Question to the Core

[ebonyraptor]

Question to the Core.

I'd be curious to know how Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook would answer the following question: Would you rather be traded to a team with a legitimate chance to win the Stanley Cup or finish your career with the Hawks with virtually no chance to win another Cup for at least 4-5 years?

I suspect the players may not accept the premise of the question that staying with the Hawks and winning another Cup are mutually exclusive, but if they would be will to accept that premise, it would be interesting to know what they think, at their core, so to speak.

I don't expect 19/88/2/7 to answer the question, so the purpose of this thread is to ask - what would you do, and why.

My answer is that I would rather ride off into the sunset wearing the Hawks jersey. My rationale is that I have 3 Cup wins and it's more important to my legacy to play my entire career for the Hawks than to chase a 4th Cup with another team.

What say you?

[T-man2010]

I can see Keith staying with only 3 years left at 37 yrs. old. I would think he has 3 cups, a couple Olympic golds, 2 Norris and a Conn Smythe
Plus he can still play at an above average level. A pretty good career by any standards.

Toews and Kaner are 32 and both have already HOF careers of their own, but I can see them being OK with a trade to real contender on the verge.
They will have their sweaters hoisted to the rafters at the UC.

Seabs is a tough one to figure out. He was never a fleet of foot guy, but had reach and good positioning with physicality.
Maybe with the hips fixed and shoulder fixed he can get back some of his positioning and physicality back, we know it won't be
anywhere near 5 years ago level.

[ebonyraptor]

Nov 21, 2020 12:40:29 GMT -6 T-man2010 said:

I can see Keith staying with only 3 years left at 37 yrs. old. I would think he has 3 cups, a couple Olympic golds, 2 Norris and a Conn Smythe
Plus he can still play at an above average level. A pretty good career by any standards.

Toews and Kaner are 32 and both have already HOF careers of their own, but I can see them being OK with a trade to real contender on the verge.
They will have their sweaters hoisted to the rafters at the UC.

Seabs is a tough one to figure out. He was never a fleet of foot guy, but had reach and good positioning with physicality.
Maybe with the hips fixed and shoulder fixed he can get back some of his positioning and physicality back, we know it won't be
anywhere near 5 years ago level.

So, if you were in their situation - what would you do, and why?

[T-man2010]

Nov 21, 2020 14:03:38 GMT -6 ebonyraptor said:

Nov 21, 2020 12:40:29 GMT -6 T-man2010 said:

I can see Keith staying with only 3 years left at 37 yrs. old. I would think he has 3 cups, a couple Olympic golds, 2 Norris and a Conn Smythe
Plus he can still play at an above average level. A pretty good career by any standards.

Toews and Kaner are 32 and both have already HOF careers of their own, but I can see them being OK with a trade to real contender on the verge.
They will have their sweaters hoisted to the rafters at the UC.

Seabs is a tough one to figure out. He was never a fleet of foot guy, but had reach and good positioning with physicality.
Maybe with the hips fixed and shoulder fixed he can get back some of his positioning and physicality back, we know it won't be
anywhere near 5 years ago level.

So, if you were in their situation - what would you do, and why?

Again it depends if I was satisfied in what I accomplished in my career. If I had the success that they have had, I would stay. If not, then I ask for a trade and waive my NMC.

[hsbob]

What would I do....
I'd waive so fast SB's head would swim. I'd be disappointed if K&T settled for playing with a doormat just so they didn't have to move their families.......their HoF legacies are on the line.
Why....
No chance to compete at a high level for years to come here. "virtually no chance to win another cup for at least 4-5 years"? Just hope it ain't 45 years!
Poorly managed team.
Poorly coached team.
Mediocre at best prospect pool.

Keith stays to mentor at his age,he's still the best D-man on the roster and a a value @5.5M but who knows,he might waive for the same reasons K&T would.
Seabs........I don't know how SB gets out of this toilet clogger of a contract but there is one retained money spot left. It's still mind numbing that we had to retain money on Maata,that's either a bad trade this summer or last summer for adding a player we'd have to retain money on only a year later.

A better question might be,is ownership and the FO willing to move the meal tickets and be real bad for a few years? Would this decision be made by the Black Hawk's brass or the board of directors at Wirtz beverage? What's the difference between the two at this point?

[ebonyraptor]

Nov 22, 2020 9:24:29 GMT -6 hsbob said:

What would I do....
I'd waive so fast SB's head would swim. I'd be disappointed if K&T settled for playing with a doormat just so they didn't have to move their families.......their HoF legacies are on the line.
Why....
No chance to compete at a high level for years to come here. "virtually no chance to win another cup for at least 4-5 years"? Just hope it ain't 45 years!
Poorly managed team.
Poorly coached team.
Mediocre at best prospect pool.

Keith stays to mentor at his age,he's still the best D-man on the roster and a a value @5.5M but who knows,he might waive for the same reasons K&T would.
Seabs........I don't know how SB gets out of this toilet clogger of a contract but there is one retained money spot left. It's still mind numbing that we had to retain money on Maata,that's either a bad trade this summer or last summer for adding a player we'd have to retain money on only a year later.

A better question might be,is ownership and the FO willing to move the meal tickets and be real bad for a few years? Would this decision be made by the Black Hawk's brass or the board of directors at Wirtz beverage? What's the difference between the two at this point?

Right. It really comes down to a personal choice which is what (I think) makes this question interesting. T-man and me would choose to stay and you would choose to go, and for different reasons.

[Deleted]

If I'm Keith, I may consider waiving my NMC to reunite with Q in Florida, who continues to try and stabilize their defense. He could go a long way at playing on the 2nd pairing.

If I'm Seabrook, I'm basically telling Bowman to screw himself. Play me or not, you're paying me the remainder of the contract.

If I'm Kane and Toews, I'm looking for an opportunity to win a few more cups. They are still in their early 30's and by the time their contracts expire they will be nearing the end of their top line usefulness. But I'm holding the cards and telling the Hawks exactly where I want to be traded. Maybe they demand to be traded to the same team, one that may be just these 2 guys away for competing for the cup. The problem with trading both is likely salary would have to be retained to make it work, and of course Bowman screwed that up with retaining any money in the Maatta deal. Would New Jersey take the pair for Nico Hischier and draft picks for Kane, Toews, and retained salary to offset one of the stars? Hischier makes $7.250,000 a year thru the 2027 season. So retain $3,250,000 to offset one of the pair. That still would leave NJ about $7 million to fill out their final 6 roster spots, which would be tough. But picking up a 21 year old center with 3 years of NHL experience might be a steal in the end. Hischier really hasn't exploded and was a -16 plus/minus last season. But he's still young and could be ready to take off!

[acesandeights]

If I were Kane or Toews, I would want the chance at another cup or two. Their still young enough and still play at a high enough level they could really help a contender. This is just me thinking but at 32 I wouldn't be content to finish out my career on a rebuilding team, helping youngsters. They have some good years left.
How tradable they would be due to salary is another matter.

[LordKOTL]

Nov 21, 2020 11:35:13 GMT -6 ebonyraptor said:

Question to the Core.

I'd be curious to know how Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook would answer the following question: Would you rather be traded to a team with a legitimate chance to win the Stanley Cup or finish your career with the Hawks with virtually no chance to win another Cup for at least 4-5 years?

I suspect the players may not accept the premise of the question that staying with the Hawks and winning another Cup are mutually exclusive, but if they would be will to accept that premise, it would be interesting to know what they think, at their core, so to speak.

I don't expect 19/88/2/7 to answer the question, so the purpose of this thread is to ask - what would you do, and why.

My answer is that I would rather ride off into the sunset wearing the Hawks jersey. My rationale is that I have 3 Cup wins and it's more important to my legacy to play my entire career for the Hawks than to chase a 4th Cup with another team.

What say you?

What would I do?

Let's assume I bleed Red & Black, and am not a mercenary.  Further, I have an Ironclad NMC and am making a king's ransom in terms of a contract.  I am on a team that has a general manager who couldn't manage a good bowel movement without a how-to video.

I'm staying on the off-chance it that, by needing to work around my contract, it forces the upper management to can his ass.

[BigT]

I would stay until I couldn’t do it anymore. If it got to my final year, I’d want to be dealt in the summer if things looked no further ahead. I’d love to stay and see it through. But at 34, I’d have to move on, I may only give it till the end of this year coming up. If the team gets a top 5 pick and looks nowhere near winning, and I’m being pushed down the line, I’d be out.

I guess it all depends on what my role is. If my role is diminished and I’m being asked to be something I’m not, I’d want out. I wouldn’t waste 3 years of my life being made fun of by a guy that is being made fun of.

So I guess it’s all circumstantial!!!

[nighbor]

Nov 22, 2020 11:08:02 GMT -6 phill9 said:

If I'm Keith, I may consider waiving my NMC to reunite with Q in Florida, who continues to try and stabilize their defense. He could go a long way at playing on the 2nd pairing.

If I'm Seabrook, I'm basically telling Bowman to screw himself. Play me or not, you're paying me the remainder of the contract.

If I'm Kane and Toews, I'm looking for an opportunity to win a few more cups. They are still in their early 30's and by the time their contracts expire they will be nearing the end of their top line usefulness. But I'm holding the cards and telling the Hawks exactly where I want to be traded. Maybe they demand to be traded to the same team, one that may be just these 2 guys away for competing for the cup. The problem with trading both is likely salary would have to be retained to make it work, and of course Bowman screwed that up with retaining any money in the Maatta deal. Would New Jersey take the pair for Nico Hischier and draft picks for Kane, Toews, and retained salary to offset one of the stars? Hischier makes $7.250,000 a year thru the 2027 season. So retain $3,250,000 to offset one of the pair. That still would leave NJ about $7 million to fill out their final 6 roster spots, which would be tough. But picking up a 21 year old center with 3 years of NHL experience might be a steal in the end. Hischier really hasn't exploded and was a -16 plus/minus last season. But he's still young and could be ready to take off!

Keith would want to go to a winner.  He would not want to make a lateral move.  Even though Dale is supposedly the superior GM Florida is no closer to winning the cup than we are.  The core including Keith made Q so there is nothing Q can do for Keith.

Stan and the Blackhawks have no intention of stiffing Seabrook and he will be paid 100% of his money.  If Stan wanted to stiff Seabs he would have offered him a short term take it or leave it contract.

If Toews and Kane wanted to go to the same team Stan is under no obligation to give them away.  A team that really wanted them would be willing to pay the full amount.  If it was to NJ I would want Nico Hischier (23), Zajac (35), Palmieri (29) and Nikita Gusev (28) and one of their 2020 1st round picks.  They had three Anything less would be a slap in the face.  $21M out $22,150,000M in.  The 3 extra players are on expiring contracts and maybe worth something at the TDL.

[T-man2010]

Nov 25, 2020 1:45:50 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Nov 22, 2020 11:08:02 GMT -6 phill9 said:

If I'm Keith, I may consider waiving my NMC to reunite with Q in Florida, who continues to try and stabilize their defense. He could go a long way at playing on the 2nd pairing.

If I'm Seabrook, I'm basically telling Bowman to screw himself. Play me or not, you're paying me the remainder of the contract.

If I'm Kane and Toews, I'm looking for an opportunity to win a few more cups. They are still in their early 30's and by the time their contracts expire they will be nearing the end of their top line usefulness. But I'm holding the cards and telling the Hawks exactly where I want to be traded. Maybe they demand to be traded to the same team, one that may be just these 2 guys away for competing for the cup. The problem with trading both is likely salary would have to be retained to make it work, and of course Bowman screwed that up with retaining any money in the Maatta deal. Would New Jersey take the pair for Nico Hischier and draft picks for Kane, Toews, and retained salary to offset one of the stars? Hischier makes $7.250,000 a year thru the 2027 season. So retain $3,250,000 to offset one of the pair. That still would leave NJ about $7 million to fill out their final 6 roster spots, which would be tough. But picking up a 21 year old center with 3 years of NHL experience might be a steal in the end. Hischier really hasn't exploded and was a -16 plus/minus last season. But he's still young and could be ready to take off!

Keith would want to go to a winner.  He would not want to make a lateral move.  Even though Dale is supposedly the superior GM Florida is no closer to winning the cup than we are.  The core including Keith made Q so there is nothing Q can do for Keith.

Stan and the Blackhawks have no intention of stiffing Seabrook and he will be paid 100% of his money.  If Stan wanted to stiff Seabs he would have offered him a short term take it or leave it contract.

If Toews and Kane wanted to go to the same team Stan is under no obligation to give them away.  A team that really wanted them would be willing to pay the full amount.  If it was to NJ I would want Nico Hischier (23), Zajac (35), Palmieri (29) and Nikita Gusev (28) and one of their 2020 1st round picks.  They had three Anything less would be a slap in the face.  $21M out $22,150,000M in.  The 3 extra players are on expiring contracts and maybe worth something at the TDL.

Dale got fired during the summer. 
I guess they got tired of waiting 9+ years for something.

[BigT]

Nov 25, 2020 6:04:04 GMT -6 T-man2010 said:

Nov 25, 2020 1:45:50 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Keith would want to go to a winner.  He would not want to make a lateral move.  Even though Dale is supposedly the superior GM Florida is no closer to winning the cup than we are.  The core including Keith made Q so there is nothing Q can do for Keith.

Stan and the Blackhawks have no intention of stiffing Seabrook and he will be paid 100% of his money.  If Stan wanted to stiff Seabs he would have offered him a short term take it or leave it contract.

If Toews and Kane wanted to go to the same team Stan is under no obligation to give them away.  A team that really wanted them would be willing to pay the full amount.  If it was to NJ I would want Nico Hischier (23), Zajac (35), Palmieri (29) and Nikita Gusev (28) and one of their 2020 1st round picks.  They had three Anything less would be a slap in the face.  $21M out $22,150,000M in.  The 3 extra players are on expiring contracts and maybe worth something at the TDL.

Dale got fired during the summer. 
I guess they got tired of waiting 9+ years for something.

Dale also got replaced by a loser who set the org back 5 years. The team was doing great then they brought that non hockey guy in that had no dad working for the org, so he didn’t last a long as Stan. I would have bet Stan would a taken JVR over Kane. Once he had Kane given to him, he tried to copy that for a decade and crushed our team. Finally Kelley or someone said something and made him take Dach!!!

[hsbob]

Nov 25, 2020 6:04:04 GMT -6 T-man2010 said:

Nov 25, 2020 1:45:50 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Keith would want to go to a winner.  He would not want to make a lateral move.  Even though Dale is supposedly the superior GM Florida is no closer to winning the cup than we are.  The core including Keith made Q so there is nothing Q can do for Keith.

Stan and the Blackhawks have no intention of stiffing Seabrook and he will be paid 100% of his money.  If Stan wanted to stiff Seabs he would have offered him a short term take it or leave it contract.

If Toews and Kane wanted to go to the same team Stan is under no obligation to give them away.  A team that really wanted them would be willing to pay the full amount.  If it was to NJ I would want Nico Hischier (23), Zajac (35), Palmieri (29) and Nikita Gusev (28) and one of their 2020 1st round picks.  They had three Anything less would be a slap in the face.  $21M out $22,150,000M in.  The 3 extra players are on expiring contracts and maybe worth something at the TDL.

Dale got fired during the summer. 
I guess they got tired of waiting 9+ years for something.

Let's see how long WE gotta wait this time........five down,fourty four to go?

[hsbob]

Nov 25, 2020 1:45:50 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Nov 22, 2020 11:08:02 GMT -6 phill9 said:

If I'm Keith, I may consider waiving my NMC to reunite with Q in Florida, who continues to try and stabilize their defense. He could go a long way at playing on the 2nd pairing.

If I'm Seabrook, I'm basically telling Bowman to screw himself. Play me or not, you're paying me the remainder of the contract.

If I'm Kane and Toews, I'm looking for an opportunity to win a few more cups. They are still in their early 30's and by the time their contracts expire they will be nearing the end of their top line usefulness. But I'm holding the cards and telling the Hawks exactly where I want to be traded. Maybe they demand to be traded to the same team, one that may be just these 2 guys away for competing for the cup. The problem with trading both is likely salary would have to be retained to make it work, and of course Bowman screwed that up with retaining any money in the Maatta deal. Would New Jersey take the pair for Nico Hischier and draft picks for Kane, Toews, and retained salary to offset one of the stars? Hischier makes $7.250,000 a year thru the 2027 season. So retain $3,250,000 to offset one of the pair. That still would leave NJ about $7 million to fill out their final 6 roster spots, which would be tough. But picking up a 21 year old center with 3 years of NHL experience might be a steal in the end. Hischier really hasn't exploded and was a -16 plus/minus last season. But he's still young and could be ready to take off!

Keith would want to go to a winner.  He would not want to make a lateral move.  Even though Dale is supposedly the superior GM Florida is no closer to winning the cup than we are.  The core including Keith made Q so there is nothing Q can do for Keith.

Stan and the Blackhawks have no intention of stiffing Seabrook and he will be paid 100% of his money.  If Stan wanted to stiff Seabs he would have offered him a short term take it or leave it contract.

If Toews and Kane wanted to go to the same team Stan is under no obligation to give them away.  A team that really wanted them would be willing to pay the full amount.  If it was to NJ I would want Nico Hischier (23), Zajac (35), Palmieri (29) and Nikita Gusev (28) and one of their 2020 1st round picks.  They had three Anything less would be a slap in the face.  $21M out $22,150,000M in.  The 3 extra players are on expiring contracts and maybe worth something at the TDL.

Q missed the NHL PO's once as a HC before he arrived here and that was with a 95pts Avs team. Having a loaded roster(which he did here) guarantees nothing as we see with many loaded rosters........should the Caps and Bolts have more than one with those all star rosters? This edition of the Bruins are at or close to the top in the east every year but they're yet to follow up on that 2011 cup and that's a fact. 
Put Vasilevskiy on any of the top 5-6 teams and there's your winner last year. 
Can you say this team has improved since Q's firing? Can I say a Fla team that was four over the year before being ten over in Q's first year even though Bob had his worse year ever is an improvement?......think I can.
Vegas and the Avs also under performed when you consider their rosters this summer..........great coaching can overcome an under performing team some years but not this year for Vegas and the Avs and that's a fact too.
Q made the great core players as much as they made him and he was fired two years ago.........you're gonna have to find a new boogieman! 

[hsbob]

Nov 25, 2020 6:39:41 GMT -6 BigT said:

Nov 25, 2020 6:04:04 GMT -6 T-man2010 said:

Dale got fired during the summer. 
I guess they got tired of waiting 9+ years for something.

Dale also got replaced by a loser who set the org back 5 years. The team was doing great then they brought that non hockey guy in that had no dad working for the org, so he didn’t last a long as Stan. I would have bet Stan would a taken JVR over Kane. Once he had Kane given to him, he tried to copy that for a decade and crushed our team. Finally Kelley or someone said something and made him take Dach!!!

Maybe Talon shoulda done more with Fla but it's gotta be harder with a team drawin' 8-10K a game that it is with 20K plus every night.........did Fla spend to the cap limit every year? The Panthers won the Atlantic with 103pts the year before DT was moved upstairs and the goof you mentioned made some stupid trades and then fired Gallant on top of it. I still believe Talon's signing of Bob had something to do with his dismissal. They talked to Bob and the Breadman last summer........shoulda went with the breadman for a bit more IMO unless Bob regains his Vezena form..  

[BigT]

Nov 25, 2020 10:02:58 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Nov 25, 2020 6:39:41 GMT -6 BigT said:

Dale also got replaced by a loser who set the org back 5 years. The team was doing great then they brought that non hockey guy in that had no dad working for the org, so he didn’t last a long as Stan. I would have bet Stan would a taken JVR over Kane. Once he had Kane given to him, he tried to copy that for a decade and crushed our team. Finally Kelley or someone said something and made him take Dach!!!

Maybe Talon shoulda done more with Fla but it's gotta be harder with a team drawin' 8-10K a game that it is with 20K plus every night.........did Fla spend to the cap limit every year? The Panthers won the Atlantic with 103pts the year before DT was moved upstairs and the goof you mentioned made some stupid trades and then fired Gallant on top of it. I still believe Talon's signing of Bob had something to do with his dismissal. They talked to Bob and the Breadman last summer........shoulda went with the breadman for a bit more IMO unless Bob regains his Vezena form..  

I think you’re right. I don’t think Tallon did a bad job there. There were a lot of intangibles with that team. He got removed and had to clean up again. I think Tallon is a stubborn type guy, and he probably is an old school guy and it rubs people the wrong way. They were looking to get rid of him for a while. I think that’s why you heard racist accusations come about.

“Irregardless” of what Dale did elsewhere. It doesn’t take away or add to what he did here. I personally wouldn’t want him back, but I would want Mark Hunter or someone of that Ilk here to get her back on track!!!

[galaxytrash]

Nov 25, 2020 17:00:55 GMT -6 BigT said:

Nov 25, 2020 10:02:58 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Maybe Talon shoulda done more with Fla but it's gotta be harder with a team drawin' 8-10K a game that it is with 20K plus every night.........did Fla spend to the cap limit every year? The Panthers won the Atlantic with 103pts the year before DT was moved upstairs and the goof you mentioned made some stupid trades and then fired Gallant on top of it. I still believe Talon's signing of Bob had something to do with his dismissal. They talked to Bob and the Breadman last summer........shoulda went with the breadman for a bit more IMO unless Bob regains his Vezena form..  

I think you’re right. I don’t think Tallon did a bad job there. There were a lot of intangibles with that team. He got removed and had to clean up again. I think Tallon is a stubborn type guy, and he probably is an old school guy and it rubs people the wrong way. They were looking to get rid of him for a while. I think that’s why you heard racist accusations come about.

idk a thing about florida's ownership or their top front office people but dale's teams haven't won a playoff series since he got there in 2010, making the playoffs just twice. and tallon's draft record there has been average at best in florida.
unless the brass in florida are an absolute bunch of pricks, there's no reason whatsoever they would need to make up some slanderous shit like racist comments to fire him.
i'm the same as most here...i like dale. 
but from pete deboer to JQ, he's had 6 different coaches in his 9 years as g.m. there. it was just his turn.

edit: 3 of the 4 coaches that dale fired were hired when he was in the g.m. chair. that's likely more than most g.m.s get.

[nighbor]

Nov 25, 2020 6:39:41 GMT -6 BigT said:

Nov 25, 2020 6:04:04 GMT -6 T-man2010 said:

Dale got fired during the summer. 
I guess they got tired of waiting 9+ years for something.

Dale also got replaced by a loser who set the org back 5 years. The team was doing great then they brought that non hockey guy in that had no dad working for the org, so he didn’t last a long as Stan. I would have bet Stan would a taken JVR over Kane. Once he had Kane given to him, he tried to copy that for a decade and crushed our team. Finally Kelley or someone said something and made him take Dach!!!

Dale Tallon, Wikipedia 3.2 Florida Panthers disputes the bolded part.  To save you time I copied the important parts.  The Panthers posted a 47–26–9 in 2015–16, but were eliminated from the playoffs in the first round by the New York Islanders in six games. The team began the 2016–17 in last place in the Atlantic Division with an 11–10–1 record. On November 28, 2016, the Panthers fired head coach Gerard Gallant and moved general manager Tom Rowe to fill the vacancy.[18] Darren Dreger of TSN reported that Tallon would return to "taking a day-today management and player management player personnel decisions."[19] However, Vincent Viola, the team's owner, refuted Dreger's report of organizational changes, and clarified that "[Tallon] has always had final say over hockey decisions."[20] He added, "What we had done is bifurcate Dale from some things he didn't need to worry about anymore [negotiating contracts, for example]."[20]

The non hockey guy Tom Rowe played 7 seasons in the NHL. 

[galaxytrash]

Nov 26, 2020 0:48:29 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Nov 25, 2020 6:39:41 GMT -6 BigT said:

Dale also got replaced by a loser who set the org back 5 years. The team was doing great then they brought that non hockey guy in that had no dad working for the org, so he didn’t last a long as Stan. I would have bet Stan would a taken JVR over Kane. Once he had Kane given to him, he tried to copy that for a decade and crushed our team. Finally Kelley or someone said something and made him take Dach!!!

The non hockey guy Tom Rowe played 7 seasons in the NHL. 

seen on his wiki page that rowe was the first american born player to score 30 goals.
i wouldn't have guessed that in a hundred years.

[BigT]

Nov 26, 2020 0:48:29 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Nov 25, 2020 6:39:41 GMT -6 BigT said:

Dale also got replaced by a loser who set the org back 5 years. The team was doing great then they brought that non hockey guy in that had no dad working for the org, so he didn’t last a long as Stan. I would have bet Stan would a taken JVR over Kane. Once he had Kane given to him, he tried to copy that for a decade and crushed our team. Finally Kelley or someone said something and made him take Dach!!!

Dale Tallon, Wikipedia 3.2 Florida Panthers disputes the bolded part.  To save you time I copied the important parts.  The Panthers posted a 47–26–9 in 2015–16, but were eliminated from the playoffs in the first round by the New York Islanders in six games. The team began the 2016–17 in last place in the Atlantic Division with an 11–10–1 record. On November 28, 2016, the Panthers fired head coach Gerard Gallant and moved general manager Tom Rowe to fill the vacancy.[18] Darren Dreger of TSN reported that Tallon would return to "taking a day-today management and player management player personnel decisions."[19] However, Vincent Viola, the team's owner, refuted Dreger's report of organizational changes, and clarified that "[Tallon] has always had final say over hockey decisions."[20] He added, "What we had done is bifurcate Dale from some things he didn't need to worry about anymore [negotiating contracts, for example]."[20]

The non hockey guy Tom Rowe played 7 seasons in the NHL. 

So basically to refute what I said, you’re all but saying he did a good job? He fired his gawd damn coach after a road game and made him find his own way to the airport, with his luggage etc. The guy is a loser to do that to someone, and his track record speaks for itself!!!

[BigT]

Nov 26, 2020 0:57:07 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

Nov 26, 2020 0:48:29 GMT -6 nighbor said:

The non hockey guy Tom Rowe played 7 seasons in the NHL. 

seen on his wiki page that rowe was the first american born player to score 30 goals.
i wouldn't have guessed that in a hundred years.

I don’t think many would have. That would a been a good trivia question!!!

[nighbor]

Nov 26, 2020 7:40:09 GMT -6 BigT said:

Nov 26, 2020 0:48:29 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Dale Tallon, Wikipedia 3.2 Florida Panthers disputes the bolded part.  To save you time I copied the important parts.  The Panthers posted a 47–26–9 in 2015–16, but were eliminated from the playoffs in the first round by the New York Islanders in six games. The team began the 2016–17 in last place in the Atlantic Division with an 11–10–1 record. On November 28, 2016, the Panthers fired head coach Gerard Gallant and moved general manager Tom Rowe to fill the vacancy.[18] Darren Dreger of TSN reported that Tallon would return to "taking a day-today management and player management player personnel decisions."[19] However, Vincent Viola, the team's owner, refuted Dreger's report of organizational changes, and clarified that "[Tallon] has always had final say over hockey decisions."[20] He added, "What we had done is bifurcate Dale from some things he didn't need to worry about anymore [negotiating contracts, for example]."[20]

The non hockey guy Tom Rowe played 7 seasons in the NHL. 

So basically to refute what I said, you’re all but saying he did a good job? He fired his gawd damn coach after a road game and made him find his own way to the airport, with his luggage etc. The guy is a loser to do that to someone, and his track record speaks for itself!!!

I do not know enough about the situation and what he did or didn't do to critic his job performance.  I refuted what you said because according to Vincent Viola, the team's owner, (clarified that "[Tallon] has always had final say over hockey decisions."[20.  If the team owner is right and I have no reason to doubt him then it was actually Tallon who fired Gallant after a road game and left him to find his own ride home.

[BigT]

Nov 26, 2020 12:14:34 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Nov 26, 2020 7:40:09 GMT -6 BigT said:

So basically to refute what I said, you’re all but saying he did a good job? He fired his gawd damn coach after a road game and made him find his own way to the airport, with his luggage etc. The guy is a loser to do that to someone, and his track record speaks for itself!!!

I do not know enough about the situation and what he did or didn't do to critic his job performance.  I refuted what you said because according to Vincent Viola, the team's owner, (clarified that "[Tallon] has always had final say over hockey decisions."[20.  If the team owner is right and I have no reason to doubt him then it was actually Tallon who fired Gallant after a road game and left him to find his owtn ride home.

I never once said Tallon didn’t. All I said was that the accusations were very convenient, and he got axed shortly after. It seemed a little too good to be. I never once said he did a great job there, I just said that he started to get something going, had it taken away, then given back. If he was the man for the entirety there, then I’d agree with his firing. But I think he didn’t get the fairest shake there. Actually, there were quite a few who didn’t!!!

[nighbor]

Nov 26, 2020 14:54:38 GMT -6 BigT said:

Nov 26, 2020 12:14:34 GMT -6 nighbor said:

I do not know enough about the situation and what he did or didn't do to critic his job performance.  I refuted what you said because according to Vincent Viola, the team's owner, (clarified that "[Tallon] has always had final say over hockey decisions."[20.  If the team owner is right and I have no reason to doubt him then it was actually Tallon who fired Gallant after a road game and left him to find his owtn ride home.

I never once said Tallon didn’t. All I said was that the accusations were very convenient, and he got axed shortly after. It seemed a little too good to be. I never once said he did a great job there, I just said that he started to get something going, had it taken away, then given back. If he was the man for the entirety there, then I’d agree with his firing. But I think he didn’t get the fairest shake there. Actually, there were quite a few who didn’t!!!

Vincent Viola, the team's owner, (clarified that "[Tallon] has always had final say over hockey decisions."  To me always means uninterrupted.

[hsbob]

Nov 27, 2020 1:05:30 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Nov 26, 2020 14:54:38 GMT -6 BigT said:

I never once said Tallon didn’t. All I said was that the accusations were very convenient, and he got axed shortly after. It seemed a little too good to be. I never once said he did a great job there, I just said that he started to get something going, had it taken away, then given back. If he was the man for the entirety there, then I’d agree with his firing. But I think he didn’t get the fairest shake there. Actually, there were quite a few who didn’t!!!

Vincent Viola, the team's owner, (clarified that "[Tallon] has always had final say over hockey decisions."  To me always means uninterrupted.

That may be the case but I do remember Rowe trading a few players Talon drafted(Gubdranson 3rd overall) when he took over and the team looked worse for it so he fired one of the best HC's in the game and he did a classless job of it. I didn't think Talon was too crazy about being moved upstairs when it happened and why would he agree to trade players he drafted and fire a coach he hired that saw 103pts the year before. 

It seems the new guy came in with guns blazing and when and where did Viola say that?  

[T-man2010]

Nov 27, 2020 8:43:11 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Nov 27, 2020 1:05:30 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Vincent Viola, the team's owner, (clarified that "[Tallon] has always had final say over hockey decisions."  To me always means uninterrupted.

That may be the case but I do remember Rowe trading a few players Talon drafted(Gubdranson 3rd overall) when he took over and the team looked worse for it so he fired one of the best HC's in the game and he did a classless job of it. I didn't think Talon was too crazy about being moved upstairs when it happened and why would he agree to trade players he drafted and fire a coach he hired that saw 103pts the year before. 

It seems the new guy came in with guns blazing and when and where did Viola say that?  

Kind of like what we want here, new guy w/guns a blazing.

Of course we will get a guy who shoots himself in the foot.

[galaxytrash]

Nov 27, 2020 8:43:11 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Nov 27, 2020 1:05:30 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Vincent Viola, the team's owner, (clarified that "[Tallon] has always had final say over hockey decisions."  To me always means uninterrupted.

It seems the new guy came in with guns blazing and when and where did Viola say that?  

if you just google "tallon has always had the final say over hockey decisions" there's a lot of articles out there that show the quote.

i like this one in particular. it paints dale in a pretty good light and puts the blame for the florida mess more on viola.

www.si.com/hockey/news/let-s-hope-panthers-have-learned-from-their-mistakes

[hsbob]

Nov 27, 2020 18:35:39 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

Nov 27, 2020 8:43:11 GMT -6 hsbob said:

It seems the new guy came in with guns blazing and when and where did Viola say that?  

if you just google "tallon has always had the final say over hockey decisions" there's a lot of articles out there that show the quote.

i like this one in particular. it paints dale in a pretty good light and puts the blame for the florida mess more on viola.

www.si.com/hockey/news/let-s-hope-panthers-have-learned-from-their-mistakes

Thanks buddy,pretty much the way I remember it. 

[BigT]

Nov 27, 2020 1:05:30 GMT -6 nighbor said:

Nov 26, 2020 14:54:38 GMT -6 BigT said:

I never once said Tallon didn’t. All I said was that the accusations were very convenient, and he got axed shortly after. It seemed a little too good to be. I never once said he did a great job there, I just said that he started to get something going, had it taken away, then given back. If he was the man for the entirety there, then I’d agree with his firing. But I think he didn’t get the fairest shake there. Actually, there were quite a few who didn’t!!!

Vincent Viola, the team's owner, (clarified that "[Tallon] has always had final say over hockey decisions."  To me always means uninterrupted.

I highly doubt Tallon was the GM when Rowe was. Is that what you’re implying? I don’t understand your argument? At all!!!