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Post by galaxytrash on Mar 25, 2024 9:53:40 GMT -6
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Post by nighbor on Mar 25, 2024 15:37:50 GMT -6
I do not disagree totally but I think the schedule is "where are they? after 2 more years given the way the "current" core's contracts expire after 2025-2026 (https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/blackhawks). I cannot imagine Danny not being ready for the full rebuild to get altered until we take 2 more trips around the sun. Perhaps, but the old core went through 3 coaches from Keith's and Seabrook's debut to cup win, and of course 2 GM's (3, if you count Smith drafting key core members). Smith drafted quite a few valuable pieces of the puzzle that started the dynasty. He drafted Matt Ellison who Tallon traded for Patrick Sharp which was a great trade by Tallon. Smith drafted Byfuglien who played a vital role in winning the 2010 cup by taking away the eyes of the Vancouver goalie and scored some very valuable goals. Also in the finals he neutralized the human wrecking ball Pronger making it safer for the rest of the team. I would definitely say that Crawford, Keith and Seabrook were key members of the core. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Mar 25, 2024 20:03:33 GMT -6
i think i've said it here before but maybe try bag skating the wives/girlfriends?
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Post by 2old4this on Mar 25, 2024 22:20:19 GMT -6
Perhaps, but the old core went through 3 coaches from Keith's and Seabrook's debut to cup win, and of course 2 GM's (3, if you count Smith drafting key core members). Smith drafted quite a few valuable pieces of the puzzle that started the dynasty. He drafted Matt Ellison who Tallon traded for Patrick Sharp which was a great trade by Tallon. Smith drafted Byfuglien who played a vital role in winning the 2010 cup by taking away the eyes of the Vancouver goalie and scored some very valuable goals. Also in the finals he neutralized the human wrecking ball Pronger making it safer for the rest of the team. I would definitely say that Crawford, Keith and Seabrook were key members of the core. Smith gets no credit for drafting Matt Ellison. Tallon gets all the credit for trading for Sharp. As for Byfuglien, he gets credit for a lucky pick. Which paid off handsomely. Big Buff is one of my all time faves. |
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Post by nighbor on Mar 26, 2024 2:58:06 GMT -6
Smith drafted quite a few valuable pieces of the puzzle that started the dynasty. He drafted Matt Ellison who Tallon traded for Patrick Sharp which was a great trade by Tallon. Smith drafted Byfuglien who played a vital role in winning the 2010 cup by taking away the eyes of the Vancouver goalie and scored some very valuable goals. Also in the finals he neutralized the human wrecking ball Pronger making it safer for the rest of the team. I would definitely say that Crawford, Keith and Seabrook were key members of the core. Smith gets no credit for drafting Matt Ellison. Tallon gets all the credit for trading for Sharp. As for Byfuglien, he gets credit for a lucky pick. Which paid off handsomely. Big Buff is one of my all time faves. Smith gets full credit for drafting Ellison and Tallon turned this team asset into Sharp. Luck plays a role in everything we do. I do not consider Byfuglien a lucky pick because he had serious skills. Yes we were lucky Big Buff was still there when Smith was ready to make his move the same way Tallon was lucky that Hjalmarsson was still there at 105. IMHO teams were turned off of Buff because of his weight. Byfuglien should have been drafted earlier as he had everything. Size, strength, with a hard shot, and he was a heavy hitter, with good hands and a good skater. I remember seeing a youtube of him playing in the AHL. He was in the o zone and he skated through three or four payers and scored. |
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Post by BigT on Mar 26, 2024 6:24:02 GMT -6
I posted somewhere before a good article on Smith/Tallon. The article had interviews and even Smith had admitted that Tallon did most of the scouting for the Hawks. There was an except in there with Brian Burke. It was Burke someone else and Tallon all in Sweden to watch the twins play. It was that crazy trade Burke did to get the Sedins. I believe the Hawks got McCabe. Anyways, Tallon was scouting with other GMs. The rumour was that Tallon was pretty much running the show. Then Smith decided to use his power and draft all Russians. Then soon after Tallon took over. I’m not saying Smith didn’t do anything. But Tallon had a much bigger hand in the drafting process then most think. Tallon specifically mentions Big Buff as his guy and Smith never wanted him. I’ll try and conjure up what I can. I think it’s just time to put all that stuff to bed. We need a thread just for it. So that we can always end the back and forth with actual facts. Actually, there’s a “Hey Burkie”’cartoon segment with Sportsnet that describes the GMs and Tallon going to Sweden to scout. This is very entertaining, trust me!!! youtu.be/haKNlLw0m5Q?si=XrWmHnMmMqex4Mu3Actually, this is it. It’s Yawney, Bob Murray and Tallon go with Burke. youtu.be/haKNlLw0m5Q?si=Se6Osv0YFJIJewzX |
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Post by Tater on Mar 26, 2024 10:37:17 GMT -6
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Post by galaxytrash on Mar 26, 2024 10:54:53 GMT -6
good news i hope.
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Post by galaxytrash on Mar 27, 2024 13:22:21 GMT -6
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Post by nighbor on Mar 27, 2024 15:16:22 GMT -6
I posted somewhere before a good article on Smith/Tallon. The article had interviews and even Smith had admitted that Tallon did most of the scouting for the Hawks. There was an except in there with Brian Burke. It was Burke someone else and Tallon all in Sweden to watch the twins play. It was that crazy trade Burke did to get the Sedins. I believe the Hawks got McCabe. Anyways, Tallon was scouting with other GMs. The rumour was that Tallon was pretty much running the show. Then Smith decided to use his power and draft all Russians. Then soon after Tallon took over. I’m not saying Smith didn’t do anything. But Tallon had a much bigger hand in the drafting process then most think. Tallon specifically mentions Big Buff as his guy and Smith never wanted him. I’ll try and conjure up what I can. I think it’s just time to put all that stuff to bed. We need a thread just for it. So that we can always end the back and forth with actual facts. Actually, there’s a “Hey Burkie”’cartoon segment with Sportsnet that describes the GMs and Tallon going to Sweden to scout. This is very entertaining, trust me!!! youtu.be/haKNlLw0m5Q?si=XrWmHnMmMqex4Mu3Actually, this is it. It’s Yawney, Bob Murray and Tallon go with Burke. youtu.be/haKNlLw0m5Q?si=Se6Osv0YFJIJewzXEntertaining cartoon, close but no cigar, exploding or otherwise. It is a story about 1999 and Smith was GM 2000 - 2003. Every team has an extensive scouting department so I suspect Smith said that Tallon did more scouting than he did. It would not surprise me if that was part of the responsibilites of an AGM who after all is there to assist. Concerning rumors, if a person doesn't start one he can never really know who did. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Mar 28, 2024 10:30:15 GMT -6
Perhaps, but the old core went through 3 coaches from Keith's and Seabrook's debut to cup win, and of course 2 GM's (3, if you count Smith drafting key core members). Smith drafted quite a few valuable pieces of the puzzle that started the dynasty. He drafted Matt Ellison who Tallon traded for Patrick Sharp which was a great trade by Tallon. Smith drafted Byfuglien who played a vital role in winning the 2010 cup by taking away the eyes of the Vancouver goalie and scored some very valuable goals. Also in the finals he neutralized the human wrecking ball Pronger making it safer for the rest of the team. I would definitely say that Crawford, Keith and Seabrook were key members of the core. I probably wasn't clear on my point: Smith drafted key personnel to the old core, but when they got their 1st taste of NHL ice he wasn't the GM. Ergo: If you are counting the GM's who has something to do with the cup wins, it's 3. If you are only counting those GMs that were in that position when core members were on NHL ice, that's 2. By the time that the 'hawks are ready to compete for a cup, even if it's within a few years time, we may have a different coach and a GM. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Apr 5, 2024 17:30:41 GMT -6
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Post by BigT on Apr 5, 2024 21:00:46 GMT -6
The problem with Bedard on center, he wins 30%. So the Hawks barely start with the puck. With Dicky, Bedard starts with the puck 53% of the time. It’s a no brainer!!!
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Post by Tater on Apr 6, 2024 2:32:45 GMT -6
I thought this was a pretty good read about Dickinson and the faceoff game. Any chance you could cut/paste that? It is blocked for me. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Apr 6, 2024 14:12:18 GMT -6
I thought this was a pretty good read about Dickinson and the faceoff game. Any chance you could cut/paste that? It is blocked for me. tried just now and it won't open for me either...other than the first couple of paragraphs. |
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Post by nighbor on Apr 6, 2024 16:43:19 GMT -6
Every person here has their own opinion based on what they read or heard. I suggest you read an article written December 29th, 2022 by Tab Bamford entitled "What Can We Learn from the Blackhawks Last Two Decades of GM's". Personally I felt he attempted to give a truly balanced unbiased account of who did what.
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Post by BigT on Apr 6, 2024 21:04:45 GMT -6
Every person here has their own opinion based on what they read or heard. I suggest you read an article written December 29th, 2022 by Tab Bamford entitled "What Can We Learn from the Blackhawks Last Two Decades of GM's". Personally I felt he attempted to give a truly balanced unbiased account of who did what. In all fairness. What’s there to prove? These arguments are absolutely moot now. We’ve been over them 100,000 times. What’s your thoughts on what’s happening now? I do agree history is the best teacher. But at some point, you have to actually learn from it. And giving biased opinions on both sides ain’t proving nothing. I just think the Hawks are in a totally different position now. I honestly believe 90%+ are willing to give KD a chance and for quite some time to see if his plan works. I really think it’s time to move forward!!! |
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Post by nighbor on Apr 7, 2024 13:48:50 GMT -6
Every person here has their own opinion based on what they read or heard. I suggest you read an article written December 29th, 2022 by Tab Bamford entitled "What Can We Learn from the Blackhawks Last Two Decades of GM's". Personally I felt he attempted to give a truly balanced unbiased account of who did what. In all fairness. What’s there to prove? These arguments are absolutely moot now. We’ve been over them 100,000 times. What’s your thoughts on what’s happening now? I do agree history is the best teacher. But at some point, you have to actually learn from it. And giving biased opinions on both sides ain’t proving nothing. I just think the Hawks are in a totally different position now. I honestly believe 90%+ are willing to give KD a chance and for quite some time to see if his plan works. I really think it’s time to move forward!!! I consider the article I mentioned to be unbiased and well worth the read. It mentions a revolving door of GM's where none were given the time to see things through and it points out both good and bad during their tenure. The GM's were replaced for a short period by Bob Pulford who was eventually replaced after 6 to 24 months. Pulford was actually GM four times. I am 100% behind KD and he is worthy of a new contract. This season was unfortunate because he added pieces that but for injuries and an unforseen circumstance derailed the season. His draft picks are progressing well especially Rinzel who cost the team nothing. |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Apr 7, 2024 21:43:59 GMT -6
In all fairness. What’s there to prove? These arguments are absolutely moot now. We’ve been over them 100,000 times. What’s your thoughts on what’s happening now? I do agree history is the best teacher. But at some point, you have to actually learn from it. And giving biased opinions on both sides ain’t proving nothing. I just think the Hawks are in a totally different position now. I honestly believe 90%+ are willing to give KD a chance and for quite some time to see if his plan works. I really think it’s time to move forward!!! I consider the article I mentioned to be unbiased and well worth the read. It mentions a revolving door of GM's where none were given the time to see things through and it points out both good and bad during their tenure. The GM's were replaced for a short period by Bob Pulford who was eventually replaced after 6 to 24 months. Pulford was actually GM four times. I am 100% behind KD and he is worthy of a new contract. This season was unfortunate because he added pieces that but for injuries and an unforseen circumstance derailed the season. His draft picks are progressing well especially Rinzel who cost the team nothing. As i watch 88 play hockey I cant get 100% behind a guy who did not want him. I think you are dreaming if you think a healthy Hall and AA would make this a much better team. Gotta say right on with you all picks seem to be progressing nicely so far. As I have said before KD gonna be here a long time 2 more years as GM then on to President of hockey ops. |
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Post by nighbor on Apr 8, 2024 1:40:06 GMT -6
I consider the article I mentioned to be unbiased and well worth the read. It mentions a revolving door of GM's where none were given the time to see things through and it points out both good and bad during their tenure. The GM's were replaced for a short period by Bob Pulford who was eventually replaced after 6 to 24 months. Pulford was actually GM four times. I am 100% behind KD and he is worthy of a new contract. This season was unfortunate because he added pieces that but for injuries and an unforseen circumstance derailed the season. His draft picks are progressing well especially Rinzel who cost the team nothing. As i watch 88 play hockey I cant get 100% behind a guy who did not want him. I think you are dreaming if you think a healthy Hall and AA would make this a much better team. Gotta say right on with you all picks seem to be progressing nicely so far. As I have said before KD gonna be here a long time 2 more years as GM then on to President of hockey ops. KD was hired to win cups not to keep the band together. Kane is putting up good numbers in Detroit aided by their firepower. There is no way he would have 43 points in Chicago on one of the bottom feeders that is powered by candlelight. I am wide awake and I didn't declare them cup contenders. I also alluded to Perry and failed to mention Danato and a healthy Murphy which would have had us pick between 5 and 10. Baby steps. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Apr 8, 2024 9:47:30 GMT -6
The problem with Bedard on center, he wins 30%. So the Hawks barely start with the puck. With Dicky, Bedard starts with the puck 53% of the time. It’s a no brainer!!! To be fair, Bedard is at 39%, which is better than Cooley and of course, Kirby Dach He needs to work on draws, but he's right at the cusp. It's possible for him to get better. I'd think he takes all but the important draws until he proves he's Dach-bad, or gets better. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 8, 2024 10:02:04 GMT -6
I consider the article I mentioned to be unbiased and well worth the read. It mentions a revolving door of GM's where none were given the time to see things through and it points out both good and bad during their tenure. The GM's were replaced for a short period by Bob Pulford who was eventually replaced after 6 to 24 months. Pulford was actually GM four times. I am 100% behind KD and he is worthy of a new contract. This season was unfortunate because he added pieces that but for injuries and an unforseen circumstance derailed the season. His draft picks are progressing well especially Rinzel who cost the team nothing. As i watch 88 play hockey I cant get 100% behind a guy who did not want him. I think you are dreaming if you think a healthy Hall and AA would make this a much better team. Gotta say right on with you all picks seem to be progressing nicely so far. As I have said before KD gonna be here a long time 2 more years as GM then on to President of hockey ops. Hall,AA and Perry are all 'just okay',as a wiseman would have once put it,and their absences allowed forwards Kurashev,Dickinson,Donato and Slaggert to see more ice time. Murph's missing a bunch of games also allowed three young D-men to see more time too and he's 'just okay' himself. Jr's honeymoon will last at least three more years with full houses and league leading jersey sales and it'll take a few more to figure-out where things are headed. They ought to be headed in the right direction by then. |
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Post by Granada on Apr 8, 2024 10:53:17 GMT -6
As i watch 88 play hockey I cant get 100% behind a guy who did not want him. I think you are dreaming if you think a healthy Hall and AA would make this a much better team. Gotta say right on with you all picks seem to be progressing nicely so far. As I have said before KD gonna be here a long time 2 more years as GM then on to President of hockey ops. KD was hired to win cups not to keep the band together. Kane is putting up good numbers in Detroit aided by their firepower. There is no way he would have 43 points in Chicago on one of the bottom feeders that is powered by candlelight. I am wide awake and I didn't declare them cup contenders. I also alluded to Perry and failed to mention Danato and a healthy Murphy which would have had us pick between 5 and 10. Baby steps. Yeah, I said this before and I'll say it again: nobody could have predicted exactly how he would respond after the hip surgery. Detroit took a chance because they essentially had extremely little to lose; it worked out for them (at least, so far; who knows if they'll be able to retain him). The goal this year, was to bring in cost/term-controlled vets who could help Bedard and give him some pieces to play with in the top six; and bring in some pieces that could protect the prospects in a rebuilding year. Again, no one could have predicted that Hall would go down and Perry would get kicked off the team. Bedard did well anyway. The team overall did worse, which in my view was not Davidson's plan, but then again, it would have been considered a miracle if they made the playoffs this year, so their trajectory wasn't that much different. But yeah, Davidson wasn't hired to keep the band together. He made the tough decisions that Bowman never had the balls to make and which needed to be done. I loved the last core but it was time to move on. |
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Post by Granada on Apr 8, 2024 11:17:22 GMT -6
I consider the article I mentioned to be unbiased and well worth the read. It mentions a revolving door of GM's where none were given the time to see things through and it points out both good and bad during their tenure. The GM's were replaced for a short period by Bob Pulford who was eventually replaced after 6 to 24 months. Pulford was actually GM four times. I am 100% behind KD and he is worthy of a new contract. This season was unfortunate because he added pieces that but for injuries and an unforseen circumstance derailed the season. His draft picks are progressing well especially Rinzel who cost the team nothing. As i watch 88 play hockey I cant get 100% behind a guy who did not want him. I think you are dreaming if you think a healthy Hall and AA would make this a much better team. Gotta say right on with you all picks seem to be progressing nicely so far. As I have said before KD gonna be here a long time 2 more years as GM then on to President of hockey ops. Hey BB, I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I'd say this: I wouldn't say they would make the Hawks "a much better team," but an "improved" team? I'd say yes. For a team that was already quite shallow, losing these guys did make a difference in my view. Throw in all the other injuries too, and I do think it would have made a difference. How big a difference is anyone's guess -- they certainly wouldn't have made the playoffs, but 8-12 more wins, probably. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Apr 8, 2024 13:34:48 GMT -6
As i watch 88 play hockey I cant get 100% behind a guy who did not want him. I think you are dreaming if you think a healthy Hall and AA would make this a much better team. Gotta say right on with you all picks seem to be progressing nicely so far. As I have said before KD gonna be here a long time 2 more years as GM then on to President of hockey ops. Hey BB, I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I'd say this: I wouldn't say they would make the Hawks "a much better team," but an "improved" team? I'd say yes. For a team that was already quite shallow, losing these guys did make a difference in my view. Throw in all the other injuries too, and I do think it would have made a difference. How big a difference is anyone's guess -- they certainly wouldn't have made the playoffs, but 8-12 more wins, probably. I was OK with KD not making rash moves when Hall, Perry and injuries to AA and Murphy. Would have been easy to make foolish trades of picks and assets for a couple stand ins. We had plenty of youngins to fill the voids and get much needed NHL experience. |
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Post by Granada on Apr 8, 2024 13:42:51 GMT -6
Hey BB, I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I'd say this: I wouldn't say they would make the Hawks "a much better team," but an "improved" team? I'd say yes. For a team that was already quite shallow, losing these guys did make a difference in my view. Throw in all the other injuries too, and I do think it would have made a difference. How big a difference is anyone's guess -- they certainly wouldn't have made the playoffs, but 8-12 more wins, probably. I was OK with KD not making rash moves when Hall, Perry and injuries to AA and Murphy. Would have been easy to make foolish trades of picks and assets for a couple stand ins. We had plenty of youngins to fill the voids and get much needed NHL experience. Same. It was a throw-away year anyway, so it was smart to retain those assets. Plus it gave guys like Kaiser and Blackwell, etc. time to shine, like you said. I didn't include Vlasic because I feel like he was coming up no matter if Murphy got hurt or not, but Kaiser, he probably would have seen far less time. |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Apr 8, 2024 14:03:58 GMT -6
As i watch 88 play hockey I cant get 100% behind a guy who did not want him. I think you are dreaming if you think a healthy Hall and AA would make this a much better team. Gotta say right on with you all picks seem to be progressing nicely so far. As I have said before KD gonna be here a long time 2 more years as GM then on to President of hockey ops. Hey BB, I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I'd say this: I wouldn't say they would make the Hawks "a much better team," but an "improved" team? I'd say yes. For a team that was already quite shallow, losing these guys did make a difference in my view. Throw in all the other injuries too, and I do think it would have made a difference. How big a difference is anyone's guess -- they certainly wouldn't have made the playoffs, but 8-12 more wins, probably. I would say maybe 3 wins at tops. i really believe they might have been worse with hall all year and definingly would have stunted Kurs growth but again KD thought so little of 23 he took him to arbitration for a 100 grand. AA is Stalberg and I dont believe he wins you anymore games. Now maybe they are not shut out 13 times but as far as win and losses its not much of an improvement with them on the ice. As far as 88 he is one player that would be more of a solo act not a band. I am not a fan of blind faith I understand KD was brought in to win a cup kinda sure thats the plan for most GMs. I have not stated to get rid of him but I have heard about this unbelievable analytical department time to take that out for a spin. |
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Post by Granada on Apr 8, 2024 14:24:43 GMT -6
Hey BB, I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I'd say this: I wouldn't say they would make the Hawks "a much better team," but an "improved" team? I'd say yes. For a team that was already quite shallow, losing these guys did make a difference in my view. Throw in all the other injuries too, and I do think it would have made a difference. How big a difference is anyone's guess -- they certainly wouldn't have made the playoffs, but 8-12 more wins, probably. I would say maybe 3 wins at tops. i really believe they might have been worse with hall all year and definingly would have stunted Kurs growth but again KD thought so little of 23 he took him to arbitration for a 100 grand. AA is Stalberg and I dont believe he wins you anymore games. Now maybe they are not shut out 13 times but as far as win and losses its not much of an improvement with them on the ice. As far as 88 he is one player that would be more of a solo act not a band. I am not a fan of blind faith I understand KD was brought in to win a cup kinda sure thats the plan for most GMs. I have not stated to get rid of him but I have heard about this unbelievable analytical department time to take that out for a spin. Perry and Murphy would factor into it too, not to mention all the other big names (Foligno, Jones, Bedard) that were injured early in the year for prolonged absences. In the big picture, all of those injuries added up and then some on an already shallow team, including AA's and Hall's. |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Apr 8, 2024 14:38:06 GMT -6
I would say maybe 3 wins at tops. i really believe they might have been worse with hall all year and definingly would have stunted Kurs growth but again KD thought so little of 23 he took him to arbitration for a 100 grand. AA is Stalberg and I dont believe he wins you anymore games. Now maybe they are not shut out 13 times but as far as win and losses its not much of an improvement with them on the ice. As far as 88 he is one player that would be more of a solo act not a band. I am not a fan of blind faith I understand KD was brought in to win a cup kinda sure thats the plan for most GMs. I have not stated to get rid of him but I have heard about this unbelievable analytical department time to take that out for a spin. Perry and Murphy would factor into it too, not to mention all the other big names (Foligno, Jones, Bedard) that were injured early in the year for prolonged absences. In the big picture, all of those injuries added up and then some on an already shallow team, including AA's and Hall's. Yeah ill give you 8 wins if no one gets hurt but thats a tall ask in hockey! As far as Perry they would have lost more. |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Apr 8, 2024 17:40:00 GMT -6
Perry and Murphy would factor into it too, not to mention all the other big names (Foligno, Jones, Bedard) that were injured early in the year for prolonged absences. In the big picture, all of those injuries added up and then some on an already shallow team, including AA's and Hall's. Yeah ill give you 8 wins if no one gets hurt but thats a tall ask in hockey! As far as Perry they would have lost more. I'll throw my 2 cents into the fray - I think 8 more wins is probably a little high. They have 51 points right now with 5 games to play - adding another 8 wins gets them to 67 points whick I think is a little higher than what this roster could be reasonably expected to produce, even when healthy. However - I think a more impactful result of missing those players - more so than points in the standings - was the impact we didn't get that they would have provided in the development of the young players. Having a healthy Hall lining up on Bedard's LW would have given him a better linemate than the parade of other guys he was forced to play with. Having Perry all season would have provided a legit net front presence on the PP that would improved PP#1 and consequently helped the players on PP#1. Having Murphy all season would have been better for Korchinski then having to play with Megna - I'm not a fan of Murphy and will be happy to see him go at some point in hopefully the near future - But Megna? Seriously? And then there's AA missing a big chunk of the season and while I think Reichel's struggles are more between Reichel's ears than the linemates he played with - he has shown some chemistry and more confidence when he plays with AA and whether that impact is large or small - not having AA is still a negative impact for Reichel. There are probably other examples too that I'm not thinking of right now. Would Soderblom have had a better year with a more competent team in front of him? Yeah maybe but that might be stretching the point a bit. |
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