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Post by nighbor on Nov 17, 2020 22:44:30 GMT -6
Just to chime in for a hot minute here. I highly suggest everyone listen to the interview of Stan with Barstool chief that Vadar posted. Stan said that Boqvist needs protection. So that’s why they got Zadorov. So there’s one partnership. It sounded like Mitchell will make it, but play limited minutes. So I’d look for a vet dman to be moved closer to the deadline so Mitchell can get larger mins. It also sounds like Keith will not be part of the first PP. It sounds like it’s going to be Kane, Dcat, Dach, Boqvist and Kubalik. The 2nd unit will probably be Toews Strome Keith, Mitchell Shaw. Not chipped in stone, but it sounds like Stan wants to give the reigns over to the younger kids and let them live and die with it. So it doesn’t matter who’s gonna win an offensive zone faceoff, or who’s gonna be the muscle on a line, Stan has his plan and he’s gonna see it through. The pp stuff I don’t mind so much, it’ll suck to see Toews at 32 get demoted to 2nd line center. I don’t think he’s there yet or even near. But it is a rebuild so the vets are supposed to be on board. I think the idea this year is to tank, and hide the good players where they won’t make a massive impact. If Stan can get Dach, Dcat and Kubalik a ton of points and the team sucks, it’s a win win for him. His guys are producing and he gets a solid pick again. This is the best case scenario for Stan!!! It is about time Keith cut back on his playing time. It is time to groom others to replace him on the speciality teams.
I doubt very much Toews will become the 2nd line C any time soon. Dach's second year will be hard and stressful enough without him being thrown in over his head. It will not be the first time that Toews has been snubbed for a lesser center and placed on the 2nd PP unit (remember AA 46.1% career average Toews 56.9%).
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Post by hsbob on Nov 18, 2020 11:06:20 GMT -6
No offense taken or anything like that but I am missing your point a bit..... Is it fair to say a "generalized statement" is directed at all? Since I'm part of the whole,I just want to point out that I post my opinion......should I/WE not do this because we're not insiders? None of us ever sat in a GM's chair and that's a fact but should that fact keep us from posting our opinions? Isn't this what happens on message boards? I'M the one who said I speak out of my ass and make proclamations because like the rest of us......I do.....it's a message board. GM's a lot more successful than SB get criticized and critiqued on the inter-net......you see this too,right? Do want to stifle the LITTLE banter we have here or just the criticism of SB? Of course we should post our opinions - that's the purpose of message boards. My "high horse" post was as much a mea culpa as anything else - the point being that although my opinion is based on the information I have - past, present and realistic projection - it is still ignorant because I don't have all the information that the Hawks brain trust has. Acknowledging that doesn't mean I shouldn't participate in a forum designed for expressing opinions - only that sometimes I need to dismount, plant my feet on the ground and check myself. I never pretended to have the same assessment info and analytic tools a professional sports organization has,just my usual un-grounded drivel. |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Nov 18, 2020 13:48:35 GMT -6
Of course we should post our opinions - that's the purpose of message boards. My "high horse" post was as much a mea culpa as anything else - the point being that although my opinion is based on the information I have - past, present and realistic projection - it is still ignorant because I don't have all the information that the Hawks brain trust has. Acknowledging that doesn't mean I shouldn't participate in a forum designed for expressing opinions - only that sometimes I need to dismount, plant my feet on the ground and check myself. I never pretended to have the same assessment info and analytic tools a professional sports organization has,just my usual un-grounded drivel. Again, this wasn't directed at you. It was me admitting that sometimes I take my ungrounded drivel and make it sound like it's easier to be an NHL GM than it is in reality. My assumption is that others (all of us) fall into that trap every so often too. Maybe that assumption was wrong, and if so, then I'm sorry I cast you in the same unfavorable light I cast upon myself.  |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 19, 2020 8:08:34 GMT -6
I never pretended to have the same assessment info and analytic tools a professional sports organization has,just my usual un-grounded drivel. Again, this wasn't directed at you. It was me admitting that sometimes I take my ungrounded drivel and make it sound like it's easier to be an NHL GM than it is in reality. My assumption is that others (all of us) fall into that trap every so often too. Maybe that assumption was wrong, and if so, then I'm sorry I cast you in the same unfavorable light I cast upon myself. Once again,again.......I do not feel slighted in any way and I don't feel I need an apology........not even close. I guess we're just talking in circles a bit and I'm missing a point that you try to explain over and over. I know you're referring to yourself and assuming the rest of us also "fall into a trap" but I don't know what the trap is. Since I'm clearly the SB critic out of the two of us and also part of(all of us),I can only assume that it's I that can make it sound easier to be a GM than it actually is and that might be correct when I think about it. I'm not sure though because I've never been up close and personal with any sports GM but I'm quite sure that more goes into the job than I realize. Since you're the SB supporter in our back and forth,I never thought you made his job sound easier than it is,so,I believe you're casting something here but that's cool cause it's only back and forth. The only question I have for ya is,how much intimate knowledge with the GM's job do I need to scrutinize it? I always offer alternatives when I criticize a move and the alternatives I offer are other players who signed for or were traded for similar assets. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2020 8:42:39 GMT -6
Again, this wasn't directed at you. It was me admitting that sometimes I take my ungrounded drivel and make it sound like it's easier to be an NHL GM than it is in reality. My assumption is that others (all of us) fall into that trap every so often too. Maybe that assumption was wrong, and if so, then I'm sorry I cast you in the same unfavorable light I cast upon myself. Once again,again.......I do not feel slighted in any way and I don't feel I need an apology........not even close. I guess we're just talking in circles a bit and I'm missing a point that you try to explain over and over. I know you're referring to yourself and assuming the rest of us also "fall into a trap" but I don't know what the trap is. Since I'm clearly the SB critic out of the two of us and also part of(all of us),I can only assume that it's I that can make it sound easier to be a GM than it actually is and that might be correct when I think about it. I'm not sure though because I've never been up close and personal with any sports GM but I'm quite sure that more goes into the job than I realize. Since you're the SB supporter in our back and forth,I never thought you made his job sound easier than it is,so,I believe you're casting something here but that's cool cause it's only back and forth. The only question I have for ya is,how much intimate knowledge with the GM's job do I need to scrutinize it? I always offer alternatives when I criticize a move and the alternatives I offer are other players who signed for or were traded for similar assets.  (taking it out of context, aren't I lol) |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 19, 2020 9:01:28 GMT -6
Once again,again.......I do not feel slighted in any way and I don't feel I need an apology........not even close. I guess we're just talking in circles a bit and I'm missing a point that you try to explain over and over. I know you're referring to yourself and assuming the rest of us also "fall into a trap" but I don't know what the trap is. Since I'm clearly the SB critic out of the two of us and also part of(all of us),I can only assume that it's I that can make it sound easier to be a GM than it actually is and that might be correct when I think about it. I'm not sure though because I've never been up close and personal with any sports GM but I'm quite sure that more goes into the job than I realize. Since you're the SB supporter in our back and forth,I never thought you made his job sound easier than it is,so,I believe you're casting something here but that's cool cause it's only back and forth. The only question I have for ya is,how much intimate knowledge with the GM's job do I need to scrutinize it? I always offer alternatives when I criticize a move and the alternatives I offer are other players who signed for or were traded for similar assets. Yeah,you're a real funny guy aren't ya!LOL! I understand a down turn and a resulting rebuild was always on the table after such a great run,what I don't understand how 20M+ in veterans added last year and two more vet forwards added this year after moving Saad and letting Cagguila walk to clear spots enters into anything resembling a rebuild. If goaltending is anywhere close to competent,it'll more than likely result in another mid-pack finish and another mid-round pick and it's not like the team has horded any picks either.......we don't even have our 3rd rounder next year. |
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Post by BigT on Nov 19, 2020 11:29:39 GMT -6
Just to chime in for a hot minute here. I highly suggest everyone listen to the interview of Stan with Barstool chief that Vadar posted. Stan said that Boqvist needs protection. So that’s why they got Zadorov. So there’s one partnership. It sounded like Mitchell will make it, but play limited minutes. So I’d look for a vet dman to be moved closer to the deadline so Mitchell can get larger mins. It also sounds like Keith will not be part of the first PP. It sounds like it’s going to be Kane, Dcat, Dach, Boqvist and Kubalik. The 2nd unit will probably be Toews Strome Keith, Mitchell Shaw. Not chipped in stone, but it sounds like Stan wants to give the reigns over to the younger kids and let them live and die with it. So it doesn’t matter who’s gonna win an offensive zone faceoff, or who’s gonna be the muscle on a line, Stan has his plan and he’s gonna see it through. The pp stuff I don’t mind so much, it’ll suck to see Toews at 32 get demoted to 2nd line center. I don’t think he’s there yet or even near. But it is a rebuild so the vets are supposed to be on board. I think the idea this year is to tank, and hide the good players where they won’t make a massive impact. If Stan can get Dach, Dcat and Kubalik a ton of points and the team sucks, it’s a win win for him. His guys are producing and he gets a solid pick again. This is the best case scenario for Stan!!! It is about time Keith cut back on his playing time. It is time to groom others to replace him on the speciality teams.
I doubt very much Toews will become the 2nd line C any time soon. Dach's second year will be hard and stressful enough without him being thrown in over his head. It will not be the first time that Toews has been snubbed for a lesser center and placed on the 2nd PP unit (remember AA 46.1% career average Toews 56.9%).
If it truly is a rebuild ( I have my doubts), then I have no problem seeing older guys take some time on the bench so you get guys can get some experience. But I sure as hell don’t want things given away. What was done with Sikura was criminal. There were more deserving players than him, and it was a shame he was given top line minutes and got one gawd damn goal in over half a gawd damn season on the top line. I said from the beginning of the Sikura talk, he was not NHL material. For his size, he doesn’t have overly exciting speed. He was slowed up and driven to the perimeter to suffer. I do not want to see this happen again. There was a couple others who got a free ride also. Let’s be realistic here. Dach is the best game bing we have by miles and miles. Boqvist so far looks like he’s not ready or just not good. He may end up being something and we are hoping for that. But I don’t see many people hanging their hats on Boqvist at this point. Dach is our main young kid to look forward too at this point. Not saying no one else is worth a damn, but he’s looking like the real deal here!!! |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Nov 19, 2020 13:38:57 GMT -6
Again, this wasn't directed at you. It was me admitting that sometimes I take my ungrounded drivel and make it sound like it's easier to be an NHL GM than it is in reality. My assumption is that others (all of us) fall into that trap every so often too. Maybe that assumption was wrong, and if so, then I'm sorry I cast you in the same unfavorable light I cast upon myself. Once again,again.......I do not feel slighted in any way and I don't feel I need an apology........not even close. I guess we're just talking in circles a bit and I'm missing a point that you try to explain over and over. I know you're referring to yourself and assuming the rest of us also "fall into a trap" but I don't know what the trap is. Since I'm clearly the SB critic out of the two of us and also part of(all of us),I can only assume that it's I that can make it sound easier to be a GM than it actually is and that might be correct when I think about it. I'm not sure though because I've never been up close and personal with any sports GM but I'm quite sure that more goes into the job than I realize. Since you're the SB supporter in our back and forth,I never thought you made his job sound easier than it is,so,I believe you're casting something here but that's cool cause it's only back and forth. The only question I have for ya is,how much intimate knowledge with the GM's job do I need to scrutinize it? I always offer alternatives when I criticize a move and the alternatives I offer are other players who signed for or were traded for similar assets. I need to apologize for my previous apology ... wait ... now I have to apologize for that apology ... I know - let me offer 2 apologies now to cover the previous apology and this apology and that way I think all the apologies have been properly apologized for. I think. I think there's at least one thing we can agree on - this seems more like some half way measure than an actual rebuild. When making a jump across a divide - you have to give it maximum effort. A tepid effort will ensure you don't make it to the other side. To accomplish an effective rebuild resulting in a Cup contending team requires a ballsy effort - Stan in particular and most corporate entities in general fall more in the cautious/tepid category than the ballsy category. |
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Post by nighbor on Nov 20, 2020 1:58:19 GMT -6
It is about time Keith cut back on his playing time. It is time to groom others to replace him on the speciality teams.
I doubt very much Toews will become the 2nd line C any time soon. Dach's second year will be hard and stressful enough without him being thrown in over his head. It will not be the first time that Toews has been snubbed for a lesser center and placed on the 2nd PP unit (remember AA 46.1% career average Toews 56.9%).
If it truly is a rebuild ( I have my doubts), then I have no problem seeing older guys take some time on the bench so you get guys can get some experience. But I sure as hell don’t want things given away. What was done with Sikura was criminal. There were more deserving players than him, and it was a shame he was given top line minutes and got one gawd damn goal in over half a gawd damn season on the top line. I said from the beginning of the Sikura talk, he was not NHL material. For his size, he doesn’t have overly exciting speed. He was slowed up and driven to the perimeter to suffer. I do not want to see this happen again. There was a couple others who got a free ride also. Let’s be realistic here. Dach is the best game bing we have by miles and miles. Boqvist so far looks like he’s not ready or just not good. He may end up being something and we are hoping for that. But I don’t see many people hanging their hats on Boqvist at this point. Dach is our main young kid to look forward too at this point. Not saying no one else is worth a damn, but he’s looking like the real deal here!!! I hope you are sitting down. We agree on something!!!! Sikura was obviously an AHL player at best. I did not recommend anyone to replace Keith on Special Teams because it should be an open competition with the winner keeping the job as long as he can hold on to it. You know! you snooze! you lose!
I think of all the young players Dach has the highest upside. There are those wanting to compare the rookie seasons of Dach and Toews. This is an unfair comparisons because the years prior Dach played against boys while Toews honed his skills and increased his strength playing against men. Toews also benefitted by playing against NHLers in the WC where he had 2 goals and 5 assists in 9 games. Confidence is a game changer. I was impressed with Dach's maturity. Even though he was a big body he found himself manhandled at times. After the league shutdown Dach immediately sought help from Ian Mack, he did the work and when the season re-started he was bigger stronger and faster. When he turned up at the WJC bubble he was interviewed by TSN when asked what he had been doing he replied working out.
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Post by ebonyraptor on Nov 20, 2020 8:58:20 GMT -6
If it truly is a rebuild ( I have my doubts), then I have no problem seeing older guys take some time on the bench so you get guys can get some experience. But I sure as hell don’t want things given away. What was done with Sikura was criminal. There were more deserving players than him, and it was a shame he was given top line minutes and got one gawd damn goal in over half a gawd damn season on the top line. I said from the beginning of the Sikura talk, he was not NHL material. For his size, he doesn’t have overly exciting speed. He was slowed up and driven to the perimeter to suffer. I do not want to see this happen again. There was a couple others who got a free ride also. Let’s be realistic here. Dach is the best game bing we have by miles and miles. Boqvist so far looks like he’s not ready or just not good. He may end up being something and we are hoping for that. But I don’t see many people hanging their hats on Boqvist at this point. Dach is our main young kid to look forward too at this point. Not saying no one else is worth a damn, but he’s looking like the real deal here!!! I hope you are sitting down. We agree on something!!!! Sikura was obviously an AHL player at best. I did not recommend anyone to replace Keith on Special Teams because it should be an open competition with the winner keeping the job as long as he can hold on to it. You know! you snooze! you lose!
I think of all the young players Dach has the highest upside. There are those wanting to compare the rookie seasons of Dach and Toews. This is an unfair comparisons because the years prior Dach played against boys while Toews honed his skills and increased his strength playing against men. Toews also benefitted by playing against NHLers in the WC where he had 2 goals and 5 assists in 9 games. Confidence is a game changer. I was impressed with Dach's maturity. Even though he was a big body he found himself manhandled at times. After the league shutdown Dach immediately sought help from Ian Mack, he did the work and when the season re-started he was bigger stronger and faster. When he turned up at the WJC bubble he was interviewed by TSN when asked what he had been doing he replied working out.
I agree - Dach didn't have the same level of success in his first NHL season as Toews did - so what? Toews is a future HoF player - Dach can fall short of that and still be a very good player for the Hawks for the next 10+ years. We don't need Dach to be Toews#2, we need him to keep improving to be the best Dach#1. A point you eluded to is that Dach played in the NHL in his D+1 year while Toews played at UND for a year and got to the NHL in his D+2 year - that year can make a big difference in physical maturity. Toews was already very physically mature at 19 whereas Dach still had some "gangly" with his 6'4" body at 18. Dach still has more physical maturity to achieve to grow into his taller and bigger framed body than Toews did at the same age. Dach may never be as good as Toews but he will be a lot better than he's shown so far and that will be all we need him to be. |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 20, 2020 9:06:30 GMT -6
Once again,again.......I do not feel slighted in any way and I don't feel I need an apology........not even close. I guess we're just talking in circles a bit and I'm missing a point that you try to explain over and over. I know you're referring to yourself and assuming the rest of us also "fall into a trap" but I don't know what the trap is. Since I'm clearly the SB critic out of the two of us and also part of(all of us),I can only assume that it's I that can make it sound easier to be a GM than it actually is and that might be correct when I think about it. I'm not sure though because I've never been up close and personal with any sports GM but I'm quite sure that more goes into the job than I realize. Since you're the SB supporter in our back and forth,I never thought you made his job sound easier than it is,so,I believe you're casting something here but that's cool cause it's only back and forth. The only question I have for ya is,how much intimate knowledge with the GM's job do I need to scrutinize it? I always offer alternatives when I criticize a move and the alternatives I offer are other players who signed for or were traded for similar assets. I need to apologize for my previous apology ... wait ... now I have to apologize for that apology ... I know - let me offer 2 apologies now to cover the previous apology and this apology and that way I think all the apologies have been properly apologized for. I think. I think there's at least one thing we can agree on - this seems more like some half way measure than an actual rebuild. When making a jump across a divide - you have to give it maximum effort. A tepid effort will ensure you don't make it to the other side. To accomplish an effective rebuild resulting in a Cup contending team requires a ballsy effort - Stan in particular and most corporate entities in general fall more in the cautious/tepid category than the ballsy category. As much as I critique and criticize SB's individual player moves,I don't blame him for the team's current direction or lack of it. The Wirtz's are NOT interested in moving one of their meal tickets OR a few 20 win seasons in a row in order to get the picks and prospects necessary for a quality rebuild IMO. If this is true and SB is tasked with rebuilding while keeping the super stars and staying competitive all at the same time......this isn't really on him. Maybe NOT putting Jr in charge of the business is good advice for any budding billionaire. |
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Post by BigT on Nov 20, 2020 10:37:19 GMT -6
If it truly is a rebuild ( I have my doubts), then I have no problem seeing older guys take some time on the bench so you get guys can get some experience. But I sure as hell don’t want things given away. What was done with Sikura was criminal. There were more deserving players than him, and it was a shame he was given top line minutes and got one gawd damn goal in over half a gawd damn season on the top line. I said from the beginning of the Sikura talk, he was not NHL material. For his size, he doesn’t have overly exciting speed. He was slowed up and driven to the perimeter to suffer. I do not want to see this happen again. There was a couple others who got a free ride also. Let’s be realistic here. Dach is the best game bing we have by miles and miles. Boqvist so far looks like he’s not ready or just not good. He may end up being something and we are hoping for that. But I don’t see many people hanging their hats on Boqvist at this point. Dach is our main young kid to look forward too at this point. Not saying no one else is worth a damn, but he’s looking like the real deal here!!! I hope you are sitting down. We agree on something!!!! Sikura was obviously an AHL player at best. I did not recommend anyone to replace Keith on Special Teams because it should be an open competition with the winner keeping the job as long as he can hold on to it. You know! you snooze! you lose!
I think of all the young players Dach has the highest upside. There are those wanting to compare the rookie seasons of Dach and Toews. This is an unfair comparisons because the years prior Dach played against boys while Toews honed his skills and increased his strength playing against men. Toews also benefitted by playing against NHLers in the WC where he had 2 goals and 5 assists in 9 games. Confidence is a game changer. I was impressed with Dach's maturity. Even though he was a big body he found himself manhandled at times. After the league shutdown Dach immediately sought help from Ian Mack, he did the work and when the season re-started he was bigger stronger and faster. When he turned up at the WJC bubble he was interviewed by TSN when asked what he had been doing he replied working out.
Agreeing is good....... but for a limited time! Hahahahba. In a rebuild, it would make no sense to lean heavily on vets. Hence why I don’t believe this is a rebuild. This may be a younger roster, no doubt at all. But it’s not a rebuild. Getting the Mark brothers is a testament to that. Even Zadorov is a vet now. Once a kid passes their 3 year entry level, they’re vets in this league. As the average player only plays about 5-7 years, completing 3 is a big task, only the stars of the game stay longer. So the Hawks may be young, but I think that’s why they never actually said “rebuild”. I think they’re done tinkering with the fringe players that are older, and want guys that can play now. Guys that are 23-26. Plus add in a few of our own picks or prospects and they’re hoping for a perfect storm here. It’s possible, but it’s gotta happen quickly. Like in the next year or so to take a shot at it again with our O.C (original core). Cuz if Toews and Kane were done here, that’s 2 massive holes we just don’t have anyone to fill and it’ll push the whole process back 4-5 years. So, I’m still not sold on this retooling process. If the goal is to tank this year and maybe even next, then ok. But without tanking, this whole thing is pointless!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 20, 2020 12:28:08 GMT -6
I hope you are sitting down. We agree on something!!!! Sikura was obviously an AHL player at best. I did not recommend anyone to replace Keith on Special Teams because it should be an open competition with the winner keeping the job as long as he can hold on to it. You know! you snooze! you lose!
I think of all the young players Dach has the highest upside. There are those wanting to compare the rookie seasons of Dach and Toews. This is an unfair comparisons because the years prior Dach played against boys while Toews honed his skills and increased his strength playing against men. Toews also benefitted by playing against NHLers in the WC where he had 2 goals and 5 assists in 9 games. Confidence is a game changer. I was impressed with Dach's maturity. Even though he was a big body he found himself manhandled at times. After the league shutdown Dach immediately sought help from Ian Mack, he did the work and when the season re-started he was bigger stronger and faster. When he turned up at the WJC bubble he was interviewed by TSN when asked what he had been doing he replied working out.
Agreeing is good....... but for a limited time! Hahahahba. In a rebuild, it would make no sense to lean heavily on vets. Hence why I don’t believe this is a rebuild. This may be a younger roster, no doubt at all. But it’s not a rebuild. Getting the Mark brothers is a testament to that. Even Zadorov is a vet now. Once a kid passes their 3 year entry level, they’re vets in this league. As the average player only plays about 5-7 years, completing 3 is a big task, only the stars of the game stay longer. So the Hawks may be young, but I think that’s why they never actually said “rebuild”. I think they’re done tinkering with the fringe players that are older, and want guys that can play now. Guys that are 23-26. Plus add in a few of our own picks or prospects and they’re hoping for a perfect storm here. It’s possible, but it’s gotta happen quickly. Like in the next year or so to take a shot at it again with our O.C (original core). Cuz if Toews and Kane were done here, that’s 2 massive holes we just don’t have anyone to fill and it’ll push the whole process back 4-5 years. So, I’m still not sold on this retooling process. If the goal is to tank this year and maybe even next, then ok. But without tanking, this whole thing is pointless!!! The 'perfect storm' didn't work our very well for George Clooney and Marky Mark did it!LOL! www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9Tdw5nG4dQ |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Nov 20, 2020 12:35:19 GMT -6
I hope you are sitting down. We agree on something!!!! Sikura was obviously an AHL player at best. I did not recommend anyone to replace Keith on Special Teams because it should be an open competition with the winner keeping the job as long as he can hold on to it. You know! you snooze! you lose!
I think of all the young players Dach has the highest upside. There are those wanting to compare the rookie seasons of Dach and Toews. This is an unfair comparisons because the years prior Dach played against boys while Toews honed his skills and increased his strength playing against men. Toews also benefitted by playing against NHLers in the WC where he had 2 goals and 5 assists in 9 games. Confidence is a game changer. I was impressed with Dach's maturity. Even though he was a big body he found himself manhandled at times. After the league shutdown Dach immediately sought help from Ian Mack, he did the work and when the season re-started he was bigger stronger and faster. When he turned up at the WJC bubble he was interviewed by TSN when asked what he had been doing he replied working out.
Agreeing is good....... but for a limited time! Hahahahba. In a rebuild, it would make no sense to lean heavily on vets. Hence why I don’t believe this is a rebuild. This may be a younger roster, no doubt at all. But it’s not a rebuild. Getting the Mark brothers is a testament to that. Even Zadorov is a vet now. Once a kid passes their 3 year entry level, they’re vets in this league. As the average player only plays about 5-7 years, completing 3 is a big task, only the stars of the game stay longer. So the Hawks may be young, but I think that’s why they never actually said “rebuild”. I think they’re done tinkering with the fringe players that are older, and want guys that can play now. Guys that are 23-26. Plus add in a few of our own picks or prospects and they’re hoping for a perfect storm here. It’s possible, but it’s gotta happen quickly. Like in the next year or so to take a shot at it again with our O.C (original core). Cuz if Toews and Kane were done here, that’s 2 massive holes we just don’t have anyone to fill and it’ll push the whole process back 4-5 years. So, I’m still not sold on this retooling process. If the goal is to tank this year and maybe even next, then ok. But without tanking, this whole thing is pointless!!! Yep - exactly. I still think something can be done around a trade of Kane going to Buffalo. We have one salary retention slot left this year so I propose retaining up to 50% of Kane's salary to Buffalo with Dylan Cozens coming back to the Hawks. Include Okposo in the package coming back to the Hawks so his salary offsets the net cost of Kane. Add in draft picks and/or prospects going back and forth as needed. For Buffalo, they get 3 years of Kane at the cost of Okposo but they give up their top-10 draft pick from 2019. The Hawks would get Cozens and without Kane would almost be assured of getting a top draft pick in 2021 and probably 2022. The Hawks can buy out Okposo if they need to down the line but they won't need the cap space for a couple years. Buffalo signed Taylor Hall this offseason and are primed to move into contender status - adding Kane improves their odds considerably. Also, bringing home the hometown superstar would be a marketing bonanza for Buffalo. Sabre #88 jerseys would be jumping off the shelves. If Stan and the organization is serious about doing a rebuild - that's one way to prove it. |
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Post by vadarx on Nov 20, 2020 22:40:28 GMT -6
considering Kane just had a kid with his significant other whom he lives with in Chicago, I'm gonna guess he isn't gonna be too keen on moving anytime soon.
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Post by Tater on Nov 21, 2020 1:08:12 GMT -6
considering Kane just had a kid with his significant other whom he lives with in Chicago, I'm gonna guess he isn't gonna be too keen on moving anytime soon. Maybe to be closer to the grandparents? I doubt it would happen though. He's a huge ticket draw around here and I doubt Rocky/Stanbo would do it. |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Nov 21, 2020 10:56:20 GMT -6
considering Kane just had a kid with his significant other whom he lives with in Chicago, I'm gonna guess he isn't gonna be too keen on moving anytime soon. Maybe to be closer to the grandparents? I doubt it would happen though. He's a huge ticket draw around here and I doubt Rocky/Stanbo would do it. It's OK to daydream, still, in 2020, isn't it? The top line on the 2025 Stanley Cup champion Chicago Blackhawks: Reichal-Dach-Cozens |
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Post by BigT on Nov 21, 2020 11:33:42 GMT -6
Agreeing is good....... but for a limited time! Hahahahba. In a rebuild, it would make no sense to lean heavily on vets. Hence why I don’t believe this is a rebuild. This may be a younger roster, no doubt at all. But it’s not a rebuild. Getting the Mark brothers is a testament to that. Even Zadorov is a vet now. Once a kid passes their 3 year entry level, they’re vets in this league. As the average player only plays about 5-7 years, completing 3 is a big task, only the stars of the game stay longer. So the Hawks may be young, but I think that’s why they never actually said “rebuild”. I think they’re done tinkering with the fringe players that are older, and want guys that can play now. Guys that are 23-26. Plus add in a few of our own picks or prospects and they’re hoping for a perfect storm here. It’s possible, but it’s gotta happen quickly. Like in the next year or so to take a shot at it again with our O.C (original core). Cuz if Toews and Kane were done here, that’s 2 massive holes we just don’t have anyone to fill and it’ll push the whole process back 4-5 years. So, I’m still not sold on this retooling process. If the goal is to tank this year and maybe even next, then ok. But without tanking, this whole thing is pointless!!! Yep - exactly. I still think something can be done around a trade of Kane going to Buffalo. We have one salary retention slot left this year so I propose retaining up to 50% of Kane's salary to Buffalo with Dylan Cozens coming back to the Hawks. Include Okposo in the package coming back to the Hawks so his salary offsets the net cost of Kane. Add in draft picks and/or prospects going back and forth as needed. For Buffalo, they get 3 years of Kane at the cost of Okposo but they give up their top-10 draft pick from 2019. The Hawks would get Cozens and without Kane would almost be assured of getting a top draft pick in 2021 and probably 2022. The Hawks can buy out Okposo if they need to down the line but they won't need the cap space for a couple years. Buffalo signed Taylor Hall this offseason and are primed to move into contender status - adding Kane improves their odds considerably. Also, bringing home the hometown superstar would be a marketing bonanza for Buffalo. Sabre #88 jerseys would be jumping off the shelves. If Stan and the organization is serious about doing a rebuild - that's one way to prove it. To retain salary and also take back a bad contract, they’d have to give us a kings ransom. Like 3 1st round picks, Couzens, Ristolienen and one more prospect. It would be absolutely criminal to retain Kane’s salary and take on Okposo. So the return would have to be good for a 100 point scorer. Not sure Buffalo will like do that, I would. But we’re not getting a game breaker back. They are. And for 3 years!!! |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Nov 21, 2020 12:28:36 GMT -6
Yep - exactly. I still think something can be done around a trade of Kane going to Buffalo. We have one salary retention slot left this year so I propose retaining up to 50% of Kane's salary to Buffalo with Dylan Cozens coming back to the Hawks. Include Okposo in the package coming back to the Hawks so his salary offsets the net cost of Kane. Add in draft picks and/or prospects going back and forth as needed. For Buffalo, they get 3 years of Kane at the cost of Okposo but they give up their top-10 draft pick from 2019. The Hawks would get Cozens and without Kane would almost be assured of getting a top draft pick in 2021 and probably 2022. The Hawks can buy out Okposo if they need to down the line but they won't need the cap space for a couple years. Buffalo signed Taylor Hall this offseason and are primed to move into contender status - adding Kane improves their odds considerably. Also, bringing home the hometown superstar would be a marketing bonanza for Buffalo. Sabre #88 jerseys would be jumping off the shelves. If Stan and the organization is serious about doing a rebuild - that's one way to prove it. To retain salary and also take back a bad contract, they’d have to give us a kings ransom. Like 3 1st round picks, Couzens, Ristolienen and one more prospect. It would be absolutely criminal to retain Kane’s salary and take on Okposo. So the return would have to be good for a 100 point scorer. Not sure Buffalo will like do that, I would. But we’re not getting a game breaker back. They are. And for 3 years!!! I admit I'm not good at trade proposals, at least not when it comes to making it equitable for both teams. My proposal was centered around two things - the main pieces (Kane/Cozens) and salary cap viability (retention/Okposo). All of the other pieces to make it equitable for both teams - I don't know. To me, acquiring a top line prospect like Cozens to be part of the new core a few years down the line is worth giving up Kane for the next 3 years when the team will not be in position to win the Cup, even with him on the team. I may have erred on the side of making it too attractive for Buffalo but I tried to make it attractive enough they would consider it. If additional pieces are required to make it an equitable trade for both team - then add pieces to the trade - but I think it would need to be a lot less added than what you listed. |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 22, 2020 8:57:51 GMT -6
To retain salary and also take back a bad contract, they’d have to give us a kings ransom. Like 3 1st round picks, Couzens, Ristolienen and one more prospect. It would be absolutely criminal to retain Kane’s salary and take on Okposo. So the return would have to be good for a 100 point scorer. Not sure Buffalo will like do that, I would. But we’re not getting a game breaker back. They are. And for 3 years!!! I admit I'm not good at trade proposals, at least not when it comes to making it equitable for both teams. My proposal was centered around two things - the main pieces (Kane/Cozens) and salary cap viability (retention/Okposo). All of the other pieces to make it equitable for both teams - I don't know. To me, acquiring a top line prospect like Cozens to be part of the new core a few years down the line is worth giving up Kane for the next 3 years when the team will not be in position to win the Cup, even with him on the team. I may have erred on the side of making it too attractive for Buffalo but I tried to make it attractive enough they would consider it. If additional pieces are required to make it an equitable trade for both team - then add pieces to the trade - but I think it would need to be a lot less added than what you listed. Just because the Hawks are so bad Kane doesn't help em won't affect his value to other teams or his ability to help those teams. Kane at half price is better than just about any prospect and would require a 1st along with that prospect and Okposo? I see the point of taking his money as far as helping Buffalo's ability to make the move but I'd need a massive bribe to take that deal....at least a 1st and a 2nd. Do you really consider a half priced Kane an even trade for Cozens? And we take Okposo too? Patrick Kane could put any good team over the top and I don't have to daydream to realize that. |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Nov 22, 2020 10:15:39 GMT -6
I admit I'm not good at trade proposals, at least not when it comes to making it equitable for both teams. My proposal was centered around two things - the main pieces (Kane/Cozens) and salary cap viability (retention/Okposo). All of the other pieces to make it equitable for both teams - I don't know. To me, acquiring a top line prospect like Cozens to be part of the new core a few years down the line is worth giving up Kane for the next 3 years when the team will not be in position to win the Cup, even with him on the team. I may have erred on the side of making it too attractive for Buffalo but I tried to make it attractive enough they would consider it. If additional pieces are required to make it an equitable trade for both team - then add pieces to the trade - but I think it would need to be a lot less added than what you listed. Just because the Hawks are so bad Kane doesn't help em won't affect his value to other teams or his ability to help those teams. Kane at half price is better than just about any prospect and would require a 1st along with that prospect and Okposo? I see the point of taking his money as far as helping Buffalo's ability to make the move but I'd need a massive bribe to take that deal....at least a 1st and a 2nd. Do you really consider a half priced Kane an even trade for Cozens? And we take Okposo too? Patrick Kane could put any good team over the top and I don't have to daydream to realize that. At market value? No. But, in terms of what is more beneficial for the future of the Hawks, I think Cozens is a sufficient main piece coming back. I've admitted I'm not good with the secondary pieces of a trade so I didn't bother guessing what would make the trade equitable for both sides. I stuck to the (2) primary pieces - the main players (Kane/Cozens) and Salary Cap viability (salary retention/Okposo). If Buffalo would agree to include additional picks/prospects - great! But in keeping with my aforementioned philosophy to pay whatever it costs to get what I want (within reason) - I would to the deal as I proposed if that's what it took to get the deal done. |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 22, 2020 10:33:44 GMT -6
Just because the Hawks are so bad Kane doesn't help em won't affect his value to other teams or his ability to help those teams. Kane at half price is better than just about any prospect and would require a 1st along with that prospect and Okposo? I see the point of taking his money as far as helping Buffalo's ability to make the move but I'd need a massive bribe to take that deal....at least a 1st and a 2nd. Do you really consider a half priced Kane an even trade for Cozens? And we take Okposo too? Patrick Kane could put any good team over the top and I don't have to daydream to realize that. At market value? No. But, in terms of what is more beneficial for the future of the Hawks, I think Cozens is a sufficient main piece coming back. I've admitted I'm not good with the secondary pieces of a trade so I didn't bother guessing what would make the trade equitable for both sides. I stuck to the (2) primary pieces - the main players (Kane/Cozens) and Salary Cap viability (salary retention/Okposo). If Buffalo would agree to include additional picks/prospects - great! But in keeping with my aforementioned philosophy to pay whatever it costs to get what I want (within reason) - I would to the deal as I proposed if that's what it took to get the deal done. Don't get me wrong er,I'd demand Cozens in return too but an unproven prospect for a half priced potential Hart/Smythe winner who can fill the barn would require much more that Cozens IMO. If Cozens had a solid year or two under his belt,that'd be one thing but we don't even know how and if he can handle the league at this point. Taking Okposo's deal would require another massive haul in return but who knows with SB.......I doubt his tenure here ends well! When you say "pay whatever it costs to get what I want",do you just want Kane gone or do you consider Cozens a can't miss,elite player before he's played a single game? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2020 10:39:50 GMT -6
considering Kane just had a kid with his significant other whom he lives with in Chicago, I'm gonna guess he isn't gonna be too keen on moving anytime soon. Maybe to be closer to the grandparents? I doubt it would happen though. He's a huge ticket draw around here and I doubt Rocky/Stanbo would do it. Considering it likely 2021 will be played to empty arenas I don't think ticket draw will play much of a factor. If you think about it, it might be the best time to move Kane, let the team play a year without him and fans will get to see just what they have to look forward to. Because with or without Kane, this team is in a freefall and the current management team is incapable of stopping it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2020 10:43:26 GMT -6
I admit I'm not good at trade proposals, at least not when it comes to making it equitable for both teams. My proposal was centered around two things - the main pieces (Kane/Cozens) and salary cap viability (retention/Okposo). All of the other pieces to make it equitable for both teams - I don't know. To me, acquiring a top line prospect like Cozens to be part of the new core a few years down the line is worth giving up Kane for the next 3 years when the team will not be in position to win the Cup, even with him on the team. I may have erred on the side of making it too attractive for Buffalo but I tried to make it attractive enough they would consider it. If additional pieces are required to make it an equitable trade for both team - then add pieces to the trade - but I think it would need to be a lot less added than what you listed. Just because the Hawks are so bad Kane doesn't help em won't affect his value to other teams or his ability to help those teams. Kane at half price is better than just about any prospect and would require a 1st along with that prospect and Okposo? I see the point of taking his money as far as helping Buffalo's ability to make the move but I'd need a massive bribe to take that deal....at least a 1st and a 2nd. Do you really consider a half priced Kane an even trade for Cozens? And we take Okposo too? Patrick Kane could put any good team over the top and I don't have to daydream to realize that. Buffalo adding Kane might make them a playoff contender, which means acquiring Buffalo's number 1 pick a low first rounder. So this has to be taken into account in any trade when discussing what the Hawks get back. |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 22, 2020 11:28:19 GMT -6
Just because the Hawks are so bad Kane doesn't help em won't affect his value to other teams or his ability to help those teams. Kane at half price is better than just about any prospect and would require a 1st along with that prospect and Okposo? I see the point of taking his money as far as helping Buffalo's ability to make the move but I'd need a massive bribe to take that deal....at least a 1st and a 2nd. Do you really consider a half priced Kane an even trade for Cozens? And we take Okposo too? Patrick Kane could put any good team over the top and I don't have to daydream to realize that. Buffalo adding Kane might make them a playoff contender, which means acquiring Buffalo's number 1 pick a low first rounder. So this has to be taken into account in any trade when discussing what the Hawks get back. I realize it's the top five picks the team should pursue but even late first rounders help teams.......other teams but I digress. |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Nov 22, 2020 12:33:47 GMT -6
At market value? No. But, in terms of what is more beneficial for the future of the Hawks, I think Cozens is a sufficient main piece coming back. I've admitted I'm not good with the secondary pieces of a trade so I didn't bother guessing what would make the trade equitable for both sides. I stuck to the (2) primary pieces - the main players (Kane/Cozens) and Salary Cap viability (salary retention/Okposo). If Buffalo would agree to include additional picks/prospects - great! But in keeping with my aforementioned philosophy to pay whatever it costs to get what I want (within reason) - I would to the deal as I proposed if that's what it took to get the deal done. Don't get me wrong er,I'd demand Cozens in return too but an unproven prospect for a half priced potential Hart/Smythe winner who can fill the barn would require much more that Cozens IMO. If Cozens had a solid year or two under his belt,that'd be one thing but we don't even know how and if he can handle the league at this point. Taking Okposo's deal would require another massive haul in return but who knows with SB.......I doubt his tenure here ends well! When you say "pay whatever it costs to get what I want", do you just want Kane gone or do you consider Cozens a can't miss,elite player before he's played a single game? I don't want Kane gone just to see him go - I want to leverage him to expedite the rebuild. I consider Cozens on a par with Dach and although I wouldn't put him in the can't miss level just yet, I consider him as close to can't miss as Dach is. He had a very good D+1 year in the WHL so he's at least as promising as he was heading into the draft when he was in the group of players after Hughes and Kakko. |
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Post by vadarx on Nov 22, 2020 12:45:41 GMT -6
just gonna add my 0.02 here on the trading of Kane to Buffalo....
no way should we trade him for less than Cozens, a first rounder, and another pick in the 2nd or 3rd. I would say that would be a decent enough haul that I would consider it, but I'd probably want another pick if we retained salary.
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Post by ebonyraptor on Nov 22, 2020 16:05:24 GMT -6
just gonna add my 0.02 here on the trading of Kane to Buffalo.... no way should we trade him for less than Cozens, a first rounder, and another pick in the 2nd or 3rd. I would say that would be a decent enough haul that I would consider it, but I'd probably want another pick if we retained salary. Yeah, no question that as a Hawks fan I would like that haul too. The question is would Buffalo agree to it? I don't know the answer but I suspect Hawks fans will have a different opinion than Buffalo fans. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 3, 2022 10:03:39 GMT -6
Dug this thread up to discuss the Hawks D prospects.
They might not have a prospect projected to be a top2 but there's a good chance they'll have a few top4s, maybe more.
In order these are the ones who I think have the potential to be top4 dmen, Vlasic, Regula, Mitchell, Allan, Phillips, Del Mastro, Crevier, and Harding.
Besides Mitchell, those are some big dmen and the Hawks future D-core looks good, if they can land another top2, like Jones, they'll be tough to play against.
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Post by steamer on Jul 3, 2022 10:12:36 GMT -6
I like that list and with Luke’s focus on defense they will hopefully get some good coaching in the next couple of years.
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(taking it out of context, aren't I lol) 
