Kyle Davidson as G.M.

[hsbob]

Dec 16, 2023 14:12:41 GMT -6 mvr said:

I am quite happy dollar-cost-averaging a couple of hundred every month with S&P 500 ETFs. Year after year, the portfolio grows another 8-10%.

You can stick with your lottery tickets, tech/marijuana stocks..... We will see where we are in 10 years.

A properly constructed investment portfolio will have a diversified mix of risk/growth assets along with a healthy amount of steady,dividend paying equities like blue-chips,solid ETF's or even treasuries for income depending on the investors age IMO. The best sector funds with the lowest fees have indeed produced the 8-10% returns and they do so consistently, that's why I own a good deal of a VYM and a few others but Apple and AMD have been my stars. 

Maybe a well-constructed hockey team should have a mix too.
 

[2old4this]

Index Funds

[Hockey is great]

Only Fans 😜

[hsbob]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaCHH5D74Fs

[mvr]

Dec 16, 2023 15:44:57 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Dec 16, 2023 14:12:41 GMT -6 mvr said:

I am quite happy dollar-cost-averaging a couple of hundred every month with S&P 500 ETFs. Year after year, the portfolio grows another 8-10%.

You can stick with your lottery tickets, tech/marijuana stocks..... We will see where we are in 10 years.

A properly constructed investment portfolio will have a diversified mix of risk/growth assets along with a healthy amount of steady,dividend paying equities like blue-chips,solid ETF's or even treasuries for income depending on the investors age IMO. The best sector funds with the lowest fees have indeed produced the 8-10% returns and they do so consistently, that's why I own a good deal of a VYM and a few others but Apple and AMD have been my stars. 

Maybe a well-constructed hockey team should have a mix too.
 

The large cost-effective ETFs contain a broad mix both the growth and the dividend paying stocks including the big seven.   I diversify to include low cost world ETFs both small and large cap.    I don't think you need much else other than perhaps a diversified bond index and some treasuries (but that's only necessary if you lack a pension plan).   

The key I believe is maintaining a consistent investment purchase plan each month and not swinging for the fences. 

You keep adding, and you don't sell (just like when constructing a hockey team).

[steamer]

There are probably as many differences as there are parallels in comparing hockey to an investment portfolio. But one that you’ve all touched on is not having all of the same style of player. The investment disasters and “swinging for the fences” is having too many of the same type of growth stocks or players on the team. If they’re all phenomenal skaters but can’t take or deliver hits you have an expensive team that’s not going to get it done. For example, I wonder if the Devils have too much of the fancy front liners and not enough snarl. So I am hoping Davidson doesn’t take this “only great skating” thing too far. Also - get a top GT!!! Lightning would not have been as effective without theirs despite the talented front end.

[LordKOTL]

Investments aside, i think where we are has to be taken under consideration.

Comparing the last build, how many of the guys that Smith and Tallon acquired were there when we started to be cup contenders? Where was Munro? Where was Ruutu? Where was Vrbata? Where were Cullimore and Aucoin?

The bulk might not be here if Kyle from Chicago does build the team to Deep Run status.

Further, they also sent away guys who did well elsewhere for trash. McCabe for Karpo?

Right now has a lot of similarities to 2006. we have a couple of guys who may very well be the future, along with a couple of vets to keep around for awhile, but the rest are placeholders. The team also sucked.

I don't think Kyle has done bad. Not all of his moves were good but I think he's done better than his predecessor...thus far. Time will tell, though. I would like to see fill in players start to trickle in where we don't have players in the system, but the rest of our lineup is bad, injured, or the prospects are ones to try to keep. But, it is still early in the build. We didn't have Havlat, much less Hossa, in 2006.

[hawkfaninpdx]

I was always a little queasy about the cynical way, in which Davidson wanted to ensure that the Hawks would finish at the bottom to have a chance at Bedard. That aside, as a thought experiment: would the team have been better off if it hadn't been dismantled. What if we still had: Strome, Hagel, DeBrincat, Dach, even Kubalik -- but did not end up with Bedard. It's hard to completely disentangle everything, because Bowman had traded away 1st round pick for Jones, which was a yuuuge mistake; the team was simply not ready to compete yet. Vlasic would still be here, as well as other D-men coming up through the ranks. 

I know that Dach was a disappointment -- or at least didn't live up to his draft position -- but he is still an NHL caliber player. As it stands now, Bedard has barely anyone to play with. He may finish with about 30g and 70+ points, but the only other player who may break 50 is Kurashev. This is hardly comparable to 07-08 season when Kane and Toews joined the team. Sharp led the team in goals with 36; you had players like Robert Lang, Havlat, Jason Williams, etc. Big Buf scored 19 from the blue line the year that T&K joined. By the time that the famed pair showed up, the Hawks had been on the upward trajectory for three years; they hit the bottom during the 03-04 season with 59pts. They will be fortunate to reach 59pts this year. So, this year is the bottom. However, try as I may, I do not see the team doing much better next year. 

PS: If we had all or some of the above players, perhaps Reichel would be doing a whole lot better. 

[hsbob]

Dec 18, 2023 10:12:34 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

Investments aside, i think where we are has to be taken under consideration.

Comparing the last build, how many of the guys that Smith and Tallon acquired were there when we started to be cup contenders? Where was Munro? Where was Ruutu? Where was Vrbata? Where were Cullimore and Aucoin?

The bulk might not be here if Kyle from Chicago does build the team to Deep Run status.

Further, they also sent away guys who did well elsewhere for trash. McCabe for Karpo?

Right now has a lot of similarities to 2006. we have a couple of guys who may very well be the future, along with a couple of vets to keep around for awhile, but the rest are placeholders. The team also sucked.

I don't think Kyle has done bad. Not all of his moves were good but I think he's done better than his predecessor...thus far. Time will tell, though. I would like to see fill in players start to trickle in where we don't have players in the system, but the rest of our lineup is bad, injured, or the prospects are ones to try to keep. But, it is still early in the build. We didn't have Havlat, much less Hossa, in 2006.

Doesn't the arrival of Bedard differentiate this year from '06' ? The 06-07 season ended with 71pts,Kane and Toews joined the team the following year and the team improved to 88pts and went to the WCF the year after.........I'll take that trajectory!   

I also have to think a few young D-men 'will' very well be part of the future,KK and a few others better be considering the price paid for their picks. 

The bulk might not be here? Even If we only consider the picks made by the new GM the last two years,that alone is FIVE 1st round,Five 2nd round and FIVE 3rd round picks. Add those 15 picks in the first 3 rounds the last two drafts to the two 1st's,three 2nd's and two 3rd's next summr, and that'll be TWENTY TWO prospects in the system at that point that came from rounds 1-3 alone,there'll be later round picks in that system also. There are still prosects in the system taken before the '22' draft as well but I think most of those guys have cooties!LOL! 
The team can keep ALL of it's own picks the next two drafts after this summer too and sill possess an extra 1st and two 2nd's. That's a LOT of early-round 'bulk' right there my friend and the results better dam well match,but no Cup team has ever built all their 'bulk' exclusively through the draft either.

I dunno how many kids between 18-20 any system can 'properly' accommodate at the same time but I guess we're gonna find out. 

    

[OldTimeHawky]

Dec 18, 2023 12:17:04 GMT -6 hawkfaninpdx said:

I was always a little queasy about the cynical way, in which Davidson wanted to ensure that the Hawks would finish at the bottom to have a chance at Bedard. That aside, as a thought experiment: would the team have been better off if it hadn't been dismantled. What if we still had: Strome, Hagel, DeBrincat, Dach, even Kubalik -- but did not end up with Bedard. It's hard to completely disentangle everything, because Bowman had traded away 1st round pick for Jones, which was a yuuuge mistake; the team was simply not ready to compete yet. Vlasic would still be here, as well as other D-men coming up through the ranks. 

I know that Dach was a disappointment -- or at least didn't live up to his draft position -- but he is still an NHL caliber player. As it stands now, Bedard has barely anyone to play with. He may finish with about 30g and 70+ points, but the only other player who may break 50 is Kurashev. This is hardly comparable to 07-08 season when Kane and Toews joined the team. Sharp led the team in goals with 36; you had players like Robert Lang, Havlat, Jason Williams, etc. Big Buf scored 19 from the blue line the year that T&K joined. By the time that the famed pair showed up, the Hawks had been on the upward trajectory for three years; they hit the bottom during the 03-04 season with 59pts. They will be fortunate to reach 59pts this year. So, this year is the bottom. However, try as I may, I do not see the team doing much better next year. 

PS: If we had all or some of the above players, perhaps Reichel would be doing a whole lot better. 

Dach started hot last season then was shut down due to injuries, and hasn't he been out since Tinordi hit him? He's damaged goods and gets hit a lot, I'm glad KD got Nazar and Hayes for him.

I love Debrincat but getting a potential top2 dman in Korchinski was the right move. Ludwinski with the 2nd round pick and a 3rd next year will only help in the depth chart.

Sucks KD couldn't get anything for Strome, Kubalik, and Lankinen, but if he kept them they wouldn't have finished at the bottom and got Bedard.

It's not the same as the last rebuild when there was only a few thousand people showing up and Tallon had to over pay players to come here.

But there is similarities in that the D were drafted a few years before the future core forwards were here. Vlasic in 2019 was the first, then Allan and Del Mastro could be next. And 3rd round monster Taige Harding. Phillips is looking good and Kaisers a long shot but has upside. Crevier could be a diamond in the rough.

Adding Korchinski and Rinzel with the many I mentioned, there's gonna be the next Keith, Seabs, and Hjalmarsson, hopefully with the same success.

And KD focused more on forwards the last 2 drafts. Bedard is here, Marcel² from this years draft is in Rockford, and more with turn pro next season and after that.

With free agents and trades, next season could be like 08 when they almost made the playoffs. A Bedard should be the captain his second season like Toews.

[mvr]

On the one hand, we all recognize that winning rosters are built typically through the draft. A team needs plenty of young talent especially now given the salary cap. Smart general managers hoard their picks.

On the other hand, the odds of success at the draft table start dropping dramatically after pick 5. By the end of round one, about half the picks don't really make it. It gets worse from there.

I have always believed teams should accumulate as many picks as possible. I like the idea of trading down to get more (especially if the team is picking outside the top 20). Success at the table improves by on placing bets on many numbers.

But in recent years, the Hawks have been trading away cost-controlled NHL talent (ie known commodities) for future picks (which are gambles). I recognize why Debrincat had to go given how Bowman had structured the contract. But there was no reason to trade Dach. Players such as Strome, Lankinen, Caleb Jones and Kubalik were all RFAs and could have been re-signed cheaply.

Given the odds, the likelihood that any one of recent draft picks (outside the first round) has a better career than the players Davidson kicked to the curb is fairly low.

Let's remember that a 2nd//3rd rounder with an NHL career exceeding 100 games is a success story.

[BigT]

The main reason why most don’t make it is because teams don’t wanna wait on a kid to properly develop. Some might need up to 4-5 years. Teams typically give em 2-3. Even by then they’re only 21 at most. They go to another farm system and are usually forgotten real soon.

Then the other factor is most kids are drafted for their scoring prowess. Not many wanna step away from that and play a role to earn an NHL paycheck. Bolland is one a very few who come to mind. He realized he couldn’t score like he did in junior so he decided he wanted to make millions being in the NHL. He’s lived a great life due to that decision.

Do you ever notice why rebuilding teams seem to hit more on their draft picks? It’s due to the fact that they take more time to develop and throw all the resources at them. Then when teams get better, they spend more of the resources at the NHL level.

The Hawks will be fine in this rebuild!!!

[steamer]

He’s had two developments that have not gone according to plan IMO. First was actually getting Bedard. I may be mistaken but I believe only the top 3 picks are actually playing this year. So if KD had drafted 4th he wouldn’t have had to worry as much about having some players around Bedard to be helpful. Then two of those that he chose are already done for the year. So he has some adjustments to the plan that are necessary.

[LordKOTL]

Dec 18, 2023 13:25:51 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Dec 18, 2023 10:12:34 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

Investments aside, i think where we are has to be taken under consideration.

Comparing the last build, how many of the guys that Smith and Tallon acquired were there when we started to be cup contenders? Where was Munro? Where was Ruutu? Where was Vrbata? Where were Cullimore and Aucoin?

The bulk might not be here if Kyle from Chicago does build the team to Deep Run status.

Further, they also sent away guys who did well elsewhere for trash. McCabe for Karpo?

Right now has a lot of similarities to 2006. we have a couple of guys who may very well be the future, along with a couple of vets to keep around for awhile, but the rest are placeholders. The team also sucked.

I don't think Kyle has done bad. Not all of his moves were good but I think he's done better than his predecessor...thus far. Time will tell, though. I would like to see fill in players start to trickle in where we don't have players in the system, but the rest of our lineup is bad, injured, or the prospects are ones to try to keep. But, it is still early in the build. We didn't have Havlat, much less Hossa, in 2006.

Doesn't the arrival of Bedard differentiate this year from '06' ? The 06-07 season ended with 71pts,Kane and Toews joined the team the following year and the team improved to 88pts and went to the WCF the year after.........I'll take that trajectory!   

I also have to think a few young D-men 'will' very well be part of the future,KK and a few others better be considering the price paid for their picks. 

The bulk might not be here? Even If we only consider the picks made by the new GM the last two years,that alone is FIVE 1st round,Five 2nd round and FIVE 3rd round picks. Add those 15 picks in the first 3 rounds the last two drafts to the two 1st's,three 2nd's and two 3rd's next summr, and that'll be TWENTY TWO prospects in the system at that point that came from rounds 1-3 alone,there'll be later round picks in that system also. There are still prosects in the system taken before the '22' draft as well but I think most of those guys have cooties!LOL! 
The team can keep ALL of it's own picks the next two drafts after this summer too and sill possess an extra 1st and two 2nd's. That's a LOT of early-round 'bulk' right there my friend and the results better dam well match,but no Cup team has ever built all their 'bulk' exclusively through the draft either.

I dunno how many kids between 18-20 any system can 'properly' accommodate at the same time but I guess we're gonna find out. 

    

I think 2006 is similar, not exact. Right now it looks like we have 1-2 guys who are ready right now, and a couple of guys who may make it in a year or two, but the rest is Bleh. and chances are they won't be here when the build is complete.

I think right now KD has to take a realistic look at what we have in the cupboard, and balance between development and filling in from outside, tempering that with a realistic assessment of who we have and what they are actually worth on the trade market.

We shouldn't be selling off assets to bottom out, but we shouldn't be selling off assets for stopgaps either. Waiver-wire might be good for stopgaps, but the FA market also needs to be looked at.

But realistically, right now, who do we have that is worth much to bring in a needed piece--and is not at this point looking like a future core member? I'd love for us to bring in someone via a trade who can give Bedard or Vlassic some help, but everyone we got is either worthless on the trade market or in our future plans, so I get the "standing pat" for now. Maybe something opens up at the TDL or draft.

[hsbob]

Dec 19, 2023 9:39:36 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

Dec 18, 2023 13:25:51 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Doesn't the arrival of Bedard differentiate this year from '06' ? The 06-07 season ended with 71pts,Kane and Toews joined the team the following year and the team improved to 88pts and went to the WCF the year after.........I'll take that trajectory!   

I also have to think a few young D-men 'will' very well be part of the future,KK and a few others better be considering the price paid for their picks. 

The bulk might not be here? Even If we only consider the picks made by the new GM the last two years,that alone is FIVE 1st round,Five 2nd round and FIVE 3rd round picks. Add those 15 picks in the first 3 rounds the last two drafts to the two 1st's,three 2nd's and two 3rd's next summr, and that'll be TWENTY TWO prospects in the system at that point that came from rounds 1-3 alone,there'll be later round picks in that system also. There are still prosects in the system taken before the '22' draft as well but I think most of those guys have cooties!LOL! 
The team can keep ALL of it's own picks the next two drafts after this summer too and sill possess an extra 1st and two 2nd's. That's a LOT of early-round 'bulk' right there my friend and the results better dam well match,but no Cup team has ever built all their 'bulk' exclusively through the draft either.

I dunno how many kids between 18-20 any system can 'properly' accommodate at the same time but I guess we're gonna find out. 

    

I think 2006 is similar, not exact. Right now it looks like we have 1-2 guys who are ready right now, and a couple of guys who may make it in a year or two, but the rest is Bleh. and chances are they won't be here when the build is complete.

I think right now KD has to take a realistic look at what we have in the cupboard, and balance between development and filling in from outside, tempering that with a realistic assessment of who we have and what they are actually worth on the trade market.

We shouldn't be selling off assets to bottom out, but we shouldn't be selling off assets for stopgaps either. Waiver-wire might be good for stopgaps, but the FA market also needs to be looked at. 

But realistically, right now, who do we have that is worth much to bring in a needed piece--and is not at this point looking like a future core member? I'd love for us to bring in someone via a trade who can give Bedard or Vlassic some help, but everyone we got is either worthless on the trade market or in our future plans, so I get the "standing pat" for now. Maybe something opens up at the TDL or draft.

Other than maybe a better forward to help keep Bedard's spirits up,I see NO need to improve NO other position this year. If the losses bother someone at this point,I have to think they were ill-prepared for the season. I know some of us wouldn't mind seeing a few kids go back to Rockford,but I believe these games are important and offer more than AHL games do. Will the mistakes of youth lead to a loss of confidence? All kids make em......coach em up! Will the losing lead to a lack of motivation or team attitude? Stop the losing to a reasonable extent........the team has EVERY opportunity to do so w/o parting with of anything of importance.  

I like the additions of Dickinson and Donato but their ages alone make them stop-gaps,but stop-gaps that can be useful when the team transitions to competitiveness,so I hope both stay. Foligno's our 2nd best forward and I hope he returns on another one-year too,if he was 2-3yrs younger,a 2-3yr deal would be in order IMO. I still might give him two because he brings a LOT to the table that the team is missing right now. 

1-2 guys who are ready now,and a couple more who may make it in a year or two and the rest Bleh out of the five 1st's,five 2nd's and five 3rd's coming from the last two drafts with two more 1st's,three more 2nd's and two more 3rd's on the way this summer sounds a bit underwhelming considering the massive hauls. That's not to mention the players drafted prior to '22',the many later-round picks in the system and the massive hauls coming in the two following drafts. 
I don't ever recall an NHL team possessing this type of draft abundance,after this summer's draft the team will have TWENTY TWO young players in their system taken in the first 3 rounds over a 3yr period and who knows how many taken in later rounds.........with two more hauls due in the following drafts. 

I'd really like to see the team target a few quality players in their early 20's,especially at forward,even if they're RFA's that require draft assets back........we got em!

I'd still start with Shane Pinto,I believe the kid can put his issue behind him and will be in need of a change of scenery. Ottawa won't have the space to sign him when he returns anyway. The 23yro 6'3" 200lb+ center potted 20 and won over 52% of his draws in his rookie debut and has SO much room to improve. 

They'll be other quality,young players that cap-strapped,draft-pick poor teams just won't have cap-space or a spot for and NO other team in the league will have the ability to capitalize on these opportunities like the Hawks can.......not even close.   

 

[mvr]

I read an article yesterday about a woman who regularly goes to thrift stores to look for bargains.

Recently, she scored big.

ca.style.yahoo.com/bought-3-99-virginia-thrift-171323818.html

My point is that Davidson needs to get some talent here. He has virtually nothing he is willing to dangle in trades (other than potentially low round picks). UFAs will not sign here willingly given the state of the present roster.

The woman above found her treasure because she engages in thrift store deals often. Davidson has added nothing via the waiver wire this year. He has made two very good cheap dumpster dive trades (ie Lafferty and Dickinson), but he needs to explore these kinds of moves much more often.


The present roster is beyond pathetic. "Standing pat" and waiting for draft picks to mature is a recipe for a marathon rebuild stretching potentially into 2030 or beyond.

[hsbob]

Dec 19, 2023 12:08:43 GMT -6 mvr said:

I read an article yesterday about a woman who regularly goes to thrift stores to look for bargains.

Recently, she scored big.

ca.style.yahoo.com/bought-3-99-virginia-thrift-171323818.html

My point is that Davidson needs to get some talent here. He has virtually nothing he is willing to dangle in trades (other than potentially low round picks). UFAs will not sign here willingly given the state of the present roster.

The woman above found her treasure because she engages in thrift store deals often. Davidson has added nothing via the waiver wire this year. He has made two very good cheap dumpster dive trades (ie Lafferty and Dickinson), but he needs to explore these kinds of moves much more often.


The present roster is beyond pathetic. "Standing pat" and waiting for draft picks to mature is a recipe for a marathon rebuild stretching potentially into 2030 or beyond.

I imagine you'd agree but IMO,after this year,the team can become more competitive and still wait for draft picks to mature. Joining a more competitive/cohesive group with a few players around em who can actually take the load off of em vs putting more on the kids is very conducive to proper,winning development. If anyone thinks the team will just be able to 'hit a switch' and become competitive when they choose.......forget it. Walk then run! 

[mvr]

I doubt many quality UFAs will be in any hurry to sign here for quite some time. The easiest other way to acquire proven talent is to take on other team's cap problems (similar to the Boston trade last summer).

Unfortunately, the big problem moving forward is that the cap is expected to grow dramatically in the next few years. There likely will be far fewer cap dump opportunities. I would like to see Davidson be aggressive right now while the contenders remain squeezed.

Once a team truly bottoms out, it becomes a huge challenge to replenish talent in a short time. It is one of the main reasons why I believe "tanking" is such a disastrous strategy in this sport.

[jacksalmon]

Dec 19, 2023 12:08:43 GMT -6 mvr said:

I read an article yesterday about a woman who regularly goes to thrift stores to look for bargains.

Recently, she scored big.

ca.style.yahoo.com/bought-3-99-virginia-thrift-171323818.html

My point is that Davidson needs to get some talent here. He has virtually nothing he is willing to dangle in trades (other than potentially low round picks). UFAs will not sign here willingly given the state of the present roster.

The woman above found her treasure because she engages in thrift store deals often. Davidson has added nothing via the waiver wire this year. He has made two very good cheap dumpster dive trades (ie Lafferty and Dickinson), but he needs to explore these kinds of moves much more often.


The present roster is beyond pathetic. "Standing pat" and waiting for draft picks to mature is a recipe for a marathon rebuild stretching potentially into 2030 or beyond.

So, if KD "has virtually nothing to dangle in trades" and "UFAs will  not sign here given the state of the present roster" and "waiting for draft picks to mature is a recipe for a marathon rebuild stretching potentially into 2030" why should we be optimistic about the rebuild and the soon to come Cup competitive team.  In addition, the rookie dmen may be pretty good and might get better, but they ain't Makar, or Quinn.  They are not shut down guys and certainly don't contribute much at all on offense, so, to me, the d corps will be functional but will not add goals to the bottom line.  It's looking more and more like KD is going to have to find many dollars in the pockets of the thrift clothes he is buying.  This is also based on my opinion that while the current drop of hopeful forwards (e.g. Moore, Nazar) are decent, they are NOT setting their leagues on fire with their point totals and if they can't do it there, they won't be huge point producers in the NHL.  So, don't be looking for them to be the next Larmer and they certainly ain't Savards, Roenicks, Kanes or Toews.  

[mvr]

Dec 19, 2023 16:48:05 GMT -6 jacksalmon said:

Dec 19, 2023 12:08:43 GMT -6 mvr said:

I read an article yesterday about a woman who regularly goes to thrift stores to look for bargains.

Recently, she scored big.

ca.style.yahoo.com/bought-3-99-virginia-thrift-171323818.html

My point is that Davidson needs to get some talent here. He has virtually nothing he is willing to dangle in trades (other than potentially low round picks). UFAs will not sign here willingly given the state of the present roster.

The woman above found her treasure because she engages in thrift store deals often. Davidson has added nothing via the waiver wire this year. He has made two very good cheap dumpster dive trades (ie Lafferty and Dickinson), but he needs to explore these kinds of moves much more often.


The present roster is beyond pathetic. "Standing pat" and waiting for draft picks to mature is a recipe for a marathon rebuild stretching potentially into 2030 or beyond.

So, if KD "has virtually nothing to dangle in trades" and "UFAs will  not sign here given the state of the present roster" and "waiting for draft picks to mature is a recipe for a marathon rebuild stretching potentially into 2030" why should we be optimistic about the rebuild and the soon to come Cup competitive team.  In addition, the rookie dmen may be pretty good and might get better, but they ain't Makar, or Quinn.  They are not shut down guys and certainly don't contribute much at all on offense, so, to me, the d corps will be functional but will not add goals to the bottom line.  It's looking more and more like KD is going to have to find many dollars in the pockets of the thrift clothes he is buying.  This is also based on my opinion that while the current drop of hopeful forwards (e.g. Moore, Nazar) are decent, they are NOT setting their leagues on fire with their point totals and if they can't do it there, they won't be huge point producers in the NHL.  So, don't be looking for them to be the next Larmer and they certainly ain't Savards, Roenicks, Kanes or Toews.  

We should not be optimistic.   

Clearly, Davidson and the Hawks ownership have dug themselves a huge hole.   They have nobody to blame but themselves for deliberately tanking and purging the roster of basically all the talent.   I see no early way out unless the general manager gets lucky often with some waiver wire pickups and bargain bin deals.   But he has to be willing to try first.   

Right now, I am not seeing any sign that he understands what needs to be done.   The Soviets destroyed their economy with a series of rigid centralized five year plans.  If team leadership is stuck on an agenda, they can't possibly capitalize on situations when they present themselves.   Innovation depends on the ability to change direction spontaneously.

[jacksalmon]

Dec 19, 2023 17:50:23 GMT -6 mvr said:

Dec 19, 2023 16:48:05 GMT -6 jacksalmon said:

So, if KD "has virtually nothing to dangle in trades" and "UFAs will  not sign here given the state of the present roster" and "waiting for draft picks to mature is a recipe for a marathon rebuild stretching potentially into 2030" why should we be optimistic about the rebuild and the soon to come Cup competitive team.  In addition, the rookie dmen may be pretty good and might get better, but they ain't Makar, or Quinn.  They are not shut down guys and certainly don't contribute much at all on offense, so, to me, the d corps will be functional but will not add goals to the bottom line.  It's looking more and more like KD is going to have to find many dollars in the pockets of the thrift clothes he is buying.  This is also based on my opinion that while the current drop of hopeful forwards (e.g. Moore, Nazar) are decent, they are NOT setting their leagues on fire with their point totals and if they can't do it there, they won't be huge point producers in the NHL.  So, don't be looking for them to be the next Larmer and they certainly ain't Savards, Roenicks, Kanes or Toews.  

We should not be optimistic.   

Clearly, Davidson and the Hawks ownership have dug themselves a huge hole.   They have nobody to blame but themselves for deliberately tanking and purging the roster of basically all the talent.   I see no early way out unless the general manager gets lucky often with some waiver wire pickups and bargain bin deals.   But he has to be willing to try first.   

Right now, I am not seeing any sign that he understands what needs to be done.   The Soviets destroyed their economy with a series of rigid centralized five year plans.  If team leadership is stuck on an agenda, they can't possibly capitalize on situations when they present themselves.   Innovation depends on the ability to change direction spontaneously.

What do you think has more merit, the Soviet five year plans, or the Hawk five year plan?  We already know that the Soviet five year plans did not work, so it is a bit of rigged question.  However, since it is possible for the Hawk five year plan to perform worse than the Soviet plans, it ultimately is a fair question to ask.  While the Soviets had a goal of producing a viable economy that brought a decent standard of living to its citizens; the Hawks' goal is to produce a Cup-competitive team.  We do know that the players will  achieve a decent standard of living, but we do not know whether they will be Cup-competitive.  

[mvr]

Tunnel vision is tunnel vision.

I am always more than a little suspicious of anyone with a "plan."

I prefer those who react sensibly and pragmatically as situations arise without narrowly boxing themselves in. Each situation is different. Nobody can read into the future. What we can do is maintain flexibility to maximize returns.

If i go to the grocery store with a long predetermined list of what I need for my week's plan, I am narrowing my available choices.   A smarter approach might be to build my meal plan based on what I find on sale.   Ideally, you want to be prepared for what might happen, but you don't want to be locked in to a narrow path.

[BigT]

Dec 19, 2023 19:14:11 GMT -6 mvr said:

Tunnel vision is tunnel vision.

I am always more than a little suspicious of anyone with a "plan."

I prefer those who react sensibly and pragmatically as situations arise without narrowly boxing themselves in. Each situation is different. Nobody can read into the future. What we can do is maintain flexibility to maximize returns.

If i go to the grocery store with a long predetermined list of what I need for my week's plan, I am narrowing my available choices.   A smarter approach might be to build my meal plan based on what I find on sale.   Ideally, you want to be prepared for what might happen, but you don't want to be locked in to a narrow path.

Hahahahaha. I love ya MVR. But you completely lost me here. I can’t even drum up a rebuttal to this.

I. I. I. Just can’t!!!

[hawkinmontreal]

Dec 19, 2023 12:43:04 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Dec 19, 2023 12:08:43 GMT -6 mvr said:

I read an article yesterday about a woman who regularly goes to thrift stores to look for bargains.

Recently, she scored big.

ca.style.yahoo.com/bought-3-99-virginia-thrift-171323818.html

My point is that Davidson needs to get some talent here. He has virtually nothing he is willing to dangle in trades (other than potentially low round picks). UFAs will not sign here willingly given the state of the present roster.

The woman above found her treasure because she engages in thrift store deals often. Davidson has added nothing via the waiver wire this year. He has made two very good cheap dumpster dive trades (ie Lafferty and Dickinson), but he needs to explore these kinds of moves much more often.


The present roster is beyond pathetic. "Standing pat" and waiting for draft picks to mature is a recipe for a marathon rebuild stretching potentially into 2030 or beyond.

I imagine you'd agree but IMO,after this year,the team can become more competitive and still wait for draft picks to mature. Joining a more competitive/cohesive group with a few players around em who can actually take the load off of em vs putting more on the kids is very conducive to proper,winning development. If anyone thinks the team will just be able to 'hit a switch' and become competitive when they choose.......forget it. Walk then run! 

Hey Bob, I think we need to be a little more optimistic about the current state of this team. I read posts about, how guys like a Moore and Lazar for example are small and they are only good skaters and majority of other Hawks prospects are cut from the same rug as those 2, the defense has no offensive upside, we have no Makars on this team. This is the first real rebuild year, people are forgetting this, patience is needed. In the end, who really cares how many wins the Hawks have, let the players develop and learn how to play at the pro level. I may be drinking my own opinion on this, but I think we have a real good future on the backend, there will be an extensive amount of learning and development, but the Hawks have the players to be very good on the backend. There are a few studs slated in the top 5 of the 2024 draft the Hawks will have a chance at, which is a positive and another first rounder from Tampa, time is needed. It’s going to take another 2-3 years for the Hawks to be even in the discussion of making the playoffs. 

[hsbob]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyh-JpWdGmQ

I don't know when or even if the team ends-up as a serious annual cup contender either,but I do know there's the capability to improve the team substantially when the FO wants to. Will top UFA's be attracted here? We don't need em yet. Will mid-grade UFA's be interested in playing with Bedard? I see no reason why not. I still prefer the RFA age players,some draft assets will have to be parted with but we got em. Got the cap-space to help a team out of a short term deal or two as well.

[hsbob]

Dec 19, 2023 22:48:26 GMT -6 hawkinmontreal said:

Dec 19, 2023 12:43:04 GMT -6 hsbob said:

I imagine you'd agree but IMO,after this year,the team can become more competitive and still wait for draft picks to mature. Joining a more competitive/cohesive group with a few players around em who can actually take the load off of em vs putting more on the kids is very conducive to proper,winning development. If anyone thinks the team will just be able to 'hit a switch' and become competitive when they choose.......forget it. Walk then run! 

Hey Bob, I think we need to be a little more optimistic about the current state of this team. I read posts about, how guys like a Moore and Lazar for example are small and they are only good skaters and majority of other Hawks prospects are cut from the same rug as those 2, the defense has no offensive upside, we have no Makars on this team. This is the first real rebuild year, people are forgetting this, patience is needed. In the end, who really cares how many wins the Hawks have, let the players develop and learn how to play at the pro level. I may be drinking my own opinion on this, but I think we have a real good future on the backend, there will be an extensive amount of learning and development, but the Hawks have the players to be very good on the backend. There are a few studs slated in the top 5 of the 2024 draft the Hawks will have a chance at, which is a positive and another first rounder from Tampa, time is needed. It’s going to take another 2-3 years for the Hawks to be even in the discussion of making the playoffs. 

I've mentioned the team's massive opportunity to improve just about every day,I don't predict success but I don't predict failure either. I also haven't gotten into any prospect discussions  pro or con,I wait till I see em with the big club these days before I say much. I have complimented the highly rated system though. I don't rag the team over it's record either because I expected it. Just about every comment you mentioned wasn't a post of mine. 
It is encouraging to see all the young D-men in the line-up and I am patient as far as the finished product is concerned, I just don't think the team needs to be a bottom feeder for much longer to complete the rebuild with all the picks allready here and to come again this summer.

[jacksalmon]

Dec 19, 2023 23:11:45 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Dec 19, 2023 22:48:26 GMT -6 hawkinmontreal said:

Hey Bob, I think we need to be a little more optimistic about the current state of this team. I read posts about, how guys like a Moore and Lazar for example are small and they are only good skaters and majority of other Hawks prospects are cut from the same rug as those 2, the defense has no offensive upside, we have no Makars on this team. This is the first real rebuild year, people are forgetting this, patience is needed. In the end, who really cares how many wins the Hawks have, let the players develop and learn how to play at the pro level. I may be drinking my own opinion on this, but I think we have a real good future on the backend, there will be an extensive amount of learning and development, but the Hawks have the players to be very good on the backend. There are a few studs slated in the top 5 of the 2024 draft the Hawks will have a chance at, which is a positive and another first rounder from Tampa, time is needed. It’s going to take another 2-3 years for the Hawks to be even in the discussion of making the playoffs. 

I've mentioned the team's massive opportunity to improve just about every day,I don't predict success but I don't predict failure either. I also haven't gotten into any prospect discussions  pro or con,I wait till I see em with the big club these days before I say much. I have complimented the highly rated system though. I don't rag the team over it's record either because I expected it. Just about every comment you mentioned wasn't a post of mine. 
It is encouraging to see all the young D-men in the line-up and I am patient as far as the finished product is concerned, I just don't think the team needs to be a bottom feeder for much longer to complete the rebuild with all the picks allready here and to come again this summer.

After a game like tonight, the rebuild is complete and now it is just a matter of picking a few more good vets.  But, more importantly, they played tonight as the equal, or better, than one of the so-called better teams in the league and stayed with them all the way.  So what if Makar wasn't there, they still had plenty of their big names available and they got outplayed and outhustled.  Piss on the Avs, they suck and won't be winning any Cups this year.  It was good to see the Hawks get the better of them, even if their victory string won't go on for very long.  

[hawkinmontreal]

Dec 19, 2023 23:11:45 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Dec 19, 2023 22:48:26 GMT -6 hawkinmontreal said:

Hey Bob, I think we need to be a little more optimistic about the current state of this team. I read posts about, how guys like a Moore and Lazar for example are small and they are only good skaters and majority of other Hawks prospects are cut from the same rug as those 2, the defense has no offensive upside, we have no Makars on this team. This is the first real rebuild year, people are forgetting this, patience is needed. In the end, who really cares how many wins the Hawks have, let the players develop and learn how to play at the pro level. I may be drinking my own opinion on this, but I think we have a real good future on the backend, there will be an extensive amount of learning and development, but the Hawks have the players to be very good on the backend. There are a few studs slated in the top 5 of the 2024 draft the Hawks will have a chance at, which is a positive and another first rounder from Tampa, time is needed. It’s going to take another 2-3 years for the Hawks to be even in the discussion of making the playoffs. 

I've mentioned the team's massive opportunity to improve just about every day,I don't predict success but I don't predict failure either. I also haven't gotten into any prospect discussions  pro or con,I wait till I see em with the big club these days before I say much. I have complimented the highly rated system though. I don't rag the team over it's record either because I expected it. Just about every comment you mentioned wasn't a post of mine. 
It is encouraging to see all the young D-men in the line-up and I am patient as far as the finished product is concerned, I just don't think the team needs to be a bottom feeder for much longer to complete the rebuild with all the picks allready here and to come again this summer.

I agree with you on the bottom feeders and yes I am sure without injuries to Hall and AA and the inconsistency of Reichel the team would be better, losing Perry didn’t help either, all issues the team needs to overcome. 
In terms of prospects, I truly believe you are right, until we see them play on the pro level, the Hawks don’t really know what they have. Hopefully KD can find some decent players to help fill the needed spots until our prospects are ready. 

[hsbob]

Dec 19, 2023 23:45:29 GMT -6 jacksalmon said:

Dec 19, 2023 23:11:45 GMT -6 hsbob said:

I've mentioned the team's massive opportunity to improve just about every day,I don't predict success but I don't predict failure either. I also haven't gotten into any prospect discussions  pro or con,I wait till I see em with the big club these days before I say much. I have complimented the highly rated system though. I don't rag the team over it's record either because I expected it. Just about every comment you mentioned wasn't a post of mine. 
It is encouraging to see all the young D-men in the line-up and I am patient as far as the finished product is concerned, I just don't think the team needs to be a bottom feeder for much longer to complete the rebuild with all the picks allready here and to come again this summer.

After a game like tonight, the rebuild is complete and now it is just a matter of picking a few more good vets.  But, more importantly, they played tonight as the equal, or better, than one of the so-called better teams in the league and stayed with them all the way.  So what if Makar wasn't there, they still had plenty of their big names available and they got outplayed and outhustled.  Piss on the Avs, they suck and won't be winning any Cups this year.  It was good to see the Hawks get the better of them, even if their victory string won't go on for very long.  

Not sure what to make of your first sentence but you know as well as I do that no single win or loss defines any team's season,let alone it's entire rebuilding plan.  I said some time back that the team will occasionally out-work better opponents and beat em on the nights when they don't have their 'legs' and even the best teams don't have their 'legs' every night. 

[LordKOTL]

Dec 19, 2023 12:03:41 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Dec 19, 2023 9:39:36 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

I think 2006 is similar, not exact. Right now it looks like we have 1-2 guys who are ready right now, and a couple of guys who may make it in a year or two, but the rest is Bleh. and chances are they won't be here when the build is complete.

I think right now KD has to take a realistic look at what we have in the cupboard, and balance between development and filling in from outside, tempering that with a realistic assessment of who we have and what they are actually worth on the trade market.

We shouldn't be selling off assets to bottom out, but we shouldn't be selling off assets for stopgaps either. Waiver-wire might be good for stopgaps, but the FA market also needs to be looked at. 

But realistically, right now, who do we have that is worth much to bring in a needed piece--and is not at this point looking like a future core member? I'd love for us to bring in someone via a trade who can give Bedard or Vlassic some help, but everyone we got is either worthless on the trade market or in our future plans, so I get the "standing pat" for now. Maybe something opens up at the TDL or draft.

Other than maybe a better forward to help keep Bedard's spirits up,I see NO need to improve NO other position this year. If the losses bother someone at this point,I have to think they were ill-prepared for the season. I know some of us wouldn't mind seeing a few kids go back to Rockford,but I believe these games are important and offer more than AHL games do. Will the mistakes of youth lead to a loss of confidence? All kids make em......coach em up! Will the losing lead to a lack of motivation or team attitude? Stop the losing to a reasonable extent........the team has EVERY opportunity to do so w/o parting with of anything of importance.  

I like the additions of Dickinson and Donato but their ages alone make them stop-gaps,but stop-gaps that can be useful when the team transitions to competitiveness,so I hope both stay. Foligno's our 2nd best forward and I hope he returns on another one-year too,if he was 2-3yrs younger,a 2-3yr deal would be in order IMO. I still might give him two because he brings a LOT to the table that the team is missing right now. 

1-2 guys who are ready now,and a couple more who may make it in a year or two and the rest Bleh out of the five 1st's,five 2nd's and five 3rd's coming from the last two drafts with two more 1st's,three more 2nd's and two more 3rd's on the way this summer sounds a bit underwhelming considering the massive hauls. That's not to mention the players drafted prior to '22',the many later-round picks in the system and the massive hauls coming in the two following drafts. 
I don't ever recall an NHL team possessing this type of draft abundance,after this summer's draft the team will have TWENTY TWO young players in their system taken in the first 3 rounds over a 3yr period and who knows how many taken in later rounds.........with two more hauls due in the following drafts. 

I'd really like to see the team target a few quality players in their early 20's,especially at forward,even if they're RFA's that require draft assets back........we got em!

I'd still start with Shane Pinto,I believe the kid can put his issue behind him and will be in need of a change of scenery. Ottawa won't have the space to sign him when he returns anyway. The 23yro 6'3" 200lb+ center potted 20 and won over 52% of his draws in his rookie debut and has SO much room to improve. 

They'll be other quality,young players that cap-strapped,draft-pick poor teams just won't have cap-space or a spot for and NO other team in the league will have the ability to capitalize on these opportunities like the Hawks can.......not even close.   

 

Getting back to this, I think if there is a case where moving out XXX means a long-term improvement at that slot and position, and it doesn't cost the team an arm and a leg, why not take it?  I don't think there are many of those moves to be had, but hypothetically if we were able to move out Zaitszev or Murphy out for a younger, better stay-at-home RHD that won't cost a bluechip prospect, why not take it assuming all NTC's are satisfied?  Same up front.  For me it's not the losses that bug me.  I think we'll need to refine the team moving forward, and if there's a move now, why not?  If not don't press it.  Of course certain kids will need the chances and the development, I'm not denying that.  As long as the situation is not one where we're mortgaging the future to try and make the team better short-term, I'm good.  

Much of the rest we're on the same page on.  I think we need to start considering targeting 20-somethings that will fill in a definite slot if moves present themselves.  Maybe not now, but post-season.  We have draft and prospect capital at this point.  Even is someone is traded away and they flourish elsewhere, as long as we get something we need, it's all good.  Guys who look like they need changes of scenery should be looked at as well.