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Post by LordKOTL on Mar 5, 2021 9:13:26 GMT -6
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Post by hsbob on Mar 5, 2021 9:17:55 GMT -6
Beat me too it Lord. Thanks for all the GREAT hockey and lifelong memories Brent Seabrook.
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Post by shooter61 on Mar 5, 2021 9:20:19 GMT -6
yup it's official , he's done,
But we wouldn't be where we are without him, from calming JT in the sin bin to shutting down top goal scorer's he did it all ,
some glad I got to watch him play for all those years
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Post by BigT on Mar 5, 2021 9:20:48 GMT -6
It’s sad to see him go. He was a warrior. I think we all seen this coming. Seabs may have been the last of the real. You’ll never find another quite like him. Stan gets his valuable cap space back now, he’s gonna have a lot to play with again. Let’s hope it’s better this time!!!
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Post by mikeveisor on Mar 5, 2021 9:21:07 GMT -6
The very best use of Niklas Kronwall on that OT series clincher in 2013. Thank you Seabs, and for centering our Captain to get his head back in that series. |
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Post by shooter61 on Mar 5, 2021 9:22:00 GMT -6
Now I'm worried what Stan will do with the money
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Post by BigT on Mar 5, 2021 9:31:58 GMT -6
Now I'm worried what Stan will do with the money Let’s just hope we don’t hear the same thing about Toews. The longer this goes on with no answers the more it’s seems to worry me. Seabrook had “tweaked” back. Now he’s retired. Hopefully everything is ok on the 19 train and we get some good news soon!!! |
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Post by tincup on Mar 5, 2021 10:16:09 GMT -6
My favourite Hawk of the modern era, he could have fit right in on any generation of the game. Get him down to Rockford to work on the next group working their way up.
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Post by hsbob on Mar 5, 2021 10:49:29 GMT -6
How many guys woulda milked the LTIR route for every penny due them? What a massive favor Seabs did his team and what a break for SB.....with Seabs' deal gone,it should be up and away I'm told. More room to pay de HAAN 4.55M again next year........right?
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Post by T-man2010 on Mar 5, 2021 10:50:26 GMT -6
My favourite Hawk of the modern era, he could have fit right in on any generation of the game. Get him down to Rockford to work on the next group working their way up. They can start with him there and then end up back here as an assistant coach. I have nothing against Brookbank but I think the players would react better to a guy like Seabs more. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Mar 5, 2021 10:59:01 GMT -6
How many guys woulda milked the LTIR route for every penny due them? What a massive favor Seabs did his team and what a break for SB.....with Seabs' deal gone,it should be up and away I'm told. More room to pay de HAAN 4.55M again next year........right? According to TSN.ca, it's LTIRetirement. We'll see though. 6.8M carried for the next 3 years is a lot. |
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Post by tincup on Mar 5, 2021 11:09:39 GMT -6
How many guys woulda milked the LTIR route for every penny due them? What a massive favor Seabs did his team and what a break for SB.....with Seabs' deal gone,it should be up and away I'm told. More room to pay de HAAN 4.55M again next year........right? According to TSN.ca, it's LTIRetirement. We'll see though. 6.8M carried for the next 3 years is a lot. So is this a Hossa type deal where you’ll have to trade the contract away? I get so confused sometimes by the maneuvering around contracts. |
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Post by tincup on Mar 5, 2021 11:11:09 GMT -6
My favourite Hawk of the modern era, he could have fit right in on any generation of the game. Get him down to Rockford to work on the next group working their way up. They can start with him there and then end up back here as an assistant coach. I have nothing against Brookbank but I think the players would react better to a guy like Seabs more. I think Seabrook has the temperament to be a coach but wouldn’t it be hard to coach players you were playing with a few short months ago? |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Mar 5, 2021 11:15:28 GMT -6
Sad news, and like other's have said, he's doing the Hawks a huge favor by retiring.
Can't wait to see him behind the Hawks bench one day 👍
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Mar 5, 2021 11:16:53 GMT -6
They can start with him there and then end up back here as an assistant coach. I have nothing against Brookbank but I think the players would react better to a guy like Seabs more. I think Seabrook has the temperament to be a coach but wouldn’t it be hard to coach players you were playing with a few short months ago? I doubt it, he was basically a player/coach anyways plus he's well respected. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Mar 5, 2021 11:24:46 GMT -6
According to TSN.ca, it's LTIRetirement. We'll see though. 6.8M carried for the next 3 years is a lot. So is this a Hossa type deal where you’ll have to trade the contract away? I get so confused sometimes by the maneuvering around contracts. Seabrook's contract is not a recapture-risk, so if he flat-out retires the 'hawks have no cap penalty--nor is it a 35+ deal. The only issue is Seabrook, if he flat-out retires, walks away from $10M. Just speculation on my part, but I think the 'hawks are using the rest of the year on LTIR (since it changes nothing in the here-and-now) to come up with options to lessen their LTIR cap burden but still make sure Seabs is paid. |
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Post by Tater on Mar 5, 2021 11:49:04 GMT -6
So is this a Hossa type deal where you’ll have to trade the contract away? I get so confused sometimes by the maneuvering around contracts. Seabrook's contract is not a recapture-risk, so if he flat-out retires the 'hawks have no cap penalty--nor is it a 35+ deal. The only issue is Seabrook, if he flat-out retires, walks away from $10M. Just speculation on my part, but I think the 'hawks are using the rest of the year on LTIR (since it changes nothing in the here-and-now) to come up with options to lessen their LTIR cap burden but still make sure Seabs is paid.
I'm still confused, I guess it means we just have to wait and see? Anyways, thanks for the great memories Seabs. I hope he stay within the org in some capacity. I could see him getting into broadcasting too, like Sharpie.
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Post by hsbob on Mar 5, 2021 11:50:16 GMT -6
How many guys woulda milked the LTIR route for every penny due them? What a massive favor Seabs did his team and what a break for SB.....with Seabs' deal gone,it should be up and away I'm told. More room to pay de HAAN 4.55M again next year........right? According to TSN.ca, it's LTIRetirement. We'll see though. 6.8M carried for the next 3 years is a lot. I just noticed CF has him on LTIR which he wasn't on till now,this really isn't a retirement then or I don't understand the rules. |
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Post by BigT on Mar 5, 2021 11:52:44 GMT -6
So is this a Hossa type deal where you’ll have to trade the contract away? I get so confused sometimes by the maneuvering around contracts. Seabrook's contract is not a recapture-risk, so if he flat-out retires the 'hawks have no cap penalty--nor is it a 35+ deal. The only issue is Seabrook, if he flat-out retires, walks away from $10M. Just speculation on my part, but I think the 'hawks are using the rest of the year on LTIR (since it changes nothing in the here-and-now) to come up with options to lessen their LTIR cap burden but still make sure Seabs is paid. I’ve said this before. It’s not the most popular. But I’m on record saying Seabs would never see the end of this contract, and he’d do the Hawks a favour and they’d somehow compensate him. I’d bet he gets a job working for the Hawks for a nice salary. Then I’d bet his contract had insurance on it and if he has to retire do to injury, he gets 1/3 of it. And the Hawks will somehow compensate him for the rest!!! |
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Post by jacksalmon on Mar 5, 2021 11:53:23 GMT -6
Too bad for Seabrook. He was a great player and leader. OK, here is where I need all you smart guys on this website. I read that he will go on LTIR, even though he retired. So, can someone please explain for an idiot, like myself, what is the effect of his status on the salary cap for this year and the rest of his contract? Is there some means by which his scheduled salary will simply come off the books at some point? Thanks for taking the time to explain it to a moron.
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Post by hawkfaninpdx on Mar 5, 2021 12:01:08 GMT -6
It's the end of an era. Seabrook, for me, has always represented the Blackhawk resurgence and their drive to the top. He's been my favorite player over the years.
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Post by madrose on Mar 5, 2021 12:26:06 GMT -6
I will never forget Seabs calming down Tazer in the penalty box and his incredible OT GWGs! Detroit & Boston series GWGs also great memories.
All the best to Seabs and his family. Thank you for the memories. You will be missed.
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Post by LordKOTL on Mar 5, 2021 12:37:34 GMT -6
Seabrook's contract is not a recapture-risk, so if he flat-out retires the 'hawks have no cap penalty--nor is it a 35+ deal. The only issue is Seabrook, if he flat-out retires, walks away from $10M. Just speculation on my part, but I think the 'hawks are using the rest of the year on LTIR (since it changes nothing in the here-and-now) to come up with options to lessen their LTIR cap burden but still make sure Seabs is paid.
I'm still confused, I guess it means we just have to wait and see? Anyways, thanks for the great memories Seabs. I hope he stay within the org in some capacity. I could see him getting into broadcasting too, like Sharpie.
Sincerely trying to clear this up: Recapture-risk contracts like Keith's and Hossa's mean if they retire before the end of their contract, the signing team is penalized what's called, "Cap Advantage". What this means is that when the player with a recapture-risk contract retires, they take the remaining actual salary and subtract it from the remaining cap hit salary, and divide it by the years remaining: For example, in Keith's case he makes $5,538,462 per year in cap salary. His actual salary is less--this year he makes only $2,650,000 per year. Next year it's $2,100,000, and the final year is $1,500,000. This balances out since he was making up to $8M in actual salary early. So if Keith would retire this summer, he would be making only $3,600,000 over the final two years of his deal in actual salary, vs. $11,076,924 in cap salary over his final 2 years. That means he has $7,476,924 in cap advantage over 2 seasons, and the 'hawks would have a cap penalty of $3,738,462 over the next 2 years. There is no way out for the signing team--even if they trade the player. In recapture-risk deals the idea was that teams could keep the cap hit of players down by front-loading the contracts with a lot of money when the player is young and good, but when they're older, not as good, and not making much in actual salary money they could retire and not leave money on the table, and the team would have (before the 2013 CBA) had no cap penalty. Because of that 2013 CBA and the recapture clause, any team that signed a recapture-risk contract (one that doesn't follow the rules in the 2013 CBA) would have a cap penalty. Seabrook's contract is not a recapture risk. He was signed after those types of deals were outlawed and this his contract (like Toews, Kanes, etc.) has rules about frontloading and salary variance. If Seabrook would outright retire there would be no cap penalty. BUT, the difference is that if Seabrook retires outright, he'd be leaving ~14.5M on the table (bad math on my part earlier), while Keith being a recapture-risk would be leaving $3.6M on the table. By going on LTIR, Seabs can still get the actual salary he's owed over the next 3 seasons, but at the coast of the Blackhawks still having to carry his contract. It counts in the offseason for LTIR overages, and during the season, so it's not as if his deal is 100% gone if he's LTIR'ed. But at this point we have to wait and see. There's some rumblings form the league about not having to protect players who medically can't play so I'm unsure how that affects Seattle expansion (as the rules stand now, if Seabroook was LTIR'ed we'd still have to protect him since he still has an NMC). He coluld be LTIR'ed through the duration, or at some point he may outright retire. I don't know. Either way hell of a career from Seabs. Havlat should get him a soda. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Mar 5, 2021 12:45:21 GMT -6
Seabrook's contract is not a recapture-risk, so if he flat-out retires the 'hawks have no cap penalty--nor is it a 35+ deal. The only issue is Seabrook, if he flat-out retires, walks away from $10M. Just speculation on my part, but I think the 'hawks are using the rest of the year on LTIR (since it changes nothing in the here-and-now) to come up with options to lessen their LTIR cap burden but still make sure Seabs is paid. I’ve said this before. It’s not the most popular. But I’m on record saying Seabs would never see the end of this contract, and he’d do the Hawks a favour and they’d somehow compensate him. I’d bet he gets a job working for the Hawks for a nice salary. Then I’d bet his contract had insurance on it and if he has to retire do to injury, he gets 1/3 of it. And the Hawks will somehow compensate him for the rest!!! I wouldn't be surprised, but I think that the 'hawks have to somehow avoid the image that they got Seabrook to retire and gave him a job that pays him approximately the same as merely a means to circumvent the cap. Even if it's not strictly dictated in the CBA, the league can choose to make an example of it--like Kovalchuk. Since Seabrook's deal is not a recapture-risk, I think there would be interest from the league proper to not have a loophole be exploited for circumventing cap. I'm not saying it can't be done, but given the state of the 'hawks if they play this fast and loose and the league decides to make us an example, it can suck for the rebuild. |
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Post by Tater on Mar 5, 2021 13:17:33 GMT -6
I'm still confused, I guess it means we just have to wait and see? Anyways, thanks for the great memories Seabs. I hope he stay within the org in some capacity. I could see him getting into broadcasting too, like Sharpie.
Sincerely trying to clear this up: Recapture-risk contracts like Keith's and Hossa's mean if they retire before the end of their contract, the signing team is penalized what's called, "Cap Advantage". What this means is that when the player with a recapture-risk contract retires, they take the remaining actual salary and subtract it from the remaining cap hit salary, and divide it by the years remaining: For example, in Keith's case he makes $5,538,462 per year in cap salary. His actual salary is less--this year he makes only $2,650,000 per year. Next year it's $2,100,000, and the final year is $1,500,000. This balances out since he was making up to $8M in actual salary early. So if Keith would retire this summer, he would be making only $3,600,000 over the final two years of his deal in actual salary, vs. $11,076,924 in cap salary over his final 2 years. That means he has $7,476,924 in cap advantage over 2 seasons, and the 'hawks would have a cap penalty of $3,738,462 over the next 2 years. There is no way out for the signing team--even if they trade the player. In recapture-risk deals the idea was that teams could keep the cap hit of players down by front-loading the contracts with a lot of money when the player is young and good, but when they're older, not as good, and not making much in actual salary money they could retire and not leave money on the table, and the team would have (before the 2013 CBA) had no cap penalty. Because of that 2013 CBA and the recapture clause, any team that signed a recapture-risk contract (one that doesn't follow the rules in the 2013 CBA) would have a cap penalty. Seabrook's contract is not a recapture risk. He was signed after those types of deals were outlawed and this his contract (like Toews, Kanes, etc.) has rules about frontloading and salary variance. If Seabrook would outright retire there would be no cap penalty. BUT, the difference is that if Seabrook retires outright, he'd be leaving ~14.5M on the table (bad math on my part earlier), while Keith being a recapture-risk would be leaving $3.6M on the table. By going on LTIR, Seabs can still get the actual salary he's owed over the next 3 seasons, but at the coast of the Blackhawks still having to carry his contract. It counts in the offseason for LTIR overages, and during the season, so it's not as if his deal is 100% gone if he's LTIR'ed. But at this point we have to wait and see. There's some rumblings form the league about not having to protect players who medically can't play so I'm unsure how that affects Seattle expansion (as the rules stand now, if Seabroook was LTIR'ed we'd still have to protect him since he still has an NMC). He coluld be LTIR'ed through the duration, or at some point he may outright retire. I don't know. Either way hell of a career from Seabs. Havlat should get him a soda.
Thanks, I'm still kind of confused though. Do we know yet how much cap relief the Hawks get from this?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2021 13:39:34 GMT -6
Sad news but not unexpected. Guy played a ton of physical hockey over the years.
Obviously was a key piece to the dynasty and all 3 Cups, will definitely be missed.
I look forward to seeing 7 hanging in the rafters one day (just hope it's not a combo with Chelios)
I don't think his true importance to the team will ever be known to anyone outside the locker room, as his leadership was every bit as important to the team as Toews' by all accounts and he was often the "bad cop" who got guys in line if they were falling out of it.
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Post by T-man2010 on Mar 5, 2021 13:40:15 GMT -6
According to TSN.ca, it's LTIRetirement. We'll see though. 6.8M carried for the next 3 years is a lot. I just noticed CF has him on LTIR which he wasn't on till now,this really isn't a retirement then or I don't understand the rules. Also they have moved Shaw and Smith to LTIR. They no longer show a IR list. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Mar 5, 2021 14:00:14 GMT -6
Sincerely trying to clear this up: Recapture-risk contracts like Keith's and Hossa's mean if they retire before the end of their contract, the signing team is penalized what's called, "Cap Advantage". What this means is that when the player with a recapture-risk contract retires, they take the remaining actual salary and subtract it from the remaining cap hit salary, and divide it by the years remaining: For example, in Keith's case he makes $5,538,462 per year in cap salary. His actual salary is less--this year he makes only $2,650,000 per year. Next year it's $2,100,000, and the final year is $1,500,000. This balances out since he was making up to $8M in actual salary early. So if Keith would retire this summer, he would be making only $3,600,000 over the final two years of his deal in actual salary, vs. $11,076,924 in cap salary over his final 2 years. That means he has $7,476,924 in cap advantage over 2 seasons, and the 'hawks would have a cap penalty of $3,738,462 over the next 2 years. There is no way out for the signing team--even if they trade the player. In recapture-risk deals the idea was that teams could keep the cap hit of players down by front-loading the contracts with a lot of money when the player is young and good, but when they're older, not as good, and not making much in actual salary money they could retire and not leave money on the table, and the team would have (before the 2013 CBA) had no cap penalty. Because of that 2013 CBA and the recapture clause, any team that signed a recapture-risk contract (one that doesn't follow the rules in the 2013 CBA) would have a cap penalty. Seabrook's contract is not a recapture risk. He was signed after those types of deals were outlawed and this his contract (like Toews, Kanes, etc.) has rules about frontloading and salary variance. If Seabrook would outright retire there would be no cap penalty. BUT, the difference is that if Seabrook retires outright, he'd be leaving ~14.5M on the table (bad math on my part earlier), while Keith being a recapture-risk would be leaving $3.6M on the table. By going on LTIR, Seabs can still get the actual salary he's owed over the next 3 seasons, but at the coast of the Blackhawks still having to carry his contract. It counts in the offseason for LTIR overages, and during the season, so it's not as if his deal is 100% gone if he's LTIR'ed. But at this point we have to wait and see. There's some rumblings form the league about not having to protect players who medically can't play so I'm unsure how that affects Seattle expansion (as the rules stand now, if Seabroook was LTIR'ed we'd still have to protect him since he still has an NMC). He coluld be LTIR'ed through the duration, or at some point he may outright retire. I don't know. Either way hell of a career from Seabs. Havlat should get him a soda.
Thanks, I'm still kind of confused though. Do we know yet how much cap relief the Hawks get from this?
Standard LTIR relief (and rules) of ~$6.8M. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2021 14:28:26 GMT -6
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Post by Tater on Mar 5, 2021 14:33:37 GMT -6
That is a great article, thank you for posting it. |
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