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Post by vadarx on Feb 13, 2024 16:33:53 GMT -6
On the Leaves front. Gotta give credit to Mathews. He’s a generational player and I hope he gets 70. He’s a pleasure to watch. He’s at 42 goals in 49 games. He very well could hit 70. If he goes on a heater, even 80 isn’t out at this point. What’s most impressive, is in this era, hitting 60 is just like hitting 80. Back in the 80s there was 3 lines, so your top players got a lot of ice time. Now players get 17-20. If Mathews hits 70, that’s pretty damn equal to 90. I hope OV doesn’t get the record and Mathews passes OV. Mathews is 26 and has 341 goals already. By the time he’s 32. He very well could be close to 700 or over that!!! bro, he is getting that record. it's best to just accept it now. as far as Matthews goes, I also hope he hits 60, as I have him in a few leagues, including the friends and family league (where the special lady thought she'd be cute picking one spot in front of me and took Bedard, allowing me to get Matthews. I've been rubbing it in all season). as long as he keeps that dumbass mustache shaved, he is ok with me. I can't abide that 'stache, though. it isn't as cool as he thinks it is...
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 13, 2024 18:49:31 GMT -6
What’s most impressive, is in this era, hitting 60 is just like hitting 80. Back in the 80s there was 3 lines, so your top players got a lot of ice time. Now players get 17-20. If Mathews hits 70, that’s pretty damn equal to 90. I hope OV doesn’t get the record and Mathews passes OV. Mathews is 26 and has 341 goals already. By the time he’s 32. He very well could be close to 700 or over that!!! i'm assuming you meant there were 3 lines that got most of the ice time because the 4th line was usually goons/fighters? that's more than likely. but you raised an interesting point about ice time in the 80s. before the 97/98 season, either time on ice wasn't tracked or it wasn't released...most likely both, so we have no way of knowing for sure. i didn't watch near as much hockey because obviously there wasn't that many games available to watch like today, but i was just a big of a fan as i am today. but tbh, i never got the sense that the top players of the day got much or any more ice time then the top guys do today. but i could be wrong about that too because back then it was likely something i never thought about much. anyways, here's the top goal scorers from the 80s and the top scorers of recent years. to me, the huge numbers scored in the 80s has more to do with opposing goaltending than it does with more ice time judging by the shots taken and the shooting percentage. so it'll be year / player / goals / shots per game / shooting % 79/80 gare 56g 3.6 sh/g 20.7% 80/81 bossy 68 4.0 21.6% 81/82 gretzky 92 4.6 24.9% 82/83 gretzky 71 4.4 20.4% 83/84 gretzky 87 4.4 26.7% 84/85 gretzky 73 4.4 20.6% 85/86 kurri 68 3.0 28.8% 86/87 gretzky 62 3.6 21.5% 87/88 lemieux 70 5.0 18.3% 88/89 lemieux 85 4.1 27.2% 89/90 hull 72 4.8 18.7% 12/13 ovi 32 4.6 14.6% 13/14 ovi 51 4.9 13.2% 14/15 ovi 53 4.9 13.4% 15/16 ovi 50 5.0 12.6% 16/17 crosby 44 3.4 17.3% 17/18 ovi 49 4.3 13.8% 18/19 ovi 51 4.2 15.1% 19/20 pastrnak 48 4.0 17.2% 20/21 matthews 41 4.3 18.5% 21/22 matthews 60 4.8 17.2% 22/23 mcdavid 64 4.3 18.2% seems to me if the shooters from yesteryear had that much more ice time, then their shots/game would be higher than this era's shooters but there doesn't seem to be that much difference. for shits and giggles...if you take the season when ovi had the most shots/game (5) and couple it with greztky's best season according to shooting percentage (26.7%) and ovi plays all 82 games...ovi scores 109 goals. (if he could do it with a wooden stick) some bullet points from this 4 year old article about if ovi played in the 80s. Caps fans like to daydream about how many goals Alex Ovechkin would have scored in the high-flying 1980s, when Wayne Gretzky set the single season mark with 92 goals and many teams had multiple 50-goal scorers in one season.
More importantly, it was a time when “goaltenders” – I use the word loosely because we’ve since learned that flailing like an inflatable tube man outside a car dealership wasn’t an optimized netminding strategy – gave up more goals per game than in any other decade.
While on a call with Gretzky a couple of months ago, Ovi mentioned the weight of the older stick that Gretzky had given him, acknowledging that it would’ve made it more difficult for him to shoot as hard as he does today. As we know, Ovi’s slap shot hits the net even though the goalies know it’s coming. The wooden stick would’ve taken at least a few MPH off of Ovi’s shot, giving the goalies perhaps an extra eighth of a second to slide over and make the save. Of course, a slower shot might have gone in anyway, as those goalies had Swiss cheese holes in them back then. But a heavier stick would’ve changed Ovi’s shot quite a bit.
Secondly, today’s rules have actually opened up the modern game compared to the 1980s. The two-line pass, the lack of a trapezoid, and 5-on-5 overtime hindered offensive output back then compared to today. The current rules have helped Ovi score more in this era, particularly in overtime, where he’s the all-time leading goal scorer. capitalsoutsider.com/2020/05/26/if-alex-ovechkin-played-in-the-1980s/
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Post by BigT on Feb 13, 2024 20:41:49 GMT -6
I’m pretty sure back in the 80s they only had 3 lines. Here’s the Oilers roster from 84/85. Sure there’s a bunch of guys with a couple handfuls of games. But if you look at the roster. They had 18 regulars. And I believe they carried a few extra guys (usually dmen). I think the rule was a total of 18 guys on the bench. In the 90s, they expanded the rosters with a deal to settle a lockout. More union members. When I’m not burnt out, I’ll look it up. Players had much more ice time back then!!! www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000411985.html
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 13, 2024 20:57:38 GMT -6
I’m pretty sure back in the 80s they only had 3 lines. Here’s the Oilers roster from 84/85. Sure there’s a bunch of guys with a couple handfuls of games. But if you look at the roster. They had 18 regulars. And I believe they carried a few extra guys (usually dmen). I think the rule was a total of 18 guys on the bench. In the 90s, they expanded the rosters with a deal to settle a lockout. More union members. When I’m not burnt out, I’ll look it up. Players had much more ice time back then!!! www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000411985.htmlnope. there's always been 4 forward lines for as long as i remember. here's a random boxscore from '85. www.nhl.com/gamecenter/chi-vs-phi/1985/10/20/1985020055/boxscorein the 1971/72 season, they set the players in uniform to 17 skaters and 2 goalies and it was increased to 18 and 2 goalies in 1982/83. records.nhl.com/history/historical-rule-changes
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 14, 2024 23:10:00 GMT -6
good news for vancouver. kessel's already in his normal mid-season shape. : )
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 14, 2024 23:15:34 GMT -6
useless stat o' the day.
man, the kings are sliding fast. december 9th they were sitting at 16-4-4, since then they've gone 8-12-6.
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Post by BigT on Feb 14, 2024 23:37:11 GMT -6
good news for vancouver. kessel's already in his normal mid-season shape. : ) I could honestly see him not going through with this. He looked much better on the couch. It’s hard to keep up with these young kids. I just played a father son game with my boy. I had to relinquish my self no back check and shifts were 25 seconds long. Hahahaha. It is what it is!!!
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Post by BigT on Feb 15, 2024 16:23:03 GMT -6
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Post by vadarx on Feb 15, 2024 16:30:00 GMT -6
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Post by BigT on Feb 15, 2024 16:45:45 GMT -6
Imagine having a job that you just suck at? And surviving for 11 years? Personally I would rebuild that team. They’ve got maybe half of it already. Kinda like what Van did. Take a year or two to step back, or punt for a year or two. Then let her ride. That team could be really good soon!!!
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Post by Nikos on Feb 15, 2024 17:07:45 GMT -6
Hard to believe he was there for 11 seasons and only advanced to second round.
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Post by Hockey is great on Feb 15, 2024 22:12:24 GMT -6
Looks like Jacob Markstrom to the devils is going to get done
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Post by jaty84 on Feb 16, 2024 0:53:12 GMT -6
Looks like Jacob Markstrom to the devils is going to get done And now I'm not sure whether it's good or not for my fantasy team. He was delivering for Calgary. Will see how it'll pan out in NJ. Whether it's the team defence or the goalies. Of course, if the trade gets through...
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Post by vadarx on Feb 16, 2024 0:57:08 GMT -6
Looks like Jacob Markstrom to the devils is going to get done And now I'm not sure whether it's good or not for my fantasy team. He was delivering for Calgary. Will see how it'll pan out in NJ. Whether it's the team defence or the goalies. Of course, if the trade gets through... that could be a huge deal for you!
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Post by Hockey is great on Feb 16, 2024 16:18:51 GMT -6
Looks like Jacob Markstrom to the devils is going to get done And now I'm not sure whether it's good or not for my fantasy team. He was delivering for Calgary. Will see how it'll pan out in NJ. Whether it's the team defence or the goalies. Of course, if the trade gets through... still hasn’t gone through. Not sure what’s going on there
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Post by squishy24 on Feb 16, 2024 17:54:44 GMT -6
And now I'm not sure whether it's good or not for my fantasy team. He was delivering for Calgary. Will see how it'll pan out in NJ. Whether it's the team defence or the goalies. Of course, if the trade gets through... still hasn’t gone through. Not sure what’s going on there Calgary not willing to do 50% retention on Markstrom’s caphit. NJ need to be very careful about taking on contracts, Luke Hughes and Nemec will new ones in a couple of years. Those Meier and Palat contract not working out so far. They will probably lose Toffoli in free agency this summer
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 17, 2024 17:12:59 GMT -6
i don't think kane's scored too many from this far out before. beauty of a shot.
this assist by kane i think we've all seen many similar before.
kane's goal was the eventual game winner, flames shutout 5-0.
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 18, 2024 21:23:44 GMT -6
from yesterday's action.
what a knob-job. (pun not intended)
44 seconds left in the game and trailing by 3.
5000$ fine. should be another 5000$ added on just for the blatant stupidity.
i hope and pray he's nowhere near any or all future team canada teams.
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Post by vadarx on Feb 18, 2024 21:29:26 GMT -6
from yesterday's action. what a knob-job. (pun not intended) 44 seconds left in the game and trailing by 3. 5000$ fine. should be another 5000$ added on just for the blatant stupidity. i hope and pray he's nowhere near any or all future team canada teams. it really pains me that that asshole won them a Cup... the ONLY good part about it is his boat anchor of a contract that they had to give him because they won has definitely not helped since they won it...
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 21, 2024 1:45:55 GMT -6
sad to say but it seems like either injury or illness is all that's in the way of ovi breaking gretzky's record.
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 21, 2024 6:59:04 GMT -6
we need lukas reichel to score one like this to get his engine going.
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Post by BigT on Feb 21, 2024 7:36:09 GMT -6
we need lukas reichel to score one like this to get his engine going. You may be right. Just like Byfield, I believe Reichel may need more time. It happens sometimes, and Quint is a perfect example of this!!!
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Post by vadarx on Feb 21, 2024 10:27:40 GMT -6
sad to say but it seems like either injury or illness is all that's in the way of ovi breaking gretzky's record. not a doubt in my mind.
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Post by hsbob on Feb 21, 2024 13:54:25 GMT -6
sad to say but it seems like either injury or illness is all that's in the way of ovi breaking gretzky's record. not a doubt in my mind. Stromer's clean FO win got him an apple on the play,his 2nd of the night to go along with his 21st goal.
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 22, 2024 1:00:55 GMT -6
I’m pretty sure back in the 80s they only had 3 lines. Here’s the Oilers roster from 84/85. Sure there’s a bunch of guys with a couple handfuls of games. But if you look at the roster. They had 18 regulars. And I believe they carried a few extra guys (usually dmen). I think the rule was a total of 18 guys on the bench. In the 90s, they expanded the rosters with a deal to settle a lockout. More union members. When I’m not burnt out, I’ll look it up. Players had much more ice time back then!!!this guy i follow on twitter recently posted that he "probably rewatches more old hockey than 99% of fans." so i asked him the question about ice time and to my surprise he was nice enough to respond. unfortunately it doesn't quite answer the question. sorry for the clunky reposts, but there's no way (that i know of) to post the entire convo we had in one post. anyways, we may never know for sure, but if the stars back then played more minutes/game than today's stars, i still think it wouldn't be by much. i'll keep looking.
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Post by BigT on Feb 22, 2024 6:21:26 GMT -6
I was looking and I also talked to a guy who played in the early 90s. Anyways, roster sizes back then were at 18 + 2 goalies not 23 like now. Typically they dressed all 18 as there was no salary cap. The 2 extra forwards were typically fighters and never seen much ice. They ran 9 forwards and 6 D. They carried 7 D at all games. So the way it sounded to me was, teams healthy scratched at least one guy on road games. Ran 10 forwards and 7 D. This fella on HF boards has the roster sizes here!!! forums.hfboards.com/threads/the-history-of-roster-sizes.1184009/
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 22, 2024 6:59:45 GMT -6
I was looking and I also talked to a guy who played in the early 90s. Anyways, roster sizes back then were at 18 + 2 goalies not 23 like now. Typically they dressed all 18 as there was no salary cap. The 2 extra forwards were typically fighters and never seen much ice. They ran 9 forwards and 6 D. They carried 7 D at all games. So the way it sounded to me was, teams healthy scratched at least one guy on road games. Ran 10 forwards and 7 D. This fella on HF boards has the roster sizes here!!! forums.hfboards.com/threads/the-history-of-roster-sizes.1184009/18 plus 2 goalies is like 6 defensemen and 12 forwards (4 lines) and 2 goalies. i asked the ladyboy down the street who does pedicures to check today's boxscore and she confirmed it. we had 12 forwards, 6 defensemen and 2 goalies sitting on the bench. edit: besides...players in the 80s would be barfing and suffering from nicotine withdrawl if they had to do more than 20 minutes a game. : )
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Post by BigT on Feb 22, 2024 7:10:54 GMT -6
I was looking and I also talked to a guy who played in the early 90s. Anyways, roster sizes back then were at 18 + 2 goalies not 23 like now. Typically they dressed all 18 as there was no salary cap. The 2 extra forwards were typically fighters and never seen much ice. They ran 9 forwards and 6 D. They carried 7 D at all games. So the way it sounded to me was, teams healthy scratched at least one guy on road games. Ran 10 forwards and 7 D. This fella on HF boards has the roster sizes here!!! forums.hfboards.com/threads/the-history-of-roster-sizes.1184009/18 plus 2 goalies is like 6 defensemen and 12 forwards (4 lines) and 2 goalies. i asked the ladyboy down the street who does pedicures to check today's boxscore and she confirmed it. we had 12 forwards, 6 defensemen and 2 goalies. edit: besides...players in the 80s would be barfing and suffering from nicotine withdrawl if they had to do more than 20 minutes a game. : ) However, if there was an injury, especially on the road, they don’t dress all of them. Not many teams do 6 D or ever really have. They’ve always carried the 7th. 6 D is 3 lines. They get tired. So they never had enough for a 4th line. Especially on the road. They’d rotate the last 2 forwards in and out. So they basically ran 3 lines and rarely played the leftover forwards. I I know they didn’t have the stats of today. But I remember reading somewhere that Gretz used to get 25-30 mins a night of ice time. Even at 5 mins more a game, gotta add that up over a year. That’s like an extra 20 games they’d play. Hence why they got so many points. Plus like you said, they’d be tired right out. And they were. That’s why you seen so many 10-8 games. No one back checked and the goalies were hung out to dry. Introduce the 23 man roster and a full 4th line, you get what you see today. More defensive hockey because the talent is watered down. Plus expansion. A lot of expansion in the last 30 years. The easiest way to end this is to just back and watch a game. Even for 1 period. You’ll see Semenko with 1 shift!!!
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Post by galaxytrash on Feb 22, 2024 7:46:45 GMT -6
18 plus 2 goalies is like 6 defensemen and 12 forwards (4 lines) and 2 goalies. i asked the ladyboy down the street who does pedicures to check today's boxscore and she confirmed it. we had 12 forwards, 6 defensemen and 2 goalies. edit: besides...players in the 80s would be barfing and suffering from nicotine withdrawl if they had to do more than 20 minutes a game. : ) However, if there was an injury, especially on the road, they don’t dress all of them. Not many teams do 6 D or ever really have. They’ve always carried the 7th. 6 D is 3 lines. They get tired. So they never had enough for a 4th line. Especially on the road. They’d rotate the last 2 forwards in and out. So they basically ran 3 lines and rarely played the leftover forwards. I I know they didn’t have the stats of today. But I remember reading somewhere that Gretz used to get 25-30 mins a night of ice time. Even at 5 mins more a game, gotta add that up over a year. That’s like an extra 20 games they’d play. Hence why they got so many points. Plus like you said, they’d be tired right out. And they were. That’s why you seen so many 10-8 games. No one back checked and the goalies were hung out to dry. Introduce the 23 man roster and a full 4th line, you get what you see today. More defensive hockey because the talent is watered down. Plus expansion. A lot of expansion in the last 30 years. The easiest way to end this is to just back and watch a game. Even for 1 period. You’ll see Semenko with 1 shift!!! 1982-83 Number of players in uniform set at 18 plus 2 goaltenders. records.nhl.com/history/historical-rule-changesthis site is a proper nhl site and like i quoted, from the 82/83 season....teams dressed 18 skaters and 2 goalies. that's a for sure. there's no wiggle room on that one. if a team didn't dress 20 players it was a very rare occasion. i can copy and paste 500 boxscores from that time and you can count for yourself. to your point, i did find this article. Alex Ovechkin has averaged an ice time of 21 minutes, and 22 seconds per game over his career. Wayne Gretzky averaged that amount in his last season in the NHL. Unfortunately the NHL began tracking ice time in 1997. So we won’t know exactly how much ice time Gretzky received on average from 1979-89. However, after some primary and secondary research, I am estimating that he received around 25 minutes of ice time per game over the first 800 games of his career.another sentence says this. In addition, star players used to receive more ice time back in the day.
but to my point it also mentioned this. Gretzky played his prime during an era where significantly more goals were being scored per game. One major reason was because goaltenders had smaller pads, which led to lower save percentages, and more goals per game. About 7.6 goals were scored per game in the Gretzky era. Contrastingly, approximately 5.5 goals are currently scored per game since Ovechkin entered the league. www.talkhockey.ca/estimating-alex-ovechkins-goals-in-wayne-gretzkys-era/so i'll give you the win here. the best players did in fact get more ice time it seems. but it wasn't because of less forwards on the ice...at least after the 82/83 season. and the extra scoring back in the day possibly had just as much to do with more net to shoot at as it did with more ice time.
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Post by BigT on Feb 22, 2024 7:59:39 GMT -6
All players. Tendys included too. All of them used training camp to get in shape. Then along came a Finnish kid who worked out constantly, put up ridiculous numbers right out of the gate. So every player started doing that. Selanne was the shift in the game we all see now. No one worked out all year like he did. Most players smoked and drank all off season. Especially the Quebecers!
I think OV is a decent guy. Seems very likeable. I just don’t care for players only playing for one reason. OV will play till he breaks the record. Which I think is shitty. He’ll more than likely retire right afterwards.
I know we can say the same about Kane. But If Kane breaks the record next year. He’s not retiring. He’s gonna play till he can’t. And he’s never ever had the knock on him about his care to win. OV played his whole career just looking to score goals, instead of winning. And when he finally did win, Trotz barely used him. OV was on the bench to clinch the Cup. But after that, more of the same from him!!!
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