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Post by squishy24 on Nov 9, 2021 11:12:35 GMT -6
“ If Blackhawk or the Sauk (or other tribes associated with Blackhawk) find it offensive that a hockey team is using their name and culture, then by all means, get rid of all of it. “ I said in another post that I try to accept differing opinions because it's a touchy subject and I'll keep trying. Why call anyone 'this,that or the other thing' if they have a different viewpoint? i think im getting confused here. I agree with what youre saying, per quote, if they want it remove, then remove it from the hockey team. i dont think i was offering a different viewpoint. As for calling anyone names, i didnt say mvr is part of the woke crowd. i said that, people should mind where the complains are coming from, IF it is coming from the "woke crowd" then fuck the woke crowd. they are irrelevant to this issue.
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Post by hsbob on Nov 9, 2021 11:32:55 GMT -6
I said in another post that I try to accept differing opinions because it's a touchy subject and I'll keep trying. Why call anyone 'this,that or the other thing' if they have a different viewpoint? i think im getting confused here. I agree with what youre saying, per quote, if they want it remove, then remove it from the hockey team. i dont think i was offering a different viewpoint. As for calling anyone names, i didnt say mvr is part of the woke crowd. i said that, people should mind where the complains are coming from, IF it is coming from the "woke crowd" then fuck the woke crowd. they are irrelevant to this issue. Our viewpoints do differ......greatly. Since I'm not Native American but find the logo offensive I must be in that 'woke' or 'cancel culture' you had to bring into this and why "fuck them" on a fairly friendly message board unless you want it to be unfriendly.....fast? Why do you get to decide who's opinion is relevant and why is yours more relevant that anyone else's?
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Post by squishy24 on Nov 9, 2021 11:43:50 GMT -6
The team is not going to win this public relations battle by only dipping a toe in the water. They need to go all in. The next generation coming has a very strong moral code about these issues. Soon they will be in charge. They need to be convinced that the Hawks' intentions here are honourable. So far, I am not seeing it. There is no doubt, however, that the team "supports the troops" ( for whatever meaning we attribute to that message). ^ and therein lies the root of the problem. It's all about how individuals perceive things. they put their own interpretation and act upon it, how about finding the truth or real meaning? for example, the blackhawks hockey team logo: - in short, i find the use/meaning of it as an honor to the native americans, represents the strengths and perseverance. great motivation for a team - hsbob already mentioned that it symbolizes the massacre and its a symbol/trophy to all the nasty things done to the native americans - you mentioned that it represents the "fierce gladiator names to make their organizations appear intimidating" (somewhat close to my interpretation) i understand your point that the Blackhawks organization need to get ahead of the next generations (interpretation of things). As you said "They need to be convinced that the Hawks' intentions here are honourable" but its never about whats right and wrong anymore, is it? the next generation moral code, is it right? but to your point, its irrelevant as well, as they are and their "interpretations and meanings" are the new force to be reckon with and sadly even if they are in the wrong, the Blackhawks hockey team might have to succumb to it.
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Post by squishy24 on Nov 9, 2021 11:54:09 GMT -6
i think im getting confused here. I agree with what youre saying, per quote, if they want it remove, then remove it from the hockey team. i dont think i was offering a different viewpoint. As for calling anyone names, i didnt say mvr is part of the woke crowd. i said that, people should mind where the complains are coming from, IF it is coming from the "woke crowd" then fuck the woke crowd. they are irrelevant to this issue. Our viewpoints do differ......greatly. Since I'm not Native American but find the logo offensive I must be in that 'woke' or 'cancel culture' you had to bring into this and why "fuck them" on a fairly friendly message board unless you want it to be unfriendly.....fast? Why do you get to decide who's opinion is relevant and why is yours more relevant that anyone else's? hsbob, fuck the woke crowd. just because you find the logo offensive doesnt mean youre part of the woke crowd. lets not leap logic here. if you put yourself in that crowd, then you did that, i never put you there or mvr or anyone. read my post above this. we all have opinions in the matter, and just like yours AND MINE, they are all irrelevant to it. this is between the native americans and blackhawks management. but let me understand where youre coming from, you "feel" and "think" and thus your opinion that the blackhawks logo is offensive, that correct, right? i "feel" and "think" thats its not. neither of us is right or wrong, where do you find our opinions or thoughts in the matter relevant to the issue?
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Post by hsbob on Nov 9, 2021 21:26:24 GMT -6
Our viewpoints do differ......greatly. Since I'm not Native American but find the logo offensive I must be in that 'woke' or 'cancel culture' you had to bring into this and why "fuck them" on a fairly friendly message board unless you want it to be unfriendly.....fast? Why do you get to decide who's opinion is relevant and why is yours more relevant that anyone else's? hsbob, fuck the woke crowd. just because you find the logo offensive doesnt mean youre part of the woke crowd. lets not leap logic here. if you put yourself in that crowd, then you did that, i never put you there or mvr or anyone. read my post above this. we all have opinions in the matter, and just like yours AND MINE, they are all irrelevant to it. this is between the native americans and blackhawks management. but let me understand where youre coming from, you "feel" and "think" and thus your opinion that the blackhawks logo is offensive, that correct, right? i "feel" and "think" thats its not. neither of us is right or wrong, where do you find our opinions or thoughts in the matter relevant to the issue? You say fuck the woke crowd so often it's startin' to sound like white male rage. Just so ya know,I don't consider woke an insult either. This isn't between Native Americans and the Hawks mgnt,they never asked permission to use the likeness and name in the first place and I posted articles about how the Chicago American Indian center feels but Rocky's a rich,old white dude and he'll do what ever the fuck he wants.
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Post by mvr on Nov 10, 2021 7:23:25 GMT -6
We live in an age where all issues are painted in black or white where subtle shades of grey would be more appropriate.
Nobody I know, even the most "woke" absolutist, wants to "cancel" culture or steal a person's Christmas tree. They do want to make the world more fair and inclusive to everyone. We must fight to protect our freedoms. But there are also must be limits (especially when one person's freedoms interferes with another's). Some are obsessed with all the latest ridiculous fads. But on the other hand, change is not always bad. We have a responsibility to protect our institutions and traditions. But we also have an obligation to steer the boat as conditions change. Whatever happened to the vital centre? Compromise is not a dirty word.
I love the present Hawk uniform and will be very sad if it is drastically altered. But I also do not want to offend anyone unnecessarily and be on the wrong side of history.
Call me a "woke' sympathizer, but it seems clear to me that many Native people would prefer the Hawks change the logo. Hawk management has known for some time that these feelings exist (and clearly not just among the radical "woke" fringe). So far, they have done little to address these concerns. It will come to a head at some point, as it did elsewhere.
Ignoring the "woke" critique and painting the issue in black and white is not going to stem the tide.
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Post by BigT on Nov 10, 2021 7:59:37 GMT -6
We live in an age where all issues are painted in black or white where subtle shades of grey would be more appropriate. Nobody I know, even the most "woke" absolutist, wants to "cancel" culture or steal a person's Christmas tree. They do want to make the world more fair and inclusive to everyone. We must fight to protect our freedoms. But there are also must be limits (especially when one person's freedoms interferes with another's). Some are obsessed with all the latest ridiculous fads. But on the other hand, change is not always bad. We have a responsibility to protect our institutions and traditions. But we also have an obligation to steer the boat as conditions change. Whatever happened to the vital centre? Compromise is not a dirty word. I love the present Hawk uniform and will be very sad if it is drastically altered. But I also do not want to offend anyone unnecessarily and be on the wrong side of history. Call me a "woke' sympathizer, but it seems clear to me that many Native people would prefer the Hawks change the logo. Hawk management has known for some time that these feelings exist (and clearly not just among the radical "woke" fringe). So far, they have done little to address these concerns. It will come to a head at some point, as it did elsewhere. Ignoring the "woke" critique and painting the issue in black and white is not going to stem the tide. I fully agree on the “Center”. No one wants to meet in the middle anymore. On that point. Can the Chicago Blackhawks not meet with many indigenous tribes and try to explain their reasoning for this? Maybe find a middle ground? What’s done is done. We will never change that. Complaining about it will just create angst amongst another group. Let’s try and find middle ground. At least an attempt has to be made. Drawing a line in the sand is just helping the other side dig in their heels. I fully understand it takes both sides to make an agreement. But if at least one side doesn’t reach out, there’s no chance!!!
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Post by mvr on Nov 10, 2021 8:13:31 GMT -6
Traditionalists have every right to roll their eyes at the hypocritical way "woke" absolutists choose their grievances.
Nobody who respects decency and civility should ever defend those who deliberately provoke and offend by burning flags or taking a knee during the national anthem.
Clearly, everyone should have the right to express their concerns. But there are limits to what is appropriate.
If the Indianhead offends, we should think about changing it. If kneeling during the anthem offends, protesters should think about more inclusive ways of delivering messages.
I support many of the same causes as the football players who participated in the protest. The method they used to deliver the message was ignorant and indefensible. The approach only hardened the extremist cultural divisions in society.
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Post by mvr on Nov 10, 2021 8:15:03 GMT -6
Big T: Your idea should be tried first. No question about it.
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Post by squishy24 on Nov 10, 2021 8:46:09 GMT -6
hsbob, fuck the woke crowd. just because you find the logo offensive doesnt mean youre part of the woke crowd. lets not leap logic here. if you put yourself in that crowd, then you did that, i never put you there or mvr or anyone. read my post above this. we all have opinions in the matter, and just like yours AND MINE, they are all irrelevant to it. this is between the native americans and blackhawks management. but let me understand where youre coming from, you "feel" and "think" and thus your opinion that the blackhawks logo is offensive, that correct, right? i "feel" and "think" thats its not. neither of us is right or wrong, where do you find our opinions or thoughts in the matter relevant to the issue? You say fuck the woke crowd so often it's startin' to sound like white male rage. Just so ya know,I don't consider woke an insult either. This isn't between Native Americans and the Hawks mgnt,they never asked permission to use the likeness and name in the first place and I posted articles about how the Chicago American Indian center feels but Rocky's a rich,old white dude and he'll do what ever the fuck he wants. I'm sure in your research online youve come across articles about the Sauk/Fox nation and other native indian tribes currently working with the Blackhawks. But thats not good enough, right?
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Post by squishy24 on Nov 10, 2021 8:48:39 GMT -6
We live in an age where all issues are painted in black or white where subtle shades of grey would be more appropriate. Nobody I know, even the most "woke" absolutist, wants to "cancel" culture or steal a person's Christmas tree. They do want to make the world more fair and inclusive to everyone. We must fight to protect our freedoms. But there are also must be limits (especially when one person's freedoms interferes with another's). Some are obsessed with all the latest ridiculous fads. But on the other hand, change is not always bad. We have a responsibility to protect our institutions and traditions. But we also have an obligation to steer the boat as conditions change. Whatever happened to the vital centre? Compromise is not a dirty word. I love the present Hawk uniform and will be very sad if it is drastically altered. But I also do not want to offend anyone unnecessarily and be on the wrong side of history. Call me a "woke' sympathizer, but it seems clear to me that many Native people would prefer the Hawks change the logo. Hawk management has known for some time that these feelings exist (and clearly not just among the radical "woke" fringe). So far, they have done little to address these concerns. It will come to a head at some point, as it did elsewhere. Ignoring the "woke" critique and painting the issue in black and white is not going to stem the tide. I fully agree on the “Center”. No one wants to meet in the middle anymore. On that point. Can the Chicago Blackhawks not meet with many indigenous tribes and try to explain their reasoning for this? Maybe find a middle ground? What’s done is done. We will never change that. Complaining about it will just create angst amongst another group. Let’s try and find middle ground. At least an attempt has to be made. Drawing a line in the sand is just helping the other side dig in their heels. I fully understand it takes both sides to make an agreement. But if at least one side doesn’t reach out, there’s no chance!!! i would assume they have, considering they have native american indians in pregame ceremonies. if you google them, there are agreements and concessions between the two sides. people just research to find facts for their own narrative. (not you specifically), it takes only a google search to see the other side
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Post by mvr on Nov 10, 2021 8:55:19 GMT -6
We all know individual leaders can be bought off.
The participation of a few token Sauk nation representatives is somewhat meaningless. There needs to be broad consensus within the entire Native population in North America.
This only happens if the Hawks can make a convincing public relations argument that their intentions are honourable.
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Post by mvr on Nov 10, 2021 8:57:38 GMT -6
When the Shah of Iran embraced US foreign policy, we were convinced he represented his people. In truth, he only represented his own interests.
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Post by BigT on Nov 10, 2021 9:36:48 GMT -6
We also have to look at other points of view. Would people of colour enjoy their face or a rendition of their face on a sports jersey? Would white people accept something similar? A white persons face imprinted on a sports jersey or logo worn dominantly by people of colour?
For myself only. It would not bother me one bit if it was used to say that person was a great person and it could raise awareness. Now, if a team in the future used Graham James or Brad Alldick. I’d be angry and not want that to see the light of day. Now, others may feel different. That’s fine. But working together should be first priority. It seems that people are becoming offended by someone who’s offended!!!
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Post by hsbob on Nov 10, 2021 9:37:50 GMT -6
I fully agree on the “Center”. No one wants to meet in the middle anymore. On that point. Can the Chicago Blackhawks not meet with many indigenous tribes and try to explain their reasoning for this? Maybe find a middle ground? What’s done is done. We will never change that. Complaining about it will just create angst amongst another group. Let’s try and find middle ground. At least an attempt has to be made. Drawing a line in the sand is just helping the other side dig in their heels. I fully understand it takes both sides to make an agreement. But if at least one side doesn’t reach out, there’s no chance!!! i would assume they have, considering they have native american indians in pregame ceremonies. if you google them, there are agreements and concessions between the two sides. people just research to find facts for their own narrative. (not you specifically), it takes only a google search to see the other side Just research and post your own facts and links then.......of course I post those that help me form my opinion. I did do a search of Native American's feelings about the Black Hawks logo and I linked this a few times already... www.quora.com/How-do-native-Americans-feel-about-the-claim-that-Chicago-Blackhawks-are-celebrating-a-native-American-heroI linked the one above a few times now becaus it seemed fair,there were others that called the team racist that I purposely left out because I disagree with that. I don't don't see an effort to demean or insult Native Americans in keeping the logo but that doesn't mean the Org hasn't profited off the likeness of an actual human being.
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Post by hsbob on Nov 10, 2021 9:39:38 GMT -6
You say fuck the woke crowd so often it's startin' to sound like white male rage. Just so ya know,I don't consider woke an insult either. This isn't between Native Americans and the Hawks mgnt,they never asked permission to use the likeness and name in the first place and I posted articles about how the Chicago American Indian center feels but Rocky's a rich,old white dude and he'll do what ever the fuck he wants. I'm sure in your research online youve come across articles about the Sauk/Fox nation and other native indian tribes currently working with the Blackhawks. But thats not good enough, right? What's good enough for you might not be good enough for someone else.
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Post by hsbob on Nov 10, 2021 9:49:46 GMT -6
We all know individual leaders can be bought off. The participation of a few token Sauk nation representatives is somewhat meaningless. There needs to be broad consensus within the entire Native population in North America. This only happens if the Hawks can make a convincing public relations argument that their intentions are honourable. The "broad consensus" is a difficult task,just local tribes? All midwest Ojibway and Algonquin descendants only? A national tribal consensus on all Native names and likenesses? This speaks to reaching the marginalized reservation inhabitants living in overt poverty without basic internet and most of the other modern day conveniences we're all used to including running water.... therealnews.com/the-navajo-nations-water-crisis#waterislife #istandwithstandingrock
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Post by mvr on Nov 10, 2021 10:14:17 GMT -6
My feeling is that an overwhelming majority of the entire North American Native population must be on board and supportive.
They are all impacted.
This is why token gestures to local tribes is not going to wash. The entire message has to change.
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Post by squishy24 on Nov 10, 2021 10:27:37 GMT -6
I'm sure in your research online youve come across articles about the Sauk/Fox nation and other native indian tribes currently working with the Blackhawks. But thats not good enough, right? What's good enough for you might not be good enough for someone else. The Sauks or native american indian tribes says the arrangements and concessions that the Blackhawks management is good enough for them. Where does your opinion matter in the big picture?
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Nov 10, 2021 11:24:26 GMT -6
I grew up in Fort McMurray (Northern Alberta) from 77-98 and there's two reservations just outside and I had a lot of native friends growing up. Most liked the Oilers or another team but I never heard anyone say bad things about Chicago's name or logo, in fact they like it.
I've lived in Edmonton the majority of the past 20+yrs and there's a lot of natives here as well and again, the ones I've met from work or playing hockey have never said a bad thing. But they've said bad things about the Redskins or Braves, rightfully so.
The Hawks shouldn't change their logo or name because a few Karens are upset.
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Post by hsbob on Nov 10, 2021 11:33:50 GMT -6
What's good enough for you might not be good enough for someone else. The Sauks or native american indian tribes says the arrangements and concessions that the Blackhawks management is good enough for them. Where does your opinion matter in the big picture? Link proof to this or it makes a poor argument......I've linked proof to the contrary several times. Where does your opinion matter in the big picture?
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Post by squishy24 on Nov 10, 2021 11:37:56 GMT -6
I grew up in Fort McMurray (Northern Alberta) from 77-98 and there's two reservations just outside and I had a lot of native friends growing up. Most liked the Oilers or another team but I never heard anyone say bad things about Chicago's name or logo, in fact they like it. I've lived in Edmonton the majority of the past 20+yrs and there's a lot of natives here as well and again, the ones I've met from work or playing hockey have never said a bad thing. But they've said bad things about the Redskins or Braves, rightfully so. The Hawks shouldn't change their logo or name because a few Karens are upset. dont you know, their opinions dont matter. you have to cater to the offended ones
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Post by squishy24 on Nov 10, 2021 11:41:59 GMT -6
The Sauks or native american indian tribes says the arrangements and concessions that the Blackhawks management is good enough for them. Where does your opinion matter in the big picture? Link proof to this or it makes a poor argument......I've linked proof to the contrary several times. Where does your opinion matter in the big picture? proof are all over the internet. its easy to google "sauks and chicago blackhawks" and you will find articles that they are cooperating and working together. I'm pretty sure you've searched the same thing ("sauks and chicago blackhawks") before and come across them, but chose to read the ones that support your narrative. i already said, my opinion doesnt matter, just like yours. this is between the sauks and the blackhawks.
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Post by squishy24 on Nov 10, 2021 11:44:07 GMT -6
this is basically how it is
native american indian tribes: were fine with the status quo and dont mind keeping it that way
blackhawks management: were fine with the status quo and dont mind keeping it that way
people who are neither associated or affiliated with native americans or the blackhawks management: "No!! your cant keep the status quo! you have to change!! because my internet research and thoughts and feelings"
anyway im done with this and take my own advise of not sticking my nose to other people's business
stay classy everyone
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Post by hsbob on Nov 10, 2021 11:44:52 GMT -6
I grew up in Fort McMurray (Northern Alberta) from 77-98 and there's two reservations just outside and I had a lot of native friends growing up. Most liked the Oilers or another team but I never heard anyone say bad things about Chicago's name or logo, in fact they like it. I've lived in Edmonton the majority of the past 20+yrs and there's a lot of natives here as well and again, the ones I've met from work or playing hockey have never said a bad thing. But they've said bad things about the Redskins or Braves, rightfully so. The Hawks shouldn't change their logo or name because a few Karens are upset. This is so FUCKING difficult when I have to come back at posters I respect like you and squish but I haven't called anyone a single fucking name for supporting the logo and if you can show me prof of doing so....I'll quit right now! So "fuck me' because I'm some kind of "woke" "karen" because I think the time has come for a change? Where the fuck should I go with that OTH....seriously? I can get REAL shitty too but thankfully I have somewhere else to let loose on non-hockey issues so I'll keep my powder dry for now but I do expect the same respect I show others and I'll abide insults no longer but I will for now in an attempt to stay away from the issues we said we would in another thread.
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Post by hsbob on Nov 10, 2021 11:46:38 GMT -6
I grew up in Fort McMurray (Northern Alberta) from 77-98 and there's two reservations just outside and I had a lot of native friends growing up. Most liked the Oilers or another team but I never heard anyone say bad things about Chicago's name or logo, in fact they like it. I've lived in Edmonton the majority of the past 20+yrs and there's a lot of natives here as well and again, the ones I've met from work or playing hockey have never said a bad thing. But they've said bad things about the Redskins or Braves, rightfully so. The Hawks shouldn't change their logo or name because a few Karens are upset. dont you know, their opinions dont matter. you have to cater to the offended ones Gotta cater to white male rage too pal,especially on a hockey board.
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Post by hsbob on Nov 10, 2021 11:49:46 GMT -6
Link proof to this or it makes a poor argument......I've linked proof to the contrary several times. Where does your opinion matter in the big picture? proof are all over the internet. its easy to google "sauks and chicago blackhawks" and you will find articles that they are cooperating and working together. I'm pretty sure you've searched the same thing ("sauks and chicago blackhawks") before and come across them, but chose to read the ones that support your narrative. i already said, my opinion doesnt matter, just like yours. this is between the sauks and the blackhawks. For God's sake squish,do you not know how to cut and paste.I'm 64 and I do. Back up that claim about cooperation. This is page 1 of a Bing search for 'Native American's feelings about the Blackhawks'...... www.bing.com/search?q=native+americans+feelings+on+the+blachkawks+&form=ANNTH1&refig=702550a2e8784372b141f69ff3025f7dOf course I link articles to enforce my opinion and I suggest you do the same.....it's kinda how this shit works. I also posted several times showing the 'Chicago American Indian Center' saying they no longer support the logo which you absolutely ignore.
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Post by mvr on Nov 10, 2021 14:32:21 GMT -6
When we use names to insult each other, let's make sure we apply the proper references.
A "Karen" refers to a middle-aged entitled white woman (typically racist) who complains to the manager when she does not receive the service she wants.
I do not believe too many Karens are worried about the Hawks' response to indigenous concerns over cultural appropriation.
A better term might be "bleeding heart" or "pinko." Even better might be "hippie- commie." I always liked that one. Hippies had good dope and played good music.
The word "woke" in its traditional sense means someone who is conscious or aware of the history and continued existence of systemic racism and its impact. I would hope we are all "woke." The opposite of "woke" to my mind is "ignorant."
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Nov 10, 2021 15:39:47 GMT -6
I grew up in Fort McMurray (Northern Alberta) from 77-98 and there's two reservations just outside and I had a lot of native friends growing up. Most liked the Oilers or another team but I never heard anyone say bad things about Chicago's name or logo, in fact they like it. I've lived in Edmonton the majority of the past 20+yrs and there's a lot of natives here as well and again, the ones I've met from work or playing hockey have never said a bad thing. But they've said bad things about the Redskins or Braves, rightfully so. The Hawks shouldn't change their logo or name because a few Karens are upset. This is so FUCKING difficult when I have to come back at posters I respect like you and squish but I haven't called anyone a single fucking name for supporting the logo and if you can show me prof of doing so....I'll quit right now! So "fuck me' because I'm some kind of "woke" "karen" because I think the time has come for a change? Where the fuck should I go with that OTH....seriously? I can get REAL shitty too but thankfully I have somewhere else to let loose on non-hockey issues so I'll keep my powder dry for now but I do expect the same respect I show others and I'll abide insults no longer but I will for now in an attempt to stay away from the issues we said we would in another thread. I was just giving my 2 cents on the opinions of the natives that I've been around and wasn't calling you a Karen, so I apologize that it seemed that way. I meant in general it seems like the people who are demanding changes are a small group. Most of the things they want changed it doesn't pertain to them and they're just trying to act woke. Like being offended by the Hawks name and logo if you aren't a native or visible minority. I know you aren't offended by the name and logo but you're ok if the logo is changed, I'd be ok if it was changed to an actual black hawk so the name stays. That's just a bird of prey, I hope no one would be offended but you never know 🤷♂️
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Post by squishy24 on Nov 10, 2021 17:17:37 GMT -6
proof are all over the internet. its easy to google "sauks and chicago blackhawks" and you will find articles that they are cooperating and working together. I'm pretty sure you've searched the same thing ("sauks and chicago blackhawks") before and come across them, but chose to read the ones that support your narrative. i already said, my opinion doesnt matter, just like yours. this is between the sauks and the blackhawks. For God's sake squish,do you not know how to cut and paste.I'm 64 and I do. Back up that claim about cooperation. This is page 1 of a Bing search for 'Native American's feelings about the Blackhawks'...... www.bing.com/search?q=native+americans+feelings+on+the+blachkawks+&form=ANNTH1&refig=702550a2e8784372b141f69ff3025f7dOf course I link articles to enforce my opinion and I suggest you do the same.....it's kinda how this shit works. I also posted several times showing the 'Chicago American Indian Center' saying they no longer support the logo which you absolutely ignore. open google.com -. type "sauk and chicago blackhawks" you'll see links such as these in the page; www.tricksterculturalcenter.org/blackhawks-partnership - Chicago Blackhawks Partnership Trickster Cultural Center www.nhl.com/blackhawks/team/native-american-initiatives - Native American Initiatives | Chicago Blackhawks - NHL www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/chicago-blackhawks-will-keep-name-pledge-to-expand-awareness-of-black-hawks-legacy/ - Chicago Blackhawks will keep name, pledge to... thats just some articles, each one talks about cooperation and partnership with both the native americans and the blackhawks. Not satisfied yet? go to this site www.sacandfoxnation-nsn.gov/ - the official Sac and Fox nation website. search for blackhawks - they had a powerpoint presentation announcing their partnership with the Chicago Blackhawks anything else you want? who are you speaking for? The Chicago American Indian Center? do they speak for the Sauks? what is their end game? what is your end game? If Sauks have no problem with it, why do you ? As for your quora link - thats just some random "independent researcher" four paragraph opinion with no data or anything backing him up. he even said "They (blackhawks) have, however, created outreach programs with the intent of educating the public about Native American culture, history, and issues." - are those not cooperation with the natives? These links not good enough? how about physical evidence. explain why there are indians in pre-game ceremonies, if they hate the blackhawks so much, why are they there? how about the native indians passing out pamphlets in the United Center when there is a Blackhawks game? Are they not there to support their partnership with the Hawks? I respect your opinion about the logo being a symbol atrocities - however morbid that may be. but dont you think thats a bit of a stretch? no team owner (hell, no one) thinks "i want a symbol that forever and everyday remind people that we nearly wiped an entire tribe of native people"
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