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Post by galaxytrash on Sept 14, 2024 20:25:06 GMT -6
Hayes with a nice finish, Del Mastro did a good job finding him when the shooting lane closed. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Sept 14, 2024 20:39:49 GMT -6
Hayes with a nice finish, Del Mastro did a good job finding him when the shooting lane closed. His first prospects showcase I said he reminded me of Seabrook in his own end, he really improved on offense while staying responsible in his own end. |
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Post by Tater on Sept 15, 2024 2:05:24 GMT -6
Sweet fake shot and pass by EDM. Glad they closed it out with a win.
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Post by galaxytrash on Sept 15, 2024 7:04:42 GMT -6
Every time a Dach gets hit I hold my breath. Also, looks like they could use Lardis for those one timers. More than one whiff already. It's not as easy as it looks. He has to play smarter just softly chip it in, upright and undefended is no way to go through the neutral zone. maybe you were referencing this play? definitely left himself open to the elements there. perhaps calling the dach brothers "reckless" would be better than calling them "accident prone". |
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Post by BigT on Sept 15, 2024 8:09:08 GMT -6
Dach reminds me of how Taylor Hall plays. Hall was the most reckless in Jrs. He left himself open to hits many times a game.
I know we hear this a lot. And it’s true. Players have to take the responsibility of protecting themselves. Both Dach bros don’t do a good job of that. Taylor Hall is also that guy. That’s why they’re always injured. Injury prone is not a mystery or bad luck. It’s more of bad habits.
I really think I’d look into trading him at some point. He still has good value. I just don’t see a long career for him!!!
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Post by gigecj on Sept 16, 2024 12:32:54 GMT -6
To All Aging and Non-Aging Hawk Fans (if you're not aging, you might be dead, but that's ok),
It's been tough to closely follow the Blackhawks for a variety of reasons. It's been especially tough to analyze our prospects. Please try to eliminate the tendency towards "homerism" and, if you're willing, reveal your thoughts on this rebuild thus far.
Some key points:
1. Are there any burgeoning Duncan Keiths, Brent Seabrooks or Niklas Hjalmarssons in the system?
2. What about a Jonathan Toews-like player that has been mined and shall produce diamonds?
3. I tend to look at the "next Patrick Kane" to be Bedard. Would you agree?
4. Goaltenders in the vein of C.C.?
5. Coaching like Q?
I look forward to your comments.
Gig
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Post by ebonyraptor on Sept 16, 2024 13:30:36 GMT -6
To All Aging and Non-Aging Hawk Fans (if you're not aging, you might be dead, but that's ok), It's been tough to closely follow the Blackhawks for a variety of reasons. It's been especially tough to analyze our prospects. Please try to eliminate the tendency towards "homerism" and, if you're willing, reveal your thoughts on this rebuild thus far. Some key points: 1. Are there any burgeoning Duncan Keiths, Brent Seabrooks or Niklas Hjalmarssons in the system? 2. What about a Jonathan Toews-like player that has been mined and shall produce diamonds? 3. I tend to look at the "next Patrick Kane" to be Bedard. Would you agree? 4. Goaltenders in the vein of C.C.? 5. Coaching like Q? I look forward to your comments. Gig Let it be known I'm (still) in the aging category.  I feel pretty good about the defense - having a big mobile defense should keep us in many games. The forwards I'm a little less certain on - I'm not down on the forwards but I think they have much to develop and prove before I don't have to put on rose colored glasses to see what I hope to see. The goaltending is real iffy but then goaltending usually is so while I don't see Commesso or Gajan as can't miss prospects - I also think there is still time for them or someone else to rise to the top and be that guy. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Sept 16, 2024 13:42:15 GMT -6
To All Aging and Non-Aging Hawk Fans (if you're not aging, you might be dead, but that's ok), It's been tough to closely follow the Blackhawks for a variety of reasons. It's been especially tough to analyze our prospects. Please try to eliminate the tendency towards "homerism" and, if you're willing, reveal your thoughts on this rebuild thus far. Some key points: 1. Are there any burgeoning Duncan Keiths, Brent Seabrooks or Niklas Hjalmarssons in the system? 2. What about a Jonathan Toews-like player that has been mined and shall produce diamonds? 3. I tend to look at the "next Patrick Kane" to be Bedard. Would you agree? 4. Goaltenders in the vein of C.C.? 5. Coaching like Q? I look forward to your comments. Gig Those are the same questions we all have been asking since 2018. Question should be whom among the youth will be the next best player at their position. |
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Post by Nikos on Sept 16, 2024 13:50:07 GMT -6
Hayes with a nice finish, Del Mastro did a good job finding him when the shooting lane closed. The pass to Hayes is great play recognition on EDM's part. |
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Post by BigT on Sept 16, 2024 14:14:54 GMT -6
Gig, good to hear from ya buddy!
I’m definitely moving forward in the aging dept. It happens I guess.
As for the rebuild. I think they’ve done all they can do to get this far. I’m a little worried that they’ve preyed heavily on skating to where it seems like a fetish. As Chris Cornell once said “sometimes bad can do some good”. So don’t necessarily need bad skaters. But the lesser skaters can do some good for a team.
I don’t believe there’s a Toews type player in the system. I think they lack center depth terribly. I think every center drafted will be on the wing. I see Safonov as a 6’3” 205 center with a well rounded game as the only real option amongst the prospects.
They took Boisvert, he has some real snarl to his game. He’s a big boy at 6’2”. He’s like a Tom Wilson type. He’ll fight and can chip in some goals. He hits very hard. He’s a center, but I’m not sure he’s an NHL center. He could be, but there’s been a lot of questions about him on center and all the other centers. Most of the forwards taken have been small so far. There’s been a few to sneak in that aren’t small. But for the most part…….
On Defense, there is no smaller skaters. I repeat no smaller skaters. Everyone is HUGE. That’s a good thing. A great thing actually. Vlasic 6’6”, Korchinski 6’2”, EDM 6’4”, Allan 6’2”, Rinzel 6’4”, Levshunov 6’2”. Lotta meat back there. Plus Seth is 6’4”.
I’m hoping Levshunov becomes a Heiskanen type player. Very reliable and can score too. I don’t thing the Hawks have the complete package on D. But they have a lot of guys that can do a lot of different things really well.
In my opinion. And I’ve listened to a current Hawks dman tell me that Korchinski is the real deal. And this was before he was signed this summer. He raves about KK. So maybe KK will be the stud #1 dman?
I do believe that this year you’ll see a few players the Hawks have really make you wonder how they slipped. One for sure is Marek Vanacker. He’s a very good player with Hamilton/Brantford of the OHL. Kid literally had a broken shoulder all year. He put up 36 goals and 46 assists for 82 points in 68 games. But he was injured all year and tougher it out. He’s healthy now. And I wouldn’t doubt he gets 50+ goals and gets well over 100 points. He reminds a lot of Wyatt Johnston.
Next is Sam Rinzel. I believe this year in college he will be the best dman in NCAA. As a rookie he tallied 9 goals and 24 assists for 33 points in 38 games. He’s 6’4” and like all Hawks prospects, he’s a fantastic skater. He’ll be good.
I don’t see the highest end in the goalie dept. But they do have Commesso and Gajan as their main goalie prospects. Both have been ok. Commesso is older than Gajan. But I think Gajan will be better in the end. Also, trades for goalies happen all the time. So I’m not worried about that dept…… yet.
As far as coaching goes. The jury is still out on Luke. He’s gotta prove himself this year. He’s never really has a real NHL roster yet. So now he can implement his style of play and dial it in. But he’s definitely gotta show something this year. Cuz if the team is at the bottom again. Change has to come. Can’t say being in the bottom 3 spots is unacceptable then land there again, without change.
Well Gig. I’m older after typing all of that!!!
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Post by gigecj on Sept 16, 2024 15:06:33 GMT -6
T, it's interesting that there are so many "Centers" in this organization. Nevertheless, and I agree with you, there really isn't a Toews throughout.
He was vital in the emerging success of the team ultimately raising the Cup. I don't even think Bedard is a center. He certainly has Face Off issues (C-Dach Part I)
It does appear that defense is the strongest commodity prospect-wise. It was kinda unfortunate, I think, but I do believe that they had to do it, that their overall #1 had to be a D-man this past draft. Oh well. Maybe they'll make some trades and a few FA signings in order to complete the team in due time.
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Post by BigT on Sept 16, 2024 15:24:56 GMT -6
T, it's interesting that there are so many "Centers" in this organization. Nevertheless, and I agree with you, there really isn't a Toews throughout. He was vital in the emerging success of the team ultimately raising the Cup. I don't even think Bedard is a center. He certainly has Face Off issues (C-Dach Part I) It does appear that defense is the strongest commodity prospect-wise. It was kinda unfortunate, I think, but I do believe that had to do it, that their overall #1 had to be a D-man this past draft. Oh well. Maybe they'll make some trades and a few FA signings in order to complete the team in due time. I agree. I think the heavy lifting is done. Now it’s just time to sift through some of these fellas and see what ya got. What’s left over is more than likely trade bait. You’ll definitely see some kids dealt that’ll make your head spin. But a GM doesn’t want to be the guy who blocked a kids career. Just like Askarov, time came for him to leave. No room there. Can’t block him from playing. Plus a trade or three can come up and the Hawks will more than likely look to bolster the lineup again. There’s quite a few players that’ll be done here in the next two years. Dicky, Foligno, Hall, TJ, AA, Kurashev, Reichel, Martinez, Maroon, C Smith, Murphy, Donato, Mrazek, Broissant. I feel there’ll be a few retained due to you just can’t turn over a whole roster like that. Kurashev will probably be re-signed. Maybe Reichel. I think Dicky will be brought back. Possibly Hall. But I think the rest retire, or maybe give it one last shot elsewhere. So there’s a ton of cap space and roster spots for kids. Change is a coming my man!!! |
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Post by Nikos on Sept 16, 2024 16:09:02 GMT -6
T, it's interesting that there are so many "Centers" in this organization. Nevertheless, and I agree with you, there really isn't a Toews throughout. He was vital in the emerging success of the team ultimately raising the Cup. I don't even think Bedard is a center. He certainly has Face Off issues (C-Dach Part I) It does appear that defense is the strongest commodity prospect-wise. It was kinda unfortunate, I think, but I do believe that had to do it, that their overall #1 had to be a D-man this past draft. Oh well. Maybe they'll make some trades and a few FA signings in order to complete the team in due time. I agree. I think the heavy lifting is done. Now it’s just time to sift through some of these fellas and see what ya got. What’s left over is more than likely trade bait. You’ll definitely see some kids dealt that’ll make your head spin. But a GM doesn’t want to be the guy who blocked a kids career. Just like Askarov, time came for him to leave. No room there. Can’t block him from playing. Plus a trade or three can come up and the Hawks will more than likely look to bolster the lineup again. There’s quite a few players that’ll be done here in the next two years. Dicky, Foligno, Hall, TJ, AA, Kurashev, Reichel, Martinez, Maroon, C Smith, Murphy, Donato, Mrazek, Broissant. I feel there’ll be a few retained due to you just can’t turn over a whole roster like that. Kurashev will probably be re-signed. Maybe Reichel. I think Dicky will be brought back. Possibly Hall. But I think the rest retire, or maybe give it one last shot elsewhere. So there’s a ton of cap space and roster spots for kids. Change is a coming my man!!! You never have enough D, so if Hawks have plenty as most here believe, there will be trades. All of these young forwards, not enough room, some will be moved. The Hawks will look much different starting 2026-2027. |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Sept 16, 2024 16:20:47 GMT -6
T, it's interesting that there are so many "Centers" in this organization. Nevertheless, and I agree with you, there really isn't a Toews throughout. He was vital in the emerging success of the team ultimately raising the Cup. I don't even think Bedard is a center. He certainly has Face Off issues (C-Dach Part I) It does appear that defense is the strongest commodity prospect-wise. It was kinda unfortunate, I think, but I do believe that had to do it, that their overall #1 had to be a D-man this past draft. Oh well. Maybe they'll make some trades and a few FA signings in order to complete the team in due time. I agree. I think the heavy lifting is done. Now it’s just time to sift through some of these fellas and see what ya got. What’s left over is more than likely trade bait. You’ll definitely see some kids dealt that’ll make your head spin. But a GM doesn’t want to be the guy who blocked a kids career. Just like Askarov, time came for him to leave. No room there. Can’t block him from playing. Plus a trade or three can come up and the Hawks will more than likely look to bolster the lineup again. There’s quite a few players that’ll be done here in the next two years. Dicky, Foligno, Hall, TJ, AA, Kurashev, Reichel, Martinez, Maroon, C Smith, Murphy, Donato, Mrazek, Broissant. I feel there’ll be a few retained due to you just can’t turn over a whole roster like that. Kurashev will probably be re-signed. Maybe Reichel. I think Dicky will be brought back. Possibly Hall. But I think the rest retire, or maybe give it one last shot elsewhere. So there’s a ton of cap space and roster spots for kids. Change is a coming my man!!! I'm not so sure the heavy lifting is done, at least not in terms of high draft picks. Even with what should be an improved roster I would be surprised if they don't finish in the bottom-5 and get a top-5 draft pick - they have a LONG way to climb out of the cellar. |
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Post by gigecj on Sept 16, 2024 19:07:49 GMT -6
I think that te Hawks do still have a long way to go. That said, and this is bearing itself with teams in other sports such as the Chicago Bears. There comes a time when a GM has to stop tanking and start taking the next step by creating a competitive team, one that can support the Connor Bedards and even those that are closer to "just ok" so that you can begin to see more productivity as others on the team will work to keep the ice flat rather than slanted just as one example.
This year fits the bill so to speak by signing proven veterans to do just that while also lending their experience to the locker room.
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Post by BigT on Sept 16, 2024 20:10:22 GMT -6
I agree. I think the heavy lifting is done. Now it’s just time to sift through some of these fellas and see what ya got. What’s left over is more than likely trade bait. You’ll definitely see some kids dealt that’ll make your head spin. But a GM doesn’t want to be the guy who blocked a kids career. Just like Askarov, time came for him to leave. No room there. Can’t block him from playing. Plus a trade or three can come up and the Hawks will more than likely look to bolster the lineup again. There’s quite a few players that’ll be done here in the next two years. Dicky, Foligno, Hall, TJ, AA, Kurashev, Reichel, Martinez, Maroon, C Smith, Murphy, Donato, Mrazek, Broissant. I feel there’ll be a few retained due to you just can’t turn over a whole roster like that. Kurashev will probably be re-signed. Maybe Reichel. I think Dicky will be brought back. Possibly Hall. But I think the rest retire, or maybe give it one last shot elsewhere. So there’s a ton of cap space and roster spots for kids. Change is a coming my man!!! I'm not so sure the heavy lifting is done, at least not in terms of high draft picks. Even with what should be an improved roster I would be surprised if they don't finish in the bottom-5 and get a top-5 draft pick - they have a LONG way to climb out of the cellar. But the heavy lifting is done. One more top 5 pick won’t be much more of the heavy lifting on this front. I think they’ll get somewhere from 8-12. Unless they win the lotto and move up. Most of the pieces are more than likely here. My only fear is the amount of centermen the team has. I understand they’ve drafted a litany of smaller kids. I’m sure most will make it, but not as centers. I’m not even sure Bedards a center at this point. Getting a number one or two center in Free Agency or in a trade is going to be very steep. Almost backwards. So I hope the team gets at least one gift and an unknown becomes something special. It’s possible with the amount of prospects collected. I hope they can target a young center in a trade or draft all centers next year, the bigger the better!!! |
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Post by ebonyraptor on Sept 16, 2024 20:54:01 GMT -6
I'm not so sure the heavy lifting is done, at least not in terms of high draft picks. Even with what should be an improved roster I would be surprised if they don't finish in the bottom-5 and get a top-5 draft pick - they have a LONG way to climb out of the cellar. But the heavy lifting is done. One more top 5 pick won’t be much more of the heavy lifting on this front. I think they’ll get somewhere from 8-12. Unless they win the lotto and move up. Most of the pieces are more than likely here. My only fear is the amount of centermen the team has. I understand they’ve drafted a litany of smaller kids. I’m sure most will make it, but not as centers. I’m not even sure Bedards a center at this point. Getting a number one or two center in Free Agency or in a trade is going to be very steep. Almost backwards. So I hope the team gets at least one gift and an unknown becomes something special. It’s possible with the amount of prospects collected. I hope they can target a young center in a trade or draft all centers next year, the bigger the better!!! Gotcha - I misunderstood what you meant by heavy lifting. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Sept 17, 2024 5:55:41 GMT -6
I'm not so sure the heavy lifting is done, at least not in terms of high draft picks. Even with what should be an improved roster I would be surprised if they don't finish in the bottom-5 and get a top-5 draft pick - they have a LONG way to climb out of the cellar. But the heavy lifting is done. One more top 5 pick won’t be much more of the heavy lifting on this front. I think they’ll get somewhere from 8-12. Unless they win the lotto and move up. Most of the pieces are more than likely here. My only fear is the amount of centermen the team has. I understand they’ve drafted a litany of smaller kids. I’m sure most will make it, but not as centers. I’m not even sure Bedards a center at this point. Getting a number one or two center in Free Agency or in a trade is going to be very steep. Almost backwards. So I hope the team gets at least one gift and an unknown becomes something special. It’s possible with the amount of prospects collected. I hope they can target a young center in a trade or draft all centers next year, the bigger the better!!! A litany of smaller kids? Bedard, Nazar, Moore were first round forwards under 6', Boisvert and Vanacker are the other two forwards drafted in the first round and they're 6'2", 6'1". After the first there's Ludwinski, Lardis, and Savoie that are under 6' and a much longer list of players above 6'. KD has drafted more forwards 6' and up than under, not sure why you said a litany of smaller kids. |
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Post by BigT on Sept 17, 2024 6:21:26 GMT -6
But the heavy lifting is done. One more top 5 pick won’t be much more of the heavy lifting on this front. I think they’ll get somewhere from 8-12. Unless they win the lotto and move up. Most of the pieces are more than likely here. My only fear is the amount of centermen the team has. I understand they’ve drafted a litany of smaller kids. I’m sure most will make it, but not as centers. I’m not even sure Bedards a center at this point. Getting a number one or two center in Free Agency or in a trade is going to be very steep. Almost backwards. So I hope the team gets at least one gift and an unknown becomes something special. It’s possible with the amount of prospects collected. I hope they can target a young center in a trade or draft all centers next year, the bigger the better!!! A litany of smaller kids? Bedard, Nazar, Moore were first round forwards under 6', Boisvert and Vanacker are the other two forwards drafted in the first round and they're 6'2", 6'1". After the first there's Ludwinski, Lardis, and Savoie that are under 6' and a much longer list of players above 6'. KD has drafted more forwards 6' and up than under, not sure why you said a litany of smaller kids. I think you just answered that. There’s a litany of smaller kids you just mentioned. You named 6. And half of them were 1st rounders. There’s a few more in there like Kantserov etc. Most of the size came later in the draft. So can’t really rely on 3-6 rounders to lead the rebuild. If 2 of them make it, that’s a huge bonus!!! |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Sept 17, 2024 7:34:04 GMT -6
A litany of smaller kids? Bedard, Nazar, Moore were first round forwards under 6', Boisvert and Vanacker are the other two forwards drafted in the first round and they're 6'2", 6'1". After the first there's Ludwinski, Lardis, and Savoie that are under 6' and a much longer list of players above 6'. KD has drafted more forwards 6' and up than under, not sure why you said a litany of smaller kids. I think you just answered that. There’s a litany of smaller kids you just mentioned. You named 6. And half of them were 1st rounders. There’s a few more in there like Kantserov etc. Most of the size came later in the draft. So can’t really rely on 3-6 rounders to lead the rebuild. If 2 of them make it, that’s a huge bonus!!! There you go again saying litany 🤣 half of the forwards KDs drafted in the first two rounds are under 6', far from a litany of players. And you said there's a few more smaller forwards that I didn't list, like Kantserov etc, Kantserov is the ONLY other forward he drafted that's under 6', not a few. There's also a couple bigger guys drafted in the second round you failed to mention, who could be future top9 centers, Greene and Misiak. Greene is a tough newfie who plays a similar style to Toews and he said he's going to focus more on offense this season, he was just under a point per game last season. Misiak had an up and down season last year but still managed 20 goals as a rookie in his first year in North America. Sure 3rd rounders and later have lower odds of making it but KD has really good scouts and it's a good sign when 3rd rounders make the World Juniors, like Hayes. And now an 18yr old 3rd rounder might make it, Spellacy. Also, AJ is being moved to center this season, so there's another potential centermen. Chicago's drafted a litany of centers. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Sept 17, 2024 8:39:45 GMT -6
To All Aging and Non-Aging Hawk Fans (if you're not aging, you might be dead, but that's ok), It's been tough to closely follow the Blackhawks for a variety of reasons. It's been especially tough to analyze our prospects. Please try to eliminate the tendency towards "homerism" and, if you're willing, reveal your thoughts on this rebuild thus far. Some key points: 1. Are there any burgeoning Duncan Keiths, Brent Seabrooks or Niklas Hjalmarssons in the system? 2. What about a Jonathan Toews-like player that has been mined and shall produce diamonds? 3. I tend to look at the "next Patrick Kane" to be Bedard. Would you agree? 4. Goaltenders in the vein of C.C.? 5. Coaching like Q? I look forward to your comments. Gig 1: Vlassic looks to be a Hjammer-type with Seabrook's size. Easily the best defensive player last year and would be in the top-4 on most teams in my opinion. I am not sure if there is a Seabrook or Keith-type yet. Korch is too young to flesh out just yet and Jones is a Campbell-type. 2: I haven't seen a Toews-type. Bedard might be a Kane on Steroids but no center 2-way stud has appeared yet. No Hossa-type either. Not saying one doesn't exist in the system, but none have appeared yet. 3: see 2  4: I haven't seen enough of Der Commesso or any off the other netminder prospects to see if they are the real deal yet. Soderblom looks as forgettable as Munro though. 5: Nope. LR might be a Yawney/Savard. It's what we need now so not a big deal. I figure if LR doesnt prove to be the guy we've was out in a couple of years. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Sept 17, 2024 11:05:31 GMT -6
A litany of smaller kids? Bedard, Nazar, Moore were first round forwards under 6', Boisvert and Vanacker are the other two forwards drafted in the first round and they're 6'2", 6'1". After the first there's Ludwinski, Lardis, and Savoie that are under 6' and a much longer list of players above 6'. KD has drafted more forwards 6' and up than under, not sure why you said a litany of smaller kids. I think you just answered that. There’s a litany of smaller kids you just mentioned. You named 6. And half of them were 1st rounders. There’s a few more in there like Kantserov etc. Most of the size came later in the draft. So can’t really rely on 3-6 rounders to lead the rebuild. If 2 of them make it, that’s a huge bonus!!! Just curious what you consider to be a small player? Going by weight I'd say under 190lbs, height, under 5'11". The average in the NHL is 6'1" 200lbs, I wouldn't consider someone close to either as small. Lardis and Kantserov are small but that's it, and they don't play like it. When Moore was drafted he was listed at 5'11" 194lbs, he looked bigger last season and I'm sure he added more weight over the summer. He might've grown a inch or two as well, so he could be 6' 205lbs now. Nazar was in the mid 180s when drafted and was noticeably bigger last summer, he added more this summer, he might be in the mid 190s. Bedard was listed at 185lbs when he was 16, I highly doubt he never added weight with all the muscle he gained, even if he's maxes out at 5'10" he'll be at or over 200lbs when he's fully developed. Ludwinski is bigger too, he said he's in the 190s now, might be 6' as well. Plus with the plethora of picks after the first two rounds over the last 3yrs, the odds of 2 or more making it are pretty good. And they're all big. Bonus if there's a Sharp or Buff type in there. |
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Post by mvr on Sept 17, 2024 13:41:31 GMT -6
To address the size issue:
Good teams tend to have at least one (but more often two or more wingers) who are large and heavy (at least 6'3" 225 pound plus).
Physicality does not just come from fighting. It also helps with board battles and assuming control in front the opponent's net.
Smaller guys like Andrew Shaw can be willing, but they don't have the physical strength nor the reach to match up against big defenders such as Chris Pronger. You need a Byfuglien or a Bickell or a Hossa to overcome these types. As it stands, the Hawk's prospect options here are very limited.
Along with power wingers, I very much value a hulking, two-way centre - ie Handzus, Otto, Hanzal, Gratton, Creighton - for some spot in the top nine. Ideally, he would be 6'4" minimum and 235 pounds. The Hawks had a potential useful one - Kirby Dach - but in their wisdom traded him away for yet another 5'9" puck distributor who can make pretty plays. We will see if this turns out to have been a wise move.
As OldtimeHawky notes above, there are finally some forward prospects in the system with at least league average size. But there is a difference between a Hossa and a Saad, and I think this is the real issue here Big T and others are addressing.
Drafting forwards with legit size needs to become a priority. It is really the only glaring hole left in the prospect pool. Boston reached to grab Dean Letoureau early this past draft. Davidson might need to take a similar approach next June. Good ones are very hard to find. It is definitely worthwhile at this stage to sacrifice a bit on skill and speed to get some bigger bodies in the system.
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Post by gigecj on Sept 17, 2024 14:57:36 GMT -6
Thinking about two guys who could possibly become a Toews' sort of player...
What about one of these: Sacha Boisvert or Oliver Moore?
I've only been able to see very small sample size of videos and then only in the offensive. So, I have zero knowledge of their 2-way capabilities.
What say ye?
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Sept 17, 2024 16:01:27 GMT -6
To address the size issue: Good teams tend to have at least one (but more often two or more wingers) who are large and heavy (at least 6'3" 225 pound plus). Physicality does not just come from fighting. It also helps with board battles and assuming control in front the opponent's net. Smaller guys like Andrew Shaw can be willing, but they don't have the physical strength nor the reach to match up against big defenders such as Chris Pronger. You need a Byfuglien or a Bickell or a Hossa to overcome these types. As it stands, the Hawk's prospect options here are very limited. Along with power wingers, I very much value a hulking, two-way centre - ie Handzus, Otto, Hanzal, Gratton, Creighton - for some spot in the top nine. Ideally, he would be 6'4" minimum and 235 pounds. The Hawks had a potential useful one - Kirby Dach - but in their wisdom traded him away for yet another 5'9" puck distributor who can make pretty plays. We will see if this turns out to have been a wise move. As OldtimeHawky notes above, there are finally some forward prospects in the system with at least league average size. But there is a difference between a Hossa and a Saad, and I think this is the real issue here Big T and others are addressing. Drafting forwards with legit size needs to become a priority. It is really the only glaring hole left in the prospect pool. Boston reached to grab Dean Letoureau early this past draft. Davidson might need to take a similar approach next June. Good ones are very hard to find. It is definitely worthwhile at this stage to sacrifice a bit on skill and speed to get some bigger bodies in the system. Fighting is almost a thing of the past, so it's only a bonus if they can. But it would be nice to have a guy who's 6'4" on the top lines, although Edmonton and Florida didn't have any on their top6. Byfuglien was an 8th round pick, Handzus was a 4th rounder, so it's not impossible to think someone the Hawks drafted after the second round might make it. There's some hulking guys in the system, Felcman, Oscarson, Tohila, and Marcel², 6'4" up to 6'8". Kirby is 6'4" but he's not that heavy and he's very fragile, I'd rather have Nazar and Hayes. KD hasn't drafted any hulking guys in the first round but it should be a priority next year, maybe find two guys in the first. Boisvert and Vanacker are at least a step in the right direction for added size. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Sept 17, 2024 16:16:17 GMT -6
Thinking about two guys who could possibly become a Toews' sort of player... What about one of these: Sacha Boisvert or Oliver Moore? I've only been able to see very small sample size of videos and then only in the offensive. So, I have zero knowledge of their 2-way capabilities. What say ye? My two nickels, no pennies in Canada. I've only watched videos too, and Moore at the World Juniors, but some vids broke down all aspects of their games and it showed them in the defensive zone, both are very responsible and good at reading plays, not at a Toews level but they might come close. Of all the prospects, I'd say Vanacker and Greene are probably more like Toews. Both are tenacious at getting pucks back and they can control the play in the offensive zone. |
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Post by mvr on Sept 17, 2024 18:43:53 GMT -6
Dach is listed at 6'4" and 220 pounds. Likely he's up to 230-40 over the next two to three years.
Clearly, he's had bad luck with injuries, and he puts himself in a bad position at times. There is also the issue with faceoffs. But he is still young at age 23 and has 99 points already despite all the missed games.
I believe Colliton miscast him. Dach was never going to be an elite scorer. Given the right coaching, however, he's an ideal second line shutdown centre. I believe he will top out at 55-60 points. It's too early to predict, but Nazar might never score even that much. Will Hayes even play?
To my mind, this trade was Davidson's worst. You don't trade big power forwards, and especially potential centres. They are far too hard to find. Small speed guys are available every draft.
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Post by BigT on Sept 17, 2024 18:44:22 GMT -6
I feel if you get bigger guys, and add it with the smaller skilled guys, it makes life a lot easier for the smaller dudes. Personally I’d like one huge centerman. 6’3” or 6’4”. Even if they don’t hit or fight very much. It’s just to have a big frame that’s hard to play against.
On the bright side. The D should be very tough to play against. Maybe there won’t be a true #1. But I think they have enough to do it by committee, and do it well.
I still feel we’re gonna see a trade next off season that will drive fans crazy. You’ll see a couple really good prospects traded for a known commodity. I think that’s how they’ll get the roster in a better place!!!
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Post by BigT on Sept 17, 2024 18:49:57 GMT -6
Dach is listed at 6'4" and 220 pounds. Likely he's up to 230-40 over the next two to three years. Clearly, he's had bad luck with injuries, and he puts himself in a bad position at times. There is also the issue with faceoffs. But he is still young at age 23 and has 99 points already despite all the missed games. I believe Colliton miscast him. Dach was never going to be an elite scorer. Given the right coaching, however, he's an ideal second line shutdown centre. I believe he will top out at 55-60 points. It's too early to predict, but Nazer might never score even that much. To my mind, this trade was Davidson's worst. You don't trade big power forwards, and especially potential centres. They are far too hard to find. Small speed guys are available every draft. Kirby Dach is as on Spittin Chickletts at the beginning of the playoffs. He said that Colliton had him chase around #1 centers and try to shut them down. He said it was very detrimental to him and crushed his confidence. He also said he’s not really interested in being a shut down type player. So he sees himself as more of a scorer. I doubt he’d accept a shut down role. He may end up a good scorer. All he needs is to stop being reckless and try to last a full season for once. Even if he takes the easy way out from time to time. Another injury riddled season and he’ll be a failed prospect!!! |
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Post by mvr on Sept 17, 2024 19:20:52 GMT -6
Dach was right to be upset. A smart coach doesn't line up a kid against the other team's best players. The shutdown role is handed to the veteran talent who know the league.
Dach should have started on the third line. Eventually you hand him more of a role when he is ready. He will never be a big scorer.
I see the same issue with Reichel last year. It was ridiculous to play him at the centre position, especially in a top six role. What were the coaches thinking? It is no surprise to my mind that the player lost all confidence. He should have started on the wing on the third line.
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