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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 11, 2021 20:02:10 GMT -6
Playing Devil's advocate here: The 'hawks are likely closer to being ~2006-2008 than they are 2010-2015. We are not exactly a destination. Players aren't going to play here to try and win a cup; Hell, players might avoid playing here because they don't want to be sexually harassed #TooSoonOrNotSoonEnoughHe is what he is at this point and that is a 4th line energy guy on the upside in terms of drive. So maybe not a dime a dozen, but not exactly a rarity. On the other hand it's not like the 'hawks are going anywhere anytime soon. If a 4th line energy guy is one of the few bright spots this season, it shows how far the mighty have fallen. You also have teams like Nashville, Colorado, Carolina, and even Boston who are playoff contending teams and under the cap floor right now. Also, consider this: Nylander is at .38ppg and was making 1.7M. Hagel's at .42ppg and was making under 1M. If I was Hagel I'd be looking for $2M at least and using Nylander as a comparable. You know some team out there is going to pay it. If the team's 5th leading scorer is a 4th line energy guy.......God help us! I like the kid and I think his upside is higher than a 4th liner but we'll see...... lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2021/07/11/chicago-blackhawks-brandon-hagel/To be honest,I wouldn't be real surprised to see Hagle end up traded if he wants decent money and VH will probably be gone as well.......the staff doesn't seen to appreciate their playing styles. The real question is "decent money"? Right now the 'hawks are going into next season with about 6.2M cap free. They have 10-12 FWDs signed (depending on whether or not Toews plays and if Seattle selects a FWD), 7 D-men signed (could be 6 if Seattle takes one), and 3 Goalies signed (could be 2 if Seattle takes one). We got 750k in dead cap thanks to Olli Maata, And right now Seabrook and Shaw are on the books, but likely LTIR'ed until the end of their deals. We also have to consider Nylander, who I'm sure others besides me would love to take a walk, might be resigned and take a chunk out of the remaining cap even though he's 10.02c as well. There are slots that Hagel could rightfully claim at FWD, over guys like Entwhistle and Hardman. If Zaddy is resigned again, that might take a chunk out. Hino, Suter, Gaudette, and Kampf are also looking to be re-signed; again, I think there's an argument of Hino over a couple of them--except Suter and maybe Gaudette. We also have a problem of roster slots with a lot of Meh. guys having a contract. Connelly being one. That may make Hagel a hard one to keel just to keep the amount of roster players down--especially if we can't re-home some guys, or Stqan is preferring guys with nebulous talent with the inability to bring it game-in/game out. Honestly, I'd be willing to do 2M for 2 or 2.5M for 1 for Hagel as long as Nylander and probably 1 or 2 other guys walk. I don't think it's too much for a bottom-6 anchor guy as long as term isn't there and it's a "okay kid, you had a good initial showing, now let's see how much you improve." I think a lot will also depend on who ends up staying and going this offseason. One guy will go to Seattle. There's rumors of Keith wanting an out. If more guys go or we manage to trade away Shaw or Seabs' contracts that's more money and roster slots free, and in my opinion it'll be harder and harder to justify not re-signing Hagel unless his asking price is over 2.5M and he won't budge. But I don't think there are many players who are looking for a new deal that have proven that they have more tangible value. Hagel gives it all on the ice. Nylander hasn't--any value he has is largely intangible. Not to mention he's the youngest of all of our FA's--there's a strong argument that Zadorov, Suter, Hino, and Kampf being on the other side of 25 are what they are at this point. Gaudette (24), Nylander (23), and Hagel (22) theoretically have more room to actually grow. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 12, 2021 8:46:19 GMT -6
One guy that wants out of Buffalo that the Hawks should target is Ristolainen, 1yr left at 5.4mill and he's just entering his prime, offer them Murphy and Boqvist or a forward.
I'd like to see Hino back because he brings speed, energy, and some offense and can play on any line. And Hagel should be signed, let Kampf go and same with Nylander but that's not gonna happen.
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Post by BigT on Jul 12, 2021 11:29:49 GMT -6
One guy that wants out of Buffalo that the Hawks should target is Ristolainen, 1yr left at 5.4mill and he's just entering his prime, offer them Murphy and Boqvist or a forward. I'd like to see Hino back because he brings speed, energy, and some offense and can play on any line. And Hagel should be signed, let Kampf go and same with Nylander but that's not gonna happen. I agree with pretty much everything here. Murphy is ok, but I still feel he’s overpaid. He doesn’t bring that much night in and out. He’s a bottom pairing guy and at roughly 4 million, that’s too much. As for Ristolainen, when you think of it, is Jones that much better? I know Buffalo sucks, that’s not much of a hidden secret. But I look at Risto’s numbers and he’s had 4 years of 40+ points. Jones has 3, but has a 57 point season. Both on terrible teams last year and both obviously struggled. I’d have to think on a Hawks pp Risto would easily be back to the 45 point mark if not more. Jones would be very good too. However, I think re-signing Risto would be a lot easier and more than likely get him around 6 million per where as Jones probably wants 9. So it may not work out with Jones long term. As for Hino. I don’t mind him. But I think he’s more of a problem than helper. He’s probably not a playoff warrior we desire, he can help get you there, but I think it’ll end up not being what the Hawks need. Having Kane, Dcat and Hino I don’t think helps. Need size to go with the little ones. If he’s here, I won’t mind, but I think a better thought out plan should be in place. Scam brought Hino in a on weak attempt to make the playoffs and it failed. Plus there’s like 19 forwards that are looking at most 13 jobs. I don’t see a spot here. But if they ousted like 4-5 of those guys, then it gets easier to sign him!!! |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 12, 2021 11:38:44 GMT -6
If the team's 5th leading scorer is a 4th line energy guy.......God help us! I like the kid and I think his upside is higher than a 4th liner but we'll see...... lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2021/07/11/chicago-blackhawks-brandon-hagel/To be honest,I wouldn't be real surprised to see Hagle end up traded if he wants decent money and VH will probably be gone as well.......the staff doesn't seen to appreciate their playing styles. The real question is "decent money"? Right now the 'hawks are going into next season with about 6.2M cap free. They have 10-12 FWDs signed (depending on whether or not Toews plays and if Seattle selects a FWD), 7 D-men signed (could be 6 if Seattle takes one), and 3 Goalies signed (could be 2 if Seattle takes one). We got 750k in dead cap thanks to Olli Maata, And right now Seabrook and Shaw are on the books, but likely LTIR'ed until the end of their deals. We also have to consider Nylander, who I'm sure others besides me would love to take a walk, might be resigned and take a chunk out of the remaining cap even though he's 10.02c as well. There are slots that Hagel could rightfully claim at FWD, over guys like Entwhistle and Hardman. If Zaddy is resigned again, that might take a chunk out. Hino, Suter, Gaudette, and Kampf are also looking to be re-signed; again, I think there's an argument of Hino over a couple of them--except Suter and maybe Gaudette. We also have a problem of roster slots with a lot of Meh. guys having a contract. Connelly being one. That may make Hagel a hard one to keel just to keep the amount of roster players down--especially if we can't re-home some guys, or Stqan is preferring guys with nebulous talent with the inability to bring it game-in/game out. Honestly, I'd be willing to do 2M for 2 or 2.5M for 1 for Hagel as long as Nylander and probably 1 or 2 other guys walk. I don't think it's too much for a bottom-6 anchor guy as long as term isn't there and it's a "okay kid, you had a good initial showing, now let's see how much you improve." I think a lot will also depend on who ends up staying and going this offseason. One guy will go to Seattle. There's rumors of Keith wanting an out. If more guys go or we manage to trade away Shaw or Seabs' contracts that's more money and roster slots free, and in my opinion it'll be harder and harder to justify not re-signing Hagel unless his asking price is over 2.5M and he won't budge. But I don't think there are many players who are looking for a new deal that have proven that they have more tangible value. Hagel gives it all on the ice. Nylander hasn't--any value he has is largely intangible. Not to mention he's the youngest of all of our FA's--there's a strong argument that Zadorov, Suter, Hino, and Kampf being on the other side of 25 are what they are at this point. Gaudette (24), Nylander (23), and Hagel (22) theoretically have more room to actually grow. At the start of the season the Hawks will 10+ mil more when Seabs and Shaw go on LTIR to add to the 6.2 they have now. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 12, 2021 13:07:08 GMT -6
The real question is "decent money"? Right now the 'hawks are going into next season with about 6.2M cap free. They have 10-12 FWDs signed (depending on whether or not Toews plays and if Seattle selects a FWD), 7 D-men signed (could be 6 if Seattle takes one), and 3 Goalies signed (could be 2 if Seattle takes one). We got 750k in dead cap thanks to Olli Maata, And right now Seabrook and Shaw are on the books, but likely LTIR'ed until the end of their deals. We also have to consider Nylander, who I'm sure others besides me would love to take a walk, might be resigned and take a chunk out of the remaining cap even though he's 10.02c as well. There are slots that Hagel could rightfully claim at FWD, over guys like Entwhistle and Hardman. If Zaddy is resigned again, that might take a chunk out. Hino, Suter, Gaudette, and Kampf are also looking to be re-signed; again, I think there's an argument of Hino over a couple of them--except Suter and maybe Gaudette. We also have a problem of roster slots with a lot of Meh. guys having a contract. Connelly being one. That may make Hagel a hard one to keel just to keep the amount of roster players down--especially if we can't re-home some guys, or Stqan is preferring guys with nebulous talent with the inability to bring it game-in/game out. Honestly, I'd be willing to do 2M for 2 or 2.5M for 1 for Hagel as long as Nylander and probably 1 or 2 other guys walk. I don't think it's too much for a bottom-6 anchor guy as long as term isn't there and it's a "okay kid, you had a good initial showing, now let's see how much you improve." I think a lot will also depend on who ends up staying and going this offseason. One guy will go to Seattle. There's rumors of Keith wanting an out. If more guys go or we manage to trade away Shaw or Seabs' contracts that's more money and roster slots free, and in my opinion it'll be harder and harder to justify not re-signing Hagel unless his asking price is over 2.5M and he won't budge. But I don't think there are many players who are looking for a new deal that have proven that they have more tangible value. Hagel gives it all on the ice. Nylander hasn't--any value he has is largely intangible. Not to mention he's the youngest of all of our FA's--there's a strong argument that Zadorov, Suter, Hino, and Kampf being on the other side of 25 are what they are at this point. Gaudette (24), Nylander (23), and Hagel (22) theoretically have more room to actually grow. At the start of the season the Hawks will 10+ mil more when Seabs and Shaw go on LTIR to add to the 6.2 they have now. If I'm not mistaken Seabs and Shaw have to be on the roster the 1st day of the season for Bowman the Beancounter to take advantage of the LTIR overage--based on the Accruable Cap Space Limit for training camp. If this is the case they could make moves after the season starts, but before that time Seabs and Shaw have to be taken into consideration. |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Jul 12, 2021 13:20:20 GMT -6
They could LITR one before season and one after 1st game if they want to correct?
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 12, 2021 14:36:38 GMT -6
They could LITR one before season and one after 1st game if they want to correct? If I'm reading that right, it depends on what the 'hawks are spending for the cap as of the 1st day of the season. So for training camp the ACSL is the team's cap space - the total LTIR cap hit. For the 'hawks that means Shaw+Seabrook is 10.775M, and with the cap ceiling being 81.5M, the 'hawks have a max ACLS limit of 70.725M. For the 1st day of the season, they need to be under that number in order to start accruing LTIR cap. The closer they are to that number without going over means the more LTIR cap they can accrue--so if they clean house and operate near the cap floor they accrue very little LTIR cap. If I understand the rules right, the relief pool for the 'hawks is no more than 10.775M, and that is used up in it's entirety if they start the season above the 70.725M, they can ONLY spend to the cap ceiling as if Seabs and Shaw weren't there (since they are semi-retired)*, and they accrue no extra cap. If they are below that number and accrue cap space, then the further the season goes along the more pro-rated cap they can accrue and thus be able to afford a player who's full season-long cap hit + all others - Seab and Shaw's is GREATER than the cap ceiling. Now, if the 'hawks didn't have them on LTIR the 1st day of the year, the ACSL is determined by the Cap Ceiling minus the team cap hit--so if the 'hawks do nothing according to CF Right now (which doesn't take into account the potential Keith trade) in terms of trades or signings, their projected cap hit is ~75.3M which would be their ACSL, which means if they LTIR Seabs and Shaw the 1st day of the season they'd be operating significantly under the ACSL vs if they had the ACSL if they were both on LTIR when the season started, and thus could accrue more cap than if they had them LTIR'ed at the start of the season. To answer your question though, the ACSL is higher if there are fewer players on LTIR when the season starts. This is where it gets murky for the 'hawks. Without Keith the 'hawks are probably going nowhere. That also means there's very little reason for the 'hawks to accrue cap unless they want to take a clunker of a deal in terms of low output/high AAV/short term from another team nearer the deadline in exchange for prospects and picks. However, This is something I could see happening because the 'hawks aren't going anywhere and their cupboards are bone dry. That being said it also wouldn't surprise me if the 'hawks completely punted this year and kept everything as-is and left them on LTIR when the season opens. * - Shaw and Seabs won't return, but if they would, the 'hawks would have to be under the cap ceiling + any accrued cap when they would theoretically have returned. For the 'hawks spending to the limit of the ceiling plus salary pool isn't a big issue. It's why we got lucky Kane didn't return until the playoffs. Vermette would have had us seriously over the cap. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 12, 2021 14:51:19 GMT -6
One thing to keep in mind. If the Hawks don’t play on day one of the season, the LTIR is all a moot point for that year. We seen that the first year with Hossa. The players on LTIR can be placed on LTIR on day 2 of the season. So if the Hawks don’t play on day one, they said players will be on the LTIR when they play. Schedule out yet???
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 12, 2021 15:08:41 GMT -6
One thing to keep in mind. If the Hawks don’t play on day one of the season, the LTIR is all a moot point for that year. We seen that the first year with Hossa. The players on LTIR can be placed on LTIR on day 2 of the season. So if the Hawks don’t play on day one, they said players will be on the LTIR when they play. Schedule out yet??? There is always that, however they still have to be cap-compliant on the 1st day of the season even if they don't play--so unless they are not looking to leverage LTIR like they have in the past, they can't spend into Seabs and Shaw's salary--that would force once of them on LTIR to be compliant and thus lowering the ACSL. Again...*IF* the 'hawks want to go the route of accruing cap space. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 12, 2021 16:23:57 GMT -6
One guy that wants out of Buffalo that the Hawks should target is Ristolainen, 1yr left at 5.4mill and he's just entering his prime, offer them Murphy and Boqvist or a forward. I'd like to see Hino back because he brings speed, energy, and some offense and can play on any line. And Hagel should be signed, let Kampf go and same with Nylander but that's not gonna happen. I agree with pretty much everything here. Murphy is ok, but I still feel he’s overpaid. He doesn’t bring that much night in and out. He’s a bottom pairing guy and at roughly 4 million, that’s too much. As for Ristolainen, when you think of it, is Jones that much better? I know Buffalo sucks, that’s not much of a hidden secret. But I look at Risto’s numbers and he’s had 4 years of 40+ points. Jones has 3, but has a 57 point season. Both on terrible teams last year and both obviously struggled. I’d have to think on a Hawks pp Risto would easily be back to the 45 point mark if not more. Jones would be very good too. However, I think re-signing Risto would be a lot easier and more than likely get him around 6 million per where as Jones probably wants 9. So it may not work out with Jones long term. As for Hino. I don’t mind him. But I think he’s more of a problem than helper. He’s probably not a playoff warrior we desire, he can help get you there, but I think it’ll end up not being what the Hawks need. Having Kane, Dcat and Hino I don’t think helps. Need size to go with the little ones. If he’s here, I won’t mind, but I think a better thought out plan should be in place. Scam brought Hino in a on weak attempt to make the playoffs and it failed. Plus there’s like 19 forwards that are looking at most 13 jobs. I don’t see a spot here. But if they ousted like 4-5 of those guys, then it gets easier to sign him!!! If the Hawks got rid of all the little guys,they wouldn't have a team and who are the playoff warriors on the roster. VH has twice the balls as most of the frail and weak kids we have and if 4gls/12pts in 17gms is a failure.......what's the rest of the squad? Don't get me wrong,I don't give AF what the team does any more but energy guys are needed here. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 12, 2021 16:30:34 GMT -6
I agree with pretty much everything here. Murphy is ok, but I still feel he’s overpaid. He doesn’t bring that much night in and out. He’s a bottom pairing guy and at roughly 4 million, that’s too much. As for Ristolainen, when you think of it, is Jones that much better? I know Buffalo sucks, that’s not much of a hidden secret. But I look at Risto’s numbers and he’s had 4 years of 40+ points. Jones has 3, but has a 57 point season. Both on terrible teams last year and both obviously struggled. I’d have to think on a Hawks pp Risto would easily be back to the 45 point mark if not more. Jones would be very good too. However, I think re-signing Risto would be a lot easier and more than likely get him around 6 million per where as Jones probably wants 9. So it may not work out with Jones long term. As for Hino. I don’t mind him. But I think he’s more of a problem than helper. He’s probably not a playoff warrior we desire, he can help get you there, but I think it’ll end up not being what the Hawks need. Having Kane, Dcat and Hino I don’t think helps. Need size to go with the little ones. If he’s here, I won’t mind, but I think a better thought out plan should be in place. Scam brought Hino in a on weak attempt to make the playoffs and it failed. Plus there’s like 19 forwards that are looking at most 13 jobs. I don’t see a spot here. But if they ousted like 4-5 of those guys, then it gets easier to sign him!!! If the Hawks got rid of all the little guys,they wouldn't have a team and who are the playoff warriors on the roster. VH has twice the balls as most of the frail and weak kids we have and if 4gls/12pts in 17gms is a failure.......what's the rest of the squad? Don't get me wrong,I don't give AF what the team does any more but energy guys are needed here. I’m in no way saying there’s other guys here better. I’m simply saying we need better guys here, better than VH. And I agree, I kinda don’t care much anymore. It’s hard to see the team dismantled year after year and nothing is ever done to correct it. Even with cap space the guy running the show is a bald Carney!!! |
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Post by tincup on Jul 12, 2021 19:03:49 GMT -6
One guy that wants out of Buffalo that the Hawks should target is Ristolainen, 1yr left at 5.4mill and he's just entering his prime, offer them Murphy and Boqvist or a forward. I'd like to see Hino back because he brings speed, energy, and some offense and can play on any line. And Hagel should be signed, let Kampf go and same with Nylander but that's not gonna happen. I was a huge fan of Risto upon a time. I still think in the right system, and getting out of Buffalo where he’s such a polarizing guy, would benefit him. But he had a rough season, he had a horrible Covid case, and struggled under Ralph Krueger’s system. But then all of Buffalo’s team suffered under Ralph. Makes me wonder how he’d do here. Most Buffalo fans seem to think he’s not an extremely high minute guy, unless he’s paired correctly. But man Risto is a gamer and a tough SOB, hits, blocks shots, call him a far more talented Zadorov. Too bad we couldn’t package the big Russian and some other assets out to Buffalo and rescue Risto. Then we wouldn’t have to sell the farm to get Seth Jones and could keep that 11th overall pick as well. |
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Post by Tater on Jul 12, 2021 23:17:36 GMT -6
I was a huge fan of Risto upon a time. I still think in the right system, and getting out of Buffalo where he’s such a polarizing guy, would benefit him. But he had a rough season, he had a horrible Covid case, and struggled under Ralph Krueger’s system. But then all of Buffalo’s team suffered under Ralph. Makes me wonder how he’d do here. Most Buffalo fans seem to think he’s not an extremely high minute guy, unless he’s paired correctly. But man Risto is a gamer and a tough SOB, hits, blocks shots, call him a far more talented Zadorov. Too bad we couldn’t package the big Russian and some other assets out to Buffalo and rescue Risto. Then we wouldn’t have to sell the farm to get Seth Jones and could keep that 11th overall pick as well. I like the cut of your jib.
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Post by tincup on Jul 13, 2021 9:12:17 GMT -6
Man, if we could get Krebs out of this….
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Post by jaty84 on Jul 13, 2021 9:28:33 GMT -6
Man, if we could get Krebs out of this…. Well, these days you have to be ready for any sort of news, but this one caught me off guard. However, would make sense. Although we don't need a veteran no. 1 goalie, he's got only 1 year left and should we get an interesting player or a high draft pick, could be a win win for both sides. |
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Post by tincup on Jul 13, 2021 9:50:47 GMT -6
Man, if we could get Krebs out of this…. Well, these days you have to be ready for any sort of news, but this one caught me off guard. However, would make sense. Although we don't need a veteran no. 1 goalie, he's got only 1 year left and should we get an interesting player or a high draft pick, could be a win win for both sides. I’m guessing Vegas wants to go after Eichel. Fleury would be a nice mentor for Lankinen and possibly a flip at the trade deadline. Plus I’m a big fan of Krebs, he’d instantly become our top prospect. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 13, 2021 12:07:50 GMT -6
Well, these days you have to be ready for any sort of news, but this one caught me off guard. However, would make sense. Although we don't need a veteran no. 1 goalie, he's got only 1 year left and should we get an interesting player or a high draft pick, could be a win win for both sides. I’m guessing Vegas wants to go after Eichel. Fleury would be a nice mentor for Lankinen and possibly a flip at the trade deadline. Plus I’m a big fan of Krebs, he’d instantly become our top prospect. True. Thing is I'd expect the resident beancounter to expect him to be the guy and take the lion's share of the work because we have no defense to speak of. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 13, 2021 16:47:58 GMT -6
I’m guessing Vegas wants to go after Eichel. Fleury would be a nice mentor for Lankinen and possibly a flip at the trade deadline. Plus I’m a big fan of Krebs, he’d instantly become our top prospect. True. Thing is I'd expect the resident beancounter to expect him to be the guy and take the lion's share of the work because we have no defense to speak of. yeah, if they trade for MAF, he is going to playing most nights... this is a trade I make if we get back a high pick and a prospect. sadly, I feel like this is a trade we make now cuz we are "going for it" again... this shit is really starting to piss me off, tbh. 3 summers ago, when we really needed to spend money to take one last run, we sat on our hands (and conveniently had an excuse to get rid of our coach shortly into the season). 2 summers ago, we suddenly decided "hey let's spend a bunch of money for the new guy". but then last summer: " ok, we're rebuilding now"... now we are going to go back to spending money again? pick a lane and stick to it... |
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Post by number9 on Jul 13, 2021 19:14:12 GMT -6
Trading for Fleury would be number 1 bullshit.
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 13, 2021 19:18:46 GMT -6
Trading for Fleury would be number 1 bullshit. Read somewhere that the Hawks could be a third party to take on Fleury’s salary. Kind of like how Detroit took on some Savard’s caphit for Tampa. Maybe the Pens or the Leafs get Fleury, Hawks use capspace and get a high draft pick |
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Post by number9 on Jul 13, 2021 19:34:28 GMT -6
Trading for Fleury would be number 1 bullshit. Read somewhere that the Hawks could be a third party to take on Fleury’s salary. Kind of like how Detroit took on some Savard’s caphit for Tampa. Maybe the Pens or the Leafs get Fleury, Hawks use capspace and get a high draft pick So then we're back to rebuilding again. Can we forget about Hamilton and Jones then? |
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 13, 2021 19:55:42 GMT -6
Read somewhere that the Hawks could be a third party to take on Fleury’s salary. Kind of like how Detroit took on some Savard’s caphit for Tampa. Maybe the Pens or the Leafs get Fleury, Hawks use capspace and get a high draft pick So then we're back to rebuilding again. Can we forget about Hamilton and Jones then? I dont know anymore. Last year there was a press release that its rebuilding and letting the kids play. Now, were tied to multiple rumors of multiple UFAs and older players that would take roster space. Either SB thinks the young guys arent ready and are not developing fast enough or a rebuild takes one year |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 13, 2021 20:55:41 GMT -6
Trading for Fleury would be number 1 bullshit. Read somewhere that the Hawks could be a third party to take on Fleury’s salary. Kind of like how Detroit took on some Savard’s caphit for Tampa. Maybe the Pens or the Leafs get Fleury, Hawks use capspace and get a high draft pick that would be the appropriate use of our cap space, imo. |
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Post by Tater on Jul 13, 2021 22:52:17 GMT -6
yeah, if they trade for MAF, he is going to playing most nights... this is a trade I make if we get back a high pick and a prospect. sadly, I feel like this is a trade we make now cuz we are "going for it" again... this shit is really starting to piss me off, tbh. 3 summers ago, when we really needed to spend money to take one last run, we sat on our hands (and conveniently had an excuse to get rid of our coach shortly into the season). 2 summers ago, we suddenly decided "hey let's spend a bunch of money for the new guy". but then last summer: " ok, we're rebuilding now"...
now we are going to go back to spending money again? pick a lane and stick to it... This sums up the last few years perfectly. If Rocky doesn't see it's time for major changes from the top down, things won't improve for a LONG time.
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 14, 2021 8:04:39 GMT -6
Read somewhere that the Hawks could be a third party to take on Fleury’s salary. Kind of like how Detroit took on some Savard’s caphit for Tampa. Maybe the Pens or the Leafs get Fleury, Hawks use capspace and get a high draft pick So then we're back to rebuilding again. Can we forget about Hamilton and Jones then? Playing devil's advocate...Even rebuilding teams are better with vet mentors for their developing youth than teams trying to get the youth to put it together on their own. While I don't think that Jones or Hamilton are good mentor pieces, it is disheartening that the 'hawks had some incredible mentoring talent in Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, and Hossa in the past few years that went to absolute waste because they were so focused on "win now" with those same guys when it was painfully obvious that they were not going to win, and never gave any of the youth a shot...instead the vets were driven into the ground. Truth be told I don't know what is really out there right now in terms of those kind of players, but if we could get someone in here, like what Sopel was to Hjammer, that might help Beaudin and Mitchel...maybe even Boqvist. |
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 14, 2021 8:11:26 GMT -6
So then we're back to rebuilding again. Can we forget about Hamilton and Jones then? Playing devil's advocate...Even rebuilding teams are better with vet mentors for their developing youth than teams trying to get the youth to put it together on their own. While I don't think that Jones or Hamilton are good mentor pieces, it is disheartening that the 'hawks had some incredible mentoring talent in Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, and Hossa in the past few years that went to absolute waste because they were so focused on "win now" with those same guys when it was painfully obvious that they were not going to win, and never gave any of the youth a shot...instead the vets were driven into the ground. Truth be told I don't know what is really out there right now in terms of those kind of players, but if we could get someone in here, like what Sopel was to Hjammer, that might help Beaudin and Mitchel...maybe even Boqvist. I actually would like to see them embrace a full rebuild. None of these Seth Jones, Hamilton or MAF talk. I thought the goalies last season did well without a vet. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 14, 2021 8:37:35 GMT -6
So then we're back to rebuilding again. Can we forget about Hamilton and Jones then? Playing devil's advocate...Even rebuilding teams are better with vet mentors for their developing youth than teams trying to get the youth to put it together on their own. While I don't think that Jones or Hamilton are good mentor pieces, it is disheartening that the 'hawks had some incredible mentoring talent in Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, and Hossa in the past few years that went to absolute waste because they were so focused on "win now" with those same guys when it was painfully obvious that they were not going to win, and never gave any of the youth a shot...instead the vets were driven into the ground. Truth be told I don't know what is really out there right now in terms of those kind of players, but if we could get someone in here, like what Sopel was to Hjammer, that might help Beaudin and Mitchel...maybe even Boqvist. My main concern is this. Many people, and I mean many see kids coming in and ASSume that because they’re young that they’re gonna be great. That’s not the case. It rarely happens. Keith is someone that happens once every 50 years. A small kid drafted in the 2nd round. No one thought he’d ever be a difference maker. He wasn’t very good his first couple years. But he showed enough to stick around on a rebuilding team. Now he’s a first ballot hall of famer. Those stories don’t happen all the time. So to get the Makar’s, Heiskanen, Hughes etc. Gotta get high draft picks. And to the people that think winning an extra game or two at the end of a shitty season doesn’t matter. Well it did for the Hawks. Hughes was picked in front of Boqvist and that one draft slot cost us one of the games best young players. One gawd dam spot. Anyways. I don’t think Keith is the guy to teach the young kids. I think he’s a great warrior who wants to compete and not just be a mentor. Not every vet is great with the kids. I honestly don’t think Toews and Kane are all that great with them either. They’re still in win now mode, and probably will be the rest of their careers. Whether we like it not, but a guy like Aucoin or Brookbank seem to be guys that’ll take kids under their wing and show them how to be an NHL player on and off the ice. I’m quoting Shane O’Brien here. He said “I used to try and chirp Toews in the playoffs. All I would say to him was….. Johnny why don’t you come out for a Fucking beer after the game? Loosen up you dick”. And Toews comment was “O.B. You’re nothing but a fuckin cancer to your team and room, that’s why you guys will never win”. So my point is. Toews and Kane probably won’t be out partying with the young kids and showing them the ropes. When to call it quits on an evening etc. And you need vets that’ll get that done for the kids. So unless something magical happens. It’s probably best for all to move on and try this thing again!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 14, 2021 8:50:39 GMT -6
So then we're back to rebuilding again. Can we forget about Hamilton and Jones then? Playing devil's advocate...Even rebuilding teams are better with vet mentors for their developing youth than teams trying to get the youth to put it together on their own. While I don't think that Jones or Hamilton are good mentor pieces, it is disheartening that the 'hawks had some incredible mentoring talent in Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, and Hossa in the past few years that went to absolute waste because they were so focused on "win now" with those same guys when it was painfully obvious that they were not going to win, and never gave any of the youth a shot...instead the vets were driven into the ground. Truth be told I don't know what is really out there right now in terms of those kind of players, but if we could get someone in here, like what Sopel was to Hjammer, that might help Beaudin and Mitchel...maybe even Boqvist. Crawford said he woulda stayed if the Hawks offer was a two year and the team said it was a 3.5M offer,maybe he goes for 3M if he got the 2nd year. I know about his health issues but his last year here was a healthy one and I highly doubt he even entertains retirement if he stayed. He seems like a good mentor and ALL of his GT teammates had great things to say about him and he coulda took some of the tougher starts last year and gave Lanks a great vet tender to talk with and compete with. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 14, 2021 9:08:01 GMT -6
Playing devil's advocate...Even rebuilding teams are better with vet mentors for their developing youth than teams trying to get the youth to put it together on their own. While I don't think that Jones or Hamilton are good mentor pieces, it is disheartening that the 'hawks had some incredible mentoring talent in Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, and Hossa in the past few years that went to absolute waste because they were so focused on "win now" with those same guys when it was painfully obvious that they were not going to win, and never gave any of the youth a shot...instead the vets were driven into the ground. Truth be told I don't know what is really out there right now in terms of those kind of players, but if we could get someone in here, like what Sopel was to Hjammer, that might help Beaudin and Mitchel...maybe even Boqvist. My main concern is this. Many people, and I mean many see kids coming in and ASSume that because they’re young that they’re gonna be great. That’s not the case. It rarely happens. Keith is someone that happens once every 50 years. A small kid drafted in the 2nd round. No one thought he’d ever be a difference maker. He wasn’t very good his first couple years. But he showed enough to stick around on a rebuilding team. Now he’s a first ballot hall of famer. Those stories don’t happen all the time. So to get the Makar’s, Heiskanen, Hughes etc. Gotta get high draft picks. And to the people that think winning an extra game or two at the end of a shitty season doesn’t matter. Well it did for the Hawks. Hughes was picked in front of Boqvist and that one draft slot cost us one of the games best young players. One gawd dam spot. Anyways. I don’t think Keith is the guy to teach the young kids. I think he’s a great warrior who wants to compete and not just be a mentor. Not every vet is great with the kids. I honestly don’t think Toews and Kane are all that great with them either. They’re still in win now mode, and probably will be the rest of their careers. Whether we like it not, but a guy like Aucoin or Brookbank seem to be guys that’ll take kids under their wing and show them how to be an NHL player on and off the ice. I’m quoting Shane O’Brien here. He said “I used to try and chirp Toews in the playoffs. All I would say to him was….. Johnny why don’t you come out for a Fucking beer after the game? Loosen up you dick”. And Toews comment was “O.B. You’re nothing but a fuckin cancer to your team and room, that’s why you guys will never win”. So my point is. Toews and Kane probably won’t be out partying with the young kids and showing them the ropes. When to call it quits on an evening etc. And you need vets that’ll get that done for the kids. So unless something magical happens. It’s probably best for all to move on and try this thing again!!! Kane,Toews and Keith are terrible mentors because they ain't out getting drunk with kids 10+ years younger than them,I can personally do without more limo pics to be honest. Kane has spent entire summers practicing with young Hawk players,he was excited skating with D-Cat and Strome a few summers ago only to never see the line combo the following year. Seabrook moved Kirby Dach into his F'n home. Keith has spent a LOT of shifts with different rookies the last few years and those rookies usually had good things to say Jonathan Toews.........FUCK Shane O'Brian is all I'll say about that quote...........cancer to your team and your room.....LOFL! |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Jul 14, 2021 10:01:37 GMT -6
Gotta disagree with you there T. I understand what you are saying about #2 he is all business. But 88 is fantastic with the kids. Also Johnny has been pretty good with the kids
Abusing them in practice is also a good way to show them they were out to late the night before. I know this is a train wreak, but 19 calling out the kids from day one will only help.
We might be writing off next year but i guarantee #19 is not and thats a heck of a teaching tool.
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