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Post by steamer on May 31, 2023 16:59:01 GMT -6
The importance of winning faceoffs has been mentioned many times but it’s interesting to note that the 17 top guys at the dot in the playoffs are sitting at home and William Karlsson is first among who’s left at #18. Panthers have no one in the top 25. So apparently other skills have weighed more heavily. Bob for instance . . .
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Post by LordKOTL on May 31, 2023 17:14:27 GMT -6
I think the rule was something like 7fwds, 2D, and 1 G, or 4 or 5 skaters total and 1G. NMC's HAD to be protected, and there were limits on how much pro experience a player should have, ergo some rookie players were automatically protected.I think the latter was to protect a existing team's prospect pool. I think that Seattle and Vegas had to have a certain amount of cap hit drafted, so they couldn't just go for a ton of cheap players and completely tank out. For certain teams, it was, "who do we keep and who can we part with?". I believe in the Vegas draft teams were making trades with them specifically to prevent them from picking a specific unprotected player and instead they picked another one. I may be wrong, but I think that's what sent MAF their way. Other teams could protect their most important players, and only expose mid-tier-or-lower. I think in past expansion, like what phil was alluding to, is that teams were given THE bottom of the barrel, and thus it stopped them from being competitive for a long while--kinda like how we were circa 2004. I personally believe that was a mistake by the league because it took so long for those teams to get off the ground that it hurt the nascent fanbase development. I think the goal was that Vegas and Seattle would get the chance to be a 10-20 team with expansion, which would make them "competitive enough" that as the new toy syndrome wears down, fans can still see a team that could be good enough for at least a playoff push. To your point, I think that most of the players were indeed perceived as "mid-tier", I think many of them probably knew their clubs saw them as superfluous, and that gave them some incentive on Vegas/Seattle. I also think some players who were logjammed behind real stars probably saw it as a way to get out from a superstar's shadow. Couple that with good coaching and a gameplan by the management and you have 2 expansion clubs who quickly became competitive. I think there's a lot those clubs did right, and I think that it shouldn't be held against them; if anything, the other clubs not doing well should be held against those not-doing-well clubs. I kinda understand the logic behind, "well, Florida, Columbus, etc. had shitty rules in their expansions and got the short end of the stick, so it was unfair to Vegas/Seattle." But I don't agree; I think it's reversed. I think the league shot themselves in the foot by having those shitty rules for previous expansions and fixed it. Plus, I've never been one to accept the "I suffered, so my kids should suffer" mentality. I'm more like, "the youth should not face the same injustices I faced." But again, just my opinion:). I think Vegas and Seattle, as long as they keep their pace, will have stronger markets than teams like Columbus because they were able to reel in strong fanbase because they were at least competitive. Further, I stand behind the Chicago template of 8 years from first core pic to strong cup contender (or cup win), for any team who is well-run. Prior to Vegas...Columbus came in at 2000. It's 23 years later. If they were well-run, they should have been able to put together a team that would have gone beyond the 1st round in the intervening time, as an example. My $0.02. NMC's and ELC's were protected. I knew NMC's were, but I thought ELC's weren't necessarily, I thought it had to do with the amount of NHL games played over a span of a year or two. I could be wrong, though.
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Post by LordKOTL on May 31, 2023 17:23:34 GMT -6
The importance of winning faceoffs has been mentioned many times but it’s interesting to note that the 17 top guys at the dot in the playoffs are sitting at home and William Karlsson is first among who’s left at #18. Panthers have no one in the top 25. So apparently other skills have weighed more heavily. Bob for instance . . . Things can be mitigated. It's possible to win a cup if you don't have the strongest goalie, strongest offense, strongest D, most physicality, etc. You just need some other aspect of the game to cover for it. To wit, the 2013 'hawks had a very mediocre PP. They were also last in hits. They were tops in the PK, takeaways, and GA/GP. In the end, a mediocre PP and last in hits didn't matter. So if a team isn't good at faceoffs, but they are good at forcing turnovers, bad faceoffs can be mitigated. Conversely if a team isn't good at forcing turnovers, winning draws can mitigate that. IMHO the key is having the right balance.
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Post by phill9 on May 31, 2023 18:57:12 GMT -6
Might want to move all the expansion posts to its own thread?
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Post by Nikos on May 31, 2023 19:30:08 GMT -6
I can't completely agree with you. I don't know if any expansion team before Vegas (and now Seattle) were given the same expansion draft options these 2 teams were. Expansion teams used to get the bottom of the bottom of existing teams players, guys who likely without expansion would have never played in the NHL. What did the Panthers have to choose from when they were awarded a team? It took them years to build a team. So although you may be ok with how management for Vegas and Seattle put together teams, they were given FAR better players to choose from then past expansion drafts. For that reason alone,I can never get behind either Vegas or Seattle until they suffer into a lottery team for several years. They didn't earn what other expansion teams from the past did, like Washington, Florida, and Tampa did. Side note: if Arizona has to relocate, the best thing the league could do to make them competitive is to disband the team, replace them with an expansion team, and allow that new team to pick and choose players from not only the "former" Arizona team, but get to pick players from all the other teams. It would make that team an instant playoff team, as it did Vegas and Seattle. As Nikos pointed out,the hard-cap era has left a better quality of player available/unprotected but with only one from each team being available,the RIGHT decisions still had to be made......and were. Both teams also had successful UFA signings and trades to their credit that greatly bolstered both rosters. Joining the league with no previous year's roster that's played together or any semblance of a farm system/prospect pool is still a lot to overcome IMO. A lot of teams ain't into sufferng,for one year,let alone several. Previous expansion teams have struggled but so have two original six teams in two of the biggest markets,60 combined cup-less years for the Habs and Rags. Vagas and Seattle both constructed well-balanced teams that can roll four lines and three D-pairs with additions that were available to all teams since their starts. The Kraken picked a good one in Ron Francis and he picked a good one in Hakstol and I have to wonder how Boston feels about letting Cassidy walk......HC's matter. Kraken just signed Francis to a 3-year extension and Hakstol will likely be next. The Kraken are in good shape heading into 3rd year of their inaugural franchise.
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Post by hsbob on Jun 1, 2023 10:13:32 GMT -6
As Nikos pointed out,the hard-cap era has left a better quality of player available/unprotected but with only one from each team being available,the RIGHT decisions still had to be made......and were. Both teams also had successful UFA signings and trades to their credit that greatly bolstered both rosters. Joining the league with no previous year's roster that's played together or any semblance of a farm system/prospect pool is still a lot to overcome IMO. A lot of teams ain't into sufferng,for one year,let alone several. Previous expansion teams have struggled but so have two original six teams in two of the biggest markets,60 combined cup-less years for the Habs and Rags. Vagas and Seattle both constructed well-balanced teams that can roll four lines and three D-pairs with additions that were available to all teams since their starts. The Kraken picked a good one in Ron Francis and he picked a good one in Hakstol and I have to wonder how Boston feels about letting Cassidy walk......HC's matter. Kraken just signed Francis to a 3-year extension and Hakstol will likely be next. The Kraken are in good shape heading into 3rd year of their inaugural franchisee. I've been complimentary of Francis and he's put together a hard working,well-balenced team BUT he has a lotta work left to do too. Does the team look for the big UFA addition this year or soon and is it the right signing? Or,do they continue to add the mid-tier FA's. Grubauer is their highest paid guy @5.9M and their only possible,problematic contract with four years left. They signed 28yro Burakovsky for 5.5MX5 last summer and it's hard to grade that signing since the player went on LTIR back on Feb 9th with 13/39 in 49gms at that point. I have to think he woulda helped Seattle in the PO's.
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Post by Nikos on Jun 1, 2023 13:49:27 GMT -6
Kraken just signed Francis to a 3-year extension and Hakstol will likely be next. The Kraken are in good shape heading into 3rd year of their inaugural franchisee. I've been complimentary of Francis and he's put together a hard working,well-balenced team BUT he has a lotta work left to do too. Does the team look for the big UFA addition this year or soon and is it the right signing? Or,do they continue to add the mid-tier FA's. Grubauer is their highest paid guy @5.9M and their only possible,problematic contract with four years left. They signed 28yro Burakovsky for 5.5MX5 last summer and it's hard to grade that signing since the player went on LTIR back on Feb 9th with 13/39 in 49gms at that point. I have to think he woulda helped Seattle in the PO's. Kraken will have about $20M in available cap space with 14 signed, with Burakovsky on IR and Drieger on buried penalty (not sure what that means). So, you your question is fair, will they try to sign a "big" UFA, my guess probably not as this is not a strong UFA class. When you look at the 14 signed for 2023-2024 season most of them are in the $3.5M to $5.5M range, with Beniers at $897k and soon to get a very nice bump, probably 5-8 years at $6M to $8M. They have all their picks for 2023 and several extra #2's this year and last year's 1st pick Wright looking to breakthrough in 2023-2024. Francis made a nice waiver claim in Tolvanen, former 1st round pick of Preds. Vince Dunn, RFA is going to get a nice raise, so some of that $20M cap space will go to him.
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Post by bigbarn27 on Jun 1, 2023 20:51:15 GMT -6
Kraken just signed Francis to a 3-year extension and Hakstol will likely be next. The Kraken are in good shape heading into 3rd year of their inaugural franchisee. I've been complimentary of Francis and he's put together a hard working,well-balenced team BUT he has a lotta work left to do too. Does the team look for the big UFA addition this year or soon and is it the right signing? Or,do they continue to add the mid-tier FA's. Grubauer is their highest paid guy @5.9M and their only possible,problematic contract with four years left. They signed 28yro Burakovsky for 5.5MX5 last summer and it's hard to grade that signing since the player went on LTIR back on Feb 9th with 13/39 in 49gms at that point. I have to think he woulda helped Seattle in the PO's. Big Francis fan from his playing days. Waited until he hoisted the cup before shattering my seat and leaving the stadium in 92. Built the Canes now doing a great job with Krak.
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Post by T-man2010 on Jun 2, 2023 15:26:22 GMT -6
I've gone into a coma waiting for these finals to start.
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Post by phill9 on Jun 2, 2023 17:24:22 GMT -6
I've gone into a coma waiting for these finals to start. I think they're going to televise the 2024 draft lottery before game 3
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Post by phill9 on Jun 2, 2023 18:47:46 GMT -6
Just reading a story from Matthew Tkachuk on the ESPN app. It's been so long since they last played, I didn't even realize how well Tkachuk was doing. This snippet directly from the article:
Tkachuk has scored 21 goals in 16 postseason games, including three overtime game-winning goals.
21 goals in 16 games is pretty impressive 😆
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 2, 2023 19:02:15 GMT -6
Just reading a story from Matthew Tkachuk on the ESPN app. It's been so long since they last played, I didn't even realize how well Tkachuk was doing. This snippet directly from the article: Tkachuk has scored 21 goals in 16 postseason games, including three overtime game-winning goals. 21 goals in 16 games is pretty impressive 😆 21 points in 16 games this playoff year, actually. still not too shabby. before this year's playoffs, he was 7g, 8a in 27 games with the flames so he's definitely picking up the pace this post season.
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Post by phill9 on Jun 2, 2023 19:16:22 GMT -6
Just reading a story from Matthew Tkachuk on the ESPN app. It's been so long since they last played, I didn't even realize how well Tkachuk was doing. This snippet directly from the article: Tkachuk has scored 21 goals in 16 postseason games, including three overtime game-winning goals. 21 goals in 16 games is pretty impressive 😆 21 points in 16 games this playoff year, actually. still not too shabby. before this year's playoffs, he was 7g, 8a in 27 games with the flames so he's definitely picking up the pace this post season. I knew it was supposed to say points....I just enjoy catching mistakes like these. Years ago when Sammy Sosa was hitting all his homeruns, the Chicago Tribune had a series preview vs the Dodgers in which they wrote Sammy Sosa was 4 for 27 with 5 home runs in his career against Ismael Valdes.
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 2, 2023 19:43:59 GMT -6
21 points in 16 games this playoff year, actually. still not too shabby. before this year's playoffs, he was 7g, 8a in 27 games with the flames so he's definitely picking up the pace this post season. I knew it was supposed to say points.... sorry...that went right over my head. : ) new rule...i won't post until i've had at least 2 coffees.
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Post by phill9 on Jun 3, 2023 8:08:38 GMT -6
I think they're threatening to play hockey tonight
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Post by BigT on Jun 3, 2023 14:36:19 GMT -6
Let’s go Panthers. It’d be good for them in Souf Florida to get a “ship” down there. They’ve paid their dues. I’ll be rooting for Florida!!!
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Post by phill9 on Jun 3, 2023 17:00:01 GMT -6
So why did I pick the Panthers in 6? The legend of Q! He's still got a handprint on this team even though he's been gone over a season.
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Post by phill9 on Jun 3, 2023 18:43:27 GMT -6
All the crap going on in front of the Vegas net and only a Panther penalty?
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Post by phill9 on Jun 3, 2023 18:45:19 GMT -6
Take that Hill! Stall with a shorty
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Post by vadarx on Jun 3, 2023 18:51:00 GMT -6
didn't take long for me to start rooting a little for Florida in this one. feels a little dirty that Vegas would win a Cup before Florida does.
Vegas does have a pretty solid fan base, though. way better than the cats do. I wonder how long it lasts if/when they fall on hard times. I'd bet a good while. them being the first pro team in town really drew in the locals.
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Post by phill9 on Jun 3, 2023 18:57:26 GMT -6
didn't take long for me to start rooting a little for Florida in this one. feels a little dirty that Vegas would win a Cup before Florida does. Vegas does have a pretty solid fan base, though. way better than the cats do. I wonder how long it lasts if/when they fall on hard times. I'd bet a good while. them being the first pro team in town really drew in the locals. I knew you'd see the light 😆
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Post by phill9 on Jun 3, 2023 19:08:02 GMT -6
Pretty even 1st period. And starting out just like the conference finals with teams exchanging goals. Bob looks like the layoff hasn't affected him.
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Post by phill9 on Jun 3, 2023 19:13:17 GMT -6
May want to move the intermission crew outside the rink next game. Hard to hear what they're saying with the background noise
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 3, 2023 19:20:05 GMT -6
if vegas wears those stupid shiny gold helmets this series i'm going to have to cheer for florida.
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Post by vadarx on Jun 3, 2023 19:24:27 GMT -6
didn't take long for me to start rooting a little for Florida in this one. feels a little dirty that Vegas would win a Cup before Florida does. Vegas does have a pretty solid fan base, though. way better than the cats do. I wonder how long it lasts if/when they fall on hard times. I'd bet a good while. them being the first pro team in town really drew in the locals. I knew you'd see the light 😆 I said a little. 😜 I still don't care that much. just a tinge of "maybe Florida deserves it" and, as we all know, deserves got nothing to do with it.
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Post by vadarx on Jun 3, 2023 19:25:21 GMT -6
if vegas wears those stupid shiny gold helmets this series i'm going to have to cheer for florida. yeah, I get the "golden knights" theme, but I liked their original sweaters/helmet better than the current ones.
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Post by phill9 on Jun 3, 2023 19:34:38 GMT -6
if vegas wears those stupid shiny gold helmets this series i'm going to have to cheer for florida. If they do they should paint their faces gold so they can look like those street performers
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Post by phill9 on Jun 3, 2023 20:09:06 GMT -6
Status quo.....2 periods, 1 goal leads turning into tie game. Panthers lead in goal posts 3 to 1. Should we have expected anything less?
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Post by phill9 on Jun 3, 2023 20:54:29 GMT -6
Panthers making too many mistakes. Screened Bob on 2 of the goals, and bad clearing attempts giving Vegas high quality chances.
10 days off may be showing up in this game
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Post by vadarx on Jun 3, 2023 20:55:11 GMT -6
controversy!
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