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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 14, 2021 10:18:19 GMT -6
yeah, if they trade for MAF, he is going to playing most nights... this is a trade I make if we get back a high pick and a prospect. sadly, I feel like this is a trade we make now cuz we are "going for it" again... this shit is really starting to piss me off, tbh. 3 summers ago, when we really needed to spend money to take one last run, we sat on our hands (and conveniently had an excuse to get rid of our coach shortly into the season). 2 summers ago, we suddenly decided "hey let's spend a bunch of money for the new guy". but then last summer: " ok, we're rebuilding now"...
now we are going to go back to spending money again? pick a lane and stick to it... This sums up the last few years perfectly. If Rocky doesn't see it's time for major changes from the top down, things won't improve for a LONG time.
Haven't they started already? First was removing McDonuts, then removed himself. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 14, 2021 16:33:52 GMT -6
Playing devil's advocate...Even rebuilding teams are better with vet mentors for their developing youth than teams trying to get the youth to put it together on their own. While I don't think that Jones or Hamilton are good mentor pieces, it is disheartening that the 'hawks had some incredible mentoring talent in Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, and Hossa in the past few years that went to absolute waste because they were so focused on "win now" with those same guys when it was painfully obvious that they were not going to win, and never gave any of the youth a shot...instead the vets were driven into the ground. Truth be told I don't know what is really out there right now in terms of those kind of players, but if we could get someone in here, like what Sopel was to Hjammer, that might help Beaudin and Mitchel...maybe even Boqvist. I actually would like to see them embrace a full rebuild. None of these Seth Jones, Hamilton or MAF talk. I thought the goalies last season did well without a vet. Ehh...the netminder's did okay in my opinion. Lankinen posted a .909 and Subban posted a .900. Compare/contrast to Neili's .912 and Crawford's .917. Crawford even saw more shots his 1st full year so it's not like Crawford or Lankinen's number's are askew by lack of shots--both saw over 1200. I think some of Subban/Lankinen's numbers took a drop because of the atrocious D, but on the other hand I don't think .008 or .012 drop-off can be attributed in the entirety to the team in front of them. That being said, I think Lankinen needs more of a look. Subban I can take or leave since his career seems to be looking like Cam Ward's numbers...he's the type of G that would do well behind a stalwart D--and the 'hawks ain't got it. IMHO, Lanks could use a Turco/Emery backing him up in my opinion. I think those two worked wonders for Dr. Craw early on...and both were cheap. I don't think players of that ilk really block young guys from the ice, and are replaceable. Same with other positions--like Sopel. Jones, Hamilton, and MAF look sexy to the (uneducated) fans, but unless they are used to let the kids grow and not pushed into full-time workload, it's not helping the team move forward. But a team of all youth--especially behind the bench? That would make the development last longer than it needs to be. Playing devil's advocate...Even rebuilding teams are better with vet mentors for their developing youth than teams trying to get the youth to put it together on their own. While I don't think that Jones or Hamilton are good mentor pieces, it is disheartening that the 'hawks had some incredible mentoring talent in Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, and Hossa in the past few years that went to absolute waste because they were so focused on "win now" with those same guys when it was painfully obvious that they were not going to win, and never gave any of the youth a shot...instead the vets were driven into the ground. Truth be told I don't know what is really out there right now in terms of those kind of players, but if we could get someone in here, like what Sopel was to Hjammer, that might help Beaudin and Mitchel...maybe even Boqvist. My main concern is this. Many people, and I mean many see kids coming in and ASSume that because they’re young that they’re gonna be great. That’s not the case. It rarely happens. Keith is someone that happens once every 50 years. A small kid drafted in the 2nd round. No one thought he’d ever be a difference maker. He wasn’t very good his first couple years. But he showed enough to stick around on a rebuilding team. Now he’s a first ballot hall of famer. Those stories don’t happen all the time. So to get the Makar’s, Heiskanen, Hughes etc. Gotta get high draft picks. And to the people that think winning an extra game or two at the end of a shitty season doesn’t matter. Well it did for the Hawks. Hughes was picked in front of Boqvist and that one draft slot cost us one of the games best young players. One gawd dam spot. Anyways. I don’t think Keith is the guy to teach the young kids. I think he’s a great warrior who wants to compete and not just be a mentor. Not every vet is great with the kids. I honestly don’t think Toews and Kane are all that great with them either. They’re still in win now mode, and probably will be the rest of their careers. Whether we like it not, but a guy like Aucoin or Brookbank seem to be guys that’ll take kids under their wing and show them how to be an NHL player on and off the ice. I’m quoting Shane O’Brien here. He said “I used to try and chirp Toews in the playoffs. All I would say to him was….. Johnny why don’t you come out for a Fucking beer after the game? Loosen up you dick”. And Toews comment was “O.B. You’re nothing but a fuckin cancer to your team and room, that’s why you guys will never win”. So my point is. Toews and Kane probably won’t be out partying with the young kids and showing them the ropes. When to call it quits on an evening etc. And you need vets that’ll get that done for the kids. So unless something magical happens. It’s probably best for all to move on and try this thing again!!! Keep in mind even Keith/Seabrook had mentors when they broke into the league. Ditto with Toews and Kane. IMHO Seabrook would've been a good mentor, and maybe even Toews. Keith/Kane I agree are more, "watch what I do" mentality and not so much take the time to bring the guys along--and it's not like Madden didn't do the limo ride.  . Hossa could have done wonders for guys (especially El Gato based on last year). My point was going into next year with what we got might slow development down even more without guys like Sopel. Sopel ain't going to win you a cup or raise you much in the standings, but how he brought along Hjammer's game was priceless. We don't have guys like that on our club now...unfortunately. Playing devil's advocate...Even rebuilding teams are better with vet mentors for their developing youth than teams trying to get the youth to put it together on their own. While I don't think that Jones or Hamilton are good mentor pieces, it is disheartening that the 'hawks had some incredible mentoring talent in Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, and Hossa in the past few years that went to absolute waste because they were so focused on "win now" with those same guys when it was painfully obvious that they were not going to win, and never gave any of the youth a shot...instead the vets were driven into the ground. Truth be told I don't know what is really out there right now in terms of those kind of players, but if we could get someone in here, like what Sopel was to Hjammer, that might help Beaudin and Mitchel...maybe even Boqvist. Crawford said he woulda stayed if the Hawks offer was a two year and the team said it was a 3.5M offer,maybe he goes for 3M if he got the 2nd year. I know about his health issues but his last year here was a healthy one and I highly doubt he even entertains retirement if he stayed. He seems like a good mentor and ALL of his GT teammates had great things to say about him and he coulda took some of the tougher starts last year and gave Lanks a great vet tender to talk with and compete with. I agree on Dr. Craw; I think if the 'hawks would have done him 3 for 2 or 2 for 3 it would have been fair and just and enough to cycle him slowly out while giving the young guys--especially Lankinen, his shot. Crawford did well as a mentor to Darling and really seemed like he was excited whenever Darling, Raanta, and Delia won one. Plus, looking back on this year when the team D took a giant liquid shit all over center ice, it would have been nice to get a seasoned vet in there who could ask 12 FWDs and all 6 D-men what the smeg they were thinking and be taken seriously. But again, playing the 'what if?' game... If Crawford did get re-signed, it's possible he might have hung them up. If he didn't what's to say he's not run roughshod and Subban get a small cut of the starts--and Lankinen doesn't see NHL ice? Or again, let's say Lankinen comes in instead of Subban and again, Crawford's seeing the lion's share of the starts because the team D sucks like Pamela Anderson at a Motel 6, and they can't 'trust' Lankinen to take over. I think it's better for all involved in any position if there is an mentor-type player there who can handle anything the player in question can't, but with the understanding that the mentor-player cannot take over for the youngin' unless the youngin' simply can't do it...and then back to the drawing board. Right now we don't have many of those players. I think we could get someone to do that cheaply and not block the slot from a rookie. |
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 14, 2021 17:01:44 GMT -6
I actually would like to see them embrace a full rebuild. None of these Seth Jones, Hamilton or MAF talk. I thought the goalies last season did well without a vet. Ehh...the netminder's did okay in my opinion. Lankinen posted a .909 and Subban posted a .900. Compare/contrast to Neili's .912 and Crawford's .917. Crawford even saw more shots his 1st full year so it's not like Crawford or Lankinen's number's are askew by lack of shots--both saw over 1200. I think some of Subban/Lankinen's numbers took a drop because of the atrocious D, but on the other hand I don't think .008 or .012 drop-off can be attributed in the entirety to the team in front of them. That being said, I think Lankinen needs more of a look. Subban I can take or leave since his career seems to be looking like Cam Ward's numbers...he's the type of G that would do well behind a stalwart D--and the 'hawks ain't got it. IMHO, Lanks could use a Turco/Emery backing him up in my opinion. I think those two worked wonders for Dr. Craw early on...and both were cheap. I don't think players of that ilk really block young guys from the ice, and are replaceable. Same with other positions--like Sopel. Jones, Hamilton, and MAF look sexy to the (uneducated) fans, but unless they are used to let the kids grow and not pushed into full-time workload, it's not helping the team move forward. But a team of all youth--especially behind the bench? That would make the development last longer than it needs to be. My main concern is this. Many people, and I mean many see kids coming in and ASSume that because they’re young that they’re gonna be great. That’s not the case. It rarely happens. Keith is someone that happens once every 50 years. A small kid drafted in the 2nd round. No one thought he’d ever be a difference maker. He wasn’t very good his first couple years. But he showed enough to stick around on a rebuilding team. Now he’s a first ballot hall of famer. Those stories don’t happen all the time. So to get the Makar’s, Heiskanen, Hughes etc. Gotta get high draft picks. And to the people that think winning an extra game or two at the end of a shitty season doesn’t matter. Well it did for the Hawks. Hughes was picked in front of Boqvist and that one draft slot cost us one of the games best young players. One gawd dam spot. Anyways. I don’t think Keith is the guy to teach the young kids. I think he’s a great warrior who wants to compete and not just be a mentor. Not every vet is great with the kids. I honestly don’t think Toews and Kane are all that great with them either. They’re still in win now mode, and probably will be the rest of their careers. Whether we like it not, but a guy like Aucoin or Brookbank seem to be guys that’ll take kids under their wing and show them how to be an NHL player on and off the ice. I’m quoting Shane O’Brien here. He said “I used to try and chirp Toews in the playoffs. All I would say to him was….. Johnny why don’t you come out for a Fucking beer after the game? Loosen up you dick”. And Toews comment was “O.B. You’re nothing but a fuckin cancer to your team and room, that’s why you guys will never win”. So my point is. Toews and Kane probably won’t be out partying with the young kids and showing them the ropes. When to call it quits on an evening etc. And you need vets that’ll get that done for the kids. So unless something magical happens. It’s probably best for all to move on and try this thing again!!! Keep in mind even Keith/Seabrook had mentors when they broke into the league. Ditto with Toews and Kane. IMHO Seabrook would've been a good mentor, and maybe even Toews. Keith/Kane I agree are more, "watch what I do" mentality and not so much take the time to bring the guys along--and it's not like Madden didn't do the limo ride. . Hossa could have done wonders for guys (especially El Gato based on last year). My point was going into next year with what we got might slow development down even more without guys like Sopel. Sopel ain't going to win you a cup or raise you much in the standings, but how he brought along Hjammer's game was priceless. We don't have guys like that on our club now...unfortunately. Crawford said he woulda stayed if the Hawks offer was a two year and the team said it was a 3.5M offer,maybe he goes for 3M if he got the 2nd year. I know about his health issues but his last year here was a healthy one and I highly doubt he even entertains retirement if he stayed. He seems like a good mentor and ALL of his GT teammates had great things to say about him and he coulda took some of the tougher starts last year and gave Lanks a great vet tender to talk with and compete with. I agree on Dr. Craw; I think if the 'hawks would have done him 3 for 2 or 2 for 3 it would have been fair and just and enough to cycle him slowly out while giving the young guys--especially Lankinen, his shot. Crawford did well as a mentor to Darling and really seemed like he was excited whenever Darling, Raanta, and Delia won one. Plus, looking back on this year when the team D took a giant liquid shit all over center ice, it would have been nice to get a seasoned vet in there who could ask 12 FWDs and all 6 D-men what the smeg they were thinking and be taken seriously. But again, playing the 'what if?' game... If Crawford did get re-signed, it's possible he might have hung them up. If he didn't what's to say he's not run roughshod and Subban get a small cut of the starts--and Lankinen doesn't see NHL ice? Or again, let's say Lankinen comes in instead of Subban and again, Crawford's seeing the lion's share of the starts because the team D sucks like Pamela Anderson at a Motel 6, and they can't 'trust' Lankinen to take over. I think it's better for all involved in any position if there is an mentor-type player there who can handle anything the player in question can't, but with the understanding that the mentor-player cannot take over for the youngin' unless the youngin' simply can't do it...and then back to the drawing board. Right now we don't have many of those players. I think we could get someone to do that cheaply and not block the slot from a rookie. You keep mentioning Sopel as a sample mentor. What about Hammer? Hes UFA, could be a good mentor. Might be had for a mil or two, even if its just for nostalgic window dressing or final skate with the Hawks. Your CC story is why i dont like MAF coming here. Theyve already said that theyre going to stick with the young goalies in rotation and let CC walk. Now they want MAF as a mentor? |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Jul 14, 2021 17:04:52 GMT -6
You can say Sopel was helpful. More helpful was Kitchen and Q coaching him. Dehann I think has been a good mentor. I will be using that P.A. at motel 6 thanks for that one.
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Post by tincup on Jul 14, 2021 19:43:46 GMT -6
Ehh...the netminder's did okay in my opinion. Lankinen posted a .909 and Subban posted a .900. Compare/contrast to Neili's .912 and Crawford's .917. Crawford even saw more shots his 1st full year so it's not like Crawford or Lankinen's number's are askew by lack of shots--both saw over 1200. I think some of Subban/Lankinen's numbers took a drop because of the atrocious D, but on the other hand I don't think .008 or .012 drop-off can be attributed in the entirety to the team in front of them. That being said, I think Lankinen needs more of a look. Subban I can take or leave since his career seems to be looking like Cam Ward's numbers...he's the type of G that would do well behind a stalwart D--and the 'hawks ain't got it. IMHO, Lanks could use a Turco/Emery backing him up in my opinion. I think those two worked wonders for Dr. Craw early on...and both were cheap. I don't think players of that ilk really block young guys from the ice, and are replaceable. Same with other positions--like Sopel. Jones, Hamilton, and MAF look sexy to the (uneducated) fans, but unless they are used to let the kids grow and not pushed into full-time workload, it's not helping the team move forward. But a team of all youth--especially behind the bench? That would make the development last longer than it needs to be. Keep in mind even Keith/Seabrook had mentors when they broke into the league. Ditto with Toews and Kane. IMHO Seabrook would've been a good mentor, and maybe even Toews. Keith/Kane I agree are more, "watch what I do" mentality and not so much take the time to bring the guys along--and it's not like Madden didn't do the limo ride. . Hossa could have done wonders for guys (especially El Gato based on last year). My point was going into next year with what we got might slow development down even more without guys like Sopel. Sopel ain't going to win you a cup or raise you much in the standings, but how he brought along Hjammer's game was priceless. We don't have guys like that on our club now...unfortunately. I agree on Dr. Craw; I think if the 'hawks would have done him 3 for 2 or 2 for 3 it would have been fair and just and enough to cycle him slowly out while giving the young guys--especially Lankinen, his shot. Crawford did well as a mentor to Darling and really seemed like he was excited whenever Darling, Raanta, and Delia won one. Plus, looking back on this year when the team D took a giant liquid shit all over center ice, it would have been nice to get a seasoned vet in there who could ask 12 FWDs and all 6 D-men what the smeg they were thinking and be taken seriously. But again, playing the 'what if?' game... If Crawford did get re-signed, it's possible he might have hung them up. If he didn't what's to say he's not run roughshod and Subban get a small cut of the starts--and Lankinen doesn't see NHL ice? Or again, let's say Lankinen comes in instead of Subban and again, Crawford's seeing the lion's share of the starts because the team D sucks like Pamela Anderson at a Motel 6, and they can't 'trust' Lankinen to take over. I think it's better for all involved in any position if there is an mentor-type player there who can handle anything the player in question can't, but with the understanding that the mentor-player cannot take over for the youngin' unless the youngin' simply can't do it...and then back to the drawing board. Right now we don't have many of those players. I think we could get someone to do that cheaply and not block the slot from a rookie. You keep mentioning Sopel as a sample mentor. What about Hammer? Hes UFA, could be a good mentor. Might be had for a mil or two, even if its just for nostalgic window dressing or final skate with the Hawks. Your CC story is why i dont like MAF coming here. Theyve already said that theyre going to stick with the young goalies in rotation and let CC walk. Now they want MAF as a mentor? Ignore the mentorship role for MAF, but if Vegas is willing to give up a top prospect like Krebs for dumping the last year of that contract, i’d mull it over. But it would have to be along those lines. If MAF platoons with Lankinen, I don’t think that’s all that bad. We need to deepen our prospect pool with quality and a guy like Krebs is ready now. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 14, 2021 21:07:51 GMT -6
Instead of quoting Squishy and having to edit out a lot, I'll just say I was thinking without Keith gone the D have zero Cup winners now, then Hjalmarsson came to mind.
Get him back and move de Haan or make a deal with Seattle to take him, but his 4+mill needs to go.
But I disagree about Crow not being signed because they're going with youth and now going after MAF as a mentor contradicts what they said last off season.
They did it for a season and probably realized they need one experienced goalie, either as a starter or backup.
If they get Krebs to unload MAFs contract that'll be a big plus on offense and in net.
And it might be a reason they move Dach to get Seth Jones. But no way would I include Debrincat or the 11th.
Jones, Krebs, MAF, and a Hawks legend Hjalmarsson to mentor in the twilight of his career, looks good to me.
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 14, 2021 21:52:37 GMT -6
You keep mentioning Sopel as a sample mentor. What about Hammer? Hes UFA, could be a good mentor. Might be had for a mil or two, even if its just for nostalgic window dressing or final skate with the Hawks. Your CC story is why i dont like MAF coming here. Theyve already said that theyre going to stick with the young goalies in rotation and let CC walk. Now they want MAF as a mentor? Ignore the mentorship role for MAF, but if Vegas is willing to give up a top prospect like Krebs for dumping the last year of that contract, i’d mull it over. But it would have to be along those lines. If MAF platoons with Lankinen, I don’t think that’s all that bad. We need to deepen our prospect pool with quality and a guy like Krebs is ready now. (Answering oldtimehawky as well) I doubt you get Krebs with MAF, but if it happens that would be good. I still dont think getting a vet goalie would help. It will just move every goalie in the roster down a notch, especially if its MAF. Or are we giving up on Subban already? |
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Post by tincup on Jul 14, 2021 22:01:05 GMT -6
Instead of quoting Squishy and having to edit out a lot, I'll just say I was thinking without Keith gone the D have zero Cup winners now, then Hjalmarsson came to mind. Get him back and move de Haan or make a deal with Seattle to take him, but his 4+mill needs to go. But I disagree about Crow not being signed because they're going with youth and now going after MAF as a mentor contradicts what they said last off season. They did it for a season and probably realized they need one experienced goalie, either as a starter or backup. If they get Krebs to unload MAFs contract that'll be a big plus on offense and in net. And it might be a reason they move Dach to get Seth Jones. But no way would I include Debrincat or the 11th. Jones, Krebs, MAF, and a Hawks legend Hjalmarsson to mentor in the twilight of his career, looks good to me. I’m still reluctant moving out a piece like Dach. This year should tell the tale about him. I expect a nice jump in production. I don’t mind adding Hjalmarrsson (health permitting) to to fill the veteran spot if you could move out deHaan’s contract but I’m not sure Jones wants to sign an extension with anyone that trades for him. Might be better to pursue him or Ristolainen next year if they both test the UFA waters. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 14, 2021 22:30:25 GMT -6
Ignore the mentorship role for MAF, but if Vegas is willing to give up a top prospect like Krebs for dumping the last year of that contract, i’d mull it over. But it would have to be along those lines. If MAF platoons with Lankinen, I don’t think that’s all that bad. We need to deepen our prospect pool with quality and a guy like Krebs is ready now. (Answering oldtimehawky as well) I doubt you get Krebs with MAF, but if it happens that would be good. I still dont think getting a vet goalie would help. It will just move every goalie in the roster down a notch, especially if its MAF. Or are we giving up on Subban already? I agree on the unlikely acquisition of Krebs as well. isn't he a center? the Knights need those badly. he is their #1 prospect. that would like us trading Keith with Dach. no way they'll do that. |
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Post by tincup on Jul 14, 2021 22:41:56 GMT -6
Ignore the mentorship role for MAF, but if Vegas is willing to give up a top prospect like Krebs for dumping the last year of that contract, i’d mull it over. But it would have to be along those lines. If MAF platoons with Lankinen, I don’t think that’s all that bad. We need to deepen our prospect pool with quality and a guy like Krebs is ready now. (Answering oldtimehawky as well) I doubt you get Krebs with MAF, but if it happens that would be good. I still dont think getting a vet goalie would help. It will just move every goalie in the roster down a notch, especially if its MAF. Or are we giving up on Subban already? I don’t know, getting the Vezina goalie can’t hurt. And I suppose that matters if we feel there are any real long term options in goal. I think Lankinen is the closest we have at the moment. But Vegas was willing to give up Nick Suzuki and extras for Pacioretty. If Vegas frees up enough money to enable them to get a better player in Jack Eichel they might be willing to part with a prospect like Krebs. Maybe Subban goes back to Vegas in the deal. He still looks to be a credible backup. |
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Post by tincup on Jul 14, 2021 22:59:59 GMT -6
(Answering oldtimehawky as well) I doubt you get Krebs with MAF, but if it happens that would be good. I still dont think getting a vet goalie would help. It will just move every goalie in the roster down a notch, especially if its MAF. Or are we giving up on Subban already? I agree on the unlikely acquisition of Krebs as well. isn't he a center? the Knights need those badly. he is their #1 prospect. that would like us trading Keith with Dach. no way they'll do that. Ok, I’ll take Dorofeyev if I have to. The difference between the Keith trade and Vegas is that Chicago didn’t have to make the trade but Vegas wants to win now and they have cap problems if they’re looking to add scoring. Can’t see them wanting $12 million tied up in goalies again. Maybe there’s a way for a three way deal in there with either Pittsburgh, where Fleury would like to go, or maybe with Buffalo, maybe getting some prospects for eating up some contract. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 14, 2021 23:31:02 GMT -6
I agree on the unlikely acquisition of Krebs as well. isn't he a center? the Knights need those badly. he is their #1 prospect. that would like us trading Keith with Dach. no way they'll do that. Ok, I’ll take Dorofeyev if I have to. The difference between the Keith trade and Vegas is that Chicago didn’t have to make the trade but Vegas wants to win now and they have cap problems if they’re looking to add scoring. Can’t see them wanting $12 million tied up in goalies again. Maybe there’s a way for a three way deal in there with either Pittsburgh, where Fleury would like to go, or maybe with Buffalo, maybe getting some prospects for eating up some contract. trades that get us more draft picks or higher level prospects are a-ok with me. I just don't see any way Vegas gives up Krebs. he is probably on the team there this next season, imo. |
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Post by Tater on Jul 14, 2021 23:46:45 GMT -6
Keep in mind even Keith/Seabrook had mentors when they broke into the league. Ditto with Toews and Kane. IMHO Seabrook would've been a good mentor, and maybe even Toews. Keith/Kane I agree are more, "watch what I do" mentality and not so much take the time to bring the guys along--and it's not like Madden didn't do the limo ride. . Hossa could have done wonders for guys (especially El Gato based on last year). Great post, all of it. As for Hoss, I was really hoping he would be back with the team in some role. But man, he owns a golf course in his home country and has young kids. I doubt he leaves that. It's a shame, I think he'd a great influence.
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Post by tincup on Jul 15, 2021 0:03:19 GMT -6
Ok, I’ll take Dorofeyev if I have to. The difference between the Keith trade and Vegas is that Chicago didn’t have to make the trade but Vegas wants to win now and they have cap problems if they’re looking to add scoring. Can’t see them wanting $12 million tied up in goalies again. Maybe there’s a way for a three way deal in there with either Pittsburgh, where Fleury would like to go, or maybe with Buffalo, maybe getting some prospects for eating up some contract. trades that get us more draft picks or higher level prospects are a-ok with me. I just don't see any way Vegas gives up Krebs. he is probably on the team there this next season, imo. You’re right. I’m just crushing on Krebs . But if Vegas is serious about adding scoring in Eichel, the cost to them in players is going to be really high. I’m just spitballing on how we could fit in there. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 15, 2021 6:41:26 GMT -6
trades that get us more draft picks or higher level prospects are a-ok with me. I just don't see any way Vegas gives up Krebs. he is probably on the team there this next season, imo. You’re right. I’m just crushing on Krebs . But if Vegas is serious about adding scoring in Eichel, the cost to them in players is going to be really high. I’m just spitballing on how we could fit in there. One thing for sure is, if Vegas is in on Eichel, Krebs would be headed to Buffalo not Chicago. So I think getting Krebs from there is almost impossible. I think the Hawks can get a couple decent picks and a lower level prospect to take on MAF or less if the Hawks just retain salary and ship him elsewhere!!! |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 15, 2021 6:57:30 GMT -6
Keep in mind even Keith/Seabrook had mentors when they broke into the league. Ditto with Toews and Kane. IMHO Seabrook would've been a good mentor, and maybe even Toews. Keith/Kane I agree are more, "watch what I do" mentality and not so much take the time to bring the guys along--and it's not like Madden didn't do the limo ride. . Hossa could have done wonders for guys (especially El Gato based on last year). Great post, all of it. As for Hoss, I was really hoping he would be back with the team in some role. But man, he owns a golf course in his home country and has young kids. I doubt he leaves that. It's a shame, I think he'd a great influence.
Hossa will most likely be our Slovakian regional scout. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 15, 2021 8:29:38 GMT -6
Ehh...the netminder's did okay in my opinion. Lankinen posted a .909 and Subban posted a .900. Compare/contrast to Neili's .912 and Crawford's .917. Crawford even saw more shots his 1st full year so it's not like Crawford or Lankinen's number's are askew by lack of shots--both saw over 1200. I think some of Subban/Lankinen's numbers took a drop because of the atrocious D, but on the other hand I don't think .008 or .012 drop-off can be attributed in the entirety to the team in front of them. That being said, I think Lankinen needs more of a look. Subban I can take or leave since his career seems to be looking like Cam Ward's numbers...he's the type of G that would do well behind a stalwart D--and the 'hawks ain't got it. IMHO, Lanks could use a Turco/Emery backing him up in my opinion. I think those two worked wonders for Dr. Craw early on...and both were cheap. I don't think players of that ilk really block young guys from the ice, and are replaceable. Same with other positions--like Sopel. Jones, Hamilton, and MAF look sexy to the (uneducated) fans, but unless they are used to let the kids grow and not pushed into full-time workload, it's not helping the team move forward. But a team of all youth--especially behind the bench? That would make the development last longer than it needs to be. Keep in mind even Keith/Seabrook had mentors when they broke into the league. Ditto with Toews and Kane. IMHO Seabrook would've been a good mentor, and maybe even Toews. Keith/Kane I agree are more, "watch what I do" mentality and not so much take the time to bring the guys along--and it's not like Madden didn't do the limo ride. . Hossa could have done wonders for guys (especially El Gato based on last year). My point was going into next year with what we got might slow development down even more without guys like Sopel. Sopel ain't going to win you a cup or raise you much in the standings, but how he brought along Hjammer's game was priceless. We don't have guys like that on our club now...unfortunately. I agree on Dr. Craw; I think if the 'hawks would have done him 3 for 2 or 2 for 3 it would have been fair and just and enough to cycle him slowly out while giving the young guys--especially Lankinen, his shot. Crawford did well as a mentor to Darling and really seemed like he was excited whenever Darling, Raanta, and Delia won one. Plus, looking back on this year when the team D took a giant liquid shit all over center ice, it would have been nice to get a seasoned vet in there who could ask 12 FWDs and all 6 D-men what the smeg they were thinking and be taken seriously. But again, playing the 'what if?' game... If Crawford did get re-signed, it's possible he might have hung them up. If he didn't what's to say he's not run roughshod and Subban get a small cut of the starts--and Lankinen doesn't see NHL ice? Or again, let's say Lankinen comes in instead of Subban and again, Crawford's seeing the lion's share of the starts because the team D sucks like Pamela Anderson at a Motel 6, and they can't 'trust' Lankinen to take over. I think it's better for all involved in any position if there is an mentor-type player there who can handle anything the player in question can't, but with the understanding that the mentor-player cannot take over for the youngin' unless the youngin' simply can't do it...and then back to the drawing board. Right now we don't have many of those players. I think we could get someone to do that cheaply and not block the slot from a rookie. You keep mentioning Sopel as a sample mentor. What about Hammer? Hes UFA, could be a good mentor. Might be had for a mil or two, even if its just for nostalgic window dressing or final skate with the Hawks. Your CC story is why i dont like MAF coming here. Theyve already said that theyre going to stick with the young goalies in rotation and let CC walk. Now they want MAF as a mentor? Hjammer would be an excellent guy to bring back in terms of teaching the kids to sacrifice themselves and work ethic. But again the problem might be that JC/Stan lean on him too much. Plus retreads have never really worked for us. On paper though he would be perfect...assuming he'd want to come back. And you're spot on with the issue of MAF; if the 'hawks were to get a vet netminder, it should ideally be someone who would not realistically take over. Also, with respect to: For 82 games and ~2200 shots in his career thus far, Subban is at .899 SV%. For reference league average since the lockout is .911 and starter-average is .915. Subban's numbers match Fredrik Norrena's (I know...who? But that's my point). I think Subban might just be who he is at this point; a career backup/AHL goalie. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 15, 2021 8:54:02 GMT -6
Ignore the mentorship role for MAF, but if Vegas is willing to give up a top prospect like Krebs for dumping the last year of that contract, i’d mull it over. But it would have to be along those lines. If MAF platoons with Lankinen, I don’t think that’s all that bad. We need to deepen our prospect pool with quality and a guy like Krebs is ready now. (Answering oldtimehawky as well) I doubt you get Krebs with MAF, but if it happens that would be good. I still dont think getting a vet goalie would help. It will just move every goalie in the roster down a notch, especially if its MAF. Or are we giving up on Subban already? I dunno squish. IMO,the Hawks have to cut bait on one if not two of last year's GT's and a veteran tender might have been a big help to Lanks as far as opposing shooter's tendencies,mental approach and other game preparation. Delia and Subban had little to nothing to offer in these areas with their limited experience. Having a vet to just talk to helps and a vet can also take some of the tougher starts to keep the younger guy confident. |
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 15, 2021 9:11:57 GMT -6
(Answering oldtimehawky as well) I doubt you get Krebs with MAF, but if it happens that would be good. I still dont think getting a vet goalie would help. It will just move every goalie in the roster down a notch, especially if its MAF. Or are we giving up on Subban already? I dunno squish. IMO,the Hawks have to cut bait on one if not two of last year's GT's and a veteran tender might have been a big help to Lanks as far as opposing shooter's tendencies,mental approach and other game preparation. Delia and Subban had little to nothing to offer in these areas with their limited experience. Having a vet to just talk to helps and a vet can also take some of the tougher starts to keep the younger guy confident. I agree to some extent, but as Lordkotl mentioned above, JC might lean on heavily on MAF (or Hammer or any vets that might be brought in). They’ll play most of the games and the crucial icetimes instead of allowing the kids to experience and grow from them. I mean im a visual learner but that doesnt apply too much in sports. You have to be in that situation to learn, not just by watching, or being told what to do. A vet backup is nice, but not someone that might take over (unless he’s young enough) |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 15, 2021 9:16:58 GMT -6
I actually would like to see them embrace a full rebuild. None of these Seth Jones, Hamilton or MAF talk. I thought the goalies last season did well without a vet. Ehh...the netminder's did okay in my opinion. Lankinen posted a .909 and Subban posted a .900. Compare/contrast to Neili's .912 and Crawford's .917. Crawford even saw more shots his 1st full year so it's not like Crawford or Lankinen's number's are askew by lack of shots--both saw over 1200. I think some of Subban/Lankinen's numbers took a drop because of the atrocious D, but on the other hand I don't think .008 or .012 drop-off can be attributed in the entirety to the team in front of them. That being said, I think Lankinen needs more of a look. Subban I can take or leave since his career seems to be looking like Cam Ward's numbers...he's the type of G that would do well behind a stalwart D--and the 'hawks ain't got it. IMHO, Lanks could use a Turco/Emery backing him up in my opinion. I think those two worked wonders for Dr. Craw early on...and both were cheap. I don't think players of that ilk really block young guys from the ice, and are replaceable. Same with other positions--like Sopel. Jones, Hamilton, and MAF look sexy to the (uneducated) fans, but unless they are used to let the kids grow and not pushed into full-time workload, it's not helping the team move forward. But a team of all youth--especially behind the bench? That would make the development last longer than it needs to be. My main concern is this. Many people, and I mean many see kids coming in and ASSume that because they’re young that they’re gonna be great. That’s not the case. It rarely happens. Keith is someone that happens once every 50 years. A small kid drafted in the 2nd round. No one thought he’d ever be a difference maker. He wasn’t very good his first couple years. But he showed enough to stick around on a rebuilding team. Now he’s a first ballot hall of famer. Those stories don’t happen all the time. So to get the Makar’s, Heiskanen, Hughes etc. Gotta get high draft picks. And to the people that think winning an extra game or two at the end of a shitty season doesn’t matter. Well it did for the Hawks. Hughes was picked in front of Boqvist and that one draft slot cost us one of the games best young players. One gawd dam spot. Anyways. I don’t think Keith is the guy to teach the young kids. I think he’s a great warrior who wants to compete and not just be a mentor. Not every vet is great with the kids. I honestly don’t think Toews and Kane are all that great with them either. They’re still in win now mode, and probably will be the rest of their careers. Whether we like it not, but a guy like Aucoin or Brookbank seem to be guys that’ll take kids under their wing and show them how to be an NHL player on and off the ice. I’m quoting Shane O’Brien here. He said “I used to try and chirp Toews in the playoffs. All I would say to him was….. Johnny why don’t you come out for a Fucking beer after the game? Loosen up you dick”. And Toews comment was “O.B. You’re nothing but a fuckin cancer to your team and room, that’s why you guys will never win”. So my point is. Toews and Kane probably won’t be out partying with the young kids and showing them the ropes. When to call it quits on an evening etc. And you need vets that’ll get that done for the kids. So unless something magical happens. It’s probably best for all to move on and try this thing again!!! Keep in mind even Keith/Seabrook had mentors when they broke into the league. Ditto with Toews and Kane. IMHO Seabrook would've been a good mentor, and maybe even Toews. Keith/Kane I agree are more, "watch what I do" mentality and not so much take the time to bring the guys along--and it's not like Madden didn't do the limo ride. . Hossa could have done wonders for guys (especially El Gato based on last year). My point was going into next year with what we got might slow development down even more without guys like Sopel. Sopel ain't going to win you a cup or raise you much in the standings, but how he brought along Hjammer's game was priceless. We don't have guys like that on our club now...unfortunately. Crawford said he woulda stayed if the Hawks offer was a two year and the team said it was a 3.5M offer,maybe he goes for 3M if he got the 2nd year. I know about his health issues but his last year here was a healthy one and I highly doubt he even entertains retirement if he stayed. He seems like a good mentor and ALL of his GT teammates had great things to say about him and he coulda took some of the tougher starts last year and gave Lanks a great vet tender to talk with and compete with. I agree on Dr. Craw; I think if the 'hawks would have done him 3 for 2 or 2 for 3 it would have been fair and just and enough to cycle him slowly out while giving the young guys--especially Lankinen, his shot. Crawford did well as a mentor to Darling and really seemed like he was excited whenever Darling, Raanta, and Delia won one. Plus, looking back on this year when the team D took a giant liquid shit all over center ice, it would have been nice to get a seasoned vet in there who could ask 12 FWDs and all 6 D-men what the smeg they were thinking and be taken seriously. But again, playing the 'what if?' game... If Crawford did get re-signed, it's possible he might have hung them up. If he didn't what's to say he's not run roughshod and Subban get a small cut of the starts--and Lankinen doesn't see NHL ice? Or again, let's say Lankinen comes in instead of Subban and again, Crawford's seeing the lion's share of the starts because the team D sucks like Pamela Anderson at a Motel 6, and they can't 'trust' Lankinen to take over. I think it's better for all involved in any position if there is an mentor-type player there who can handle anything the player in question can't, but with the understanding that the mentor-player cannot take over for the youngin' unless the youngin' simply can't do it...and then back to the drawing board. Right now we don't have many of those players. I think we could get someone to do that cheaply and not block the slot from a rookie. I'm not comparing the 23yro sniper to the great Marian Hossa but it did look like D-Cat watched film of the great two way play we saw from Big Hoss his ENTIRE time here(even when he was suffering from his painful condition) and D-Cat looked to commit to all around play as a result. D-Cat was the best back-checking forward on the team last year while being on a FIFTY goal pace and looked real good on the kill as well and that's RARE as hell from your average sniper but D-Cat is miles from your average sniper and he's still 23. We can debate the wisdom of skating the kid on a 3rd/checking line after a 41 goal campaign but he never lost his smile or his pure love of the game and he just put his head down and produced one HELL of a season,the goals were impressive and so was his team best +/- among all forwards. This is the 2nd consecutive summer I'm hearing trade rumors and all I'll say is this....... TRADE THIS 23YRO SUPERSTAR AT YOUR OWN PERIL AND THEN EXPLAIN HOW YOU REPLACE HIM! (Not you Lord) |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 15, 2021 9:26:55 GMT -6
I dunno squish. IMO,the Hawks have to cut bait on one if not two of last year's GT's and a veteran tender might have been a big help to Lanks as far as opposing shooter's tendencies,mental approach and other game preparation. Delia and Subban had little to nothing to offer in these areas with their limited experience. Having a vet to just talk to helps and a vet can also take some of the tougher starts to keep the younger guy confident. I agree to some extent, but as Lordkotl mentioned above, JC might lean on heavily on MAF (or Hammer or any vets that might be brought in). They’ll play most of the games and the crucial icetimes instead of allowing the kids to experience and grow from them. I mean im a visual learner but that doesnt apply too much in sports. You have to be in that situation to learn, not just by watching, or being told what to do. A vet backup is nice, but not someone that might take over (unless he’s young enough) The possibility that any player on the roster will be mis-used or over-used is a tremendous concern with this staff and FO so I understand that opinion,in the right situation I believe a vet GT could help Lanks but the right situation is a crap shoot here so your point is well taken. I've liked Lanks since he stoned the World in the WC's a few years back and a season with or behind a healthy CC instead of acquiring Lehner two seasons ago might have been a big advantage for the youngster but it didn't happen that way and we were supposedly already in a rebuild a the time.........20 million on five vets......quite the rebuild! |
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 15, 2021 9:43:33 GMT -6
I agree to some extent, but as Lordkotl mentioned above, JC might lean on heavily on MAF (or Hammer or any vets that might be brought in). They’ll play most of the games and the crucial icetimes instead of allowing the kids to experience and grow from them. I mean im a visual learner but that doesnt apply too much in sports. You have to be in that situation to learn, not just by watching, or being told what to do. A vet backup is nice, but not someone that might take over (unless he’s young enough) The possibility that any player on the roster will be mis-used or over-used is a tremendous concern with this staff and FO so I understand that opinion,in the right situation I believe a vet GT could help Lanks but the right situation is a crap shoot here so your point is well taken. I've liked Lanks since he stoned the World in the WC's a few years back and a season with or behind a healthy CC instead of acquiring Lehner two seasons ago might have been a big advantage for the youngster but it didn't happen that way and we were supposedly already in a rebuild a the time.........20 million on five vets......quite the rebuild! Like everyone here, we really dont know or have any idea what the plan is, Im speaking from a position of someone who wants a “real” rebuild and letting the kids play. IMO Lankinen needs to play the bulk of the games next season (as well as Subban being the backup) to at least determine if they are the future. I understand the assets with bringing MAF in (and flipping him tdl) but those assets will probably be another 2-3yrs down the road With that said, i wouldnt mind MAF in a backup role (not taking over Lankinen and Subban might get better playing most of the games in Rockford) but if were going to flip MAF and raise his value, then hes going to play more games to show what he still capable of for maximum return *edit - just want to add. Im drinking the koolaid that were in a “rebuild” |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Jul 15, 2021 11:16:59 GMT -6
Any chance they have interest in Suter? Heard buyout caught him by surprise one way to piss them off would be to show up in Hawks sweater.
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 15, 2021 11:39:17 GMT -6
Any chance they have interest in Suter? Heard buyout caught him by surprise one way to piss them off would be to show up in Hawks sweater. If he'll sign cheap that'd be a good pickup, as long as de Haan is moved. But he did screw the Hawks over when he had a verbal agreement to sign here then him and Parise went to the Wild. |
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Post by gigecj on Jul 15, 2021 11:48:06 GMT -6
as I've mentioned before, I grew up in MI as a Chicago fan... during the bad boys years... I cannot stand the pistons. The two postseasons prior to the classless walk off after getting swept in '91' saw the Pistons get away with out n out assault against the Bulls and other teams. Lambeer and Mahorn,among others were allowed to punch Scotty(YOU'd have a migraine too) and Jordon in the back of the head on just about every layup attempt and often not even see a personal foul,let alone a flagrant call......so they just continued on feeling emboldened by the league looking the other way and they took full advantage. Isiah was dirty little prick too and I'll always appreciate Bill Cartwright whippin' his ass..... www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXhAHpWiGicGotta love the 'Mailman' too........ www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0RGcMhGMk4 Yeah, those mid-to-late eighties, early nineties Pistons teams made the Philly Flyers of the seventies seem like a band of angels. Just curious, who among you was like me in that every single time (out of a million times!) Bill Laimbeer did some kind of criminal act, was given a foul, and gave the ref that face that said "What did I do? You gotta be bleeping me!," you wanted to someone to haul off and give him a gigantic KO on the schnozzola? |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 15, 2021 12:16:32 GMT -6
The two postseasons prior to the classless walk off after getting swept in '91' saw the Pistons get away with out n out assault against the Bulls and other teams. Lambeer and Mahorn,among others were allowed to punch Scotty(YOU'd have a migraine too) and Jordon in the back of the head on just about every layup attempt and often not even see a personal foul,let alone a flagrant call......so they just continued on feeling emboldened by the league looking the other way and they took full advantage. Isiah was dirty little prick too and I'll always appreciate Bill Cartwright whippin' his ass..... www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXhAHpWiGicGotta love the 'Mailman' too........ www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0RGcMhGMk4 Yeah, those mid-to-late eighties, early nineties Pistons teams made the Philly Flyers of the seventies like a band of angels. Just curious, who among you was like me in that every single time (out of a million times!) Bill Laimbeer did some kind of criminal act, was given a foul, and gave the ref that face that said "What did I do? You gotta be bleeping me!," you wanted to someone to haul off and give him a gigantic KO on the schnozzola? I remember that video game, "Bill Lambeer's Combat Basketball". And...I seem to recall he and Charles Barclay were lampooning their antics in the movie Hot Shots. Truth be told I was only into basketball for the Bulls' dynasty (and was a teenager at the time), and found it hard to get into it afterward. |
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Post by gigecj on Jul 15, 2021 12:36:34 GMT -6
Yeah, those mid-to-late eighties, early nineties Pistons teams made the Philly Flyers of the seventies like a band of angels. Just curious, who among you was like me in that every single time (out of a million times!) Bill Laimbeer did some kind of criminal act, was given a foul, and gave the ref that face that said "What did I do? You gotta be bleeping me!," you wanted to someone to haul off and give him a gigantic KO on the schnozzola? I remember that video game, "Bill Lambeer's Combat Basketball". And...I seem to recall he and Charles Barclay were lampooning their antics in the movie Hot Shots. Truth be told I was only into basketball for the Bulls' dynasty (and was a teenager at the time), and found it hard to get into it afterward. To your last sentence Lordy, I echo it completely! The one neat thing I'd add to the Bulls' Dynasty for my experience is this: While I grew up in Chicago (Southwest Side), I lived in other places for the most of the eighties (Florida and Colorado) and ever since the year 2000 (Washington state). So, in terms of a local experience, I missed the '85 Bears, the '05 White Sox (my MLB team) and the three Cups. I was in Chicago for all six of the Bulls championships in the nineties which is kind of funny since basketball is by far my least favorite of the Big Four team sports in the US. Still, Jordan and Co. were so good (72-10 one year! C'mon on!) that I did enjoy it immensely. while I am not one of those Jordan apologists who finds him to be like a perfect god, I will admit that I think he's the greatest "winner" combined with top tier talent that team sport has ever known. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 15, 2021 16:57:25 GMT -6
Any chance they have interest in Suter? Heard buyout caught him by surprise one way to piss them off would be to show up in Hawks sweater. I would have to think he will take advantage of his newfound freedom and sign with a contender for cheap. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 15, 2021 18:10:24 GMT -6
The two postseasons prior to the classless walk off after getting swept in '91' saw the Pistons get away with out n out assault against the Bulls and other teams. Lambeer and Mahorn,among others were allowed to punch Scotty(YOU'd have a migraine too) and Jordon in the back of the head on just about every layup attempt and often not even see a personal foul,let alone a flagrant call......so they just continued on feeling emboldened by the league looking the other way and they took full advantage. Isiah was dirty little prick too and I'll always appreciate Bill Cartwright whippin' his ass..... www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXhAHpWiGicGotta love the 'Mailman' too........ www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0RGcMhGMk4 Yeah, those mid-to-late eighties, early nineties Pistons teams made the Philly Flyers of the seventies seem like a band of angels. Just curious, who among you was like me in that every single time (out of a million times!) Bill Laimbeer did some kind of criminal act, was given a foul, and gave the ref that face that said "What did I do? You gotta be bleeping me!," you wanted to someone to haul off and give him a gigantic KO on the schnozzola? With a house brick! |
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Post by shooter61 on Jul 15, 2021 18:23:34 GMT -6
would love to have him here
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. Hossa could have done wonders for guys (especially El Gato based on last year). 
