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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 11:21:31 GMT -6
Hey rat..... I'm not saying I was SB's biggest supporter but you,Phill and T all know that I did take his side in debates with all of you but when things become obvious,only a complete fool would ignore them and I guess I'm more of an incomplete fool. I know I said this a few times but with the exception of D-Cat,where in the hell are the solid 2nd round,3rd round,4th round and 5th round picks that almost every other team relies on to make a difference? That is the scariest part of all. No depth whatsoever. Just look at what the Blues and Avs have been able to do with injuries to key players. It’s gonna be a long long time before this team is competitive again. And not only because of some of the contracts the team is saddled with for the next few years. But because there is very little talent coming through the pipeline. And when I mention contracts, I’m not only talking about the ones we have had for awhile. I’m also talking about the new ones this genius has brought in recently. Like Mattaa for over 4mil per. Or Smith for over 3mil per. Nobody is taking those off our hands anytime soon either. Bowman has gutted this franchise from the inside out and he started from just about the time he took the job. Winning the Cups was blinding people to what he was doing and how it was going to inevitably lead us to exactly where we are.  |
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Post by rinkrat21 on Dec 9, 2019 11:43:25 GMT -6
That is the scariest part of all. No depth whatsoever. Just look at what the Blues and Avs have been able to do with injuries to key players. It’s gonna be a long long time before this team is competitive again. And not only because of some of the contracts the team is saddled with for the next few years. But because there is very little talent coming through the pipeline. And when I mention contracts, I’m not only talking about the ones we have had for awhile. I’m also talking about the new ones this genius has brought in recently. Like Mattaa for over 4mil per. Or Smith for over 3mil per. Nobody is taking those off our hands anytime soon either. Bowman has gutted this franchise from the inside out and he started from just about the time he took the job. Winning the Cups was blinding people to what he was doing and how it was going to inevitably lead us to exactly where we are. 😂 Good one 😜 |
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Post by squishy24 on Dec 9, 2019 13:18:50 GMT -6
I kinda figured early on that JC would get the year...see also, "Stan gives his golden boys every opportunity to succeed even past their Use-by date." I only hope that if the 'hawks don't do anything this year, Stan goes as well. He should--hell, he should've been gone after 2018. unpopular opinion here and I will definitely be wrong, but to me, it doesn't seem like SB is going to get fired even after this season. There just doesn't seem to be any urgency or panic (so far this season). JC did change his coaching style, but I think that's more on JC and he's the one who will get the axe. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Dec 9, 2019 13:24:04 GMT -6
I kinda figured early on that JC would get the year...see also, "Stan gives his golden boys every opportunity to succeed even past their Use-by date." I only hope that if the 'hawks don't do anything this year, Stan goes as well. He should--hell, he should've been gone after 2018. unpopular opinion here and I will definitely be wrong, but to me, it doesn't seem like SB is going to get fired even after this season. There just doesn't seem to be any urgency or panic (so far this season). JC did change his coaching style, but I think that's more on JC and he's the one who will get the axe. So let's see, they bring over a young coach from Europe having success there to be the coach of their minor league team so that they can fire their old coach and bring up the new coach so they can fire him? Is that about right? Now why in the hell would ANY other coach want to come into this dysfunctional organization then? What once was the proto-type organization has become a joke. |
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Post by squishy24 on Dec 9, 2019 13:39:51 GMT -6
unpopular opinion here and I will definitely be wrong, but to me, it doesn't seem like SB is going to get fired even after this season. There just doesn't seem to be any urgency or panic (so far this season). JC did change his coaching style, but I think that's more on JC and he's the one who will get the axe. So let's see, they bring over a young coach from Europe having success there to be the coach of their minor league team so that they can fire their old coach and bring up the new coach so they can fire him? Is that about right? Now why in the hell would ANY other coach want to come into this dysfunctional organization then? What once was the proto-type organization has become a joke. ^ when I said "that's more on JC" I meant that, SB might deflect the blame and say that it was more a coaching decision/indecision. I'm not putting all the fault on JC and defending SB. just want to make that clear.
As for your question, I don't know lol what I said is just my speculation and has no bearing on facts, just a weird feeling. does SB look like he's about to lose his job?
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Post by T-man2010 on Dec 9, 2019 13:52:31 GMT -6
So let's see, they bring over a young coach from Europe having success there to be the coach of their minor league team so that they can fire their old coach and bring up the new coach so they can fire him? Is that about right? Now why in the hell would ANY other coach want to come into this dysfunctional organization then? What once was the proto-type organization has become a joke. ^ when I said "that's more on JC" I meant that, SB might deflect the blame and say that it was more a coaching decision/indecision. I'm not putting all the fault on JC and defending SB. just want to make that clear.
As for your question, I don't know lol what I said is just my speculation and has no bearing on facts, just a weird feeling. does SB look like he's about to lose his job?
Of course SB won't get fired, he should turn over the GM duties to someone else and retain his Exec. V.P. of his dad's and McDonts luggage carry duties. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Dec 9, 2019 15:40:00 GMT -6
I kinda figured early on that JC would get the year...see also, "Stan gives his golden boys every opportunity to succeed even past their Use-by date." I only hope that if the 'hawks don't do anything this year, Stan goes as well. He should--hell, he should've been gone after 2018. unpopular opinion here and I will definitely be wrong, but to me, it doesn't seem like SB is going to get fired even after this season. There just doesn't seem to be any urgency or panic (so far this season). JC did change his coaching style, but I think that's more on JC and he's the one who will get the axe. Who knows on that. I think it should come down to overall perception of the 'hawks come April. After all, they aren't the "lovable loser" Cubs and the $bill era is still fresh in fans' minds. Couple that with the mood last year (and I think the previous year as well) where 'hawk ticket reps were scrambling to get STH's to re-up, and I think it will just take a bad year this year with no attempt at a turn-around to break the 'hawk sellout streak. That might be enough to get Stan canned, and if not then the rot goes deeper and the fans need to start showing their displeasure with their pocketbooks. Again, who knows, but I think from a logical standpoint Stan's time to put up or shut up is now...and so far it hasn't been working. His coach isn't doing much. His players aside from Lehner are at best just *there*. The core feels disengaged and the team is playing less than the sum of it's parts. But I do agree that it's entirely possible the season is a failure and he's not fired, but I think if the season is a failure, it's a mistake to not let him go. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Dec 9, 2019 21:46:53 GMT -6
I kinda figured early on that JC would get the year...see also, "Stan gives his golden boys every opportunity to succeed even past their Use-by date." I only hope that if the 'hawks don't do anything this year, Stan goes as well. He should--hell, he should've been gone after 2018. My question will be then who are they going to get to replace them? Another retread GM that had been fired several times before? Retread coaches? Look who's out there now, Babcock, Peters, Crawford the guy the Devils just fired. Maybe then Laviolette will be available soon if the Preds keep losing they will fire him. since JC was hired, 11 coaches (35% of all teams) have been replaced. not sure where i'm going with this, just throwing it out there. anyways....i guess what i mean to say is there are a lot of warm bodies out there with coaching experience. OTH mentioned a few posts back of an edzo/savard combo. initially i didn't think savard was a good option but the more i think about it the more i like it. (with savard as an asst. coach) off the top of my head, we've had a pretty bad record with ex-players taking the H.C. job in the past, but that doesn't mean it couldn't work. the past is the past. |
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Post by doogiew on Dec 11, 2019 3:39:07 GMT -6
Is anyone else thinking it's time to start moving some parts? I mean really making the playoffs with this team just doesn't seem realistic. Sugarcoat whatever you want call me a traitor. The expensive pieces of this team should be moved for good young talent at the trade deadline. Start clean next season. I don't have a real answer to anything I just know that what is in place isn't working and Stan has himself to close to the cap ceiling.
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Post by LordKOTL on Dec 11, 2019 10:50:30 GMT -6
Is anyone else thinking it's time to start moving some parts? I mean really making the playoffs with this team just doesn't seem realistic. Sugarcoat whatever you want call me a traitor. The expensive pieces of this team should be moved for good young talent at the trade deadline. Start clean next season. I don't have a real answer to anything I just know that what is in place isn't working and Stan has himself to close to the cap ceiling. As mentioned before...realistically who can we move? We got a ton of NMC's and a lot of the other players who don't have them happen to be Also-rans. I think the only potential movable piece may be Crawford--and even he has a L-NTC/NMC--and that by virtue of an expiring contract. Thing is...other teams may be eyeing Lehner more. The rest? Long term contracts, Full NMC's, and possible negative cap value--to the point where it might more more sense just to keep them (i.e. Toews/Keith), They're basically *the* franchise guy to build around (Kane), or the value is so negatives we'd have to pay dearly to move them (Seabs). It takes 2 to tango. Sure, we'd all love to trade out Seabrook...but who would *want* him at that price? What would they send back? How much of his cap would we have to eat--and how does that help long-term? |
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Post by T-man2010 on Dec 11, 2019 11:10:30 GMT -6
Is anyone else thinking it's time to start moving some parts? I mean really making the playoffs with this team just doesn't seem realistic. Sugarcoat whatever you want call me a traitor. The expensive pieces of this team should be moved for good young talent at the trade deadline. Start clean next season. I don't have a real answer to anything I just know that what is in place isn't working and Stan has himself to close to the cap ceiling. As mentioned before...realistically who can we move? We got a ton of NMC's and a lot of the other players who don't have them happen to be Also-rans. I think the only potential movable piece may be Crawford--and even he has a L-NTC/NMC--and that by virtue of an expiring contract. Thing is...other teams may be eyeing Lehner more. The rest? Long term contracts, Full NMC's, and possible negative cap value--to the point where it might more more sense just to keep them (i.e. Toews/Keith), They're basically *the* franchise guy to build around (Kane), or the value is so negatives we'd have to pay dearly to move them (Seabs). It takes 2 to tango. Sure, we'd all love to trade out Seabrook...but who would *want* him at that price? What would they send back? How much of his cap would we have to eat--and how does that help long-term? Forget about moving the "core" guys. Only movable pieces are Saad, Carpentar, Smith, Maatta, Shaw, Murphy and Kampf. And right now every teams knows this so the return will be very minimal at best. |
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Post by rinkrat21 on Dec 11, 2019 12:32:35 GMT -6
Is anyone else thinking it's time to start moving some parts? I mean really making the playoffs with this team just doesn't seem realistic. Sugarcoat whatever you want call me a traitor. The expensive pieces of this team should be moved for good young talent at the trade deadline. Start clean next season. I don't have a real answer to anything I just know that what is in place isn't working and Stan has himself to close to the cap ceiling. Yes. And the first part moved should be SB. |
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Post by squishy24 on Dec 11, 2019 13:25:36 GMT -6
Is anyone else thinking it's time to start moving some parts? I mean really making the playoffs with this team just doesn't seem realistic. Sugarcoat whatever you want call me a traitor. The expensive pieces of this team should be moved for good young talent at the trade deadline. Start clean next season. I don't have a real answer to anything I just know that what is in place isn't working and Stan has himself to close to the cap ceiling. As mentioned before...realistically who can we move? We got a ton of NMC's and a lot of the other players who don't have them happen to be Also-rans. I think the only potential movable piece may be Crawford--and even he has a L-NTC/NMC--and that by virtue of an expiring contract. Thing is...other teams may be eyeing Lehner more. The rest? Long term contracts, Full NMC's, and possible negative cap value--to the point where it might more more sense just to keep them (i.e. Toews/Keith), They're basically *the* franchise guy to build around (Kane), or the value is so negatives we'd have to pay dearly to move them (Seabs). It takes 2 to tango. Sure, we'd all love to trade out Seabrook...but who would *want* him at that price? What would they send back? How much of his cap would we have to eat--and how does that help long-term?^ ask Tallon/Q if they want Seabs, then ask for Pysyk+ for Seabs with the Hawks retaining half salary. Pysyk is a UFA after this season. End result will be 3.4 caphit for Seabs contract instead of the full 6.8.
CC/Lehner could go to Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto
you might as well keep 19, 88, 2. 88 for sure shouldn't be traded. 2 and 19, you will get lower returns (because of the contract length) and lesser value than just keeping them with the team
there are rumors that Montreal asked about Gus, not sure which side or what is holding this up. throw in kokok if that's what it takes
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Post by nighbor on Dec 12, 2019 1:09:14 GMT -6
As mentioned before...realistically who can we move? We got a ton of NMC's and a lot of the other players who don't have them happen to be Also-rans. I think the only potential movable piece may be Crawford--and even he has a L-NTC/NMC--and that by virtue of an expiring contract. Thing is...other teams may be eyeing Lehner more. The rest? Long term contracts, Full NMC's, and possible negative cap value--to the point where it might more more sense just to keep them (i.e. Toews/Keith), They're basically *the* franchise guy to build around (Kane), or the value is so negatives we'd have to pay dearly to move them (Seabs). It takes 2 to tango. Sure, we'd all love to trade out Seabrook...but who would *want* him at that price? What would they send back? How much of his cap would we have to eat--and how does that help long-term?^ ask Tallon/Q if they want Seabs, then ask for Pysyk+ for Seabs with the Hawks retaining half salary. Pysyk is a UFA after this season. End result will be 3.4 caphit for Seabs contract instead of the full 6.8.
CC/Lehner could go to Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto
you might as well keep 19, 88, 2. 88 for sure shouldn't be traded. 2 and 19, you will get lower returns (because of the contract length) and lesser value than just keeping them with the team
there are rumors that Montreal asked about Gus, not sure which side or what is holding this up. throw in kokok if that's what it takes
Toews will fetch as much as Kane. Contract lengths and amounts are the same and the captain adds leadership plus he can play in all situations while Kane is offense only. T-bone on a better team may be the second or third line center playing against inferior centers which should up his faceoff % and his point totals. Toews proved last season that with a quality winger first DeBrincat and then Kane that he can still put up numbers without holding them back. Kubalik improved the first line. I would leave him there for another two games to make sure it wasn't a fluke. If it was-then change Kubalik with Kane. After trading for Strome he and Debrincat and Toews and Kane were on separate lines and we finished strong. Too much Debrincat and Kane is not a good thing first because there is only one puck and secondly their cross ice pass is their go to move both during line play and the PP. It has become predictable and easily defended. Whatever happened to using the whole ice surface and making the goalie continually travel every inch of his crease. |
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Post by vadarx on Dec 12, 2019 1:26:38 GMT -6
Toews will fetch as much as Kane. LOL.... yeah, no. Toews might bring back a little, a draft pick and a mid level prospect but also a bad contract likely too, to make up for some of the money we would be trading another team. that's it, though. Kane actually would likely return quite a bit more. as much as people would hate it, IF we are settled on a full rebuild and trading core members away, 88 should be the first one traded. |
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Post by rinkrat21 on Dec 12, 2019 2:38:44 GMT -6
IF we are settled into full rebuild mode, the first thing that needs to happen is a new front office. No way in hell can SB blow this thing up and build it back properly. No way I want him in charge or trading any of the core away for prospects and draft picks cause he will just screw it up.
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Post by Tater on Dec 12, 2019 2:54:50 GMT -6
IF we are settled into full rebuild mode, the first thing that needs to happen is a new front office. No way in hell can SB blow this thing up and build it back properly. No way I want him in charge or trading any of the core away for prospects and draft picks cause he will just screw it up.
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Post by BigT on Dec 12, 2019 7:10:44 GMT -6
Just like Vancouver. I think letting go of our core 4 is not smart. The kept the twins and Edler around for the whole thing until the twins hung em up. I think what needs to stop is stand awful cheap fill. He clearly does not know decent talent and is a horrible judge of talent. If this thing is to be rebuilt properly, Stan has failed terribly in his last 5 years when he had to actually be a GM. The previous 5 years, he had a few tinkerings to do, and Q told him what/who he wanted and it worked. As far as being an actual GM, Stan is in way over his head. People love him around because they get their way with him. Like McD and Kelley. They love to be able to have control and say over him, they do what they want and laugh cuz Stan takes the brunt of it. Now, if Rocky is serious about this. It’s best to get a real hockey guy in here and let him rebuild it. But the overall dysfunctional style the Hawks have had for decades needs to stop. The same damn things that happened in the 90s are happening now. And that falls on ownership!!!
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Post by acesandeights on Dec 12, 2019 10:14:45 GMT -6
^ when I said "that's more on JC" I meant that, SB might deflect the blame and say that it was more a coaching decision/indecision. I'm not putting all the fault on JC and defending SB. just want to make that clear.
As for your question, I don't know lol what I said is just my speculation and has no bearing on facts, just a weird feeling. does SB look like he's about to lose his job?
Of course SB won't get fired, he should turn over the GM duties to someone else and retain his Exec. V.P. of his dad's and McDonts luggage carry duties. This type scenario seems more reasonable than Stan abruptly being shown the door. I'm not trying to defend Stan but I think he does get accused of some things he's probably not totally guilty of. I feel safe in saying the trades/moves that fans may not like aren't strictly Stan acting on his own with no input from anyone else. Did Stan decide on his own to trade Joki for Nylander and then later inform everyone else of what he did? Or did everyone else try to talk Stan out of the trade but he wouldn't listen and made it anyway? Others such as the asst. GM, pro scouts and player personnel people all get involved in trade discussions, FA signings etc. and I'm guessing that most have to be in agreement for something to be pursued. However, that's the nature of sports; the buck stops with the GM so he's the one that will catch all the flak. How many fans complain about how they need a new Director of Player Personnel or a new asst. GM?  Supposing Stan did move upstairs and another GM brought in; who do you bring in? A recycled veteran? Someone with scouting and personnel exp. but little GM exp.? Who a team brings in is an important decision. Look at the Bears when they brought in Phil Emery as GM in 2012; his drafting was poor and their record got worse each year of his three years. |
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Post by hsbob on Dec 12, 2019 10:25:20 GMT -6
Toews will fetch as much as Kane. LOL.... yeah, no. Toews might bring back a little, a draft pick and a mid level prospect but also a bad contract likely too, to make up for some of the money we would be trading another team. that's it, though. Kane actually would likely return quite a bit more. as much as people would hate it, IF we are settled on a full rebuild and trading core members away, 88 should be the first one traded. I'm startin' to agree with those who say winning with the 33M+ wrapped up in 2,7,19 and 88 is a long shot at best and when I consider the ability of the FO ......I'm dam sure of it so what then? Would the 33.3M those four are now paid be spent better than the aprox. 50M the rest of the team is now paid? Kane only has three left,I agree with the possibility of a very good return with no $$$ coming back......what then? Toews only has three left too and I also agree with little return or maybe some $$$ back,maybe the Jets send 23yro Ehlers back @6mx5 after this year...….he's a stellar regular season player and we know the team's insatiable appetite for under-sized Euro forwards. Would replacing Toews be a tall order......depends who you ask I guess. Keith's 5.5M for three more could be manageable for a team that's close and should be a wash as far as assets coming or going back if healthy. How much do you improve the position for the 5.5M that becomes available? Seabs is the 'bad medicine' deal here but it's really the only one so does the team buy him out if his play is so unacceptable or just eat 3M or so for the next four years? Will they need the space if they're rebuilding after clearing the other contracts? If the team does this,do they also shed the 8.6M paid to Maata and de Haan? The 11M paid to CC and Lehner? The 6M paid to Saad or the 3.8M paid to Murphy......what then? Pay Zach Smith 3.25M next year? Is current management capable of replacing these players through the draft or free agency? Do this and the fan base would have to accept the hockey equivalent of a 'nuclear winter' with little on the horizon other than a few decent defensive prospects IMO. |
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Post by hsbob on Dec 12, 2019 10:36:16 GMT -6
Of course SB won't get fired, he should turn over the GM duties to someone else and retain his Exec. V.P. of his dad's and McDonts luggage carry duties. This type scenario seems more reasonable than Stan abruptly being shown the door. I'm not trying to defend Stan but I think he does get accused of some things he's probably not totally guilty of. I feel safe in saying the trades/moves that fans may not like aren't strictly Stan acting on his own with no input from anyone else. Did Stan decide on his own to trade Joki for Nylander and then later inform everyone else of what he did? Or did everyone else try to talk Stan out of the trade but he wouldn't listen and made it anyway? Others such as the asst. GM, pro scouts and player personnel people all get involved in trade discussions, FA signings etc. and I'm guessing that most have to be in agreement for something to be pursued. However, that's the nature of sports; the buck stops with the GM so he's the one that will catch all the flak. How many fans complain about how they need a new Director of Player Personnel or a new asst. GM? Supposing Stan did move upstairs and another GM brought in; who do you bring in? A recycled veteran? Someone with scouting and personnel exp. but little GM exp.? Who a team brings in is an important decision. Look at the Bears when they brought in Phil Emery as GM in 2012; his drafting was poor and their record got worse each year of his three years. I think we'd both agree that SB has final say on any trade and since he's been the GM for ten years,I think it's safe to assume he has 'his' people around him that he wants around him. If it's an overall organizational failure,then it's only the 'chickens coming home to roost' due to not having a real hockey man over SB and we don't. As I said in another thread,if someone else convinced SB to trade a 19yro D-man who made the team and who he drafted himself in the 1st round......what does that say about SB? There was no cap issue involved so what was the hurry? |
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Post by rinkrat21 on Dec 12, 2019 13:04:21 GMT -6
This type scenario seems more reasonable than Stan abruptly being shown the door. I'm not trying to defend Stan but I think he does get accused of some things he's probably not totally guilty of. I feel safe in saying the trades/moves that fans may not like aren't strictly Stan acting on his own with no input from anyone else. Did Stan decide on his own to trade Joki for Nylander and then later inform everyone else of what he did? Or did everyone else try to talk Stan out of the trade but he wouldn't listen and made it anyway? Others such as the asst. GM, pro scouts and player personnel people all get involved in trade discussions, FA signings etc. and I'm guessing that most have to be in agreement for something to be pursued. However, that's the nature of sports; the buck stops with the GM so he's the one that will catch all the flak. How many fans complain about how they need a new Director of Player Personnel or a new asst. GM? Supposing Stan did move upstairs and another GM brought in; who do you bring in? A recycled veteran? Someone with scouting and personnel exp. but little GM exp.? Who a team brings in is an important decision. Look at the Bears when they brought in Phil Emery as GM in 2012; his drafting was poor and their record got worse each year of his three years. I think we'd both agree that SB has final say on any trade and since he's been the GM for ten years,I think it's safe to assume he has 'his' people around him that he wants around him. If it's an overall organizational failure,then it's only the 'chickens coming home to roost' due to not having a real hockey man over SB and we don't. As I said in another thread,if someone else convinced SB to trade a 19yro D-man who made the team and who he drafted himself in the 1st round......what does that say about SB? There was no cap issue involved so what was the hurry? Exactly. Sure some of this might be the fault of people around SB, but those people were most likely hand picked by SB. Just like JC was. Doesnt matter what % of the decision is being made by SB and what % of the decision is because of outside influence. At the end of the day, SB needs to go and so does everyone around him. A new GM needs to be brought in and given the freedom to bring in his own people and his own coach. If SB is simply kicked upstairs and a new guy is put in place but cant bring in his own staff or coach because SB and McDonut are still pulling the strings and the new GM is just a puppet, nothing will change. The front office needs a complete overhaul. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Dec 12, 2019 20:52:39 GMT -6
FIRE STAN NOW!!!
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Post by vadarx on Dec 12, 2019 23:47:07 GMT -6
LOL.... yeah, no. Toews might bring back a little, a draft pick and a mid level prospect but also a bad contract likely too, to make up for some of the money we would be trading another team. that's it, though. Kane actually would likely return quite a bit more. as much as people would hate it, IF we are settled on a full rebuild and trading core members away, 88 should be the first one traded. I'm startin' to agree with those who say winning with the 33M+ wrapped up in 2,7,19 and 88 is a long shot at best and when I consider the ability of the FO ......I'm dam sure of it so what then? Would the 33.3M those four are now paid be spent better than the aprox. 50M the rest of the team is now paid? Kane only has three left,I agree with the possibility of a very good return with no $$$ coming back......what then? Toews only has three left too and I also agree with little return or maybe some $$$ back,maybe the Jets send 23yro Ehlers back @6mx5 after this year...….he's a stellar regular season player and we know the team's insatiable appetite for under-sized Euro forwards. Would replacing Toews be a tall order......depends who you ask I guess. Keith's 5.5M for three more could be manageable for a team that's close and should be a wash as far as assets coming or going back if healthy. How much do you improve the position for the 5.5M that becomes available? Seabs is the 'bad medicine' deal here but it's really the only one so does the team buy him out if his play is so unacceptable or just eat 3M or so for the next four years? Will they need the space if they're rebuilding after clearing the other contracts? If the team does this,do they also shed the 8.6M paid to Maata and de Haan? The 11M paid to CC and Lehner? The 6M paid to Saad or the 3.8M paid to Murphy......what then? Pay Zach Smith 3.25M next year? Is current management capable of replacing these players through the draft or free agency? Do this and the fan base would have to accept the hockey equivalent of a 'nuclear winter' with little on the horizon other than a few decent defensive prospects IMO. personally Bob, I'd rather see someone else brought it and see how the team does with a different GM/coach combo before I go trading away the "core 4". as we've already agreed on, Toews being traded wouldn't fetch much, so I'd rather not trade him at all. Seabs, we are going to have give something with him to move him, so may as well keep him too. Keith would probably actually garner some interest at the deadline, but I would be hesitant to move him if only because of his recapture penalty. not to mention all 3 have a NMC, so they'd have to agree to a trade - which maybe one or two of them might agree to, but I can't see it tbh. honestly, I would rather all 3 be kept around to mentor the new guys as the rebuild happens.... Kaner, on the other hand, would garner A LOT of interest and would almost certainly bring back a substantial return. so, if a new crew is brought in to run the show and a complete rebuild is the order of the day, I would say 88 would be the guy to move. now, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't want to see any of them traded. and, with the current group in charge, I DEFINITELY do not want any of them traded cuz I don't trust those in charge now to get any sort of return that I would approve of. but, if there were a new regime in charge, I would be ok with moving a core guy or two IF we were committing to a full rebuild after they had already been given at least a good chunk of a season to examining how the team looked under a new coach with a new GM having assembled the team as well, at least partially. my 0.02 anyway |
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Post by hsbob on Dec 13, 2019 8:28:25 GMT -6
I'm startin' to agree with those who say winning with the 33M+ wrapped up in 2,7,19 and 88 is a long shot at best and when I consider the ability of the FO ......I'm dam sure of it so what then? Would the 33.3M those four are now paid be spent better than the aprox. 50M the rest of the team is now paid? Kane only has three left,I agree with the possibility of a very good return with no $$$ coming back......what then? Toews only has three left too and I also agree with little return or maybe some $$$ back,maybe the Jets send 23yro Ehlers back @6mx5 after this year...….he's a stellar regular season player and we know the team's insatiable appetite for under-sized Euro forwards. Would replacing Toews be a tall order......depends who you ask I guess. Keith's 5.5M for three more could be manageable for a team that's close and should be a wash as far as assets coming or going back if healthy. How much do you improve the position for the 5.5M that becomes available? Seabs is the 'bad medicine' deal here but it's really the only one so does the team buy him out if his play is so unacceptable or just eat 3M or so for the next four years? Will they need the space if they're rebuilding after clearing the other contracts? If the team does this,do they also shed the 8.6M paid to Maata and de Haan? The 11M paid to CC and Lehner? The 6M paid to Saad or the 3.8M paid to Murphy......what then? Pay Zach Smith 3.25M next year? Is current management capable of replacing these players through the draft or free agency? Do this and the fan base would have to accept the hockey equivalent of a 'nuclear winter' with little on the horizon other than a few decent defensive prospects IMO. personally Bob, I'd rather see someone else brought it and see how the team does with a different GM/coach combo before I go trading away the "core 4". as we've already agreed on, Toews being traded wouldn't fetch much, so I'd rather not trade him at all. Seabs, we are going to have give something with him to move him, so may as well keep him too. Keith would probably actually garner some interest at the deadline, but I would be hesitant to move him if only because of his recapture penalty. not to mention all 3 have a NMC, so they'd have to agree to a trade - which maybe one or two of them might agree to, but I can't see it tbh. honestly, I would rather all 3 be kept around to mentor the new guys as the rebuild happens.... Kaner, on the other hand, would garner A LOT of interest and would almost certainly bring back a substantial return. so, if a new crew is brought in to run the show and a complete rebuild is the order of the day, I would say 88 would be the guy to move. now, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't want to see any of them traded. and, with the current group in charge, I DEFINITELY do not want any of them traded cuz I don't trust those in charge now to get any sort of return that I would approve of. but, if there were a new regime in charge, I would be ok with moving a core guy or two IF we were committing to a full rebuild after they had already been given at least a good chunk of a season to examining how the team looked under a new coach with a new GM having assembled the team as well, at least partially. my 0.02 anyway Great points as usual v......so many issues at stake. There seems to be a paralysis over the Org right now and I'm sorry to say it starts at the top...….. Does the FO actually believe they're a PO team? The moves made this summer would appear so or are they only 'selling' the premise of being a PO team or are they sure WTF they are? Are they only pushing the fill the barn and sell the jerseys narrative...…...if so,it's unfair to the current HC as it was to the last one. JC might have been OK with a rebuilding team of kids and without the pressure on him from the playoff RUSE perpetrated by the higher ups IMO. Wait the three years for the contracts of 2,19 and 88 to expire because you don't need the space till then with a rebuild or trade everything that ain't nailed down(Seabs LOL)for as many picks as possible now? I AGREE...….depends who's making the decisions. I'll tell you one thing,keep Boq and Gil together as a pair the rest of the year,mistakes be dammed but I doubt we see this. Gus might have brought a 1st last summer like Hartman did but Gus only brings nausea nowadays and the Joker had another solid outing for the Sabres in their win against the Preds last night. Ralph Krueger has eight healthy D-men on his roster again and he sat Zach Bogosian(5M+) to keep Joker in there,Dahlin's back so that could get interesting. |
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Post by squishy24 on Dec 13, 2019 8:40:19 GMT -6
I'm startin' to agree with those who say winning with the 33M+ wrapped up in 2,7,19 and 88 is a long shot at best and when I consider the ability of the FO ......I'm dam sure of it so what then? Would the 33.3M those four are now paid be spent better than the aprox. 50M the rest of the team is now paid? Kane only has three left,I agree with the possibility of a very good return with no $$$ coming back......what then? Toews only has three left too and I also agree with little return or maybe some $$$ back,maybe the Jets send 23yro Ehlers back @6mx5 after this year...….he's a stellar regular season player and we know the team's insatiable appetite for under-sized Euro forwards. Would replacing Toews be a tall order......depends who you ask I guess. Keith's 5.5M for three more could be manageable for a team that's close and should be a wash as far as assets coming or going back if healthy. How much do you improve the position for the 5.5M that becomes available? Seabs is the 'bad medicine' deal here but it's really the only one so does the team buy him out if his play is so unacceptable or just eat 3M or so for the next four years? Will they need the space if they're rebuilding after clearing the other contracts? If the team does this,do they also shed the 8.6M paid to Maata and de Haan? The 11M paid to CC and Lehner? The 6M paid to Saad or the 3.8M paid to Murphy......what then? Pay Zach Smith 3.25M next year? Is current management capable of replacing these players through the draft or free agency? Do this and the fan base would have to accept the hockey equivalent of a 'nuclear winter' with little on the horizon other than a few decent defensive prospects IMO. personally Bob, I'd rather see someone else brought it and see how the team does with a different GM/coach combo before I go trading away the "core 4". as we've already agreed on, Toews being traded wouldn't fetch much, so I'd rather not trade him at all. Seabs, we are going to have give something with him to move him, so may as well keep him too. Keith would probably actually garner some interest at the deadline, but I would be hesitant to move him if only because of his recapture penalty. not to mention all 3 have a NMC, so they'd have to agree to a trade - which maybe one or two of them might agree to, but I can't see it tbh. honestly, I would rather all 3 be kept around to mentor the new guys as the rebuild happens.... Kaner, on the other hand, would garner A LOT of interest and would almost certainly bring back a substantial return. so, if a new crew is brought in to run the show and a complete rebuild is the order of the day, I would say 88 would be the guy to move. now, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't want to see any of them traded. and, with the current group in charge, I DEFINITELY do not want any of them traded cuz I don't trust those in charge now to get any sort of return that I would approve of. but, if there were a new regime in charge, I would be ok with moving a core guy or two IF we were committing to a full rebuild after they had already been given at least a good chunk of a season to examining how the team looked under a new coach with a new GM having assembled the team as well, at least partially. my 0.02 anyway they have to get 7pts in the next 4 games, starting tonight against Stlou. that's no loses, just to have a chance to get into the PO.
^ trading the 4 cores will be a task regardless of who the (new) GM will be, so I agree with you. Lets see what other coach can do. I'd like to see what Deboer can do with this current roster. Im sure he'll be happy to coach a team with great goaltending for a change
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Post by T-man2010 on Dec 13, 2019 9:59:53 GMT -6
The FO has to see that what once was the gold standard of an ORG., is now a rust bucket sinking to the bottom of the seas. I wonder if Diamond Bill was resurrected 2 years ago and is running the team again?  |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Dec 13, 2019 11:41:50 GMT -6
The FO has to see that what once was the gold standard of an ORG., is now a rust bucket sinking to the bottom of the seas. I wonder if Diamond Bill was resurrected 2 years ago and is running the team again? View AttachmentIt's pathetic how poorly this organization is ran and no one is doing anything about it. Huge fall from 2015. |
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Post by nighbor on Dec 13, 2019 16:03:55 GMT -6
The FO has to see that what once was the gold standard of an ORG., is now a rust bucket sinking to the bottom of the seas. I wonder if Diamond Bill was resurrected 2 years ago and is running the team again? It's pathetic how poorly this organization is ran and no one is doing anything about it. Huge fall from 2015. The teams driving force are older and unless you are getting younger you are not doing everything as well as you did in 2015 I know I can't. Even a great coach as Q could not slow down the aging process of his stars. |
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Post by rinkrat21 on Dec 13, 2019 18:00:23 GMT -6
It's pathetic how poorly this organization is ran and no one is doing anything about it. Huge fall from 2015. The teams driving force are older and unless you are getting younger you are not doing everything as well as you did in 2015 I know I can't. Even a great coach as Q could not slow down the aging process of his stars. True. Teams need to get younger as time goes by. So where is all the youth and depth who will be carrying this team moving forward and replacing the current aging stars? If we are supposed to be hanging our hats on Dach and Boqvist only, this is a sad state of affairs. And with all the injuries the team has, now would be the time for the next wave to be making their presence felt. Problem is, the next wave doesn’t exist. No Bueno. |
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