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Post by mvr on Apr 4, 2022 13:26:41 GMT -6
Dylan Strome's next contract is due this summer. Alex Debrincat has a year left.
Since the start of January, Strome and Debrincat have played together with Patrick Kane. The line has been very strong offensively, with all three players producing at a point a game plus pace.
I believe it is now time to break that line up.
Let's see how Strome and Debrincat manage without Kane. This is a lost season, regardless. Decisions need to be made this summer. Do the Hawks keep Strome? Do they keep Debrincat? How much do they pay them? For how long?
Strome's trade value is not going to increase much between now and the end of the year. Either will Debrincat's. There is no value to the organization in having these players pad their stats playing with Patrick Kane only to use these numbers as leverage when negotiating the next contract.
if Debrincat and Strome are talented enough to maintain their present scoring stats without Kane, they will be worth resigning rather than trading away. But the only way to find out is to separate them now from Kane.
Play Kane with Toews and Dach. Play Debrincat with Strome and Raddysh. Let's see what happens.
My guess: Toews and Dach start scoring every night. Strome and Debrincat go into a scoring funk.
Kane is the straw that does most of the stirring. It is time to find out before it is too late in the summer.
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Post by squishy24 on Apr 4, 2022 13:34:40 GMT -6
the Seabrook contract is the perfect example of what i was getting at. he chose to re-sign him, gets blamed for it, but if he didnt, hes responsible for that as well. whoever drafted Seabs at that point didnt matter. KD is approaching the same fork in the road with 19, 88 and Dcat. if he trades them all, thats his decision and no one else (blame/accolade that comes with it will be all his), but if he re-sign them and if from some impossible way won a cup with them, that should be all credited to him, right? not the person who drafted them. anyway, sorry, i guess i derailed your point/topic. back to it, Saad was also pretty good draft and develop. But yea, Bowman just went further downhill after the last cup. his draft and trade isnt a good record either. by the way, about Leddy, I think the way Bowman acquired him and got rid of him was good in my book. you lose Barker, and getting rid of him instead of any other player in the roster at the time was the best decision (they won a cup!). too bad the return didnt pan out. No need to be sorry Squishy, I think with some of our responses we sometimes forget what we responded to in the first place. My opinion Bowman is not a good talent evaluator as he has failed to produce any high-end talent in the draft except D-Cat and that is a record of 10+years. Sure Saad was a nice choice, great complementary player, but I would not consider him a difference maker or high end talent, my opinion. He had a chance with a gift in 2019 and choose Dach, hope he works out, but believe he will never be a franchisee dominant player. Some believe Bowman was a good talent evaluator and point to the fact that several of his 1st round picks are playing in the NHL. If that is the benchmark drafting players high and most of them no longer on the team no sure how you call that a successful GM. His trade record, I will be kind has been poor, sure he had a few nice moves, but overall not a lot to celebrate. Sure, Leddy for Barker was a good move, I am not 100% sure he was the GM at the time, could be wrong though and if so like I said good move and one of his better ones. i defend Bowman in some capacity, but you wouldnt catch me saying he's a good talent evaluator, especially on prospects. |
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Post by Nikos on Apr 4, 2022 15:07:56 GMT -6
Dylan Strome's next contract is due this summer. Alex Debrincat has a year left. Since the start of January, Strome and Debrincat have played together with Patrick Kane. The line has been very strong offensively, with all three players producing at a point a game plus pace. I believe it is now time to break that line up. Let's see how Strome and Debrincat manage without Kane. This is a lost season, regardless. Decisions need to be made this summer. Do the Hawks keep Strome? Do they keep Debrincat? How much do they pay them? For how long? Strome's trade value is not going to increase much between now and the end of the year. Either will Debrincat's. There is no value to the organization in having these players pad their stats playing with Patrick Kane only to use these numbers as leverage when negotiating the next contract. if Debrincat and Strome are talented enough to maintain their present scoring stats without Kane, they will be worth resigning rather than trading away. But the only way to find out is to separate them now from Kane. Play Kane with Toews and Dach. Play Debrincat with Strome and Raddysh. Let's see what happens. My guess: Toews and Dach start scoring every night. Strome and Debrincat go into a scoring funk. Kane is the straw that does most of the stirring. It is time to find out before it is too late in the summer. I would like to see Strome, Cat & Raddysh play together to see if any of the junior magic is there for a few games anyway. I am not sure Dach will light it up as he does not have the "snipe" or release skills that the Cat has and he tends to miss the net quite often. Not sure if he trying to be fine or what the issue is and if it is correctable. Some say he needs to slow the game down which would have helped if he spent some seasoning in the AHL. The Cat is a top goal scorer in this league and 88 knows how to set him up, but his quick release and ability to pick corners lead to many of those goals. Strome on the other hand is just playing better, maybe he is motivated in a contract year, he always saw the ice well, his FO% has improved and he is playing with confidence. Hell some of us playing with Kane could maybe pot 15-20 a year, he is a generational talent with elite hands, vision and hockey IQ. |
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Post by nighbor on Apr 4, 2022 15:13:54 GMT -6
I would say your evaluation of his record is off as he acquired some important pieces in the cup years in the offseason and at or near the TDL. Stan had some picks who are not with the team now but they are playing in the NHL and are productive. Schmaltz was traded for Strome and Perlini who was later traded for Regula who some day will be a regula on D. From 2010-2017 we were a cup favourite. On the other hand Pittsburgh went from raising the cup in 2009 until 2016 to get back to the cup final. Shaw was drafted in the 19 round of draft eligibility. Every team passed on Shaw in his first two years of eligibility including Talon and the Hawks and it took everybodys whipping boy Stan to pick him. Stan eventually traded Shaw to Montreal for a 2nd rounder and Stan used that pick to draft DeBrincat. You mention second rounds picks plus Shaw in round 5 but you forget the first rounders like TT Danault Schmaultz I did not mention them because they are no longer relevant. Most teams that are successful and for long period of times draft well, hit on their first round picks and those players usually are on the team and are difference makers. TT and Danualt were given away lets be honest and Schmaltz was a disappointment. All of them are good players, difference makers no. So far from 2010 until now with Bowman in charge no difference makers drafted in the FIRST ROUND and on the team. The Cat is only difference maker he drafted outside of the first round and on the team and likely will be traded due to no long term plan by the GM. If you believe one difference maker for 10+ years drafting and evaluating talent is a good record that is fine, I believe that is a low bar. Before we give him accolades/credit for trading some of those pieces the reason he had to was he had no plan and certainly lacked vision to sustain success, both short and long term. Yes, Pitsburgh had a stretch were they did not compete for the cup with 71 & 87 in the middle of their prime, but guess what they found a way, retooled and won back to back. The Hawks due to Bowman's mismanagement wasted some of 19 & 88 prime years and will not sniff another cup with them on the team. Come on he destroyed this team, any reasonable person will agree. I am not one of Stan's whipping boys and you are certainly entitled to your opinion in which you believe Bowman did a good job, his overall draft record on bringing in high end impact and difference making players, keeping and developing them says otherwise. How many difference makers do you think are in a draft year. In 8 of his 12 drafts Stan drafted 24th and higher because of team success. I consider the 2010 to 2015 Chicago cup teams to be among the great teams of the pre-cap era like Montreal the Islanders and Oilers and even they couldn't sustain success. Believe it or not but there are somthings the GM cannot control. The fact that the Cat a top three talent was past over 38 times is proof positive that Stan on that day and time was the smartest man in the room. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Apr 4, 2022 15:15:50 GMT -6
The is now the Bowman thread 🤦‍♂️
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Post by Nikos on Apr 4, 2022 15:41:54 GMT -6
I did not mention them because they are no longer relevant. Most teams that are successful and for long period of times draft well, hit on their first round picks and those players usually are on the team and are difference makers. TT and Danualt were given away lets be honest and Schmaltz was a disappointment. All of them are good players, difference makers no. So far from 2010 until now with Bowman in charge no difference makers drafted in the FIRST ROUND and on the team. The Cat is only difference maker he drafted outside of the first round and on the team and likely will be traded due to no long term plan by the GM. If you believe one difference maker for 10+ years drafting and evaluating talent is a good record that is fine, I believe that is a low bar. Before we give him accolades/credit for trading some of those pieces the reason he had to was he had no plan and certainly lacked vision to sustain success, both short and long term. Yes, Pitsburgh had a stretch were they did not compete for the cup with 71 & 87 in the middle of their prime, but guess what they found a way, retooled and won back to back. The Hawks due to Bowman's mismanagement wasted some of 19 & 88 prime years and will not sniff another cup with them on the team. Come on he destroyed this team, any reasonable person will agree. I am not one of Stan's whipping boys and you are certainly entitled to your opinion in which you believe Bowman did a good job, his overall draft record on bringing in high end impact and difference making players, keeping and developing them says otherwise. How many difference makers do you think are in a draft year. In 8 of his 12 drafts Stan drafted 24th and higher because of team success. I consider the 2010 to 2015 Chicago cup teams to be among the great teams of the pre-cap era like Montreal the Islanders and Oilers and even they couldn't sustain success. Believe it or not but there are somthings the GM cannot control. The fact that the Cat a top three talent was past over 38 times is proof positive that Stan on that day and time was the smartest man in the room. You need more than 1 to a have sustain success, sorry 1 in 12 years is not good enough. I am not talking about McDavid and Crosby and Kane talent, a few more D-cats would have been nice. Good GMs find a way to get talent when drafting lower and other than Cat, Saad and Shaw he did not, pretty dismal percentage for a good talent evaluator. Where are all his number 1 picks? Sure some are on other teams and we have very little show for them. Who's fault is that? Maybe if he drafted different players or listened to his scouts and assistants some would be on the team and we would not be on the cusp of being a lottery team, heck the Kracken is in better shape right now than our beloved Hawks. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 5, 2022 7:07:37 GMT -6
Dylan Strome's next contract is due this summer. Alex Debrincat has a year left. Since the start of January, Strome and Debrincat have played together with Patrick Kane. The line has been very strong offensively, with all three players producing at a point a game plus pace. I believe it is now time to break that line up. Let's see how Strome and Debrincat manage without Kane. This is a lost season, regardless. Decisions need to be made this summer. Do the Hawks keep Strome? Do they keep Debrincat? How much do they pay them? For how long? Strome's trade value is not going to increase much between now and the end of the year. Either will Debrincat's. There is no value to the organization in having these players pad their stats playing with Patrick Kane only to use these numbers as leverage when negotiating the next contract. if Debrincat and Strome are talented enough to maintain their present scoring stats without Kane, they will be worth resigning rather than trading away. But the only way to find out is to separate them now from Kane. Play Kane with Toews and Dach. Play Debrincat with Strome and Raddysh. Let's see what happens. My guess: Toews and Dach start scoring every night. Strome and Debrincat go into a scoring funk. Kane is the straw that does most of the stirring. It is time to find out before it is too late in the summer. You mean like when D-Cat and Strome put up career numbers luggin' Perlini around for half a year? Like that? Strome does need better linemates to play at his best......a lotta other good players do too but D-Cat will get his as long as he has a set up guy on his line and a finisher to finish his sweet dishes! I knew you'd run with Kane makes D-Cat but I'm not sure it isn't equal.........Kane numbers are MUCH better with D-Cat,not only because he finishes but because he sets up his linen mates like crazy. If D-Cat played with JT all year,he'd still have huge numbers but JT's would be a lot better. MY guess is D-Cat will get his regardless! DACH SCORING EVERY NIGHT.......LOFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 5, 2022 7:29:18 GMT -6
How many difference makers do you think are in a draft year. In 8 of his 12 drafts Stan drafted 24th and higher because of team success. I consider the 2010 to 2015 Chicago cup teams to be among the great teams of the pre-cap era like Montreal the Islanders and Oilers and even they couldn't sustain success. Believe it or not but there are somthings the GM cannot control. The fact that the Cat a top three talent was past over 38 times is proof positive that Stan on that day and time was the smartest man in the room. You need more than 1 to a have sustain success, sorry 1 in 12 years is not good enough. I am not talking about McDavid and Crosby and Kane talent, a few more D-cats would have been nice. Good GMs find a way to get talent when drafting lower and other than Cat, Saad and Shaw he did not, pretty dismal percentage for a good talent evaluator. Where are all his number 1 picks? Sure some are on other teams and we have very little show for them. Who's fault is that? Maybe if he drafted different players or listened to his scouts and assistants some would be on the team and we would not be on the cusp of being a lottery team, heck the Kracken is in better shape right now than our beloved Hawks. DUMBASS' first five years here were adequate,he brought in a few good pieces and drafted a few good pieces and I was a supporter more than a critic. His last five years were a tragedy that have left this team in an organizational mess. Seth Jones will be 28 when he starts his FOREVER contract next October and he'll be 33 with 1,000 games on the odometer in five years when we're supposed to be good again......someone please explain what part of the rebuild this is. He'll also have full a NMC those last years of this deal and 5M a year will come from bonuses making him a non-candidate for a buyout...........a CARBON COPY of the albatross he gave Seabs with a few differences. Jones deal is 2.7M more a year and Jones unlike Seabs isn't being rewarded for outstanding championship play. GOD DAM IT.........if you wanted Jones,you tank this year and get him as an URA this summer........you keep the valuable assets that were squandered.....again.....and I wouldn't be surprised if the open market might have demanded less than what e threw at him last year and at least the deal woulda been a year shorter. McCabe for 4M for three more years,he'll be 29 to start the year and he's worth roughly half that. Murphy's new 4.4M deal kicks in next year @29 too,that'llbe the deal to replace deHAAN-job's stinker. Brent 'Buyout' Connolly will remain the richest man in Rockford for at least on more year wile he gets to count his 3.5M/2.3M hit but at least the NCAA phenom 'Failed Borgstrom' can lead the rebuild......  Can't forget Ol Plastic neck Johnson is gonna get 5M to skate 4th line for us for two more years,he'll be 32 when next season starts but at least his NTC becomes a M-NTC but who TF will take that deal.....unless somebody hires DUMBASS!LOFL! HEY,that's only 26.4 MILLION dollars on five players the youngest being 28,with no 1st round pick,no #1 or #2 D-man in the system,let alone ready.....same for a #1 center. No goal scoring winger either but I hear those are a dime a dozen....LOL! Welcome to the rebuild! DUMBASS should be in jail for this crime! |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Apr 5, 2022 7:55:37 GMT -6
Dylan Strome's next contract is due this summer. Alex Debrincat has a year left. Since the start of January, Strome and Debrincat have played together with Patrick Kane. The line has been very strong offensively, with all three players producing at a point a game plus pace. I believe it is now time to break that line up. Let's see how Strome and Debrincat manage without Kane. This is a lost season, regardless. Decisions need to be made this summer. Do the Hawks keep Strome? Do they keep Debrincat? How much do they pay them? For how long? Strome's trade value is not going to increase much between now and the end of the year. Either will Debrincat's. There is no value to the organization in having these players pad their stats playing with Patrick Kane only to use these numbers as leverage when negotiating the next contract. if Debrincat and Strome are talented enough to maintain their present scoring stats without Kane, they will be worth resigning rather than trading away. But the only way to find out is to separate them now from Kane. Play Kane with Toews and Dach. Play Debrincat with Strome and Raddysh. Let's see what happens. My guess: Toews and Dach start scoring every night. Strome and Debrincat go into a scoring funk. Kane is the straw that does most of the stirring. It is time to find out before it is too late in the summer. You mean like when D-Cat and Strome put up career numbers lugghin' Perlini around for half a year? Like that? Strome does need better linemates to play at his best......a lotta other good players do too but D-Cat will get his as long as he has a set up guy on his line and a finisher to finish his sweet dishes! I knew you'd run with Kane makes D-Cat but I'm not sure it isn't equal.........Kane numbers are MUCH better with D-Cat,not only because he finishes but because he sets up his linen mates like crazy. If D-Cat played with JT all year,he'd still have huge numbers but JT's would be a lot better. MY guess is D-Cat will get his regardless! DACH SCORING EVERY NIGHT.......LOFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's why I don't want Debrincat traded, yes he'd bring back a lot of assets but he's still young and an impact player, assets aren't a sure thing. Try and move Toews and Kane, they can always come back after next season. Let Strome, Debrincat and Raddysh be the top line. Raddysh looks much better than Perlini and he has chemistry with those two. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 5, 2022 8:55:09 GMT -6
You mean like when D-Cat and Strome put up career numbers lugghin' Perlini around for half a year? Like that? Strome does need better linemates to play at his best......a lotta other good players do too but D-Cat will get his as long as he has a set up guy on his line and a finisher to finish his sweet dishes! I knew you'd run with Kane makes D-Cat but I'm not sure it isn't equal.........Kane numbers are MUCH better with D-Cat,not only because he finishes but because he sets up his linen mates like crazy. If D-Cat played with JT all year,he'd still have huge numbers but JT's would be a lot better. MY guess is D-Cat will get his regardless! DACH SCORING EVERY NIGHT.......LOFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's why I don't want Debrincat traded, yes he'd bring back a lot of assets but he's still young and an impact player, assets aren't a sure thing. Try and move Toews and Kane, they can always come back after next season. Let Strome, Debrincat and Raddysh be the top line. Raddysh looks much better than Perlini and he has chemistry with those two. If D-Cat was timid or selfish or injury prone at this point,I,d be with MVR as far as getting a haul instead of seeing where the player's career goes from here but he's basically the opposite of those things......in other words his intangibles are dam near as good as his elite abilities. He's yet to miss a game to injury (knocks on wood....my head.....LOL) and it's not due to a non physical style,he actually plays much bigger than he is and he refuses to be pushed around by guys who are a head taller.....doesn't matter. He seems as fearless as a guy his size can be and I'm still not sure I've ever seen any kid more happy to play hockey to be honest. I've said I'd like to see D-Cat with a top center and a talented off winger who's also a bit of a bad ass if he was moved but it'd be interesting to see if that old Erie Otters chemistry is till there too I guess. It looks like Strome could be that top center now that he's given the opportunity and now Raddysh has to be that talented off winger who's also a bit of a bad ass.......we'll see. |
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Post by mvr on Apr 5, 2022 9:45:50 GMT -6
Dylan Strome's next contract is due this summer. Alex Debrincat has a year left. Since the start of January, Strome and Debrincat have played together with Patrick Kane. The line has been very strong offensively, with all three players producing at a point a game plus pace. I believe it is now time to break that line up. Let's see how Strome and Debrincat manage without Kane. This is a lost season, regardless. Decisions need to be made this summer. Do the Hawks keep Strome? Do they keep Debrincat? How much do they pay them? For how long? Strome's trade value is not going to increase much between now and the end of the year. Either will Debrincat's. There is no value to the organization in having these players pad their stats playing with Patrick Kane only to use these numbers as leverage when negotiating the next contract. if Debrincat and Strome are talented enough to maintain their present scoring stats without Kane, they will be worth resigning rather than trading away. But the only way to find out is to separate them now from Kane. Play Kane with Toews and Dach. Play Debrincat with Strome and Raddysh. Let's see what happens. My guess: Toews and Dach start scoring every night. Strome and Debrincat go into a scoring funk. Kane is the straw that does most of the stirring. It is time to find out before it is too late in the summer. You mean like when D-Cat and Strome put up career numbers luggin' Perlini around for half a year? Like that? Strome does need better linemates to play at his best......a lotta other good players do too but D-Cat will get his as long as he has a set up guy on his line and a finisher to finish his sweet dishes! I knew you'd run with Kane makes D-Cat but I'm not sure it isn't equal.........Kane numbers are MUCH better with D-Cat,not only because he finishes but because he sets up his linen mates like crazy. If D-Cat played with JT all year,he'd still have huge numbers but JT's would be a lot better. MY guess is D-Cat will get his regardless! DACH SCORING EVERY NIGHT.......LOFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't you think it is time to find out? What is the harm in trying? Let's see if Debrincat and Strome can produce at or near the same clip without Kane before management starts handing out the next generous batch of long term NMCs. I think it is important to know. Kane is not going to be around forever. It is not as if that line has been dominating. They do get scored on more during five-on-five play then they score. The team continues to lose with or without that line scoring. Johnny deserves the opportunity to play with Kane for a few weeks and pad his scoring stats. |
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Post by mvr on Apr 5, 2022 9:52:04 GMT -6
The only explanation I can think of for loading up line one is that management is committed to trading all three players - Kane, Debrincat and Strome.
If this is the plan, then it makes sense to get these players to maximize their production. This could drive up trade values slightly.
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Post by hsbob on Apr 5, 2022 10:15:11 GMT -6
You mean like when D-Cat and Strome put up career numbers luggin' Perlini around for half a year? Like that? Strome does need better linemates to play at his best......a lotta other good players do too but D-Cat will get his as long as he has a set up guy on his line and a finisher to finish his sweet dishes! I knew you'd run with Kane makes D-Cat but I'm not sure it isn't equal.........Kane numbers are MUCH better with D-Cat,not only because he finishes but because he sets up his linen mates like crazy. If D-Cat played with JT all year,he'd still have huge numbers but JT's would be a lot better. MY guess is D-Cat will get his regardless! DACH SCORING EVERY NIGHT.......LOFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't you think it is time to find out? What is the harm in trying? Let's see if Debrincat and Strome can produce at or near the same clip without Kane before management starts handing out the next generous batch of long term NMCs. I think it is important to know. Kane is not going to be around forever. It is not as if that line has been dominating. They do get scored on more during five-on-five play then they score. The team continues to lose with or without that line scoring. Johnny deserves the opportunity to play with Kane for a few weeks and pad his scoring stats. I have no problem with any of this for a myriad of reasons....... I'd love to see JT and Kane finish out the year together. The team should see if the three former Otters can rekindle their chemistry..........no harm at all. No line will dominate with awful D-men and average to below average goaltending......ever. D-Cat HAS produced at this clip every year with the exception of the one where he was re-invented as a shutdown forward.....LOL.......with AND without Kane. Put Dach with K&T if you want and if his numbers don't improve then.....it might tell us a LOT. He's due a contract too and I'm more concerned giving him a long term deal than I am Cat or Strome to be honest. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 5, 2022 10:18:06 GMT -6
The only explanation I can think of for loading up line one is that management is committed to trading all three players - Kane, Debrincat and Strome. If this is the plan, then it makes sense to get these players to maximize their production. This could drive up trade values slightly. OR.......the Org figures their dazzling play keeps seats filled. I still doubt The Family goes for bad records and half empty buildings. |
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Post by squishy24 on Apr 5, 2022 11:22:38 GMT -6
put Raddysh-Strome-Dcat together
and try Dach as center with Kane. If Dach doesnt improve playing with the player that elevates other players, then....
as for the other wing with Dach and Kane, had a hard time trying to figure out who should be in there. There is a lack of talent in this team. Kubalik maybe? or that Katchouk guy
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Post by hsbob on Apr 5, 2022 11:30:59 GMT -6
put Raddysh-Strome-Dcat together and try Dach as center with Kane. If Dach doesnt improve playing with the player that elevates other players, then.... as for the other wing with Dach and Kane, had a hard time trying to figure out who should be in there. There is a lack of talent in this team. Kubalik maybe? or that Katchouk guy Who takes the FO's on Kane's line and where does JT play? Not that it matters any more. |
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Post by squishy24 on Apr 5, 2022 11:37:00 GMT -6
put Raddysh-Strome-Dcat together and try Dach as center with Kane. If Dach doesnt improve playing with the player that elevates other players, then.... as for the other wing with Dach and Kane, had a hard time trying to figure out who should be in there. There is a lack of talent in this team. Kubalik maybe? or that Katchouk guy Who takes the FO's on Kane's line and where does JT play? Not that it matters any more. good question. dont know how good Katchouk is with face-off, maybe Lafferty? as for whos in Toews line, who else is left? Kurashev is still with the team? this team lacks NHL players |
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Post by mvr on Apr 5, 2022 11:51:19 GMT -6
For whatever reason, King has really not taken to Toews, and I don't get why.
Toews remains the top faceoff guy on the team. He is still the best defensive forward most nights.
Yet his icetime is way down this year. He is not the guy used in the final few minutes to close out games. He does not take that key first draw in overtime to establish possession.
He typically plays with shrubs such as Kurashev and Kubalik who seem uninterested. On many nights, it is Dach, not Toews, checking the opponent's best line.
I think Toews should be playing full time right now with Kane. Let's attempt to revitalize the captain - get him going, help build up his confidence again. I would not be surprised if Toews with Kane re-establishes himself as a point-a-game guy. He needs help on his line, and he has not had much in many years.
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Post by BigT on Apr 5, 2022 13:45:26 GMT -6
For whatever reason, King has really not taken to Toews, and I don't get why. Toews remains the top faceoff guy on the team. He is still the best defensive forward most nights. Yet his icetime is way down this year. He is not the guy used in the final few minutes to close out games. He does not take that key first draw in overtime to establish possession. He typically plays with shrubs such as Kurashev and Kubalik who seem uninterested. On many nights, it is Dach, not Toews, checking the opponent's best line. I think Toews should be playing full time right now with Kane. Let's attempt to revitalize the captain - get him going, help build up his confidence again. I would not be surprised if Toews with Kane re-establishes himself as a point-a-game guy. He needs help on his line, and he has not had much in many years. It’s either one of two things. 1) Toews isn’t at 100% from his illness yet and they’re giving him sheltered minutes. He did say himself that he’d get sheltered minutes this year. Not sure if it was to last the whole season though. 2) The org is slowly but surely showing him his new role if he remains with the Hawks. My best guess is that they’re open to trading everything. I understand both sides of the argument. If there’s no fit for a certain player, then they’ll have to decide to move on. It sucks. But the team needs to move forward. Whether it’s with certain players or not. We’ll see soon enough!!! |
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Post by mvr on Apr 5, 2022 16:35:10 GMT -6
I suspect Toews is not at 100%.
We all can see it. He gets worn down and looks exhausted heading for a change. The legs just aren't there yet, and they might not return.
But he remains a smart player, and perhaps he can do more with less given his hockey sense. But to succeed he needs others to carry some of the load for him. Kurashev and Kubalik are ghosts most nights (typically Bowman players - all skill, no bite).
Kane would help carry the puck, and Dach could help retrieve it and get it back.
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Post by bigbarn27 on Apr 5, 2022 19:45:13 GMT -6
Lots of good stuff being put out by everyone. My 2 cents Johnny is not fully back, as far as showing what there worth this last month I dont think you will get an accurate gauge. Dach will be here for another contract
silly to trade now, return just wont be worth it. Just leave him centering the 3rd line. Bob is right on 12-17-88 are together because for the rest of the year they will be fun to watch. Cat will be fine no matter who he plays with. Big Question is Strome this is the only stretch in his career where he has givin a real good effort he has his flees defensively but right now at least his effort is there. So are we buying the new Strome ??
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debrincat
Apr 5, 2022 20:29:14 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by BigT on Apr 5, 2022 20:29:14 GMT -6
Lots of good stuff being put out by everyone. My 2 cents Johnny is not fully back, as far as showing what there worth this last month I dont think you will get an accurate gauge. Dach will be here for another contract silly to trade now, return just wont be worth it. Just leave him centering the 3rd line. Bob is right on 12-17-88 are together because for the rest of the year they will be fun to watch. Cat will be fine no matter who he plays with. Big Question is Strome this is the only stretch in his career where he has givin a real good effort he has his flees defensively but right now at least his effort is there. So are we buying the new Strome ?? Strome reminds me a lot of RNH in Edmonton. I don’t think they’ll ever be a #1 center. But I think they can be a decent #2 centerman. I’d rather keep Strome and Dach along for the rebuild as big centers are tough to find. And they may be good enough to help keep the Hawks on the bottom. But I’m all for trading everything else. The Hawks have no farm system, and they don’t have much on the big club. Gotta try and cash in on some of the only guys with a worth!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 6, 2022 7:48:35 GMT -6
Lots of good stuff being put out by everyone. My 2 cents Johnny is not fully back, as far as showing what there worth this last month I dont think you will get an accurate gauge. Dach will be here for another contract silly to trade now, return just wont be worth it. Just leave him centering the 3rd line. Bob is right on 12-17-88 are together because for the rest of the year they will be fun to watch. Cat will be fine no matter who he plays with. Big Question is Strome this is the only stretch in his career where he has givin a real good effort he has his flees defensively but right now at least his effort is there. So are we buying the new Strome ?? I dunno BB,he had 17/51 in his first 58 games here and followed up with 38pts in 58gms the next year......it's hard to score from the press box. The whole dam team has flees my friend and I know Strome's game has a hole or two in it but the prolonged benching's and a near refusal to play him was absurd. Sure the occasional scratch or demotion to get his attention but he's a talented player......the last HC was NOT a talented HC! |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 6, 2022 8:06:14 GMT -6
Lots of good stuff being put out by everyone. My 2 cents Johnny is not fully back, as far as showing what there worth this last month I dont think you will get an accurate gauge. Dach will be here for another contract silly to trade now, return just wont be worth it. Just leave him centering the 3rd line. Bob is right on 12-17-88 are together because for the rest of the year they will be fun to watch. Cat will be fine no matter who he plays with. Big Question is Strome this is the only stretch in his career where he has givin a real good effort he has his flees defensively but right now at least his effort is there. So are we buying the new Strome ?? Strome reminds me a lot of RNH in Edmonton. I don’t think they’ll ever be a #1 center. But I think they can be a decent #2 centerman. I’d rather keep Strome and Dach along for the rebuild as big centers are tough to find. And they may be good enough to help keep the Hawks on the bottom. But I’m all for trading everything else. The Hawks have no farm system, and they don’t have much on the big club. Gotta try and cash in on some of the only guys with a worth!!! If we could combine Strome and Dach,we'd have a center who could score AND play D AND win FO's........still wouldn't be very tough though. |
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Post by steamer on Apr 6, 2022 12:45:29 GMT -6
For whatever reason Strome has elevated his game to the level that should be expected of where he was drafted. This makes the line with 12/88 solid. Unfortunately things fall off sharply after that. I hope Toews gains strength/health and like everyone else, I keep waiting and waiting and hoping that Dach finally “gets it”. Not sure he has the mental maturity to overcome the obstacles he’s had but he should take a good look at Strome overcoming the issues he’s had to get beyond. Time is ticking for him IMO.
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Post by hsbob on Apr 10, 2022 10:05:21 GMT -6
Of course, Big T, those are exactly my thoughts. Quality older veterans on short term deals help establish boundaries for the kids during a rebuild. This is why re-signing MAF makes sense to me. He won't likely come back regardless, but we can hope. His family is already here. I accommodate Toews and Kane if they want a trade. Otherwise, they stay until next year's deadline, when conversations about their futures need to be clarified. My guess is that both players will achieve max trade value when their contracts have been mostly paid. Seth Jones and McCabe have long term contracts with NTC. They stay unless they want out and/or there is a good offer. There won't be many teams interested. I shop all the others hard. But I don't force any trades. Realistically, the only trade chips worth anything are Debrincat and Murphy. Neither has to be moved this summer, but both are likely peaking in terms of trade value. Tyler Johnson and Connelly should be bought out this summer. Borgstrom has a year left on his contract but might best look for an apartment in Rockford or back in Europe. No big loss. Kubalik should book his one-way flight now back home. When weighing the possible downsides of a 20-25 win season vs the good pick in every round of the best draft in a decade that will result from that bad season.........I see it as a no brain-er. If the losing adversely affects the attitudes of the younger players,maybe they ain't the right younger players,the losing should leave a bad enough taste to where the younger players don't stand for it........this team DESPERATELY needs those picks IMO! |
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Post by mvr on Apr 10, 2022 10:57:32 GMT -6
Of course, Big T, those are exactly my thoughts. Quality older veterans on short term deals help establish boundaries for the kids during a rebuild. This is why re-signing MAF makes sense to me. He won't likely come back regardless, but we can hope. His family is already here. I accommodate Toews and Kane if they want a trade. Otherwise, they stay until next year's deadline, when conversations about their futures need to be clarified. My guess is that both players will achieve max trade value when their contracts have been mostly paid. Seth Jones and McCabe have long term contracts with NTC. They stay unless they want out and/or there is a good offer. There won't be many teams interested. I shop all the others hard. But I don't force any trades. Realistically, the only trade chips worth anything are Debrincat and Murphy. Neither has to be moved this summer, but both are likely peaking in terms of trade value. Tyler Johnson and Connelly should be bought out this summer. Borgstrom has a year left on his contract but might best look for an apartment in Rockford or back in Europe. No big loss. Kubalik should book his one-way flight now back home. When weighing the possible downsides of a 20-25 win season vs the good pick in every round of the best draft in a decade that will result from that bad season.........I see it as a no brain-er. If the losing adversely affects the attitudes of the younger players,maybe they ain't the right younger players,the losing should leave a bad enough taste to where the younger players don't stand for it........this team DESPERATELY needs those picks IMO! I am not in favour of deliberately losing as a strategy to get higher draft picks. Given the new rules around the draft, the odds of a tanking team picking first or second in any given year remain low. After the first couple of picks, the draft really is a lottery. My feeling instead is that you attempt to field a competitive team and do your best with the talent you can find, while filtering every move through a long lens. If you lose and happen to secure a high pick, that's great. But you don't plan for that good fortune. Building a future nest egg around lottery tickets is not for me. I prefer investing in the human capital the team already has in its system. Even though Bowman left the cupboards pretty much bare, management does have a responsibility to develop those who are here. Dach and Reichel are kids with promise. Mitchell is a very young man. The kids from Tampa have little experience. A successful long term plan includes setting a healthy culture be to make sure these assets aren't wasted. |
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debrincat
Apr 10, 2022 13:08:05 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by BigT on Apr 10, 2022 13:08:05 GMT -6
I have to chime in on this. No GM, coach or player will be told to “tank”. What happens is a team trades away all its assets of the old guard. Let’s the chips fall where they may. Of course the roster is bad. It’s bad with the stars we have. It’s not tanking, it’s gaining assets for your assets. And trying to gain much more than you had. Or, “asset management”. Obviously there isn’t another Kane or Dcat in the waiting. So the team will get worse. Or deliberately tanking.
There’s no other way to put it. If you trade Kane or Dcat for futures. You’re purposely tanking. If you trade a player that’s 8 or 9 out of 10, and replace him with a 5-6 out of 10. That would be purposely tanking.
Now I think that MVR is talking about not trying at all and just putting the worst team possible out there. I don’t believe in that either. However. There’s not much youth here to build around. So I don’t know what culture it would be setting? The team next year will not be what the team is in 3 years from now. So it won’t matter anyways!!!
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Post by mvr on Apr 10, 2022 14:16:12 GMT -6
A good coaching staff with a strong teaching background is needed desperately to improve the culture. Before anything else, this must be the number one priority.
The young players have not really improved much for many years now. This is not just on them. I think the entire coaching staff, including the present group in Rockford, really needs to be evaluated.
Yanic Perreault was an elite faceoff guy in his time. He has not been able to improve anyone on the present roster other than perhaps Strome. Dach is still standing too straight and not really digging in with his skates or crouching over the faceoff circle. He is not set for most draws. His body position is all wrong. Anyone who has played even a bit must see that. Why isn't Dach getting any better?
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Post by mvr on Apr 10, 2022 14:38:12 GMT -6
Big T -
When the Hawks trade Debrincat, the purpose is not to tank. The hope, rather, is that the general manager adds both present and future quality assets.
Additions and subtractions work in mysterious ways. Spots open up for players who aren't getting much ice time (with Debrincat it would be the shooter's role on the first unit powerplay). Roles change.
Colorado traded Matt Duchene a few years back. He was by far the best player in the trade. The thinking was that the Avalanche were "tanking." Yet the team began to improve almost immediately after Duchene left. His presence on that team was holding back others.
I look at the Hagel return and I am very excited about the two players from Tampa. Neither will score as much as Hagel. But both do different things that win games. The addition of Katchouk has provided the fourth line with an identity. It means we don't have to watch Borgstrom float any more with his pretty edges. Raddysh is now on the first line and first unit powerplay (and producing).
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