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Post by T-man2010 on Mar 6, 2021 11:25:29 GMT -6
T-Man and Bob: Good try, boys, but I still don't get it. What is the bottom line effect on the Hawks' salary cap this year and for the next three, given whatever it is that Seabrook did? Will every penny they pay Seabrook count against the cap; or will some, or all of it, not count? I don't need to know why. I just would like to know what is the bottom line effect. If what I said before is correct about him staying on the payroll, then yes the Hawks pay his salary in full every year. But placing him on LTIR at the start of the season allows the Hawks to use the money and not affect the CAP. Same as any LTIR player.
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Post by T-man2010 on Mar 6, 2021 11:45:37 GMT -6
I'll leave this here. The video presentation along with Eddies interview from last night
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Post by jacksalmon on Mar 6, 2021 14:27:24 GMT -6
Since you apparently understand this stuff much better than I do, I'll fire some of my questions at you. What happened with Hossa? Was he traded to Arizona, but the Hawks kept the responsibility to pay his contract? Did the money they paid Hossa count against the Hawk salary cap; or because he was technically a Yote, it did not even though the Hawks were really the team paying him? So, if Seabrook stays on LTIR for the length of his remaining contract years, would the Hawks also have to trade him and pay his salary like they did with Hossa, if that is what happened, in order to not have the money paid him count against the cap? Or do some different rules apply to Seabrook that did not apply to Hossa? Bottom line, is there a way to pay Seabrook out for his contract length, but not have it count against the cap? If so, does it have to involve a trade, or is there another way to do it? As best as I can understand without being a "capologist" was Hossa's contract was front end loaded. The last years were a million dollars a year even though it was 6+ mill in cap space. Now Seabs is not as drastic as Hossa's was. Seabs will get 5 mill this year, then 6 mill, 5 mill and 4.5 mill the next 3 years. Cap is still 6.8+ each year. The Yotes took Hossa's contract, along with Datsyuk and Pronger's to reach the cap floor level. But we also had to trade some good minor prospects to make it work for them. Thanks, T-Man. I guess from what you are saying, the Yotes are paying Hossa full bore and the Hawks did not retain any of his salary. But, in order to get the benefit of getting out from under the Hossa contract, the Hawks had to give them some minor league prospects. So, what is the plan with Seabrook? Can they do the same thing with his contract and some other team that needs to get to the minimum, assuming there is one, or more, of them? Or, if they can't, or there are no teams that would do it, or the Hawks don't want to give away any more minor leaguers, do they have the full amount of the payment to Seabrook for each of the remaining years of his contract on the total of salaries paid to count 100% against the cap?
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Post by vadarx on Mar 6, 2021 16:59:51 GMT -6
on the cap notes.....
when the 'hawks moved Big Hoss to the desert, the yotes took on all of his salary. by that time, he wasn't owed too much as his deal was front loaded.
I am guessing they may try and do the same with Seabrook. trade him to a team trying to stay above the floor for a bag of pucks so they don't have to do roster gymnastics to begin each of the next 3 seasons. he won't be as easy to trade because his deal will cost the other team more than Hossa's did, but I think an added pick or lesser prospect would do it.
I don't believe he is retiring, so a full escape from the last 3 years of his deal isn't happening UNLESS the team and he come to an agreement on a job within the organization. if that happened, I could see him retiring after this season is over and he gets his bonus for next season.
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Post by shooter61 on Mar 6, 2021 17:11:37 GMT -6
on the cap notes..... when the 'hawks moved Big Hoss to the desert, the yours took on all of his salary. by that time, he wasn't owed too much as his deal was front loaded. I am guessing they may try and do the same with Seabrook. trade him to a team trying to stay above the floor for a bag of pucks so they don't have to do roster gymnastics to begin each of the next 3 seasons. he won't be as easy to trade because his deal will cost the other team more than Hossa's did, but I think an added pick or lesser prospect would do it. I don't believe he is retiring, so a full escape from the last 3 years of his deal isn't happening UNLESS the team and he come to an agreement on a job within the organization. if that happened, I could see him retiring after this season is over and he gets his bonus for next season. well what ever they decide to do I'm good with it , he is one of a kind and we were lucky to be able to watch him
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Post by hsbob on Mar 7, 2021 9:23:06 GMT -6
T-Man and Bob: Good try, boys, but I still don't get it. What is the bottom line effect on the Hawks' salary cap this year and for the next three, given whatever it is that Seabrook did? Will every penny they pay Seabrook count against the cap; or will some, or all of it, not count? I don't need to know why. I just would like to know what is the bottom line effect. I want to take another swing at this just because I'm not sure how this plays out either but I am sure his 6.8M is on the LTIR books this year for sure. As far as trading his deal,forget it. Hossa's and other trades like his were done by bottom feeders who needed to reach the cap floor and for players with big hits and small actual salaries due. The Yotes paid Hossa his 1M due to get that 5.5M cap hit.......I doubt we see anything of the kind anymore with a flat cap. I also think Seabs' actual retirement announcement is an important issue here,if we recall,Hossa couldn't actually make that announcement for that trade to be approved even though everyone knew he'd never lace em up again. I'm sure there was some sort of agreement between the player and the Org so this all goes pleasantly and as much as I'd like to see him give it another go.....kudos to both sides for the happy face on it all. As I said in another post,I don't know of another non-recapture player with several years of big money left retiring so I don't know how it works but I still don't see how a player who actually announces retirement stays on the team's LTIR list for more than the remainder of this year.
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Post by BigT on Mar 7, 2021 9:45:40 GMT -6
T-Man and Bob: Good try, boys, but I still don't get it. What is the bottom line effect on the Hawks' salary cap this year and for the next three, given whatever it is that Seabrook did? Will every penny they pay Seabrook count against the cap; or will some, or all of it, not count? I don't need to know why. I just would like to know what is the bottom line effect. I want to take another swing at this just because I'm not sure how this plays out either but I am sure his 6.8M is on the LTIR books this year for sure. As far as trading his deal,forget it. Hossa's and other trades like his were done by bottom feeders who needed to reach the cap floor and for players with big hits and small actual salaries due. The Yotes paid Hossa his 1M due to get that 5.5M cap hit.......I doubt we see anything of the kind anymore with a flat cap. I also think Seabs' actual retirement announcement is an important issue here,if we recall,Hossa couldn't actually make that announcement for that trade to be approved even though everyone knew he'd never lace em up again. I'm sure there was some sort of agreement between the player and the Org so this all goes pleasantly and as much as I'd like to see him give it another go.....kudos to both sides for the happy face on it all. As I said in another post,I don't know of another non-recapture player with several years of big money left retiring so I don't know how it works but I still don't see how a player who actually announces retirement stays on the team's LTIR list for more than the remainder of this year. Marc Savard was on LTIR forever. And the Bruins traded his deal. While I agree a flat cap hampers this deal. But I could see a team like Seattle taking on this deal for a solid prospect, roster player and a decent draft pick. It’s gonna cost the Hawks if they choose to move him. No other way around it. Unless Stan agrees to keep him for this year and next on LTIR, and he flat out retires for the final years giving the Hawks flexibility? I do agree that an agreement was already in place before this announcement. If the Hawks stay on the side of the shorter term deals and 1 year deals. They can hold his contract for another little while!!!
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Post by hsbob on Mar 7, 2021 10:49:26 GMT -6
I want to take another swing at this just because I'm not sure how this plays out either but I am sure his 6.8M is on the LTIR books this year for sure. As far as trading his deal,forget it. Hossa's and other trades like his were done by bottom feeders who needed to reach the cap floor and for players with big hits and small actual salaries due. The Yotes paid Hossa his 1M due to get that 5.5M cap hit.......I doubt we see anything of the kind anymore with a flat cap. I also think Seabs' actual retirement announcement is an important issue here,if we recall,Hossa couldn't actually make that announcement for that trade to be approved even though everyone knew he'd never lace em up again. I'm sure there was some sort of agreement between the player and the Org so this all goes pleasantly and as much as I'd like to see him give it another go.....kudos to both sides for the happy face on it all. As I said in another post,I don't know of another non-recapture player with several years of big money left retiring so I don't know how it works but I still don't see how a player who actually announces retirement stays on the team's LTIR list for more than the remainder of this year. Marc Savard was on LTIR forever. And the Bruins traded his deal. While I agree a flat cap hampers this deal. But I could see a team like Seattle taking on this deal for a solid prospect, roster player and a decent draft pick. It’s gonna cost the Hawks if they choose to move him. No other way around it. Unless Stan agrees to keep him for this year and next on LTIR, and he flat out retires for the final years giving the Hawks flexibility? I do agree that an agreement was already in place before this announcement. If the Hawks stay on the side of the shorter term deals and 1 year deals. They can hold his contract for another little while!!! If I recall,none of the other LTIR trades included a player who formally retired,didn't they all at least have to show some pretense of playing in the future? It's up to the team as far as how long they keep him on their LTIR list......has any other officially retired player ever stayed on a team's LTIR list? Hossa couldn't officially retire before the end of his deal due to recapture so we'll see how long this lasts.
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Post by T-man2010 on Mar 7, 2021 11:06:13 GMT -6
Marc Savard was on LTIR forever. And the Bruins traded his deal. While I agree a flat cap hampers this deal. But I could see a team like Seattle taking on this deal for a solid prospect, roster player and a decent draft pick. It’s gonna cost the Hawks if they choose to move him. No other way around it. Unless Stan agrees to keep him for this year and next on LTIR, and he flat out retires for the final years giving the Hawks flexibility? I do agree that an agreement was already in place before this announcement. If the Hawks stay on the side of the shorter term deals and 1 year deals. They can hold his contract for another little while!!! If I recall, none of the other LTIR trades included a player who formally retired, didn't they all at least have to show some pretense of playing in the future? It's up to the team as far as how long they keep him on their LTIR list......has any other officially retired player ever stayed on a team's LTIR list? Hossa couldn't officially retire before the end of his deal due to recapture so we'll see how long this lasts. Hossa is still under LTIR with the Yotes this year, then the contract expires. Pronger and Datsyuk had retired before the Yotes took their contracts too. So the Hawks can still keep Seabs contract on LTIR even retired.
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Post by galaxytrash on Mar 8, 2021 4:56:42 GMT -6
Old news likely. Whats the going rate for a full page these days i wonder?
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Post by vadarx on Mar 8, 2021 6:08:20 GMT -6
Old news likely. Whats the going rate for a full page these days i wonder? i've always liked that picture.....
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Post by BigT on Mar 8, 2021 6:50:11 GMT -6
If I recall, none of the other LTIR trades included a player who formally retired, didn't they all at least have to show some pretense of playing in the future? It's up to the team as far as how long they keep him on their LTIR list......has any other officially retired player ever stayed on a team's LTIR list? Hossa couldn't officially retire before the end of his deal due to recapture so we'll see how long this lasts. Hossa is still under LTIR with the Yotes this year, then the contract expires. Pronger and Datsyuk had retired before the Yotes took their contracts too. So the Hawks can still keep Seabs contract on LTIR even retired. One thing we have to keep in mind here is that the Yotes had to reach the cap floor. Hossa’s salary was merely a million and they got the full 5.275 cap hit. So more than likely if he’s traded, it’s for one hell of a haul. I think for the time being, the Hawks aren’t really interested in being right at the cap limit, so they’re ok with the LTIR. I wouldn’t doubt if Seabs and the org has an agreement in place where he’ll flat out retire at some point not handcuffing the Hawks. He’ll be compensated in other ways. Like become a coach or scout or part of management. And since a non players contract isn’t public info. They can pay him whatever they like. But, he will have to retire before accepting any role. One thing I found extremely odd. When Pronger retired and was LTIR’d, he worked for the NHL while having a SPC. I don’t see how that was possible and I think that’s why he resigned. But I don’t think Seabs situation will be a total damper on the organization!!!
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Post by T-man2010 on Mar 8, 2021 8:12:58 GMT -6
Hossa is still under LTIR with the Yotes this year, then the contract expires. Pronger and Datsyuk had retired before the Yotes took their contracts too. So the Hawks can still keep Seabs contract on LTIR even retired. One thing we have to keep in mind here is that the Yotes had to reach the cap floor. Hossa’s salary was merely a million and they got the full 5.275 cap hit. So more than likely if he’s traded, it’s for one hell of a haul. I think for the time being, the Hawks aren’t really interested in being right at the cap limit, so they’re ok with the LTIR. I wouldn’t doubt if Seabs and the org has an agreement in place where he’ll flat out retire at some point not handcuffing the Hawks. He’ll be compensated in other ways. Like become a coach or scout or part of management. And since a non players contract isn’t public info. They can pay him whatever they like. But, he will have to retire before accepting any role. One thing I found extremely odd. When Pronger retired and was LTIR’d, he worked for the NHL while having a SPC. I don’t see how that was possible and I think that’s why he resigned. But I don’t think Seabs situation will be a total damper on the organization!!! I mentioned the cap floor thing a few comments earlier. Like someone mentioned before the Savard situation with the Bruins is almost the same thing. Everyone knew Savard would never play again due to concussions and the Bruins did right by him continuing to pay him. Now I see the same for Seabs here, he's retiring because there's no way his hip will let him play at any real hockey level. I doubt there will be another situation like the Yotes had where they needed contracts just to reach the cap floor. And let's face it, 6+ million a year to pay Seabs is a drop in the bucket to Rocky and like with Hossa a few appearences by Seabs at the games will pay for it self.
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Post by hsbob on Mar 8, 2021 9:13:42 GMT -6
Thanks to you guys for the additional info. IMO,the team paying even this year's 6.8M to a player who wasn't asked to risk life or limb at any point is a decent compensation and next year's money would be a real handsome 'settlement' for lack of a better term and MAJOR kudos to both sides for such an amicable finish to what could have been otherwise. I've pointed out the things I thought SB and the FO haven't handled well but I think they handled everything well this time.
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Post by galaxytrash on Apr 20, 2021 9:11:23 GMT -6
seabrook's 36 today. only 7 defensemen older than him still playing so i hope he takes some solace in that.
happy birthday seabs.
from oldest to seabrook....
chara andy greene DK giordano ryan suter braydon coburn brent burns
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Post by galaxytrash on Jan 30, 2022 22:19:23 GMT -6
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Post by vadarx on Jan 30, 2022 22:23:21 GMT -6
I figured this was coming. glad they changed it.
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Post by hsbob on Jan 31, 2022 9:14:12 GMT -6
The last game I went to was Seabs' 1,000th and Scott Foster's 1st......hell of a game!
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Post by Tater on Jan 31, 2022 12:59:19 GMT -6
The last game I went to was Seabs' 1,000th and Scott Foster's 1st......hell of a game! Same here. What a game that was!
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Post by galaxytrash on Sept 3, 2022 17:58:41 GMT -6
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Post by T-man2010 on Sept 3, 2022 18:13:33 GMT -6
Suddenly a Monty Python song comes to mind.
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Post by LordKOTL on Sept 6, 2022 17:04:15 GMT -6
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Post by 2old4this on Sept 6, 2022 23:54:58 GMT -6
Seabs, good luck in your new coaching profession. When you've worked your way up the ladder, come back to Chicago and coach the B'hawks!
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Post by T-man2010 on Sept 7, 2022 7:16:23 GMT -6
Was thinking more the Lumberjack song.
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Post by LordKOTL on Sept 7, 2022 10:51:02 GMT -6
Was thinking more the Lumberjack song. Better that than "Every Sperm is Sacred"
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Post by hsbob on Sept 7, 2022 13:03:06 GMT -6
I got so fed up with women asking me if I was on facebook a few years back(I'm still not),I took to saying "I'm on 'sitonmyfacebook' and I'm always lookin' for a new friend"......I'd then STFU and wait for a response......they could be telling.....to say the least!LOL! You young guys will find your 'game' evolves for lack of a better term and your skills need to evolve too.
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Post by LordKOTL on Sept 7, 2022 18:26:04 GMT -6
I got so fed up with women asking me if I was on facebook a few years back(I'm still not),I took to saying "I'm on 'sitonmyfacebook' and I'm always lookin' for a new friend"......I'd then STFU and wait for a response......they could be telling.....to say the least!LOL! You young guys will find your 'game' evolves for lack of a better term and your skills need to evolve too. Well, as of July I've been married for 11 years, so I think my game has to be good enough . But I gotta say, "Sitonmyfacebook" had me rolling!
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Post by galaxytrash on Jan 25, 2023 19:31:43 GMT -6
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Post by BigT on Jan 25, 2023 21:51:30 GMT -6
I didn’t know he got the hip replacement? Good for him it all worked out. Sucks to get a hip replacement at his age. But it seems to be working. I’m glad Seabs got the opportunity for a HC gig. Even if it ya for one game!!!
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Post by hsbob on Jan 26, 2023 8:44:52 GMT -6
I didn’t know he got the hip replacement? Good for him it all worked out. Sucks to get a hip replacement at his age. But it seems to be working. I’m glad Seabs got the opportunity for a HC gig. Even if it ya for one game!!! The procedure is down to a science now,everybody I know that got a new one's happier than a kid in a candy store and were back up and at em in a few weeks.
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