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Post by BigT on Jul 7, 2020 16:14:30 GMT -6
what! another avatar OTH? oh my gawd. what is that....#7? 6? 8? not my business....but i would like you to decide on 1 avatar....and i'd prefer about 15-20% hot pink if you could. : ) come on....i'm not albertan by birth but i've spent more time there than my home province and i know you albertans aren't indecisive. I would get used to that avatar, it might not be too long before you see our beloved team skating with something similar on their chests. I’m all for forward progress. But the “Indian Head” is paying respect and homage to Chief Blackhawk of Illinois. I really see nothing wrong with paying homage to a great person in history. Do the Florida Seminoles have to change their name? I can see how the Red Skins can be offensive, cuz it kinda is. Anyways, I don’t wanna see us lose our logo. Blackhawks are not an offensive name. The helicopter isn’t either. Let’s hope we aren’t forced to feel shame over liking the logo all these years. When we were just watching hockey!!! |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 7, 2020 17:16:46 GMT -6
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Post by vadarx on Jul 7, 2020 20:03:37 GMT -6
I would get used to that avatar, it might not be too long before you see our beloved team skating with something similar on their chests. I’m all for forward progress. But the “Indian Head” is paying respect and homage to Chief Blackhawk of Illinois. I really see nothing wrong with paying homage to a great person in history. Do the Florida Seminoles have to change their name? I can see how the Red Skins can be offensive, cuz it kinda is. Anyways, I don’t wanna see us lose our logo. Blackhawks are not an offensive name. The helicopter isn’t either. Let’s hope we aren’t forced to feel shame over liking the logo all these years. When we were just watching hockey!!! listen, I love the Crest and such as much as any 'hawks fan. I can't disagree with you as far as not finding it disrespectful. I would very much like for it to be around for the duration of my go at life..... however, the fact of the matter is my opinion and your's and anyone else that isn't an indigenous person here means exactly jack and shit. I've always thought the 'hawks did a good job of being active within the Native American community and the statement GT posted above tells me they will at least appear to continue to do so, but if those that are part of that community find it disrespectful and want it changed, then I believe it should be changed. no hair off my ass, anyway. they could call the team the shit eaters and I'll still root for em, although I dunno if I would wanna buy that sweater..... |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 7, 2020 20:08:12 GMT -6
can't say I am surprised. I didn't figure it was imminent or anything, but I would count on it happening down the road. I've always thought the 'hawks worked well with the local Native communities. then I found this the other night: aicchicago.org/statement-on-blackhawks/I did not know they did this last year. I would say once the Redskins and Indians have changed their names, advocate groups will almost surely target the Braves, Chiefs, and Blackhawks next. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 7, 2020 20:37:08 GMT -6
I’m all for forward progress. But the “Indian Head” is paying respect and homage to Chief Blackhawk of Illinois. I really see nothing wrong with paying homage to a great person in history. Do the Florida Seminoles have to change their name? I can see how the Red Skins can be offensive, cuz it kinda is. Anyways, I don’t wanna see us lose our logo. Blackhawks are not an offensive name. The helicopter isn’t either. Let’s hope we aren’t forced to feel shame over liking the logo all these years. When we were just watching hockey!!! listen, I love the Crest and such as much as any 'hawks fan. I can't disagree with you as far as not finding it disrespectful. I would very much like for it to be around for the duration of my go at life..... however, the fact of the matter is my opinion and your's and anyone else that isn't an indigenous person here means exactly jack and shit. I've always thought the 'hawks did a good job of being active within the Native American community and the statement GT posted above tells me they will at least appear to continue to do so, but if those that are part of that community find it disrespectful and want it changed, then I believe it should be changed. no hair off my ass, anyway. they could call the team the shit eaters and I'll still root for em, although I dunno if I would wanna buy that sweater..... I grew up with some native Canadians. Cool guys. They taught me a lot and the best thing about them, they didn’t find anything offensive and didn’t really care what anyone thought about them. Hardest workers they were, and they’d take nothing for free. There’s a few others I was acquaintances with and it never really came up about being treated wrong or there were social problems. But that’s just where I grew up. I don’t really recall racism being much of a memory. I find it too bad that people have been treated poorly and the names of teams and such have to be changed when I highly doubt they’re names were being used as a racist tool. I get it, it may be taken that way. At least let the teams and such explain their reason for it. If it’s shit or don’t even care to have one, then they should change. Sports bring people together, and I hope some common ground can be found. Maybe I’m ignorant to some of the names and their history. But I really don’t think the names were put in place to poke fun at indigenous people or anyone not white. But again, I know mostly what I e experienced, and it wasn’t much of an issue around here at all!!! |
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Post by hawks27 on Jul 7, 2020 22:08:02 GMT -6
Remember that the name BLACKHAWK was actually a tribute to the hockey team's owner's military unit in WWI. Yeah, I know, "where did they get that name for the military unit?" but that was the fact and the owner (I believe his name was McLaughlin, or something like that) was strongly influenced by his military unit and wanted to name the hockey team to shine honor on them for their performance in WWI.
We, in North Dakota, went through all of this stuff about the UND "Fighting Sioux" name and it was finally changed a few years ago. People still call them "Sioux" and wear all kinds of memorabilia they have from past seasons when it was the name. I know a lot of Sioux people that are not offended and love that the name was used. The few very vocal and "never happy about much" were the main pushing force to cause the name change.
Just ask Toews about this situation. He knows that the fans in Grand Forks were ultra respectful in the use of the "Sioux" name, but I would have to admit that opponents' fans (when UND was on the road) might have been where the problems were.
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 8, 2020 0:55:16 GMT -6
can't say I am surprised. I didn't figure it was imminent or anything, but I would count on it happening down the road. I've always thought the 'hawks worked well with the local Native communities. then I found this the other night: aicchicago.org/statement-on-blackhawks/I did not know they did this last year. I would say once the Redskins and Indians have changed their names, advocate groups will almost surely target the Braves, Chiefs, and Blackhawks next. first off....your post before this one was spot on and i couldn't have said it better and am in full agreement. i took a peek at that link you posted, particularly this line. Going forward, AIC will have no professional ties with the Blackhawks, or any other organization that perpetuates harmful stereotypes.
i just don't see how the blackhawk's organization is perpetuating any harmful stereotypes. or am i just so out of touch with how strongly the indigenous people feel about this? if they haven't already, it'd be nice if they could specify the harmful stereotypes so's maybe moves could be made to eliminate them without having to change names or logos. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 8, 2020 1:59:54 GMT -6
can't say I am surprised. I didn't figure it was imminent or anything, but I would count on it happening down the road. I've always thought the 'hawks worked well with the local Native communities. then I found this the other night: aicchicago.org/statement-on-blackhawks/I did not know they did this last year. I would say once the Redskins and Indians have changed their names, advocate groups will almost surely target the Braves, Chiefs, and Blackhawks next. first off....your post before this one was spot on and i couldn't have said it better and am in full agreement. i took a peek at that link you posted, particularly this line. Going forward, AIC will have no professional ties with the Blackhawks, or any other organization that perpetuates harmful stereotypes.
i just don't see how the blackhawk's organization is perpetuating any harmful stereotypes. or am i just so out of touch with how strongly the indigenous people feel about this? if they haven't already, it'd be nice if they could specify the harmful stereotypes so's maybe moves could be made to eliminate them without having to change names or logos. hard to pinpoint the majority opinion whilst looking online, but from what I've gathered the main source of consternation in regards to the 'hawks is the logo. too cartoonish. I haven't really found any complaints about the name, tbh. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 8, 2020 2:45:38 GMT -6
first off....your post before this one was spot on and i couldn't have said it better and am in full agreement. i took a peek at that link you posted, particularly this line. Going forward, AIC will have no professional ties with the Blackhawks, or any other organization that perpetuates harmful stereotypes.
i just don't see how the blackhawk's organization is perpetuating any harmful stereotypes. or am i just so out of touch with how strongly the indigenous people feel about this? if they haven't already, it'd be nice if they could specify the harmful stereotypes so's maybe moves could be made to eliminate them without having to change names or logos. hard to pinpoint the majority opinion whilst looking online, but from what I've gathered the main source of consternation in regards to the 'hawks is the logo. too cartoonish. I haven't really found any complaints about the name, tbh. cartoonish. well....no comment. because i know i can't keep my bias out of it. and like you said. my opinion means jack and shit. not for me to decide. !!!!!!! GO SHITEATERS !!!!!!!just seeing how it looks. might take a while to grow on me tbh. : ) |
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Post by acesandeights on Jul 8, 2020 8:07:17 GMT -6
can't say I am surprised. I didn't figure it was imminent or anything, but I would count on it happening down the road. I've always thought the 'hawks worked well with the local Native communities. then I found this the other night: aicchicago.org/statement-on-blackhawks/I did not know they did this last year. I would say once the Redskins and Indians have changed their names, advocate groups will almost surely target the Braves, Chiefs, and Blackhawks next. first off....your post before this one was spot on and i couldn't have said it better and am in full agreement. i took a peek at that link you posted, particularly this line. Going forward, AIC will have no professional ties with the Blackhawks, or any other organization that perpetuates harmful stereotypes.
i just don't see how the blackhawk's organization is perpetuating any harmful stereotypes.
or am i just so out of touch with how strongly the indigenous people feel about this?
if they haven't already, it'd be nice if they could specify the harmful stereotypes so's maybe moves could be made to eliminate them without having to change names or logos.I agree, I'm not seeing where the Hawks organization is "perpetuating" a harmful stereotype. I concur on the second part, you said it very well; if they feel the Hawks are truly perpetuating harmful stereotypes, then they need to be specific about what problems they are seeing and tell the Hawks brass. That's how you start a dialogue and find common ground, instead of a general blanket statement and washing their hands of the affair. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 8, 2020 8:29:00 GMT -6
I love you guys but you all gotta admit were a bunch of white guys having no problem with a topic that others do have a problem with. Can anyone actually say a term like 'Redskins' isn't poking fun or more accurately just openly racist and this team name is still in effect. I personally feel the Chicago Blackhawks logo and team history IS respectable and I obviously have a soft spot for the Native American. I know none of us want to feel responsible for the atrocities wreaked upon the original Americans,'manifest destiny' was nothing more than 19th century code for ethnic cleansing and that cleansing was thorough and lasts to this day. It wasn't my ancestors that slaughtered the peaceful peoples at Sand Creek or Wounded knee either as far as I know but that doesn't stop me from wanting the keystone pipeline shut down or re-routed......it was purposely routed over reservation land instead of up-river due to the dangerous nature of pipeline/river crossings. The local Native population DEFINATELY didn't like this and showed up en mass to protest...….they were met with local law enforcement and heavily armed private security and the outcome was as it's always been for the Native American. THIS is what happens when the Red man takes issue with something as important as water in NA..... www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/29/standing-rock-protest-north-dakota-shutdown-evacuation The good guys won at Little Bighorn and …..ACAB! If you haven't seen Indian Horse' on Netflix,it's an eye opener and it's hockey centric as well. We have to remember that these people still don't have a voice or the Redskins wouldn't still be the name of a major sports franchise.....in the fuckin nation's capitol no less! Maybe they shoulda called the new NFL franchise in Tennessee the whitetrash,inbred jagoffs 20 years ago....LOL! Two separate treaties in the mid 1800's gave the Sioux the sacred Black hills until gold was found there and then the good Ol USofA hired a Clansman named Gutzon Borglum to permanently remind the rightful owners who the perpetrators were! Might as well be Crosby,Still,Nash and Young up there for all I give a fuck! I STAND WITH STANDING ROCK! |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 8, 2020 8:37:40 GMT -6
first off....your post before this one was spot on and i couldn't have said it better and am in full agreement. i took a peek at that link you posted, particularly this line. Going forward, AIC will have no professional ties with the Blackhawks, or any other organization that perpetuates harmful stereotypes.
i just don't see how the blackhawk's organization is perpetuating any harmful stereotypes.
or am i just so out of touch with how strongly the indigenous people feel about this?
if they haven't already, it'd be nice if they could specify the harmful stereotypes so's maybe moves could be made to eliminate them without having to change names or logos.I agree, I'm not seeing where the Hawks organization is "perpetuating" a harmful stereotype. I concur on the second part, you said it very well; if they feel the Hawks are truly perpetuating harmful stereotypes, then they need to be specific about what problems they are seeing and tell the Hawks brass. That's how you start a dialogue and find common ground, instead of a general blanket statement and washing their hands of the affair. The American Indian Center of Chicago made their views public and DID have a dialog with the Hawk brass as far as their statement and this is as close to a voice as the Native American will ever have. You and the rest of us white men don't see it but apparently the only Native American organization in Chicago does but you need specifics? What would the common ground be? |
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Post by acesandeights on Jul 8, 2020 10:39:33 GMT -6
I agree, I'm not seeing where the Hawks organization is "perpetuating" a harmful stereotype. I concur on the second part, you said it very well; if they feel the Hawks are truly perpetuating harmful stereotypes, then they need to be specific about what problems they are seeing and tell the Hawks brass. That's how you start a dialogue and find common ground, instead of a general blanket statement and washing their hands of the affair. The American Indian Center of Chicago made their views public and DID have a dialog with the Hawk brass as far as their statement and this is as close to a voice as the Native American will ever have. You and the rest of us white men don't see it but apparently the only Native American organization does but you need specifics? What would the common ground be? The common ground would be similar to what Florida State and the Seminole tribe did; they sat down and negotiated an agreement. FSU had the support of the Seminole tribe which I think was a requirement of the NCAA to retain a tribal nickname. FSU agreed to help the schools on the reservation and provide schol's for natives to attend FSU. I think doing away with the tomahawk chop may have been part of it too, though I'm not sure. The tribe turned down receiving a portion of souvenir sales. FSU also made minor changes to their logo, on their own, to make it less offensive. And cut down on how the mascot is used. Fla. St. was trying to do away with stereotypes and anything offensive. Now this is college and not pros but it seems pro teams could do something similar with area tribes. Being more active in the NA community is a good start. I appreciate you mentioning the Hawks having had a dialog with the AIC. Assuming the dialog took place in an attempt to come to an agreement of some kind, I'm guessing nothing really came of it if the AIC is saying they will cut ties with the Blackhawks and any other org. that perpetuates stereotypes. I'm waiting for the NCAA to tell Notre Dame they have to change their "Fighting Irish" nickname.  |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 8, 2020 11:39:29 GMT -6
The American Indian Center of Chicago made their views public and DID have a dialog with the Hawk brass as far as their statement and this is as close to a voice as the Native American will ever have. You and the rest of us white men don't see it but apparently the only Native American organization does but you need specifics? What would the common ground be? The common ground would be similar to what Florida State and the Seminole tribe did; they sat down and negotiated an agreement. FSU had the support of the Seminole tribe which I think was a requirement of the NCAA to retain a tribal nickname. FSU agreed to help the schools on the reservation and provide schol's for natives to attend FSU. I think doing away with the tomahawk chop may have been part of it too, though I'm not sure. The tribe turned down receiving a portion of souvenir sales. FSU also made minor changes to their logo, on their own, to make it less offensive. And cut down on how the mascot is used. Fla. St. was trying to do away with stereotypes and anything offensive. Now this is college and not pros but it seems pro teams could do something similar with area tribes. Being more active in the NA community is a good start. I appreciate you mentioning the Hawks having had a dialog with the AIC. Assuming the dialog took place in an attempt to come to an agreement of some kind, I'm guessing nothing really came of it if the AIC is saying they will cut ties with the Blackhawks and any other org. that perpetuates stereotypes. I'm waiting for the NCAA to tell Notre Dame they have to change their "Fighting Irish" nickname. If you're actually comparing the plight of the Irish American to what the Native Americans have endured here,I can recommend some reading. |
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Post by acesandeights on Jul 8, 2020 12:08:29 GMT -6
^^
It was said in jest; that was the purpose of the winking face. I guess I should have used purple.
I'm well aware of how Indians were treated. I live in what used to be called "Indian Territory".
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Post by hawks27 on Jul 12, 2020 18:42:10 GMT -6
I would get used to that avatar, it might not be too long before you see our beloved team skating with something similar on their chests. I’m all for forward progress. But the “Indian Head” is paying respect and homage to Chief Blackhawk of Illinois. I really see nothing wrong with paying homage to a great person in history. Do the Florida Seminoles have to change their name? I can see how the Red Skins can be offensive, cuz it kinda is. Anyways, I don’t wanna see us lose our logo. Blackhawks are not an offensive name. The helicopter isn’t either. Let’s hope we aren’t forced to feel shame over liking the logo all these years. When we were just watching hockey!!! I don't mean to stir up a fire again on this topic of the team name, but I thought I mention something that I just learned today. I am reading a book on the history of the Missouri River, which runs between my town (Mandan) and Bismarck, North Dakota. The book is very interesting and has tried to lay the foundation of how white people began to navigate it up from St. Louis to the northern areas (including North Dakota and Montana). It made mention of the chief of the Illinois tribe in 1727, and his name was Chicagou. I never knew how the name had come about but I figured that it was an Indian name. I hope they wouldn't move to rename the city. Maybe is was ok because they dropped the "u" from the end of it?
Our city's name, Mandan, is taken from the tribe that has been in this vicinity since before white men were here. The local high school teams are called the "Braves" and the logo is an Indian head with full war bonnet. There has been no problem with the Native American population with this. Some of the towns on the reservations here have names like Braves/Bravettes (for girls), Warriors, Chiefs.
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Post by hsbob on Jul 13, 2020 8:18:56 GMT -6
I’m all for forward progress. But the “Indian Head” is paying respect and homage to Chief Blackhawk of Illinois. I really see nothing wrong with paying homage to a great person in history. Do the Florida Seminoles have to change their name? I can see how the Red Skins can be offensive, cuz it kinda is. Anyways, I don’t wanna see us lose our logo. Blackhawks are not an offensive name. The helicopter isn’t either. Let’s hope we aren’t forced to feel shame over liking the logo all these years. When we were just watching hockey!!! I don't mean to stir up a fire again on this topic of the team name, but I thought I mention something that I just learned today. I am reading a book on the history of the Missouri River, which runs between my town (Mandan) and Bismarck, North Dakota. The book is very interesting and has tried to lay the foundation of how white people began to navigate it up from St. Louis to the northern areas (including North Dakota and Montana). It made mention of the chief of the Illinois tribe in 1727, and his name was Chicagou. I never knew how the name had come about but I figured that it was an Indian name. I hope they wouldn't move to rename the city. Maybe is was ok because they dropped the "u" from the end of it?
Our city's name, Mandan, is taken from the tribe that has been in this vicinity since before white men were here. The local high school teams are called the "Braves" and the logo is an Indian head with full war bonnet. There has been no problem with the Native American population with this. Some of the towns on the reservations here have names like Braves/Bravettes (for girls), Warriors, Chiefs.
Navigating that river was a dark day for what was a substantial population with substantial lands......did those white folks bring the small pox laced blankets on that trip or a later one? Reservations all across the country have such chemical dependency problems and a health care system that's basically MIA among other important issues,I doubt team names are high on the priority list and let me ask you this.......would the response be the same fire hoses and german shepherds we saw at Standing Rock if they did take issue with team names? "Moving to rename the city" Really? Another NON-Native just having a little fun with an issue that he has zero concern for? MY city's name originates from a Native term for the pungent onions that grew along the tributaries to the Chicago river as far as Chicago public schools curriculum was concerned. One of the French invaders changed it to it's current form. www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/07/how-chicago-got-its-name/Native Americans have every right to name their teams after their own heritage.......non natives should name their teams after their own too. After EIGHTY THREE disgusting years the NFL conglomerate in DC will rebrand itself soon while folks on the 'Res' many of which living on the edge of survival due in part to it's stereotype will hardly notice. Another one the good guys lost...... www.history.com/news/remembering-the-wounded-knee-massacreThere's a few good books about it too. |
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Post by hawks27 on Jul 13, 2020 10:50:40 GMT -6
I don't mean to stir up a fire again on this topic of the team name, but I thought I mention something that I just learned today. I am reading a book on the history of the Missouri River, which runs between my town (Mandan) and Bismarck, North Dakota. The book is very interesting and has tried to lay the foundation of how white people began to navigate it up from St. Louis to the northern areas (including North Dakota and Montana). It made mention of the chief of the Illinois tribe in 1727, and his name was Chicagou. I never knew how the name had come about but I figured that it was an Indian name. I hope they wouldn't move to rename the city. Maybe is was ok because they dropped the "u" from the end of it?
Our city's name, Mandan, is taken from the tribe that has been in this vicinity since before white men were here. The local high school teams are called the "Braves" and the logo is an Indian head with full war bonnet. There has been no problem with the Native American population with this. Some of the towns on the reservations here have names like Braves/Bravettes (for girls), Warriors, Chiefs.
Navigating that river was a dark day for what was a substantial population with substantial lands......did those white folks bring the small pox laced blankets on that trip or a later one? Reservations all across the country have such chemical dependency problems and a health care system that's basically MIA among other important issues,I doubt team names are high on the priority list and let me ask you this.......would the response be the same fire hoses and german shepherds we saw at Standing Rock if they did take issue with team names? "Moving to rename the city" Really? Another NON-Native just having a little fun with an issue that he has zero concern for? MY city's name originates from a Native term for the pungent onions that grew along the tributaries to the Chicago river as far as Chicago public schools curriculum was concerned. One of the French invaders changed it to it's current form. www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/07/how-chicago-got-its-name/Native Americans have every right to name their teams after their own heritage.......non natives should name their teams after their own too. After EIGHTY THREE disgusting years the NFL conglomerate in DC will rebrand itself soon while folks on the 'Res' many of which living on the edge of survival due in part to it's stereotype will hardly notice. Another one the good guys lost...... www.history.com/news/remembering-the-wounded-knee-massacreThere's a few good books about it too. Bob, I certainly didn't intend to give the impression that I'm just "another NON-Native having fun with an issue he has zero concern for." I have lived most of my life in North Dakota, except for 4 years of active duty in the Air Force (69-73). Growing up, my best friend was 1/2 Italian and 1/2 Apache. He passed away in the mid-ninties, and I still often remember the great times we had together. I didn't even think about his ancestory.
You have been (and still are) one of my favorite posters here, and from reading your posts regarding the Blackhawk name and your response to my post above, I know that the topic of the Native Americans is something you hold strongly to. But, I take great exception to you labeling me as a non-caring person as far as Native Americans are concerned. You don't know me, other than on this site.
I spent most of my working life in education and have had dealings with many Natives throughout my career. I understand their plight on the reservations and the breakdown of their family groups, often due to the chemical abuse that is so prevalent. But just like any ethnic group, there are good and bad people.
I know people who had some of their ancestors killed at Wounded Knee, Sand Creek, and even the Little Big Horn. I have always been greatly interested in the history of the US plains and the people who inhabit the area (both before and now). I recently finished reading a book ("Warpath") that was first published in the 1930's. It was a collection of interviews with a Chief White Bull. It was fascinating to read about his exploits in our area of the country. He has been attributed to have been the man who actually killed Custer at the Little Big Horn. He lived to be 98 years old (died in 1947) and, from what I have read, he was an honest man and brave and highly respected by Natives and whites. I expressly liked a quote of his: "A man that lies is a coward." I think it has some application to out present times. If you have never read this book, I highly recommend it. I think you'd like it. (It makes mention of the small pox epidemic, also).
By the way, I only made mention of the Illinois Chief Chicagou because it was mentioned in my current reading and I just supposed that it was probably the source of the city's name, and I don't really think that the Chicago city name will or should be changed. Thanks for the info you shared about the "onions" source for the name.
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Post by hsbob on Jul 13, 2020 18:33:54 GMT -6
Navigating that river was a dark day for what was a substantial population with substantial lands......did those white folks bring the small pox laced blankets on that trip or a later one? Reservations all across the country have such chemical dependency problems and a health care system that's basically MIA among other important issues,I doubt team names are high on the priority list and let me ask you this.......would the response be the same fire hoses and german shepherds we saw at Standing Rock if they did take issue with team names? "Moving to rename the city" Really? Another NON-Native just having a little fun with an issue that he has zero concern for? MY city's name originates from a Native term for the pungent onions that grew along the tributaries to the Chicago river as far as Chicago public schools curriculum was concerned. One of the French invaders changed it to it's current form. www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/07/how-chicago-got-its-name/Native Americans have every right to name their teams after their own heritage.......non natives should name their teams after their own too. After EIGHTY THREE disgusting years the NFL conglomerate in DC will rebrand itself soon while folks on the 'Res' many of which living on the edge of survival due in part to it's stereotype will hardly notice. Another one the good guys lost...... www.history.com/news/remembering-the-wounded-knee-massacreThere's a few good books about it too. Bob, I certainly didn't intend to give the impression that I'm just "another NON-Native having fun with an issue he has zero concern for." I have lived most of my life in North Dakota, except for 4 years of active duty in the Air Force (69-73). Growing up, my best friend was 1/2 Italian and 1/2 Apache. He passed away in the mid-ninties, and I still often remember the great times we had together. I didn't even think about his ancestory.
You have been (and still are) one of my favorite posters here, and from reading your posts regarding the Blackhawk name and your response to my post above, I know that the topic of the Native Americans is something you hold strongly to. But, I take great exception to you labeling me as a non-caring person as far as Native Americans are concerned. You don't know me, other than on this site.
I spent most of my working life in education and have had dealings with many Natives throughout my career. I understand their plight on the reservations and the breakdown of their family groups, often due to the chemical abuse that is so prevalent. But just like any ethnic group, there are good and bad people.
I know people who had some of their ancestors killed at Wounded Knee, Sand Creek, and even the Little Big Horn. I have always been greatly interested in the history of the US plains and the people who inhabit the area (both before and now). I recently finished reading a book ("Warpath") that was first published in the 1930's. It was a collection of interviews with a Chief White Bull. It was fascinating to read about his exploits in our area of the country. He has been attributed to have been the man who actually killed Custer at the Little Big Horn. He lived to be 98 years old (died in 1947) and, from what I have read, he was an honest man and brave and highly respected by Natives and whites. I expressly liked a quote of his: "A man that lies is a coward." I think it has some application to out present times. If you have never read this book, I highly recommend it. I think you'd like it. (It makes mention of the small pox epidemic, also).
By the way, I only made mention of the Illinois Chief Chicagou because it was mentioned in my current reading and I just supposed that it was probably the source of the city's name, and I don't really think that the Chicago city name will or should be changed. Thanks for the info you shared about the "onions" source for the name.
I assumed you weren't serious about changing the city's name which means you are making light of the issue......or were you serious? I referred to you as a NON-native and if I'm wrong I apologize. I didn't refer to you as a non caring person but I did say I thought you had zero concern for this particular issue and how Native Americans feel due to your defense of the team names being discussed. I appreciate you as a fellow member very much also and I'm just stating my point of view as are you. |
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Post by hawks27 on Jul 13, 2020 20:43:57 GMT -6
Bob, I certainly didn't intend to give the impression that I'm just "another NON-Native having fun with an issue he has zero concern for." I have lived most of my life in North Dakota, except for 4 years of active duty in the Air Force (69-73). Growing up, my best friend was 1/2 Italian and 1/2 Apache. He passed away in the mid-ninties, and I still often remember the great times we had together. I didn't even think about his ancestory.
You have been (and still are) one of my favorite posters here, and from reading your posts regarding the Blackhawk name and your response to my post above, I know that the topic of the Native Americans is something you hold strongly to. But, I take great exception to you labeling me as a non-caring person as far as Native Americans are concerned. You don't know me, other than on this site.
I spent most of my working life in education and have had dealings with many Natives throughout my career. I understand their plight on the reservations and the breakdown of their family groups, often due to the chemical abuse that is so prevalent. But just like any ethnic group, there are good and bad people.
I know people who had some of their ancestors killed at Wounded Knee, Sand Creek, and even the Little Big Horn. I have always been greatly interested in the history of the US plains and the people who inhabit the area (both before and now). I recently finished reading a book ("Warpath") that was first published in the 1930's. It was a collection of interviews with a Chief White Bull. It was fascinating to read about his exploits in our area of the country. He has been attributed to have been the man who actually killed Custer at the Little Big Horn. He lived to be 98 years old (died in 1947) and, from what I have read, he was an honest man and brave and highly respected by Natives and whites. I expressly liked a quote of his: "A man that lies is a coward." I think it has some application to out present times. If you have never read this book, I highly recommend it. I think you'd like it. (It makes mention of the small pox epidemic, also).
By the way, I only made mention of the Illinois Chief Chicagou because it was mentioned in my current reading and I just supposed that it was probably the source of the city's name, and I don't really think that the Chicago city name will or should be changed. Thanks for the info you shared about the "onions" source for the name.
I assumed you weren't serious about changing the city's name which means you are making light of the issue......or were you serious? I referred to you as a NON-native and if I'm wrong I apologize. I didn't refer to you as a non caring person but I did say I thought you had zero concern for this particular issue and how Native Americans feel due to your defense of the team names being discussed. I appreciate you as a fellow member very much also and I'm just stating my point of view as are you. Hey Bob, I was incorrect in my stating you thought I was an uncaring person, and I apologize for my misinterpretation of what you said. As far as being a Native, I am of Scandinavian descent and, as I stated earlier have been a North Dakotan for most of my 73+ years. My mention of the local reservation towns that had various names relating to their ancestry was not made to defend it or object to it. I was just stating facts.
Let's hope that the Blackhawks issue can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. It would be a shame to put aside such a beautiful emblem and name, but that's me, a white guy saying it.
As a side note: When the issue of the the University of North Dakota's "Fighting Sioux" name for their sports teams was up for debate, something curious happened. Of the two main Sioux reservations in the state, one (The Spirit Lake) held a vote and was ok with the use of the name. The Standing Rock group never did put it to a vote, so the whole issue was sunk and the teams are now called the "Fighting Hawks." Maybe the Chicago team will look to something like that if they end up having to change the name?
I don't want to belabor this issue, so I will try to stay on the topic of Blackhawks' hockey in the future.
PS: I hope you do get to read the book ("Warpath" by Stanley Vestal). It's a fantastic read and when the book was finally completed, Chief White Bull was very pleased with it. My next book will be the one this author wrote about Sitting Bull (who was White Bull's uncle).
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 13, 2020 21:11:45 GMT -6
I don't want to belabor this issue, so I will try to stay on the topic of Blackhawks' hockey in the future.
i think it's well on topic. and it's a big deal whatever side of the fence you're on. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 13, 2020 22:02:57 GMT -6
I don't want to belabor this issue, so I will try to stay on the topic of Blackhawks' hockey in the future.
i think it's well on topic. and it's a big deal whatever side of the fence you're on. This is well off topic. But I just got an email from Vadar saying he was banned for some reason. Can we figure that one out? Not sure why that happened? Just checking to see if you could look into it for our good man!!! |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 13, 2020 22:10:24 GMT -6
i think it's well on topic. and it's a big deal whatever side of the fence you're on. This is well off topic. But I just got an email from Vadar saying he was banned for some reason. Can we figure that one out? Not sure why that happened? Just checking to see if you could look into it for our good man!!! my god.....t-man put me in charge while he deals with a medical issue. i bet i've done something wrong here. i will try and see what it was i effed up. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 13, 2020 22:22:25 GMT -6
i think it's well on topic. and it's a big deal whatever side of the fence you're on. This is well off topic. But I just got an email from Vadar saying he was banned for some reason. Can we figure that one out? Not sure why that happened? Just checking to see if you could look into it for our good man!!! i will send a message to t-man but i can't see here where he's banned but i've undoubtedly done something stupid, just can't see yet what it was.... tell vadar to hang in there... |
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Post by jimakablkhwks918 on Jul 14, 2020 8:18:30 GMT -6
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 14, 2020 8:46:19 GMT -6
i think it's well on topic. and it's a big deal whatever side of the fence you're on. This is well off topic. But I just got an email from Vadar saying he was banned for some reason. Can we figure that one out? Not sure why that happened? Just checking to see if you could look into it for our good man!!! I sent vadarx an email to see what message he is getting. I don't see any ban set on him or his IP. If it was GT's fault well then....  |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 14, 2020 9:24:44 GMT -6
I assumed you weren't serious about changing the city's name which means you are making light of the issue......or were you serious? I referred to you as a NON-native and if I'm wrong I apologize. I didn't refer to you as a non caring person but I did say I thought you had zero concern for this particular issue and how Native Americans feel due to your defense of the team names being discussed. I appreciate you as a fellow member very much also and I'm just stating my point of view as are you. Hey Bob, I was incorrect in my stating you thought I was an uncaring person, and I apologize for my misinterpretation of what you said. As far as being a Native, I am of Scandinavian descent and, as I stated earlier have been a North Dakotan for most of my 73+ years. My mention of the local reservation towns that had various names relating to their ancestry was not made to defend it or object to it. I was just stating facts.
Let's hope that the Blackhawks issue can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. It would be a shame to put aside such a beautiful emblem and name, but that's me, a white guy saying it.
As a side note: When the issue of the the University of North Dakota's "Fighting Sioux" name for their sports teams was up for debate, something curious happened. Of the two main Sioux reservations in the state, one (The Spirit Lake) held a vote and was ok with the use of the name. The Standing Rock group never did put it to a vote, so the whole issue was sunk and the teams are now called the "Fighting Hawks." Maybe the Chicago team will look to something like that if they end up having to change the name?
I don't want to belabor this issue, so I will try to stay on the topic of Blackhawks' hockey in the future.
PS: I hope you do get to read the book ("Warpath" by Stanley Vestal). It's a fantastic read and when the book was finally completed, Chief White Bull was very pleased with it. My next book will be the one this author wrote about Sitting Bull (who was White Bull's uncle).
First off my friend,I apologize for dragging you knee-deep into a debate that we really weren't having to start and I have great respect for your point of view on this issue. I also agree with you and anyone else that considers the Blackhawk logo and history more reverence than disrespect keeping in mind all the while the 'walk a mile in another man's shoes' aspect of it. As long as no one names a team the 'Old fat guys' I'm good!LOL! I'll grab a copy of Warpath,thanks for the head's up. |
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Post by hawks27 on Jul 14, 2020 9:53:49 GMT -6
Hey Bob, I was incorrect in my stating you thought I was an uncaring person, and I apologize for my misinterpretation of what you said. As far as being a Native, I am of Scandinavian descent and, as I stated earlier have been a North Dakotan for most of my 73+ years. My mention of the local reservation towns that had various names relating to their ancestry was not made to defend it or object to it. I was just stating facts.
Let's hope that the Blackhawks issue can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. It would be a shame to put aside such a beautiful emblem and name, but that's me, a white guy saying it.
As a side note: When the issue of the the University of North Dakota's "Fighting Sioux" name for their sports teams was up for debate, something curious happened. Of the two main Sioux reservations in the state, one (The Spirit Lake) held a vote and was ok with the use of the name. The Standing Rock group never did put it to a vote, so the whole issue was sunk and the teams are now called the "Fighting Hawks." Maybe the Chicago team will look to something like that if they end up having to change the name?
I don't want to belabor this issue, so I will try to stay on the topic of Blackhawks' hockey in the future.
PS: I hope you do get to read the book ("Warpath" by Stanley Vestal). It's a fantastic read and when the book was finally completed, Chief White Bull was very pleased with it. My next book will be the one this author wrote about Sitting Bull (who was White Bull's uncle).
First off my friend,I apologize for dragging you knee-deep into a debate that we really weren't having to start and I have great respect for your point of view on this issue. I also agree with you and anyone else that considers the Blackhawk logo and history more reverence than disrespect keeping in mind all the while the 'walk a mile in another man's shoes' aspect of it. As long as no one names a team the 'Old fat guys' I'm good!LOL! I'll grab a copy of Warpath,thanks for the head's up. Bob, If they do start that team up ("Old Fat Guys"), you and I may end up being linemates!
Enjoy the reading.
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 14, 2020 10:58:34 GMT -6
I grew up in Nothern Alberta, Fort McMurray 21yrs, and there's 2 reserves close by and I knew a lot of natives, I've also lived in Edmonton for almost 20yrs and there is lots of natives here as well. Unfortunately a lot of them fit the stereotype of being alcoholics, abusive, and even homeless, but many generations of being forced into schools to conform will do that.
Some of my best friends and old hockey teammates are native and great people and I don't know one native who's offended by the Blackhawks name and logo.
And I'm not 100% native but my great great grandfather was Chief Mattie Mitchell, I'm very proud of my native heritage and I love the Hawks logo and name.
I'm glad Chicago made that statement and they aren't changing their name/logo. As for the Redskins, yeah that's offensive and I haven't met a native who likes it.
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 14, 2020 11:20:38 GMT -6
I grew up in Nothern Alberta, Fort McMurray 21yrs, and there's 2 reserves close by and I knew a lot of natives, I've also lived in Edmonton for almost 20yrs and there is lots of natives here as well. Unfortunately a lot of them fit the stereotype of being alcoholics, abusive, and even homeless, but many generations of being forced into schools to conform will do that. Some of my best friends and old hockey teammates are native and great people and I don't know one native who's offended by the Blackhawks name and logo. And I'm not 100% native but my great great grandfather was Chief Matty Mitchell, I'm very proud of my native heritage and I love the Hawks logo and name. I'm glad Chicago made that statement and they aren't changing their name/logo. As for the Redskins, yeah that's offensive and I haven't met a native who likes it. Rocky took care of this in '06 after Bill died and had meetings with the Sauk tribe over this issue and the Sauk tribe was in favor of the Black Hawks keeping the name and symbol of their greatest warrior. Also the Navajo in New mexico polled 9 of 10 loved the Redskins logo, but too many white liberals have to speak for everyone. |
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