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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 18:02:29 GMT -6
What a week baseball is having, and not in a good way. First the Houston Astros have been found to have cheated by stealing signs in their world championship season, and hit with a $5 million dollar fine, the loss of 1st and 2nd round picks for next 2 seasons, and suspensions for full season of both their GM and Manager, followed by the Astros owner firing both.
Then the Boston Red Sox and their manager agree to part ways as Cora admitted his involvement in the Astros scandal, and the Red Sox are still under investigation for possibly cheating during their championship season as well.
And the New York Mets are now having to look at their new manager Beltran as he was a member of the Astros team as well.
I don't know if the punishment is severe enough to be honest. You look back at past disciplines and the 2 that jump out at me first are the 1919 Chicago White Sox scandal where 8 players were suspended for life for throwing the world series. And the 2nd is Pete Rose, who was found to have bet on baseball, and in particular his team when he was the manager of the Reds. Not only was he banned for life, he can also not be on the ballot for his HOF playing career. I'm not sure how this will all end up in the end, but it is truly an historically bad week for the sport, especially when you consider 2 teams won the world series in back to back seasons.
In the end, I think an asterisk will end up tarnishing those 2 championships, if not both teams losing the titles.
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Post by hsbob on Jan 16, 2020 12:13:40 GMT -6
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Post by tincup on Jan 21, 2020 10:53:05 GMT -6
No collar crime also pays when the benefits outweigh the harm to the criminals.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2020 9:44:03 GMT -6
So with the findings that led MLB to suspend and punish the Astros, and led to 3 managers being fired or resigning, Pete Rose is now asking for reinstatement and taken off the lifetime suspension. And quite frankly I agree! What he did as a manager was wrong, but was nowhere near what the Astros as a team did, possibly leading to their championship. Rose bet on his team to WIN, and from all reports I remember seeing only as a manager, not as a player. He belongs in the HOF for his playing career. Removing him from the lifetime ban is the right thing to do, and entering him into the HOF as a player is long overdue.
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Post by T-man2010 on Feb 6, 2020 14:50:33 GMT -6
So with the findings that led MLB to suspend and punish the Astros, and led to 3 managers being fired or resigning, Pete Rose is now asking for reinstatement and taken off the lifetime suspension. And quite frankly I agree! What he did as a manager was wrong, but was nowhere near what the Astros as a team did, possibly leading to their championship. Rose bet on his team to WIN, and from all reports I remember seeing only as a manager, not as a player. He belongs in the HOF for his playing career. Removing him from the lifetime ban is the right thing to do, and entering him into the HOF as a player is long overdue. After they remove the Ban on "Shoeless Joe", he was found not guilty afterall. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 10, 2020 20:54:45 GMT -6
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Post by gigecj on Feb 14, 2020 14:54:19 GMT -6
So with the findings that led MLB to suspend and punish the Astros, and led to 3 managers being fired or resigning, Pete Rose is now asking for reinstatement and taken off the lifetime suspension. And quite frankly I agree! What he did as a manager was wrong, but was nowhere near what the Astros as a team did, possibly leading to their championship. Rose bet on his team to WIN, and from all reports I remember seeing only as a manager, not as a player. He belongs in the HOF for his playing career. Removing him from the lifetime ban is the right thing to do, and entering him into the HOF as a player is long overdue. After they remove the Ban on "Shoeless Joe", he was found not guilty afterall. I agree concerning Pete Rose. I never really liked him as a person, but I couldn't get enough of his constant hustle (hence the nickname). I think Pete has paid for his "crimes" and ought to be reinstated a probationary status which should be easy for him to honor at this point in his life. After all, unlike the 1919 "Black Sox," he wasn't reported to have "thrown" any games. He only bet for his team to do well as far as I'm aware. I actually saw Pete in Cooperstown in the summer of 1999. It was a sad scene for me. I'm there, of course, to visit Baseball's Hall of Fame and he's down the street selling baseball paraphernalia. He looked haggard and his smile appeared to be camo for a very beaten man. He looked older than his age. Regarding the Astros, it wasn't sign stealing per se. That's always been a part of baseball. It was the ways and means of the stealing. It wasn't anymore sportsmanship wherein you're stealing directly from a catcher while you're on second base. That's also on the catcher for his lack of security in such a strategically dangerous moment with the runner staring at his fingers. It does great harm to the game. It takes away from pitcher's careers and earning potential, steals the chance for another team to raise the trophy, etc. and it's all done outside the realm of sportsmanship. I would have been ok if the players on the bench at that time had their hands slapped as well. I regard the 2017 Astros as an asterisk. Shoeless Joe, not only was he found "not guilty" as was the case with the rest of them, but he may have shown the most contrition. Years later, Ty Cobb would visit him at Joe's liquor store in Georgia. He was afraid to admit to Cobb who he was. He was afraid anyone from "that world" would face him again. What a tragic way to live having all the talent in the world. He basically died "shoeless." |
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Post by jacksalmon on Feb 14, 2020 17:06:13 GMT -6
It is absolutely clear to me without a shred of doubt that the Astros should be stripped of the title with no title awarded that year. The only reason MLB won't do that is because they don't want to have the actual notation in their records that there was no champ that year because the Astros were cheaters. The way it is now, the fuss will blow over and fans 50 years from now will have no clue and will believe the Astros were the legitimate champs that year. MLB should be supremely embarrassed over its failure to strip them of the title. Someone should organize a national boycott of baseball games this year until MLB does the right thing. A boycott would cause MLB to act immediately.
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 14, 2020 23:05:29 GMT -6
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Post by jacksalmon on Feb 15, 2020 10:07:20 GMT -6
I don't know soccer from badminton, but I am guessing that they could not strip Manchester of any titles since they had none during the time of violation, unlike the Astros. But, it really doesn't matter because MLB is a separate situation and the Astros should lose their title. Whether there should be any further playoff bans is a debate to be had at the start of which I have no position. |
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Post by jimakablkhwks918 on Mar 6, 2020 14:09:19 GMT -6
After they remove the Ban on "Shoeless Joe", he was found not guilty afterall. I agree concerning Pete Rose. I never really liked him as a person, but I couldn't get enough of his constant hustle (hence the nickname). I think Pete has paid for his "crimes" and ought to be reinstated a probationary status which should be easy for him to honor at this point in his life. After all, unlike the 1919 "Black Sox," he wasn't reported to have "thrown" any games. He only bet for his team to do well as far as I'm aware. I actually saw Pete in Cooperstown in the summer of 1999. It was a sad scene for me. I'm there, of course, to visit Baseball's Hall of Fame and he's down the street selling baseball paraphernalia. He looked haggard and his smile appeared to be camo for a very beaten man. He looked older than his age. Regarding the Astros, it wasn't sign stealing per se. That's always been a part of baseball. It was the ways and means of the stealing. It wasn't anymore sportsmanship wherein you're stealing directly from a catcher while you're on second base. That's also on the catcher for his lack of security in such a strategically dangerous moment with the runner staring at his fingers. It does great harm to the game. It takes away from pitcher's careers and earning potential, steals the chance for another team to raise the trophy, etc. and it's all done outside the realm of sportsmanship. I would have been ok if the players on the bench at that time had their hands slapped as well. I regard the 2017 Astros as an asterisk. Shoeless Joe, not only was he found "not guilty" as was the case with the rest of them, but he may have shown the most contrition. Years later, Ty Cobb would visit him at Joe's liquor store in Georgia. He was afraid to admit to Cobb who he was. He was afraid anyone from "that world" would face him again. What a tragic way to live having all the talent in the world. He basically died "shoeless." I've seen Rose as well....every time I go to Vegas, he's having a signing event at some memorabilia store or another. Sadder that there never seems to be anyone there. He does look defeated, and can barely make eye contact. Jackson had a liquor store in South Carolina; when Cobb visited, he waited for Jackson to say hello....finally he said, "Joe don't you recognize me?" Jackson replied, "Yeah, but I figured you wouldn't want to talk to me either, most of them don't" IMO, the punishments laid down by MLB are a joke; $5M is bench player FFS. They should vacate the titles, period. No asterisk, no award to the losing team, just no winner in '17 and '18. |
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