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Post by hsbob on Aug 1, 2022 10:27:18 GMT -6
If Toews decides to leave he makes a short list of teams and there's no way he'll list a team that's years away, especially Arizona And KD will retain 50% of his salary, teams won't take him at 10.5. So they shouldn't have to take back a bad contract but if they did it better be a good sweetener. 5.75M for a 3rd line center is steep...even with Toews' pedigree. I still think we'd have to take salary on to get that move done, and I am also not 100% sure that teams which are close make that move in the offseason unless they want to unload an albatross. Granted, the 'hawks are in a position to take one on as long as the term is shorter. But like you I am quite sure that Toews would have a shortlist, and AZ and the like ain't on it. My point was that Toews might not do any favors; I doubt he would accept a move to a team which is not close before the season starts simply because it helps the 'hawks, whether or not there are any other possible moves. It takes 2 to tango, so if you were the GM of <insert other team here>, why would you take on an aged 3C at 5.75M, especially over a full season?
The only way I would is if I needed to offload a bad deal. I would say in hopes of him regaining some prior form after a year to recover and get his legs back under him,he says he feels great and can't wait to get going again. A 'full season' is one way to look at it and ONLY one season is another,it sounds like he has little value at all as far as you're concerned. His two seasons before gettin' sick were 60 and 81pts,maybe 12/37 last year does say 3rd line but he didn't center Kane and Cat all year either........FAR from it. Do you really see Toews as an albatross @half price? I personally see a healthy Toews helping a team that's close. |
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Toews
Aug 1, 2022 10:38:03 GMT -6
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Post by steamer on Aug 1, 2022 10:38:03 GMT -6
Not sure why a team that just won the cup would trade for Toews but what do I know. Still not sure what motivates a player who has been with one team and won 3 cups for his career. I guess playing winning hockey and that won’t happen for at least a couple years here.
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Toews
Aug 1, 2022 11:06:11 GMT -6
Post by T-man2010 on Aug 1, 2022 11:06:11 GMT -6
Toews actually cash salary this year is 6.9. It's AAV of 10.5.
So if the Hawks can trade him to whoever he wants to go to, and they eat half, worse will be 5.25 on the AAV and 3.45 in actual cash.
And then prorate it as the season goes on.
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Post by Nikos on Aug 1, 2022 11:45:13 GMT -6
Not sure why a team that just won the cup would trade for Toews but what do I know. Still not sure what motivates a player who has been with one team and won 3 cups for his career. I guess playing winning hockey and that won’t happen for at least a couple years here. Winning the Stanley cup is hard doing it once, if Avs can go back-to-back and adding Toews who does not have to be the number #1 guy would certainly go a long way. Leadership, experience, taking important faceoffs, penalty kill and just the excitement to be playing in meaning games I am sure will be a great motivation for him. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Aug 1, 2022 11:49:41 GMT -6
If Toews decides to leave he makes a short list of teams and there's no way he'll list a team that's years away, especially Arizona And KD will retain 50% of his salary, teams won't take him at 10.5. So they shouldn't have to take back a bad contract but if they did it better be a good sweetener. 5.75M for a 3rd line center is steep...even with Toews' pedigree. I still think we'd have to take salary on to get that move done, and I am also not 100% sure that teams which are close make that move in the offseason unless they want to unload an albatross. Granted, the 'hawks are in a position to take one on as long as the term is shorter. But like you I am quite sure that Toews would have a shortlist, and AZ and the like ain't on it. My point was that Toews might not do any favors; I doubt he would accept a move to a team which is not close before the season starts simply because it helps the 'hawks, whether or not there are any other possible moves. It takes 2 to tango, so if you were the GM of <insert other team here>, why would you take on an aged 3C at 5.75M, especially over a full season? The only way I would is if I needed to offload a bad deal. 5.25, not .75. Kadri was making 4.5 as a 3C and JT brings a lot more than him for an extra million. Toews is a few years older but he's well rested and still one of the best at faceoffs. If I was a GM I'd gladly take on Toews for 5.25 for 1 season, especially if I was a team that's very close and needs a guy like him to get my team over the top. Hawks can easily take on a bad contract and get back picks and prospects. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Aug 1, 2022 11:51:46 GMT -6
Not sure why a team that just won the cup would trade for Toews but what do I know. Still not sure what motivates a player who has been with one team and won 3 cups for his career. I guess playing winning hockey and that won’t happen for at least a couple years here. They lost Kadri and his 4.5, added a 3 Cup winner to replace him at 3C is a smart move. |
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Toews
Aug 1, 2022 12:35:40 GMT -6
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Post by steamer on Aug 1, 2022 12:35:40 GMT -6
Hopefully JT is mentally ready to relinquish the C and become a role player rather than one of the top 2 guys and maybe he’s there already. Colorado’s picks will be low and maybe Sakic is all in for right now and willing to give prospect(s) too.
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Aug 1, 2022 15:22:20 GMT -6
Post by Nikos on Aug 1, 2022 15:22:20 GMT -6
Hopefully JT is mentally ready to relinquish the C and become a role player rather than one of the top 2 guys and maybe he’s there already. Colorado’s picks will be low and maybe Sakic is all in for right now and willing to give prospect(s) too. You can also engage with a third team who might have better picks and Avs send the player there instead of Hawks. Just need to be creative and reasonable. |
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Toews
Aug 1, 2022 15:27:43 GMT -6
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Post by steamer on Aug 1, 2022 15:27:43 GMT -6
Hopefully JT is mentally ready to relinquish the C and become a role player rather than one of the top 2 guys and maybe he’s there already. Colorado’s picks will be low and maybe Sakic is all in for right now and willing to give prospect(s) too. You can also engage with a third team who might have better picks and Avs send the player there instead of Hawks. Just need to be creative and reasonable. I like this thinking! The 3rd party’s picks would be better than the Avs by definition - at least in ‘23. |
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Aug 1, 2022 18:40:57 GMT -6
Post by LordKOTL on Aug 1, 2022 18:40:57 GMT -6
5.75M for a 3rd line center is steep...even with Toews' pedigree. I still think we'd have to take salary on to get that move done, and I am also not 100% sure that teams which are close make that move in the offseason unless they want to unload an albatross. Granted, the 'hawks are in a position to take one on as long as the term is shorter. But like you I am quite sure that Toews would have a shortlist, and AZ and the like ain't on it. My point was that Toews might not do any favors; I doubt he would accept a move to a team which is not close before the season starts simply because it helps the 'hawks, whether or not there are any other possible moves. It takes 2 to tango, so if you were the GM of <insert other team here>, why would you take on an aged 3C at 5.75M, especially over a full season?
The only way I would is if I needed to offload a bad deal. I would say in hopes of him regaining some prior form after a year to recover and get his legs back under him,he says he feels great and can't wait to get going again. A 'full season' is one way to look at it and ONLY one season is another,it sounds like he has little value at all as far as you're concerned. His two seasons before gettin' sick were 60 and 81pts,maybe 12/37 last year does say 3rd line but he didn't center Kane and Cat all year either........FAR from it. Do you really see Toews as an albatross @half price? I personally see a healthy Toews helping a team that's close. Trying to be objective here: Toews went from 70GP, 18G in 2020 to 71GP, 12G in 2022. Assists are going to depend on whomever he can set up, but the number went down from 46 in 2020 to 25. As a 3rd line center, would he be in a 1C role (like Ladd/Bolland/Havlat), or would he be more like an actual 3c where he's relied more upon defense? No matter how you slice it, splitting the difference in his last 2 playing years, you're looking at a 15G center, which is statistically about what he is; it's highly unlikely he'll return to 2019 form. $5.25M for a 15G center? I don't see many GM's who are ready to take the next step biting on that cap hit without another asset coming back or sending dead cap out. His defensive game really isn't in question. He's still one of the best at FO's and he's still good at shutting guys down, but his offensive production had been going down. Even with his pedigree 5. 25M is a bit of a steep price to pay for a #3C. Think of it in reverse back in 2018-last season: If Stan was going to pay for an aging center who, while defensively responsible and great at FO's, is on a downward trend for offense...and paying over $5M for it? We'd be grabbing the pitchforks and the torches. From the other team's perspective, there would have to be something else that would make the move worthwhile: - It's either at the TDL as the "missing piece." Early on he could completely disappear, be out with injuries for the whole year, etc.
- We're sending an albatross contract out--not someone like Toews who has a strong aspect of his game but is paid for past awesomeness, but someone who's worthless and overpaid. Someone who's DeHaan Worthless. Gus Worthless. Connelly Worthless.
It's that last one that I think is what will happen for any team looking for the "next step". They might have someone who just isn't cutting it anymore that they're looking for offload--and I think that would be the salient piece for a Toews trade with 50% retained.
But just Toews himself at 5.25? IMHO that's a deadline move.
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Toews
Aug 1, 2022 20:53:26 GMT -6
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Post by vadarx on Aug 1, 2022 20:53:26 GMT -6
Not sure why a team that just won the cup would trade for Toews but what do I know. Still not sure what motivates a player who has been with one team and won 3 cups for his career. I guess playing winning hockey and that won’t happen for at least a couple years here. They lost Kadri and his 4.5, added a 3 Cup winner to replace him at 3C is a smart move. Kadri was 2C and 1C on the pp for the Avs last season... |
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Post by 2old4this on Aug 1, 2022 21:32:18 GMT -6
They lost Kadri and his 4.5, added a 3 Cup winner to replace him at 3C is a smart move. Kadri was 2C and 1C on the pp for the Avs last season... And what position on the power play did Toews play before illness and the pandemic grounded him? |
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Post by T-man2010 on Aug 1, 2022 21:51:38 GMT -6
They lost Kadri and his 4.5, added a 3 Cup winner to replace him at 3C is a smart move. Kadri was 2C and 1C on the pp for the Avs last season... I could see a AV's PP of Mackinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, JT and Makar. |
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Toews
Aug 2, 2022 4:41:41 GMT -6
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Post by BigT on Aug 2, 2022 4:41:41 GMT -6
Kadri was 2C and 1C on the pp for the Avs last season... I could see a AV's PP of Mackinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, JT and Makar. That’s not even fair. Probably operate at a 40% clip!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Aug 2, 2022 8:49:31 GMT -6
I would say in hopes of him regaining some prior form after a year to recover and get his legs back under him,he says he feels great and can't wait to get going again. A 'full season' is one way to look at it and ONLY one season is another,it sounds like he has little value at all as far as you're concerned. His two seasons before gettin' sick were 60 and 81pts,maybe 12/37 last year does say 3rd line but he didn't center Kane and Cat all year either........FAR from it. Do you really see Toews as an albatross @half price? I personally see a healthy Toews helping a team that's close. Trying to be objective here: Toews went from 70GP, 18G in 2020 to 71GP, 12G in 2022. Assists are going to depend on whomever he can set up, but the number went down from 46 in 2020 to 25. As a 3rd line center, would he be in a 1C role (like Ladd/Bolland/Havlat), or would he be more like an actual 3c where he's relied more upon defense? No matter how you slice it, splitting the difference in his last 2 playing years, you're looking at a 15G center, which is statistically about what he is; it's highly unlikely he'll return to 2019 form. $5.25M for a 15G center? I don't see many GM's who are ready to take the next step biting on that cap hit without another asset coming back or sending dead cap out. His defensive game really isn't in question. He's still one of the best at FO's and he's still good at shutting guys down, but his offensive production had been going down. Even with his pedigree 5. 25M is a bit of a steep price to pay for a #3C. Think of it in reverse back in 2018-last season: If Stan was going to pay for an aging center who, while defensively responsible and great at FO's, is on a downward trend for offense...and paying over $5M for it? We'd be grabbing the pitchforks and the torches. From the other team's perspective, there would have to be something else that would make the move worthwhile: - It's either at the TDL as the "missing piece." Early on he could completely disappear, be out with injuries for the whole year, etc.
- We're sending an albatross contract out--not someone like Toews who has a strong aspect of his game but is paid for past awesomeness, but someone who's worthless and overpaid. Someone who's DeHaan Worthless. Gus Worthless. Connelly Worthless.
It's that last one that I think is what will happen for any team looking for the "next step". They might have someone who just isn't cutting it anymore that they're looking for offload--and I think that would be the salient piece for a Toews trade with 50% retained.
But just Toews himself at 5.25? IMHO that's a deadline move.
I know you are and I also know you didn't refer to Toews himself as an 'Albatross'......I just doubt an 'Albatross' deal coming back after retaining half his $$$ would be required. Yeah,it sems like the summer of '19' was lightyears ago but that 35/81 56FO% season was the last time the guy had a high quality linemate,skating much of the year with Kane. He had Kubalik the following year and took full advantage, setting him up to the tune of a 30 goal season in only 68 games. He's had no one to set him up on his line since and no one to set up himself last year either........Hagel looked like he'd be a good fit for a while before he was traded. Ya gotta admit he's had 3rd line quality linemates,what do you think his offensive numbers look like if he skated with Kane and Cat all year? Other than a quick mention of his 'pedigree',you leave out his enormous level of championship experience which many believe adds value. One hundred and thirty seven PO games with 45gls and 119pts to show for it,5gls 9pts in his last 9 PO games 2 years ago......11 PO game winners! We're in agreement on his defensive game and his FO's speak for themselves.......always have. We'd get pitchforks out if our last Gm acquired a guy like Toews? Only if you're convinced a year back with inferior linemates after missing a full one is a true representation of his abilities. Richards was 3M I believe coming off a buyout and Vermette was a TDL add but both aging centers played big parts in '15'......JT could do the same for a team next year. I believe he'll be in better shape to start next year and could have a good bounce back season with decent offensive numbers while still shutting guys down and winning FO's. I see a chance at a great player regaining some of his past form after a season to get back in shape but you seem to see more of a chance of him 'completely disappearing' or missing the entire year to injury? The 'completely disappearing' part must be referring to his struggles scoring to start the year and 'being out with injuries for the whole year' must be referring to his season missed with illness..........these are outliers.......why define the great player by them? Towes won't be the player he was 5 or even 3 years ago but his offensive numbers would without a doubt improve playing with better players..........without a doubt! |
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Post by 2old4this on Aug 2, 2022 11:24:01 GMT -6
Once more, with feeling.....FUCK YOU, STAN!!!!!
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Aug 2, 2022 18:46:07 GMT -6
Post by LordKOTL on Aug 2, 2022 18:46:07 GMT -6
Trying to be objective here: Toews went from 70GP, 18G in 2020 to 71GP, 12G in 2022. Assists are going to depend on whomever he can set up, but the number went down from 46 in 2020 to 25. As a 3rd line center, would he be in a 1C role (like Ladd/Bolland/Havlat), or would he be more like an actual 3c where he's relied more upon defense? No matter how you slice it, splitting the difference in his last 2 playing years, you're looking at a 15G center, which is statistically about what he is; it's highly unlikely he'll return to 2019 form. $5.25M for a 15G center? I don't see many GM's who are ready to take the next step biting on that cap hit without another asset coming back or sending dead cap out. His defensive game really isn't in question. He's still one of the best at FO's and he's still good at shutting guys down, but his offensive production had been going down. Even with his pedigree 5. 25M is a bit of a steep price to pay for a #3C. Think of it in reverse back in 2018-last season: If Stan was going to pay for an aging center who, while defensively responsible and great at FO's, is on a downward trend for offense...and paying over $5M for it? We'd be grabbing the pitchforks and the torches. From the other team's perspective, there would have to be something else that would make the move worthwhile: - It's either at the TDL as the "missing piece." Early on he could completely disappear, be out with injuries for the whole year, etc.
- We're sending an albatross contract out--not someone like Toews who has a strong aspect of his game but is paid for past awesomeness, but someone who's worthless and overpaid. Someone who's DeHaan Worthless. Gus Worthless. Connelly Worthless.
It's that last one that I think is what will happen for any team looking for the "next step". They might have someone who just isn't cutting it anymore that they're looking for offload--and I think that would be the salient piece for a Toews trade with 50% retained.
But just Toews himself at 5.25? IMHO that's a deadline move.
I know you are and I also know you didn't refer to Toews himself as an 'Albatross'......I just doubt an 'Albatross' deal coming back after retaining half his $$$ would be required. Yeah,it sems like the summer of '19' was lightyears ago but that 35/81 56FO% season was the last time the guy had a high quality linemate,skating much of the year with Kane. He had Kubalik the following year and took full advantage, setting him up to the tune of a 30 goal season in only 68 games. He's had no one to set him up on his line since and no one to set up himself last year either........Hagel looked like he'd be a good fit for a while before he was traded. Ya gotta admit he's had 3rd line quality linemates,what do you think his offensive numbers look like if he skated with Kane and Cat all year? Other than a quick mention of his 'pedigree',you leave out his enormous level of championship experience which many believe adds value. One hundred and thirty seven PO games with 45gls and 119pts to show for it,5gls 9pts in his last 9 PO games 2 years ago...... PO game winners! We're in agreement on his defensive game and his FO's speak for themselves.......always have. We'd get pitchforks out if our last Gm acquired a guy like Toews? Only if you're convinced a year back with inferior linemates after missing a full one is a true representation of his abilities. Richards was 3M I believe coming off a buyout and Vermette was a TDL add but both aging centers played big parts in '15'......JT could do the same for a team next year. I believe he'll be in better shape to start next year and could have a good bounce back season with decent offensive season while still shutting guys down and winning FO's. I see a chance at a great player regaining some of his past form after a season to get back in shape but you seem to see more of a chance of him 'completely disappearing' or missing the entire year to injury? The 'completely disappearing' part must be referring to his struggles scoring to start the year and 'being out with injuries for the whole year' must be referring to his season missed with illness..........these are outliers.......why define the great player by them? Towes won't be the player he was 5 or even 3 years ago but his offensive numbers would without a doubt improve playing with better players..........without a doubt! If Toews was on a 3M deal anyone would take that. He's not; it's a 5.25M deal. Even with cap inflation in the question that only ups it to ~3.5M. Vermette was a TDL deal like you said. Even taking his playoff skill and pedigree into consideration, teams tend to not pay that much for playoff experience early; they will at the TDL. Hockey is a "what have you done for me, lately" game, and thats goes especially for the older segment, which Toews occupies. I think Toews missing 2021, and going 12/35 in 71G in 2022 is going to be a sticking point for GM's prior to the season starting. I think they would see $5M in cap as a risk that would be mitigated either by (a) taking dead weight off their hands or (b) seeing what Toews does on the ice this season a year older. I will add a point of clarity here: I think Toews can be moved on his own at the TDL without taking negative back. I don't think the same could be said before the season. I think we'll have to take something back if he's moved prior to the the beginning of the season. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. This doesn't negate his wonderful career but I don't think any team almost there will take on $5M in cap based on Toews' recent history before the season starts. I will also add that I have no problem with out taking anything negative back if Toews wants out--unless it lasts as long as Jones' deal. We are in a position to weaponize capspace. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Aug 2, 2022 19:42:56 GMT -6
They lost Kadri and his 4.5, added a 3 Cup winner to replace him at 3C is a smart move. Kadri was 2C and 1C on the pp for the Avs last season... Maybe last season but he was a 3C before that. He had one 60pt year before last season and his career faceoff percentage is 49%. I'd prefer Toews and what he brings over Kadri and I'm sure Sakic would as well. |
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Post by hsbob on Aug 3, 2022 8:14:46 GMT -6
I know you are and I also know you didn't refer to Toews himself as an 'Albatross'......I just doubt an 'Albatross' deal coming back after retaining half his $$$ would be required. Yeah,it sems like the summer of '19' was lightyears ago but that 35/81 56FO% season was the last time the guy had a high quality linemate,skating much of the year with Kane. He had Kubalik the following year and took full advantage, setting him up to the tune of a 30 goal season in only 68 games. He's had no one to set him up on his line since and no one to set up himself last year either........Hagel looked like he'd be a good fit for a while before he was traded. Ya gotta admit he's had 3rd line quality linemates,what do you think his offensive numbers look like if he skated with Kane and Cat all year? Other than a quick mention of his 'pedigree',you leave out his enormous level of championship experience which many believe adds value. One hundred and thirty seven PO games with 45gls and 119pts to show for it,5gls 9pts in his last 9 PO games 2 years ago...... PO game winners! We're in agreement on his defensive game and his FO's speak for themselves.......always have. We'd get pitchforks out if our last Gm acquired a guy like Toews? Only if you're convinced a year back with inferior linemates after missing a full one is a true representation of his abilities. Richards was 3M I believe coming off a buyout and Vermette was a TDL add but both aging centers played big parts in '15'......JT could do the same for a team next year. I believe he'll be in better shape to start next year and could have a good bounce back season with decent offensive season while still shutting guys down and winning FO's. I see a chance at a great player regaining some of his past form after a season to get back in shape but you seem to see more of a chance of him 'completely disappearing' or missing the entire year to injury? The 'completely disappearing' part must be referring to his struggles scoring to start the year and 'being out with injuries for the whole year' must be referring to his season missed with illness..........these are outliers.......why define the great player by them? Towes won't be the player he was 5 or even 3 years ago but his offensive numbers would without a doubt improve playing with better players..........without a doubt! If Toews was on a 3M deal anyone would take that. He's not; it's a 5.25M deal. Even with cap inflation in the question that only ups it to ~3.5M. Vermette was a TDL deal like you said. Even taking his playoff skill and pedigree into consideration, teams tend to not pay that much for playoff experience early; they will at the TDL. Hockey is a "what have you done for me, lately" game, and thats goes especially for the older segment, which Toews occupies. I think Toews missing 2021, and going 12/35 in 71G in 2022 is going to be a sticking point for GM's prior to the season starting. I think they would see $5M in cap as a risk that would be mitigated either by (a) taking dead weight off their hands or (b) seeing what Toews does on the ice this season a year older. I will add a point of clarity here: I think Toews can be moved on his own at the TDL without taking negative back. I don't think the same could be said before the season. I think we'll have to take something back if he's moved prior to the the beginning of the season. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. This doesn't negate his wonderful career but I don't think any team almost there will take on $5M in cap based on Toews' recent history before the season starts. I will also add that I have no problem with out taking anything negative back if Toews wants out--unless it lasts as long as Jones' deal. We are in a position to weaponize capspace. I don't see GM's defining Toews by his last two years only as you continue to do,his 5gls 9pts in 9 PO games was less than two years ago too. I do see GM's hearing him say he feels better than ever health and conditioning-wise and those GM's also saw he didn't skate with the team's best wings all year......if at all. Don't you think he needed that year to get back in game shape? Did you expect much more considering this,his decreased minutes early on and inferior linemates? I don't want to put words in your mouth but since you don't mention the possibility of a good,bounce-back season,does that mean you don't expect one as I do? Of course more teams can fit a sizable cap hit in at the TDL but the Avs will need a #2-3 center all year and the Hawks can retain whatever's necessary with their space next year. If 6-6.5M is retained........you don't think GM's will take a shot @4-4.5M? Throw in one of our 3rds's next year and a Beaudin....ect.....ect.(gotta make room soon)and maybe you pry their next year's late 1st round pick away......a 1st is a 1st. |
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Toews
Aug 3, 2022 10:01:24 GMT -6
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Post by LordKOTL on Aug 3, 2022 10:01:24 GMT -6
If Toews was on a 3M deal anyone would take that. He's not; it's a 5.25M deal. Even with cap inflation in the question that only ups it to ~3.5M. Vermette was a TDL deal like you said. Even taking his playoff skill and pedigree into consideration, teams tend to not pay that much for playoff experience early; they will at the TDL. Hockey is a "what have you done for me, lately" game, and thats goes especially for the older segment, which Toews occupies. I think Toews missing 2021, and going 12/35 in 71G in 2022 is going to be a sticking point for GM's prior to the season starting. I think they would see $5M in cap as a risk that would be mitigated either by (a) taking dead weight off their hands or (b) seeing what Toews does on the ice this season a year older. I will add a point of clarity here: I think Toews can be moved on his own at the TDL without taking negative back. I don't think the same could be said before the season. I think we'll have to take something back if he's moved prior to the the beginning of the season. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. This doesn't negate his wonderful career but I don't think any team almost there will take on $5M in cap based on Toews' recent history before the season starts. I will also add that I have no problem with out taking anything negative back if Toews wants out--unless it lasts as long as Jones' deal. We are in a position to weaponize capspace. I don't see GM's defining Toews by his last two years only as you continue to do,his 5gls 9pts in 9 PO games was less than two years ago too. I do see GM's hearing him say he feels better than ever health and conditioning-wise and those GM's also saw he didn't skate with the team's best wings all year......if at all. Don't you think he needed that year to get back in game shape? Did you expect much more considering this,his decreased minutes early on and inferior linemates? I don't want to put words in your mouth but since you don't mention the possibility of a good,bounce-back season,does that mean you don't expect one as I do? Of course more teams can fit a sizable cap hit in at the TDL but the Avs will need a #2-3 center all year and the Hawks can retain whatever's necessary with their space next year. If 6-6.5M is retained........you don't think GM's will take a shot @4-4.5M? Throw in one of our 3rds's next year and a Beaudin....ect.....ect.(gotta make room soon)and maybe you pry their next year's late 1st round pick away......a 1st is a 1st. I believe retention is capped at 50% per Capfriendly; so the cap for Toews cannot be any less than $5.25M by the receiving team. While I think a bounce back year is *possible*, it's not guaranteed. Could he? Of course, Will he? Ask me come next April  ). I think that'll be a sticking point; not that he can't, but that a GM would be gambling that his O-game would bounce back a significant amount if they were to take him in without sending anything back. However...Looking at Colorado's situation, they're sitting on a projected 3.91M of cap space--which is far more than Toews min 5.25M. But, they are also sitting on some aging contracts and seem to have a lot of D. Depending on how comfortable they are with their up-and-coming prospects, I could see them going for Toews in the offseason for Helm+another roster player. Toews is a de facto better player than Helm right now, but it'll take more than Helm's 1.25M to clear cap for Toews at 5.25M. I could see them ditching MacDermid as superfluous on D which would clear their cap, or if they had some faith in their prospects or wanted one of our sub-1M fwd's (not Reichel), possibly Cogliano would be another player to send out with Helm. |
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Toews
Aug 3, 2022 10:10:52 GMT -6
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Post by vadarx on Aug 3, 2022 10:10:52 GMT -6
Kadri was 2C and 1C on the pp for the Avs last season... Maybe last season but he was a 3C before that. He had one 60pt year before last season and his career faceoff percentage is 49%. I'd prefer Toews and what he brings over Kadri and I'm sure Sakic would as well. I know, I am just saying he was higher up in the lineup last year in Denver and probably is trying to parlay that into a nice big contract. I would absolutely take Toews over him now (or any other time) if only to not have to deal with the drama that comes with him. |
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Post by hsbob on Aug 4, 2022 8:48:00 GMT -6
I don't see GM's defining Toews by his last two years only as you continue to do,his 5gls 9pts in 9 PO games was less than two years ago too. I do see GM's hearing him say he feels better than ever health and conditioning-wise and those GM's also saw he didn't skate with the team's best wings all year......if at all. Don't you think he needed that year to get back in game shape? Did you expect much more considering this,his decreased minutes early on and inferior linemates? I don't want to put words in your mouth but since you don't mention the possibility of a good,bounce-back season,does that mean you don't expect one as I do? Of course more teams can fit a sizable cap hit in at the TDL but the Avs will need a #2-3 center all year and the Hawks can retain whatever's necessary with their space next year. If 6-6.5M is retained........you don't think GM's will take a shot @4-4.5M? Throw in one of our 3rds's next year and a Beaudin....ect.....ect.(gotta make room soon)and maybe you pry their next year's late 1st round pick away......a 1st is a 1st. I believe retention is capped at 50% per Capfriendly; so the cap for Toews cannot be any less than $5.25M by the receiving team. While I think a bounce back year is *possible*, it's not guaranteed. Could he? Of course, Will he? Ask me come next April ). I think that'll be a sticking point; not that he can't, but that a GM would be gambling that his O-game would bounce back a significant amount if they were to take him in without sending anything back. However...Looking at Colorado's situation, they're sitting on a projected 3.91M of cap space--which is far more than Toews min 5.25M. But, they are also sitting on some aging contracts and seem to have a lot of D. Depending on how comfortable they are with their up-and-coming prospects, I could see them going for Toews in the offseason for Helm+another roster player. Toews is a de facto better player than Helm right now, but it'll take more than Helm's 1.25M to clear cap for Toews at 5.25M. I could see them ditching MacDermid as superfluous on D which would clear their cap, or if they had some faith in their prospects or wanted one of our sub-1M fwd's (not Reichel), possibly Cogliano would be another player to send out with Helm. bleacherreport.com/articles/10044151-top-trades-landing-spots-for-chicago-blackhawks-captain-jonathan-toews I didn't realize it till I read this article and I doubt it matters to the richer teams but Toews and Kane both are due a salary of only 2.9M after the team paid their 4M signing bonuses. I also didn't realize till now how bonus laden(like Jones and Seabs)their deals are(not that either will be bought out)....did DUMBASS just hand these player's agents signed contracts and say 'just fill in the blanks'? To be fair,I supported the K&T deals and I thought Seabs' was just 2-3 years too long,the three were also rewarded for their accomplishments here.......BUT.... Let's be real about these four contracts,there was no gun to the team's head,no holdouts,no long drawn-out,messy negotiations and no threats to leave or test the UFA waters on the part of the three re-do's and the team also negotiated against itself once again with the Jones deal! Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews were willingly offered the exact same record breaking contracts by a FO that wanted the 'splash' of having the two highest paid players.....the only thing I can hear Pat Brisson telling his plyers is 'get to F'n town and sign as soon as you can!' when he heard the offers. Brent Seabrook had a full year left on his deal in Oct of '15' when he was re-done @30 so there were obviously no long drawn-out negotiations.....if there were any at all. The FO still hadn't come out of the Stanley Cup ether at that point apparently,if the player was offered 7M(what's the difference?) for FIVE years with a promise of favorable one year's to follow or a chance to coach(he'd be great)......how in the hell does he say no? I believe the fan-base understands if he turns down 7MX5 and is dealt at the next TDL. As I've said many times......I respected the Org offering him a 1m raise BUT......the term........the clauses.......the bonuses.......the horror! ALL SELF INDUCED! Fast forward to the summer of '2021' and you'd think even our dim-witted GM knows how incumbered by the deals given to the three cup winners the team has been....so what does he do with this experience? The same dim-witted GM who penned and published his own rebuild letter only nine months earlier acquires a player who'd only go to two teams,one(Dallas),having already pushed all their chips in on their own big defensive re-do just days ealier. Only this time,MASSIVE assets are given up too along with ANOTHER contract every bit as loaded with max $$$,max term,max clauses and a bonus structure that finds the player with only a 2.5M salary the last three years.......making a buyout worthless. Jones IS three years younger than Seabs was when his deal kicked in BUT,Jones makes 2.7M more,massive assets were given up for the preiledge of signing this deal and unlike Seabs,Jones has helped the team do nothing at that point. One has to wonder how much negotiatrion happened with this deal too since he got everything he wanted and there were no other suitors at that point.......I have to think Pat Brisson told Jones what he told Kane and Toews back in the summer of '14'. |
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Post by vadarx on Feb 19, 2023 15:11:32 GMT -6
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Post by higgyhawk on Feb 19, 2023 16:02:22 GMT -6
I hope Toews recovers completely and will play again only if his body allows him too.Get well soon our captain.
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Post by mikeveisor on Feb 20, 2023 10:22:53 GMT -6
I hope that I am wrong but I think we've watched Johnny's last game. His contract is up this summer, and given the last several years' medical probs, I can really foresee a retirement announcement shortly after the season ends with Blackhawks' brass at the same table for a supportive bon voyage. It just has that "feel" to it for me. |
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Post by Nikos on Feb 20, 2023 10:36:59 GMT -6
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Post by hawks27 on Feb 20, 2023 15:14:57 GMT -6
I hope that I am wrong but I think we've watched Johnny's last game. His contract is up this summer, and given the last several years' medical probs, I can really foresee a retirement announcement shortly after the season ends with Blackhawks' brass at the same table for a supportive bon voyage. It just has that "feel" to it for me. Unfortunately, I have the same feeling that Toews may be done playing hockey. I, too, hope I am wrong, but it just has that "feel," hearing what he's been dealing with. Whatever the future holds for him, I only hope the best for him and if it is retirement, I hope he can enjoy it fully. No matter what happens, "thank you" to Jonny for some great years. As a life-long Blackhawks fan, my appreciation for what he has done is immense. |
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Post by Nikos on Feb 20, 2023 15:48:12 GMT -6
I hope that I am wrong but I think we've watched Johnny's last game. His contract is up this summer, and given the last several years' medical probs, I can really foresee a retirement announcement shortly after the season ends with Blackhawks' brass at the same table for a supportive bon voyage. It just has that "feel" to it for me. Unfortunately, I have the same feeling that Toews may be done playing hockey. I, too, hope I am wrong, but it just has that "feel," hearing what he's been dealing with. Whatever the future holds for him, I only hope the best for him and if it is retirement, I hope he can enjoy it fully. No matter what happens, "thank you" to Jonny for some great years. As a life-long Blackhawks fan, my appreciation for what he has done is immense. Ditto and thanks for posting, a great player, leader, who played and respected the game and made Blackhawks fans proud. Always answered questions from the press in good and bad times, never pointed fingers. When you look up hockey player in dictionary, they should have a photo of our captain. |
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Post by phill9 on Mar 1, 2023 0:12:10 GMT -6
Hopefully he'll get back if only to skate 1 more game in a Hawks jersey
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Post by vadarx on Mar 1, 2023 0:20:00 GMT -6
Hopefully he'll get back if only to skate 1 more game in a Hawks jersey the last man standing..... I REALLY hope we get to see him again playing for the 'hawks. |
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). I think that'll be a sticking point; not that he can't, but that a GM would be gambling that his O-game would bounce back a significant amount if they were to take him in without sending anything back.
