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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 28, 2021 19:03:51 GMT -6
T I dont have a problem with these 2 spending the whole year in Rockford getting top min and learning. I would rather have that happen next year with everything getting back to normal. I absolutely see what you’re saying. But these kids aren’t even getting a fair chance to make the team this year after doing pretty well last year. Now they’ve been given up on. Gotta feel for them. Mitchell was told they’re rebuilding and he’d get a shot. Scambo passed him along as the next great thing, like Makar. Maybe he could be, but he’s not gonna get a chance now. I think it’d be best to just trade the lot of them. Give them a shot. With the brothers Jones here, McCabe, Murph, Stillman and DeHaan. There’s just no room for them to break in over the next couple of years. Give em a shot elsewhere!!! If you look at the roster, Murph and DeHaan's contracts are up Mitchel and beaudin need a solid full year in the AHL and can get their best shot next season. I would have said the same for Boqvist, instead of being rushed in at 18/19 yr olds. But we know they will be up a lot all season when DeHaan and/or Murphy get hurt. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 28, 2021 19:42:20 GMT -6
I absolutely see what you’re saying. But these kids aren’t even getting a fair chance to make the team this year after doing pretty well last year. Now they’ve been given up on. Gotta feel for them. Mitchell was told they’re rebuilding and he’d get a shot. Scambo passed him along as the next great thing, like Makar. Maybe he could be, but he’s not gonna get a chance now. I think it’d be best to just trade the lot of them. Give them a shot. With the brothers Jones here, McCabe, Murph, Stillman and DeHaan. There’s just no room for them to break in over the next couple of years. Give em a shot elsewhere!!! If you look at the roster, Murph and DeHaan's contracts are up Mitchel and beaudin need a solid full year in the AHL and can get their best shot next season. I would have said the same for Boqvist, instead of being rushed in at 18/19 yr olds. But we know they will be up a lot all season when DeHaan and/or Murphy get hurt. I’m not against it. I just think Scambo is all in now. If this roster won’t cut it, he’s definitely not turning to youth next year. He’ll spend more, the money he saves from DeHaan and Murphy, he’s a spending nowadays!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 28, 2021 19:56:40 GMT -6
read an article today in which Bowman said, basically, that the 'hawks have no one signed but a couple players after the 22-23 season and that at that time they'll have a clean slate and will be able to go in any direction they choose to. this is why he brought in Jones, he will be one of the core of the team going forward. (paraphrasing here)
so, I'd say they are all in the next 2 years and then it'll either be reload or rebuild time...
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Post by nighbor on Jul 28, 2021 21:37:19 GMT -6
T I dont have a problem with these 2 spending the whole year in Rockford getting top min and learning. I would rather have that happen next year with everything getting back to normal. I absolutely see what you’re saying. But these kids aren’t even getting a fair chance to make the team this year after doing pretty well last year. Now they’ve been given up on. Gotta feel for them. Mitchell was told they’re rebuilding and he’d get a shot. Scambo passed him along as the next great thing, like Makar. Maybe he could be, but he’s not gonna get a chance now. I think it’d be best to just trade the lot of them. Give them a shot. With the brothers Jones here, McCabe, Murph, Stillman and DeHaan. There’s just no room for them to break in over the next couple of years. Give em a shot elsewhere!!! Do you want to keep the same poor d as last season or do you want to improve it. Beaudin and Mitchell will still be attending the main camp and will be given the same chance as everyone else. You forgot Wyatt Kalynuk a rookie who played 21 games and had 4g and 5a. |
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Post by Tater on Jul 28, 2021 22:40:56 GMT -6
Best of luck to Kampf and Suter. Both seem like good guys. Any bets that Kampf get a hat trick in his first game against the Hawks?  |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 29, 2021 0:02:00 GMT -6
Best of luck to Kampf and Suter. Both seem like good guys. Any bets that Kampf get a hat trick in his first game against the Hawks? shocked they didn't bring back Kampf, but I guess they finally realized his lack of offense negated his defensive abilities. 500k isn't much of a raise... |
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Post by jaty84 on Jul 29, 2021 0:24:20 GMT -6
I've never heard of McCabe so I wish him best of luck and health over here in CHI. Hopefully he be a solid top 4 Dman. From GM's perspective, I don't get this signing. 2 offseasons ago he signed or traded for DeHaan and Maaatttaaa. Both around 4M for several years. Neither of these players has proven themselves in comparison what was expected out of them. Luckily, Maaatttaaa had solid POs against Edmonton and we were able to ship him to LA, if I recall correctly. With DeHaan we are stuck for one more season. And when we can finally proceed and give space to younger players, who are screaming for icetime, we bring in McCabe for 4 years.
Sure, nowhere is written that he'll stay over here for 4 years. Either his play will be good enough to stay, but still hinder introduction of younger and maybe more promising players into the lineup (a.k.a. Carlsson who had to leave) or he'll have to be traded and it'll cost us some pick or salary retention in the future.
Let's hope for the best.
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Post by hsbob on Jul 29, 2021 7:39:03 GMT -6
So the Hawks sign McCabe from Buffalo. 4 for @4 per year. Nothing to write home about him. Looks to have been somewhat injured the last couple seasons. Solid defensive D-man. But have never played 82 games because of injuries and healthy scratches. And coming off a torn ACL, MCL and meniscus last year and "Dumboman" does a 4 for 4? I don't like it...
Some one prove me wrong...
If they wanted a defensive defenseman(who knew),why not keep and develop your own healthy,young pick Lucas Carlsson.......that's HIS game. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 29, 2021 7:48:28 GMT -6
welp... judging by all that has transpired, it seems to me that ole Stan watched the playoffs and was big into following his boy Marc's team in Montreal... looks like he figures: add a #1 d and then a #1 goaltender. then just add in grinders that will make it hard to play against and rely on a handful of guys to doing the scoring. grind your way to the Final. let's see how that goes. When a team is successful by 'grinding',it's because everybody's grinding.........just a handful grinders won't work if half the team couldn't grind coffee. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 29, 2021 7:49:27 GMT -6
I absolutely see what you’re saying. But these kids aren’t even getting a fair chance to make the team this year after doing pretty well last year. Now they’ve been given up on. Gotta feel for them. Mitchell was told they’re rebuilding and he’d get a shot. Scambo passed him along as the next great thing, like Makar. Maybe he could be, but he’s not gonna get a chance now. I think it’d be best to just trade the lot of them. Give them a shot. With the brothers Jones here, McCabe, Murph, Stillman and DeHaan. There’s just no room for them to break in over the next couple of years. Give em a shot elsewhere!!! Do you want to keep the same poor d as last season or do you want to improve it. Beaudin and Mitchell will still be attending the main camp and will be given the same chance as everyone else. You forgot Wyatt Kalynuk a rookie who played 21 games and had 4g and 5a. I’d at least like to give them a shot. Those 3 d should be the 5/6/7 dmen. McCabe was horrible at best last year, there’s a good chance one of those “rookies” would do better. Nothings guaranteed, I fully understand that. But I doubt they’ll get a serious look in 2022/23. I was all for a rebuild. But now the actual full rebuild will take decades. They had a chance here to tank for 2-3 years and load right back up. But they even failed at that. What was the purpose to the letter? You know why that letter means nothing now? Season tickets are way down, they had to get excitement back up for the team. It’s poorly run at this point. From ownership all the way to the coach!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 29, 2021 7:57:03 GMT -6
I agree. He’s just not even an NHL player in my eyes. My other concern is what about Beaudin, Mitchell and Kalynuk now? They’re all AHL fill. I’m not liking the future here. These kids will all want to be dealt soon due to no room here. They were all good they’re the future, now it’s the total opposite!!! It's impossible to build a team by constantly re-shuffling players like that. Is Khaira that much better than Entwistle? I don't think so. Is Johnson really that much over an improvement of Hino? Not for the money that we pay him. Bingo! Last year shoulda been a year to get a good look at Entwistle and it shoulda been a year to properly assess Beaudin and Mitchell too. As it stands,we know little more about these three young players than we did last summer at this point and that's another in a long line of mistakes. How does a team that respects and appreciates the effort and enthusiasm game in....game out of a guy like Hinostroza not sign him for 1M he took up in Buffalo. The kid bleeds Black and Red but who really gives a shit about stuff like this in the FO? Watch Hagel go too. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 29, 2021 8:02:18 GMT -6
That’s actually a solid point. About Johnson and Hino. Is Johnson really worth it for 3 more at 5 million? Not sure here either!!! that Johnson trade was all about getting rid of the Seabrook deal so as jot to have to dink around with LTIR every off-seaeon. still seems like we could've gotten a first for helping Tampa out, though... The thing is,Tampa DOES know how to 'dink around' with LTIR every offseason(LOL) and they'll do it again with Seabs deal. Just get a verbal agreement with a player to sign him day two of the season when the space becomes available. Didn't the Hawks do this with a vet player themselves a few years ago. I guess you can't make a bunch a splashes of FA day that way though......more like belly flops. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 29, 2021 8:07:25 GMT -6
It's impossible to build a team by constantly re-shuffling players like that. Is Khaira that much better than Entwistle? I don't think so. Is Johnson really that much over an improvement of Hino? Not for the money that we pay him. Bingo! Last year shoulda been a year to get a good look at Entwistle and it shoulda been a year to properly assess Beaudin and Mitchell too. As it stands,we know little more about these three young players than we did last summer at this point and that's another in a long line of mistakes. How does a team that respects and appreciates the effort and enthusiasm game in....game out of a guy like Hinostroza not sign him for 1M he took up in Buffalo. The kid bleeds Black and Red but who really gives a shit about stuff like this in the FO? Watch Hagel go too. I'd much rather have Hino over Johnson and Jewjar shouldn't have been signed when Hardman and Entwistle showed they belong. I know there's probably more to come but I'm not liking what Stan is doing. Yes McCabe is bigger than Carlsson but I'd rather have Lucas for a lot less. But I guess McCabe grew up playing with Seth and Murphy in the US development program plus he trains in Chicago in the summer and he trains with Murphy, so there's some familiarity there. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 29, 2021 8:26:20 GMT -6
One thing that massively concerns me. Is the amount of turnover. It’s hard for a team to gel when there’s that many new faces. I’m not sure it works out as planned. I feel the Hawks can make the playoffs, but not sure the Hawks go very far. And every year that passes is one more that you don’t get back. The Duo of 19/88 is coming to an end sooner than later. So I hope Scambo is in this for the next few years. Cuz it may not work out after year one. And probably doesn’t. So he needs to hold on to this creation of his longer than he has in the past and make knee jerk reactions and put out another gawd damn letter!!! Bingo. But even as-is I question if this is a playoff team. There is a lot that still has to go right for the 'hawks simply because there is no depth, and part of that will be predicated on Fleury (or whoever is in net) posting a good year. In back we have a #1D, a Middle pair, and a Bottom pair. Beyond that it's a couple of sophomores who may or may not pan out and the second coming of Danny Richmond. They split things up and the established guys will have to babysit. Lump them together and we have exposable pairings. Same up front, we got a 1st line, a partial 2nd, a partial 4th, and a shitty 3rd line. We split u the 1st and they'll have to babysit. We load them up and it might be easy to shut them down or exploit the weak lines. Plus as you mentioned chemistry might be an issue with so much turnover. I think for a playoff shot as-constructed the 'hawks might need .920+ goaltending. Fleury certainly can do this...but he also had some down years in his career. where he didn't top .910. Assuming he suits up for us, a lot will hinge on his performance. I get it if we can't afford Zadorov, but I don't like it. It essentially means that for the story thus far, Panarin was dealt for a Calgary 3rd. That was the same price for Bollig. It may not be an apples-to-apples comparison but that stings especially when you compare it to Karpo for Hjammer, getting the most out of him and then flipping it for Murph, who's at least a serviceable bottom pair. One could put it that way. One could also put it that because we could not afford to sign Panarin we got a third for Zadorov. Except we could afford Panarin for the 2 years of his 6M deal. He was making no more than Saad. Even though I got the Saad-for-Panarin deal at the time, in retrospect Saad didn't work out as well as we hoped and if we held onto Panarin and dealt him at the TDL before his 6M deal was up the 'hawks could have made out like bandits. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 29, 2021 8:51:44 GMT -6
read an article today in which Bowman said, basically, that the 'hawks have no one signed but a couple players after the 22-23 season and that at that time they'll have a clean slate and will be able to go in any direction they choose to. this is why he brought in Jones, he will be one of the core of the team going forward. (paraphrasing here) so, I'd say they are all in the next 2 years and then it'll either be reload or rebuild time... How do you keep an idiot in suspense? I'll tell ya in two years!LOL! I thought the team had a direction last summer and they stated so and I kinda prepared myself for a few tough seasons and the loss of Kane and/or Toews. I'm not really sure what to prepare for now but the team should be a bit more competitive so I'll go with that.......a bit more competitive seems to be what the FO is going with. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 29, 2021 8:59:23 GMT -6
Do you want to keep the same poor d as last season or do you want to improve it. Beaudin and Mitchell will still be attending the main camp and will be given the same chance as everyone else. You forgot Wyatt Kalynuk a rookie who played 21 games and had 4g and 5a. I’d at least like to give them a shot. Those 3 d should be the 5/6/7 dmen. McCabe was horrible at best last year, there’s a good chance one of those “rookies” would do better. Nothings guaranteed, I fully understand that. But I doubt they’ll get a serious look in 2022/23. I was all for a rebuild. But now the actual full rebuild will take decades. They had a chance here to tank for 2-3 years and load right back up. But they even failed at that. What was the purpose to the letter? You know why that letter means nothing now? Season tickets are way down, they had to get excitement back up for the team. It’s poorly run at this point. From ownership all the way to the coach!!! They saw a 'STINKO' year coming and the letter was just cover and it worked. I'm not saying going back to Rockford is the worst thing for Beaudin and Mitchell even though both will be 22 when the season starts,same for Entwistle.......what I am saying is the team knows little more about these youngsters than they did last summer and that's unfortunate. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 29, 2021 9:01:59 GMT -6
One thing that massively concerns me. Is the amount of turnover. It’s hard for a team to gel when there’s that many new faces. I’m not sure it works out as planned. I feel the Hawks can make the playoffs, but not sure the Hawks go very far. And every year that passes is one more that you don’t get back. The Duo of 19/88 is coming to an end sooner than later. So I hope Scambo is in this for the next few years. Cuz it may not work out after year one. And probably doesn’t. So he needs to hold on to this creation of his longer than he has in the past and make knee jerk reactions and put out another gawd damn letter!!! Bingo. But even as-is I question if this is a playoff team. There is a lot that still has to go right for the 'hawks simply because there is no depth, and part of that will be predicated on Fleury (or whoever is in net) posting a good year. In back we have a #1D, a Middle pair, and a Bottom pair. Beyond that it's a couple of sophomores who may or may not pan out and the second coming of Danny Richmond. They split things up and the established guys will have to babysit. Lump them together and we have exposable pairings. Same up front, we got a 1st line, a partial 2nd, a partial 4th, and a shitty 3rd line. We split u the 1st and they'll have to babysit. We load them up and it might be easy to shut them down or exploit the weak lines. Plus as you mentioned chemistry might be an issue with so much turnover. I think for a playoff shot as-constructed the 'hawks might need .920+ goaltending. Fleury certainly can do this...but he also had some down years in his career. where he didn't top .910. Assuming he suits up for us, a lot will hinge on his performance. One could put it that way. One could also put it that because we could not afford to sign Panarin we got a third for Zadorov. Except we could afford Panarin for the 2 years of his 6M deal. He was making no more than Saad. Even though I got the Saad-for-Panarin deal at the time, in retrospect Saad didn't work out as well as we hoped and if we held onto Panarin and dealt him at the TDL before his 6M deal was up the 'hawks could have made out like bandits. Good post. I fully agree with your assessment on the lines. As far as Panera went. He publicly stated he would of taken less money to remain with the Hawks. He wanted to be here. My main concern was, why didn’t Scambo go and get a solid young center like Pierre Luc Dubois instead? I’m sure he could’ve gotten a solid young player instead. Saad just wasn’t on the same plane as Panera. I was all for trading him. I really was, but the return has to be impressive for a top 10 scorer in the league. Especially on a cap friendly deal and only 25/26 at the time. Need to get better than that. Also the constant downgrading on trade is getting annoying and downright worrisome. To trade Panera for Saad is bad, then Saad for Zadorov is much worse. Then to trade Zadorov for a 3rd rounder is just plain depressing. That can’t happen ever again!!! |
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Post by BigT on Jul 29, 2021 9:04:01 GMT -6
I’d at least like to give them a shot. Those 3 d should be the 5/6/7 dmen. McCabe was horrible at best last year, there’s a good chance one of those “rookies” would do better. Nothings guaranteed, I fully understand that. But I doubt they’ll get a serious look in 2022/23. I was all for a rebuild. But now the actual full rebuild will take decades. They had a chance here to tank for 2-3 years and load right back up. But they even failed at that. What was the purpose to the letter? You know why that letter means nothing now? Season tickets are way down, they had to get excitement back up for the team. It’s poorly run at this point. From ownership all the way to the coach!!! They saw a 'STINKO' year coming and the letter was just cover and it worked. I'm not saying going back to Rockford is the worst thing for Beaudin and Mitchell even though both will be 22 when the season starts,same for Entwistle.......what I am saying is the team knows little more about these youngsters than they did last summer and that's unfortunate. I agree. Plus they’ve done nothing but draft more defensemen. So the pipeline may lead to outta town for them….. again!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 29, 2021 9:41:32 GMT -6
They saw a 'STINKO' year coming and the letter was just cover and it worked. I'm not saying going back to Rockford is the worst thing for Beaudin and Mitchell even though both will be 22 when the season starts,same for Entwistle.......what I am saying is the team knows little more about these youngsters than they did last summer and that's unfortunate. I agree. Plus they’ve done nothing but draft more defensemen. So the pipeline may lead to outta town for them….. again!!! Don't look now but Florida re-signed Lucas Carlsson and I doubt they have their AHL club in mind. He might get a decent shot with Yandle and Stralman gone and don't forget.....Q had a good look at him in his first two prospect camps. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 29, 2021 9:54:31 GMT -6
Bingo. But even as-is I question if this is a playoff team. There is a lot that still has to go right for the 'hawks simply because there is no depth, and part of that will be predicated on Fleury (or whoever is in net) posting a good year. In back we have a #1D, a Middle pair, and a Bottom pair. Beyond that it's a couple of sophomores who may or may not pan out and the second coming of Danny Richmond. They split things up and the established guys will have to babysit. Lump them together and we have exposable pairings. Same up front, we got a 1st line, a partial 2nd, a partial 4th, and a shitty 3rd line. We split u the 1st and they'll have to babysit. We load them up and it might be easy to shut them down or exploit the weak lines. Plus as you mentioned chemistry might be an issue with so much turnover. I think for a playoff shot as-constructed the 'hawks might need .920+ goaltending. Fleury certainly can do this...but he also had some down years in his career. where he didn't top .910. Assuming he suits up for us, a lot will hinge on his performance. Except we could afford Panarin for the 2 years of his 6M deal. He was making no more than Saad. Even though I got the Saad-for-Panarin deal at the time, in retrospect Saad didn't work out as well as we hoped and if we held onto Panarin and dealt him at the TDL before his 6M deal was up the 'hawks could have made out like bandits. Good post. I fully agree with your assessment on the lines. As far as Panera went. He publicly stated he would of taken less money to remain with the Hawks. He wanted to be here. My main concern was, why didn’t Scambo go and get a solid young center like Pierre Luc Dubois instead? I’m sure he could’ve gotten a solid young player instead. Saad just wasn’t on the same plane as Panera. I was all for trading him. I really was, but the return has to be impressive for a top 10 scorer in the league. Especially on a cap friendly deal and only 25/26 at the time. Need to get better than that. Also the constant downgrading on trade is getting annoying and downright worrisome. To trade Panera for Saad is bad, then Saad for Zadorov is much worse. Then to trade Zadorov for a 3rd rounder is just plain depressing. That can’t happen ever again!!! Exactly. I got the Saad deal and was on board...even though I thought keeping Panarin would have been viable as well. Still, I think one of the crux's of the Saad deal was that he would help sparkplug Toews...which didn't happen (at least until 2019). Plus, Saad didn't look defensively as the Mini-Hossa we all through he was (Debrincat looks more like a Mini-Hossa than Saad's 2nd go). But, I try to keep the "in retrospect" in my mind. But I don't expect every trade to be a win. That being said I don't mind moving Zadorov out. He hits, but his defense is worse than Murph's (who would be a 5-at-best on our cup winning teams) and he fights like Adam Burish--not well. If he wanted a payday it probably shouldn't be with us. Getting a 3rd helps but unlike the Karpo/Hjammer/Murph trade line, we didn't get to exploit some of Panarin's best years before we made a downgrade. You're right--the losing on trades can't continue. At least we could say that we we got some of Seabrook's absolute best before we moved him for Johnson, so if there is a downgrade it's understandable. Same thing with Keith. But I really think some of Stan's misses are going to haunt the 'hawks especially this coming season and next. In my opinion, if Stan is truly going for it, we have to hold him to it. Barring something like MAF retiring, I think if the roster is as-constructed for this coming season and he's going for it, the 'hawks have to be "Conference finals or you're fired". |
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Post by BigT on Jul 29, 2021 10:37:45 GMT -6
Good post. I fully agree with your assessment on the lines. As far as Panera went. He publicly stated he would of taken less money to remain with the Hawks. He wanted to be here. My main concern was, why didn’t Scambo go and get a solid young center like Pierre Luc Dubois instead? I’m sure he could’ve gotten a solid young player instead. Saad just wasn’t on the same plane as Panera. I was all for trading him. I really was, but the return has to be impressive for a top 10 scorer in the league. Especially on a cap friendly deal and only 25/26 at the time. Need to get better than that. Also the constant downgrading on trade is getting annoying and downright worrisome. To trade Panera for Saad is bad, then Saad for Zadorov is much worse. Then to trade Zadorov for a 3rd rounder is just plain depressing. That can’t happen ever again!!! Exactly. I got the Saad deal and was on board...even though I thought keeping Panarin would have been viable as well. Still, I think one of the crux's of the Saad deal was that he would help sparkplug Toews...which didn't happen (at least until 2019). Plus, Saad didn't look defensively as the Mini-Hossa we all through he was (Debrincat looks more like a Mini-Hossa than Saad's 2nd go). But, I try to keep the "in retrospect" in my mind. But I don't expect every trade to be a win. That being said I don't mind moving Zadorov out. He hits, but his defense is worse than Murph's (who would be a 5-at-best on our cup winning teams) and he fights like Adam Burish--not well. If he wanted a payday it probably shouldn't be with us. Getting a 3rd helps but unlike the Karpo/Hjammer/Murph trade line, we didn't get to exploit some of Panarin's best years before we made a downgrade. You're right--the losing on trades can't continue. At least we could say that we we got some of Seabrook's absolute best before we moved him for Johnson, so if there is a downgrade it's understandable. Same thing with Keith. But I really think some of Stan's misses are going to haunt the 'hawks especially this coming season and next. In my opinion, if Stan is truly going for it, we have to hold him to it. Barring something like MAF retiring, I think if the roster is as-constructed for this coming season and he's going for it, the 'hawks have to be "Conference finals or you're fired". With the way things are shaking up, you could be right. Conference finals or bust. Colorado may have just gotten much much weaker. Dallas ain’t any better. St Loo got worse…… again. Nashville probably hasn’t gotten any better. Winterpeg got much better. So the Hawks really have a shot here to maybe crack the top 3 or 4 in the conference. But I don’t think the Hawks should abandon ship if this year isn’t as planned. It’s tough with basically a whole new room. But they’ve got a window here, I’m not sold on it, but we’ll see!!! |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 29, 2021 11:48:18 GMT -6
Exactly. I got the Saad deal and was on board...even though I thought keeping Panarin would have been viable as well. Still, I think one of the crux's of the Saad deal was that he would help sparkplug Toews...which didn't happen (at least until 2019). Plus, Saad didn't look defensively as the Mini-Hossa we all through he was (Debrincat looks more like a Mini-Hossa than Saad's 2nd go). But, I try to keep the "in retrospect" in my mind. But I don't expect every trade to be a win. That being said I don't mind moving Zadorov out. He hits, but his defense is worse than Murph's (who would be a 5-at-best on our cup winning teams) and he fights like Adam Burish--not well. If he wanted a payday it probably shouldn't be with us. Getting a 3rd helps but unlike the Karpo/Hjammer/Murph trade line, we didn't get to exploit some of Panarin's best years before we made a downgrade. You're right--the losing on trades can't continue. At least we could say that we we got some of Seabrook's absolute best before we moved him for Johnson, so if there is a downgrade it's understandable. Same thing with Keith. But I really think some of Stan's misses are going to haunt the 'hawks especially this coming season and next. In my opinion, if Stan is truly going for it, we have to hold him to it. Barring something like MAF retiring, I think if the roster is as-constructed for this coming season and he's going for it, the 'hawks have to be "Conference finals or you're fired". With the way things are shaking up, you could be right. Conference finals or bust. Colorado may have just gotten much much weaker. Dallas ain’t any better. St Loo got worse…… again. Nashville probably hasn’t gotten any better. Winterpeg got much better. So the Hawks really have a shot here to maybe crack the top 3 or 4 in the conference. But I don’t think the Hawks should abandon ship if this year isn’t as planned. It’s tough with basically a whole new room. But they’ve got a window here, I’m not sold on it, but we’ll see!!! With the signings and what not the 'hawks seem to have gone from "Development" to "Win Now" with an emphasis on this year and this year alone. 4M extra committed to the cap next year for Jones' extension. No real possibility of MaF and likely Lanks sees less icetime this year. Koob may not be able to be re-signed. Dach may not be able to be re-signed. Murph may end up going (even though he's not Hjammer, he's still arguably our 2nd best defenseman and is NHL calibre). Next year might have to see more shake-ups by proxy, which ergo means that if they are going for it, they are loaded for this season. If that is the case, and we got our Flower, I think it needs to be Conference Final or bust for Stan. |
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Post by nighbor on Jul 29, 2021 14:36:55 GMT -6
Bingo. But even as-is I question if this is a playoff team. There is a lot that still has to go right for the 'hawks simply because there is no depth, and part of that will be predicated on Fleury (or whoever is in net) posting a good year. In back we have a #1D, a Middle pair, and a Bottom pair. Beyond that it's a couple of sophomores who may or may not pan out and the second coming of Danny Richmond. They split things up and the established guys will have to babysit. Lump them together and we have exposable pairings. Same up front, we got a 1st line, a partial 2nd, a partial 4th, and a shitty 3rd line. We split u the 1st and they'll have to babysit. We load them up and it might be easy to shut them down or exploit the weak lines. Plus as you mentioned chemistry might be an issue with so much turnover. I think for a playoff shot as-constructed the 'hawks might need .920+ goaltending. Fleury certainly can do this...but he also had some down years in his career. where he didn't top .910. Assuming he suits up for us, a lot will hinge on his performance. Except we could afford Panarin for the 2 years of his 6M deal. He was making no more than Saad. Even though I got the Saad-for-Panarin deal at the time, in retrospect Saad didn't work out as well as we hoped and if we held onto Panarin and dealt him at the TDL before his 6M deal was up the 'hawks could have made out like bandits. Good post. I fully agree with your assessment on the lines. As far as Panera went. He publicly stated he would of taken less money to remain with the Hawks. He wanted to be here. My main concern was, why didn’t Scambo go and get a solid young center like Pierre Luc Dubois instead? I’m sure he could’ve gotten a solid young player instead. Saad just wasn’t on the same plane as Panera. I was all for trading him. I really was, but the return has to be impressive for a top 10 scorer in the league. Especially on a cap friendly deal and only 25/26 at the time. Need to get better than that. Also the constant downgrading on trade is getting annoying and downright worrisome. To trade Panera for Saad is bad, then Saad for Zadorov is much worse. Then to trade Zadorov for a 3rd rounder is just plain depressing. That can’t happen ever again!!! Wanting to remain is commendable but I could not imagine a discount of more than 10-15% and that would have still been 9.350M We would have had 31M tied up in 3 players which was more than we or any team could afford. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 29, 2021 14:41:28 GMT -6
With the way things are shaking up, you could be right. Conference finals or bust. Colorado may have just gotten much much weaker. Dallas ain’t any better. St Loo got worse…… again. Nashville probably hasn’t gotten any better. Winterpeg got much better. So the Hawks really have a shot here to maybe crack the top 3 or 4 in the conference. But I don’t think the Hawks should abandon ship if this year isn’t as planned. It’s tough with basically a whole new room. But they’ve got a window here, I’m not sold on it, but we’ll see!!! With the signings and what not the 'hawks seem to have gone from "Development" to "Win Now" with an emphasis on this year and this year alone. 4M extra committed to the cap next year for Jones' extension. No real possibility of MaF and likely Lanks sees less icetime this year. Koob may not be able to be re-signed. Dach may not be able to be re-signed. Murph may end up going (even though he's not Hjammer, he's still arguably our 2nd best defenseman and is NHL calibre). Next year might have to see more shake-ups by proxy, which ergo means that if they are going for it, they are loaded for this season. If that is the case, and we got our Flower, I think it needs to be Conference Final or bust for Stan. Right on! I fully agree. I will give a wee bit of credit when due, but it’s not due yet. So I’ll hold judgement till a while into the season. My main concern is that the team has bare cupboards and this last shot just made them super special bare with no 1st rounder next year. If Toews and Kane fly the fuck outta here in 2 years, there’s really no plan and even paying them for 3-5 more years is gonna be useless at best. I can’t see either taking much of a pay cut. Maybe 8.5 per for another 3 years, but that’s still a lot to pay aging players, especially when the dream will be over. I even think the Seth Jones saga doesn’t go the full 8. There’s a really good chance in 2 years time that there’ll be no youth and no stars to lean on anymore. If anything. Now is the time to get guys signed long term before the cap goes back up. I’d sign Dcat now for 8 million per for 8 years. It’ll pay dividends when the cap is at 95-100 million in 5 years time!!! |
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Post by BigT on Jul 29, 2021 14:46:27 GMT -6
Good post. I fully agree with your assessment on the lines. As far as Panera went. He publicly stated he would of taken less money to remain with the Hawks. He wanted to be here. My main concern was, why didn’t Scambo go and get a solid young center like Pierre Luc Dubois instead? I’m sure he could’ve gotten a solid young player instead. Saad just wasn’t on the same plane as Panera. I was all for trading him. I really was, but the return has to be impressive for a top 10 scorer in the league. Especially on a cap friendly deal and only 25/26 at the time. Need to get better than that. Also the constant downgrading on trade is getting annoying and downright worrisome. To trade Panera for Saad is bad, then Saad for Zadorov is much worse. Then to trade Zadorov for a 3rd rounder is just plain depressing. That can’t happen ever again!!! Wanting to remain is commendable but I could not imagine a discount of more than 10-15% and that would have still been 9.350M We would have had 31M tied up in 3 players which was more than we or any team could afford. He said he wouldn’t have gone “that high”. By the sounds and the reports, again, this is all speculation. He seemed willing to sign for around 8.5. And let’s say he did. The return could have and should have been soooooo much more even if it was 9.5. I remember reading that article and Panera saying “one day I want my number hanging in the rafters at the UC”. It was just really bad management. I respect your opinion, but I can’t respect anyone’s opinion who agrees with turning Panera into a 3rd round pick within 2 years. That’s just awful. Just awful!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 29, 2021 14:48:33 GMT -6
With the signings and what not the 'hawks seem to have gone from "Development" to "Win Now" with an emphasis on this year and this year alone. 4M extra committed to the cap next year for Jones' extension. No real possibility of MaF and likely Lanks sees less icetime this year. Koob may not be able to be re-signed. Dach may not be able to be re-signed. Murph may end up going (even though he's not Hjammer, he's still arguably our 2nd best defenseman and is NHL calibre). Next year might have to see more shake-ups by proxy, which ergo means that if they are going for it, they are loaded for this season. If that is the case, and we got our Flower, I think it needs to be Conference Final or bust for Stan. Right on! I fully agree. I will give a wee bit of credit when due, but it’s not due yet. So I’ll hold judgement till a while into the season. My main concern is that the team has bare cupboards and this last shot just made them super special bare with no 1st rounder next year. If Toews and Kane fly the fuck outta here in 2 years, there’s really no plan and even paying them for 3-5 more years is gonna be useless at best. I can’t see either taking much of a pay cut. Maybe 8.5 per for another 3 years, but that’s still a lot to pay aging players, especially when the dream will be over. I even think the Seth Jones saga doesn’t go the full 8. There’s a really good chance in 2 years time that there’ll be no youth and no stars to lean on anymore. If anything. Now is the time to get guys signed long term before the cap goes back up. I’d sign Dcat now for 8 million per for 8 years. It’ll pay dividends when the cap is at 95-100 million in 5 years time!!! the plan seems pretty obvious to me. go for it this year and next. if it works, or at least kinda works, retool after the next 2 seasons. if it doesn't, then sell off everything but Jones, D🐈, Dach, Kane, and maybbbeee Toews (if he takes a massive pay cut) and start the rebuild anew. this may even happen after (or during) this next season if the coming season goes badly... |
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Post by BigT on Jul 29, 2021 14:58:12 GMT -6
Right on! I fully agree. I will give a wee bit of credit when due, but it’s not due yet. So I’ll hold judgement till a while into the season. My main concern is that the team has bare cupboards and this last shot just made them super special bare with no 1st rounder next year. If Toews and Kane fly the fuck outta here in 2 years, there’s really no plan and even paying them for 3-5 more years is gonna be useless at best. I can’t see either taking much of a pay cut. Maybe 8.5 per for another 3 years, but that’s still a lot to pay aging players, especially when the dream will be over. I even think the Seth Jones saga doesn’t go the full 8. There’s a really good chance in 2 years time that there’ll be no youth and no stars to lean on anymore. If anything. Now is the time to get guys signed long term before the cap goes back up. I’d sign Dcat now for 8 million per for 8 years. It’ll pay dividends when the cap is at 95-100 million in 5 years time!!! the plan seems pretty obvious to me. go for it this year and next. if it works, or at least kinda works, retool after the next 2 seasons. if it doesn't, then sell off everything but Jones, D🐈, Dach, Kane, and maybbbeee Toews (if he takes a massive pay cut) and start the rebuild anew. this may even happen after (or during) this next season if the coming season goes badly... My goodness imagine if this upcoming season goes tits up? I seriously won’t understand how Scam could remain in hockey. He should be destroyed and his remnants incinerated then brought to the scurvy depths of Lake Michigan to never return. Or, imagine the tits go up on the season and Scam feels the inferno from that gawd damn sexual assault? Grab your snacks and buckle up!!! |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 29, 2021 15:03:49 GMT -6
Wanting to remain is commendable but I could not imagine a discount of more than 10-15% and that would have still been 9.350M We would have had 31M tied up in 3 players which was more than we or any team could afford. He said he wouldn’t have gone “that high”. By the sounds and the reports, again, this is all speculation. He seemed willing to sign for around 8.5. And let’s say he did. The return could have and should have been soooooo much more even if it was 9.5. I remember reading that article and Panera saying “one day I want my number hanging in the rafters at the UC”. It was just really bad management. I respect your opinion, but I can’t respect anyone’s opinion who agrees with turning Panera into a 3rd round pick within 2 years. That’s just awful. Just awful!!! Panarin said his GF wanted to go big city for her modeling career. The only choices were going to be NY, Miami or LA. Yea we traded him after signing the bridge deal for 2 years @ 6.0 and took back Saads 4 year @ 6.0. You can say we traded Saad for Z and then 3rd rounder, but Blue jackets got nothing for Panarin and Bobrovsky too. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 29, 2021 16:28:42 GMT -6
He said he wouldn’t have gone “that high”. By the sounds and the reports, again, this is all speculation. He seemed willing to sign for around 8.5. And let’s say he did. The return could have and should have been soooooo much more even if it was 9.5. I remember reading that article and Panera saying “one day I want my number hanging in the rafters at the UC”. It was just really bad management. I respect your opinion, but I can’t respect anyone’s opinion who agrees with turning Panera into a 3rd round pick within 2 years. That’s just awful. Just awful!!! Panarin said his GF wanted to go big city for her modeling career. The only choices were going to be NY, Miami or LA. Yea we traded him after signing the bridge deal for 2 years @ 6.0 and took back Saads 4 year @ 6.0. You can say we traded Saad for Z and then 3rd rounder, but Blue jackets got nothing for Panarin and Bobrovsky too. true about the GF, but I think that doesn't come out if they are still in Chicago. that was when he was in c-bus and no one wants to stay there... |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 29, 2021 16:31:03 GMT -6
the plan seems pretty obvious to me. go for it this year and next. if it works, or at least kinda works, retool after the next 2 seasons. if it doesn't, then sell off everything but Jones, D🐈, Dach, Kane, and maybbbeee Toews (if he takes a massive pay cut) and start the rebuild anew. this may even happen after (or during) this next season if the coming season goes badly... My goodness imagine if this upcoming season goes tits up? I seriously won’t understand how Scam could remain in hockey. He should be destroyed and his remnants incinerated then brought to the scurvy depths of Lake Michigan to never return. Or, imagine the tits go up on the season and Scam feels the inferno from that gawd damn sexual assault? Grab your snacks and buckle up!!! if things don't go well, either by xmas or the end of the season, then I'd say JC is stewed. they'd have to be playing better the second half and just miss or something along those lines, otherwise I think he gets his papers and Bowman hires someone else with experience. or Crawford takes over mid season. |
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