solid mid-pair, together. Depends on how their backend game goes and how much they develop on the PK. The jury is still massively out for Korch. He is about Keith's size. I think the real question is whether or not he becomes good in all 3 zones at the NHL level or not. I think it might have to depend on some of our bigger kids, like Allen, Rinzel, Del Maestro, etc. if they put on some weight if they could be something of a Seabrook--depending on their skill, of course. Personally, I think the chips will lie as they lie and we might not have a direct comparison. For all we know the stay-at-home guys is someone bigger and less Hjammer. For all we know one of the larger guys becomes the good everywhere Keith type. Who knows. But, I do think that the best we can do is see how these kids progress and it probably won't be that quick. It might take a couple years NHL-level evaluation to be sure--and it could be that no one we got hits. I mean, on paper Barker was supposed to be better than he was. There was a reason Babchuk was taken before Keith, in spite of their career outcomes. How deep was Hjammer taken? Even in the FWD segment Clendening, Danault, and McNeill all went before Saad. As I mentioned before I think at the position he was picked Korch is probably where he should be. He could hit, he could miss. I don't think he is much of a reach or a project where he was drafted, nor has he been rushed, so I think KD is handling him at least acceptably so far. I think S Jones' reach advantage gives him the nod in his own end and 'Soupy' was a bit more fleet-o-foot but good comparison other than that. Comparing any prospect to Hammer is problematic for me because,like Big Hoss,he possessed natural defensive instincts that few have and I'm not sure can be taught. I'm not saying their physical skills weren't also elite,especially Hossa but the way Hammer broke-up plays and the way Big Hoss just took the puck away from guys........it was like they F'ing KNEW what an opponent was gonna do! JT too,along with producin' offense and winnin' draws. I've been pretty mum on the prospects but I don't think two legit starters out of Phillips,Vlasic and Regula is a big stretch......how good.....who knows yet. The 20 and under D-pool is also a lot more promising and bigger than it's been in years........I promise....LOL! JK! I'm not sure two more legit starters out of them is a big stretch either. We don't know how good yet either but we might even see additions to that group and there's strength in numbers. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jan 24, 2023 11:32:17 GMT -6
We won't know for awhile. Keith took a couple of years at the NHL level to ripen. Korch hasn't played at all at the NHL. Issak and Mitchell are so green they need mowing. Keith was awesome all-around, ditto with Seabs. Hjammer was a D-master. I'm not sure yet if we could crown any of them as a direct replacement: In fact, the only guy i got as a "replacement" is Seth Jones--he's like a 1st go Campbell (just without the ability to strike fear into RJ Umberger's heart). As such, if there is a Hjammer in the pipeline, we should be getting those two to play together (and Murph ain't it). Mitchell is better at blocking shots. Isaak hits more and takes the puck away more. They are about the same on O. Honestly, if I was a betting man (and I only gamble as to whether or not it's a fart), I would say they both are most likely to be a solid mid-pair, together. Depends on how their backend game goes and how much they develop on the PK. The jury is still massively out for Korch. He is about Keith's size. I think the real question is whether or not he becomes good in all 3 zones at the NHL level or not. I think it might have to depend on some of our bigger kids, like Allen, Rinzel, Del Maestro, etc. if they put on some weight if they could be something of a Seabrook--depending on their skill, of course. Personally, I think the chips will lie as they lie and we might not have a direct comparison. For all we know the stay-at-home guys is someone bigger and less Hjammer. For all we know one of the larger guys becomes the good everywhere Keith type. Who knows. But, I do think that the best we can do is see how these kids progress and it probably won't be that quick. It might take a couple years NHL-level evaluation to be sure--and it could be that no one we got hits. I mean, on paper Barker was supposed to be better than he was. There was a reason Babchuk was taken before Keith, in spite of their career outcomes. How deep was Hjammer taken? Even in the FWD segment Clendening, Danault, and McNeill all went before Saad. As I mentioned before I think at the position he was picked Korch is probably where he should be. He could hit, he could miss. I don't think he is much of a reach or a project where he was drafted, nor has he been rushed, so I think KD is handling him at least acceptably so far. I think S Jones' reach advantage gives him the nod in his own end and 'Soupy' was a bit more fleet-o-foot but good comparison other than that. Comparing any prospect to Hammer is problematic for me because,like Big Hoss,he possessed natural defensive instincts that few have and I'm not sure can be taught. I'm not saying their physical skills weren't also elite,especially Hossa but the way Hammer broke-up plays and the way Big Hoss just took the puck away from guys........it was like they F'ing KNEW what an opponent was gonna do! JT too,alog with producin' offense and winnin' draws. I've been pretty mum on the prospects but I don't think two legit starters out of Phillips,Vlasic and Regula is a big stretch......how good.....who knows yet. The 20 and under D-pool is also a lot more promising and bigger than it's been in years........I promise....LOL! JK! I'm not sure two more legit starters out of them is a big stretch either. We don't know how good yet either but we might even see additions to that group and there's strength in numbers. Just like Hjalmarsson, Del Mastro was a 4th rounder, and there's a reason the Steelheads named him captain and Canada gave him an A and top2 minutes, he gets it and he's great in his own end, very similar to Hjalmarsson. Time will tell but he's the most promising to fill that shutdown role. And Allan is a first rounder with great skating, good size, and really smart defensively. With those 2 and Vlasic, there's a good chance at least 1 emerges as a Hjalmarsson type. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jan 24, 2023 13:35:42 GMT -6
I have to give credit to Trent Yawney for the development of Seabs, Keith, Hammer and Buff.
They were all coached in Norfolk Admirals in the AHL and Rockford together.
Then they all 4 had Trent as the Hawks coach for 1 1/2 half years before Savard took over.
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Post by LordKOTL on Jan 24, 2023 15:18:17 GMT -6
We won't know for awhile. Keith took a couple of years at the NHL level to ripen. Korch hasn't played at all at the NHL. Issak and Mitchell are so green they need mowing. Keith was awesome all-around, ditto with Seabs. Hjammer was a D-master. I'm not sure yet if we could crown any of them as a direct replacement: In fact, the only guy i got as a "replacement" is Seth Jones--he's like a 1st go Campbell (just without the ability to strike fear into RJ Umberger's heart). As such, if there is a Hjammer in the pipeline, we should be getting those two to play together (and Murph ain't it). Mitchell is better at blocking shots. Isaak hits more and takes the puck away more. They are about the same on O. Honestly, if I was a betting man (and I only gamble as to whether or not it's a fart), I would say they both are most likely to be a solid mid-pair, together. Depends on how their backend game goes and how much they develop on the PK. The jury is still massively out for Korch. He is about Keith's size. I think the real question is whether or not he becomes good in all 3 zones at the NHL level or not. I think it might have to depend on some of our bigger kids, like Allen, Rinzel, Del Maestro, etc. if they put on some weight if they could be something of a Seabrook--depending on their skill, of course. Personally, I think the chips will lie as they lie and we might not have a direct comparison. For all we know the stay-at-home guys is someone bigger and less Hjammer. For all we know one of the larger guys becomes the good everywhere Keith type. Who knows. But, I do think that the best we can do is see how these kids progress and it probably won't be that quick. It might take a couple years NHL-level evaluation to be sure--and it could be that no one we got hits. I mean, on paper Barker was supposed to be better than he was. There was a reason Babchuk was taken before Keith, in spite of their career outcomes. How deep was Hjammer taken? Even in the FWD segment Clendening, Danault, and McNeill all went before Saad. As I mentioned before I think at the position he was picked Korch is probably where he should be. He could hit, he could miss. I don't think he is much of a reach or a project where he was drafted, nor has he been rushed, so I think KD is handling him at least acceptably so far. I think S Jones' reach advantage gives him the nod in his own end and 'Soupy' was a bit more fleet-o-foot but good comparison other than that. Comparing any prospect to Hammer is problematic for me because,like Big Hoss,he possessed natural defensive instincts that few have and I'm not sure can be taught. I'm not saying their physical skills weren't also elite,especially Hossa but the way Hammer broke-up plays and the way Big Hoss just took the puck away from guys........it was like they F'ing KNEW what an opponent was gonna do! JT too,alog with producin' offense and winnin' draws. I've been pretty mum on the prospects but I don't think two legit starters out of Phillips,Vlasic and Regula is a big stretch......how good.....who knows yet. The 20 and under D-pool is also a lot more promising and bigger than it's been in years........I promise....LOL! JK! I'm not sure two more legit starters out of them is a big stretch either. We don't know how good yet either but we might even see additions to that group and there's strength in numbers. We don't know the "how good", and that's what I get hung up on because if we don't have the D, we'll need excellence elsewhere to make up for it, and we might not have that. Like, if we imagine a team where Soupy and Hjammer are your 1/2 (and I think they would have been a 1/2 if Keith and Seabs weren't here), it would put much more on the FWDs and goaltending, or on the 3-6 guys. Other than that I agree, Hjammer was a special case and we were damned luck to have him. |
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Post by hsbob on Jan 25, 2023 9:48:09 GMT -6
I think S Jones' reach advantage gives him the nod in his own end and 'Soupy' was a bit more fleet-o-foot but good comparison other than that. Comparing any prospect to Hammer is problematic for me because,like Big Hoss,he possessed natural defensive instincts that few have and I'm not sure can be taught. I'm not saying their physical skills weren't also elite,especially Hossa but the way Hammer broke-up plays and the way Big Hoss just took the puck away from guys........it was like they F'ing KNEW what an opponent was gonna do! JT too,alog with producin' offense and winnin' draws. I've been pretty mum on the prospects but I don't think two legit starters out of Phillips,Vlasic and Regula is a big stretch......how good.....who knows yet. The 20 and under D-pool is also a lot more promising and bigger than it's been in years........I promise....LOL! JK! I'm not sure two more legit starters out of them is a big stretch either. We don't know how good yet either but we might even see additions to that group and there's strength in numbers. We don't know the "how good", and that's what I get hung up on because if we don't have the D, we'll need excellence elsewhere to make up for it, and we might not have that. Like, if we imagine a team where Soupy and Hjammer are your 1/2 (and I think they would have been a 1/2 if Keith and Seabs weren't here), it would put much more on the FWDs and goaltending, or on the 3-6 guys. Other than that I agree, Hjammer was a special case and we were damned luck to have him. Watching the type of defensive player like Hammer or Big Hoss was such and enjoyment and both somehow got even better in the PO's against better players. Other than maybe a dinged-up season or two,Hossa was easily a top three defensive forward every year,while averaging 33 goals per.........as rare as 'hen's teeth'! Big Hoss had world class skills like skating,agility,strehgth and OH......those sweet hands,to go along with God given defensive instincts,but Hammer relied more on his instincts like never being out of position to block a shot or just break-up a play. Hammer's hip-y skating style was adequate due to the rest of his defensive play but if our boy was a SMOOOOTH skater,he probably puts up big offense too and might have been an annual Norris candidate. Since we already had one of those,Hammr might have been the perfect D-man for the Hawks' success. A guy I love watching these days is Danault,he routinely F's up opponent's plays through the neutral zone and more so in his own end. Get a stick on that 'sweet dish' across to a wide-open winger and deflect it out of play and the only damage is a FO......he wins those too. LA was a lottery team when he got there and they've been a PO team since with basically the same roster with the exception of Fiala's signing last summer,the Kings will never regret that 5.5MX6 they spent on Danault! |
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Post by jacksalmon on Jan 25, 2023 10:58:07 GMT -6
We don't know the "how good", and that's what I get hung up on because if we don't have the D, we'll need excellence elsewhere to make up for it, and we might not have that. Like, if we imagine a team where Soupy and Hjammer are your 1/2 (and I think they would have been a 1/2 if Keith and Seabs weren't here), it would put much more on the FWDs and goaltending, or on the 3-6 guys. Other than that I agree, Hjammer was a special case and we were damned luck to have him. Watching the type of defensive player like Hammer or Big Hoss was such and enjoyment and both somehow got even better in the PO's against better players. Other than maybe a dinged-up season or two,Hossa was easily a top three defensive forward every year,while averaging 33 goals per.........as rare as 'hen's teeth'! Big Hoss had world class skills like skating,agility,strehgth and OH......those sweet hands,to go along with God given defensive instincts,but Hammer relied more on his instincts like never being out of position to block a shot or just break-up a play. Hammer's hip-y skating style was adequate due to the rest of his defensive play but if our boy was a SMOOOOTH skater,he probably puts up big offense too and might have been an annual Norris candidate. Since we already had one of those,Hammr might have been the perfect D-man for the Hawks' success. A guy I love watching these days is Danault,he routinely F's up opponent's plays through the neutral zone and more so in his own end. Get a stick on that 'sweet dish' across to a wide-open winger and deflect it out of play and the only damage is a FO......he wins those too. LA was a lottery team when he got there and they've been a PO team since with basically the same roster with the exception of Fiala's signing last summer,the Kings will never regret that 5.5MX6 they spent on Danault! Just goes to show what a good FO can do for a team. They get Danault, the Hawks get Tyler Johnson for the same money. |
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