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Post by OldTimeHawky on Apr 11, 2020 13:22:09 GMT -6
I've only watched highlights and compilation videos of Regula and it's basically all in the offensive zone, no he doesn't have speed but he's agile and smart with a heavy one timer. 15 of his 27 goals this year were on the PP and he played LW there, so move him up like they did to Buff. Hawks have some good speed on the back end and if Regula doesn't improve his, he'll never crack the lineup playing D. But Mitchell is the prospect I'm most curious about, he probably made Jokiharju expendable, even though it was a dumb trade, but Mitchell seems more mature and composed, that goes a long ways with teammates. I've only seen a few offensive highlights myself so I'll trust T's in-person assessment. I guess I just struggle to see how a D-man can pot 27 and still post a +39 at that level has such glaring skating issues,Boqvist potted 20 on the same team the year before and his +12 was unimpressive. Maybe they work with his skating a few years at Rockford but I do understand T's concerns because it's hard to teach speed. Are you saying Mitchell is more mature and composed than a 20yro who played em all for his NHL club this year? Jokiharu cracked a NHL roster and helped his country win a WC @19 and earned the trust of his new coach @20,that trade allowed Buffalo to move both Scandella and Bogosian. Joker also has 20lbs on Mitchell.....another small framed D-man to add to the others. I just looked at the UofDs website and it says Mitchell is 179lbs, not 168. He doesn't look skinny and the three main player sites I check said he was 174 twice and 173. Either way he'll get to the 180s and I think you'll like how he plays. I only listed Moberg because he's a big D prospect, he's a long term project with lots of upside. We both like Gilbert but his corsi isn't the best so that has him in the doghouse despite the team liking him around, especially the goalies. Attachments:
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Post by BigT on Apr 11, 2020 14:23:11 GMT -6
All of our young studs could be traded and for extremely ready players. Other than Regula every other Dman is moveable. Kubalik is the only forward I keep the rest of them that doesn't have NTC can go. Now I'm not saying move all of them. If the right deal was there and in many cases the deal would be there to be had. You move them. I'd keep Regula he's the type of player to come back and bite you in the ass. Kubalik I still like lots I called it before last season started. You don't trade rookie 30 goals scorers. You keep them hoping they haven't reached their peak, At 25 with a whirlpool season like he did handled it pretty good. He has to be in some way rewarded, and having the foresight to keep him. I’m gonna sound like a total homer here. But regardless of what I’ve said about Regula, I love the Michigan kids. Metro Detroit is a hard working area and usually they have hard working values. Kinda like a kid from Saskatchewan. They’ll work their asses off cuz they don’t know any better. So I’m hoping that Regula got his wake up call from his trade, and the Hunters let him know how awesome he can be. I don’t see enough room for Keith, Mitchell, Boqvist, Beaudin, Carlsson being on the same team. 2 at most. Now the other problem is the returns that Stan would get for these kids. He’s gonna look for failed first rounders and roll the dice. I think no matter what, unless he is destroyed, Stan will haunt this team for many years to come!!! |
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Post by doogiew on Apr 11, 2020 15:14:03 GMT -6
All of our young studs could be traded and for extremely ready players. Other than Regula every other Dman is moveable. Kubalik is the only forward I keep the rest of them that doesn't have NTC can go. Now I'm not saying move all of them. If the right deal was there and in many cases the deal would be there to be had. You move them. I'd keep Regula he's the type of player to come back and bite you in the ass. Kubalik I still like lots I called it before last season started. You don't trade rookie 30 goals scorers. You keep them hoping they haven't reached their peak, At 25 with a whirlpool season like he did handled it pretty good. He has to be in some way rewarded, and having the foresight to keep him. I’m gonna sound like a total homer here. But regardless of what I’ve said about Regula, I love the Michigan kids. Metro Detroit is a hard working area and usually they have hard working values. Kinda like a kid from Saskatchewan. They’ll work their asses off cuz they don’t know any better. So I’m hoping that Regula got his wake up call from his trade, and the Hunters let him know how awesome he can be. I don’t see enough room for Keith, Mitchell, Boqvist, Beaudin, Carlsson being on the same team. 2 at most. Now the other problem is the returns that Stan would get for these kids. He’s gonna look for failed first rounders and roll the dice. I think no matter what, unless he is destroyed, Stan will haunt this team for many years to come!!! You're right he'll trade across not up, and finish with a dud. It's his M.O. |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 11, 2020 15:45:02 GMT -6
I've only seen a few offensive highlights myself so I'll trust T's in-person assessment. I guess I just struggle to see how a D-man can pot 27 and still post a +39 at that level has such glaring skating issues,Boqvist potted 20 on the same team the year before and his +12 was unimpressive. Maybe they work with his skating a few years at Rockford but I do understand T's concerns because it's hard to teach speed. Are you saying Mitchell is more mature and composed than a 20yro who played em all for his NHL club this year? Jokiharu cracked a NHL roster and helped his country win a WC @19 and earned the trust of his new coach @20,that trade allowed Buffalo to move both Scandella and Bogosian. Joker also has 20lbs on Mitchell.....another small framed D-man to add to the others. I just looked at the UofDs website and it says Mitchell is 179lbs, not 168. He doesn't look skinny and the three main player sites I check said he was 174 twice and 173. Either way he'll get to the 180s and I think you'll like how he plays. I only listed Moberg because he's a big D prospect, he's a long term project with lots of upside. We both like Gilbert but his corsi isn't the best so that has him in the doghouse despite the team liking him around, especially the goalies. I'm happy to hear that,the Hawks still haven't updated the weight he's listed at. Whether he's 170 or 180lbs,he'll still be spottin' aggressive NHL fore-checkers 20-30lbs and I hope that works. Maybe Gilbert's corsi wasn't very good after only 20gms but exotic stats don't help a guy much when he's sittin' in the quiet room and how good does a tougher than hell #6 have to be anyway. Maybe he ain't good enough but you n me both know this team sees little value in Gilbert's style of play. |
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Post by BigT on Apr 11, 2020 16:18:03 GMT -6
I just looked at the UofDs website and it says Mitchell is 179lbs, not 168. He doesn't look skinny and the three main player sites I check said he was 174 twice and 173. Either way he'll get to the 180s and I think you'll like how he plays. I only listed Moberg because he's a big D prospect, he's a long term project with lots of upside. We both like Gilbert but his corsi isn't the best so that has him in the doghouse despite the team liking him around, especially the goalies. I'm happy to hear that,the Hawks still haven't updated the weight he's listed at. Whether he's 170 or 180lbs,he'll still be spottin' aggressive NHL fore-checkers 20-30lbs and I hope that works. Maybe Gilbert's corsi wasn't very good after only 20gms but exotic stats don't help a guy much when he's sittin' in the quiet room and how good does a tougher than hell #6 have to be anyway. Maybe he ain't good enough but you n me both know this team sees little value in Gilbert's style of play. [br I don’t think Gilbo was that bad. His numbers went down with the team. Just like Boqvist. Those guys didn’t help the team, and they don’t hurt it too much. At least Gilbo hit and fought for his team. The players enjoyed him, and he enjoyed sticking up for them. Chemistry is also a huge factor, something Stan’s numbers don’t explain!!! |
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Post by Tater on Apr 12, 2020 0:35:47 GMT -6
I don’t think Gilbo was that bad. His numbers went down with the team. Just like Boqvist. Those guys didn’t help the team, and they don’t hurt it too much. At least Gilbo hit and fought for his team. The players enjoyed him, and he enjoyed sticking up for them. Chemistry is also a huge factor, something Stan’s numbers don’t explain!!! After his first two games (I believe), his hitting and toughness just disappeared. I'd have to think he was told to settle down and it affected his game. Either way, I think he deserved a longer look.
How much time was Sikura given, and now Nolander. On the top lines to boot.  |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 12, 2020 8:19:28 GMT -6
I don’t think Gilbo was that bad. His numbers went down with the team. Just like Boqvist. Those guys didn’t help the team, and they don’t hurt it too much. At least Gilbo hit and fought for his team. The players enjoyed him, and he enjoyed sticking up for them. Chemistry is also a huge factor, something Stan’s numbers don’t explain!!! After his first two games (I believe), his hitting and toughness just disappeared. I'd have to think he was told to settle down and it affected his game. Either way, I think he deserved a longer look.
How much time was Sikura given, and now Nolander. On the top lines to boot. Hey Tater From what I recall,Gilbert was pretty tough up until his last 5-6 games but I agree,he wasn't effective playing a less physical style. The rugged kid saw four tilts during the month of December,12-6 Simmonds,12-8 Demers,12-21 Landeskog and 12-23 Hayden.....Gilbert only saw six more games after that one. That fight resulted from a big but clean hit by Glibert and an immediate challenge by Hayden(both big men doing their F'n jobs IMO) and a PP due to the NJ instigator call and a decent fight that gave neither team momentum being a draw..... www.hockeyfights.com/fights/n260180 The Hawks were up 1-0 at that point but the PP was the usual dud and they went on to lose 7-1,I guess Gilbert took the blame somehow but all he did was get his a team a PP.....he saw six more starts after that one,scoring a goal in the next game vs the Isle. The 166lb,ultra-timid Sikura saw 34 starts last year with about 20 of em(1/4 season) with Kane and Toews with nothing to show for it while both guys in the video up there had NO value to the team! This team desperately needs a Gilbert type D-man skatin' 10-15 3rd pair minutes(he averaged 15+ in his 21 starts) and I don't care what anybody says......gimmie a John Hayden skatin' 10 4th line minutes too......how much better are Smith and Highmore.....really? |
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Post by BigT on Apr 12, 2020 8:23:36 GMT -6
I don’t think Gilbo was that bad. His numbers went down with the team. Just like Boqvist. Those guys didn’t help the team, and they don’t hurt it too much. At least Gilbo hit and fought for his team. The players enjoyed him, and he enjoyed sticking up for them. Chemistry is also a huge factor, something Stan’s numbers don’t explain!!! After his first two games (I believe), his hitting and toughness just disappeared. I'd have to think he was told to settle down and it affected his game. Either way, I think he deserved a longer look.
How much time was Sikura given, and now Nolander. On the top lines to boot. I remember around the time he got his first goal. He was buzzing all around, looked like a gem. He was playing his role perfectly and someone told him to back the F*** off. So he did. His game declined and so did the Hawks. I think they felt protected, and liberties stopped or at least slowed down quite a bit. Why would anyone draft and allow a kid to play a certain way in the farm, then expect a different player? If I was a GM. And I draft good ole Tater. This guy, I tell ya, he’s a brawler, hits everything in site. Now I’m trying to turn him into a goal scorer. Grapes has an age old saying. “If you’re a crushed, and try to be a rusher, you’ll end up an usher”. It’s true. The tougher guys gotta be the tougher guys, or else they’re done. Possibly the greatest failure of all time is upon us!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Apr 12, 2020 8:31:02 GMT -6
I'm happy to hear that,the Hawks still haven't updated the weight he's listed at. Whether he's 170 or 180lbs,he'll still be spottin' aggressive NHL fore-checkers 20-30lbs and I hope that works. Maybe Gilbert's corsi wasn't very good after only 20gms but exotic stats don't help a guy much when he's sittin' in the quiet room and how good does a tougher than hell #6 have to be anyway. Maybe he ain't good enough but you n me both know this team sees little value in Gilbert's style of play. [br I don’t think Gilbo was that bad. His numbers went down with the team. Just like Boqvist. Those guys didn’t help the team, and they don’t hurt it too much. At least Gilbo hit and fought for his team. The players enjoyed him, and he enjoyed sticking up for them. Chemistry is also a huge factor, something Stan’s numbers don’t explain!!! I still remember both GT's givin' him a swat on the backside with the paddle after throwin' somebody the F outta the crease but we'll have none of that here! I agree with you as far as the 'higher ups' here having zero understanding of team chemistry with none of em EVER lacin' em up......ONCE! |
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Post by BigT on Apr 12, 2020 11:39:08 GMT -6
Hawks 2010 game 6 against the Flyers is on nbc. Good times!!!
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Post by tincup on May 12, 2020 13:01:10 GMT -6
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Post by tincup on May 13, 2020 17:43:22 GMT -6
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Post by hsbob on May 14, 2020 9:00:35 GMT -6
It looks like two and probably three D-men would have to be moved to see Carlsson get meaningful minutes with the logjam.....who are they and how do they get moved? Keith probably stays till the end of the deal and 5.5M is about right with him anyway. Murph is a bit of a value @3.8M IMO and could bring a return,I think there's a good chance he's gone because he's easy to trade and he's not the small D-man the team drools over. Maata isn't a bad D-man but 4M is a bit much with average at best speed but he wouldn't be hard to move either. Seabs and de Haan will both report with every expectation of collecting their 6.8 and 4.6M respectively. Seabs would require the team to retain at least half his money and he'd have to waive.....de Haan would just require a little sweetener with only one year remaining. That's five without a decision on Koekkoek. Sending Boqvist down would be a huge regression at this point but he is tradable and SB likes tradin' young D-men. Beaudin's little ass turns 21 before next year starts too,another year at the Rock probably doesn't sit well with him. Is there any chance that Mitchell wasn't assured a spot to sign? Gilbert will remain buried or more than likely moved to make room for somebody with better manners. It'll be up to SB to make these decisions...…….GOD HELP US! |
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Post by tincup on May 14, 2020 9:17:30 GMT -6
It looks like two and probably three D-men would have to be moved to see Carlsson get meaningful minutes with the logjam.....who are they and how do they get moved? Keith probably stays till the end of the deal and 5.5M is about right with him anyway. Murph is a bit of a value @3.8M IMO and could bring a return,I think there's a good chance he's gone because he's easy to trade and he's not the small D-man the team drools over. Maata isn't a bad D-man but 4M is a bit much with average at best speed but he wouldn't be hard to move either. Seabs and de Haan will both report with every expect*ation of collecting their 6.8 and 4.6M respectively. Seabs would require the team to retain at least half his money and he'd have to waive.....de Haan would just require a little sweetener with only one year remaining. That's five without a decision on Koekkoek. Sending Boqvist down would be a huge regression at this point but he is tradable and SB likes tradin' young D-men. Beaudin's little ass turns 21 before next year starts too,another year at the Rock probably doesn't sit well with him. Is there any chance that Mitchell wasn't assured a spot to sign? Gilbert will remain buried or more than likely moved to make room for somebody with better manners. It'll be up to SB to make these decisions...…….GOD HELP US! Too bad a team just couldn’t run it’s best six and money be damned. But just for the hell of it, who would you consider the best six plus a spare they could run, all things considered and assuming money doesn’t matter? |
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Post by hsbob on May 14, 2020 9:43:58 GMT -6
It looks like two and probably three D-men would have to be moved to see Carlsson get meaningful minutes with the logjam.....who are they and how do they get moved? Keith probably stays till the end of the deal and 5.5M is about right with him anyway. Murph is a bit of a value @3.8M IMO and could bring a return,I think there's a good chance he's gone because he's easy to trade and he's not the small D-man the team drools over. Maata isn't a bad D-man but 4M is a bit much with average at best speed but he wouldn't be hard to move either. Seabs and de Haan will both report with every expect*ation of collecting their 6.8 and 4.6M respectively. Seabs would require the team to retain at least half his money and he'd have to waive.....de Haan would just require a little sweetener with only one year remaining. That's five without a decision on Koekkoek. Sending Boqvist down would be a huge regression at this point but he is tradable and SB likes tradin' young D-men. Beaudin's little ass turns 21 before next year starts too,another year at the Rock probably doesn't sit well with him. Is there any chance that Mitchell wasn't assured a spot to sign? Gilbert will remain buried or more than likely moved to make room for somebody with better manners. It'll be up to SB to make these decisions...…….GOD HELP US! Too bad a team just couldn’t run it’s best six and money be damned. But just for the hell of it, who would you consider the best six plus a spare they could run, all things considered and assuming money doesn’t matter? That's a good question tc but I'm not sure who the six best are,I'd need a full camp to see who's progressed and who's healthy. IMO,Keith and Murph are the team's best two but neither's a #1 and that's a bit of a problem. It's hard to point to the best six with Beaudin and Mitchell having no league experience and de Haan and Seabs coming off injury layoffs. The only thing I can say for sure is I don't want a kid sittin' as a #7 or playing sporadically,that leaves Koek and Seeler and maybe Gilbert since they have no intention in developing him. I guess I'd put Keith and Murph at the top of the list of the ten currently on the roster(only 3 righties),Koek and Seeler at the bottom and the rest is fluid but so is urine!LOL! |
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Post by tincup on May 14, 2020 23:34:40 GMT -6
Too bad a team just couldn’t run it’s best six and money be damned. But just for the hell of it, who would you consider the best six plus a spare they could run, all things considered and assuming money doesn’t matter? That's a good question tc but I'm not sure who the six best are,I'd need a full camp to see who's progressed and who's healthy. IMO,Keith and Murph are the team's best two but neither's a #1 and that's a bit of a problem. It's hard to point to the best six with Beaudin and Mitchell having no league experience and de Haan and Seabs coming off injury layoffs. The only thing I can say for sure is I don't want a kid sittin' as a #7 or playing sporadically,that leaves Koek and Seeler and maybe Gilbert since they have no intention in developing him. I guess I'd put Keith and Murph at the top of the list of the ten currently on the roster(only 3 righties),Koek and Seeler at the bottom and the rest is fluid but so is urine!LOL! Someone else brought this up, OTH?, but I’d be OK moving the French- Canadian kid Beaudin and whatever to Montreal to get their 8th overall. I like Beaudin, he’s a cerebral hockey player but he’s going to be caught up in a numbers game here. I’d also entertain moving Boqvist, not because I dislike him but because I think he’s going to be a bandaid his whole career. I’d target Ottawa’s third first rounder. That leaves me with Keith- Murphy, DeHaan-Koekoek(he’s cheap), and Seabrook-Maata with Carlsson/Mitchell your seventh. Not impressive I’ll grant you. But if the latter pair work out they move into the top six freeing up a possible trade. |
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Post by BigT on May 15, 2020 6:46:00 GMT -6
That's a good question tc but I'm not sure who the six best are,I'd need a full camp to see who's progressed and who's healthy. IMO,Keith and Murph are the team's best two but neither's a #1 and that's a bit of a problem. It's hard to point to the best six with Beaudin and Mitchell having no league experience and de Haan and Seabs coming off injury layoffs. The only thing I can say for sure is I don't want a kid sittin' as a #7 or playing sporadically,that leaves Koek and Seeler and maybe Gilbert since they have no intention in developing him. I guess I'd put Keith and Murph at the top of the list of the ten currently on the roster(only 3 righties),Koek and Seeler at the bottom and the rest is fluid but so is urine!LOL! Someone else brought this up, OTH?, but I’d be OK moving the French- Canadian kid Beaudin and whatever to Montreal to get their 8th overall. I like Beaudin, he’s a cerebral hockey player but he’s going to be caught up in a numbers game here. I’d also entertain moving Boqvist, not because I dislike him but because I think he’s going to be a bandaid his whole career. I’d target Ottawa’s third first rounder. That leaves me with Keith- Murphy, DeHaan-Koekoek(he’s cheap), and Seabrook-Maata with Carlsson/Mitchell your seventh. Not impressive I’ll grant you. But if the latter pair work out they move into the top six freeing up a possible trade. I agree, but I’m a more rebuilding way. I’d try and trade Beaudin and Boqvist as a pair to Ottawa for their lower of the two top ten picks. I feel getting Drysdale would be worth the two of them. Drysdale is a Keith clone. He made team Canada as a 17 year old, and not just make it, he was the top defenseman for Canada that even boasted Byram who’s a year older. 17 year olds rarely make team Canada. Let alone a 17 year old dman. And 17 year old dmen never ever get put on the first pairings. He’s that “can’t miss prospect” and by far the best dman in the draft. I’d take him 2nd overall if I had the pick. I believe he’ll be better than Byfield and Perfetti, Stutzle. The dmen we have are probably NHL caliber. We don’t need that, we need top pairing guys, and we’ll get that in the draft. Guys like that do not grow like hemp, they’re rare and the only place to get them is the draft. This retooling that Stan is doing, may get the team to the playoffs. But so far he’s 0-3 doing it. I feel this needs to be rebuilt, with what we have now, it would only take 2-3 years to do it right. Get 5 first rounders in 3 years, and it takes care of a good load of the work, especially if we’re in the top 3 in the draft for 2 of those 3 years!!! |
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Post by hsbob on May 15, 2020 6:48:13 GMT -6
That's a good question tc but I'm not sure who the six best are,I'd need a full camp to see who's progressed and who's healthy. IMO,Keith and Murph are the team's best two but neither's a #1 and that's a bit of a problem. It's hard to point to the best six with Beaudin and Mitchell having no league experience and de Haan and Seabs coming off injury layoffs. The only thing I can say for sure is I don't want a kid sittin' as a #7 or playing sporadically,that leaves Koek and Seeler and maybe Gilbert since they have no intention in developing him. I guess I'd put Keith and Murph at the top of the list of the ten currently on the roster(only 3 righties),Koek and Seeler at the bottom and the rest is fluid but so is urine!LOL! Someone else brought this up, OTH?, but I’d be OK moving the French- Canadian kid Beaudin and whatever to Montreal to get their 8th overall. I like Beaudin, he’s a cerebral hockey player but he’s going to be caught up in a numbers game here. I’d also entertain moving Boqvist, not because I dislike him but because I think he’s going to be a bandaid his whole career. I’d target Ottawa’s third first rounder. That leaves me with Keith- Murphy, DeHaan-Koekoek(he’s cheap), and Seabrook-Maata with Carlsson/Mitchell your seventh. Not impressive I’ll grant you. But if the latter pair work out they move into the top six freeing up a possible trade. There are just so many possibilities my friend. Your suggested lineup doesn't point to a rebuild with all the old dudes in it,two kids traded and one of two more watching from the press box......I don't trust SB to trade young D-men after last summer! Carlsson should be in Rockford if he doesn't start IMO(but he looked ready),he's a stay at home guy in the making. I believe Mitchell has been promised a spot or at least EVERY opportunity to earn one to sign,I don't want him in the press box either. Koek would be the better #7 or maybe the younger Gilbert if he promises to look the other way when his team mates get pummeled. I'd also move one of Boqvist or Beaudine,Boqvist's a righty but may have trouble staying healthy,the even smaller Beaudine's a left shot and we have a lot of left shots but his speed and IQ are interesting. Tough call....especially for our guy! |
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Post by doogiew on May 15, 2020 7:07:40 GMT -6
It looks like two and probably three D-men would have to be moved to see Carlsson get meaningful minutes with the logjam.....who are they and how do they get moved? Keith probably stays till the end of the deal and 5.5M is about right with him anyway. Murph is a bit of a value @3.8M IMO and could bring a return,I think there's a good chance he's gone because he's easy to trade and he's not the small D-man the team drools over. Maata isn't a bad D-man but 4M is a bit much with average at best speed but he wouldn't be hard to move either. Seabs and de Haan will both report with every expect*ation of collecting their 6.8 and 4.6M respectively. Seabs would require the team to retain at least half his money and he'd have to waive.....de Haan would just require a little sweetener with only one year remaining. That's five without a decision on Koekkoek. Sending Boqvist down would be a huge regression at this point but he is tradable and SB likes tradin' young D-men. Beaudin's little ass turns 21 before next year starts too,another year at the Rock probably doesn't sit well with him. Is there any chance that Mitchell wasn't assured a spot to sign? Gilbert will remain buried or more than likely moved to make room for somebody with better manners. It'll be up to SB to make these decisions...…….GOD HELP US! Too bad a team just couldn’t run it’s best six and money be damned. But just for the hell of it, who would you consider the best six plus a spare they could run, all things considered and assuming money doesn’t matter? I'll touch on Teply first if OK. There is nothing I don't like about this kid. He's a big agile, goal scoring winger. The Hawks need a player like him going forward, more size and skill won't hurt this team. I'd like to remind those who didn't see any merit last season in Kubalik. These European players often get under the radar, and take a bit to get going when thrust right into the NHL. If Kubalik had been productive right away and had a full season one can only wonder. With Stan at the helm this is likely the six I see at the start of the season. Duncs, and Seabs. Lets face it no matter what we wish for these two are lifers. Koekkoek will have to fight for a spot as usual. Murphy, DeHaan, and Maata are likely all on a trade list. I would think DeHaan is traded. When? start of season or trade deadline. His contract expiring makes him easier to predict. Murphy and Maata at least one has to go and it should be Maata as Murphy is one of only three right Dmen on the team. Mitchell is in, unless SB is replaced. If they can be rid of Stan an verbals he may have given the kid go with him. Gilbert is too old school and doesn't fit on a SB team. So Duncs, Seabs, DeHaan, Murphy, Boqvist, and Mitchell, Carlson and Koekkoek platooning 7. Provided Maata is traded. The sad part of all of it is that SB is likely to trade away a good young Dman or two. I don't see Montreal being a destination for Beaudin it is a possibility but I don't see them wanting to return much as he has one game in the NHL. Anaheim could maybe be looking for a smaller talented Dman, but seeing that they would give no more than a pick or prospect he just isn't worth trading yet. I could see Detroit being interested in Beaudin. Stevie Y is in a rebuild and is likely looking for some skill on the blueline. A young team like this could absorb Beaudin but the return would still be a pick or prospect, unless packaged. However Stan burned SY on the Regula trade so it isn't likely to happen twice. Which brings me to my last point. Regula could join the team mid season being a right shot. There it is with this teams defense in the shape it's in nothing is very certain. |
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Post by hsbob on May 15, 2020 7:10:21 GMT -6
Someone else brought this up, OTH?, but I’d be OK moving the French- Canadian kid Beaudin and whatever to Montreal to get their 8th overall. I like Beaudin, he’s a cerebral hockey player but he’s going to be caught up in a numbers game here. I’d also entertain moving Boqvist, not because I dislike him but because I think he’s going to be a bandaid his whole career. I’d target Ottawa’s third first rounder. That leaves me with Keith- Murphy, DeHaan-Koekoek(he’s cheap), and Seabrook-Maata with Carlsson/Mitchell your seventh. Not impressive I’ll grant you. But if the latter pair work out they move into the top six freeing up a possible trade. I agree, but I’m a more rebuilding way. I’d try and trade Beaudin and Boqvist as a pair to Ottawa for their lower of the two top ten picks. I feel getting Drysdale would be worth the two of them. Drysdale is a Keith clone. He made team Canada as a 17 year old, and not just make it, he was the top defenseman for Canada that even boasted Byram who’s a year older. 17 year olds rarely make team Canada. Let alone a 17 year old dman. And 17 year old dmen never ever get put on the first pairings. He’s that “can’t miss prospect” and by far the best dman in the draft. I’d take him 2nd overall if I had the pick. I believe he’ll be better than Byfield and Perfetti, Stutzle. The dmen we have are probably NHL caliber. We don’t need that, we need top pairing guys, and we’ll get that in the draft. Guys like that do not grow like hemp, they’re rare and the only place to get them is the draft. This retooling that Stan is doing, may get the team to the playoffs. But so far he’s 0-3 doing it. I feel this needs to be rebuilt, with what we have now, it would only take 2-3 years to do it right. Get 5 first rounders in 3 years, and it takes care of a good load of the work, especially if we’re in the top 3 in the draft for 2 of those 3 years!!! Everything you say makes sense but it goes off the wheels here due to who's at the helm. If SB stays and it looks like he does,then the guy who traded Joker is the same guy trading Boq or Beau and that's no beuno. Yes,Dach was a good pick but if Boq is moved,Dach is the only #1 SB pick left and that's no bueno either and complicates the drafting angle. It was only two short years ago when I was being told Joker and Boqvist were the next Keith and Karlson and now it looks like one's gone and another is expendable due in part to the injuries he's had......two concussions in Jr's if I recall too. Who's the next Keith and Karlson now? |
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Post by shooter61 on May 15, 2020 8:03:49 GMT -6
you guys all want to trade our 1st round Dmen and get better ones in the draft , well we have been through this before , it's not that easy, be happy with what we got and build from there,to get 5 1st rounders in 3 years , how many pan out,
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Post by tincup on May 15, 2020 8:46:44 GMT -6
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Post by tincup on May 15, 2020 8:54:43 GMT -6
Someone else brought this up, OTH?, but I’d be OK moving the French- Canadian kid Beaudin and whatever to Montreal to get their 8th overall. I like Beaudin, he’s a cerebral hockey player but he’s going to be caught up in a numbers game here. I’d also entertain moving Boqvist, not because I dislike him but because I think he’s going to be a bandaid his whole career. I’d target Ottawa’s third first rounder. That leaves me with Keith- Murphy, DeHaan-Koekoek(he’s cheap), and Seabrook-Maata with Carlsson/Mitchell your seventh. Not impressive I’ll grant you. But if the latter pair work out they move into the top six freeing up a possible trade. There are just so many possibilities my friend. Your suggested lineup doesn't point to a rebuild with all the old dudes in it,two kids traded and one of two more watching from the press box......I don't trust SB to trade young D-men after last summer! Carlsson should be in Rockford if he doesn't start IMO(but he looked ready),he's a stay at home guy in the making. I believe Mitchell has been promised a spot or at least EVERY opportunity to earn one to sign,I don't want him in the press box either. Koek would be the better #7 or maybe the younger Gilbert if he promises to look the other way when his team mates get pummeled. I'd also move one of Boqvist or Beaudine,Boqvist's a righty but may have trouble staying healthy,the even smaller Beaudine's a left shot and we have a lot of left shots but his speed and IQ are interesting. Tough call....especially for our guy! Didn’t Beaudin play his off side with Keith in his one game? If so, the ability to swap sides is a plus. Plus I remember Keith was very complementary towards him. However, maybe size matters. I guess I’m waiting, and hoping that guys like Vlasic and Regula might be the real deal down the road but in a deep draft such as this it seems like a chance to find the elite replacement forwards that the team is also going to need in a couple of years. Decisions, decisions. |
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Post by tincup on May 15, 2020 9:17:03 GMT -6
Someone else brought this up, OTH?, but I’d be OK moving the French- Canadian kid Beaudin and whatever to Montreal to get their 8th overall. I like Beaudin, he’s a cerebral hockey player but he’s going to be caught up in a numbers game here. I’d also entertain moving Boqvist, not because I dislike him but because I think he’s going to be a bandaid his whole career. I’d target Ottawa’s third first rounder. That leaves me with Keith- Murphy, DeHaan-Koekoek(he’s cheap), and Seabrook-Maata with Carlsson/Mitchell your seventh. Not impressive I’ll grant you. But if the latter pair work out they move into the top six freeing up a possible trade. I agree, but I’m a more rebuilding way. I’d try and trade Beaudin and Boqvist as a pair to Ottawa for their lower of the two top ten picks. I feel getting Drysdale would be worth the two of them. Drysdale is a Keith clone. He made team Canada as a 17 year old, and not just make it, he was the top defenseman for Canada that even boasted Byram who’s a year older. 17 year olds rarely make team Canada. Let alone a 17 year old dman. And 17 year old dmen never ever get put on the first pairings. He’s that “can’t miss prospect” and by far the best dman in the draft. I’d take him 2nd overall if I had the pick. I believe he’ll be better than Byfield and Perfetti, Stutzle. The dmen we have are probably NHL caliber. We don’t need that, we need top pairing guys, and we’ll get that in the draft. Guys like that do not grow like hemp, they’re rare and the only place to get them is the draft. This retooling that Stan is doing, may get the team to the playoffs. But so far he’s 0-3 doing it. I feel this needs to be rebuilt, with what we have now, it would only take 2-3 years to do it right. Get 5 first rounders in 3 years, and it takes care of a good load of the work, especially if we’re in the top 3 in the draft for 2 of those 3 years!!! what do you know about this guy T, you follow the OHL? He seems to have been forgotten and now rediscovered. He might be what I’d look for deeper into the first round, why I’d target Ottawa’s last first rounder. He’s ranked anywhere from 21 into the 40’s. I like a 17 year old wearing the “C” as well. |
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Post by BigT on May 15, 2020 14:42:07 GMT -6
I agree, but I’m a more rebuilding way. I’d try and trade Beaudin and Boqvist as a pair to Ottawa for their lower of the two top ten picks. I feel getting Drysdale would be worth the two of them. Drysdale is a Keith clone. He made team Canada as a 17 year old, and not just make it, he was the top defenseman for Canada that even boasted Byram who’s a year older. 17 year olds rarely make team Canada. Let alone a 17 year old dman. And 17 year old dmen never ever get put on the first pairings. He’s that “can’t miss prospect” and by far the best dman in the draft. I’d take him 2nd overall if I had the pick. I believe he’ll be better than Byfield and Perfetti, Stutzle. The dmen we have are probably NHL caliber. We don’t need that, we need top pairing guys, and we’ll get that in the draft. Guys like that do not grow like hemp, they’re rare and the only place to get them is the draft. This retooling that Stan is doing, may get the team to the playoffs. But so far he’s 0-3 doing it. I feel this needs to be rebuilt, with what we have now, it would only take 2-3 years to do it right. Get 5 first rounders in 3 years, and it takes care of a good load of the work, especially if we’re in the top 3 in the draft for 2 of those 3 years!!! what do you know about this guy T, you follow the OHL? He seems to have been forgotten and now rediscovered. He might be what I’d look for deeper into the first round, why I’d target Ottawa’s last first rounder. He’s ranked anywhere from 21 into the 40’s. I like a 17 year old wearing the “C” as well. I’ve seen him, one night we were hammered and it was near Xmas, we were having our coaches party. Looking back is a bit fuzzy, but I do remember a bunch of guys I was with talking him up. I talk to Bowler, I’ll ask him what he thinks of that kid. He’s got good size and decent skill. He’s a solid plus player which I like. The only problem I have is we need another top dman. I don’t see that as of now. Craig Button said last year the Hawks should take Bowen Byram mainly due to his ceiling being higher than anyone we have in the system now. This is why I’d move up at all costs to get Drysdale. If we could move up to the 4/5 slot. We could deal the 9th and Beaudin for the 4th or 5th. If he’s there, we move up. We need that top caliber dman, and I promise, Drysdale is just that. It would been nice to have a future d core of Byram, Drysdale, Mitchell, Carlsson. That would have been the best for this franchise. Any of them could turn into the top pairing future core we need. I’d even trade Boqvist for Byram right now if they’d do it. Or I’d trade Saad there with half his salary retained for Byram. Byram could easily be a 2-3 dman and maybe as high as a #1. Right now we need to revamp the dcore, what we have isn’t good enough. I’d definitely take a shot at O’Rouke if he’s still there in the early 2nd round. But I doubt it due to not many dmen in this draft. So the teams looking for a dman are gonna take one with their late 1st rounders!!! |
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Post by tincup on May 15, 2020 15:02:45 GMT -6
I’ve seen him, one night we were hammered and it was near Xmas, we were having our coaches party. Looking back is a bit fuzzy, but I do remember a bunch of guys I was with talking him up. I talk to Bowler, I’ll ask him what he thinks of that kid. He’s got good size and decent skill. He’s a solid plus player which I like. The only problem I have is we need another top dman. I don’t see that as of now. Craig Button said last year the Hawks should take Bowen Byram mainly due to his ceiling being higher than anyone we have in the system now. This is why I’d move up at all costs to get Drysdale. If we could move up to the 4/5 slot. We could deal the 9th and Beaudin for the 4th or 5th. If he’s there, we move up. We need that top caliber dman, and I promise, Drysdale is just that. It would been nice to have a future d core of Byram, Drysdale, Mitchell, Carlsson. That would have been the best for this franchise. Any of them could turn into the top pairing future core we need. I’d even trade Boqvist for Byram right now if they’d do it. Or I’d trade Saad there with half his salary retained for Byram. Byram could easily be a 2-3 dman and maybe as high as a #1. Right now we need to revamp the dcore, what we have isn’t good enough. I’d definitely take a shot at O’Rouke if he’s still there in the early 2nd round. But I doubt it due to not many dmen in this draft. So the teams looking for a dman are gonna take one with their late 1st rounders!!! I hear you about Drysdale but I just can’t see it happening so I’m looking for alternatives or next best. Somewhere there is a steal to be had. |
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Post by hsbob on May 15, 2020 17:09:59 GMT -6
There are just so many possibilities my friend. Your suggested lineup doesn't point to a rebuild with all the old dudes in it,two kids traded and one of two more watching from the press box......I don't trust SB to trade young D-men after last summer! Carlsson should be in Rockford if he doesn't start IMO(but he looked ready),he's a stay at home guy in the making. I believe Mitchell has been promised a spot or at least EVERY opportunity to earn one to sign,I don't want him in the press box either. Koek would be the better #7 or maybe the younger Gilbert if he promises to look the other way when his team mates get pummeled. I'd also move one of Boqvist or Beaudine,Boqvist's a righty but may have trouble staying healthy,the even smaller Beaudine's a left shot and we have a lot of left shots but his speed and IQ are interesting. Tough call....especially for our guy! Didn’t Beaudin play his off side with Keith in his one game? If so, the ability to swap sides is a plus. Plus I remember Keith was very complementary towards him. However, maybe size matters. I guess I’m waiting, and hoping that guys like Vlasic and Regula might be the real deal down the road but in a deep draft such as this it seems like a chance to find the elite replacement forwards that the team is also going to need in a couple of years. Decisions, decisions. Didn't he get a bit dinged-up in his first game too? I know many think I dwell on size with D-men because I want to see more of the pack mentality in front of our poor abused GT and I do but I also see that ONE sub 170lb D-man(veteran Jarod Spurgeon)was able to survive the league last year and only a dozen or so sub 180lb D-men skated 40 games or more. If these smaller D-men are EXCEPTIONALLY fast and get to the puck early enough to make a play and avoid the oncoming fore-check they have a chance to stay healthy but there are other areas that require physicality that wears down even bigger players like taking a hit to get it out,taking a hit to keep it in and net front jostling is another story but it's one that isn't really required here. Size and ability to stay healthy aside,I like Beaudin's foot speed and top notch hockey IQ and if I had to choose between him and Boq,I'm not sure. I'm not advocating to get rid of either,I just don't know how many small(and I mean small) D-men can be on the same roster. I too see a need for the puck mover in today's game and a smaller,fleet footed kid with a good head on his shoulders fills the bill. There's also a difference between the 170-180lb veteran who knows how to avoid the big hit and how to take it if he can't,he'll also get the benefit of the doubt on calls a rook won't. Many other teams can absorb the smaller,young player because most of roster would look out for em but the 168lb Beaudine,the 173lb Mitchell and the 179lb Boqvist would absolutely be on a island here. |
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Post by doogiew on May 16, 2020 5:10:20 GMT -6
Didn’t Beaudin play his off side with Keith in his one game? If so, the ability to swap sides is a plus. Plus I remember Keith was very complementary towards him. However, maybe size matters. I guess I’m waiting, and hoping that guys like Vlasic and Regula might be the real deal down the road but in a deep draft such as this it seems like a chance to find the elite replacement forwards that the team is also going to need in a couple of years. Decisions, decisions. Didn't he get a bit dinged-up in his first game too? I know many think I dwell on size with D-men because I want to see more of the pack mentality in front of our poor abused GT and I do but I also see that ONE sub 170lb D-man(veteran Jarod Spurgeon)was able to survive the league last year and only a dozen or so sub 180lb D-men skated 40 games or more. If these smaller D-men are EXCEPTIONALLY fast and get to the puck early enough to make a play and avoid the oncoming fore-check they have a chance to stay healthy but there are other areas that require physicality that wears down even bigger players like taking a hit to get it out,taking a hit to keep it in and net front jostling is another story but it's one that isn't really required here. Size and ability to stay healthy aside,I like Beaudin's foot speed and top notch hockey IQ and if I had to choose between him and Boq,I'm not sure. I'm not advocating to get rid of either,I just don't know how many small(and I mean small) D-men can be on the same roster. I too see a need for the puck mover in today's game and a smaller,fleet footed kid with a good head on his shoulders fills the bill. There's also a difference between the 170-180lb veteran who knows how to avoid the big hit and how to take it if he can't,he'll also get the benefit of the doubt on calls a rook won't. Many other teams can absorb the smaller,young player because most of roster would look out for em but the 168lb Beaudine,the 173lb Mitchell and the 179lb Boqvist would absolutely be on a island here. Depending on where you get your info Beaudin is 5'11" 176 lbs. His stats on the Hawks website haven't changed since he was drafted. He's the same height as Drysdale and Boqvist. Also the kids prospect ranking dropped last season mostly due to him learning how to play the opposite side and better defensively. He's tougher than Boqvist as well in my opinion and Boqvist injury prone season proved that. Beaudin would be the easier trade I believe simply due to Boqvist injuries. Myself if I'm trading anyone for anything it would be Boqvist. Simply because he would bring a decent return and injuries. What the Hawks D lacks is size as almost all I have mentioned. I like Drysdale, there's a possibility that he might still grow some, but let's face it he's the same size as Boqvist, and Beaudin. Which is the same reasoning so many have for trading the killers B's haha. At this time I definitely don't see SB able to make a decent trade. I see others being traded before either. Stan isn't capable of making good trades for these two players and win. We don't need another Joker Nylander deal. |
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Post by hsbob on May 16, 2020 7:52:35 GMT -6
Didn't he get a bit dinged-up in his first game too? I know many think I dwell on size with D-men because I want to see more of the pack mentality in front of our poor abused GT and I do but I also see that ONE sub 170lb D-man(veteran Jarod Spurgeon)was able to survive the league last year and only a dozen or so sub 180lb D-men skated 40 games or more. If these smaller D-men are EXCEPTIONALLY fast and get to the puck early enough to make a play and avoid the oncoming fore-check they have a chance to stay healthy but there are other areas that require physicality that wears down even bigger players like taking a hit to get it out,taking a hit to keep it in and net front jostling is another story but it's one that isn't really required here. Size and ability to stay healthy aside,I like Beaudin's foot speed and top notch hockey IQ and if I had to choose between him and Boq,I'm not sure. I'm not advocating to get rid of either,I just don't know how many small(and I mean small) D-men can be on the same roster. I too see a need for the puck mover in today's game and a smaller,fleet footed kid with a good head on his shoulders fills the bill. There's also a difference between the 170-180lb veteran who knows how to avoid the big hit and how to take it if he can't,he'll also get the benefit of the doubt on calls a rook won't. Many other teams can absorb the smaller,young player because most of roster would look out for em but the 168lb Beaudine,the 173lb Mitchell and the 179lb Boqvist would absolutely be on a island here. Depending on where you get your info Beaudin is 5'11" 176 lbs. His stats on the Hawks website haven't changed since he was drafted. He's the same height as Drysdale and Boqvist. Also the kids prospect ranking dropped last season mostly due to him learning how to play the opposite side and better defensively. He's tougher than Boqvist as well in my opinion and Boqvist injury prone season proved that. Beaudin would be the easier trade I believe simply due to Boqvist injuries. Myself if I'm trading anyone for anything it would be Boqvist. Simply because he would bring a decent return and injuries. What the Hawks D lacks is size as almost all I have mentioned. I like Drysdale, there's a possibility that he might still grow some, but let's face it he's the same size as Boqvist, and Beaudin. Which is the same reasoning so many have for trading the killers B's haha. At this time I definitely don't see SB able to make a decent trade. I see others being traded before either. Stan isn't capable of making good trades for these two players and win. We don't need another Joker Nylander deal. I have NO problem with keeping Beaudin,he could develop into a fleet footed puck mover in time,I only point out how few D-men his size handle the demands of the league and there are few. I'd be more comfortable having two of our Lil' D-men on the ice at the same time if I haven't watched D-Cat,Boqvist and Dach get targeted with big hits(some borderline) with ZERO response from their team mates and this isn't only uncommon.......it's F'n unnatural IMO and isn't really seen on other teams. D-Cat had to go with Ritchie AND Getzlaf at the same time @5'9" 165lbs while his team mates scampered back to the bench and Hartman had to go with three Ducks himself a while back......something else you just won't see elsewhere. Mitch and Beau will both be 21 when play again and Boq will be 20,these guys are done growing. I think many teams take another 20 or so games to develop and assess a big,tough kid like Gilbert,even if he only ends up a 12 minute #6......he offers a level of protection these Lil dudes will need and is not supplied by anyone else...….if it's allowed at all. There are bigger,tougher D-cores in the league(just about all of em) who would love a speedy puck mover and would protect their small rook.....these teams could absorb one small D-man for that reason. I shudder to think of a lineup with all three in it. JMO |
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Post by BigT on May 16, 2020 9:08:48 GMT -6
Didn't he get a bit dinged-up in his first game too? I know many think I dwell on size with D-men because I want to see more of the pack mentality in front of our poor abused GT and I do but I also see that ONE sub 170lb D-man(veteran Jarod Spurgeon)was able to survive the league last year and only a dozen or so sub 180lb D-men skated 40 games or more. If these smaller D-men are EXCEPTIONALLY fast and get to the puck early enough to make a play and avoid the oncoming fore-check they have a chance to stay healthy but there are other areas that require physicality that wears down even bigger players like taking a hit to get it out,taking a hit to keep it in and net front jostling is another story but it's one that isn't really required here. Size and ability to stay healthy aside,I like Beaudin's foot speed and top notch hockey IQ and if I had to choose between him and Boq,I'm not sure. I'm not advocating to get rid of either,I just don't know how many small(and I mean small) D-men can be on the same roster. I too see a need for the puck mover in today's game and a smaller,fleet footed kid with a good head on his shoulders fills the bill. There's also a difference between the 170-180lb veteran who knows how to avoid the big hit and how to take it if he can't,he'll also get the benefit of the doubt on calls a rook won't. Many other teams can absorb the smaller,young player because most of roster would look out for em but the 168lb Beaudine,the 173lb Mitchell and the 179lb Boqvist would absolutely be on a island here. Depending on where you get your info Beaudin is 5'11" 176 lbs. His stats on the Hawks website haven't changed since he was drafted. He's the same height as Drysdale and Boqvist. Also the kids prospect ranking dropped last season mostly due to him learning how to play the opposite side and better defensively. He's tougher than Boqvist as well in my opinion and Boqvist injury prone season proved that. Beaudin would be the easier trade I believe simply due to Boqvist injuries. Myself if I'm trading anyone for anything it would be Boqvist. Simply because he would bring a decent return and injuries. What the Hawks D lacks is size as almost all I have mentioned. I like Drysdale, there's a possibility that he might still grow some, but let's face it he's the same size as Boqvist, and Beaudin. Which is the same reasoning so many have for trading the killers B's haha. At this time I definitely don't see SB able to make a decent trade. I see others being traded before either. Stan isn't capable of making good trades for these two players and win. We don't need another Joker Nylander deal. Don’t fool yourself about Drysdale. This kid doesn’t need size, he’s the exception to the rule. He’s the first 17 year old dman to play top minutes for team Canada at the WJC. He’s NHL ready. He’s a Keith clone. Can’t miss prospect. We don’t have any of that in our system!!! |
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