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Post by hsbob on Dec 22, 2022 11:42:05 GMT -6
I'm just curious.what would Hagel have to do this year to be considered a "high end piece" IYO? If he finishes at his 30+/70+ pace,while playing 1st unit PP AND PK.......that's just a support player? He'll finish this season as a 24yro making 1.5M for another.......Tampa will NEVER look back! There's NO way KD coulda passed up the return for the player with the small sample size at the time of the trade but TB knew they were getting an offensive producer who still plays every shift like a #13 forward tryin' to keep his job. Honestly, he'd have to be on the same echelon of Kane in his prime, Hossa in his prime, etc. A game breaker. Toews, Keith--they also are in that same high echelon. You may be right and he might become that player, and if he is all the better for him. It sucked losing him but in my opinion he, like Debrincat, might be good enough to keep us out of the cellar. Right player, wrong time. In my opinion there' nothing wrong with being a support piece. Sharp for us was a support piece in my opinion. High-end support piece, yes. If any one of the future 'phenoms' coming our way over the next 2-3 years(insert name here........)puts up a 30 or a few 40 goal seasons early on,I guarantee they'll be considered "core" or "high-end" or whatever other unobtainable phrases we want to use.......I GUARANTEE it. Perception is always reality. Maybe 24yros who averaged 36 goals a year through their first 5 seasons or 25-30 goals while playing the most important minutes on his new team are just complementary or support pieces but let's make sure we apply the same critical measuring stick to future players because I sure TF will! Will Bedard be a "support piece" if he pots 30-40 in his sophomore season? If not.......why not? He's small too,will he be called just a 'sniper' if he fills it up or will he be anointed the 'second coming'? If so.....why? Because of who drafted him? A young player has to be Kane or Hossa in their prime to be considered "high-end"? Let's remember that over the course of the next 3-5 years too,because I sure TF will! I too know the DIRE need for draft picks that facilitated trading the team's best two young players and 24 might be too old for a long term rebuild but producers are producers regardless of what lofty terms we want to use in describing them.
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Post by 2old4this on Dec 22, 2022 12:47:45 GMT -6
In theory I agree. But in practice? The back end is a clusterfuck of the Mongolian variety and won't ckear out soon unless we find a sucker to take Jones, Muphry, etc. If we loaded up with guys like Hagel, Debrincat, Bedard, etc, I believe we'd be a lot like Edmonton and likely capped when paydays become due from getting good backend talent...then they got bounced by the likes of the 'hawks. We sucked for a few years after Keith and Seabrook broke in, which got us Toews and Kane. Bedard, Fantilli, etc are single high-end pieces. We need more than one of those and Hagel is not a high-end piece. He's support. We still need more high-end pieces. It's rumored that Ottawa is interested in trading for Seth Jones. Ask and ye shall receive.
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Post by LordKOTL on Dec 23, 2022 13:38:37 GMT -6
In theory I agree. But in practice? The back end is a clusterfuck of the Mongolian variety and won't ckear out soon unless we find a sucker to take Jones, Muphry, etc. If we loaded up with guys like Hagel, Debrincat, Bedard, etc, I believe we'd be a lot like Edmonton and likely capped when paydays become due from getting good backend talent...then they got bounced by the likes of the 'hawks. We sucked for a few years after Keith and Seabrook broke in, which got us Toews and Kane. Bedard, Fantilli, etc are single high-end pieces. We need more than one of those and Hagel is not a high-end piece. He's support. We still need more high-end pieces. It's rumored that Ottawa is interested in trading for Seth Jones. Ask and ye shall receive. Key there is 'Rumor'. I'll believe it when I see it and if it happens, great! If not, well, we expected that. On here and the old main boards, there were rumors flying around every year between 2012 and 2020 that Crawford was going to be traded, because someone here "knew a guy", and yet that trade never materialized. I personally don't put much stock into rumors.
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Post by 2old4this on Dec 23, 2022 14:06:00 GMT -6
It's rumored that Ottawa is interested in trading for Seth Jones. Ask and ye shall receive. Key there is 'Rumor'. I'll believe it when I see it and if it happens, great! If not, well, we expected that. On here and the old main boards, there were rumors flying around every year between 2012 and 2020 that Crawford was going to be traded, because someone here "knew a guy", and yet that trade never materialized. I personally don't put much stock into rumors. Personally, I hope S Jones stays right here. Yeah, he is overpaid, but he is a legit #2 d-man.(don't judge his performance with this worthless team( IF the hawks were buyers, getting him for 7.5-8 mil would be reasonable. If you can find a team that would ask the hawks to pay less than 3 mil, it's a fair trade. MOre than that just doesn't make sense. So I hope this rumor is just that, and that nothing will come of it.
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Post by LordKOTL on Dec 23, 2022 15:21:44 GMT -6
Key there is 'Rumor'. I'll believe it when I see it and if it happens, great! If not, well, we expected that. On here and the old main boards, there were rumors flying around every year between 2012 and 2020 that Crawford was going to be traded, because someone here "knew a guy", and yet that trade never materialized. I personally don't put much stock into rumors. Personally, I hope S Jones stays right here. Yeah, he is overpaid, but he is a legit #2 d-man.(don't judge his performance with this worthless team( IF the hawks were buyers, getting him for 7.5-8 mil would be reasonable. If you can find a team that would ask the hawks to pay less than 3 mil, it's a fair trade. MOre than that just doesn't make sense. So I hope this rumor is just that, and that nothing will come of it.
Yeah, Jones is kinda like Campbell; pair him with a Hjammer and he'll shine...but we don't even have an Ersatz-Hjammer on the squad, hence he doesn't look as good as he probably should. Kinda not his fault he got that deal; hell, who here would turn it down? The reality is though 9.5 for 8 for a D-man who needs good support is a ton, and it's going to hurt for awhile...but, on the flipside we did fine with Khabi's boatanchor deal which was *really* bad when he first signed it. Here's hoping someone steps in and can support him, because Johnson, Murph, etc. can't do it.
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Post by vadarx on Dec 23, 2022 17:34:48 GMT -6
It's rumored that Ottawa is interested in trading for Seth Jones. Ask and ye shall receive. Key there is 'Rumor'. I'll believe it when I see it and if it happens, great! If not, well, we expected that. On here and the old main boards, there were rumors flying around every year between 2012 and 2020 that Crawford was going to be traded, because someone here "knew a guy", and yet that trade never materialized. I personally don't put much stock into rumors. fair. the rumor he is bringing up is from Friedman. he said that Ottawa asked about Jones but he didn't think it went any further than that. I doubt Seth is going anywhere for a few years...
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Post by hsbob on Dec 24, 2022 9:56:18 GMT -6
Credible source out of Ottawa claims the Sens wanted considerable $$$ retained and KD wants to retain none. Eight years is a long time to retain $$$ but what's what looks like a mid-round pick in this year's 1st round worth? IF the Sens got everybody back,Cat got hot and they gelled,the best I possibly see would be 8-10 games over and well out of the uber-tough PO picture out east......possibly a top ten if they struggle.
This also makes hitting the cap floor problematic if K&T go too,you can pick-up a bad contract or three with assets coming back but you can't ice too many at once IMO. It was one cold SOB last night,two days before X-mas,eight game slide and the faithful ain't seen a win in almost two months but 17K+ made it to the game regardless.......that could change in a hurry.
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