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Post by vadarx on Jul 24, 2021 2:04:35 GMT -6
so, with the big addition onboard now, what's next? you have to assume after a move like this that they are set on going for it one more time... so what else needs to be done?
there are still six more rounds of the draft left, but no one we get there is likely to contribute in the next year or two, so let's save that for the draft thread. the next big thing is obviously free agency. our current cap space remaining is approximately 6 million bucks...
right now, the 'hawks have 22 signed for next year: 12 f, 7 d, 3 g. obviously one of those 'tenders are heading to Rockford next year, so let's say 21 signed players. we have only 2 UFAs and I'd say it is safe to say that Zach Smith isn't coming back, so the only player there to consider is Hinostroza. I like his effort, but unless he signs for as cheaply as he can, I'll pass. even then, I might still say nah, tbh.
on to the RFAs, of which we have 6. on d, we all know Z is the only one. if his price comes down, do we sign him? do we let him go to arbitration? do we tell him to beat it with Jones now in tow? I honestly don't really see how we afford him now unless he takes a pay cut and I doubt he goes for that. he seems like trade bait this weekend to me.
at forward, there are 5: Kampf, Suter, Gaudette, Hagel, and Nylander. I have to think that Bowman wants to keep all 5. the question is how much do we pay for them? how many can we sign to 2 way deals so we can stash them in Rockford? personally, I don't see any way they let Kampf go. he is the teacher's pet. hopefully he doesn't want more than a million per. anything more than that is too much if we want to build a contender. Gaudette and Suter almost surely will not sign 2 way deals at this stage of their career, so decisions need to be made there. I could see both being traded. Nylander, on the other hand, should absolutely be signed to a 2 way deal. if he won't, then he can sit out another season if he wants. he needs to be parked in Rockford to start the year, and considering his injury, he shouldn't have too much to say about that. which leaves Hagel, who apparently thinks he needs a big pay day now. he better get over that shit, cuz he hasn't earned one yet (as much as I like him) AND, again, we are obviously going for it and need all the money we can get to try and contend this coming season. so, another choice to be made...
now, we can exceed the cap by 10% (I believe) prior to opening night. so there is another 8 million. then there is the 10.7 million in LTIR we have in Seabs and Shaw... Bowman is going to have to decide when/ how he wants to use that soon. either we use it now or once the season begins, but we could use some in the summer and have a bit more to use in free agency.
which leaves us with trades. Seattle did us no favors by leaving us stick with DeHaan. at the same time, if we are going for it now, I have a hard time seeing being moved now, as we will need him for the second pairing and on the pk. he and Murphy also could be used at the deadline to acquire some picks at the deadline should things not go as planned. I think we either move one of them so we can sign Z or we just trade the rights to Zadorov. one of those 3 absolutely has to go...
finally, who do we go after now in free agency? we could really use another center (obviously). could guys like Mitchell and Kalynuk end up in Rockford and we add another vet on the backend? I could see it. should we add a vet in net as well? I could see that as well.
so much still to come this summer, but it appears it'll be a wild one for us 'hawks fans cuz apparently the rebuild is on hold and we are going all in once again!
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Post by nighbor on Jul 24, 2021 2:05:35 GMT -6
Stan was working in the front office before the foundation was poured (Crawford, Keith and Seabrook). I never claimed Stan did it all by himself. I said he played a part in team success. The people in power were well satisfied with his work and kept promoting him. No business including yours could afford to retain an employee as incompetent as you claim Stan was and stay in business. Stan negotiated the contracts of Keith and outnegotiated Pittsburg and Detroit to land Hossa plus supplied Q with the additional talent needed to win in 2013 and 2015. The team was relevant from 2009 when he became GM until the 2017 playoffs a run longer than most. I would say Stan did more than landscape. When I get down about losing I remind myself that I am not a Leaf fan and it gives me hope. We don't know how many cups we could have or would have won without Stan any more that know how many we could have or would have won if Savard had not been replaced by Q. I’m all for facts. But yours are just not true. Scam did not negotiate Hossa’s contract or pursue him. Tallon did. Tallon was “demoted”’on July 14/2009. He signed Hossa July 1/2009. Again. Trying to make Stan look great for doing what he’s always done. Nothing. His acquisitions were mediocre at best. Tallon said that the Hawks had a deep pipeline and we’re going to continue to build from within. Scam said he’d do the same. But he was too afraid to add another kid to the mix and a lot of kids just didn’t develop, and or went elsewhere. I guess you could blame Q again. Seems logical. Getting guys like Handzus etc hurt the core guys as they had to really pick up the slack for the incompetence those players provided. We’re talking about re-signing a guy who got 4 goals all year and is your second line center. His role was to be a scoring threat. He wasn’t that at all. Now that the team is poor and reflects his work a little better, he’s still doing the same things. This time he’s got no one to bail him out. He’s had high picks, he’s had cap space. What’s the excuses now? Excuses just blind you from the truth. Only a fool with a half handle of whiskey in their system could argue he’s done anything. Just like how you love to give Scam credit for things he clearly hasn’t done. Let’s reverse that. Barry Smith scouted and talked Panera into signing here. Scam literally just got the paper out of the printer. Marc Bergevin said that he scouted both Saad and Shaw and he took direct credit for Shaw. So take that away from Scam and what do ya got? He’s a fraud and he’s now finally getting called out for it. However, I’ve been his biggest fan all along, and I loved to call him out when he deserved it, and I loved to cheer for his move that panned out. But that move I’m still waiting for. Now he sure as hell sounds like he’s also a terrible human. Covering up horrible acts that happened on his watch. Just sickening that these owners are allowing Pulford 2.0 to happen. At least Pully didn’t allow sexual assault on his watch!!! Stan was in charge of all things CBA and contract negotiations since he was hired by Smith as his Special Assistant. I have never claimed Tallon had nothing to do with seeking or pursuing Hossa and the fact that Tallon signed Hossa on July 1/2009 does not mean that Tallon negotiated the contract. I believe in giving credit where credit is due. A pipeline does not last when you have to dip into it to provide your HC with the missing pieces to win championships. When it came to players Q trusted and played Q was picky. He preferred the mature players who were dependable and trustworthy. Q didn’t want to babysit therefore young kids were not in his plans. Luckily Toews and Kane played a year under Savard and therefore proven commodities. Handzus was the type of player Q appreciated and needed. Handzus made a crucial play at a crucial time to help win the cup. In 12 drafts his highest picks have been a 8th pick, a 3rd pick, 17th and a 12th pick and the jury is still out on them. I prefer Labatt’s Blue and White Rum so you must be the fool with a half handle of whiskey in their system because you have just described the greatest con in human history and you claim Stan has done nothing. I am going to take a line from another poster Playing Devil’s Advocate was he in charge. Barry Smith scouted and talked Panarin into signing here. Was he in charge? Scouts do not negotiate contracts and sign players. If Tallon get credit for signing Hossa then Stan gets credit for signing Panarin as they were both the official GM. Turn around is fair game. Marc Bergevin said that he scouted both Saad and Shaw and he took direct credit for Shaw. Was he the GM and was he in charge? The entire league including the Chicago Blackhawks before Stan was GM passed on Shaw in 2 consecutive drafts 14 rounds in total. In the fifth round of draft year #3 Stan drafted Shaw. He gets the credit for drafting Shaw the same way Tallon gets credit for drafting Toews and Kane Your fixation with Stan blinds you to the fact everything cannot be placed solely on him alone. This stain falls on the entire organization from Rocky on down including the entire coaching staff. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 24, 2021 2:06:33 GMT -6
^^
and there's your bathroom read for the morning. someone tell the 'hawks Verdi's replacement is ready.
edit: my post, not nighbor's, lol. or maybe both!
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Post by BigT on Jul 24, 2021 6:49:50 GMT -6
I think we all have to realize that the Hawks, probably not Scam. Have realized that the youth they have isn’t any good. To get good it’ll take quite some time. At least 2-3 more draft years.
This is called “chasing the dream”. Does it work? Probably not. If there’s a few more bottom 6 brought in to steady the ship, then maybe they win a playoff round. But I think JC will have to be fired at some point in this season. He only has this year and next on his deal. I think he was only placed here to coach the shitty team Scam placed before us all. If it works, great, if it doesn’t, he’ll be shot out of a cannon and they’ll get someone much better.
I’m sure all the scouts and coaches etc have told Scam that the team isn’t great and the head coach is shit. I wouldn’t doubt if JC is let go just after camp.
In the end. There was no rebuild. It was a lazy excuse. No rebuild of any sort takes the half hour Scam put in to it!!!
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Post by hsbob on Jul 24, 2021 7:09:51 GMT -6
dunno if anyone said it or not, but Jones has a full NMC too. shocker, I know... M-NTC of ten teams he won't go to according to CF. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 24, 2021 7:18:45 GMT -6
dunno if anyone said it or not, but Jones has a full NMC too. shocker, I know... M-NTC of ten teams he won't go to according to CF. that is for this coming season. he has a full NMC on his 8 year extension. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 24, 2021 7:33:21 GMT -6
I think we all have to realize that the Hawks, probably not Scam. Have realized that the youth they have isn’t any good. To get good it’ll take quite some time. At least 2-3 more draft years. This is called “chasing the dream”. Does it work? Probably not. If there’s a few more bottom 6 brought in to steady the ship, then maybe they win a playoff round. But I think JC will have to be fired at some point in this season. He only has this year and next on his deal. I think he was only placed here to coach the shitty team Scam placed before us all. If it works, great, if it doesn’t, he’ll be shot out of a cannon and they’ll get someone much better. I’m sure all the scouts and coaches etc have told Scam that the team isn’t great and the head coach is shit. I wouldn’t doubt if JC is let go just after camp. In the end. There was no rebuild. It was a lazy excuse. No rebuild of any sort takes the half hour Scam put in to it!!! The 'next Keith and Karlsson' and the 'embarrassment of riches' was what I heard about all the 1st round D-prospects and now..... Jokiharju......gone @20 for what? Nolander? Boqvist......gone @20 Beaudin and Mitchell fall further down the depth chart with every move made. Guys who couldn't start every game for their last teams have now passed the two 1st round picks and so has Kaylnuk and those two #1's ain't all that young any more either. These picks were supposed to be SB's saving grace.............they're anything but! All these first round D-men chosen and just a few years later sees the team losing MASSIVE assets and HUGE cap space for a #1......dam shane. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 24, 2021 7:36:04 GMT -6
M-NTC of ten teams he won't go to according to CF. that is for this coming season. he has a full NMC on his 8 year extension. MY LORD! They say the surest sign of of a nitwit is doing the same thing and expecting different results. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 24, 2021 8:43:39 GMT -6
definitely going to keep a close eye on this guy's career moving forward.
i really hope he can stay healthy so it can be honestly seen how he does in a different environment.
good luck A.B.
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Post by hsbob on Jul 24, 2021 8:48:03 GMT -6
For the record,I think Seth Jones is an excellent D-man and is easily the best D-man on the team but can anyone say we didn't pay up to the max in return and also up to the max in term,money and a full NMC on the re-do? The absolute max!
Does the flat cap start to rise and when?
What does D-Cat want for his next deal now?
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 24, 2021 8:57:16 GMT -6
definitely going to keep a close eye on this guy's career moving forward. i really hope he can stay healthy so it can be honestly seen how he does in a different environment. good luck A.B. He seems like a good kid but his concussions have made him really timid on the ice, I hope he stays healthy but I think he's had too many head injuries at such a young age. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 24, 2021 9:06:42 GMT -6
For the record,I think Seth Jones is an excellent D-man and is easily the best D-man on the team but can anyone say we didn't pay up to the max in return and also up to the max in term,money and a full NMC on the re-do? The absolute max! Does the flat cap start to rise and when? What does D-Cat want for his next deal now?Cats contract ends at the same time Toews and Kanes run out. Now we know that 1 or both won't return then. So the Cat will probably double what he gets now. Of course that will depend what the going rate will be for 40-50 goal scorer. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 24, 2021 9:24:54 GMT -6
For the record,I think Seth Jones is an excellent D-man and is easily the best D-man on the team but can anyone say we didn't pay up to the max in return and also up to the max in term,money and a full NMC on the re-do? The absolute max! Does the flat cap start to rise and when? What does D-Cat want for his next deal now?Cats contract ends at the same time Toews and Kanes run out. Now we know that 1 or both won't return then. So the Cat will probably double what he gets now. Of course that will depend what the going rate will be for 40-50 goal scorer. I agree but then we're back paying two guys 20 million bucks and I've been led to believe that's the reason the team sucks now. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 24, 2021 9:42:55 GMT -6
If the rebuild is over(that was quick)does the team acquire a vet goaltender or just watch Subban and Delia lose their net and swim around for half the starts again. No bigger Lankinen guy than me but is he ready to get a team to the next level?
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Post by gigecj on Jul 24, 2021 9:49:57 GMT -6
For the record,I think Seth Jones is an excellent D-man and is easily the best D-man on the team but can anyone say we didn't pay up to the max in return and also up to the max in term,money and a full NMC on the re-do? The absolute max! Does the flat cap start to rise and when? What does D-Cat want for his next deal now? That's the thing Bob. We paid dearly for Jones. If we're on the Cup Cusp, this is the move you make. It's vaguely like the Hossa signing in 2009 apart from the obvious fact that it was simply a free agent signing. My point is focusing more on going for the player who "puts you over the top and makes you an instant Cup Contender." When you put out that much coin as well as that much beyond the coin as we did with Jones, you are truly making such a statement IMHO. There are also the issues with what Seth Jones has accomplished thus far in his career. He hasn't really been a Norris Trophy D-man even thought he has the talent to be. There's a lot of dice rolling here and I'm not even going to get into the Win-Loss Trading Record of Stan Bowman. To be fair, I'm considering a W to also be "a trade that helps both sides." Still, it disappoints. This is a tough one! It really is. The fan in me is focusing on reeling in a player who many suggested should have been the overall #1 the year he was drafted, his size, speed, shot, etc. What else can I do? Quit being a fan? Of course, there's also that choice, but how many of us fans make that choice? I'm left with trying to make Seth Jones into the savior of my franchise. It's uncomfortable given all the reasons against it. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 24, 2021 10:11:03 GMT -6
For the record,I think Seth Jones is an excellent D-man and is easily the best D-man on the team but can anyone say we didn't pay up to the max in return and also up to the max in term,money and a full NMC on the re-do? The absolute max! Does the flat cap start to rise and when? What does D-Cat want for his next deal now? That's the thing Bob. We paid dearly for Jones. If we're on the Cup Cusp, this is the move you make. It's vaguely like the Hossa signing in 2009 apart from the obvious fact that it was simply a free agent signing. My point is focusing more on going for the player who "puts you over the top and makes you an instant Cup Contender." When you put out that much coin as well as that much beyond the coin as we did with Jones, you are truly making such a statement IMHO. There are also the issues with what Seth Jones has accomplished thus far in his career. He hasn't really been a Norris Trophy D-man even thought he has the talent to be. There's a lot of dice rolling here and I'm not even going to get into the Win-Loss Trading Record of Stan Bowman. To be fair, I'm considering a W to also be "a trade the helps both sides." Still, it disappoints. This is a tough one! It really is. The fan in me is focusing on reeling in a player who many suggested should have been the overall #1 the year he was drafted, his size, speed, shot, etc. What else can I do? Quit being a fan? Of course, there's also that choice, but how many of us fans make that choice? I'm left with trying to make Seth Jones into the savior of my franchise. It's uncomfortable given all the reasons against it. I have no issue with the quality of the player to be fair,four time all star,one tine 2nd team all star and plenty of awards as an armature too but can't we get the best of anyone ever? Reports are Jones would only negotiate with Chicago or Dallas and Dallas already has their big money D-men and nobody's trading for Jones without the assurance of a re-do.......shouldn't that give SB some leverage here? Is there any question that the assets given up were max as were the term and money on the re-do and what the hell......throw in a eight year full NMC for good measure. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 24, 2021 10:39:39 GMT -6
That's the thing Bob. We paid dearly for Jones. If we're on the Cup Cusp, this is the move you make. It's vaguely like the Hossa signing in 2009 apart from the obvious fact that it was simply a free agent signing. My point is focusing more on going for the player who "puts you over the top and makes you an instant Cup Contender." When you put out that much coin as well as that much beyond the coin as we did with Jones, you are truly making such a statement IMHO. There are also the issues with what Seth Jones has accomplished thus far in his career. He hasn't really been a Norris Trophy D-man even thought he has the talent to be. There's a lot of dice rolling here and I'm not even going to get into the Win-Loss Trading Record of Stan Bowman. To be fair, I'm considering a W to also be "a trade the helps both sides." Still, it disappoints. This is a tough one! It really is. The fan in me is focusing on reeling in a player who many suggested should have been the overall #1 the year he was drafted, his size, speed, shot, etc. What else can I do? Quit being a fan? Of course, there's also that choice, but how many of us fans make that choice? I'm left with trying to make Seth Jones into the savior of my franchise. It's uncomfortable given all the reasons against it. I have no issue with the quality of the player to be fair,four time all star,one tine 2nd team all star and plenty of awards as an armature too but can't we get the best of anyone ever? Reports are Jones would only negotiate with Chicago or Dallas and Dallas already has their big money D-men and nobody's trading for Jones without the assurance of a re-do.......shouldn't that give SB some leverage here? Is there any question that the assets given up were max as were the term and money on the re-do and what the hell......throw in a eight year full NMC for good measure. I’m stunned by the max value given out too. Max all around. Stupid moves lead to a more stupid future. The next GM is gonna have a hell of a time fixing this shit!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 24, 2021 10:52:14 GMT -6
I have no issue with the quality of the player to be fair,four time all star,one tine 2nd team all star and plenty of awards as an armature too but can't we get the best of anyone ever? Reports are Jones would only negotiate with Chicago or Dallas and Dallas already has their big money D-men and nobody's trading for Jones without the assurance of a re-do.......shouldn't that give SB some leverage here? Is there any question that the assets given up were max as were the term and money on the re-do and what the hell......throw in a eight year full NMC for good measure. I’m stunned by the max value given out too. Max all around. Stupid moves lead to a more stupid future. The next GM is gonna have a hell of a time fixing this shit!!! Apparently the FO sees no more value in Boqvist than you or I did but it wasn't you or I who spent a number eight over all on this fragil,frail player.......for God's sake you GOTTA make a #8 over all stick......NO? We'll now get a chance to see #1's Beaudin and Mitchell languish and devalue also with more D-men coming in........who TF is running this shit show and how is this acceptable? These four young,#1 D-men were supposed to be our future......how is this acceptable? |
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Post by BigT on Jul 24, 2021 11:06:32 GMT -6
I’m stunned by the max value given out too. Max all around. Stupid moves lead to a more stupid future. The next GM is gonna have a hell of a time fixing this shit!!! Apparently the FO sees no more value in Boqvist than you or I did but it wasn't you or I who spent a number eight over all on this fragil,frail player.......for God's sake you GOTTA make a #8 over all stick......NO? We'll now get a chance to see #1's Beaudin and Mitchell languish and devalue also with more D-men coming in........who TF is running this shit show and how is this acceptable? These four young,#1 D-men were supposed to be our future......how is this acceptable? It’s not acceptable. It hasn’t been for a long time. Plain and simple. Everyone bought in to some scenario where Scam was a drafting guru and all his picks were future number 1-2 dmen. That’s clearly not the case. Getting a 27 year old dman is great to keep something going. A trade like that would a been good a few years back like you and I clamoured for. But he’s tried this rebuild on the fly thing a few times and it hasn’t worked, and it won’t work. Square peg round hole. Once again, Scam is not a hockey guy. He doesn’t understand team sports. He’s never been an athletic person, he’s never really played the game, and he just doesn’t understand how the game goes. I remember when Scam was the GM of team USA and he was sitting in the stands at the Worlds watching a game. And he said something so stupid. He said something like. I can’t believe how different the international ice is. The game is much different on here than I thought. Like, that is stupid and he was allowed to build a team that he just didn’t know anything about. Just stupid. Like him!!! |
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 24, 2021 11:25:08 GMT -6
well, now that Jones is at 9.5, i wonder what Hamilton will ask and Sakic must be cursing Bowman right now I don't think Sakic is or should be interested in Hamilton. Don't have any inside info neither saw any rumours, but IMHO they already have offensive Norris caliber defenseman in Makar. What would Hamilton offer them that they already miss? Galaxytrash and vadarx clarified this. ….. and Makar signed for 9m AAV, this trade and extension looks bad every second |
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Post by BigT on Jul 24, 2021 14:25:05 GMT -6
I don't think Sakic is or should be interested in Hamilton. Don't have any inside info neither saw any rumours, but IMHO they already have offensive Norris caliber defenseman in Makar. What would Hamilton offer them that they already miss? Galaxytrash and vadarx clarified this. ….. and Makar signed for 9m AAV, this trade and extension looks bad every second I agree. It may have been better to offer sheet Makar at 10.5. See if that would work. I would’ve asked for them to take Boqvist and the Hawks 1st pick this year for Byram. If they said no, I’d do what Burke did. I’d tell them I’m gonna throw a massive offer sheet at Makar. I’d bet they make that trade!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 24, 2021 17:00:12 GMT -6
For the record,I think Seth Jones is an excellent D-man and is easily the best D-man on the team but can anyone say we didn't pay up to the max in return and also up to the max in term,money and a full NMC on the re-do? The absolute max! Does the flat cap start to rise and when? What does D-Cat want for his next deal now?Cats contract ends at the same time Toews and Kanes run out. Now we know that 1 or both won't return then. So the Cat will probably double what he gets now. Of course that will depend what the going rate will be for 40-50 goal scorer. who says they won't be back? I feel pretty confident that Kane isn't going anywhere. Toews may be retired by then or he may come back this fall and everything with go smoothly and he will want to keep playing as well. I think Bowman is banking on both taking a pay cut at the very least. if either wants to stay in Chicago and try and win again, they'll absolutely have to do just that. regardless, D🐈 is going to need a raise if he keeps scoring like he has. Kane probably won't take a ton less than he is making now if he is still playing at the same or close to the same level. Toews is the obvious candidate to take a big pay cut to pay for the cat's raise, so guess we will see what happens there. o, and also Kubalik and Dach are both up next summer... guess it was nice being out of cap hell for a week or two... |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 24, 2021 17:41:10 GMT -6
I'm gonna go with 33 for his new number (guessing). pass me some of that icy hot. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 24, 2021 18:06:00 GMT -6
I'm gonna go with 33 for his new number (guessing). pass me some of that icy hot. ha! well done, sir! |
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Post by mikeveisor on Jul 26, 2021 12:27:19 GMT -6
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Post by Tater on Jul 26, 2021 12:32:01 GMT -6
What is Hagel's status now? |
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Post by BigT on Jul 26, 2021 13:49:06 GMT -6
It just said that he and the others had to receive one by today. Never mentioned whether or not they did or didn’t get one. I’d have to think they’ve already got one, unless someone is setting Scambo up for a solid usurping!!! |
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Post by mikeveisor on Jul 26, 2021 14:58:06 GMT -6
It just said that he and the others had to receive one by today. Never mentioned whether or not they did or didn’t get one. I’d have to think they’ve already got one, unless someone is setting Scambo up for a solid usurping!!! Here's hoping that the QOs have just not been announced. This would not be a good way to keep a job intact to make this a once-a-decade thing. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 26, 2021 15:34:09 GMT -6
Hawks signed Gaudette to a 1yr deal and gave Hagel, Zadorov, and Nylander qualifying offers. Suter and Kampf didn't get a QO.
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Post by tincup on Jul 26, 2021 15:35:22 GMT -6
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