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Post by phill9 on Jun 17, 2022 16:27:13 GMT -6
If Q isn't allowed back, the idiot GM better not be allowed to return either. es.pn/3O2LdS9 |
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Post by BigT on Jun 17, 2022 16:52:36 GMT -6
Touchy subject. On one hand it’s nice to see the league taking this type of thing seriously. On the other hand, Stan or Q were more than likely thinking it was taken care of.
Stan was the GM. He’s more at fault than Q. But if Stans boss said he’d take care of it. That’s not on Q. My only fault to Stan is if something this serious should have been followed up by him.
But because McD was shitcanned never to be seen again. They need another scapegoat.
I am not a fan of Stan. But I think even he should be allowed back in!!!
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jun 17, 2022 17:31:52 GMT -6
That's complete bs, Q didn't want a known troublemaker to interfere with the 2010 Cup run but he's not to blame.
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Post by hsbob on Jun 18, 2022 9:23:47 GMT -6
That's complete bs, Q didn't want a known troublemaker to interfere with the 2010 Cup run but he's not to blame. I respect your opinion but let me ask you what Q should have done upon leaving that meeting?.......and let me ask you what you'd have done. The same goes for the last GM,he was Q's superior but his superior instructed him to go about his business also while the top guy would handle it. I don't want to absolve Q just because I admire him and YES,Aldrige was on HIS staff. Could he have put his foot down,disagreed with the CEO and said 'I want him off my staff immediately' and gone into the SCF w/o a video coach......he could have. SHOULD he have? Possibly IMO. I personally see what amounts to a one year suspension appropriate for this transgression. If this was an ongoing situation where either the last GM or HC had knowledge of and covered it up themselves,I'd see major culpability but both were made aware in a meeting with the team's highest ranking executive who assured everyone in the meeting it'd be handled properly. Both were basically forced from the game for a year and lost the resulting salary but it might not be enough since the league can't discipline the one responsible,McD and totally absolves ownership and their ongoing 'we knew nothing' LIE. McD's waiting until the SCF was over to report the incident to HR was by far the most egregious action in this whole shit show but WTF did HR do when they got their hands on it? They allowed Aldrege to resign,decided not to go to law enforcement and had their mental skills coach tell the victim he had some responsibility in what happened and I'm gonna believe the director of HR of the Chicago Black Hawks kept this from ownership? Rockwell wrote the Big checks but his and his family's reputation has stayed intact.........BIG CHECKS MATTER! I have as much or more compassion for victims of sexual assault,sexual abuse and on the job sexual intimidation as the next guy but in this particular instance with this PARTICULAR victim,I didn't want a troublemaker interfering with the 2010 cup run either..........and I'll sleep well at night. If the game's done with Q,I'm more than likely done with the game. NOBODY in that meeting went to law enforcement or HR afterward,including the holier than thou ex cop/AC who the victim confided in and the victim himself went to neither......why was that? |
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Post by vadarx on Jun 18, 2022 13:48:42 GMT -6
given the history of sexual abuse issues in the game, especially in the lower (younger) levels, and the current hockey Canada case, I am not sure why anyone would be surprised if it was at least a couple years before Q or Bowman or anyone else involved in the Beach case is allowed near the Big League.
one can debate the legitimacy of Q's being shut out of the league, ie "what was he supposed to do?" and I would agree with that, but let's also not pretend like he didn't come across real well in the report (which is why Florida had to do what they did).
also, Bettman is just talking right now, anyway. the issue is still relatively fresh and he is being asked about this at the pinnacle of his league's season. let's see what he says in a few months...
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Post by squishy24 on Jun 18, 2022 14:29:01 GMT -6
That's complete bs, Q didn't want a known troublemaker to interfere with the 2010 Cup run but he's not to blame. I respect your opinion but let me ask you what Q should have done upon leaving that meeting?.......and let me ask you what you'd have done. The same goes for the last GM,he was Q's superior but his superior instructed him to go about his business also while the top guy would handle it. I don't want to absolve Q just because I admire him and YES,Aldrige was on HIS staff. Could he have put his foot down,disagreed with the CEO and said 'I want him off my staff immediately' and gone into the SCF w/o a video coach......he could have. SHOULD he have? Possibly IMO. I personally see what amounts to a one year suspension appropriate for this transgression. If this was an ongoing situation where either the last GM or HC had knowledge of and covered it up themselves,I'd see major culpability but both were made aware in a meeting with the team's highest ranking executive who assured everyone in the meeting it'd be handled properly. Both were basically forced from the game for a year and lost the resulting salary but it might not be enough since the league can't discipline the one responsible,McD and totally absolves ownership and their ongoing 'we knew nothing' LIE. McD's waiting until the SCF was over to report the incident to HR was by far the most egregious action in this whole shit show but WTF did HR do when they got their hands on it? They allowed Aldrege to resign,decided not to go to law enforcement and had their mental skills coach tell the victim he had some responsibility in what happened and I'm gonna believe the director of HR of the Chicago Black Hawks kept this from ownership? Rockwell wrote the Big checks but his and his family's reputation has stayed intact.........BIG CHECKS MATTER! I have as much or more compassion for victims of sexual assault,sexual abuse and on the job sexual intimidation as the next guy but in this particular instance with this PARTICULAR victim,I didn't want a troublemaker interfering with the 2010 cup run either..........and I'll sleep well at night. If the game's done with Q,I'm more than likely done with the game. NOBODY in that meeting went to law enforcement or HR afterward,including the holier than thou ex cop/AC who the victim confided in and the victim himself went to neither......why was that? I agree with you but i think theres more to the incident/report of that meeting that we know. It seems like the punishment doesnt fit the crime (of the decision to focus on the cup instead of the sexual abuse). For example, maybe Q (or SB, or both) said “F Beach, we believe and stand by Aldrige” ultimately being the wrong thing to do. Just an example, making them more guilty of being irresponsible Also, ive said this before and i’ll say it again, how did Cheveldayoff got out from all the repercussions? Wasnt he in the same room/meeting when they decided to “focus on the cup and deal with the abuse later”? |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jun 18, 2022 18:03:56 GMT -6
I respect your opinion but let me ask you what Q should have done upon leaving that meeting?.......and let me ask you what you'd have done. The same goes for the last GM,he was Q's superior but his superior instructed him to go about his business also while the top guy would handle it. I don't want to absolve Q just because I admire him and YES,Aldrige was on HIS staff. Could he have put his foot down,disagreed with the CEO and said 'I want him off my staff immediately' and gone into the SCF w/o a video coach......he could have. SHOULD he have? Possibly IMO. I personally see what amounts to a one year suspension appropriate for this transgression. If this was an ongoing situation where either the last GM or HC had knowledge of and covered it up themselves,I'd see major culpability but both were made aware in a meeting with the team's highest ranking executive who assured everyone in the meeting it'd be handled properly. Both were basically forced from the game for a year and lost the resulting salary but it might not be enough since the league can't discipline the one responsible,McD and totally absolves ownership and their ongoing 'we knew nothing' LIE. McD's waiting until the SCF was over to report the incident to HR was by far the most egregious action in this whole shit show but WTF did HR do when they got their hands on it? They allowed Aldrege to resign,decided not to go to law enforcement and had their mental skills coach tell the victim he had some responsibility in what happened and I'm gonna believe the director of HR of the Chicago Black Hawks kept this from ownership? Rockwell wrote the Big checks but his and his family's reputation has stayed intact.........BIG CHECKS MATTER! I have as much or more compassion for victims of sexual assault,sexual abuse and on the job sexual intimidation as the next guy but in this particular instance with this PARTICULAR victim,I didn't want a troublemaker interfering with the 2010 cup run either..........and I'll sleep well at night. If the game's done with Q,I'm more than likely done with the game. NOBODY in that meeting went to law enforcement or HR afterward,including the holier than thou ex cop/AC who the victim confided in and the victim himself went to neither......why was that? I agree with you but i think theres more to the incident/report of that meeting that we know. It seems like the punishment doesnt fit the crime (of the decision to focus on the cup instead of the sexual abuse). For example, maybe Q (or SB, or both) said “F Beach, we believe and stand by Aldrige” ultimately being the wrong thing to do. Just an example, making them more guilty of being irresponsible Also, ive said this before and i’ll say it again, how did Cheveldayoff got out from all the repercussions? Wasnt he in the same room/meeting when they decided to “focus on the cup and deal with the abuse later”? Again the Hawks were told they could not go to law enforcement, they would have done nothing. ONLY the "accuser" being an adult can file any charges. Beach was not a minor, he was 20 yrs old. Hawks did all legally they could which was fire Aldrich. Then they gave Beach a 4 year contract, which he couldn't make Q's team. Now why didn't whoever the guy was that told the team of what happened take Beach to the police? That guy resigned over the matter and washed his hands clean? And Sopel and the other players that knew and did nothing for the kid? Why? Until 11 years later. If those "adults" had helped Beach to the police maybe that 16 year old actual child would have been spared. A completely F'd up situation gone way worse than it should have. |
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Post by hsbob on Jun 19, 2022 8:19:16 GMT -6
given the history of sexual abuse issues in the game, especially in the lower (younger) levels, and the current hockey Canada case, I am not sure why anyone would be surprised if it was at least a couple years before Q or Bowman or anyone else involved in the Beach case is allowed near the Big League. one can debate the legitimacy of Q's being shut out of the league, ie "what was he supposed to do?" and I would agree with that, but let's also not pretend like he didn't come across real well in the report (which is why Florida had to do what they did). also, Bettman is just talking right now, anyway. the issue is still relatively fresh and he is being asked about this at the pinnacle of his league's season. let's see what he says in a few months... Ahh,the report! Another check written by the Wirtz's and wouldn't you know it......a favorable outcome for the family and the last GM in a way. What didn't come across well was the last GM's saying it was supposedly McD and Q who wanted to concentrate on the SCF instead........that was prominently stated by Danny Boy I believe at the same pressed where he attempted to absolve the last GM. I believe Q resigned after meeting with the league,saving Florida having to do anything but promote Burnette. We heard from the family saying they knew nothing and Danny Boy himself said 'we believe the SB we know today would have made a different decision' or some bullshit BUT we've head nothing from McD (nit-wit protection....LOL) OR Q. If I'm Q and a "couple more years" of exile,which basically ends my career and could easily cost a first ballot HoF induction if not an all together ban.....I'd have my say! |
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Post by hsbob on Jun 19, 2022 9:23:39 GMT -6
I respect your opinion but let me ask you what Q should have done upon leaving that meeting?.......and let me ask you what you'd have done. The same goes for the last GM,he was Q's superior but his superior instructed him to go about his business also while the top guy would handle it. I don't want to absolve Q just because I admire him and YES,Aldrige was on HIS staff. Could he have put his foot down,disagreed with the CEO and said 'I want him off my staff immediately' and gone into the SCF w/o a video coach......he could have. SHOULD he have? Possibly IMO. I personally see what amounts to a one year suspension appropriate for this transgression. If this was an ongoing situation where either the last GM or HC had knowledge of and covered it up themselves,I'd see major culpability but both were made aware in a meeting with the team's highest ranking executive who assured everyone in the meeting it'd be handled properly. Both were basically forced from the game for a year and lost the resulting salary but it might not be enough since the league can't discipline the one responsible,McD and totally absolves ownership and their ongoing 'we knew nothing' LIE. McD's waiting until the SCF was over to report the incident to HR was by far the most egregious action in this whole shit show but WTF did HR do when they got their hands on it? They allowed Aldrege to resign,decided not to go to law enforcement and had their mental skills coach tell the victim he had some responsibility in what happened and I'm gonna believe the director of HR of the Chicago Black Hawks kept this from ownership? Rockwell wrote the Big checks but his and his family's reputation has stayed intact.........BIG CHECKS MATTER! I have as much or more compassion for victims of sexual assault,sexual abuse and on the job sexual intimidation as the next guy but in this particular instance with this PARTICULAR victim,I didn't want a troublemaker interfering with the 2010 cup run either..........and I'll sleep well at night. If the game's done with Q,I'm more than likely done with the game. NOBODY in that meeting went to law enforcement or HR afterward,including the holier than thou ex cop/AC who the victim confided in and the victim himself went to neither......why was that? I agree with you but i think theres more to the incident/report of that meeting that we know. It seems like the punishment doesnt fit the crime (of the decision to focus on the cup instead of the sexual abuse). For example, maybe Q (or SB, or both) said “F Beach, we believe and stand by Aldrige” ultimately being the wrong thing to do. Just an example, making them more guilty of being irresponsible Also, ive said this before and i’ll say it again, how did Cheveldayoff got out from all the repercussions? Wasnt he in the same room/meeting when they decided to “focus on the cup and deal with the abuse later”? Wasn't Bergevin in the meeting too,he was Director of player personnel at the time? Wasn't the indignant,holier than thou ex cop/AC who the victim actually confided in at that meeting too? What'd he do afterward? Sopel said everybody else knew.......what'd everybody else do? Sopel also said he went directly to McD when he heard and was assured the issue was being handled. Why did Sopel go to McD instead of his GM or his HC,this takes balls no? Why is the iron-fisted,control freak CEO telling everyone the issue will be handled properly a legitimate explanation for critics like Sopel and Vincent and everyone else but an inditement for the GM and the HC? He was their boss too. |
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Post by hsbob on Jun 19, 2022 9:39:17 GMT -6
I agree with you but i think theres more to the incident/report of that meeting that we know. It seems like the punishment doesnt fit the crime (of the decision to focus on the cup instead of the sexual abuse). For example, maybe Q (or SB, or both) said “F Beach, we believe and stand by Aldrige” ultimately being the wrong thing to do. Just an example, making them more guilty of being irresponsible Also, ive said this before and i’ll say it again, how did Cheveldayoff got out from all the repercussions? Wasnt he in the same room/meeting when they decided to “focus on the cup and deal with the abuse later”? Again the Hawks were told they could not go to law enforcement, they would have done nothing. ONLY the "accuser" being an adult can file any charges. Beach was not a minor, he was 20 yrs old. Hawks did all legally they could which was fire Aldrich. Then they gave Beach a 4 year contract, which he couldn't make Q's team. Now why didn't whoever the guy was that told the team of what happened take Beach to the police? That guy resigned over the matter and washed his hands clean? And Sopel and the other players that knew and did nothing for the kid? Why? Until 11 years later. If those "adults" had helped Beach to the police maybe that 16 year old actual child would have been spared. A completely F'd up situation gone way worse than it should have. I agree with every word with the exception of the Org doing everything it legally could but I'm no legal expert either. From what I understand,McD DID go to the director of HR after the PO's were over and Aldrich WASN'T fired,he was allowed to resign w/o the mention or the black mark of the incident on his record. The Director of HR says he didn't inform ownership that one of their AC's has ben accused of molesting a young player(FUK ME!) and then the skills/mental AC told the young player/victim that he shared responsibility and that young player/victim pursued the matter no further until his career in Europe came to an end. This is how I understand the events to have happened and if so,how does the GM and HC at the time pay for the mistakes of the CEO and the Director of HR at the time......the issue was entirely in the hands of the later two and rightly so. |
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Post by nighbor on Jun 19, 2022 11:39:38 GMT -6
Human nature being what it is chances are it will happen again. I hope the league has put in place proper measures on how to deal with it.
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Post by steamer on Jun 20, 2022 7:54:41 GMT -6
Lots of very poor decisions by a number of people including Beach himself. We probably will never know the "truth" because whomever does start talking will do so from his biased vantage point. I think Q is more a victim of today's norms surrounding the topic of sexual abuse than because of his actual culpability.
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Post by BigT on Jun 21, 2022 17:41:42 GMT -6
Human nature being what it is chances are it will happen again. I hope the league has put in place proper measures on how to deal with it. That’s the problem I see. Even Stan Bowman shouldn’t be thrown to the wolves. I do believe he’s more at fault than Q, due to him being the General Manager. But not booted for life wrong. McDonough gets off like a condom at a whore house. And everyone else is left holding a bag of rancid shit. There was a reason he was shitcanned. And a reason no one’s heard from him. What a piece of degenerate shit he was!!! |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 8, 2024 20:19:17 GMT -6
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Post by vadarx on Jun 8, 2024 20:57:26 GMT -6
he doesn't seem to be in any hurry to let either come back. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 8, 2024 21:02:23 GMT -6
he doesn't seem to be in any hurry to let either come back. really. it's been that long now that i think both would likely appreciate a yes or no answer. |
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Post by vadarx on Jun 8, 2024 21:04:23 GMT -6
he doesn't seem to be in any hurry to let either come back. really. it's been that long now that i think both would likely appreciate a yes or no answer. I have a feeling they know the answer, Gary just isn't going to say one way or the other until he is ready to say yes. imo, anyway. it is still pretty fresh, people still talk about it. I doubt Q ever gets another chance due to his age. |
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Post by squishy24 on Jun 8, 2024 21:32:13 GMT -6
really. it's been that long now that i think both would likely appreciate a yes or no answer. I have a feeling they know the answer, Gary just isn't going to say one way or the other until he is ready to say yes. imo, anyway. it is still pretty fresh, people still talk about it. I doubt Q ever gets another chance due to his age. Rumors are Bettman isnt interested in reinstating them. If they do get reinstated, it will be with a new commissioner, whenever that maybe |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 8, 2024 21:45:58 GMT -6
really. it's been that long now that i think both would likely appreciate a yes or no answer. I have a feeling they know the answer, Gary just isn't going to say one way or the other until he is ready to say yes. imo, anyway. it is still pretty fresh, people still talk about it. I doubt Q ever gets another chance due to his age. it will be 3 years in october. i just don't get why bettman would keep them hanging like that. anyways...you're likely right about Q. at this point the thought of missing pickleball might be worse to him than missing a coaching job. : ) and bowman, i don't really care about his situation. |
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Post by BigT on Jun 8, 2024 22:13:20 GMT -6
I have a feeling they know the answer, Gary just isn't going to say one way or the other until he is ready to say yes. imo, anyway. it is still pretty fresh, people still talk about it. I doubt Q ever gets another chance due to his age. it will be 3 years in october. i just don't get why bettman would keep them hanging like that. anyways...you're likely right about Q. at this point the thought of missing pickleball might be worse to him than missing a coaching job. : ) and bowman, i don't really care about his situation. I would have to think Gary has talked to them. My best guess is he’s left the door open. If he didn’t, he’d of just said they’re not allowed back. I think Gary is just hoping that it gets too late for Q and he doesn’t want to comeback due to age. In a weird way, I think Gary is handling this the right way. No one wants to condemn the best coach of all time. I feel he’s just leaving well enough alone!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Jun 8, 2024 23:02:01 GMT -6
it will be 3 years in october. i just don't get why bettman would keep them hanging like that. anyways...you're likely right about Q. at this point the thought of missing pickleball might be worse to him than missing a coaching job. : ) and bowman, i don't really care about his situation. I would have to think Gary has talked to them. My best guess is he’s left the door open. If he didn’t, he’d of just said they’re not allowed back. I think Gary is just hoping that it gets too late for Q and he doesn’t want to comeback due to age. In a weird way, I think Gary is handling this the right way. No one wants to condemn the best coach of all time. I feel he’s just leaving well enough alone!!! pretty much. I'm sure he has told them the deal. at this point, in the court of public opinion, it is still too soon. it likely will remain so for Q until he is too old to come back. as a matter of fact, I'm not sure either will ever be able to come back without having to deal with questions about Beach and the League (especially one of their Original 6 members) doesn't want to deal with that. |
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Post by BigT on Jun 9, 2024 8:08:10 GMT -6
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Post by hsbob on Jun 9, 2024 10:00:31 GMT -6
At least Q had the balls to do a long,grueling interview recently and he answered every single question without hesitation. Q made a statement in that interview that I found startling,he said the seriousness and details of the allegations weren't mentioned in 'the meeting' and I'd have to assume this could be confirmed by Cheveldayoff and Bergevin,who were both in the meeting and since both are/were well respected hockey executives who avoided league scrutiny......should be considered believable. If true,what actions could Q possibly have taken? IF that was a total fabrication on Q's part,it'd be the ultimate disappointment for me,a continuation of the alleged cover-up and he'd be getting what he deserves. Since this claim was made publicly and since there were a number of others in 'the meeting',why has no one come out to either confirm it or deny it? The biggest glory seeking,attention whore in all of sports,John McDonough,went totally underground along with DUMBASS and ownership just had to say 'we knew nothing',while Q sat down for a hard-hitting,no holds barred interview.......who has something to hide? I hope Q doesn't go quietly,file a job-action against the league since he's never actually been suspended and get those in the room to testify to the claims that mgnt withheld the seriousness of the allegations. There's a reason McD has gone missing and has stayed missing,and there's a reason Danny praised DUMBASS in his presser when the report came out........'Jenner and Block' went easy on DUMBASS too.....for a reason. Keep both quiet and/or loyal and insulate 'The Family' at all costs. If Q's claim can be corroborated by Chevy and Bergy,why should he not be totally absolved? |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 9, 2024 19:46:04 GMT -6
*bump*
just a little nudge to move this thread to the top of this page.
unfortunately, my post elsewhere started a cavalcade of 10 posts which i have since moved to where i should have posted in the first place. (here)
if i don't bump this post, this thread would remain at the bottom of the first page and people might wonder where their posts that i moved went.
clear as mud?
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Post by BigT on Jun 9, 2024 20:00:15 GMT -6
Bob I fully agree with you. I just feel the league needed a warm body to show the masses that they’ve done something. If that is true that Q only had 5 minutes invested in the meeting and all he heard was that Alldick was hanging around and harassing the Rockford guys. What could he do? So how in the Sam hell did Chevy and Bergevin get off? They obviously knew too.
Also how did Reinhard Heydrich….. I mean Stan Bowman get the blessing from the Hawks? Saying he did nothing wrong? Yet Q was barely even mentioned by them. Or not in the best light.
This whole thing sucks. What else could Q do? If he had s correct in his comments. He really should get a lawsuit going. There’s another pending lawsuit, and nothing will change until that is in the rear view!!!
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 11, 2024 21:22:16 GMT -6
according to this cam and strick podcast, beach called the league office and said he would supports quenneville coaching again. listening to the 32 thoughts podcast right now (friedman/marek) which was aired at least 3 or 4 days after cam and strick podcast. friedman does concur that beach indeed called the league office but said it was too early to speculate what was said. he also said bettman would "come to a decision soon". podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/oh-my-bob/id1332150124?i=1000658348877friedman discusses it between 23:30 and 25:00 minutes in. |
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Post by hsbob on Jun 13, 2024 12:07:45 GMT -6
If Q's claim that he joined an already assembled meeting late and had few if any of the serious allegations shared with him is true,and that can be confirmed or denied by several well respected men in that room who were cleared of wrong-doing and should hold no bias......how did the report leave that out?
Was it because the report was 'bought and paid for'? Just make sure everybody realizes 'Rocky' didn't know and make sure to paint DUMBASS in the best light possible for some reason. Did the report mention what was said before Q joined the meeting? The team's Dir of HR withheld the fact that one of it's coaches might have sexually assaulted one of it's young players from ownership? REALLY?
The only mention of the meeting that I recall from the report was DUMBASS saying something to the effect that McD and Q were both for 'concentrating on the finals' w/o saying what he was for or what he knew and when he knew it. Under the bus they went.
McDouche and DUMBASS in nit-wit protection somewhere while Q's sittin' down for honest and open interviews says what?
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Post by hsbob on Jun 18, 2024 9:50:05 GMT -6
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Post by vadarx on Jun 18, 2024 13:39:25 GMT -6
I mean, if Beach comes out and tells everyone he thinks Q deserves to be allowed back in, I think that should be plenty good enough for Gary. that is the one thing that seems like it would end this debate pretty quickly...
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Post by hsbob on Jun 19, 2024 6:07:20 GMT -6
I mean, if Beach comes out and tells everyone he thinks Q deserves to be allowed back in, I think that should be plenty good enough for Gary. that is the one thing that seems like it would end this debate pretty quickly... He's already paid a high price for what's looking more and more like an organizational misdeed that he had nothing to do with. Three years of income for him's gotta be 15M or so,but the bigger price was not being able to finish what he started in Sunrise! His fingerprints are still all over that team and finishing off what he started would have been the crowning jewel for the career of the best HC since the advent of the salary cap. Q didn't have the version of 'Bob' we've seen the last two years or a healthy Ekblad for the PO's in '21' but that didn't stop the Cats from fighting the defending champs 'tooth n nail'.....with a 20yro in net. Nothing against 'Bruno',but maybe Q gets more outta the Cats against TB back in 22's 2nd round too. I have nothing but respect for Maurice but was there a better match-up HC than Q when series went long..... especially in later rounds? Closed three teams out in six games in three SCF's! |
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