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Post by hsbob on Apr 11, 2022 8:12:23 GMT -6
When weighing the possible downsides of a 20-25 win season vs the good pick in every round of the best draft in a decade that will result from that bad season.........I see it as a no brain-er. If the losing adversely affects the attitudes of the younger players,maybe they ain't the right younger players,the losing should leave a bad enough taste to where the younger players don't stand for it........this team DESPERATELY needs those picks IMO! I am not in favour of deliberately losing as a strategy to get higher draft picks. Given the new rules around the draft, the odds of a tanking team picking first or second in any given year remain low. After the first couple of picks, the draft really is a lottery. My feeling instead is that you attempt to field a competitive team and do your best with the talent you can find, while filtering every move through a long lens. If you lose and happen to secure a high pick, that's great. But you don't plan for that good fortune. Building a future nest egg around lottery tickets is not for me. I prefer investing in the human capital the team already has in its system. Even though Bowman left the cupboards pretty much bare, management does have a responsibility to develop those who are here. Dach and Reichel are kids with promise. Mitchell is a very young man. The kids from Tampa have little experience. A successful long term plan includes setting a healthy culture be to make sure these assets aren't wasted. There was a term for the area between the trenches in WWII.......it was called 'no man's land' and this team has been in it for years. A team around .500 the next few years will be an absolute travesty! The young players you mention give me little encouragement. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 11, 2022 8:41:02 GMT -6
A good coaching staff with a strong teaching background is needed desperately to improve the culture. Before anything else, this must be the number one priority. The young players have not really improved much for many years now. This is not just on them. I think the entire coaching staff, including the present group in Rockford, really needs to be evaluated. Yanic Perreault was an elite faceoff guy in his time. He has not been able to improve anyone on the present roster other than perhaps Strome. Dach is still standing too straight and not really digging in with his skates or crouching over the faceoff circle. He is not set for most draws. His body position is all wrong. Anyone who has played even a bit must see that. Why isn't Dach getting any better? I don't have much faith in the Org's ability to develop or assess or we'd have a 1st pair of 21yro Seider and 22yro Jokiharju! As far as blaming Perreault or King or Harry Potter or even the ghost of Billy Reay for Dach's continued FO failures,you can blame every coach he's ever had because he's never been any good at it............gotta be coachable to be coached. We've seen JT practicing with Dach and they just shut it down after a while due to JT winning almost ever one clean. Kurashev's a young guy who's 42%.....not good but not 32% Entwistle's a young guy who's 41%.......not good but not 32% R Johnson doesn't have a large sample size but he's 49% You mentioned Strome and even the guy with the so called bad attitude(I always knew that was a joke!) has worked his ass off to be a good FO guy @52.6% and he's also a lengthy framed guy. Reichel's 33% but the sample size is too small to have any merit I dunno how he's done in Rockford,they don't list FO% on their stat page. We can ask why Dach isn't getting any better but the question should be,how in the hell can a healthy Dach with a full camp fall from 40% last year to 32% this year.....he was better as a rook. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Apr 11, 2022 8:48:02 GMT -6
I am not in favour of deliberately losing as a strategy to get higher draft picks. Given the new rules around the draft, the odds of a tanking team picking first or second in any given year remain low. After the first couple of picks, the draft really is a lottery. My feeling instead is that you attempt to field a competitive team and do your best with the talent you can find, while filtering every move through a long lens. If you lose and happen to secure a high pick, that's great. But you don't plan for that good fortune. Building a future nest egg around lottery tickets is not for me. I prefer investing in the human capital the team already has in its system. Even though Bowman left the cupboards pretty much bare, management does have a responsibility to develop those who are here. Dach and Reichel are kids with promise. Mitchell is a very young man. The kids from Tampa have little experience. A successful long term plan includes setting a healthy culture be to make sure these assets aren't wasted. There was a term for the area between the trenches in WWII.......it was called 'no man's land' and this team has been in it for years. A team around .500 the next few years will be an absolute travesty! The young players you mention give me little encouragement. Bingo. You don't deliberately tank but there has to be the purpose of actual development. It's why I say that next season you get one cheap vet netminder who has been there/done that. Jones works. Elliott works. Even Fleury works if he's not to expensive and then you let the kids fight it out for the 1A spot, with the understanding that if they drop someone else takes their place. They get the proper mentorship from someone who has seen a lot, but no one is "owed" the #1 slot. The key to that, though is making sure the vet is truly a 1B and not shoehorned into a #1 slot--the kids need game time to develop. The growing pains of the kids will either keep the team down or the kids rise above quicker than we expect, but the goal has to be development. i.e. Keith, Seabrook, Toews, Kane, and Crawford all got actual chances and ran with the chances they got (they, with the exception of Kane, were also developed at lower levels). Part of that is also cutting assets loose when they aren't developing how you'd like them to be developing in lieu of better assets...if you can of course. There are a few guys on the team who are young and simply don't look good. How much more time should they get vs. someone who could be there showing promise? Kubalik and Dach come to mind. For the fanbois of Dach: Yes, I get it, he's young and had been incredibly mishandled, but he's also not developing as a top-2 center. He shouldn't be blocking anyone else from that role as long as he is stagnating Maybe you sign him on a cheap "Show Me" deal at the end of this season, and I wouldn't be upset with that; for his own career he's gotta sink or swim. Koob, on the other hand? Might as well cut him loose. Unfortunately Bowman the Beancounter really screwed the team over so irrespective it's going to hurt trying to get real tangible assets in while pointless waste is clogging up the lineup. But the underlying purpose should be development; at this point the lineup is far, far, far too gone to even remotely think 1 or 2 players will be able to turn the rest of the lineup into a cup-winning powerhouse. It wasn't true as far back as 2016 and it isn't true now. The 'hawks shouldn't be wasting cap and assets trying to get expenisve magic bullet players who they hope sparks the rest of the team to not be old, bad, or both. That's a Beancounter's way of thinking. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 11, 2022 8:59:13 GMT -6
Big T - When the Hawks trade Debrincat, the purpose is not to tank. The hope, rather, is that the general manager adds both present and future quality assets. Additions and subtractions work in mysterious ways. Spots open up for players who aren't getting much ice time (with Debrincat it would be the shooter's role on the first unit powerplay). Roles change. Colorado traded Matt Duchene a few years back. He was by far the best player in the trade. The thinking was that the Avalanche were "tanking." Yet the team began to improve almost immediately after Duchene left. His presence on that team was holding back others. I look at the Hagel return and I am very excited about the two players from Tampa. Neither will score as much as Hagel. But both do different things that win games. The addition of Katchouk has provided the fourth line with an identity. It means we don't have to watch Borgstrom float any more with his pretty edges. Raddysh is now on the first line and first unit powerplay (and producing). Do you believe the team would be better without D-Cat and Hagel? SERIOUSLY? Trade Kane,D-Cat,Toews and Strome and there isn't a worse roster in the NHL.........some AHL teams would be better. Trade elite NHL players for filler or fringe payers.........see above. If you think a line with Kane and Toews on it isn't the first line and 2 goals in 11 games (both on the PP) is producing.........see above. Brandon Hagel sees about 12-15 minutes on TB's 3rd line and reliable PK duties with one shorty already and potted his 24th(3rd w/TB) last night speaking of production but it's the next two years that will see Tampa reap the benefits of that cap rescuing trade. Trading good,young players,bringing in more vets,just missing more PO's and drafting mid-round will lead to decades of dismal hockey in the great city of Chicago. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Apr 11, 2022 12:03:29 GMT -6
Big T - When the Hawks trade Debrincat, the purpose is not to tank. The hope, rather, is that the general manager adds both present and future quality assets. Additions and subtractions work in mysterious ways. Spots open up for players who aren't getting much ice time (with Debrincat it would be the shooter's role on the first unit powerplay). Roles change. Colorado traded Matt Duchene a few years back. He was by far the best player in the trade. The thinking was that the Avalanche were "tanking." Yet the team began to improve almost immediately after Duchene left. His presence on that team was holding back others. I look at the Hagel return and I am very excited about the two players from Tampa. Neither will score as much as Hagel. But both do different things that win games. The addition of Katchouk has provided the fourth line with an identity. It means we don't have to watch Borgstrom float any more with his pretty edges. Raddysh is now on the first line and first unit powerplay (and producing). Do you believe the team would be better without D-Cat and Hagel? SERIOUSLY? Trade Kane,D-Cat,Toews and Strome and there isn't a worse roster in the NHL.........some AHL teams would be better. Trade elite NHL players for filler or fringe payers.........see above. If you think a line with Kane and Toews on it isn't the first line and 2 goals in 11 games (both on the PP) is producing.........see above. Brandon Hagel sees about 12-15 minutes on TB's 3rd line and reliable PK duties with one shorty already and potted his 24th(3rd w/TB) last night speaking of production but it's the next two years that will see Tampa reap the benefits of that cap rescuing trade. Trading good,young players,bringing in more vets,just missing more PO's and drafting mid-round will lead to decades of dismal hockey in the great city of Chicago. No matter which way one comes down on some of these decisions about what to do with various players, draft strategies, etc., there are loads of uncertainties and no sure way out of the mess. I have been saying for a few years that all the fans need to do is look at how the Pens were managed after their most recent two Cups to see that it is possible to maintain some excellence and that it is also possible to completely mess up a team, like the Chicago team, such that recovery may not occur for years, or decades. This is really a garbage outfit. |
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Post by mvr on Apr 12, 2022 5:33:45 GMT -6
Big T - When the Hawks trade Debrincat, the purpose is not to tank. The hope, rather, is that the general manager adds both present and future quality assets. Additions and subtractions work in mysterious ways. Spots open up for players who aren't getting much ice time (with Debrincat it would be the shooter's role on the first unit powerplay). Roles change. Colorado traded Matt Duchene a few years back. He was by far the best player in the trade. The thinking was that the Avalanche were "tanking." Yet the team began to improve almost immediately after Duchene left. His presence on that team was holding back others. I look at the Hagel return and I am very excited about the two players from Tampa. Neither will score as much as Hagel. But both do different things that win games. The addition of Katchouk has provided the fourth line with an identity. It means we don't have to watch Borgstrom float any more with his pretty edges. Raddysh is now on the first line and first unit powerplay (and producing). Do you believe the team would be better without D-Cat and Hagel? SERIOUSLY? Trade Kane,D-Cat,Toews and Strome and there isn't a worse roster in the NHL.........some AHL teams would be better. Trade elite NHL players for filler or fringe payers.........see above. If you think a line with Kane and Toews on it isn't the first line and 2 goals in 11 games (both on the PP) is producing.........see above. Brandon Hagel sees about 12-15 minutes on TB's 3rd line and reliable PK duties with one shorty already and potted his 24th(3rd w/TB) last night speaking of production but it's the next two years that will see Tampa reap the benefits of that cap rescuing trade. Trading good,young players,bringing in more vets,just missing more PO's and drafting mid-round will lead to decades of dismal hockey in the great city of Chicago. "Do you believe the team would be better without D-Cat and Hagel? SERIOUSLY?" ..... Didn't say that. Don't think it. I'm hopeful these trades pay immediately dividends, but I'm not saying they will. Obviously, the main pieces in the Hagel trade were the picks. More strawman b.s. "If you think a line with Kane and Toews on it isn't the first line and 2 goals in 11 games (both on the PP) is producing." ..... More strawman b.s. I have no idea where this statement is coming from.... "Trading good,young players,bringing in more vets,just missing more PO's and drafting mid-round will lead to decades of dismal hockey in the great city of Chicago." .... Maybe so, but what is the alternative? This team is at the very bottom of the standings with Debrincat and the others in the lineup; the situation really can't get worse from here. They lost to the Coyotes and an expansion team last week. Without Fleury, this team isn't competitive with anyone. My plan is to trade Debrincat this summer, add some veteran fill, continue to slow cook the prospects and see what happens. What's yours, Bob? You mock everyone here who dares to present an idea and blame Bowman for the present state of the organization. But what would you do moving forward? Which kids do you keep and which do you trade? Do you retain Debrincat, Toews and Kane, or do you trade them? If so, when? What do you think you would get for them? If you decide to keep Debrincat, how much are you willing to spend? Would you give him a NMC? What do you do about Kubalik and Strome? What about Murphy? What about Dach and the others? Do you sign some veterans this summer (and which ones), or you just play the kids and hope you don't ruin them? Let's see your plan to move the organization forward. Show your hand. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Apr 12, 2022 8:15:44 GMT -6
There are decent arguments on both sides of every personnel decision you highlight. Decisions will be made on each of them. There are no guarantees of success. The only guarantee is that it is highly unlikely that the Hawks will put a decent team together in the next 10 years no matter what they do. There is a small chance that they will put a good team together in less time than 10 years, but it is highly unlikely. Every once in awhile the longshot wins the Kentucky Derby, so it could happen.
However, this team faces so many deficits and problems that must be solved to be competitive that t is not likely to happen. So, let the debates continue, but this organization is like a dam with numerous leaks and a weak foundation. Fix one leak and up pops another.
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Post by T-man2010 on Apr 12, 2022 9:02:11 GMT -6
There are decent arguments on both sides of every personnel decision you highlight. Decisions will be made on each of them. There are no guarantees of success. The only guarantee is that it is highly unlikely that the Hawks will put a decent team together in the next 10 years no matter what they do. There is a small chance that they will put a good team together in less time than 10 years, but it is highly unlikely. Every once in awhile the longshot wins the Kentucky Derby, so it could happen. However, this team faces so many deficits and problems that must be solved to be competitive that t is not likely to happen. So, let the debates continue, but this organization is like a dam with numerous leaks and a weak foundation. Fix one leak and up pops another. The Hawks can also end up with "One hit wonders" year like the Sharks did and Montreal did with deep runs and SCF loss's. That idea bothers me and gives false hope for a long term solution. I have pointed out before the model that the Bruins and Pens use has always kept their team in contention even when they have almost turned their roster over. But we are talking about teams that have an actual structure to their ORG top to bottom. Hawks is a cluster F@ck at best right now. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 12, 2022 10:10:19 GMT -6
Do you believe the team would be better without D-Cat and Hagel? SERIOUSLY? Trade Kane,D-Cat,Toews and Strome and there isn't a worse roster in the NHL.........some AHL teams would be better. Trade elite NHL players for filler or fringe payers.........see above. If you think a line with Kane and Toews on it isn't the first line and 2 goals in 11 games (both on the PP) is producing.........see above. Brandon Hagel sees about 12-15 minutes on TB's 3rd line and reliable PK duties with one shorty already and potted his 24th(3rd w/TB) last night speaking of production but it's the next two years that will see Tampa reap the benefits of that cap rescuing trade. Trading good,young players,bringing in more vets,just missing more PO's and drafting mid-round will lead to decades of dismal hockey in the great city of Chicago. "Do you believe the team would be better without D-Cat and Hagel? SERIOUSLY?" ..... Didn't say that. Don't think it. I'm hopeful these trades pay immediately dividends, but I'm not saying they will. Obviously, the main pieces in the Hagel trade were the picks. More strawman b.s. "If you think a line with Kane and Toews on it isn't the first line and 2 goals in 11 games (both on the PP) is producing." ..... More strawman b.s. I have no idea where this statement is coming from.... "Trading good,young players,bringing in more vets,just missing more PO's and drafting mid-round will lead to decades of dismal hockey in the great city of Chicago." .... Maybe so, but what is the alternative? This team is at the very bottom of the standings with Debrincat and the others in the lineup; the situation really can't get worse from here. They lost to the Coyotes and an expansion team last week. Without Fleury, this team isn't competitive with anyone. My plan is to trade Debrincat this summer, add some veteran fill, continue to slow cook the prospects and see what happens. What's yours, Bob? You mock everyone here who dares to present an idea and blame Bowman for the present state of the organization. But what would you do moving forward? Which kids do you keep and which do you trade? Do you retain Debrincat, Toews and Kane, or do you trade them? If so, when? What do you think you would get for them? If you decide to keep Debrincat, how much are you willing to spend? Would you give him a NMC? What do you do about Kubalik and Strome? What about Murphy? What about Dach and the others? Do you sign some veterans this summer (and which ones), or you just play the kids and hope you don't ruin them? Let's see your plan to move the organization forward. Show your hand. I won't comment on your first two sentences,if you want to back off the things you said,I'm gonna go ahead and let ya. 'Mealy Mouth' strikes again! The alternative to more 'no man's land'? How about some top three picks for a team in desperate need of top three picks. Bringing in a few vets ONLY with picks attached is a great idea but doing so in an effort to have a respectable record makes zero sense. I'll move D-Cat this summer too,he deserves better than this open sewer.....who are these prospects you're slow cooking there Martha Stewart....do tell? The truth is,you've never had much use for the elite American superstar and even you started a thread when you saw the opportunity to dump on him after a dim-witted HC had him on a checking line after a 41 goal campaign.....deny it. I absolutely DO NOT mock everyone here,just your plan of bringing in a bunch of vets so the team doesn't lose too much..........losing is necessary at this point and so are good draft picks. I've discussed just about every player on this roster with someone or the other at some point and my views are clear. If talented/elite 23&24 year old's aren't part of the rebuild,then tear it down,trade anything of value,have a few POOR seasons with the better picks they include and hope to hell Danny and Jaime take the game in a new direction I guess. If I had my druthers,MY plan would be getting experienced/proven hockey people in here to take complete control of the team unless KD reporting directly to the '2017 Liquor Executive of the year' makes more sense. Kubalik's a loser.....he's gone. Strome's over 23.....he's gone if we're rebuilding,trade him now that he's been given a chance to show how good he really is! Murphy and McCabe are worth about half of what they'll make and we can't afford even a drop of sweetener anymore so they either stay or the team retains $$$ or buys em both out in a year or three. Dach gets one more year on a show-me deal to prove he isn't a total bust. If you "ruin" kids by playing them,then maybe they'er the wrong kids. Some kids do need a little more time,especially D-men but if forwards aren't ready by 21-22 nowadays.........you're pissin' up a rope! |
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Post by jacksalmon on Apr 12, 2022 11:54:47 GMT -6
There are decent arguments on both sides of every personnel decision you highlight. Decisions will be made on each of them. There are no guarantees of success. The only guarantee is that it is highly unlikely that the Hawks will put a decent team together in the next 10 years no matter what they do. There is a small chance that they will put a good team together in less time than 10 years, but it is highly unlikely. Every once in awhile the longshot wins the Kentucky Derby, so it could happen. However, this team faces so many deficits and problems that must be solved to be competitive that t is not likely to happen. So, let the debates continue, but this organization is like a dam with numerous leaks and a weak foundation. Fix one leak and up pops another. The Hawks can also end up with "One hit wonders" year like the Sharks did and Montreal did with deep runs and SCF loss's. That idea bothers me and gives false hope for a long term solution. I have pointed out before the model that the Bruins and Pens use has always kept their team in contention even when they have almost turned their roster over. But we are talking about teams that have an actual structure to their ORG top to bottom. Hawks is a cluster F@ck at best right now. Welcome to the dark side, otherwise known as reality. |
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Post by mvr on Apr 12, 2022 13:16:35 GMT -6
"Do you believe the team would be better without D-Cat and Hagel? SERIOUSLY?" ..... Didn't say that. Don't think it. I'm hopeful these trades pay immediately dividends, but I'm not saying they will. Obviously, the main pieces in the Hagel trade were the picks. More strawman b.s. "If you think a line with Kane and Toews on it isn't the first line and 2 goals in 11 games (both on the PP) is producing." ..... More strawman b.s. I have no idea where this statement is coming from.... "Trading good,young players,bringing in more vets,just missing more PO's and drafting mid-round will lead to decades of dismal hockey in the great city of Chicago." .... Maybe so, but what is the alternative? This team is at the very bottom of the standings with Debrincat and the others in the lineup; the situation really can't get worse from here. They lost to the Coyotes and an expansion team last week. Without Fleury, this team isn't competitive with anyone. My plan is to trade Debrincat this summer, add some veteran fill, continue to slow cook the prospects and see what happens. What's yours, Bob? You mock everyone here who dares to present an idea and blame Bowman for the present state of the organization. But what would you do moving forward? Which kids do you keep and which do you trade? Do you retain Debrincat, Toews and Kane, or do you trade them? If so, when? What do you think you would get for them? If you decide to keep Debrincat, how much are you willing to spend? Would you give him a NMC? What do you do about Kubalik and Strome? What about Murphy? What about Dach and the others? Do you sign some veterans this summer (and which ones), or you just play the kids and hope you don't ruin them? Let's see your plan to move the organization forward. Show your hand. I won't comment on your first two sentences,if you want to back off the things you said,I'm gonna go ahead and let ya. 'Mealy Mouth' strikes again! The alternative to more 'no man's land'? How about some top three picks for a team in desperate need of top three picks. Bringing in a few vets ONLY with picks attached is a great idea but doing so in an effort to have a respectable record makes zero sense. I'll move D-Cat this summer too,he deserves better than this open sewer.....who are these prospects you're slow cooking there Martha Stewart....do tell? The truth is,you've never had much use for the elite American superstar and even you started a thread when you saw the opportunity to dump on him after a dim-witted HC had him on a checking line after a 41 goal campaign.....deny it. I absolutely DO NOT mock everyone here,just your plan of bringing in a bunch of vets so the team doesn't lose too much..........losing is necessary at this point and so are good draft picks. I've discussed just about every player on this roster with someone or the other at some point and my views are clear. If talented/elite 23&24 year old's aren't part of the rebuild,then tear it down,trade anything of value,have a few POOR seasons with the better picks they include and hope to hell Danny and Jaime take the game in a new direction I guess. If I had my druthers,MY plan would be getting experienced/proven hockey people in here to take complete control of the team unless KD reporting directly to the '2017 Liquor Executive of the year' makes more sense. Kubalik's a loser.....he's gone. Strome's over 23.....he's gone if we're rebuilding,trade him now that he's been given a chance to show how good he really is! Murphy and McCabe are worth about half of what they'll make and we can't afford even a drop of sweetener anymore so they either stay or the team retains $$$ or buys em both out in a year or three. Dach gets one more year on a show-me deal to prove he isn't a total bust. If you "ruin" kids by playing them,then maybe they'er the wrong kids. Some kids do need a little more time,especially D-men but if forwards aren't ready by 21-22 nowadays.........you're pissin' up a rope! I agree with just about everything you wrote here. Even your summaries of my views are for the most part accurate. One small correction - my feelings about Debrincat have nothing to do with his nationality. Some of my favorite Hawk players - Gary Suter, Chris Chelios, Jeremy Roenick etc, have been American born and raised. I certainly would keep Seth Jones unless blown away with an offer. Do I think Debrincat is overvalued here? You know I do. He is a small (and granted - elite) scoring forward with a tremendous shot, and he has benefited enormously playing on the first unit powerplay with feeds from the superstar, Patrick Kane. A smart general manager builds around defence and centres. Power forwards and goalies come third and fourth. Scoring wingers come last. The team needs help everywhere. I do not wish the team to commit big dollars and a NMC to this player (or any other winger). The reason for bringing in vets is not just to prevent the team from "losing too much." It is also to provide the kids with leadership and confidence. My first choice is for Kane and Toews to stay. But if they want to leave, I believe the team needs to replace them. I would also be looking for one or two other veterans on short term deals that could be flipped for prospects/picks next year. |
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Post by Nikos on Apr 12, 2022 13:57:03 GMT -6
I won't comment on your first two sentences,if you want to back off the things you said,I'm gonna go ahead and let ya. 'Mealy Mouth' strikes again! The alternative to more 'no man's land'? How about some top three picks for a team in desperate need of top three picks. Bringing in a few vets ONLY with picks attached is a great idea but doing so in an effort to have a respectable record makes zero sense. I'll move D-Cat this summer too,he deserves better than this open sewer.....who are these prospects you're slow cooking there Martha Stewart....do tell? The truth is,you've never had much use for the elite American superstar and even you started a thread when you saw the opportunity to dump on him after a dim-witted HC had him on a checking line after a 41 goal campaign.....deny it. I absolutely DO NOT mock everyone here,just your plan of bringing in a bunch of vets so the team doesn't lose too much..........losing is necessary at this point and so are good draft picks. I've discussed just about every player on this roster with someone or the other at some point and my views are clear. If talented/elite 23&24 year old's aren't part of the rebuild,then tear it down,trade anything of value,have a few POOR seasons with the better picks they include and hope to hell Danny and Jaime take the game in a new direction I guess. If I had my druthers,MY plan would be getting experienced/proven hockey people in here to take complete control of the team unless KD reporting directly to the '2017 Liquor Executive of the year' makes more sense. Kubalik's a loser.....he's gone. Strome's over 23.....he's gone if we're rebuilding,trade him now that he's been given a chance to show how good he really is! Murphy and McCabe are worth about half of what they'll make and we can't afford even a drop of sweetener anymore so they either stay or the team retains $$$ or buys em both out in a year or three. Dach gets one more year on a show-me deal to prove he isn't a total bust. If you "ruin" kids by playing them,then maybe they'er the wrong kids. Some kids do need a little more time,especially D-men but if forwards aren't ready by 21-22 nowadays.........you're pissin' up a rope! I agree with just about everything you wrote here. Even your summaries of my views are for the most part accurate. One small correction - my feelings about Debrincat have nothing to do with his nationality. Some of my favorite Hawk players - Gary Suter, Chris Chelios, Jeremy Roenick etc, have been American born and raised. I certainly would keep Seth Jones unless blown away with an offer. Do I think Debrincat is overvalued here? You know I do. He is a small (and granted - elite) scoring forward with a tremendous shot, and he has benefited enormously playing on the first unit powerplay with feeds from the superstar, Patrick Kane. A smart general manager builds around defence and centres. Power forwards and goalies come third and fourth. Scoring wingers come last. The team needs help everywhere. I do not wish the team to commit big dollars and a NMC to this player (or any other winger). The reason for bringing in vets is not just to prevent the team from "losing too much." It is also to provide the kids with leadership and confidence. My first choice is for Kane and Toews to stay. But if they want to leave, I believe the team needs to replace them. I would also be looking for one or two other veterans on short term deals that could be flipped for prospects/picks next year. MVR, regarding Debricant you make it sound like anyone can take those sweet dishes from 88 and snipe over the goalie's shoulders. There is a reason you assemble a team with power play and penalty units and put the players with the best skills to help your team win. Should we say the great 8 with the Capitals also benefits greatly and pads his stats since he gets those nice feeds from Backstrom and John Carlson on the power play? I know you have said many times that you like Debrincat, but since he is only a scoring winger, defense is mostly ok, will ask for a huge contract with NTC and wrong side of 23 the team should entertain offers and see what they can get. That is fine to hold that opinion and some others may also see it the same. Just do me a favor and give the kid some credit. He has battled and heard the size perception all his life and now career, he is as tough as they make them for his size, a leader as evident being chosen as an alternate captain, sticks up for his teammates, in my opinion has improved every year (I do not count that one year that JC destroyed the kid), your words elite scoring forward with tremendous shot. Yes he deserves better, but also some credit for the player he has become. These type of players do not just grow on trees, they help you WIN. Unfortunately the Cat will most likely not be winning here, he either will be moved or stuck on a team going the wrong way and very quickly. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Apr 12, 2022 14:42:50 GMT -6
I agree with just about everything you wrote here. Even your summaries of my views are for the most part accurate. One small correction - my feelings about Debrincat have nothing to do with his nationality. Some of my favorite Hawk players - Gary Suter, Chris Chelios, Jeremy Roenick etc, have been American born and raised. I certainly would keep Seth Jones unless blown away with an offer. Do I think Debrincat is overvalued here? You know I do. He is a small (and granted - elite) scoring forward with a tremendous shot, and he has benefited enormously playing on the first unit powerplay with feeds from the superstar, Patrick Kane. A smart general manager builds around defence and centres. Power forwards and goalies come third and fourth. Scoring wingers come last. The team needs help everywhere. I do not wish the team to commit big dollars and a NMC to this player (or any other winger). The reason for bringing in vets is not just to prevent the team from "losing too much." It is also to provide the kids with leadership and confidence. My first choice is for Kane and Toews to stay. But if they want to leave, I believe the team needs to replace them. I would also be looking for one or two other veterans on short term deals that could be flipped for prospects/picks next year. MVR, regarding Debricant you make it sound like anyone can take those sweet dishes from 88 and snipe over the goalie's shoulders. There is a reason you assemble a team with power play and penalty units and put the players with the best skills to help your team win. Should we say the great 8 with the Capitals also benefits greatly and pads his stats since he gets those nice feeds from Backstrom and John Carlson on the power play? I know you have said many times that you like Debrincat, but since he is only a scoring winger, defense is mostly ok, will ask for a huge contract with NTC and wrong side of 23 the team should entertain offers and see what they can get. That is fine to hold that opinion and some others may also see it the same. Just do me a favor and give the kid some credit. He has battled and heard the size perception all his life and now career, he is as tough as they make them for his size, a leader as evident being chosen as an alternate captain, sticks up for his teammates, in my opinion has improved every year (I do not count that one year that JC destroyed the kid), your words elite scoring forward with tremendous shot. Yes he deserves better, but also some credit for the player he has become. These type of players do not just grow on trees, they help you WIN. Unfortunately the Cat will most likely not be winning here, he either will be moved or stuck on a team going the wrong way and very quickly. You also have to figure what the return will be. With a kid like Debrincat if you are going to move him out you have to win, or at least position yourself to win on that trade. What the 'hawks can ill-afford to do is treat him like they did Panarin. In retrospect I think if the 'hawks kept Panarin and flipped him in his expiry TDL (granted, that would take a real GM and not a legume-reckoner), they would have got at least a Prince's ransom, if not a King's ransom for him. Contrast to what happened: he got flipped for Saad who didn't pan out anything like we hoped he would (Debrincat is more of a Mini-Hossa than Saad was in his 2nd go-around), who was flipped for Zadorov, who was not that good, for a 3rd rounder who we'll see if we can do anything with that pick this draft in the 3rd round. There's a drop-off there. Moving Debrincat for the sake of moving Debrincat is a fool's errand. Like Hagel before him, Debrincat is a Blue-chip piece based on what he brings and his contract status. He should only be sold high. The return has to be good and has to position the 'hawks better in their rebuild. Don't get me wrong, like Hagel it will suck to lose him, but by the time the 'hawks are realistically ready to compete again he'll be on the wrong side of 30. |
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Post by mvr on Apr 12, 2022 15:56:41 GMT -6
I don't know what's left for me to say here about Debrincat.
I think he is a good player - a very good one, and I have said so dozens of times. But I also think many here over-value him.
I see him as a Rick Vaive (without the size and physicality). Vaive had a long career both here and in Toronto (where he was the captain). He was a pure goal scorer, among the best of his era.
I also compare him to Jeff Skinner from his early days. Skinner had some very big years with Carolina. The numbers are comparable.
Debrincat is without question the best forward on the present team (with the exception of Kane). Goal scorers do not grow on trees. The return in a trade would have to be a good one. I expect it will be. If it isn't, you wait.
My issue is the contract. I am concerned about Debrincat's long-term production. Goal scorers such as Skinner and Vaive peak early and tend to fade away younger than other positions. The hands go first. This team is very early in a rebuild.
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Post by Nikos on Apr 12, 2022 16:12:45 GMT -6
I don't know what's left for me to say here about Debrincat. I think he is a good player - a very good one, and I have said so dozens of times. But I also think many here over-value him. I see him as a Rick Vaive (without the size and physicality). Vaive had a long career both here and in Toronto (where he was the captain). He was a pure goal scorer, among the best of his era. I also compare him to Jeff Skinner from his early days. Skinner had some very big years with Carolina. The numbers are comparable. Debrincat is without question the best forward on the present team (with the exception of Kane). Goal scorers do not grow on trees. The return in a trade would have to be a good one. I expect it will be. If it isn't, you wait. My issue is the contract. I am concerned about Debrincat's long-term production. Goal scorers such as Skinner and Vaive peak early and tend to fade away younger than other positions. The hands go first. This team is very early in a rebuild. My main and only point was let's give him some credit for who he is (overcoming obstacles, barriers and perception about his size), what he has become (leader & elite scorer), you said as part of your response he has benefited enormously playing on the first unit powerplay with feeds from the superstar, Patrick Kane. It is almost like anyone can snipe like he does, who shall we put on the first power play unit? So it is his fault that Kane is on his team? It takes a team to win. Btw, Kane made Panarin a lot of money. |
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Post by Nikos on Apr 12, 2022 16:17:57 GMT -6
You have stated your case about why you believe he should be moved with some valid points and thoughts. I am ok with your take and opinion, that is what makes this fun, lively debate. Others may see it your way and others may have a different view.
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Post by mvr on Apr 12, 2022 16:45:48 GMT -6
No question, Nikos.
I guess my feeling is that Patrick Kane, if anything, is underappreciated here. Whatever line he is on immediately starts scoring. Al Secord was a 50 goal scorer playing every night with Denis Savard. Phil Esposito scored 76 one year playing with Bobby Orr.
Let's see if Debrincat continues to produce (in even strength situations) at even close to the same rate without Kane. I know that Kane will continue to produce without Debrincat.
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Post by hsbob on Apr 13, 2022 8:16:25 GMT -6
I don't know what's left for me to say here about Debrincat. I think he is a good player - a very good one, and I have said so dozens of times. But I also think many here over-value him. I see him as a Rick Vaive (without the size and physicality). Vaive had a long career both here and in Toronto (where he was the captain). He was a pure goal scorer, among the best of his era. I also compare him to Jeff Skinner from his early days. Skinner had some very big years with Carolina. The numbers are comparable. Debrincat is without question the best forward on the present team (with the exception of Kane). Goal scorers do not grow on trees. The return in a trade would have to be a good one. I expect it will be. If it isn't, you wait. My issue is the contract. I am concerned about Debrincat's long-term production. Goal scorers such as Skinner and Vaive peak early and tend to fade away younger than other positions. The hands go first. This team is very early in a rebuild. So at least you consider him the 2nd best forward on the team,that's a breakthrough....LOL. Jeff Skinner went into Toronto and potted his 31st of the year last night helping the Sabres spank the Leafs. The Leafs must smell the PO's. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 13, 2022 8:50:14 GMT -6
No question, Nikos. I guess my feeling is that Patrick Kane, if anything, is underappreciated here. Whatever line he is on immediately starts scoring. Al Secord was a 50 goal scorer playing every night with Denis Savard. Phil Esposito scored 76 one year playing with Bobby Orr. Let's see if Debrincat continues to produce (in even strength situations) at even close to the same rate without Kane. I know that Kane will continue to produce without Debrincat. Twice on this page,you've stated how many overvalue D-Cat and then state how underappreciated the Hawks most popular player ever Patrick Kane is.......let's take a closer look.... These are the players first five years and I think it's safe to say Kane had a MUCM MUCH better team around him. Alex DeBrincat's first five seasons minus the 9 games left,the 42 lost to Covid and the year he was forced into a checking role...... 359 games 158 goals(.440GPG) 296 points(.824PPG) Patrick Kane's first five years,no Covid and no coaching mis-use... 399 games 126 goals(.315GPG) 369 points(.924PPG) D-Cat is the better goals scorer through their first five seasons Kane is the better passer,one of the games best to be more accurate. Kane averaged .609 assists per game in his first five years and D-Cat averaged .384......who had the better goal scorers to pass to? Who's the better defensive player? Who's better along the boards? Who's more physical? I think these are fair questions,keeping in mind Patrick Kane is a three time cup winning,clutch goal scoring.generational great. edit: D-Cat is YET to miss a single game to injury and Kane has been very durable for his size as well. IMO the kid had a great to learn from and he learned well! |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 13, 2022 8:53:29 GMT -6
I won't comment on your first two sentences,if you want to back off the things you said,I'm gonna go ahead and let ya. 'Mealy Mouth' strikes again! The alternative to more 'no man's land'? How about some top three picks for a team in desperate need of top three picks. Bringing in a few vets ONLY with picks attached is a great idea but doing so in an effort to have a respectable record makes zero sense. I'll move D-Cat this summer too,he deserves better than this open sewer.....who are these prospects you're slow cooking there Martha Stewart....do tell? The truth is,you've never had much use for the elite American superstar and even you started a thread when you saw the opportunity to dump on him after a dim-witted HC had him on a checking line after a 41 goal campaign.....deny it. I absolutely DO NOT mock everyone here,just your plan of bringing in a bunch of vets so the team doesn't lose too much..........losing is necessary at this point and so are good draft picks. I've discussed just about every player on this roster with someone or the other at some point and my views are clear. If talented/elite 23&24 year old's aren't part of the rebuild,then tear it down,trade anything of value,have a few POOR seasons with the better picks they include and hope to hell Danny and Jaime take the game in a new direction I guess. If I had my druthers,MY plan would be getting experienced/proven hockey people in here to take complete control of the team unless KD reporting directly to the '2017 Liquor Executive of the year' makes more sense. Kubalik's a loser.....he's gone. Strome's over 23.....he's gone if we're rebuilding,trade him now that he's been given a chance to show how good he really is! Murphy and McCabe are worth about half of what they'll make and we can't afford even a drop of sweetener anymore so they either stay or the team retains $$$ or buys em both out in a year or three. Dach gets one more year on a show-me deal to prove he isn't a total bust. If you "ruin" kids by playing them,then maybe they'er the wrong kids. Some kids do need a little more time,especially D-men but if forwards aren't ready by 21-22 nowadays.........you're pissin' up a rope! I agree with just about everything you wrote here. Even your summaries of my views are for the most part accurate. One small correction - my feelings about Debrincat have nothing to do with his nationality. Some of my favorite Hawk players - Gary Suter, Chris Chelios, Jeremy Roenick etc, have been American born and raised. I certainly would keep Seth Jones unless blown away with an offer. Do I think Debrincat is overvalued here? You know I do. He is a small (and granted - elite) scoring forward with a tremendous shot, and he has benefited enormously playing on the first unit powerplay with feeds from the superstar, Patrick Kane. A smart general manager builds around defence and centres. Power forwards and goalies come third and fourth. Scoring wingers come last. The team needs help everywhere. I do not wish the team to commit big dollars and a NMC to this player (or any other winger). The reason for bringing in vets is not just to prevent the team from "losing too much." It is also to provide the kids with leadership and confidence. My first choice is for Kane and Toews to stay. But if they want to leave, I believe the team needs to replace them. I would also be looking for one or two other veterans on short term deals that could be flipped for prospects/picks next year. Thanks for the civil response and I'll do my best to keep er on the rails too. I referred to D-Cat as an elite American sniper as much out of pride as anything else but that's another thing I can let go of going forward. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Apr 13, 2022 9:04:52 GMT -6
No question, Nikos. I guess my feeling is that Patrick Kane, if anything, is underappreciated here. Whatever line he is on immediately starts scoring. Al Secord was a 50 goal scorer playing every night with Denis Savard. Phil Esposito scored 76 one year playing with Bobby Orr. Let's see if Debrincat continues to produce (in even strength situations) at even close to the same rate without Kane. I know that Kane will continue to produce without Debrincat. I don't think Kane is under-appreciated. He is one of the few players who in recent memory could effectively carry the offense of his own line. The last player for the 'hawks not named Kane to do so was Hossa, who managed to carry the offensive black hole known as Kruger, as well as Hartman on the 3rd line as well as providing smothering defense; it's why he's the 1st and last player for the 'hawks to wear 81, and it's the same reason why Kane will be the 1st and last player to wear 88 for the 'hawks. Kane can both set up and score his own goals, but unless someone actually finishes his feeds his assist rate will go down. Conversely, not every Patrick Kane feed is placed so perfectly that even Dylan Sikura can beat the goaltender with it. Further, this isn't the 1980's and Members Only™ jackets are not back in style--so no forward can stumble into 39 goals in a season; they have to have goaltender-beating finishing ability to get to those numbers. I think it stands to logic that unless Debrincat is paired with a player who can feed him the puck, his scoring will go down. The question is: how much? We know Debrincat can snipe with the best of them; my estimation is he won't drop below 20/season at the absolute worst without Kane. Conversely, without a guy like Debrincat to finish, Kane's assist rate will go down. Kane might be able to make up for it by scoring goals on his own. I think everyone is generally on the same page, though. Debrincat is a blue-chip asset but he's also the type of player who, like Kane before him, tends to come in at the tail end of a rebuild as opposed to the start or a rebuild. Kane would have been wasted on the 2006 team and there's the same argument that Debrincat is wasted on the 2022 team. If Debrincat can be parlayed into real assets the 'hawks need (like defensemen who can actually defend), by all means you make that move. If not you don't sell low. I think the sticking point is what is considered a fair return for him. Based on the recent TDL it should be a haul better than Hagel's in my opinion |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 13, 2022 9:34:56 GMT -6
No question, Nikos. I guess my feeling is that Patrick Kane, if anything, is underappreciated here. Whatever line he is on immediately starts scoring. Al Secord was a 50 goal scorer playing every night with Denis Savard. Phil Esposito scored 76 one year playing with Bobby Orr. Let's see if Debrincat continues to produce (in even strength situations) at even close to the same rate without Kane. I know that Kane will continue to produce without Debrincat. The kid has 25 even strength goals this year,Kane and Strome are tied for 2nd with 15.....the rest of the team....hind tit. He's also 3rd in PP assists,it could be more but the next three PP goal scorers after D-Cat(Kane,Strome,JT)have 17 combined. Fifty two career PP goals and 45 career PP assists suggests he sets others up too.....on a much weaker team than Kane was on at this point of their careers. Kane is a great passer and playmaker without a doubt but why is D-Cat the only Hawk able to take advantage........a great pass w/o a finish is terrible thing to waste! |
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Post by LordKOTL on Apr 13, 2022 9:41:49 GMT -6
No question, Nikos. I guess my feeling is that Patrick Kane, if anything, is underappreciated here. Whatever line he is on immediately starts scoring. Al Secord was a 50 goal scorer playing every night with Denis Savard. Phil Esposito scored 76 one year playing with Bobby Orr. Let's see if Debrincat continues to produce (in even strength situations) at even close to the same rate without Kane. I know that Kane will continue to produce without Debrincat. The kid has 25 even strength goals this year,Kane and Strome are tied for 2nd with 15.....the rest of the team....hind tit. He's also 3rd in PP assists,it could be more but the next three PP goal scorers after D-Cat(Kane,Strome,JT)have 17 combined. Fifty two career PP goals and 45 career PP assists suggests he sets others up too.....on a much weaker team than Kane was on at this point of their careers. Kane is a great passer and playmaker without a doubt but why is D-Cat the only Hawk able to take advantage........a great pass w/o a finish is terrible thing to waste! This exactly. At some point someone has to beat the goaltender. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 13, 2022 9:47:44 GMT -6
No question, Nikos. I guess my feeling is that Patrick Kane, if anything, is underappreciated here. Whatever line he is on immediately starts scoring. Al Secord was a 50 goal scorer playing every night with Denis Savard. Phil Esposito scored 76 one year playing with Bobby Orr. Let's see if Debrincat continues to produce (in even strength situations) at even close to the same rate without Kane. I know that Kane will continue to produce without Debrincat. I don't think Kane is under-appreciated. He is one of the few players who in recent memory could effectively carry the offense of his own line. The last player for the 'hawks not named Kane to do so was Hossa, who managed to carry the offensive black hole known as Kruger, as well as Hartman on the 3rd line as well as providing smothering defense; it's why he's the 1st and last player for the 'hawks to wear 81, and it's the same reason why Kane will be the 1st and last player to wear 88 for the 'hawks. Kane can both set up and score his own goals, but unless someone actually finishes his feeds his assist rate will go down. Conversely, not every Patrick Kane feed is placed so perfectly that even Dylan Sikura can beat the goaltender with it. Further, this isn't the 1980's and Members Only™ jackets are not back in style--so no forward can stumble into 39 goals in a season; they have to have goaltender-beating finishing ability to get to those numbers. I think it stands to logic that unless Debrincat is paired with a player who can feed him the puck, his scoring will go down. The question is: how much? We know Debrincat can snipe with the best of them; my estimation is he won't drop below 20/season at the absolute worst without Kane. Conversely, without a guy like Debrincat to finish, Kane's assist rate will go down. Kane might be able to make up for it by scoring goals on his own. I think everyone is generally on the same page, though. Debrincat is a blue-chip asset but he's also the type of player who, like Kane before him, tends to come in at the tail end of a rebuild as opposed to the start or a rebuild. Kane would have been wasted on the 2006 team and there's the same argument that Debrincat is wasted on the 2022 team. If Debrincat can be parlayed into real assets the 'hawks need (like defensemen who can actually defend), by all means you make that move. If not you don't sell low. I think the sticking point is what is considered a fair return for him. Based on the recent TDL it should be a haul better than Hagel's in my opinion I remember Big Hoss with JT and Saad a lot more my friend but yeah.......he could carry a line while playing shut down defense at the same time......VERY RARE. |
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Post by mvr on Apr 13, 2022 9:58:30 GMT -6
King broke up the Kane, Debrincat, Strome line three games ago.
Since then, Kane has 3 points, slightly below his season output. Debrincat and Strome both have zero. Small sample size - I know.
But let's not kid ourselves..........
Even now, it does not matter much who Kane plays with. He will produce offence, and his linemates will score. He is that good. Kurashev (3 points) Toews (2 points) and Raddysh (2 points) are now scoring.
Brad Richards and Michael Handzus suddenly found the Fountain of Youth when paired with Patrick Kane. Debrincat is an elite scorer. But he is not Kane.
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Post by hsbob on Apr 13, 2022 10:10:11 GMT -6
King broke up the Kane, Debrincat, Strome line three games ago. Since then, Kane has 3 points, slightly below his season output. Debrincat and Strome both have zero. Small sample size - I know. But let's not kid ourselves.......... Even now, it does not matter much who Kane plays with. He will produce offence, and his linemates will score. He is that good. Kurashev (3 points) Toews (2 points) and Raddysh (2 points) are now scoring. Brad Richards and Michael Handzus suddenly found the Fountain of Youth when paired with Patrick Kane. Debrincat is an elite scorer. But he is not Kane. D-Cat potted FORTY ONE,27 of em 5 on 5 as a sophomore(I doubt I'll see another Hawk do that in my lifetime) and he did it mostly with Strome and Perlini. What did you think of the comparison of their first five seasons? |
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Post by LordKOTL on Apr 13, 2022 10:16:14 GMT -6
I don't think Kane is under-appreciated. He is one of the few players who in recent memory could effectively carry the offense of his own line. The last player for the 'hawks not named Kane to do so was Hossa, who managed to carry the offensive black hole known as Kruger, as well as Hartman on the 3rd line as well as providing smothering defense; it's why he's the 1st and last player for the 'hawks to wear 81, and it's the same reason why Kane will be the 1st and last player to wear 88 for the 'hawks. Kane can both set up and score his own goals, but unless someone actually finishes his feeds his assist rate will go down. Conversely, not every Patrick Kane feed is placed so perfectly that even Dylan Sikura can beat the goaltender with it. Further, this isn't the 1980's and Members Only™ jackets are not back in style--so no forward can stumble into 39 goals in a season; they have to have goaltender-beating finishing ability to get to those numbers. I think it stands to logic that unless Debrincat is paired with a player who can feed him the puck, his scoring will go down. The question is: how much? We know Debrincat can snipe with the best of them; my estimation is he won't drop below 20/season at the absolute worst without Kane. Conversely, without a guy like Debrincat to finish, Kane's assist rate will go down. Kane might be able to make up for it by scoring goals on his own. I think everyone is generally on the same page, though. Debrincat is a blue-chip asset but he's also the type of player who, like Kane before him, tends to come in at the tail end of a rebuild as opposed to the start or a rebuild. Kane would have been wasted on the 2006 team and there's the same argument that Debrincat is wasted on the 2022 team. If Debrincat can be parlayed into real assets the 'hawks need (like defensemen who can actually defend), by all means you make that move. If not you don't sell low. I think the sticking point is what is considered a fair return for him. Based on the recent TDL it should be a haul better than Hagel's in my opinion I remember Big Hoss with JT and Saad a lot more my friend but yeah.......he could carry a line while playing shut down defense at the same time......VERY RARE. There's no question that Hossa/JT/Saad had much more time together and were very effective. I just think it speaks to how good Hossa was that he was stationed on the 3rd line with Hartman and Kruger and was still 3rd on the team in goals (Even strength or otherwise), played solid defense, and was 37-38 years old at the time. He didn't have the set-up ability Kane has, but his D as a forward was beyond compare (with the exception of Datsyuk). To paraphrase Weiderman, "The fact that he never got a Selke only because he's a winger is a travesty." His 3-zone ability was just that good. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 13, 2022 10:29:12 GMT -6
I remember Big Hoss with JT and Saad a lot more my friend but yeah.......he could carry a line while playing shut down defense at the same time......VERY RARE. There's no question that Hossa/JT/Saad had much more time together and were very effective. I just think it speaks to how good Hossa was that he was stationed on the 3rd line with Hartman and Kruger and was still 3rd on the team in goals (Even strength or otherwise), played solid defense, and was 37-38 years old at the time. He didn't have the set-up ability Kane has, but his D as a forward was beyond compare (with the exception of Datsyuk). To paraphrase Weiderman, "The fact that he never got a Selke only because he's a winger is a travesty." His 3-zone ability was just that good. Speaking of Hartman,how about the hardnosed 27yro goin' nose-nose with E Kane after Kane cross-checked his elite linemate and pottin' #'s 28&29 while blowin' out the Oil. www.hockeywilderness.com/2022/4/13/23023540/ryan-hartman-evander-kane-minnesota-wild-edmonton-oilers-gamewww.hockeywilderness.com/2022/4/13/23023107/minnesota-wild-ryan-hartman-oilers-evander-kane-nhl |
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Post by LordKOTL on Apr 13, 2022 10:39:47 GMT -6
There's no question that Hossa/JT/Saad had much more time together and were very effective. I just think it speaks to how good Hossa was that he was stationed on the 3rd line with Hartman and Kruger and was still 3rd on the team in goals (Even strength or otherwise), played solid defense, and was 37-38 years old at the time. He didn't have the set-up ability Kane has, but his D as a forward was beyond compare (with the exception of Datsyuk). To paraphrase Weiderman, "The fact that he never got a Selke only because he's a winger is a travesty." His 3-zone ability was just that good. Speaking of Hartman,how about the hardnosed 27yro goin' nose-nose with E Kane after Kane cross-checked his elite linemate and pottin' #'s 28&29 while blowin' out the Oil. Yeah. I miss having players with that kind of pack mentality who are not shorter than 5'8 on the team. Granted, Stillman was trying to be a one-man wrecking crew last night, but gone are the days when Eager would feed Bieksa his lunch. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 13, 2022 12:00:21 GMT -6
Speaking of Hartman,how about the hardnosed 27yro goin' nose-nose with E Kane after Kane cross-checked his elite linemate and pottin' #'s 28&29 while blowin' out the Oil. Yeah. I miss having players with that kind of pack mentality who are not shorter than 5'8 on the team. Granted, Stillman was trying to be a one-man wrecking crew last night, but gone are the days when Eager would feed Bieksa his lunch. I've liked Stillman's tenacity since the first time I saw him,makes me wonder if he's around next year. |
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