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Post by galaxytrash on Dec 15, 2023 21:46:37 GMT -6
Its the percentages, the chances of kfc failing is monumental than him succeeding. So in the end its easier to say “i told you so” good point. |
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Post by mvr on Dec 16, 2023 7:10:31 GMT -6
Galaxy: Implying that the team's young talent has improved because its future prospect rankings are higher fails to account for the young players on the roster who were moved out.
Frank Nazar is part of the future perhaps, but Kirby Dach is no longer here.
The team had some young talent from the Bowman era. None of it was allowed to develop. Davidson gutted the entire franchise. He tore apart everything that was here and sent two Hall of Famers packing.
Bob Murray was never given this kind of latitude (less than 3 years) Certainly Mike Smith was not either (he got 4). Davidson is in his 12th year with the organization and is now in his 3rd year as general manager. The team is far worse than when he took over.
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Post by mvr on Dec 16, 2023 7:25:04 GMT -6
Some will point to this year's draft as a sign of optimism. Sure, it is likely this team picks in the top five again. Davidson might again get lucky and win the lottery. If so, is this really an "accomplishment" for the general manager? Should we put him on a pedestal for steering the team in this direction? Yes. In your scenario the team would be stuck in the middle picking 7-12 slots. Just like they were. Then the last GM wore out the last 8 years of the cores careers with constant turnover and crapshoots. One thing I’ve never understood from you MVR is that you’re obviously very knowledgeable and very well spoken. However you dont wanna pay UFAs big dollars or term. You don’t wanna strip down a roster to get those types of players. You make it sound like you can build a cup contender with 2nd-5th round picks, waiver wire pickups, and dumpster dives in the UFA market. I have never seen a team do much with what you’re proposing. I think the path the team is on is much better than a middle of the pack team with not much to look forward too. I don’t think Reichel is being “ruined”. I think this is on him. He clearly didn’t come in ready to go. He started off with the same linemates he had the year before. It wasn’t working and they tried him on center for quite some time. That didn’t work out. They tried him on every line. That hasn’t worked out. At some point, he’s gotta be a man and step up. Maybe we as fans looked too much into his numbers. Somebody recently posted (sorry forget who it was) that in the last nine games or something like that, the Hawks played all playoff bound teams and he had zero points I believe. So maybe Reichel just isn’t that good? That’s something we have to always keep in mind!!! Years ago, I read a Malcolm Gladwell book called The Tipping Point. It popularized an idea that moderates in the middle had been discussing for years. The basic premise is that small changes can cumulatively make a big difference over time and tend to be preferable to radical moves. When Davidson took over, the team had some issues. But he could have addressed many of these problems with some minor tinkering. Sweeping changes weren't necessary then, and they certainly won't help right the ship now. In the era we live, few people defend the centre any more. Everyone fights for changes on the extreme edges. It is not helpful or desirable. In the Hawks' situation, perhaps the reason why players like Dach, Strome, Reichel, etc have not developed is because of the constant change and turmoil around the team. Blaming the players rather than the team culture to my mind is failing to take ownership of a bad situation. |
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Post by mvr on Dec 16, 2023 7:27:54 GMT -6
Big T: You might recall, my criticism of Bowman was almost always that I thought he was making too many radical changes too often.
Bowman was an ideologue who thought he knew more than everyone else. He thought size did not matter. Now we have a guy perhaps overly focussed on skating.
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Post by shooter61 on Dec 16, 2023 8:33:24 GMT -6
Thank you Big T. I will go on the record here reiterating my position that a total teardown strip rebuild is just about the dumbest move made by any Hawks general manager in my lifetime (even despite the lucky lottery win). This guy needs to go. The sooner the better. (At least he comes cheap). This team is going to get worse before it gets better. How many kids' careers will be destroyed before Davidson is shown the door? How long before Bedard becomes part of the problem? wow so negative! I will go on record saying that a total rebuild is the way to go . the team will get worse before it gets better, ( that's how you do a total rebuild), kids careers destroyed, because of Davidson? how? why? either they grow together , taking their lumps, building chemistry, becoming a team, if you guys would just give him a chance ,I mean it's been 2 years, would you rather the stan's approach, more Jone's and other stop gaps hoping that works for the first time , instead of the long game ,which has proven to work , complaining about it's not the right way, your way is better ! makes no sense |
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Post by T-man2010 on Dec 16, 2023 8:44:05 GMT -6
Big T: You might recall, my criticism of Bowman was almost always that I thought he was making too many radical changes too often. Bowman was an ideologue who thought he knew more than everyone else. He thought size did not matter. Now we have a guy perhaps overly focussed on skating. KD has shown he has drafted size on the defensive end where bowman kept going for the Boqvist type. Kept trying to get the next Keith type. But I also have said forever that the "development" crew just sucks. |
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Post by BigT on Dec 16, 2023 9:11:30 GMT -6
Big T: You might recall, my criticism of Bowman was almost always that I thought he was making too many radical changes too often. Bowman was an ideologue who thought he knew more than everyone else. He thought size did not matter. Now we have a guy perhaps overly focussed on skating. I also have expressed my concern about their fantasy with skating. I remember the head scout saying last year in the little film they make about the draft. He says “ If you’re not a top skater, you can’t play for the Blackhawks”. I thought that wasn’t a great way to go about things. I though the last GM started to learn the error in f his ways a decade too late. He drafted EDM, Allan, Crevier, Dach, Dach, Harding, Safonov, and a bunch of others. It was just too much too late. He went the exact opposite of what he did before. And maybe even missed out on a smaller guy that could have been much better. But he was hellbent on another path. Anyways. A team needs a mix. I really don’t like the newer regimes statements about skating. Not all have to be elite. Find players that seem to fit a certain role for you. Like Savoie. If he makes it back from his injury, he’ll be the agitator type. Bedard will be the scoring type. It’s not hard. We have a fresh blueprint from the last Cup teams still there. It’s time to look at that!!! |
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Post by BigT on Dec 16, 2023 9:20:34 GMT -6
Big T: You might recall, my criticism of Bowman was almost always that I thought he was making too many radical changes too often. Bowman was an ideologue who thought he knew more than everyone else. He thought size did not matter. Now we have a guy perhaps overly focussed on skating. KD has shown he has drafted size on the defensive end where bowman kept going for the Boqvist type. Kept trying to get the next Keith type. But I also have said forever that the "development" crew just sucks. The Hawks for years rushed kids. Some may have needed 3-4 years. Yet he gave up and traded them. And has not much to show for them. The problem is the last GM kept the same coaches in Rockford forever. And no one was being developed. My thoughts are that Dent and co were playing vets over kids to try and look better and the GM did nothing about it while he was riding the waves of the last GM. Even the last GM would have ruined Vlasic, Crevier etc. Remember when KD said that Vlasic wasn’t going to play for Rockford in the playoffs the other year? He everyone said he was stupid and was ruining the kid. KD said that he doesn’t want to screw up the kids off ice training for the summer because he was coming off of injury. It looks like a great development move now. I think they’re doing much better now. We’re actually seeing kids make it and make a difference!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Dec 16, 2023 9:32:42 GMT -6
Galaxy: Implying that the team's young talent has improved because its future prospect rankings are higher fails to account for the young players on the roster who were moved out. Frank Nazar is part of the future perhaps, but Kirby Dach is no longer here. The team had some young talent from the Bowman era. None of it was allowed to develop. Davidson gutted the entire franchise. He tore apart everything that was here and sent two Hall of Famers packing. Bob Murray was never given this kind of latitude (less than 3 years) Certainly Mike Smith was not either (he got 4). Davidson is in his 12th year with the organization and is now in his 3rd year as general manager. The team is far worse than when he took over. I think that, when considering what KD has done since he took over, one has to take into account what happened in 2010. it feels pretty obvious, to me anyway, that part of his job when he was given the reins (even just when it was temporary) was to root out everyone that was even remotely around back then and move them out. prospects, AHlers, NHLers, and brass. even prospects associated with Bowman but not necessarily around back then had to go. a clean(ish) slate, if you will. |
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Post by steamer on Dec 16, 2023 9:36:31 GMT -6
Getting Bedard was lucky and certainly huge to get a likely generational superstar. But one “negative” is he is ahead of most of the other offensive peers they have drafted recently. Since he was ready for the NHL, he’s playing in it while others need to mature and develop and this year are not ready to be his teammates. At least he has Korchinski and Vlasic with him to begin with but hopefully some offensive guys can join him next year. I suspect he understands this but no doubt the lack of offensive talent gets frustrating as he sends brilliant passes that his current linemates can’t handle and finish off.
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Post by BigT on Dec 16, 2023 9:41:29 GMT -6
Galaxy: Implying that the team's young talent has improved because its future prospect rankings are higher fails to account for the young players on the roster who were moved out. Frank Nazar is part of the future perhaps, but Kirby Dach is no longer here. The team had some young talent from the Bowman era. None of it was allowed to develop. Davidson gutted the entire franchise. He tore apart everything that was here and sent two Hall of Famers packing. Bob Murray was never given this kind of latitude (less than 3 years) Certainly Mike Smith was not either (he got 4). Davidson is in his 12th year with the organization and is now in his 3rd year as general manager. The team is far worse than when he took over. I’m not saying you’re wrong. But if you’re right, how do you explain Vegas? Or now even Seattle? They had nothing to start with and made it work. They had cap space, the weaponized everything in their disposal. I believe you’ll see similar things here. Except, they want it to last longer than half a decade. KD wanted to start over. Even if he did what you wanted, and kept Toews and Kane. Neither would have played any games for the Hawks yet. Maybe Kane. So how would that have helped? There’s no way a rebuilding team spends to the cap limits. No way. They’d be stuck in the middle and probably don’t get Bedard. Still suck, and then the focus would surely focus on another aspect of management. They have a plan. Unfortunately there’s nothing to do but see it through!!! |
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Post by jacksalmon on Dec 16, 2023 10:11:13 GMT -6
He didn’t create the mess - he inherited a team that was sliding to the bottom. Whether he’s ultimately “successful” with a rebuild I don’t have a clue but I think trying to accumulate highly rated young prospects is a start and at some point - I don’t know exactly when - it will be time to add quality experienced players. Meanwhile it will be a tough go - what is so shocking about this? Even after Bedard, this team is about where it should be, given a few points here and there. The real question is whether it will ever improve. I am sure it will get better than this edition of a "team". But, how much better cannot be seen at this point. There is no sense in speculating about how much better since we don't even know if the GM knows what he is doing. Being the GM when the ping pong balls fell your way does not demonstrate any GM prowess. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Dec 16, 2023 10:15:22 GMT -6
Galaxy: Implying that the team's young talent has improved because its future prospect rankings are higher fails to account for the young players on the roster who were moved out. Frank Nazar is part of the future perhaps, but Kirby Dach is no longer here. The team had some young talent from the Bowman era. None of it was allowed to develop. Davidson gutted the entire franchise. He tore apart everything that was here and sent two Hall of Famers packing. Bob Murray was never given this kind of latitude (less than 3 years) Certainly Mike Smith was not either (he got 4). Davidson is in his 12th year with the organization and is now in his 3rd year as general manager. The team is far worse than when he took over. I’m not saying you’re wrong. But if you’re right, how do you explain Vegas? Or now even Seattle? They had nothing to start with and made it work. They had cap space, the weaponized everything in their disposal. I believe you’ll see similar things here. Except, they want it to last longer than half a decade. KD wanted to start over. Even if he did what you wanted, and kept Toews and Kane. Neither would have played any games for the Hawks yet. Maybe Kane. So how would that have helped? There’s no way a rebuilding team spends to the cap limits. No way. They’d be stuck in the middle and probably don’t get Bedard. Still suck, and then the focus would surely focus on another aspect of management. They have a plan. Unfortunately there’s nothing to do but see it through!!! That's right, it's like running a river and committing to running a particular rapid rather than portgaging. Once you start down that rapid, there ain't no turning back. One just has to do his best job of navigating, shifting and turning at that time. The problem for me is that I don't trust the one at the oars. But, what the hell do I know? Not much, I just have my opinions and no certainty in my vision. |
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Post by hsbob on Dec 16, 2023 12:21:53 GMT -6
And Dylan Strome didn't skate well enough or have that two-way game demanded from the new 'brain trust'.......our standards are excruciatingly high! His 22 goals bests anyone on the Hawks last year and he had 16 more points than Domi's team leading 49 and his 12 goals so far this year tie Bedard. His new coaches like his game but his new coaches also helped his game,he'd easily be the team's 2nd best player but he just didn't measure up to a 3.6M QO! Strome is an excellent example of why it is hard for me to have any faith in the so-called braintrust of the Chicago franchise. All front offices F-up,I'm just dispelling the ridiculous notions that his staking and defense wasn't up to the team's high standards and that he had no trade value. The Caps ain't playing .615 hockey so far because they're gettin' 11 goals from Ovi,Kuntnetzov and Oshie combined for a bit over 23 million combined,they're in contention for a few reasons and Strome's team leading 12 goals and 53.3FO% for 5 million is a major reason. The disgruntled Kuntnetzov has missed a few more with another sprained taint and has to play with Ovi when his taint is healthy enough to play or he'll have a relapse and I guess they like 36yro Oshie to join em. That's been just great for Strome because he's been out with Wilson 10/17 and 22yro 6'5" Protas who's almost totaled his rookie production already so far. Nice PP dish to Wilson to give the team a lead and a nice 5 on 5 finish from Protas and Wilson to give the team the lead again half way trough the 3rd in Phily..... www.nhl.com/gamecenter/phi-vs-wsh/2023/12/14/202302044822yro center Connor McMichael has had a good start to his sophomore too as has 29yro Mantha. Washington has to find a way to deal with their aging Russian population.......LOL! |
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Post by mvr on Dec 16, 2023 12:54:38 GMT -6
Not every move Davidson made has been terrible. The Dickinson trade was a small one that has paid off tremendously. But these types of moves have been far too infrequent. Davidson prefers grabbing the headlines and swinging for the fences. When a lineup of Davidson castoffs (including Strome, Debrincat, Hagel, Kane, Toews, Dach, Lankinen, Dehaan, C. Jones, Kubalik and others) would blow away the present roster, there is a problem. I just wish he would slow down and focus on improving the situation incrementally. Take advantage of the power of compound interest. Look to add without ever subtracting. justinthomasmiller.com/the-butterfly-effect-small-changes-lead-to-massive-progress/www.mcgill.ca/continuingstudies/article/small-changes-can-make-big-difference |
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Post by mvr on Dec 16, 2023 12:59:22 GMT -6
Galaxy: Implying that the team's young talent has improved because its future prospect rankings are higher fails to account for the young players on the roster who were moved out. Frank Nazar is part of the future perhaps, but Kirby Dach is no longer here. The team had some young talent from the Bowman era. None of it was allowed to develop. Davidson gutted the entire franchise. He tore apart everything that was here and sent two Hall of Famers packing. Bob Murray was never given this kind of latitude (less than 3 years) Certainly Mike Smith was not either (he got 4). Davidson is in his 12th year with the organization and is now in his 3rd year as general manager. The team is far worse than when he took over. I’m not saying you’re wrong. But if you’re right, how do you explain Vegas? Or now even Seattle? They had nothing to start with and made it work. They had cap space, the weaponized everything in their disposal. I believe you’ll see similar things here. Except, they want it to last longer than half a decade. KD wanted to start over. Even if he did what you wanted, and kept Toews and Kane. Neither would have played any games for the Hawks yet. Maybe Kane. So how would that have helped? There’s no way a rebuilding team spends to the cap limits. No way. They’d be stuck in the middle and probably don’t get Bedard. Still suck, and then the focus would surely focus on another aspect of management. They have a plan. Unfortunately there’s nothing to do but see it through!!! If you look at Vegas, many members of their present roster have been there for years. That team was loaded with talent from day one. If anything, management got in the way and made too many changes. It took longer than it should have because of the roster turnover. Players needed to get comfortable. Seattle has taken a step back this year because of too much roster turnover. |
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Post by Hockey is great on Dec 16, 2023 13:08:50 GMT -6
Nothing but time. Will it work who knows. But I’m just glad a front office decided a direction instead of being wishy washy year in and out. Will say some forward help will be needed this offseason. Regardless of if/when Reichel can turn unit around. Doesn’t have to be Nylander or Reinhart but a Toffoli addition would do wonders.
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Post by BigT on Dec 16, 2023 13:21:34 GMT -6
I promise. And I rarely use that word. I promise that KD is gonna improve the roster. Some will be the draft, some will be free agency, some will be trades. Whether we like it or not. Not every drafted player will make it and or be on the Hawks. He already is adding pieces incrementally it sounds like they’re gonna be a bit more of a player in free agency. And I feel over the next 2 seasons you’ll see a litany of trades. More than likely lateral ones. But necessary. So to say he’s not making enough smaller moves is not true. Don’t think he’s swinging for the fences. He talked to Toews and Kane and they really didn’t want anything to do with a rebuild. That’s fine. KD made the decision neither will be offered a contract. And they’ve stuck to it. So he brought in guys he felt were the right choices to help lead the rebuild. He started over. And he didn’t let any GM take advantage of him in any trade. He let them go instead of being the guy who gets walked over. Whether we agree or not on that, he made a choice and stuck to it.
I think he wanted to clean out the dressing room. There’s a reason Gapsby retired too. They wanted a clean clean slate. They stuck to their plan.
I’ve disliked a few moves. But if you listen to the man talk. He explains that unless he’s willing to give up Nazar, Moore etc. he can’t make a move of significance. He said mid season is tough to make those types of moves, and probably when the discussions start for the moves in the offseason.
Again, the Hawks have lost Hall, AA, Perry, Seth, Korchinski for a decent amount of time. Or the year. So I don’t see how anyone can say he hasn’t added a decent amount to the roster. He’s added guys you like, cheaper dumpster dive guys like Donato, Beauvillier, Tinordi. But you don’t get career years outta those guys. You get what you get. And filling a team full of that and older players gets you exactly what you have now!!!
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Post by mvr on Dec 16, 2023 13:27:00 GMT -6
When Mike Keenan took over in the late 1980s, this team was floundering in that dreaded middle position.
Keenan did not dismantle the roster to chase high draft picks. Instead, he built the team incrementally, adding always without ever subtracting. The result was a Stanley Cup final appearance four years after he arrived.
CHI 1988–89 80 27 41 12 – 66 4th in Norris 9 7 .563 Lost in Conference Finals (CGY)
CHI 1989–90 80 41 33 6 – 88 1st in Norris 10 10 .500 Lost in Conference Finals (EDM)
CHI 1990–91 80 49 23 8 – 106 1st in Norris 2 4 .333 Lost in Division Semifinals
CHI 1991–92 80 36 29 15 – 87 2nd in Norris 12 6 .667 Lost in Stanley Cup Finals
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Post by mvr on Dec 16, 2023 13:30:25 GMT -6
I promise. And I rarely use that word. I promise that KD is gonna improve the roster. Some will be the draft, some will be free agency, some will be trades. Whether we like it or not. Not every drafted player will make it and or be on the Hawks. He already is adding pieces incrementally it sounds like they’re gonna be a bit more of a player in free agency. And I feel over the next 2 seasons you’ll see a litany of trades. More than likely lateral ones. But necessary. So to say he’s not making enough smaller moves is not true. Don’t think he’s swinging for the fences. He talked to Toews and Kane and they really didn’t want anything to do with a rebuild. That’s fine. KD made the decision neither will be offered a contract. And they’ve stuck to it. So he brought in guys he felt were the right choices to help lead the rebuild. He started over. And he didn’t let any GM take advantage of him in any trade. He let them go instead of being the guy who gets walked over. Whether we agree or not on that, he made a choice and stuck to it. I think he wanted to clean out the dressing room. There’s a reason Gapsby retired too. They wanted a clean clean slate. They stuck to their plan. I’ve disliked a few moves. But if you listen to the man talk. He explains that unless he’s willing to give up Nazar, Moore etc. he can’t make a move of significance. He said mid season is tough to make those types of moves, and probably when the discussions start for the moves in the offseason. Again, the Hawks have lost Hall, AA, Perry, Seth, Korchinski for a decent amount of time. Or the year. So I don’t see how anyone can say he hasn’t added a decent amount to the roster. He’s added guys you like, cheaper dumpster dive guys like Donato, Beauvillier, Tinordi. But you don’t get career years outta those guys. You get what you get. And filling a team full of that and older players gets you exactly what you have now!!! Re Kane. He hoped and expected Davidson would change direction and make him a contract offer after the Bedard draft. A phone call never materialized. So instead, he signed with Detroit for $2.5 M. The player never wanted to leave. He was kicked to the curb. |
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Post by Hockey is great on Dec 16, 2023 13:33:58 GMT -6
This team was bad to begin with. But losing the actual nhl players they have to injuries is rough. Jones, hall and Anthanasiou have affected things being out. It’s another tank year either way.
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Post by BigT on Dec 16, 2023 13:52:12 GMT -6
When Mike Keenan took over in the late 1980s, this team was floundering in that dreaded middle position. Keenan did not dismantle the roster to chase high draft picks. Instead, he built the team incrementally, adding always without ever subtracting. The result was a Stanley Cup final appearance four years after he arrived. CHI 1988–89 80 27 41 12 – 66 4th in Norris 9 7 .563 Lost in Conference Finals (CGY) CHI 1989–90 80 41 33 6 – 88 1st in Norris 10 10 .500 Lost in Conference Finals (EDM) CHI 1990–91 80 49 23 8 – 106 1st in Norris 2 4 .333 Lost in Division Semifinals CHI 1991–92 80 36 29 15 – 87 2nd in Norris 12 6 .667 Lost in Stanley Cup Finals Keenan won nothing and maybe if he did the right things they would have. Tallon stripped the team down to nothing. He added some vets he seen as quality. Cullimore, Aucoin, Lapointe etc. He thought he had a gem with Khabby. Khabby wanted the money and he got it. He went to Chicago to die. Whatever. If Tallon did exactly what you’ve clamoured for. There would not have been those 3 Cups. More than likely not even one. Pretty much every example you’ve give over the years those teams haven’t won anything. Even your cross sports examples of the Baltimore Orioles. Plain and simple. You need top talent. There’s really only one place to get that. And that’s picking very high in the draft. We don’t need to go over every team of recent years, but it’s true. This team was going to suck regardless for a few years. If they retained Toews, Kane, Dcat etc. they’d have barely one line to play, and no Bedard. No Korchinski etc. it takes time. I get it, no one’s patient. But a wise man once told me “If you’re not patient, you’ll become one”!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Dec 16, 2023 13:55:57 GMT -6
I promise. And I rarely use that word. I promise that KD is gonna improve the roster. Some will be the draft, some will be free agency, some will be trades. Whether we like it or not. Not every drafted player will make it and or be on the Hawks. He already is adding pieces incrementally it sounds like they’re gonna be a bit more of a player in free agency. And I feel over the next 2 seasons you’ll see a litany of trades. More than likely lateral ones. But necessary. So to say he’s not making enough smaller moves is not true. Don’t think he’s swinging for the fences. He talked to Toews and Kane and they really didn’t want anything to do with a rebuild. That’s fine. KD made the decision neither will be offered a contract. And they’ve stuck to it. So he brought in guys he felt were the right choices to help lead the rebuild. He started over. And he didn’t let any GM take advantage of him in any trade. He let them go instead of being the guy who gets walked over. Whether we agree or not on that, he made a choice and stuck to it. I think he wanted to clean out the dressing room. There’s a reason Gapsby retired too. They wanted a clean clean slate. They stuck to their plan. I’ve disliked a few moves. But if you listen to the man talk. He explains that unless he’s willing to give up Nazar, Moore etc. he can’t make a move of significance. He said mid season is tough to make those types of moves, and probably when the discussions start for the moves in the offseason. Again, the Hawks have lost Hall, AA, Perry, Seth, Korchinski for a decent amount of time. Or the year. So I don’t see how anyone can say he hasn’t added a decent amount to the roster. He’s added guys you like, cheaper dumpster dive guys like Donato, Beauvillier, Tinordi. But you don’t get career years outta those guys. You get what you get. And filling a team full of that and older players gets you exactly what you have now!!! Re Kane. He hoped and expected Davidson would change direction and make him a contract offer after the Bedard draft. A phone call never materialized. So instead, he signed with Detroit for $2.5 M. The player never wanted to leave. He was kicked to the curb. As was Jonathan Toews and as much as I LOATH Danny and the 'Children of the Dammed' for it,I don't criticize the losses or the HC for em because I realized another unabashed tank season was on the way. Another next year and maybe more will be a bit much for me and I wonder if Bedard and a good portion of the fanbase agrees. I haven't criticized a single darft pick or prospect of the new GM's either because every kid stands on their own once they reach the league.......... I don't hold who drafted a player against him and never will. A lesson that went un-learned here. |
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Post by Hockey is great on Dec 16, 2023 13:56:20 GMT -6
When Mike Keenan took over in the late 1980s, this team was floundering in that dreaded middle position. Keenan did not dismantle the roster to chase high draft picks. Instead, he built the team incrementally, adding always without ever subtracting. The result was a Stanley Cup final appearance four years after he arrived. CHI 1988–89 80 27 41 12 – 66 4th in Norris 9 7 .563 Lost in Conference Finals (CGY) CHI 1989–90 80 41 33 6 – 88 1st in Norris 10 10 .500 Lost in Conference Finals (EDM) CHI 1990–91 80 49 23 8 – 106 1st in Norris 2 4 .333 Lost in Division Semifinals CHI 1991–92 80 36 29 15 – 87 2nd in Norris 12 6 .667 Lost in Stanley Cup Finals Keenan won nothing and maybe if he did the right things they would have. Tallon stripped the team down to nothing. He added some vets he seen as quality. Cullimore, Aucoin, Lapointe etc. He thought he had a gem with Khabby. Khabby wanted the money and he got it. He went to Chicago to die. Whatever. If Tallon did exactly what you’ve clamoured for. There would not have been those 3 Cups. More than likely not even one. Pretty much every example you’ve give over the years those teams haven’t won anything. Even your cross sports examples of the Baltimore Orioles. Plain and simple. You need top talent. There’s really only one place to get that. And that’s picking very high in the draft. We don’t need to go over every team of recent years, but it’s true. This team was going to suck regardless for a few years. If they retained Toews, Kane, Dcat etc. they’d have barely one line to play, and no Bedard. No Korchinski etc. it takes time. I get it, no one’s patient. But a wise man once told me “If you’re not patient, you’ll become one”!!! would be the Minnesota Wild/Nashville predators mid territory. |
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Post by BigT on Dec 16, 2023 14:02:48 GMT -6
Keenan won nothing and maybe if he did the right things they would have. Tallon stripped the team down to nothing. He added some vets he seen as quality. Cullimore, Aucoin, Lapointe etc. He thought he had a gem with Khabby. Khabby wanted the money and he got it. He went to Chicago to die. Whatever. If Tallon did exactly what you’ve clamoured for. There would not have been those 3 Cups. More than likely not even one. Pretty much every example you’ve give over the years those teams haven’t won anything. Even your cross sports examples of the Baltimore Orioles. Plain and simple. You need top talent. There’s really only one place to get that. And that’s picking very high in the draft. We don’t need to go over every team of recent years, but it’s true. This team was going to suck regardless for a few years. If they retained Toews, Kane, Dcat etc. they’d have barely one line to play, and no Bedard. No Korchinski etc. it takes time. I get it, no one’s patient. But a wise man once told me “If you’re not patient, you’ll become one”!!! would be the Minnesota Wild/Nashville predators mid territory. The middle isn’t always great. Sure it’s safe with some playoff appearances, but you need that top end talent. Those guys are at the top of the draft board every year. Some people like the slow and easy approach. Just like investing. If I told you you could make 2 million bucks in an investment over the course of 2 years. But, the next day you’d lose 500k. Or, you could go slow and easy, and watch it grow to 1 million over 2 years with no losses. I believe MVR would choose the no risk approach and just be happy with a million. And the argument would be that he didn’t lose 25% of his money. Which is true, but you’d either have 1.5 million or 1 million. It’s really that simple!!! Edit: There’s absolutely nothing wrong with either approach. Just some people like A and some like B!!! |
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Post by mvr on Dec 16, 2023 14:12:41 GMT -6
I am quite happy dollar-cost-averaging a couple of hundred every month with S&P 500 ETFs. Year after year, the portfolio grows another 8-10%.
You can stick with your lottery tickets, tech/marijuana stocks..... We will see where we are in 10 years.
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Post by hsbob on Dec 16, 2023 14:44:22 GMT -6
When Mike Keenan took over in the late 1980s, this team was floundering in that dreaded middle position. Keenan did not dismantle the roster to chase high draft picks. Instead, he built the team incrementally, adding always without ever subtracting. The result was a Stanley Cup final appearance four years after he arrived. CHI 1988–89 80 27 41 12 – 66 4th in Norris 9 7 .563 Lost in Conference Finals (CGY) CHI 1989–90 80 41 33 6 – 88 1st in Norris 10 10 .500 Lost in Conference Finals (EDM) CHI 1990–91 80 49 23 8 – 106 1st in Norris 2 4 .333 Lost in Division Semifinals CHI 1991–92 80 36 29 15 – 87 2nd in Norris 12 6 .667 Lost in Stanley Cup Finals Keenan won nothing and maybe if he did the right things they would have. Tallon stripped the team down to nothing. He added some vets he seen as quality. Cullimore, Aucoin, Lapointe etc. He thought he had a gem with Khabby. Khabby wanted the money and he got it. He went to Chicago to die. Whatever. If Tallon did exactly what you’ve clamoured for. There would not have been those 3 Cups. More than likely not even one. Pretty much every example you’ve give over the years those teams haven’t won anything. Even your cross sports examples of the Baltimore Orioles. Plain and simple. You need top talent. There’s really only one place to get that. And that’s picking very high in the draft. We don’t need to go over every team of recent years, but it’s true. This team was going to suck regardless for a few years. If they retained Toews, Kane, Dcat etc. they’d have barely one line to play, and no Bedard. No Korchinski etc. it takes time. I get it, no one’s patient. But a wise man once told me “If you’re not patient, you’ll become one”!!! Depends on what you mean be patient. Buffalo and Ottawa have been bad for years,both unloaded stars and both drafted STUDS at important positions,those STUDS are playing well and yet the two teams that had high expectations to start the year are a combined 5 games under 30 games in. The new GM's finishes will be 27th,30th and possibly 32nd this year,how many more bottom-five finishes are required? I AM patient this year and I only look for menial improvement the next two years too,but patience,like rebuilds,comes in many forms. Other than being more competitive now,the many cup-winning and PO experienced vets Detroit has added to their young players the last two years allows them the 'patience' to not rush any of their numerous high picks still in their system. To be fair,I'd say the best teams of the 'cap era',Hawks,Kings,Pens and TB have acquired most their best players through the draft,as did the Avs but all these teams had excellent support players acquired otherwise too. Some cup winners like LV acquired their best players through FA and trades. The Leafs and Oil have acquired many of the greatest players in the league through the draft over the last decade and still require 'patience'. Of the four current division leaders,The Avs only have four drafted players left on their roster,LV has 5,the Rags have 8 and surprisingly aging Boston has 12 without ever becoming irrelevant. The aging Kings also surprisingly have 11 drafted plyers on their roster while staying mostly competitive and w/o kicking Kopitar and Doughty to the curb. |
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Post by Hockey is great on Dec 16, 2023 14:46:32 GMT -6
Keenan won nothing and maybe if he did the right things they would have. Tallon stripped the team down to nothing. He added some vets he seen as quality. Cullimore, Aucoin, Lapointe etc. He thought he had a gem with Khabby. Khabby wanted the money and he got it. He went to Chicago to die. Whatever. If Tallon did exactly what you’ve clamoured for. There would not have been those 3 Cups. More than likely not even one. Pretty much every example you’ve give over the years those teams haven’t won anything. Even your cross sports examples of the Baltimore Orioles. Plain and simple. You need top talent. There’s really only one place to get that. And that’s picking very high in the draft. We don’t need to go over every team of recent years, but it’s true. This team was going to suck regardless for a few years. If they retained Toews, Kane, Dcat etc. they’d have barely one line to play, and no Bedard. No Korchinski etc. it takes time. I get it, no one’s patient. But a wise man once told me “If you’re not patient, you’ll become one”!!! Depends on what you mean be patient. Buffalo and Ottawa have been bad for years,both unloaded stars and both drafted STUDS at important positions,those STUDS are playing well and yet the two teams that had high expectations to start the year are a combined 5 games under 30 games in. The new GM's finishes will be 27th,30th and possibly 32nd this year,how many more bottom-five finishes are required. I AM patient this year and I only look for menial improvement the next two years too,but patience,like rebuilds,comes in many forms. Other than being more competitive now,the many cup-winning and PO experienced vets Detroit has added to their young players the last two years allow them the 'patience' to not rush any of their numerous high picks still in their system. To be fair,I'd say the best teams of the 'cap era',Hawks,Kings,Pens and TB have acquired most their best players through the draft,as did the Avs but all these teams had excellent support players acquired otherwise too. Some cup winners like LV acquired their best players through FA and trades. Of the four current division leaders,The Avs only have four drafted players left on their roster,LV has 5,the Rags have 8 and surprisingly aging Boston has 12 without ever becoming irrelevant. The aging Kings also surprisingly have 11 drafted plyers on their roster while staying mostly competitive and w/o kicking Kopitar and Doughty to the curb. really don’t think you can hold the first year on Davidson with all the crap that was going on from Stan and Jeremy. |
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Post by BigT on Dec 16, 2023 14:59:57 GMT -6
Keenan won nothing and maybe if he did the right things they would have. Tallon stripped the team down to nothing. He added some vets he seen as quality. Cullimore, Aucoin, Lapointe etc. He thought he had a gem with Khabby. Khabby wanted the money and he got it. He went to Chicago to die. Whatever. If Tallon did exactly what you’ve clamoured for. There would not have been those 3 Cups. More than likely not even one. Pretty much every example you’ve give over the years those teams haven’t won anything. Even your cross sports examples of the Baltimore Orioles. Plain and simple. You need top talent. There’s really only one place to get that. And that’s picking very high in the draft. We don’t need to go over every team of recent years, but it’s true. This team was going to suck regardless for a few years. If they retained Toews, Kane, Dcat etc. they’d have barely one line to play, and no Bedard. No Korchinski etc. it takes time. I get it, no one’s patient. But a wise man once told me “If you’re not patient, you’ll become one”!!! Depends on what you mean be patient. Buffalo and Ottawa have been bad for years,both unloaded stars and both drafted STUDS at important positions,those STUDS are playing well and yet the two teams that had high expectations to start the year are a combined 5 games under 30 games in. The new GM's finishes will be 27th,30th and possibly 32nd this year,how many more bottom-five finishes are required? I AM patient this year and I only look for menial improvement the next two years too,but patience,like rebuilds,comes in many forms. Other than being more competitive now,the many cup-winning and PO experienced vets Detroit has added to their young players the last two years allows them the 'patience' to not rush any of their numerous high picks still in their system. To be fair,I'd say the best teams of the 'cap era',Hawks,Kings,Pens and TB have acquired most their best players through the draft,as did the Avs but all these teams had excellent support players acquired otherwise too. Some cup winners like LV acquired their best players through FA and trades. Of the four current division leaders,The Avs only have four drafted players left on their roster,LV has 5,the Rags have 8 and surprisingly aging Boston has 12 without ever becoming irrelevant. The aging Kings also surprisingly have 11 drafted plyers on their roster while staying mostly competitive and w/o kicking Kopitar and Doughty to the curb. The Sens and Buffalo just couldn’t afford their guys or they wanted out, for various reasons. Eichel was totally understandable. As far as LA goes. They tanked pretty hard for 3-4 years. Just never won the lotto. Came close. My fear with them is that they have no cap space left for the kids coming in. Getting PLD was unnecessary in my opinion. Unless Kopitar is gonna retire here soon. So let’s say Byfield becomes that hulking power forward they want. And he’s due 8+ million. Not sure where that’s coming from. Adding Fiala, PLD and Denault wasn’t really warranted in my opinion. They had kids coming. Now they’re a playoff team. That’s about as far as she goes. If that’s what they want. Great, they’ve got it. And the West will only be shitty for a limited time. Their success is mainly in part to a horrible western conference. That’ll change quick. Even the humble Coyotes seem to be clawing their way up the standings!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Dec 16, 2023 15:09:58 GMT -6
Depends on what you mean be patient. Buffalo and Ottawa have been bad for years,both unloaded stars and both drafted STUDS at important positions,those STUDS are playing well and yet the two teams that had high expectations to start the year are a combined 5 games under 30 games in. The new GM's finishes will be 27th,30th and possibly 32nd this year,how many more bottom-five finishes are required. I AM patient this year and I only look for menial improvement the next two years too,but patience,like rebuilds,comes in many forms. Other than being more competitive now,the many cup-winning and PO experienced vets Detroit has added to their young players the last two years allow them the 'patience' to not rush any of their numerous high picks still in their system. To be fair,I'd say the best teams of the 'cap era',Hawks,Kings,Pens and TB have acquired most their best players through the draft,as did the Avs but all these teams had excellent support players acquired otherwise too. Some cup winners like LV acquired their best players through FA and trades. Of the four current division leaders,The Avs only have four drafted players left on their roster,LV has 5,the Rags have 8 and surprisingly aging Boston has 12 without ever becoming irrelevant. The aging Kings also surprisingly have 11 drafted plyers on their roster while staying mostly competitive and w/o kicking Kopitar and Doughty to the curb. really don’t think you can hold the first year on Davidson with all the crap that was going on from Stan and Jeremy. I'm not putting 21-22 'on' anyone,just like I won't put the dismal finish last year and the one to come this year 'on' anyone,but those finishes along with moving-out some very good,young players will result in a historical draft advantage none the less,which was my point. |
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