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Post by chicagojay88 on May 25, 2022 4:45:59 GMT -6
“88” had his Duo…what do ya’ll think? Bottom line, that still pisses me off.
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Post by BigT on May 25, 2022 5:43:07 GMT -6
The return for a superstar was less than stellar. I like Saad. But there should have been much much more involved. Panera had a 2 year contract at 6 million per just about to kick in, and all the last guy did was swap out the same amount of money. Saad is half the player Panera is. I think that was the time to do a rebuild. Trade Panera for futures. Like a couple 1st rounders and or high level prospects. They could have traded a lot of guys and retooled for another run. But the smartest guy in the room failed at everything he did. Panera for Saad is just a stupid trade. Trades like that and the other 29 the last guy made have set the organization back years if not decades!!!
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Post by OldTimeHawky on May 25, 2022 6:17:58 GMT -6
Yeah trading Panarin wasn't a mistake, it was a mistake that the last gm did it straight up for Saad. Very stupid move when they could've got picks and prospects as well.
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Post by T-man2010 on May 25, 2022 6:40:45 GMT -6
The return for a superstar was less than stellar. I like Saad. But there should have been much much more involved. Panera had a 2 year contract at 6 million per just about to kick in, and all the last guy did was swap out the same amount of money. Saad is half the player Panera is. I think that was the time to do a rebuild. Trade Panera for futures. Like a couple 1st rounders and or high level prospects. They could have traded a lot of guys and retooled for another run. But the smartest guy in the room failed at everything he did. Panera for Saad is just a stupid trade. Trades like that and the other 29 the last guy made have set the organization back years if not decades!!! I thought at the time bad move, but I understood why. Panarin was going to want that big payday contract of 10+ mill and the Hawks were never going to be in contention for that. Panarins GF wanted the glitzy lifestyle of NY or LA. They probably figured that getting Saad for the same money would be exactly what Toews needed for his line. Power forward and defensive minded too. But Saad and Toews never got the magic back. Maybe due to not having Hossa on the other wing made a big difference. Kane would still be Kane regardless of who was on his line. |
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Post by Nikos on May 25, 2022 7:12:05 GMT -6
The return for a superstar was less than stellar. I like Saad. But there should have been much much more involved. Panera had a 2 year contract at 6 million per just about to kick in, and all the last guy did was swap out the same amount of money. Saad is half the player Panera is. I think that was the time to do a rebuild. Trade Panera for futures. Like a couple 1st rounders and or high level prospects. They could have traded a lot of guys and retooled for another run. But the smartest guy in the room failed at everything he did. Panera for Saad is just a stupid trade. Trades like that and the other 29 the last guy made have set the organization back years if not decades!!! I thought at the time bad move, but I understood why. Panarin was going to want that big payday contract of 10+ mill and the Hawks were never going to be in contention for that. Panarins GF wanted the glitzy lifestyle of NY or LA. They probably figured that getting Saad for the same money would be exactly what Toews needed for his line. Power forward and defensive minded too. But Saad and Toews never got the magic back. Maybe due to not having Hossa on the other wing made a big difference. Kane would still be Kane regardless of who was on his line. After losing in 16 and 17 (swept) and with Panarin on the verge of looking at a $10M contract to start Bowman rolled the dice and felt Saad might be a better playoff fit then the breadman. I recall in the 2017 Preds series that Panarin was nearly invisible, although he was not the only one. In hindsight Bowman should have started the rebuild like BigT said, but the rest is history and he we are. Not sure what the statue of limitations are for General Managers making dumb moves, Bowman should be arrested, tried, convicted and put in jail for the harm he did to not only to the team, the city, but all of the fans (not the bandwagon ones) who are passionate and love this team. |
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Post by BigT on May 25, 2022 7:16:35 GMT -6
The return for a superstar was less than stellar. I like Saad. But there should have been much much more involved. Panera had a 2 year contract at 6 million per just about to kick in, and all the last guy did was swap out the same amount of money. Saad is half the player Panera is. I think that was the time to do a rebuild. Trade Panera for futures. Like a couple 1st rounders and or high level prospects. They could have traded a lot of guys and retooled for another run. But the smartest guy in the room failed at everything he did. Panera for Saad is just a stupid trade. Trades like that and the other 29 the last guy made have set the organization back years if not decades!!! I thought at the time bad move, but I understood why. Panarin was going to want that big payday contract of 10+ mill and the Hawks were never going to be in contention for that. Panarins GF wanted the glitzy lifestyle of NY or LA. They probably figured that getting Saad for the same money would be exactly what Toews needed for his line. Power forward and defensive minded too. But Saad and Toews never got the magic back. Maybe due to not having Hossa on the other wing made a big difference. Kane would still be Kane regardless of who was on his line. See, the money was a moot point. Panera still had 2 years left. That’s a lot of time to make things work. Or trade him. He signed him just to trade him. Panera also said he wanted to stay in Chicago and wouldn’t have asked for that much. I’m sure he wanted 9 million still. But it was doable to keep him. And if not. Get some youth in there. Something the hawks never had. And still don’t. Saad was never that great. I know Hawks fans will say different. He was never ever a Hossa clone. He was just on a line with 2 hall of famers. I mean, that’s a luxury really no one else has. When he returned with a worn out Toews and no Hossa. Things looked like they would with an average player not on a line with 2 HoF players. Again, this is a horrible move on the last guy. He could not judge talent. With him, it was a race to the bottom!!! |
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Post by BigT on May 25, 2022 7:18:44 GMT -6
I thought at the time bad move, but I understood why. Panarin was going to want that big payday contract of 10+ mill and the Hawks were never going to be in contention for that. Panarins GF wanted the glitzy lifestyle of NY or LA. They probably figured that getting Saad for the same money would be exactly what Toews needed for his line. Power forward and defensive minded too. But Saad and Toews never got the magic back. Maybe due to not having Hossa on the other wing made a big difference. Kane would still be Kane regardless of who was on his line. After losing in 16 and 17 (swept) and with Panarin on the verge of looking at a $10M contract to start Bowman rolled the dice and felt Saad might be a better playoff fit then the breadman. I recall in the 2017 Preds series that Panarin was nearly invisible, although he was not the only one. In hindsight Bowman should have started the rebuild like BigT said, but the rest is history and he we are. Not sure what the statue of limitations are for General Managers making dumb moves, Bowman should be arrested, tried, convicted and put in jail for the harm he did to not only to the team, the city, but all of the fans (not the bandwagon ones) who are passionate and love this team. Again. Panera had just signed for 6 million. There was no rush to trade him. He had 2 full years left in his new bridge deal. Panera also said he’d take less to stay. It was a move to piss off Q. He got rid of 2 guys Q loved. Hammer and Panera. That’s why Q didn’t even show up at the draft that one day!!! |
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Post by Nikos on May 25, 2022 8:53:34 GMT -6
After losing in 16 and 17 (swept) and with Panarin on the verge of looking at a $10M contract to start Bowman rolled the dice and felt Saad might be a better playoff fit then the breadman. I recall in the 2017 Preds series that Panarin was nearly invisible, although he was not the only one. In hindsight Bowman should have started the rebuild like BigT said, but the rest is history and he we are. Not sure what the statue of limitations are for General Managers making dumb moves, Bowman should be arrested, tried, convicted and put in jail for the harm he did to not only to the team, the city, but all of the fans (not the bandwagon ones) who are passionate and love this team. Again. Panera had just signed for 6 million. There was no rush to trade him. He had 2 full years left in his new bridge deal. Panera also said he’d take less to stay. It was a move to piss off Q. He got rid of 2 guys Q loved. Hammer and Panera. That’s why Q didn’t even show up at the draft that one day!!! I am not disagreeing with you on the rush to trade, from what I recall back then Bowman felt a need for a more "heavier" player to win in the payoffs. I personally think it was an overreaction being swept, and the team was "gassed" from all those playoff runs. Even though a higher payday was a couple years away for Panarin Bowman wanted cost certainty from a cap perspective and Saad fit the bill since he had I believe 4 years left on his deal and Panarin had only 2. I am not defending the move just pointing out what was his rationale as it was reported back then. I do agree with you that he should have started the rebuild then, but most likely could not sell it to McDonough. |
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Post by BigT on May 25, 2022 10:03:11 GMT -6
Again. Panera had just signed for 6 million. There was no rush to trade him. He had 2 full years left in his new bridge deal. Panera also said he’d take less to stay. It was a move to piss off Q. He got rid of 2 guys Q loved. Hammer and Panera. That’s why Q didn’t even show up at the draft that one day!!! I am not disagreeing with you on the rush to trade, from what I recall back then Bowman felt a need for a more "heavier" player to win in the payoffs. I personally think it was an overreaction being swept, and the team was "gassed" from all those playoff runs. Even though a higher payday was a couple years away for Panarin Bowman wanted cost certainty from a cap perspective and Saad fit the bill since he had I believe 4 years left on his deal and Panarin had only 2. I am not defending the move just pointing out what was his rationale as it was reported back then. I do agree with you that he should have started the rebuild then, but most likely could not sell it to McDonough. I believe it was the last guy trying to get his coach fired. I also don’t believe the last GM had many friends left as he sewered Q and also got McD fired. He traded Panera and Hammer on the same day to send a message. If the Hawks were going for it, wouldn’t it have been smart to keep Hammer and Panera? And if you weren’t, wouldn’t it have been smarter to get some younger kids and or decent picks. I know no one is sticking up for the last guy. His way of doing things wreaked of the inexperience and a life of not having friends!!! |
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Post by nighbor on May 25, 2022 14:11:18 GMT -6
The return for a superstar was less than stellar. I like Saad. But there should have been much much more involved. Panera had a 2 year contract at 6 million per just about to kick in, and all the last guy did was swap out the same amount of money. Saad is half the player Panera is. I think that was the time to do a rebuild. Trade Panera for futures. Like a couple 1st rounders and or high level prospects. They could have traded a lot of guys and retooled for another run. But the smartest guy in the room failed at everything he did. Panera for Saad is just a stupid trade. Trades like that and the other 29 the last guy made have set the organization back years if not decades!!! If Stan failed in everything he did we would not have won in '13 or '15. You would have us believe that he did nothing right and still have a job. After '10 he could have let the Sharks sign both Nieme and Hjalmarsson. Back to the topic. The Duo was nowhere to be found in game one or four where one goal would have made a difference. Obviously everyone could have contributed more. |
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Post by squishy24 on May 25, 2022 16:03:53 GMT -6
it was an inevitable trade. i understood the need and the return of Saad, but SB should have asked for more. We can debate if its good or not, bottom line it was a lousy return
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Post by nighbor on May 25, 2022 16:08:27 GMT -6
After losing in 16 and 17 (swept) and with Panarin on the verge of looking at a $10M contract to start Bowman rolled the dice and felt Saad might be a better playoff fit then the breadman. I recall in the 2017 Preds series that Panarin was nearly invisible, although he was not the only one. In hindsight Bowman should have started the rebuild like BigT said, but the rest is history and he we are. Not sure what the statue of limitations are for General Managers making dumb moves, Bowman should be arrested, tried, convicted and put in jail for the harm he did to not only to the team, the city, but all of the fans (not the bandwagon ones) who are passionate and love this team. Again. Panera had just signed for 6 million. There was no rush to trade him. He had 2 full years left in his new bridge deal. Panera also said he’d take less to stay. It was a move to piss off Q. He got rid of 2 guys Q loved. Hammer and Panera. That’s why Q didn’t even show up at the draft that one day!!! Q pouted because Stan fired Mike Kitchen. Hjalmarsson was living on the edge with his kamikaze style of shot blocking and a younger more conventional shot blocker Murphy was available and is still playing and blocking shots whereas the Hammer is retired. Stan the bean counting GM made his calculations and the sum of which was Saad not Panarin. The Blackhawks couldn't gamble that in two years Panarin wouldn't change his mind about the discount or even if it would have made a difference. |
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Post by steamer on May 25, 2022 16:24:31 GMT -6
Stan should definitely have received more than just Saad for Panarin. There is something to the disappearing act of lighter players in the playoffs - witness Johnny G (or “H”) while heavy EK muscles his way to the goal. But Saad is not a heavy player in my book.
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Post by LordKOTL on May 25, 2022 17:54:58 GMT -6
After losing in 16 and 17 (swept) and with Panarin on the verge of looking at a $10M contract to start Bowman rolled the dice and felt Saad might be a better playoff fit then the breadman. I recall in the 2017 Preds series that Panarin was nearly invisible, although he was not the only one. In hindsight Bowman should have started the rebuild like BigT said, but the rest is history and he we are. Not sure what the statue of limitations are for General Managers making dumb moves, Bowman should be arrested, tried, convicted and put in jail for the harm he did to not only to the team, the city, but all of the fans (not the bandwagon ones) who are passionate and love this team. Again. Panera had just signed for 6 million. There was no rush to trade him. He had 2 full years left in his new bridge deal. Panera also said he’d take less to stay. It was a move to piss off Q. He got rid of 2 guys Q loved. Hammer and Panera. That’s why Q didn’t even show up at the draft that one day!!! Exactly. I got Saad at the time but that trade was an unmitigated disaster. They should have kept Panarin until his expiry TDL and made a fortune. However, I wouldn't trust Bowman the Beancounter to make that move. Chances are he'd probably have traded Panarin for another retread past his prime. |
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Post by BigT on May 25, 2022 18:03:11 GMT -6
Worst part is this Fellas. The last guy traded Panera for Saad. Then traded Saad for Zadorov. Then trade Zadorov for a fuckin 3rd rounder. All that down grading in a gawd dam year. What a fuckin beauty the last guy was. I can see why they kept him for so long.
I get it that some trades don’t pan out. I do. But when you constantly shoot yourself in the foot and try to run a marathon. That’s some cheeky shit right there. What a horrible chain of events. Just awful!!!
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Post by bigbarn27 on May 25, 2022 18:16:08 GMT -6
After this summer I will be done talking about any of the moves that idiot did. Like Tman said I get why he did it but at the end of the day he panicked. As was said before they had him signed for 2 years
Stan wanted the news to be about him the draft was here and he wanted to strut around like a peacock. But all he did was get less respect that was shown by us in attendance when Florida made there pick!!
Q didnt pout he was furious Hammer was one of his guys and dumb dumb moved him without talking to him. We have been down this path many times I will continue to be down with talking about how we are gonna move forward
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Post by hsbob on May 26, 2022 11:35:55 GMT -6
Again. Panera had just signed for 6 million. There was no rush to trade him. He had 2 full years left in his new bridge deal. Panera also said he’d take less to stay. It was a move to piss off Q. He got rid of 2 guys Q loved. Hammer and Panera. That’s why Q didn’t even show up at the draft that one day!!! Q pouted because Stan fired Mike Kitchen. Hjalmarsson was living on the edge with his kamikaze style of shot blocking and a younger more conventional shot blocker Murphy was available and is still playing and blocking shots whereas the Hammer is retired. Stan the bean counting GM made his calculations and the sum of which was Saad not Panarin. The Blackhawks couldn't gamble that in two years Panarin wouldn't change his mind about the discount or even if it would have made a difference. Why would any GM,let alone an abstract failure, interfere with his HoF HC's staff? The sum of Saad vs Panarin shows Panarin as one of the games best players every year since the trade and Saad as a complimentary piece.......Panarin was worth much more and has proved that unequivocally!! Muphy is now a concussed/often injured in other ways shell of a player who was average at best with little offense but DUMBASS re-signed him for an untradable 4.4MX4 anyway! |
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Post by nighbor on May 26, 2022 15:25:29 GMT -6
Q pouted because Stan fired Mike Kitchen. Hjalmarsson was living on the edge with his kamikaze style of shot blocking and a younger more conventional shot blocker Murphy was available and is still playing and blocking shots whereas the Hammer is retired. Stan the bean counting GM made his calculations and the sum of which was Saad not Panarin. The Blackhawks couldn't gamble that in two years Panarin wouldn't change his mind about the discount or even if it would have made a difference. Why would any GM,let alone an abstract failure, interfere with his HoF HC's staff? The sum of Saad vs Panarin shows Panarin as one of the games best players every year since the trade and Saad as a complimentary piece.......Panarin was worth much more and has proved that unequivocally!! Muphy is now a concussed/often injured in other ways shell of a player who was average at best with little offense but DUMBASS re-signed him for an untradable 4.4MX4 anyway! A GM who wanted to win. A GM who was not afraid to ruffle feathers. A GM who realized the defensive schemes were not working and a GM that realized that Q's loyalty to Kitchen was strong so he had to be the bad guy. Hindsight is 20/20 so yes he should have got more for Panarin. Panarin would have still ended up elsewhere and we have no way of knowing if we would have gotten more or less. |
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Post by hsbob on May 26, 2022 17:18:41 GMT -6
Why would any GM,let alone an abstract failure, interfere with his HoF HC's staff? The sum of Saad vs Panarin shows Panarin as one of the games best players every year since the trade and Saad as a complimentary piece.......Panarin was worth much more and has proved that unequivocally!! Muphy is now a concussed/often injured in other ways shell of a player who was average at best with little offense but DUMBASS re-signed him for an untradable 4.4MX4 anyway! A GM who wanted to win. A GM who was not afraid to ruffle feathers. A GM who realized the defensive schemes were not working and a GM that realized that Q's loyalty to Kitchen was strong so he had to be the bad guy. Hindsight is 20/20 so yes he should have got more for Panarin. Panarin would have still ended up elsewhere and we have no way of knowing if we would have gotten more or less. And a GM who left his team in God Awful shape..........catastrophic shape to be more accurate. DUMBASS wouldn't know a defensive scheme if it kicked him in the ballsack! Hindsight was unnecessary because Panarin put up 30+ in both of his first two seasons here,he obviously wasn't going to regress. |
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Post by LordKOTL on May 27, 2022 8:22:33 GMT -6
Why would any GM,let alone an abstract failure, interfere with his HoF HC's staff? The sum of Saad vs Panarin shows Panarin as one of the games best players every year since the trade and Saad as a complimentary piece.......Panarin was worth much more and has proved that unequivocally!! Muphy is now a concussed/often injured in other ways shell of a player who was average at best with little offense but DUMBASS re-signed him for an untradable 4.4MX4 anyway! A GM who wanted to win. A GM who was not afraid to ruffle feathers. A GM who realized the defensive schemes were not working and a GM that realized that Q's loyalty to Kitchen was strong so he had to be the bad guy. Hindsight is 20/20 so yes he should have got more for Panarin. Panarin would have still ended up elsewhere and we have no way of knowing if we would have gotten more or less. In my opinion both Q and Stan needed to go. Q got stale in the locker room. Stan failed to properly bring in the right pieces to retool, rebuild, and overpaid for what meager assets he did bring in. Both should have been gone the summer of 2018 at the latest. |
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Post by hsbob on May 27, 2022 8:49:17 GMT -6
A GM who wanted to win. A GM who was not afraid to ruffle feathers. A GM who realized the defensive schemes were not working and a GM that realized that Q's loyalty to Kitchen was strong so he had to be the bad guy. Hindsight is 20/20 so yes he should have got more for Panarin. Panarin would have still ended up elsewhere and we have no way of knowing if we would have gotten more or less. In my opinion both Q and Stan needed to go. Q got stale in the locker room. Stan failed to properly bring in the right pieces to retool, rebuild, and overpaid for what meager assets he did bring in. Both should have been gone the summer of 2018 at the latest. Even good HC's get stale and every one of em's been fired.....your point is fair. But the summer of '18' saw a locker room that went without Hossa,Hammer,Panarin,Sharp,Shaw and Keith and Seabs millage was QUICKLY catching up with both......throw in losing Crawford and going w/o a NHL calabre GT and I might not put that season on the HC because NONE of those players were replaced. D-Cat did arrive and Q did have him playing a big role right away but that was about it. Cleaning house that summer and bringing in REAL hockey people would have been okay with me. |
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Post by steamer on May 27, 2022 8:53:17 GMT -6
Yeah there was a huge downtick in talent at that point - more than necessary. Hossa was no one’s fault but a good GM would see the writing on the wall a couple of years earlier and not have to throw everything overboard to keep afloat so to speak.
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puckjim
New Member
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Post by puckjim on Jun 2, 2022 15:18:13 GMT -6
One of the worst trades in Chicago Sports history
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 8, 2022 20:21:03 GMT -6
54 posts...for the most part unrelated to panarin...have been moved from this thread to a new one entitled "former general managers discussion thread".
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