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Post by ebonyraptor on Jan 12, 2021 8:58:28 GMT -6
JC extended until 2022/23. we shall see. i hope he has succeeds. I like the extension because it takes the lame duck tag off him which is good as far as having the players buy into the plan – no equivocation – the plan is youth movement and the coach is Colliton, hop on board or move on (looking at you Keith, Seabrook, Toews).
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Post by jimakablkhwks918 on Jan 12, 2021 10:04:24 GMT -6
Not a surprise. I won't ever wish for the Hawks to fail. That said, this is Stan's baby 100% now...no more McDonough's and Quenneville's in the way...he has power over a team that few in professional sports have.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 12:39:37 GMT -6
JC extended until 2022/23. we shall see. i hope he has succeeds. I think we all hope he succeeds...but I'm not getting that vibe. I think his successes in "development" are more like the players just being that good (like Koob's 2020 and Debrincat's 2019 campaign). We'll have to see though. Is he a good development coach 1st or is he a bowman cleft-presser 1st? No, I for one hope this fails miserably.
Go Panthers, Go Q
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Post by jacksalmon on Jan 12, 2021 12:46:17 GMT -6
I hope Colliton gets a half hour extension. I’m not sure he’s even worth that. Tough times ahead my friends!!! Hey, T, usually you are pretty thorough with your comments. But, with this post, you fell short of the standards you set for yourself. So, just when would you start that half hour extension? On the more serious side, while I tend to agree with you, for me, it is hard to really judge JC, given the quality of the players he has had. The team under him has always been lacking in some area or more than one. Guys like you who know the game much better than I do might see things that let you know he has deficiencies as a coach. Yet, despite that, my gut tells me that he cannot be as good a coach as some of the older coaches that were/are available could have been. However, now, he is being asked to coach a team that is even more lacking that his previous teams. As you said, tough times ahead.
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Post by jacksalmon on Jan 12, 2021 12:53:40 GMT -6
There's not a bone in my body that WANTS to dislike the young HC and to be honest I don't but I do hear the same doublespeak in this interview that I heard from the GM...... www.nbcsports.com/chicago/blackhawks/qa-blackhawks-jeremy-colliton-rebuilding-core-four-meeting-goaltendingHe professes that "he doesn't want to be a bubble team" or a "bottom half team" but says the core wanting to win now is "short sighted",I agree that being a bubble team is no man's land but it'll take a few years of being less than that to get the proper picks required for a successful rebuild. There seems to be a denial that this team will have to be real bad before it has the chance to be real good again and you'll never be REAL bad with guys like Kane,Toews and Keith leading the way and they do lead the way still. Shouldn't Kane and Toews strive for great seasons with their salaries and past accomplishments and will great seasons from the two always keep the team around that .500,no man's land level? It seems like management will get their cake and eat it too with the cover of a rebuild for a few years to come but a true rebuilding team would realize asking one or more of the core to waive is a necessity.......but the liquor guys are still worried about "who'll drink our beer" like the curmudgeons of the past were. Is it disingenuous to keep Kane and Toews just to sell tickets when the team can no longer win WITH them? Hey, Bob, your last question is one I have asked several times here as it pretty obvious that this team cannot climb out of .500 land even with great play from Toews, Kane and Keith. So, there is no reason to keep them around just to sell tickets or t-shirts while the team continues to deteriorate. The idea that they can be serious contenders with Toews, Kane and Keith leading the way with Moe, Larry and Curly following is over, kaput and done. The experiment has run its course and has only proven that they cannot be serious contenders with that lineup. It is truly time to move on and start all over again. This means that Toews, Kane and Keith need to be traded away for their highest value and suffer a decline in ticket/t-shirt sales. Speaking of no man's land, in a way, ignoring the fact they get paid to perform, it must be hard emotionally for Toews, Kane and Keith to play while knowing that their efforts will lead to nothing except finishing a season and moving onto another with nothing to show for the last one. This is especially true after experiencing the success they had early in the first half of the last decade.
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Post by jacksalmon on Jan 12, 2021 13:00:17 GMT -6
Toews, Kane and Keith are in the same positions as roofers on a new home build where the foundation is sinking into the mud at a rate that is visible. Who would give a damn about making sure the shingles align properly? If I were them, I would want to get off the roof and go on to the next job where my work has some change of having some meaning. They were not given contracts to be on ice assistant coaches.
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Post by jacksalmon on Jan 12, 2021 13:15:58 GMT -6
JC may be good at developing young players, but when those players do not have the potential to be superstars, their development can only go so far. It may be that JC can put together a team of young players who play pretty well as a team, but he has no one who has the potential to be a superstar, ala Toews, Kane and Keith, or in a more recent example of what I am writing about----McDavid. Most of the recent Cup winners, while having overall great team efforts, at least had one, or two, or three superstars recognized as being much better than the average player. When Toews, Kane and Keith are gone, who will be the superstars for the Hawks? I don't think that any player currently on the roster will ever be a superstar ala Toews, Kane, Crosby, Doughty, etc. Personally, I just don't think the Hawks will ever win a Cup again without those superstars. Look back to their 1960 cup win-----they had Hull and Mikita. So, JC can develop his young players to the best of their abilities and then some, but it ain't gonna be good enough, in my limited, short-sighted opinion.
They are going to have to trade Toews, Kane and Keith for young players who at least have the potential to be as good as those three were/are so they will have some potential superstars on their future teams. If they don't, they won't win Cups.
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Post by LordKOTL on Jan 12, 2021 13:21:43 GMT -6
Toews, Kane and Keith are in the same positions as roofers on a new home build where the foundation is sinking into the mud at a rate that is visible. Who would give a damn about making sure the shingles align properly? If I were them, I would want to get off the roof and go on to the next job where my work has some change of having some meaning. They were not given contracts to be on ice assistant coaches. Maybe not...but on the other hand they may be riding the roof down to ground level to step off of said roof gracefully after the it is fully apparent that the structural engineer and the geotech screwed the pooch in trying to reinforce the structure as opposed to change the plans for the actual conditions. After all, if this indeed has been a rebuild for awhile, Bowman's moves have contradicted that.
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Post by LordKOTL on Jan 12, 2021 13:24:13 GMT -6
I think we all hope he succeeds...but I'm not getting that vibe. I think his successes in "development" are more like the players just being that good (like Koob's 2020 and Debrincat's 2019 campaign). We'll have to see though. Is he a good development coach 1st or is he a bowman cleft-presser 1st? No, I for one hope this fails miserably.
Go Panthers, Go Q
Fair enough...but let's not pretend Q would have done much better. After all Q was barely able to keep them at the wildcard line with Crawford carrying the team's carcass in his last full season...and once Crawford went down the team was bottom-3 in the league. I think coaching is less of an issue than the GM.
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Post by jacksalmon on Jan 12, 2021 16:02:34 GMT -6
Toews, Kane and Keith are in the same positions as roofers on a new home build where the foundation is sinking into the mud at a rate that is visible. Who would give a damn about making sure the shingles align properly? If I were them, I would want to get off the roof and go on to the next job where my work has some change of having some meaning. They were not given contracts to be on ice assistant coaches. Maybe not...but on the other hand they may be riding the roof down to ground level to step off of said roof gracefully after the it is fully apparent that the structural engineer and the geotech screwed the pooch in trying to reinforce the structure as opposed to change the plans for the actual conditions. After all, if this indeed has been a rebuild for awhile, Bowman's moves have contradicted that. But, if the team lets them ride the roof down to ground level and step off, they will be gone without any return to the team. So, now is the time to trade them since they won't be providing any revenue from ticket or t-shirt sales while they are up on the roof before it collapses beneath them. I saw an article yesterday in which Bettman said that collectively the league's teams will be losing billions of dollars this season. That certainly results from the loss of ticket and merchandise sales. Bettman said that if they merely cancelled the season, the losses would not occur. The season was only taking place to save the face of hockey and continue fan interest in the sport and the quest for the Cup. Thus, the demand for Toews and Kane may be somewhat stifled by the lack of near term monetary return that would follow from having more fans show up to see them play or lead a playoff charge with some other contending team. But, since the Hawks will not be getting any monetary return from continuing to put them on the ice, in the near or long term, it is a really good time to trade them off and secure the needed youngsters for a successful rebuild. Any team taking Toews/Kane/Keith now would have to be doing it merely for the chance to win a Cup this year without monetary return. However, they may get monetary return if this virus slacks off to allow an in person season for 21-22. It would be a gamble for any owner to take them now, which may keep the interest somewhat decreased from what it would otherwise be.
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Post by gigecj on Jan 12, 2021 16:12:00 GMT -6
Colliton extended?
In the words of my young adolescent students:
"Wait...what?"
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 17:55:16 GMT -6
No, I for one hope this fails miserably.
Go Panthers, Go Q
Fair enough...but let's not pretend Q would have done much better. After all Q was barely able to keep them at the wildcard line with Crawford carrying the team's carcass in his last full season...and once Crawford went down the team was bottom-3 in the league. I think coaching is less of an issue than the GM. I said at the time of the firing I was OK with Q being let go, but not that Bowman got to continue. Bowman put together the crap that Q had to work with, and between the 2 Q is the 2nd winningest coach in NHL history, and Bowman only has a dad who had a legacy. Now, as far as I'm concerned, anyone brought in by Bowman is someone I won't support. So Colliton is in those cross-hairs, and I don't care what kind of roster he has, job he does, etc. I'll back the Hawks again when Bowman is gone, which may not be in my lifetime. That's what makes me so angry about all of this. I'm seeing a replay of the Bill Wirtz/Bob Pulford era, where promises were made every year and nothing ever got done, and in most cases the teams kept getting worse. They relied on a few quality players to try and bring in the fans, but never realistically had what it took to build championship caliber teams. That's Bowman, the new Pulford, while daddy's boy Rocky is the new Bill Wirtz. The only difference is I don't remember Pulford ever backstabbing his way to the top.....he was just anointed the savior by $Bill
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Post by hawks27 on Jan 12, 2021 18:32:18 GMT -6
I just have this to say: I've thought a lot about the current season and the Black Hawks situation. I guess I'll just have to be happy that I was able to see them win 3 Cups in the past decade (and I was listening on the radio when they won in 1961), so that is a lot more than any fan for another team can say about the recent past.
I cannot cut myself loose from being a Hawks' fan, having gone through the many trying years since '61. Since I'm 74, I don't know how many more seasons I may have to watch and follow the Hawks, but I guess I will just have to temper my expectations a lot so I don't go and "smash the tv," etc.
I have to be realistic and know that the near future of the Hawks is not looking too good. I don't believe the present coach is the answer to the Hawks' needs, but I hope that I am wrong and wish him and the team the best.
I'll also want to add that the fact that my wife contracted the covid 19 in October and finally completed her rehab, having been on oxygen until a couple of weeks ago, I have put the performance of sports teams on a lower level of importance.
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Post by galaxytrash on Jan 12, 2021 18:44:40 GMT -6
I just have this to say: I've thought a lot about the current season and the Black Hawks situation. I guess I'll just have to be happy that I was able to see them win 3 Cups in the past decade (and I was listening on the radio when they won in 1961), so that is a lot more than any fan for another team can say about the recent past. I cannot cut myself loose from being a Hawks' fan, having gone through the many trying years since '61. Since I'm 74, I don't know how many more seasons I may have to watch and follow the Hawks, but I guess I will just have to temper my expectations a lot so I don't go and "smash the tv," etc. I have to be realistic and know that the near future of the Hawks is not looking too good. I don't believe the present coach is the answer to the Hawks' needs, but I hope that I am wrong and wish him and the team the best. I'll also want to add that the fact that my wife contracted the covid 19 in October and finally completed her rehab, having been on oxygen until a couple of weeks ago, I have put the performance of sports teams on a lower level of importance. that'd do it alright. good luck to your missus going forward, and good luck to the rest of us who want to see a good on ice product.
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Post by hawks27 on Jan 12, 2021 18:49:09 GMT -6
I just have this to say: I've thought a lot about the current season and the Black Hawks situation. I guess I'll just have to be happy that I was able to see them win 3 Cups in the past decade (and I was listening on the radio when they won in 1961), so that is a lot more than any fan for another team can say about the recent past. I cannot cut myself loose from being a Hawks' fan, having gone through the many trying years since '61. Since I'm 74, I don't know how many more seasons I may have to watch and follow the Hawks, but I guess I will just have to temper my expectations a lot so I don't go and "smash the tv," etc. I have to be realistic and know that the near future of the Hawks is not looking too good. I don't believe the present coach is the answer to the Hawks' needs, but I hope that I am wrong and wish him and the team the best. I'll also want to add that the fact that my wife contracted the covid 19 in October and finally completed her rehab, having been on oxygen until a couple of weeks ago, I have put the performance of sports teams on a lower level of importance. that'd do it alright. good luck to your missus going forward, and good luck to the rest of us who want to see a good on ice product. Thanks, GT. I still don't know how I didn't get it too. Just very happy I didn't.
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Post by vadarx on Jan 12, 2021 19:58:21 GMT -6
JC extended until 2022/23. we shall see. i hope he has succeeds. me too
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Post by vadarx on Jan 12, 2021 20:07:48 GMT -6
JC extended until 2022/23. we shall see. i hope he has succeeds. I like the extension because it takes the lame duck tag off him which is good as far as having the players buy into the plan – no equivocation – the plan is youth movement and the coach is Colliton, hop on board or move on (looking at you Keith, Seabrook, Toews). Keith already came out saying he was good with it. I believe Toews said the same after "the meeting". I dunno wtf is going on with Seabs. I can't believe he isn't ready yet. seems like it can't be positive. I have little doubt he would ever be a poor teammate, though. www.nbcsports.com/chicago/blackhawks/blackhawks-duncan-keith-backs-youth-movement-you-need-young-guys
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Post by gigecj on Jan 12, 2021 21:35:22 GMT -6
I just have this to say: I've thought a lot about the current season and the Black Hawks situation. I guess I'll just have to be happy that I was able to see them win 3 Cups in the past decade (and I was listening on the radio when they won in 1961), so that is a lot more than any fan for another team can say about the recent past. I cannot cut myself loose from being a Hawks' fan, having gone through the many trying years since '61. Since I'm 74, I don't know how many more seasons I may have to watch and follow the Hawks, but I guess I will just have to temper my expectations a lot so I don't go and "smash the tv," etc. I have to be realistic and know that the near future of the Hawks is not looking too good. I don't believe the present coach is the answer to the Hawks' needs, but I hope that I am wrong and wish him and the team the best. I'll also want to add that the fact that my wife contracted the covid 19 in October and finally completed her rehab, having been on oxygen until a couple of weeks ago, I have put the performance of sports teams on a lower level of importance. I am so sorry you and your wife have had to deal with that. It's always a "reality" check with sports and things like that, isn't it? My wife's health (not Covid-related, but serious stuff) over the years has helped me to see reality more and more. My prayers are with you! GIg
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 0:39:59 GMT -6
this franchise has become a circus and the clowns are running it
Stan doesn't deserve his promotion, Colliton doesn't deserve his extension and yet here we are
I can't believe I am this angry and upset with this franchise, every single thing they do is awful at this point
and while I don't want to go "there" and be against the team there is a strong part of me that wants them to lose a lot so both this clown and blowman get fired ASAP
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Post by jaty84 on Jan 13, 2021 1:31:44 GMT -6
I personally don't get it. Where to hurry with the extension prior to this season? Organization could have waited till season's end. Still many veterans on the team and the relations can turn in any unpredictable way and you'll need a change of culture within the room. Besides, I don't think other clubs will be standing in the cue to hire JC after this season.
Other thing is if the coach together with the GM have set a long term plan which needs to be put in place without distortions. However, current situation does not resemble a long term thorough plan...
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Post by hsbob on Jan 13, 2021 9:29:56 GMT -6
No, I for one hope this fails miserably.
Go Panthers, Go Q
Fair enough...but let's not pretend Q would have done much better. After all Q was barely able to keep them at the wildcard line with Crawford carrying the team's carcass in his last full season...and once Crawford went down the team was bottom-3 in the league. I think coaching is less of an issue than the GM. I thought the Hawks were in a spot when CC went down mid-way through that season but I could be wrong........I'm not. When Crawford went down the team was left with an embarrassing array of useless goaltenders..........how much better should that team have finished with those goaltenders? Q's a proven developer of young talent who would have been a much better choice for a young team.
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Post by hsbob on Jan 13, 2021 9:38:25 GMT -6
I just have this to say: I've thought a lot about the current season and the Black Hawks situation. I guess I'll just have to be happy that I was able to see them win 3 Cups in the past decade (and I was listening on the radio when they won in 1961), so that is a lot more than any fan for another team can say about the recent past. I cannot cut myself loose from being a Hawks' fan, having gone through the many trying years since '61. Since I'm 74, I don't know how many more seasons I may have to watch and follow the Hawks, but I guess I will just have to temper my expectations a lot so I don't go and "smash the tv," etc. I have to be realistic and know that the near future of the Hawks is not looking too good. I don't believe the present coach is the answer to the Hawks' needs, but I hope that I am wrong and wish him and the team the best. I'll also want to add that the fact that my wife contracted the covid 19 in October and finally completed her rehab, having been on oxygen until a couple of weeks ago, I have put the performance of sports teams on a lower level of importance. God bless you and your family and have a happy and healthy 2021!
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Post by hsbob on Jan 13, 2021 9:48:39 GMT -6
I like the extension because it takes the lame duck tag off him which is good as far as having the players buy into the plan – no equivocation – the plan is youth movement and the coach is Colliton, hop on board or move on (looking at you Keith, Seabrook, Toews). Keith already came out saying he was good with it. I believe Toews said the same after "the meeting". I dunno wtf is going on with Seabs. I can't believe he isn't ready yet. seems like it can't be positive. I have little doubt he would ever be a poor teammate, though. www.nbcsports.com/chicago/blackhawks/blackhawks-duncan-keith-backs-youth-movement-you-need-young-guysKeith and Kane both have issued statements of support for whatever this is,made me throw up in my mouth a bit but I guess it's their job. Toews is going through a serious health situation,it's hard to believe anyone would hold this against him. I dunno WTF is going on with Seabs either but then again I dunno WTF is going on with any team with Brandon F'n Pirri on it's roster. The achievements of the past and the players responsible seem to be nothing more than a bad taste some want to get out of their mouths. I heard Soderberg made it over,he should help the youth movement @35!
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Post by LordKOTL on Jan 13, 2021 12:46:35 GMT -6
Maybe not...but on the other hand they may be riding the roof down to ground level to step off of said roof gracefully after the it is fully apparent that the structural engineer and the geotech screwed the pooch in trying to reinforce the structure as opposed to change the plans for the actual conditions. After all, if this indeed has been a rebuild for awhile, Bowman's moves have contradicted that. But, if the team lets them ride the roof down to ground level and step off, they will be gone without any return to the team. So, now is the time to trade them since they won't be providing any revenue from ticket or t-shirt sales while they are up on the roof before it collapses beneath them. I saw an article yesterday in which Bettman said that collectively the league's teams will be losing billions of dollars this season. That certainly results from the loss of ticket and merchandise sales. Bettman said that if they merely cancelled the season, the losses would not occur. The season was only taking place to save the face of hockey and continue fan interest in the sport and the quest for the Cup. Thus, the demand for Toews and Kane may be somewhat stifled by the lack of near term monetary return that would follow from having more fans show up to see them play or lead a playoff charge with some other contending team. But, since the Hawks will not be getting any monetary return from continuing to put them on the ice, in the near or long term, it is a really good time to trade them off and secure the needed youngsters for a successful rebuild. Any team taking Toews/Kane/Keith now would have to be doing it merely for the chance to win a Cup this year without monetary return. However, they may get monetary return if this virus slacks off to allow an in person season for 21-22. It would be a gamble for any owner to take them now, which may keep the interest somewhat decreased from what it would otherwise be. You're operating under the assumption that Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook don't have any movement clauses on their contracts. They do--full NMC's. If they don't want to be traded, they won't be traded. If they don't want to be exposed to the Seattle expansion, they won't. If they want to stick it to Stan and limit the roster flexibility for him by taking a sizable cap chunk, that's their prerogative. If they want to stay on the 'hawks for whatever reason they are within their rights to do so...whether we like it or not. If they want out, all they have to do is ask. Fair enough...but let's not pretend Q would have done much better. After all Q was barely able to keep them at the wildcard line with Crawford carrying the team's carcass in his last full season...and once Crawford went down the team was bottom-3 in the league. I think coaching is less of an issue than the GM. I said at the time of the firing I was OK with Q being let go, but not that Bowman got to continue. Bowman put together the crap that Q had to work with, and between the 2 Q is the 2nd winningest coach in NHL history, and Bowman only has a dad who had a legacy. Now, as far as I'm concerned, anyone brought in by Bowman is someone I won't support. So Colliton is in those cross-hairs, and I don't care what kind of roster he has, job he does, etc. I'll back the Hawks again when Bowman is gone, which may not be in my lifetime. That's what makes me so angry about all of this. I'm seeing a replay of the Bill Wirtz/Bob Pulford era, where promises were made every year and nothing ever got done, and in most cases the teams kept getting worse. They relied on a few quality players to try and bring in the fans, but never realistically had what it took to build championship caliber teams. That's Bowman, the new Pulford, while daddy's boy Rocky is the new Bill Wirtz. The only difference is I don't remember Pulford ever backstabbing his way to the top.....he was just anointed the savior by $Bill
Honestly, I thought both should have gone after the 2018 fustercluck. I think (i have no proof) that Q lost the room irrespective of his accolades and the Beancounter is the Beancounter. That being said, I'm not going to hate on JC simply because he's a Stan Guy. I'll hate on him for what he does himself. Still, he's on the 'hawks for now at least so I'll want him to do well--whether he does or not.
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Post by LordKOTL on Jan 13, 2021 13:08:52 GMT -6
Fair enough...but let's not pretend Q would have done much better. After all Q was barely able to keep them at the wildcard line with Crawford carrying the team's carcass in his last full season...and once Crawford went down the team was bottom-3 in the league. I think coaching is less of an issue than the GM. I thought the Hawks were in a spot when CC went down mid-way through that season but I could be wrong........I'm not. When Crawford went down the team was left with an embarrassing array of useless goaltenders..........how much better should that team have finished with those goaltenders? Q's a proven developer of young talent who would have been a much better choice for a young team. The were...barely. At the time Crawford went down Toews wasn't playing that well outside of his faceoffs (for whatever reason). Keith was stinking up the joint (for whatever reason), Kane was in offense only mode, etc. That was most certainly not limited to after Crawford went down. Irrespective of the (lack of) talent of the remaining netminders after Crawford went down, If Crawford was posting the best netminding the 'hawks have seen since Tony O's 1972 campaign the question is why wasn't Q getting the rest of the team onboard--which is what he was supposed to be doing as the coach? To wit: I think the the 2018 'hawks had the 2019 versions of Toews and Keith have the 'hawks in a top-3-in-the-central position when Crawford went down, as opposed to barely at the 2nd WC line. If Keith and Toews had unpublished issues and/or were injured...okay. I could see the 'hawks trying to force them into the lineup and into high responsibility roles while Crawford was in überbeast mode. That makes sense, but if that was indeed the case...why did Q continue to run them roughshod *after* Crawford went down? If Toews, Keith, etc. were ailing and the 'hawks had barely AHL netminding why continue to run Keith & Toews hard if there were issues or injuries? Further, if your past assseriton is correct that the players basically said, "Fuck it" after Crawford went down, why did it seem like there was a disconnect between that mentality and Q? Ideally, Q should have started spreading the responsibility to guys who were doing well (like Kempny), or trying out the youth more if there were issues or he was in agreeance that the team was going nowhwere, or if he was still pushing for the win, he should have done his coaching thing and told them to play to win, not play to not get injured. He didn't--or at least it looked like he didn't based on the outcome. The core was still rode hard until they were mathematically out of it. Like I said in my previous post: I think Q just stale--no proof just a guess. It happens. Even Scotty Bowman got stale. After Crawford went down I think everyone didn't think the 'hawks would be better than they were. But I think the 'hawks could have been better when Crawford was up (and if it was not possible for the 'hawks to be better when Crawford was playing they were hiding some serious issues that should have been addressed at the end of 2018 and not at the start of 2021), and the team could have been managed better after Crawford went down. If I'm right and Q just got stale, I don't think retaining Q would have done anything better in the intervening years. That being said, JC certainly hasn't been the answer.
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Post by jacksalmon on Jan 13, 2021 13:17:59 GMT -6
But, if the team lets them ride the roof down to ground level and step off, they will be gone without any return to the team. So, now is the time to trade them since they won't be providing any revenue from ticket or t-shirt sales while they are up on the roof before it collapses beneath them. I saw an article yesterday in which Bettman said that collectively the league's teams will be losing billions of dollars this season. That certainly results from the loss of ticket and merchandise sales. Bettman said that if they merely cancelled the season, the losses would not occur. The season was only taking place to save the face of hockey and continue fan interest in the sport and the quest for the Cup. Thus, the demand for Toews and Kane may be somewhat stifled by the lack of near term monetary return that would follow from having more fans show up to see them play or lead a playoff charge with some other contending team. But, since the Hawks will not be getting any monetary return from continuing to put them on the ice, in the near or long term, it is a really good time to trade them off and secure the needed youngsters for a successful rebuild. Any team taking Toews/Kane/Keith now would have to be doing it merely for the chance to win a Cup this year without monetary return. However, they may get monetary return if this virus slacks off to allow an in person season for 21-22. It would be a gamble for any owner to take them now, which may keep the interest somewhat decreased from what it would otherwise be. You're operating under the assumption that Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook don't have any movement clauses on their contracts. They do--full NMC's. If they don't want to be traded, they won't be traded. If they don't want to be exposed to the Seattle expansion, they won't. If they want to stick it to Stan and limit the roster flexibility for him by taking a sizable cap chunk, that's their prerogative. If they want to stay on the 'hawks for whatever reason they are within their rights to do so...whether we like it or not. If they want out, all they have to do is ask. I said at the time of the firing I was OK with Q being let go, but not that Bowman got to continue. Bowman put together the crap that Q had to work with, and between the 2 Q is the 2nd winningest coach in NHL history, and Bowman only has a dad who had a legacy. Now, as far as I'm concerned, anyone brought in by Bowman is someone I won't support. So Colliton is in those cross-hairs, and I don't care what kind of roster he has, job he does, etc. I'll back the Hawks again when Bowman is gone, which may not be in my lifetime. That's what makes me so angry about all of this. I'm seeing a replay of the Bill Wirtz/Bob Pulford era, where promises were made every year and nothing ever got done, and in most cases the teams kept getting worse. They relied on a few quality players to try and bring in the fans, but never realistically had what it took to build championship caliber teams. That's Bowman, the new Pulford, while daddy's boy Rocky is the new Bill Wirtz. The only difference is I don't remember Pulford ever backstabbing his way to the top.....he was just anointed the savior by $Bill
Honestly, I thought both should have gone after the 2018 fustercluck. I think (i have no proof) that Q lost the room irrespective of his accolades and the Beancounter is the Beancounter. That being said, I'm not going to hate on JC simply because he's a Stan Guy. I'll hate on him for what he does himself. Still, he's on the 'hawks for now at least so I'll want him to do well--whether he does or not. I am aware of their NMC clauses. I am of the assumption that none of the four would want to remain in Chicago to play on garbage teams and waste the remaining years of their hockey potential. I sure would not. But, if they want to remain Hawks and go through the motions of playing like they really care about losing 2 out of every 3 nights, that is their prerogative. I think it is mandatory for Bowman in the team's interest to find places that each of those four would want to play and then work it out for them and the team. The experiment of keeping them around to regain quality is over. It has not worked and will not work. It is time to start over. The magic period is over and gone, so on to the next era. But, as you say, if they want to stick around and spend the next couple years being irrelevant and losing, it is their choice. As I said above, keeping them around to increase revenues is no longer viable with zero fans at games, so do the best for the team and get them landing spots they will enjoy and some good young players for the team.
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Post by hawks27 on Jan 13, 2021 14:01:53 GMT -6
I just have this to say: I've thought a lot about the current season and the Black Hawks situation. I guess I'll just have to be happy that I was able to see them win 3 Cups in the past decade (and I was listening on the radio when they won in 1961), so that is a lot more than any fan for another team can say about the recent past. I cannot cut myself loose from being a Hawks' fan, having gone through the many trying years since '61. Since I'm 74, I don't know how many more seasons I may have to watch and follow the Hawks, but I guess I will just have to temper my expectations a lot so I don't go and "smash the tv," etc. I have to be realistic and know that the near future of the Hawks is not looking too good. I don't believe the present coach is the answer to the Hawks' needs, but I hope that I am wrong and wish him and the team the best. I'll also want to add that the fact that my wife contracted the covid 19 in October and finally completed her rehab, having been on oxygen until a couple of weeks ago, I have put the performance of sports teams on a lower level of importance. I am so sorry you and your wife have had to deal with that. It's always a "reality" check with sports and things like that, isn't it? My wife's health (not Covid-related, but serious stuff) over the years has helped me to see reality more and more. My prayers are with you! GIg Thanks, Gig. My best wishes to you and your family, too.
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Post by hawks27 on Jan 13, 2021 14:03:22 GMT -6
I just have this to say: I've thought a lot about the current season and the Black Hawks situation. I guess I'll just have to be happy that I was able to see them win 3 Cups in the past decade (and I was listening on the radio when they won in 1961), so that is a lot more than any fan for another team can say about the recent past. I cannot cut myself loose from being a Hawks' fan, having gone through the many trying years since '61. Since I'm 74, I don't know how many more seasons I may have to watch and follow the Hawks, but I guess I will just have to temper my expectations a lot so I don't go and "smash the tv," etc. I have to be realistic and know that the near future of the Hawks is not looking too good. I don't believe the present coach is the answer to the Hawks' needs, but I hope that I am wrong and wish him and the team the best. I'll also want to add that the fact that my wife contracted the covid 19 in October and finally completed her rehab, having been on oxygen until a couple of weeks ago, I have put the performance of sports teams on a lower level of importance. God bless you and your family and have a happy and healthy 2021! Thanks, Bob.
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Post by galaxytrash on Jan 13, 2021 20:21:24 GMT -6
I dunno WTF is going on with Seabs either but then again I dunno WTF is going on with any team with Brandon F'n Pirri on it's roster. bob mckenzie said between periods that seabs "tweaked" his back on the first day of camp. idk why the team couldn't release the info.
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Post by vadarx on Jan 13, 2021 22:33:30 GMT -6
I dunno WTF is going on with Seabs either but then again I dunno WTF is going on with any team with Brandon F'n Pirri on it's roster. bob mckenzie said between periods that seabs "tweaked" his back on the first day of camp. idk why the team couldn't release the info. sounds like some boo boo to me.......
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