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Post by hsbob on Jul 27, 2022 14:17:25 GMT -6
My feeling is that the best future for both the Blackhawks and Toews and Kane would be to start the season in Chicago and then move on at the TDL. That way I believe that both sides would benefit the most of the situation. The Hawks would get a fairly decent return and the players would be sent to teams that are relevant at the time of the trade. I will always be a Blackhawks' fan, but I will have a special place in my heart for the all of the players that were parts of the 3 Cup-winning teams. Wouldn't it be great to see both Toews and Kane go to a team (like the Avs or similar in strength and with a future) and get another Cup or two for themselves. I know the chance of them both going to the same team at the same time would be slim, but that would sure be great to watch, wouldn't it? And fun to think about! The Avs have 3.9M in space w/o Kadri so a guy like 6MX1 Eric Johnson would have to come back but that's a bit problematic since he has a M-NTC and he also wears an A.....fun to think about though. Another fun spot to think about is Siberia......I mean Ottawa....LOL! They have a number of good young players now and they added veteran Giroux and D-Cat who Kane LOVES playing with. They have 18 players signed next year with 10.9M in space and they've expressed a willingness to trade next year's #1 for Chychrun so who knows. I believe the Hawks can also take on Bobby Ryan's 1.8MX2 buyout to help them even more and for an even better return.
There are also rumblings good,young forward Drake Bathereson could be caught up in the latest scandal.
Buffalo(for obvious reasons)has the space and surprisingly enough,Dallas has 11.46M in space(w/no LTIR) with 21 guys signed and next year's #1 intact. They need to re-do Ottinger though. The 23yro went 1.81/.954 in seven PO games last year.
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Toews
Jul 27, 2022 14:45:29 GMT -6
Post by mvr on Jul 27, 2022 14:45:29 GMT -6
I would like to see both traded if possible before the season starts.
I recognize their trade values likely peak closer to trade deadline. But in this situation, it would be more generous to the players to get them out of here. Why put them through the carnage unnecessarily? The trade return will not get that much better.
Toews seems to have made his decision. Oblige him ASAP. He deserves it.
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 27, 2022 21:14:39 GMT -6
I would like to see both traded if possible before the season starts. I recognize their trade values likely peak closer to trade deadline. But in this situation, it would be more generous to the players to get them out of here. Why put them through the carnage unnecessarily? The trade return will not get that much better. Toews seems to have made his decision. Oblige him ASAP. He deserves it. When other teams hear this from the player, they know they have the Hawks over a barrel and will never offer anything close to what their worth. They now know the player wants out, and all they have to do is wait till after the season and sign for a lot less than what they would have to give up. |
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Post by jaty84 on Jul 27, 2022 23:56:59 GMT -6
I would like to see both traded if possible before the season starts. I recognize their trade values likely peak closer to trade deadline. But in this situation, it would be more generous to the players to get them out of here. Why put them through the carnage unnecessarily? The trade return will not get that much better. Toews seems to have made his decision. Oblige him ASAP. He deserves it. When other teams hear this from the player, they know they have the Hawks over a barrel and will never offer anything close to what their worth. They now know the player wants out, and all they have to do is wait till after the season and sign for a lot less than what they would have to give up. Unless there are ten other teams interested in their services bidding against each other and topping their offers. I want to believe this will be the case of T&K. |
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Toews
Jul 28, 2022 7:23:08 GMT -6
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 28, 2022 7:23:08 GMT -6
When other teams hear this from the player, they know they have the Hawks over a barrel and will never offer anything close to what their worth. They now know the player wants out, and all they have to do is wait till after the season and sign for a lot less than what they would have to give up. Unless there are ten other teams interested in their services bidding against each other and topping their offers. I want to believe this will be the case of T&K. Especially for half price, there's already teams lining up to get Kane. Toews is still one of the best at faceoffs and in his own end, he'll be a perfect 3C on a contender, especially with his leadership abilities and experience. |
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Toews
Jul 28, 2022 8:23:45 GMT -6
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Post by BigT on Jul 28, 2022 8:23:45 GMT -6
One thing to keep in mind. GMs try not to rip other GMs off too much. One day you’ll need a favour, and that GM and his other buddies won’t help you. I think this was the case with the last guy. He never got good trade offers because apparently he wasn’t up front about Barkers ankle injury and he also bragged about Leddy. So he was a sour patch kid from the start!!!
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Toews
Jul 28, 2022 8:46:28 GMT -6
Post by hsbob on Jul 28, 2022 8:46:28 GMT -6
I would like to see both traded if possible before the season starts. I recognize their trade values likely peak closer to trade deadline. But in this situation, it would be more generous to the players to get them out of here. Why put them through the carnage unnecessarily? The trade return will not get that much better. Toews seems to have made his decision. Oblige him ASAP. He deserves it. When other teams hear this from the player, they know they have the Hawks over a barrel and will never offer anything close to what their worth. They now know the player wants out, and all they have to do is wait till after the season and sign for a lot less than what they would have to give up. Should the 15 year veteran/captain not do interviews, or should he not tell the truth if he does? As soon as the new GM attempts to trade either,the entire league will know they've waived.....right? If Kane waives.....will other teams know they have the Hawks over a barrel too? I'm sure JT informed the team of his stance long before he did the interview,so I doubt anyone was blind-sided and he's just confirming what most expected.......how many 34 year olds are up for a 5-7(hope for less than 49)year rebuild? |
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Post by 2old4this on Jul 28, 2022 9:09:16 GMT -6
T & K won't open themselves up to a trade with just anybody. They will give the names of perhaps 4 - 6 teams they would accept a trade with, assuming they want to be in or a run for another cup win.
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Post by hsbob on Jul 28, 2022 9:20:34 GMT -6
Unless there are ten other teams interested in their services bidding against each other and topping their offers. I want to believe this will be the case of T&K. Especially for half price, there's already teams lining up to get Kane. Toews is still one of the best at faceoffs and in his own end, he'll be a perfect 3C on a contender, especially with his leadership abilities and experience. Describing a 34yro hockey player as "fit and feisty" in the middle of summer ain't the worst thing and JT said he felt like he had a lot of hockey left in him at the end of the year. There doesn't seem to be lingering effects from the illness at this point and he's had a year to get er back in shape,is a 20+ 50+ 55%+ season with the right group out of the question? There are a few teams every spring that are really left 'wanting' after another good regular season. Leafs still can't advance,Cats finally did before they got sept and the Oil won two series before getting swept out themselves. I'm sure the Canes want more and the Rags will want more too........management of these teams have to decide if they have a talent deposit or a leadership deposit. Good teams that missed last year like the Stars and Isle will be lookin' to return,both have a ton of space and all their picks. Calgary is another interesting scenario with 20 players signed and 9.3M left over,what a group of centers that would be! They could work adding JT & Kane with the right $$$ retained........they have all but their 3rd next year to dangle. |
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Post by steamer on Jul 28, 2022 9:36:47 GMT -6
At least Toews has won 3 cups. Another 34 year old captain - Claude Giroux has zero. I have a lot of respect for both of them - much more for JT of course - and I hope they can enjoy their last several years of playing in the NHL wherever they go. I think JT has been treated well in Chicago and deservedly so. Can understand his frustration with where things stand but it shouldn't be directed at KD and it may not actually be despite what the media might wish to portray just to keep everyone riled up.
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Toews
Jul 28, 2022 19:20:49 GMT -6
Post by hawks27 on Jul 28, 2022 19:20:49 GMT -6
My feeling is that the best future for both the Blackhawks and Toews and Kane would be to start the season in Chicago and then move on at the TDL. That way I believe that both sides would benefit the most of the situation. The Hawks would get a fairly decent return and the players would be sent to teams that are relevant at the time of the trade. I will always be a Blackhawks' fan, but I will have a special place in my heart for the all of the players that were parts of the 3 Cup-winning teams. Wouldn't it be great to see both Toews and Kane go to a team (like the Avs or similar in strength and with a future) and get another Cup or two for themselves. I know the chance of them both going to the same team at the same time would be slim, but that would sure be great to watch, wouldn't it? What kind of return would you expect from a contending team at the TDL for either? At best it would look similar to what they got for Hagel, a couple fringe players and very late 1st round picks. While Hagel is much younger and didn't have the pedigree of Kane and Toews, he had a lower contract with a year still remaining plus he'll be a RFA. Teams will be getting 2 amazing players in Kane and Toews but both are nearing the end of their careers and UFA after the season. I just don't see the return being great, although I agree it's time to move on and get something. I just don't think it will be a great return. You're right that the players have the better of the deal the way I mentioned. But remember they also have the leverage to not accept a trade to a team other than ones they would like to join up. If they aren't moved (with their permission) at the trade deadline, they will just leave after the season and the Hawks will get zero return. I guess the Hawks will just have to accept the situation that the former GM has put them in and at least get something in return for the two great players. |
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Post by hawks27 on Jul 28, 2022 19:26:52 GMT -6
Thanks for posting those goals. I think I remember the game that he had vs the Canucks (the one Hawks lost on Campoli's turnover). I think that Toews had 3 goals as he brought them back and got them into OT, only to lose. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 28, 2022 19:56:52 GMT -6
Thanks for posting those goals. I think I remember the game that he had vs the Canucks (the one Hawks lost on Campoli's turnover). I think that Toews had 3 goals as he brought them back and got them into OT, only to lose. jonny got us back into it with a late shorty to send it to o/t but that was his only goal of the series. i think burrow's o/t goal that game was the second most deflating in my fandom career with chicago, losing out to lemaire's 55+ footer in 1971. when sharp missed that chance on the pp early in o/t, the tiniest voice in the back of my mind was whispering it might be over. |
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Post by Tater on Jul 29, 2022 0:45:32 GMT -6
Thanks for posting those goals. I think I remember the game that he had vs the Canucks ( the one Hawks lost on Campoli's turnover). I think that Toews had 3 goals as he brought them back and got them into OT, only to lose.
That botched clearing dump is etched in my brain forever. Man was I pissed after that one.
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Post by Nikos on Jul 29, 2022 7:28:01 GMT -6
Thanks for posting those goals. I think I remember the game that he had vs the Canucks ( the one Hawks lost on Campoli's turnover). I think that Toews had 3 goals as he brought them back and got them into OT, only to lose.
That botched clearing dump is etched in my brain forever. Man was I pissed after that one.
The Campoli turnover was absolutely brutal. It would have been great to beat them again after sending them home in 09 & 10. Johnny with the great individual effort and shortie late to tie, then you get a power play and Sharpie could not pick a corner on Bobby Lu. All this coming back from being down 3-0 in series. |
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Toews
Jul 29, 2022 7:41:59 GMT -6
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Post by vadarx on Jul 29, 2022 7:41:59 GMT -6
Thanks for posting those goals. I think I remember the game that he had vs the Canucks ( the one Hawks lost on Campoli's turnover). I think that Toews had 3 goals as he brought them back and got them into OT, only to lose.
That botched clearing dump is etched in my brain forever. Man was I pissed after that one.
I was a lot more angry after the Gus turnover to Brouwer in '16... |
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Toews
Jul 29, 2022 7:53:00 GMT -6
Post by steamer on Jul 29, 2022 7:53:00 GMT -6
Very difficult decision for JT. Does he try to chase another cup? Giroux did and it didn't work out and now he's on to another team allegedly because he likes the area but the team while getting better will not likely be hoisting the cup near term. So does JT try that sort of thing? Does a team like the Avs who have just had success with their own leaders need or want another leader on the team? There are some clubhouse dynamics involved on certain teams that maybe make it less attractive for a JT at this point in his career. He's been a lifetime Blackhawk, captain for most of his career, hoisted 3 cups, - what does he really want to do for the remainder of his time in the NHL? The path of least resistance is to collect/earn his $10.5mm and stay in Chicago and make a decision later on. I think that may be exactly what he will do.
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 29, 2022 8:58:38 GMT -6
That botched clearing dump is etched in my brain forever. Man was I pissed after that one.
I was a lot more angry after the Gus turnover to Brouwer in '16... The deflection off Leddy in game 7 OT against the Kings in 14 was way worse. |
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Toews
Jul 29, 2022 11:08:03 GMT -6
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Post by Nikos on Jul 29, 2022 11:08:03 GMT -6
I was a lot more angry after the Gus turnover to Brouwer in '16... The deflection off Leddy in game 7 OT against the Kings in 14 was way worse. Ouch and double ouch. The Leddy one had sick feeling in my stomach for about a week. |
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Toews
Jul 29, 2022 11:18:13 GMT -6
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Post by BigT on Jul 29, 2022 11:18:13 GMT -6
The deflection off Leddy in game 7 OT against the Kings in 14 was way worse. Ouch and double ouch. The Leddy one had sick feeling in my stomach for about a week. I actually thought the Hawks got much better defensively after Leddy was gone. I thought the tandems of Keith/Seabs, Hammer/Oduya were the best in the league for the 2-3 years they were together. A very strong top 4. I’m still not sold on giving a guy like Leddy a big contract. Detroit couldn’t wait to get rid of him. They just loaded up, but traded Leddy a few months ago. You’d think that if a team was gonna try and take the next step, they’d keep a Cup winner like him around. But I agree with them getting rid of him!!! |
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Toews
Jul 29, 2022 11:31:50 GMT -6
Post by T-man2010 on Jul 29, 2022 11:31:50 GMT -6
Ouch and double ouch. The Leddy one had sick feeling in my stomach for about a week. I actually thought the Hawks got much better defensively after Leddy was gone. I thought the tandems of Keith/Seabs, Hammer/Oduya were the best in the league for the 2-3 years they were together. A very strong top 4. I’m still not sold on giving a guy like Leddy a big contract. Detroit couldn’t wait to get rid of him. They just loaded up, but traded Leddy a few months ago. You’d think that if a team was gonna try and take the next step, they’d keep a Cup winner like him around. But I agree with them getting rid of him!!! The Detroit team wasn't that special last year and they traded him at the TDL to the Blues. He did have 7 decent years in the Isle under the Trotz suffocating defense. Except one bad +/- season. |
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Post by mikeveisor on Jul 29, 2022 11:44:11 GMT -6
I was a lot more angry after the Gus turnover to Brouwer in '16... The deflection off Leddy in game 7 OT against the Kings in 14 was way worse. His difficulty getting off the ice in this year's playoffs IMMEDIATELY brought back 2014 to me: youtu.be/mrYVn-CuavE?t=63. |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Jul 29, 2022 13:20:00 GMT -6
Thanks for posting those goals. I think I remember the game that he had vs the Canucks (the one Hawks lost on Campoli's turnover). I think that Toews had 3 goals as he brought them back and got them into OT, only to lose. jonny got us back into it with a late shorty to send it to o/t but that was his only goal of the series. i think burrow's o/t goal that game was the second most deflating in my fandom career with chicago, losing out to lemaire's 55+ footer in 1971. when sharp missed that chance on the pp early in o/t, the tiniest voice in the back of my mind was whispering it might be over. Probably my favorite JT goal of all time he just would not be denied. Takes on 2 knuckleheads and scores from his belly. I have never seen a player with more determination in a period of hockey then JT in the 3 rd. Classic Johnny |
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Post by hawks27 on Jul 31, 2022 16:20:23 GMT -6
That botched clearing dump is etched in my brain forever. Man was I pissed after that one.
The Campoli turnover was absolutely brutal. It would have been great to beat them again after sending them home in 09 & 10. Johnny with the great individual effort and shortie late to tie, then you get a power play and Sharpie could not pick a corner on Bobby Lu. All this coming back from being down 3-0 in series. I guess that's where the number "3" in my foggy memory must have come from. It wasn't three goals by JT, but the "almost come-back" from being 3 games down to the Nucks. That goal by Toews was a clutch one, to say the least. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 31, 2022 19:18:19 GMT -6
words of praise from kyle okposo.
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Toews
Aug 1, 2022 8:30:35 GMT -6
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Post by LordKOTL on Aug 1, 2022 8:30:35 GMT -6
I would like to see both traded if possible before the season starts. I recognize their trade values likely peak closer to trade deadline. But in this situation, it would be more generous to the players to get them out of here. Why put them through the carnage unnecessarily? The trade return will not get that much better. Toews seems to have made his decision. Oblige him ASAP. He deserves it. Trading them helps the 'hawks, but the destination is also important. Why would Toews want to go to, say, Arizona? Or, name another club years away from a cup run. Why would Toews want to go there in lieu of riding out his deal with the 'hawks? Sure, he could be disenfranchised, but if he doesn't want to stick around for a ling rebuild, why just change scenery? The fact of the matter is that he's getting paid 10.5M and he's a 3rd line center at this point in his career. Irrespective of his history with us, there might not be a lot of teams that are close to winning willing to take on that cost. Maybe if they move an albatross back (which would be a good move for us as long as the cap hit doesn't go far into the future), but it could also be a situation where other teams might look to pick him up cheap as a UFA next season... ... ... ...Like a smart GM would have done with Seth Jones. I think there are a lot of moving parts to the Toews situation and Toews might not be amenable to doing Davidson any favors. He may want out but he may want out with an upgrade, not a lateral move. |
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Toews
Aug 1, 2022 8:41:23 GMT -6
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Aug 1, 2022 8:41:23 GMT -6
I would like to see both traded if possible before the season starts. I recognize their trade values likely peak closer to trade deadline. But in this situation, it would be more generous to the players to get them out of here. Why put them through the carnage unnecessarily? The trade return will not get that much better. Toews seems to have made his decision. Oblige him ASAP. He deserves it. Trading them helps the 'hawks, but the destination is also important. Why would Toews want to go to, say, Arizona? Or, name another club years away from a cup run. Why would Toews want to go there in lieu of riding out his deal with the 'hawks? Sure, he could be disenfranchised, but if he doesn't want to stick around for a ling rebuild, why just change scenery? The fact of the matter is that he's getting paid 10.5M and he's a 3rd line center at this point in his career. Irrespective of his history with us, there might not be a lot of teams that are close to winning willing to take on that cost. Maybe if they move an albatross back (which would be a good move for us as long as the cap hit doesn't go far into the future), but it could also be a situation where other teams might look to pick him up cheap as a UFA next season... ... ... ...Like a smart GM would have done with Seth Jones. I think there are a lot of moving parts to the Toews situation and Toews might not be amenable to doing Davidson any favors. He may want out but he may want out with an upgrade, not a lateral move. If Toews decides to leave he makes a short list of teams and there's no way he'll list a team that's years away, especially Arizona And KD will retain 50% of his salary, teams won't take him at 10.5. So they shouldn't have to take back a bad contract but if they did it better be a good sweetener. |
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Toews
Aug 1, 2022 9:12:38 GMT -6
Post by hsbob on Aug 1, 2022 9:12:38 GMT -6
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Toews
Aug 1, 2022 9:24:19 GMT -6
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Post by LordKOTL on Aug 1, 2022 9:24:19 GMT -6
Trading them helps the 'hawks, but the destination is also important. Why would Toews want to go to, say, Arizona? Or, name another club years away from a cup run. Why would Toews want to go there in lieu of riding out his deal with the 'hawks? Sure, he could be disenfranchised, but if he doesn't want to stick around for a ling rebuild, why just change scenery? The fact of the matter is that he's getting paid 10.5M and he's a 3rd line center at this point in his career. Irrespective of his history with us, there might not be a lot of teams that are close to winning willing to take on that cost. Maybe if they move an albatross back (which would be a good move for us as long as the cap hit doesn't go far into the future), but it could also be a situation where other teams might look to pick him up cheap as a UFA next season... ... ... ...Like a smart GM would have done with Seth Jones. I think there are a lot of moving parts to the Toews situation and Toews might not be amenable to doing Davidson any favors. He may want out but he may want out with an upgrade, not a lateral move. If Toews decides to leave he makes a short list of teams and there's no way he'll list a team that's years away, especially Arizona And KD will retain 50% of his salary, teams won't take him at 10.5. So they shouldn't have to take back a bad contract but if they did it better be a good sweetener. 5.75M for a 3rd line center is steep...even with Toews' pedigree. I still think we'd have to take salary on to get that move done, and I am also not 100% sure that teams which are close make that move in the offseason unless they want to unload an albatross. Granted, the 'hawks are in a position to take one on as long as the term is shorter. But like you I am quite sure that Toews would have a shortlist, and AZ and the like ain't on it. My point was that Toews might not do any favors; I doubt he would accept a move to a team which is not close before the season starts simply because it helps the 'hawks, whether or not there are any other possible moves. It takes 2 to tango, so if you were the GM of <insert other team here>, why would you take on an aged 3C at 5.75M, especially over a full season? The only way I would is if I needed to offload a bad deal. |
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Toews
Aug 1, 2022 9:40:01 GMT -6
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Post by BigT on Aug 1, 2022 9:40:01 GMT -6
Not saying it matters the most. But Toews at 1/2 is 5.25. So an extra 1/2 million is saved and to a cap team that means a lot.
I’m sure that Sakic has been through things like what Toews is going through now. If Sakic was to trade for him. I’d have to think he’d have a long talk with Toews to see how he feels physically, mentally etc. I’m sure if Toews told him he’s ready to win and looks forward to the challenge. Sakic will believe the 3 time Cup champ and would be happy to give up a 1st and a prospect for him. Maybe Toews re-signs there on a cap friendly deal?
Next years draft more than likely redefines the Hawks. I’d love to see 4 first rounders. I’m still very happy keeping the duo around. So either way it’ll be for the better!!!
Edit: I know in that article he said JT Compher for Toews. But that was just a scenario that worked for the Avs. I don’t see that happening. I still see Toews as a big part of a team and KD doesn’t have to accept a shitty trade just to move Toews. Or Kane. I’d tell them play out the year and see where it goes from there. I doubt either of them would publicly say they only want to go to a certain team and they won’t play for the Hawks anymore. That’s just not gonna happen. If the Hawks don’t get fair value, they’ll stay put!!!
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