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Post by LordKOTL on Dec 18, 2022 21:06:33 GMT -6
I think it's been worse before. Yeah, losing is sonewhat expected and accepted, but on the flipsife there's a plan. Contrast to a few years ago where we'd be losing, and the brass would try to fix it by mortgaging the future, even though the fans knew we needed to bring in the next gen, not riding the old gen and bringing in retreads, has-beens and never-will-bes. I understand where you are coming from Lord. But that’s a low bar I figure whoever was brought in had a plan. You might be older than me but I have never seen it this bad. All I am saying is this is the easy part of the plan anyone can put together a shit lineup. I get it. But I see it like this: The previous gen management would have likely passed on guys like Korch and Nazar, and likely gave up more picks because surely Hagel would have been the fountain of youth for the previous core. It's bad, yes. But so was the ABC line which was supposed to be the future. For now though, I'll enjoy them playing poorly.
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Post by galaxytrash on Dec 18, 2022 21:07:00 GMT -6
7 goals in last 7 games for the Hawks. 7 goals for the Rangers tonight. hawks have scored 3 goals in soderblom's last 5 starts.
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Post by bigbarn27 on Dec 18, 2022 21:19:50 GMT -6
I understand where you are coming from Lord. But that’s a low bar I figure whoever was brought in had a plan. You might be older than me but I have never seen it this bad. All I am saying is this is the easy part of the plan anyone can put together a shit lineup. I get it. But I see it like this: The previous gen management would have likely passed on guys like Korch and Nazar, and likely gave up more picks because surely Hagel would have been the fountain of youth for the previous core. It's bad, yes. But so was the ABC line which was supposed to be the future. For now though, I'll enjoy them playing poorly. I hear ya and I’ll continue to get angrier. I appreciate the back and forth it’s helpful!!
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Post by higgyhawk on Dec 18, 2022 22:35:21 GMT -6
HAWKS sucks now as much as last year in those first few games under Colliton
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Post by jacksalmon on Dec 18, 2022 23:13:36 GMT -6
If that action of Caleb Jones checking Soderblom into the back of his net right after the Rangers scored isn't enough to send both Kane and Toews running to Davidson's office tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. to demand a trade to any team that will take them, then they will never leave this year under any circumstances. Why the f would they want to stick around for bs like that mess? Those two need to get out of there asap before no one will take them because they will lose what credibility they have if they continue to stick around this waste of a franchise. It is hard to believe that anyone buys tickets to see this scam.
On the other hand, they have no choice but to play the trash they have, as this is just what they must go through to get better. It is unfortunate, though, that it takes so long to improve with no certainty that it will ever happen.
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Post by BigT on Dec 19, 2022 7:46:54 GMT -6
HAWKS sucks now as much as last year in those first few games under Colliton Absolutely. And last year the team was supposed to be primed to win a Cup or at least be a playoff team. The plan was awful last year. And no one was fired until the terrible Beach scandal. Both GM and coaches should have been cleaned out due to the record. Part of why the team is so bad is because the roster was turned over……… again. This is not a cop out. I’m just stating the obvious. The plan is to tank. They’re doing that. It’s probably worse than we thought. But it’s still right on schedule with what the management group had wanted. No one will remember this shit season or last. But we’ll remember the good times. I think at worst the Hawks will get a top 2 pick. The rules of the draft make it much harder for teams (like the Hawks did with Dach) to move up a lot. Worst a team can drop is 2 spots. So the Hawks will be last. So worst will be 3rd overall pick. There must be some sort of plan in place to go after some decent players this summer. I just don’t see them drafting Bedard. Putting him on a team of traveling Wilbury’s. And expecting something great. I feel the team will have to get better. Not playoff better, but maybe 5-10 worst team. Next year could easily be something like Bedard, Reichel, Korchinski all coming in to start off the rebuild. The year after you’ll see Nazar, Del Mastro and couple others. Half the rebuilt roster will be there in 2 years time. The other half will take another 2 years. But it won’t awful as now and at least the future will be on display. Hang in there!!!
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Post by hsbob on Dec 19, 2022 11:25:31 GMT -6
I understand where you are coming from Lord. But that’s a low bar I figure whoever was brought in had a plan. You might be older than me but I have never seen it this bad. All I am saying is this is the easy part of the plan anyone can put together a shit lineup. I get it. But I see it like this: The previous gen management would have likely passed on guys like Korch and Nazar, and likely gave up more picks because surely Hagel would have been the fountain of youth for the previous core. It's bad, yes. But so was the ABC line which was supposed to be the future. For now though, I'll enjoy them playing poorly. Fountain of youth for Tampa instead.
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Post by jacksalmon on Dec 19, 2022 11:42:49 GMT -6
HAWKS sucks now as much as last year in those first few games under Colliton Absolutely. And last year the team was supposed to be primed to win a Cup or at least be a playoff team. The plan was awful last year. And no one was fired until the terrible Beach scandal. Both GM and coaches should have been cleaned out due to the record. Part of why the team is so bad is because the roster was turned over……… again. This is not a cop out. I’m just stating the obvious. The plan is to tank. They’re doing that. It’s probably worse than we thought. But it’s still right on schedule with what the management group had wanted. No one will remember this shit season or last. But we’ll remember the good times. I think at worst the Hawks will get a top 2 pick. The rules of the draft make it much harder for teams (like the Hawks did with Dach) to move up a lot. Worst a team can drop is 2 spots. So the Hawks will be last. So worst will be 3rd overall pick. There must be some sort of plan in place to go after some decent players this summer. I just don’t see them drafting Bedard. Putting him on a team of traveling Wilbury’s. And expecting something great. I feel the team will have to get better. Not playoff better, but maybe 5-10 worst team. Next year could easily be something like Bedard, Reichel, Korchinski all coming in to start off the rebuild. The year after you’ll see Nazar, Del Mastro and couple others. Half the rebuilt roster will be there in 2 years time. The other half will take another 2 years. But it won’t awful as now and at least the future will be on display. Hang in there!!! T, I am confused by your post. First, you say: "I just don't see them drafting Bedard." Then, you say: "Next year could easily be something like Bedard, Reichel...." So, which is it? Do they take Bedard, if given the chance, or pass on him?
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Post by 2old4this on Dec 19, 2022 11:53:08 GMT -6
assuming they finish last overall, the chance will be a little under 25% that they draft first. Would they choose Bedard with the first overall pick? probably. But it's more likely they will end up drafting 3rd (50%)
edit: wow, they have really changed the percentages in the draft lotto.....as someone else states, percentage of first is about 18.5%.
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Post by BigT on Dec 19, 2022 14:15:49 GMT -6
Absolutely. And last year the team was supposed to be primed to win a Cup or at least be a playoff team. The plan was awful last year. And no one was fired until the terrible Beach scandal. Both GM and coaches should have been cleaned out due to the record. Part of why the team is so bad is because the roster was turned over……… again. This is not a cop out. I’m just stating the obvious. The plan is to tank. They’re doing that. It’s probably worse than we thought. But it’s still right on schedule with what the management group had wanted. No one will remember this shit season or last. But we’ll remember the good times. I think at worst the Hawks will get a top 2 pick. The rules of the draft make it much harder for teams (like the Hawks did with Dach) to move up a lot. Worst a team can drop is 2 spots. So the Hawks will be last. So worst will be 3rd overall pick. There must be some sort of plan in place to go after some decent players this summer. I just don’t see them drafting Bedard. Putting him on a team of traveling Wilbury’s. And expecting something great. I feel the team will have to get better. Not playoff better, but maybe 5-10 worst team. Next year could easily be something like Bedard, Reichel, Korchinski all coming in to start off the rebuild. The year after you’ll see Nazar, Del Mastro and couple others. Half the rebuilt roster will be there in 2 years time. The other half will take another 2 years. But it won’t awful as now and at least the future will be on display. Hang in there!!! T, I am confused by your post. First, you say: "I just don't see them drafting Bedard." Then, you say: "Next year could easily be something like Bedard, Reichel...." So, which is it? Do they take Bedard, if given the chance, or pass on him? I believe you’re misunderstanding what I said. I should have been clearer, or got my point across better. I don’t see them drafting Bedard and filling the team with shit. I see them drafting him and filling the team with better players. If 19/88 can’t make much of this roster, then a fresh 18 year old rookie isn’t gonna do much better. The way my punctuation cut off the sentence wasn’t right. But the words were all there!!!
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Post by jacksalmon on Dec 19, 2022 17:38:03 GMT -6
T, I am confused by your post. First, you say: "I just don't see them drafting Bedard." Then, you say: "Next year could easily be something like Bedard, Reichel...." So, which is it? Do they take Bedard, if given the chance, or pass on him? I believe you’re misunderstanding what I said. I should have been clearer, or got my point across better. I don’t see them drafting Bedard and filling the team with shit. I see them drafting him and filling the team with better players. If 19/88 can’t make much of this roster, then a fresh 18 year old rookie isn’t gonna do much better. The way my punctuation cut off the sentence wasn’t right. But the words were all there!!! Thank you for the clarification, sir. Makes perfect sense now and I agree with your thinking as expressed. Punctuation can make all the difference. I just hope they get the chance to draft him. They can worry about filling out the roster later.
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Post by BigT on Dec 19, 2022 19:58:13 GMT -6
I believe you’re misunderstanding what I said. I should have been clearer, or got my point across better. I don’t see them drafting Bedard and filling the team with shit. I see them drafting him and filling the team with better players. If 19/88 can’t make much of this roster, then a fresh 18 year old rookie isn’t gonna do much better. The way my punctuation cut off the sentence wasn’t right. But the words were all there!!! Thank you for the clarification, sir. Makes perfect sense now and I agree with your thinking as expressed. Punctuation can make all the difference. I just hope they get the chance to draft him. They can worry about filling out the roster later. I know it was an exhibition game tonight. But Bedard looked every part of the superstar tonight. Was he ever awesome. The assist to Wright was unreal. He’s gonna be a good one. So now that the on ice product is doing their job. We need the lotto balls to do their job. I know we’ve beaten this to death. But I’d love to see 19/88 leave for a half hour and chase another Cup. Help the Hawks fill the cupboards. Come back next year as they were and help lead Bedard and the others to the promised land!!!
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Post by LordKOTL on Dec 20, 2022 9:41:02 GMT -6
I get it. But I see it like this: The previous gen management would have likely passed on guys like Korch and Nazar, and likely gave up more picks because surely Hagel would have been the fountain of youth for the previous core. It's bad, yes. But so was the ABC line which was supposed to be the future. For now though, I'll enjoy them playing poorly. Fountain of youth for Tampa instead. As bitter of a pill as it is to swallow, Hagel was only able to help the team to a .434% for the team last year at the time of his departure. Hagel is not Toews, not Kane, not Hossa, not Lemieux, nor is he Gretzky. Neither he, Debrincat, nor any other previous favorite of ours would be able to take what we've been icing or are currently icing and turn the goat piss we are into gasoline we fans want the team to be, and the only realistic way forward is to rebuild the pipeline which was pillaged by the previous gen. If that means moving on from guys like Hagel, it sucks but we gotta do it even if there aren't any guarantees. Better this and reliving 2004/2006 for shots at getting cornerstone pieces developing than hovering between 17-21 in the league and stuck there for a decade or more.
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Post by T-man2010 on Dec 20, 2022 10:06:47 GMT -6
Fountain of youth for Tampa instead. As bitter of a pill as it is to swallow, Hagel was only able to help the team to a .434% for the team last year at the time of his departure. Hagel is not Toews, not Kane, not Hossa, not Lemieux, nor is he Gretzky. Neither he, Debrincat, nor any other previous favorite of ours would be able to take what we've been icing or are currently icing and turn the goat piss we are into gasoline we fans want the team to be, and the only realistic way forward is to rebuild the pipeline which was pillaged by the previous gen. If that means moving on from guys like Hagel, it sucks but we gotta do it even if there aren't any guarantees. Better this and reliving 2004/2006 for shots at getting cornerstone pieces developing than hovering between 17-21 in the league and stuck there for a decade or more. It was a blessing to Hagel, Cat, Strome and any others that they were traded to teams that have systems already in place. Here they would be rotting away for the next 3 years min. till the team was rebuilt.
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Post by jacksalmon on Dec 20, 2022 11:01:36 GMT -6
Thank you for the clarification, sir. Makes perfect sense now and I agree with your thinking as expressed. Punctuation can make all the difference. I just hope they get the chance to draft him. They can worry about filling out the roster later. I know it was an exhibition game tonight. But Bedard looked every part of the superstar tonight. Was he ever awesome. The assist to Wright was unreal. He’s gonna be a good one. So now that the on ice product is doing their job. We need the lotto balls to do their job. I know we’ve beaten this to death. But I’d love to see 19/88 leave for a half hour and chase another Cup. Help the Hawks fill the cupboards. Come back next year as they were and help lead Bedard and the others to the promised land!!! I could live with those steps.
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Post by hsbob on Dec 20, 2022 11:09:50 GMT -6
Fountain of youth for Tampa instead. As bitter of a pill as it is to swallow, Hagel was only able to help the team to a .434% for the team last year at the time of his departure. Hagel is not Toews, not Kane, not Hossa, not Lemieux, nor is he Gretzky. Neither he, Debrincat, nor any other previous favorite of ours would be able to take what we've been icing or are currently icing and turn the goat piss we are into gasoline we fans want the team to be, and the only realistic way forward is to rebuild the pipeline which was pillaged by the previous gen. If that means moving on from guys like Hagel, it sucks but we gotta do it even if there aren't any guarantees. Better this and reliving 2004/2006 for shots at getting cornerstone pieces developing than hovering between 17-21 in the league and stuck there for a decade or more. I NEVER compared Hagel to any of those players and I doubt we'll compare any of the guys we get from those picks to those players either. No player ever born could make this goat piss anything other than goat piss and all the guys we ain't even drafted yet might not either. It is a GOD DAMED shame our system was such a shambles because I believe most teams would include outstanding 23 and 24yros in their rebuild plans but we had to trade ours and I'm good with it since we did all of em a huge favor. And 'outstanding' is exactly what Hagle's been for Tampa,top-six,1st PP unit,1st PK unit and on pace for 30+/70+ for 1.5M this year and next! I know the team needed the picks........GOD DAMED shame though.
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Post by T-man2010 on Dec 20, 2022 12:40:03 GMT -6
As bitter of a pill as it is to swallow, Hagel was only able to help the team to a .434% for the team last year at the time of his departure. Hagel is not Toews, not Kane, not Hossa, not Lemieux, nor is he Gretzky. Neither he, Debrincat, nor any other previous favorite of ours would be able to take what we've been icing or are currently icing and turn the goat piss we are into gasoline we fans want the team to be, and the only realistic way forward is to rebuild the pipeline which was pillaged by the previous gen. If that means moving on from guys like Hagel, it sucks but we gotta do it even if there aren't any guarantees. Better this and reliving 2004/2006 for shots at getting cornerstone pieces developing than hovering between 17-21 in the league and stuck there for a decade or more. I NEVER compared Hagel to any of those players and I doubt we'll compare any of the guys we get from those picks to those players either. No player ever born could make this goat piss anything other than goat piss and all the guys we ain't even drafted yet might not either. It is a GOD DAMED shame our system was such a shambles because I believe most teams would include outstanding 23 and 24yros in their rebuild plans but we had to trade ours and I'm good with it since we did all of em a huge favor. And 'outstanding' is exactly what Hagle's been for Tampa,top-six,1st PP unit,1st PK unit and on pace for 30+/70+ for 1.5M this year and next! I know the team needed the picks........GOD DAMED shame though. He's the type of player you add to the core. Not sure he was the core you build around.
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Post by 2old4this on Dec 20, 2022 13:19:07 GMT -6
Hagel just had a nice 4 goal week for the Bolts
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Post by LordKOTL on Dec 21, 2022 9:19:27 GMT -6
I NEVER compared Hagel to any of those players and I doubt we'll compare any of the guys we get from those picks to those players either. No player ever born could make this goat piss anything other than goat piss and all the guys we ain't even drafted yet might not either. It is a GOD DAMED shame our system was such a shambles because I believe most teams would include outstanding 23 and 24yros in their rebuild plans but we had to trade ours and I'm good with it since we did all of em a huge favor. And 'outstanding' is exactly what Hagle's been for Tampa,top-six,1st PP unit,1st PK unit and on pace for 30+/70+ for 1.5M this year and next! I know the team needed the picks........GOD DAMED shame though. He's the type of player you add to the core. Not sure he was the core you build around. Exactly my point. Right player, wrong time.
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Post by bigbarn27 on Dec 21, 2022 10:54:32 GMT -6
He's the type of player you add to the core. Not sure he was the core you build around. Exactly my point. Right player, wrong time. maybe or maybe he would have been perfect to be on CB wing for a couple of years. He could keep up and tough enough to stick up for the kid. I could see building a team around him has everything im looking for in a leader. I just dont look at this in black and white right now you got nothing for him now if one of those picks turn into something I will change my tune and say you guys are 100% right.
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Post by hsbob on Dec 21, 2022 10:58:01 GMT -6
I NEVER compared Hagel to any of those players and I doubt we'll compare any of the guys we get from those picks to those players either. No player ever born could make this goat piss anything other than goat piss and all the guys we ain't even drafted yet might not either. It is a GOD DAMED shame our system was such a shambles because I believe most teams would include outstanding 23 and 24yros in their rebuild plans but we had to trade ours and I'm good with it since we did all of em a huge favor. And 'outstanding' is exactly what Hagle's been for Tampa,top-six,1st PP unit,1st PK unit and on pace for 30+/70+ for 1.5M this year and next! I know the team needed the picks........GOD DAMED shame though. He's the type of player you add to the core. Not sure he was the core you build around. I never said you build around him and I never compared him to the game's great player's either,I only point out his outstanding and still improving ability. The return was very good and unfortunately also very necessary but let's not let the lack of 1st round pick buzz/pedigree take away from his on-ice performance. He plays big minutes with two of the game's best players on one of the league's best teams in all situations and is on pace for 30+/70+ after a solid rookie year. Call it whatever you want.
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Post by jacksalmon on Dec 21, 2022 12:05:45 GMT -6
He's the type of player you add to the core. Not sure he was the core you build around. Exactly my point. Right player, wrong time. More like, right player, wrong franchise. But, nothing to cry about. Eventually, as soon as his last contract was complete with the Hawks, he would have gone free agent and got the hell away from this loser outfit anyway.
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Post by T-man2010 on Dec 21, 2022 16:14:17 GMT -6
He's the type of player you add to the core. Not sure he was the core you build around. I never said you build around him and I never compared him to the game's great player's either,I only point out his outstanding and still improving ability. The return was very good and unfortunately also very necessary but let's not let the lack of 1st round pick buzz/pedigree take away from his on-ice performance. He plays big minutes with two of the game's best players on one of the league's best teams in all situations and is on pace for 30+/70+ after a solid rookie year. Call it whatever you want. I never said that you said they should. I agreed with you about them being nice players to compliment the core, not be the core.
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Post by LordKOTL on Dec 21, 2022 17:53:58 GMT -6
Exactly my point. Right player, wrong time. More like, right player, wrong franchise. But, nothing to cry about. Eventually, as soon as his last contract was complete with the Hawks, he would have gone free agent and got the hell away from this loser outfit anyway. Can't disagree, but at some point the 'hawks should get back to having the generals and needing the soldiers. When? We don't know, but i think we're aways away from that point.
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Post by LordKOTL on Dec 21, 2022 18:01:23 GMT -6
Exactly my point. Right player, wrong time. maybe or maybe he would have been perfect to be on CB wing for a couple of years. He could keep up and tough enough to stick up for the kid. I could see building a team around him has everything im looking for in a leader. I just dont look at this in black and white right now you got nothing for him now if one of those picks turn into something I will change my tune and say you guys are 100% right. In theory I agree. But in practice? The back end is a clusterfuck of the Mongolian variety and won't ckear out soon unless we find a sucker to take Jones, Muphry, etc. If we loaded up with guys like Hagel, Debrincat, Bedard, etc, I believe we'd be a lot like Edmonton and likely capped when paydays become due from getting good backend talent...then they got bounced by the likes of the 'hawks. We sucked for a few years after Keith and Seabrook broke in, which got us Toews and Kane. Bedard, Fantilli, etc are single high-end pieces. We need more than one of those and Hagel is not a high-end piece. He's support. We still need more high-end pieces.
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Post by 2old4this on Dec 21, 2022 19:13:26 GMT -6
They have 2 firsts and 2 seconds in both '23 and '24. I think they have done an excellent job of drafting in '02 (not addressing the moves they made to get the picks). And I feel confident they will do a great job in the coming draft, and should get 2-3 high end pieces in the next 2 drafts. Just my opinion.
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Post by nighbor on Dec 21, 2022 20:25:55 GMT -6
maybe or maybe he would have been perfect to be on CB wing for a couple of years. He could keep up and tough enough to stick up for the kid. I could see building a team around him has everything im looking for in a leader. I just dont look at this in black and white right now you got nothing for him now if one of those picks turn into something I will change my tune and say you guys are 100% right. In theory I agree. But in practice? The back end is a clusterfuck of the Mongolian variety and won't ckear out soon unless we find a sucker to take Jones, Muphry, etc. If we loaded up with guys like Hagel, Debrincat, Bedard, etc, I believe we'd be a lot like Edmonton and likely capped when paydays become due from getting good backend talent...then they got bounced by the likes of the 'hawks. We sucked for a few years after Keith and Seabrook broke in, which got us Toews and Kane. Bedard, Fantilli, etc are single high-end pieces. We need more than one of those and Hagel is not a high-end piece. He's support. We still need more high-end pieces. If we win the lottery why stop at one. The team with the second pick will also need picks and over the next two seasons we have extra ones in the first two rounds.
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Post by LordKOTL on Dec 22, 2022 8:53:46 GMT -6
In theory I agree. But in practice? The back end is a clusterfuck of the Mongolian variety and won't ckear out soon unless we find a sucker to take Jones, Muphry, etc. If we loaded up with guys like Hagel, Debrincat, Bedard, etc, I believe we'd be a lot like Edmonton and likely capped when paydays become due from getting good backend talent...then they got bounced by the likes of the 'hawks. We sucked for a few years after Keith and Seabrook broke in, which got us Toews and Kane. Bedard, Fantilli, etc are single high-end pieces. We need more than one of those and Hagel is not a high-end piece. He's support. We still need more high-end pieces. If we win the lottery why stop at one. The team with the second pick will also need picks and over the next two seasons we have extra ones in the first two rounds. If a move could be made, why not? But I think we'd need more than just a late 1st round pick this draft to move up, and the cupboards are really kind of bare. Stranger things have happened.
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Post by hsbob on Dec 22, 2022 10:22:46 GMT -6
maybe or maybe he would have been perfect to be on CB wing for a couple of years. He could keep up and tough enough to stick up for the kid. I could see building a team around him has everything im looking for in a leader. I just dont look at this in black and white right now you got nothing for him now if one of those picks turn into something I will change my tune and say you guys are 100% right. In theory I agree. But in practice? The back end is a clusterfuck of the Mongolian variety and won't ckear out soon unless we find a sucker to take Jones, Muphry, etc. If we loaded up with guys like Hagel, Debrincat, Bedard, etc, I believe we'd be a lot like Edmonton and likely capped when paydays become due from getting good backend talent...then they got bounced by the likes of the 'hawks. We sucked for a few years after Keith and Seabrook broke in, which got us Toews and Kane. Bedard, Fantilli, etc are single high-end pieces. We need more than one of those and Hagel is not a high-end piece. He's support. We still need more high-end pieces. I'm just curious.what would Hagel have to do this year to be considered a "high end piece" IYO? If he finishes at his 30+/70+ pace,while playing 1st unit PP AND PK.......that's just a support player? He'll finish this season as a 24yro making 1.5M for another.......Tampa will NEVER look back! There's NO way KD coulda passed up the return for the player with the small sample size at the time of the trade but TB knew they were getting an offensive producer who still plays every shift like a #13 forward tryin' to keep his job.
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Post by LordKOTL on Dec 22, 2022 10:51:49 GMT -6
In theory I agree. But in practice? The back end is a clusterfuck of the Mongolian variety and won't ckear out soon unless we find a sucker to take Jones, Muphry, etc. If we loaded up with guys like Hagel, Debrincat, Bedard, etc, I believe we'd be a lot like Edmonton and likely capped when paydays become due from getting good backend talent...then they got bounced by the likes of the 'hawks. We sucked for a few years after Keith and Seabrook broke in, which got us Toews and Kane. Bedard, Fantilli, etc are single high-end pieces. We need more than one of those and Hagel is not a high-end piece. He's support. We still need more high-end pieces. I'm just curious.what would Hagel have to do this year to be considered a "high end piece" IYO? If he finishes at his 30+/70+ pace,while playing 1st unit PP AND PK.......that's just a support player? He'll finish this season as a 24yro making 1.5M for another.......Tampa will NEVER look back! There's NO way KD coulda passed up the return for the player with the small sample size at the time of the trade but TB knew they were getting an offensive producer who still plays every shift like a #13 forward tryin' to keep his job. Honestly, he'd have to be on the same echelon of Kane in his prime, Hossa in his prime, etc. A game breaker. Toews, Keith--they also are in that same high echelon. You may be right and he might become that player, and if he is all the better for him. It sucked losing him but in my opinion he, like Debrincat, might be good enough to keep us out of the cellar. Right player, wrong time. In my opinion there' nothing wrong with being a support piece. Sharp for us was a support piece in my opinion. High-end support piece, yes.
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