30
|
|
Post by hsbob on Jul 31, 2021 9:42:32 GMT -6
When you consider the amount of first round picks the team has had since '2010'(most already gone) with only '15&16's being traded away and the massive amount of money spent two summers ago and again this summer........this team oughta be real Goddamned good this coming season!
|
|
|
|
Post by nighbor on Jul 31, 2021 15:28:38 GMT -6
Normally I would say no. In our case we had two players who have earned their $21M combined salaries if anyone has. We were in desperate need of a #1 D and over the next few years there is no one better than Seth Jones that will become available and it would take many years to develop one. Short term pain for long term gain.You said no team could afford paying over 30 million for three players and I believe the future will prove you right....it's hasn't helped the Leafs. The Breadman was worth doing so more than Jones is IMO. The Leafs had all that money tied up in forwards at the expense of the D. That is what we would have had with Panarin. Did we need Panarin when our third and fourth best forwards were DeBrincat and Kubalik or did we need Jones when or best defender was Connor Murphy. I think we can agree who was more needed. |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Aug 1, 2021 9:19:22 GMT -6
You said no team could afford paying over 30 million for three players and I believe the future will prove you right....it's hasn't helped the Leafs. The Breadman was worth doing so more than Jones is IMO. The Leafs had all that money tied up in forwards at the expense of the D. That is what we would have had with Panarin. Did we need Panarin when our third and fourth best forwards were DeBrincat and Kubalik or did we need Jones when or best defender was Connor Murphy. I think we can agree who was more needed. Fair point,the Hawks need defensive help desperately and have for the last few years. It just woulda been an advantage if one of the four D-men we took in the 1st round could have filled the role instead of giving up max term,max $$$,max NMC and picks and one of those 1st round prospects on top of it BUT Seth Jones is a top quality D-man and at least we'll get something out of the trade this time. If ya can't draft em......buy em I guess. |
|
|
|
Post by jacksalmon on Aug 1, 2021 12:06:07 GMT -6
When you consider the amount of first round picks the team has had since '2010'(most already gone) with only '15&16's being traded away and the massive amount of money spent two summers ago and again this summer........this team oughta be real Goddamned good this coming season! Since you mentioned it, I got curious and looked up the #1 draft picks "since 2010", here they are: 2011 They had 2 1st rounders----Mark McNeill and Phillip Danault 2012 Teravainen 2013 Hartman 2014 Schmaltz 2015 No #1, but their second round pick was Graham Knott 2016 No #1, but their second round pick was Dcat 2017 Jokiharju 2018 Boqvist 2019 Dach 2020 Reichel Well, at least they got one of their picks to stick with the club and make major contributions. I am not going to spend the time analyzing who is on the club presently that represents who was obtained for the trades involving the former #1 picks, but I doubt I would have found that whoever it was was making major contributions to the club. |
|
|
|
Post by nighbor on Aug 2, 2021 1:25:51 GMT -6
The Leafs had all that money tied up in forwards at the expense of the D. That is what we would have had with Panarin. Did we need Panarin when our third and fourth best forwards were DeBrincat and Kubalik or did we need Jones when or best defender was Connor Murphy. I think we can agree who was more needed. Fair point,the Hawks need defensive help desperately and have for the last few years. It just woulda been an advantage if one of the four D-men we took in the 1st round could have filled the role instead of giving up max term,max $$$,max NMC and picks and one of those 1st round prospects on top of it BUT Seth Jones is a top quality D-man and at least we'll get something out of the trade this time. If ya can't draft em......buy em I guess. Your last statement throughout the history of sport has been proven to work, sometimes. I to wished more picks would be on the team. I am more hopeful for the D picks the last two or three years especially as Stan has gone to oicking more basic d-men. |
|
|
|
Post by nighbor on Aug 2, 2021 1:36:31 GMT -6
When you consider the amount of first round picks the team has had since '2010'(most already gone) with only '15&16's being traded away and the massive amount of money spent two summers ago and again this summer........this team oughta be real Goddamned good this coming season! Since you mentioned it, I got curious and looked up the #1 draft picks "since 2010", here they are: 2011 They had 2 1st rounders----Mark McNeill and Phillip Danault 2012 Teravainen 2013 Hartman 2014 Schmaltz 2015 No #1, but their second round pick was Graham Knott 2016 No #1, but their second round pick was Dcat 2017 Jokiharju 2018 Boqvist 2019 Dach 2020 Reichel Well, at least they got one of their picks to stick with the club and make major contributions. I am not going to spend the time analyzing who is on the club presently that represents who was obtained for the trades involving the former #1 picks, but I doubt I would have found that whoever it was was making major contributions to the club. In 2018 we had a 2nd first rounder way down at #29 Beaudin. I feel Beaudin is closer to being what Bowman thought he had in Boqvist. |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Aug 2, 2021 7:49:55 GMT -6
When you consider the amount of first round picks the team has had since '2010'(most already gone) with only '15&16's being traded away and the massive amount of money spent two summers ago and again this summer........this team oughta be real Goddamned good this coming season! Since you mentioned it, I got curious and looked up the #1 draft picks "since 2010", here they are: 2011 They had 2 1st rounders----Mark McNeill and Phillip Danault 2012 Teravainen 2013 Hartman 2014 Schmaltz 2015 No #1, but their second round pick was Graham Knott 2016 No #1, but their second round pick was Dcat 2017 Jokiharju 2018 Boqvist 2019 Dach 2020 Reichel Well, at least they got one of their picks to stick with the club and make major contributions. I am not going to spend the time analyzing who is on the club presently that represents who was obtained for the trades involving the former #1 picks, but I doubt I would have found that whoever it was was making major contributions to the club. Two 1st round picks in '18' jack,you forgot about Beaudin but who can blame ya! |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Aug 2, 2021 7:54:28 GMT -6
Fair point,the Hawks need defensive help desperately and have for the last few years. It just woulda been an advantage if one of the four D-men we took in the 1st round could have filled the role instead of giving up max term,max $$$,max NMC and picks and one of those 1st round prospects on top of it BUT Seth Jones is a top quality D-man and at least we'll get something out of the trade this time. If ya can't draft em......buy em I guess. Your last statement throughout the history of sport has been proven to work, sometimes. I to wished more picks would be on the team. I am more hopeful for the D picks the last two or three years especially as Stan has gone to oicking more basic d-men. It's shocking how SB's draft failures are glossed over and accepted,the three D-men taken in the 1st and and one in the 2nd round a few years back were supposed to be the future of the team not to mention the picks that preceded them and now I'm to put stock in the recent picks? Why? |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Aug 2, 2021 8:02:00 GMT -6
Since you mentioned it, I got curious and looked up the #1 draft picks "since 2010", here they are: 2011 They had 2 1st rounders----Mark McNeill and Phillip Danault 2012 Teravainen 2013 Hartman 2014 Schmaltz 2015 No #1, but their second round pick was Graham Knott 2016 No #1, but their second round pick was Dcat 2017 Jokiharju 2018 Boqvist 2019 Dach 2020 Reichel Well, at least they got one of their picks to stick with the club and make major contributions. I am not going to spend the time analyzing who is on the club presently that represents who was obtained for the trades involving the former #1 picks, but I doubt I would have found that whoever it was was making major contributions to the club. In 2018 we had a 2nd first rounder way down at #29 Beaudin. I feel Beaudin is closer to being what Bowman thought he had in Boqvist. Murphy,deHAAN,S Jones,C Jones,Stillman,McCabe,Kalynuk and Regula,I don't know how many D-men the Hawks will carry in 'go for it mode' but I see Rockford in Beaudin and Mitchell's future........@22! If you see something other than that.....do tell. I won't even refer to this as a logjam any more because I doubt Beaudin and Mitchell are the 'logs' needed. |
|
|
|
Post by jacksalmon on Aug 2, 2021 9:26:12 GMT -6
Since you mentioned it, I got curious and looked up the #1 draft picks "since 2010", here they are: 2011 They had 2 1st rounders----Mark McNeill and Phillip Danault 2012 Teravainen 2013 Hartman 2014 Schmaltz 2015 No #1, but their second round pick was Graham Knott 2016 No #1, but their second round pick was Dcat 2017 Jokiharju 2018 Boqvist 2019 Dach 2020 Reichel Well, at least they got one of their picks to stick with the club and make major contributions. I am not going to spend the time analyzing who is on the club presently that represents who was obtained for the trades involving the former #1 picks, but I doubt I would have found that whoever it was was making major contributions to the club. Two 1st round picks in '18' jack,you forgot about Beaudin but who can blame ya! Thanks for cleaning that up. But, it is rather disappointing that his first round picks have not amounted to much for the team. However, maybe that is the usual course for first round picks in the NHL. I wouldn't think so, but I am not going to take the time to look it up. |
|
|
|
Post by squishy24 on Aug 2, 2021 9:41:38 GMT -6
Two 1st round picks in '18' jack,you forgot about Beaudin but who can blame ya! Thanks for cleaning that up. But, it is rather disappointing that his first round picks have not amounted to much for the team. However, maybe that is the usual course for first round picks in the NHL. I wouldn't think so, but I am not going to take the time to look it up. hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft is a good site to see how many games each draft picked players have played in the NHL. At first glance, it looks like Hawks first picks are on par with any other team. From your original list above, i see McNeill and Knott are the only players that didnt play in the NHL. The rest are all currently playing for a NHL jersey. And you're right, you really have to take the time to research exactly if the drafts have been below or above the average. |
|
|
|
Post by shooter61 on Aug 2, 2021 14:49:42 GMT -6
Thats what pisses me off about stan. we have picked well, but he trades them as quick as we draft them on quick fixes that never work
out
|
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Aug 2, 2021 15:35:14 GMT -6
In 2018 we had a 2nd first rounder way down at #29 Beaudin. I feel Beaudin is closer to being what Bowman thought he had in Boqvist. Murphy,deHAAN,S Jones,C Jones,Stillman,McCabe,Kalynuk and Regula,I don't know how many D-men the Hawks will carry in 'go for it mode' but I see Rockford in Beaudin and Mitchell's future........@22! If you see something other than that.....do tell. I won't even refer to this as a logjam any more because I doubt Beaudin and Mitchell are the 'logs' needed. I believe the coaching and pro scouts etc had to sit Scambo down at the end of the year and let him know that he doesn’t have that much in his guys he’s drafted. Look for Rychel to be dealt at the TDL too. Scam said that he has a ton of cap space in 2 years. Basically he’ll have 4-5 guys signed. So he feels he can skip a few drafts and trade away them all and go head first into free agency at that point. I don’t think it’ll work out that well. Basically Scambo is gonna let the Hawks become an expansion team. People will see very quickly that he was never qualified for the job. He was and always will be an order taker. He took orders from Q, couldn’t wait to cut his throat. Then he got rid of McD and now he has what he wants. And even he is probably realizing he’s in way over his head. This is why if this year goes south, and with the ever looming threat of Brad Aldrich coming back to haunt him, he’s gonna step down. I can see it now!!! |
|
|
|
Post by Tater on Aug 2, 2021 23:13:58 GMT -6
Thats what pisses me off about stan. we have picked well, but he trades them as quick as we draft them on quick fixes that never work out And trades them after rushing their development and decreasing their trade value.
|
|
|
|
Post by LordKOTL on Aug 3, 2021 7:25:46 GMT -6
When you consider the amount of first round picks the team has had since '2010'(most already gone) with only '15&16's being traded away and the massive amount of money spent two summers ago and again this summer........this team oughta be real Goddamned good this coming season! That's what I mean. With everything Stan has done this summer and with the likelihood we lose a few key players before 2023 because of the moves thus far, he's got to be held accountable because they likely won't get the same shot next year. Hence: conference finals or bust. |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Aug 3, 2021 7:47:13 GMT -6
When you consider the amount of first round picks the team has had since '2010'(most already gone) with only '15&16's being traded away and the massive amount of money spent two summers ago and again this summer........this team oughta be real Goddamned good this coming season! That's what I mean. With everything Stan has done this summer and with the likelihood we lose a few key players before 2023 because of the moves thus far, he's got to be held accountable because they likely won't get the same shot next year. Hence: conference finals or bust. I think any reasonable person would expect a much improved team after adding more than a few good to very good players but I'm done forecasting SB's future. Making the postseason and winning a series might be all it takes for the 'Liquor executive of the year' to stay confident in his GM but who knows. If Dach plays well and if Borgstrom and/or Riechel make the team....his job is safe IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by LordKOTL on Aug 3, 2021 13:01:59 GMT -6
That's what I mean. With everything Stan has done this summer and with the likelihood we lose a few key players before 2023 because of the moves thus far, he's got to be held accountable because they likely won't get the same shot next year. Hence: conference finals or bust. I think any reasonable person would expect a much improved team after adding more than a few good to very good players but I'm done forecasting SB's future. Making the postseason and winning a series might be all it takes for the 'Liquor executive of the year' to stay confident in his GM but who knows. If Dach plays well and if Borgstrom and/or Riechel make the team....his job is safe IMO. You might be right, but in my opinion it shouldn't be safe. We can be rebuilding completely, rebuilding-in-situ, or going for it. Whatever Stan is actually doing he has to be held to that standard. If we are going for it, the results should be within toughing distance of winning the cup, or winning it. If we are rebuilding-in-situ, then Stan has to ensure the team is competitive and also keeping an eye on the future, and given his moves so far he might have hijacked some of the future for the now. If we're rebuilding completely then we have to give the up-and-comers the best complimentary players for their development, and he hasn't done that in all but 1 or 2 areas. It's not good for the 'hawks if Stan arbitrarily flip-flops in the direction the team is headed and isn't held to the standard he's trying to achieve. |
|
|
|
Post by jaty84 on Aug 4, 2021 2:23:04 GMT -6
Looking at capfriendly, for the first time, I see that we're at 667,547 over the cap. Under the assumption that we'll make no more trades and signings, my first thought was that we'll have to make a trade to get under the cap. But at more thorough check I noticed that we could possibly send for example Kalynuk to AHL before the first game. His caphit is 925,000 so we would be pleasantly below the cap and fulfilling required conditions.
Is my understanding correct? Just to know whether SB will be pushed to make a trade or he can sit and wait for the season to start...
|
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Aug 4, 2021 5:47:50 GMT -6
Looking at capfriendly, for the first time, I see that we're at 667,547 over the cap. Under the assumption that we'll make no more trades and signings, my first thought was that we'll have to make a trade to get under the cap. But at more thorough check I noticed that we could possibly send for example Kalynuk to AHL before the first game. His caphit is 925,000 so we would be pleasantly below the cap and fulfilling required conditions. Is my understanding correct? Just to know whether SB will be pushed to make a trade or he can sit and wait for the season to start... Well, there’s still a couple more to sign. Hagel and Nylander per cap friendly. Now. The Hawks could bury Connelly, Kalynuk, and anyone else on an ELC and save almost 1 million per player. Which is what will happen. But I still feel a trade is gonna happen just due to the numbers. With Toews, Dach, Johnson and Borgstrom. Not much room for Strome. If he’s a winger, probably be in the bottom 6. So if they could move his 3 million, might make things easier. I’m not sold on Strome helping much in a playoff run!!! |
|
|
|
Post by mikeveisor on Aug 4, 2021 6:26:43 GMT -6
Looking at capfriendly, for the first time, I see that we're at 667,547 over the cap. Under the assumption that we'll make no more trades and signings, my first thought was that we'll have to make a trade to get under the cap. But at more thorough check I noticed that we could possibly send for example Kalynuk to AHL before the first game. His caphit is 925,000 so we would be pleasantly below the cap and fulfilling required conditions. Is my understanding correct? Just to know whether SB will be pushed to make a trade or he can sit and wait for the season to start... <<Well, there’s still a couple more to sign. Hagel and Nylander per cap friendly. Now. The Hawks could bury Connelly, Kalynuk, and anyone else on an ELC and save almost 1 million per player. Which is what will happen. But I still feel a trade is gonna happen just due to the numbers.>> So, hypothetically, any exceeding of the salary cap before game 1 can be rectified by sending guys and salaries to the minors before then, and once game 1 rolls around, we get Shaw's $3.9M back toward the cap given his LTIR? There lies the flexibility to potentially execute no trades - simply a paper money thing at moment? |
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Aug 4, 2021 7:02:21 GMT -6
<<Well, there’s still a couple more to sign. Hagel and Nylander per cap friendly. Now. The Hawks could bury Connelly, Kalynuk, and anyone else on an ELC and save almost 1 million per player. Which is what will happen. But I still feel a trade is gonna happen just due to the numbers.>> So, hypothetically, any exceeding of the salary cap before game 1 can be rectified by sending guys and salaries to the minors before then, and once game 1 rolls around, we get Shaw's $3.9M back toward the cap given his LTIR? There lies the flexibility to potentially execute no trades - simply a paper money thing at moment? Pretty much. However, guys on an ELC can be sent down and come back up without clearing waivers. Any player with SPC and not a 2 way contract, cannot be sent down to the farm without clearing waivers. ELCs and 2 way contracts can be sent down with no repercussions!!! |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Aug 4, 2021 7:25:17 GMT -6
Looking at capfriendly, for the first time, I see that we're at 667,547 over the cap. Under the assumption that we'll make no more trades and signings, my first thought was that we'll have to make a trade to get under the cap. But at more thorough check I noticed that we could possibly send for example Kalynuk to AHL before the first game. His caphit is 925,000 so we would be pleasantly below the cap and fulfilling required conditions. Is my understanding correct? Just to know whether SB will be pushed to make a trade or he can sit and wait for the season to start... Well, there’s still a couple more to sign. Hagel and Nylander per cap friendly. Now. The Hawks could bury Connelly, Kalynuk, and anyone else on an ELC and save almost 1 million per player. Which is what will happen. But I still feel a trade is gonna happen just due to the numbers. With Toews, Dach, Johnson and Borgstrom. Not much room for Strome. If he’s a winger, probably be in the bottom 6. So if they could move his 3 million, might make things easier. I’m not sold on Strome helping much in a playoff run!!! Toews still doesn't have a timetable,I expect him in camp myself but just repeating what I read. Dach has 10gls,33pts and won 36.8% of his draws in his first 82 games,don't shoot the messenger. I do see tons of potential,a lotta tools and a great attitude in the kid though. Johnson's still a solid #3 but his play has been going in the wrong direction the last few yeas. Borgstrom is a total question mark but if Bent 'buyout' Connolly does get buried.....Borgstrom better be real good. If these are the four centers,is Borgstrom cutout for the grinding of the 4LC role or the checking of the 3LC role or do we pay Johnson 5M for a 4LC slot? Why was Strome extended at more and for longer than most of us thought...even me and I liked him more than most. I'd understand if SB had to make the decision after his one good season with D-Cat but that re-do came after a year of regression and a year in which the HC obviously didn't like what he saw. The team can go 10% over the cap in the summer,Tampa's about 6 million over at the moment but what's new so couldn't Hagel and/or Nolander be signed at any point? If the FO has to chose between Hagel and Nolander,is there any doubt which way they go? I see a mid to high teens goal scorer with energy and grit in Hagel and I'm still not sure what I see in Nolander but cutting Nolander loose makes the 'Joker' trade stink to high heaven but I already knew that. |
|
|
|
Post by LordKOTL on Aug 4, 2021 7:48:05 GMT -6
Well, there’s still a couple more to sign. Hagel and Nylander per cap friendly. Now. The Hawks could bury Connelly, Kalynuk, and anyone else on an ELC and save almost 1 million per player. Which is what will happen. But I still feel a trade is gonna happen just due to the numbers. With Toews, Dach, Johnson and Borgstrom. Not much room for Strome. If he’s a winger, probably be in the bottom 6. So if they could move his 3 million, might make things easier. I’m not sold on Strome helping much in a playoff run!!! Toews still doesn't have a timetable,I expect him in camp myself but just repeating what I read. Dach has 10gls,33pts and won 36.8% of his draws in his first 82 games,don't shoot the messenger. I do see tons of potential,a lotta tools and a great attitude in the kid though. Johnson's still a solid #3 but his play has been going in the wrong direction the last few yeas. Borgstrom is a total question mark but if Bent 'buyout' Connolly does get buried.....Borgstrom better be real good. If these are the four centers,is Borgstrom cutout for the grinding of the 4LC role or the checking of the 3LC role or do we pay Johnson 5M for a 4LC slot? Why was Strome extended at more and for longer than most of us thought...even me and I liked him more than most. I'd understand if SB had to make the decision after his one good season with D-Cat but that re-do came after a year of regression and a year in which the HC obviously didn't like what he saw. The team can go 10% over the cap in the summer,Tampa's about 6 million over at the moment but what's new so couldn't Hagel and/or Nolander be signed at any point? If the FO has to chose between Hagel and Nolander,is there any doubt which way they go? I see a mid to high teens goal scorer with energy and grit in Hagel and I'm still not sure what I see in Nolander but cutting Nolander loose makes the 'Joker' trade stink to high heaven but I already knew that. Unfortunately, yes. We've seen Stan hang onto his golden boys well past their expiry date (See also: Runblad) even if he eventually moves them. Nylander had ~1 season of mediocrity at best so I don't think Stan has given him enough chances to fail. Hagel's game on paper is more common around the league so the thought process could be that we can replace him. Stan also has the habit of over-relying on "on paper" evaluations vs what they actually do on ice. In reality we've tried to get guys to play Hagel's game and they've been very few and far between in actual practice. I think the last guy with the same tenacity and energy was Shaw early in his career--although I might be forgetting someone. Everyone tapped for that role since has been Meh. and I hope someone up in the front office sees that. Meanwhile Nylander (much like our GM) is riding on Daddy's coattails and has shown no ability to bring his talent to bear with any reliability. I think the smart move is to hang onto Hagel from the whole bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush angle, and take the loss on Nylander/Joker. We can't get much lower that what we have in Nylander especially if that becomes another downward trade lineage. Or...maybe the problem solves itself and Stan finds a bigger sucker to take DeHaan. I can dream, can't I? |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Aug 4, 2021 8:29:19 GMT -6
Toews still doesn't have a timetable,I expect him in camp myself but just repeating what I read. Dach has 10gls,33pts and won 36.8% of his draws in his first 82 games,don't shoot the messenger. I do see tons of potential,a lotta tools and a great attitude in the kid though. Johnson's still a solid #3 but his play has been going in the wrong direction the last few yeas. Borgstrom is a total question mark but if Bent 'buyout' Connolly does get buried.....Borgstrom better be real good. If these are the four centers,is Borgstrom cutout for the grinding of the 4LC role or the checking of the 3LC role or do we pay Johnson 5M for a 4LC slot? Why was Strome extended at more and for longer than most of us thought...even me and I liked him more than most. I'd understand if SB had to make the decision after his one good season with D-Cat but that re-do came after a year of regression and a year in which the HC obviously didn't like what he saw. The team can go 10% over the cap in the summer,Tampa's about 6 million over at the moment but what's new so couldn't Hagel and/or Nolander be signed at any point? If the FO has to chose between Hagel and Nolander,is there any doubt which way they go? I see a mid to high teens goal scorer with energy and grit in Hagel and I'm still not sure what I see in Nolander but cutting Nolander loose makes the 'Joker' trade stink to high heaven but I already knew that. Unfortunately, yes. We've seen Stan hang onto his golden boys well past their expiry date (See also: Runblad) even if he eventually moves them. Nylander had ~1 season of mediocrity at best so I don't think Stan has given him enough chances to fail. Hagel's game on paper is more common around the league so the thought process could be that we can replace him. Stan also has the habit of over-relying on "on paper" evaluations vs what they actually do on ice. In reality we've tried to get guys to play Hagel's game and they've been very few and far between in actual practice. I think the last guy with the same tenacity and energy was Shaw early in his career--although I might be forgetting someone. Everyone tapped for that role since has been Meh. and I hope someone up in the front office sees that. Meanwhile Nylander (much like our GM) is riding on Daddy's coattails and has shown no ability to bring his talent to bear with any reliability. I think the smart move is to hang onto Hagel from the whole bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush angle, and take the loss on Nylander/Joker. We can't get much lower that what we have in Nylander especially if that becomes another downward trade lineage. Or...maybe the problem solves itself and Stan finds a bigger sucker to take DeHaan. I can dream, can't I? Seems Hagel is seen as a tough,energy type grinder and he is that(for whatever that's worth)but as far as 'on paper',his WHL numbers were outstanding,his AHL numbers were very good and he was on track for close to 40pts in his first NHL season if it were a full one too. I dunno what he's asking for but he might be worth more than we think. I know Hinostroza is just an afterthought now and we have have number at forward but here's another guy who'll NEVER dog a shift,grind his ass off off and put up acceptable numbers along the way for a million bucks and he bleeds Black n Red.......no room for him. I know I call for bigger guys but these guys play bigger and their style of play can impact and energize a team but once again.....for whatever that's worth. |
|
|
|
Post by LordKOTL on Aug 4, 2021 8:46:43 GMT -6
Unfortunately, yes. We've seen Stan hang onto his golden boys well past their expiry date (See also: Runblad) even if he eventually moves them. Nylander had ~1 season of mediocrity at best so I don't think Stan has given him enough chances to fail. Hagel's game on paper is more common around the league so the thought process could be that we can replace him. Stan also has the habit of over-relying on "on paper" evaluations vs what they actually do on ice. In reality we've tried to get guys to play Hagel's game and they've been very few and far between in actual practice. I think the last guy with the same tenacity and energy was Shaw early in his career--although I might be forgetting someone. Everyone tapped for that role since has been Meh. and I hope someone up in the front office sees that. Meanwhile Nylander (much like our GM) is riding on Daddy's coattails and has shown no ability to bring his talent to bear with any reliability. I think the smart move is to hang onto Hagel from the whole bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush angle, and take the loss on Nylander/Joker. We can't get much lower that what we have in Nylander especially if that becomes another downward trade lineage. Or...maybe the problem solves itself and Stan finds a bigger sucker to take DeHaan. I can dream, can't I? Seems Hagel is seen as a tough,energy type grinder and he is that(for whatever that's worth)but as far as 'on paper',his WHL numbers were outstanding,his AHL numbers were very good and he was on track for close to 40pts in his first NHL season if it were a full one too. I dunno what he's asking for but he might be worth more than we think. I know Hinostroza is just an afterthought now and we have have number at forward but here's another guy who'll NEVER dog a shift,grind his ass off off and put up acceptable numbers along the way for a million bucks and he bleeds Black n Red.......no room for him. I know I call for bigger guys but these guys play bigger and their style of play can impact and energize a team but once again.....for whatever that's worth. For one: Size, like Talent, means nothing if not brought to bear. Hagel, Shaw, hell, even Debrincat have or do played bigger than they actually are. In the same vein, how many behemoths have played smaller than they are? Like you appear come across, I also think there is a lot of value in a tough, energy-type grinder that brings it often, and I don't think it's prudent to replace them unless you find someone who can do it better *and* brings extra O or D, or you find someone that brings so much extra O or D that it effectively negates the need for said energy. Granted, the last type tend to command more salary than a 4th liner should get. So in terms of Hagel proper I don't think he should be replaced until/unless we find someone who can do his job better, or someone who can score so much that they make his game superfluous. We don't have either. Nylander, even if his latent talent is much greater, simply doesn't bring it with any consistency. On the flipside though, WHL talent and to a lesser extent AHL talent doesn't necessarily lead to NHL success. Joker looked excellent for Portland. His career in the NHL has been somewhat underwhelming--even taking into account the Chicago and Buffalo teams he's been playing for. Compare what Jeremy Morin did for Rockford vs. his NHL career. I think that expectation needs to be tempered with Hagel. Maybe his O increases, but even so I think Hagel should be taken with a "show me" deal. I wouldn't mortgage the future with him of course, but I think he deserves a decent deal. That would also kick the can down the road for him a bit. |
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Aug 4, 2021 9:12:08 GMT -6
Hagel and Nylander will both be re-signed. they can do it whenever, as Bob said, due to the 10% overage allowed in the summer. with him being injured all last year, Nylander shouldn't cost that much and should be expected to start in Rockford. I expect he, Beaudin, and Mitchell to spend a good chunk of next season north of the UC.
I doubt they trade DeHaan, I think he is part of the d plan next year. hell, he might start off to the left of Jones (I expect McCabe there, though). Strome likely stays as well, due to the uncertainty of Toews. if there was anyone I could see being traded, it'd be him, though. he and Subban seem the most likely.
|
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Aug 4, 2021 17:48:15 GMT -6
Seems Hagel is seen as a tough,energy type grinder and he is that(for whatever that's worth)but as far as 'on paper',his WHL numbers were outstanding,his AHL numbers were very good and he was on track for close to 40pts in his first NHL season if it were a full one too. I dunno what he's asking for but he might be worth more than we think. I know Hinostroza is just an afterthought now and we have have number at forward but here's another guy who'll NEVER dog a shift,grind his ass off off and put up acceptable numbers along the way for a million bucks and he bleeds Black n Red.......no room for him. I know I call for bigger guys but these guys play bigger and their style of play can impact and energize a team but once again.....for whatever that's worth. For one: Size, like Talent, means nothing if not brought to bear. Hagel, Shaw, hell, even Debrincat have or do played bigger than they actually are. In the same vein, how many behemoths have played smaller than they are? Like you appear come across, I also think there is a lot of value in a tough, energy-type grinder that brings it often, and I don't think it's prudent to replace them unless you find someone who can do it better *and* brings extra O or D, or you find someone that brings so much extra O or D that it effectively negates the need for said energy. Granted, the last type tend to command more salary than a 4th liner should get. So in terms of Hagel proper I don't think he should be replaced until/unless we find someone who can do his job better, or someone who can score so much that they make his game superfluous. We don't have either. Nylander, even if his latent talent is much greater, simply doesn't bring it with any consistency. On the flipside though, WHL talent and to a lesser extent AHL talent doesn't necessarily lead to NHL success. Joker looked excellent for Portland. His career in the NHL has been somewhat underwhelming--even taking into account the Chicago and Buffalo teams he's been playing for. Compare what Jeremy Morin did for Rockford vs. his NHL career. I think that expectation needs to be tempered with Hagel. Maybe his O increases, but even so I think Hagel should be taken with a "show me" deal. I wouldn't mortgage the future with him of course, but I think he deserves a decent deal. That would also kick the can down the road for him a bit. I don't need to temper my expectations,I said I expect him to be a mid to high teens goal scorer and I say that with confidence. I didn't mention his Jr and AHL stats to fawn over him what so ever,just to point out the kid has produced offense at every level so far including the NHL........while being prepared to do whatever else the team needs him to do. Comparing him to Nolander or Morin is a bad comparison for me unless the effort I saw from him was a mirage. Maybe I'm off base and he's a dime a dozen......no skin off my ass either way at this point. I'd rather have VH than Nolander too but that's just me..,....we all want guys who leave it all out there every shift yet those types get no recognition.......just the boot all the time. |
|
|
|
Post by bigbarn27 on Aug 4, 2021 21:47:29 GMT -6
For one: Size, like Talent, means nothing if not brought to bear. Hagel, Shaw, hell, even Debrincat have or do played bigger than they actually are. In the same vein, how many behemoths have played smaller than they are? Like you appear come across, I also think there is a lot of value in a tough, energy-type grinder that brings it often, and I don't think it's prudent to replace them unless you find someone who can do it better *and* brings extra O or D, or you find someone that brings so much extra O or D that it effectively negates the need for said energy. Granted, the last type tend to command more salary than a 4th liner should get. So in terms of Hagel proper I don't think he should be replaced until/unless we find someone who can do his job better, or someone who can score so much that they make his game superfluous. We don't have either. Nylander, even if his latent talent is much greater, simply doesn't bring it with any consistency. On the flipside though, WHL talent and to a lesser extent AHL talent doesn't necessarily lead to NHL success. Joker looked excellent for Portland. His career in the NHL has been somewhat underwhelming--even taking into account the Chicago and Buffalo teams he's been playing for. Compare what Jeremy Morin did for Rockford vs. his NHL career. I think that expectation needs to be tempered with Hagel. Maybe his O increases, but even so I think Hagel should be taken with a "show me" deal. I wouldn't mortgage the future with him of course, but I think he deserves a decent deal. That would also kick the can down the road for him a bit. I don't need to temper my expectations,I said I expect him to be a mid to high teens goal scorer and I say that with confidence. I didn't mention his Jr and AHL stats to fawn over him what so ever,just to point out the kid has produced offense at every level so far including the NHL........while being prepared to do whatever else the team needs him to do. Comparing him to Nolander or Morin is a bad comparison for me unless the effort I saw from him was a mirage. Maybe I'm off base and he's a dime a dozen......no skin off my ass either way at this point. I'd rather have VH than Nolander too but that's just me..,....we all want guys who leave it all out there every shift yet those types get no recognition.......just the boot all the time. Im onboard with you Bob Hagel showed me he can finish at this level. I will say 15 min on the goals and that will be without PP time. If this team is gonna compete it will be with a 3rd line and he will be the driving force. His problem is he has Cat and special K in front of him.And yes im aware last year was small sample size |
|
|
|
Post by nighbor on Aug 4, 2021 22:15:04 GMT -6
Murphy,deHAAN,S Jones,C Jones,Stillman,McCabe,Kalynuk and Regula,I don't know how many D-men the Hawks will carry in 'go for it mode' but I see Rockford in Beaudin and Mitchell's future........@22! If you see something other than that.....do tell. I won't even refer to this as a logjam any more because I doubt Beaudin and Mitchell are the 'logs' needed. I believe the coaching and pro scouts etc had to sit Scambo down at the end of the year and let him know that he doesn’t have that much in his guys he’s drafted. Look for Rychel to be dealt at the TDL too. Scam said that he has a ton of cap space in 2 years. Basically he’ll have 4-5 guys signed. So he feels he can skip a few drafts and trade away them all and go head first into free agency at that point. I don’t think it’ll work out that well. Basically Scambo is gonna let the Hawks become an expansion team. People will see very quickly that he was never qualified for the job. He was and always will be an order taker. He took orders from Q, couldn’t wait to cut his throat. Then he got rid of McD and now he has what he wants. And even he is probably realizing he’s in way over his head. This is why if this year goes south, and with the ever looming threat of Brad Aldrich coming back to haunt him, he’s gonna step down. I can see it now!!! Stan did not need to be sat down by anyone to discuss his draft picks as he has his spreadsheets to keep him up-to-date and if that is not enough he has you to remind him. Stan liked the way Reichel played against the Blackhawks in Europe and although Stan deals his picks quickly he at least gives them an opportunity to show what they have against NHL'ers. Stan's college and overseas picks take longer to get to the NHL. It is therefore too soon to declare that Stan has not much in the guys he drafted. I still hold to my prediction of a cup in three to five or is it now two to four. For someone you claim is nothing you give him a lot of power. Firstly Rocky sat down with Q and Stan after the 2017-2018 season and refused to blame either but he put both on a short leash. Rocky made it clear that he would decide and it would not take long. It took only fifteeen games eleven games more than Savard had and his last game was a win. Q's system called for little to no physicality. The system called for an uptempo game where the opponents could not keep up. The speed of the our game slowed. No stretch passes, no agressive PK but rather form an umbrella around the goal crease always being on our heels and give the points too much time to pick us apart. Many of our PP breakouts had Kane carrying the puck out when he should have been around center ice keeping the opponents honest and facilitate easier exits. Part of being a GM is supplying the coach with the players to improve the team whenever possible. The ever looming threat of Brad Aldrich is coming back to haunt Stan, the AGM and the complete coaching staff yes even Coach Vincent. |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Aug 5, 2021 7:03:32 GMT -6
I believe the coaching and pro scouts etc had to sit Scambo down at the end of the year and let him know that he doesn’t have that much in his guys he’s drafted. Look for Rychel to be dealt at the TDL too. Scam said that he has a ton of cap space in 2 years. Basically he’ll have 4-5 guys signed. So he feels he can skip a few drafts and trade away them all and go head first into free agency at that point. I don’t think it’ll work out that well. Basically Scambo is gonna let the Hawks become an expansion team. People will see very quickly that he was never qualified for the job. He was and always will be an order taker. He took orders from Q, couldn’t wait to cut his throat. Then he got rid of McD and now he has what he wants. And even he is probably realizing he’s in way over his head. This is why if this year goes south, and with the ever looming threat of Brad Aldrich coming back to haunt him, he’s gonna step down. I can see it now!!! Stan did not need to be sat down by anyone to discuss his draft picks as he has his spreadsheets to keep him up-to-date and if that is not enough he has you to remind him. Stan liked the way Reichel played against the Blackhawks in Europe and although Stan deals his picks quickly he at least gives them an opportunity to show what they have against NHL'ers. Stan's college and overseas picks take longer to get to the NHL. It is therefore too soon to declare that Stan has not much in the guys he drafted. I still hold to my prediction of a cup in three to five or is it now two to four. For someone you claim is nothing you give him a lot of power. Firstly Rocky sat down with Q and Stan after the 2017-2018 season and refused to blame either but he put both on a short leash. Rocky made it clear that he would decide and it would not take long. It took only fifteeen games eleven games more than Savard had and his last game was a win. Q's system called for little to no physicality. The system called for an uptempo game where the opponents could not keep up. The speed of the our game slowed. No stretch passes, no agressive PK but rather form an umbrella around the goal crease always being on our heels and give the points too much time to pick us apart. Many of our PP breakouts had Kane carrying the puck out when he should have been around center ice keeping the opponents honest and facilitate easier exits. Part of being a GM is supplying the coach with the players to improve the team whenever possible. The ever looming threat of Brad Aldrich is coming back to haunt Stan, the AGM and the complete coaching staff yes even Coach Vincent. Are you comparing Savard's cup o coffee,short stint here to Hof Legend Joel Quenneville's championship tenure? Please tell me you're not! Q's system? Q's system is having the same effect down in Florida that it had here in Chicago.....do you like the system,the coaching and the record since the dimwit fired the HoF coach? You need TWO bushels for that much horseshit! Did you see the overt physicality in the Panthers' first round series.....Q has rugged men now instead of scared boys. Is it those spreadsheets responsible for all but his last three 1st rounders already being given up on? Gloss over his awful drafting and his drunken sailor spending spree two summers ago all you want but questioning a great hockey mind like Q's doesn't make the dimwit's mind any less dim. We'll see if another massive spending spree brings a cup in the near future but with so many 1st rounders gone and the cap being a huge issue for some time to come.....I ain't holdin' my breath. You continue to blame a Hof coach who's been gone for three years but it's the many draft failures and wasted spending unless you like giving up a 2nd and a 3rd to carry Shaw's deal till it can be LTIR'd.....that' an unforced error. When Brent buyout' Connolly doesn't play for his 3.5M,that's a unforced error too and don't get me started on Calvin deHAAN-job and his 4.55M. Maybe the nitwit can spend his way out of all of that........."we'll see" as a Hof wise man once said. |
|
