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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 1, 2021 18:56:25 GMT -6
not arguing that. neal and ericsson are not high on anyone's list. but it wasn't keith for neal straight up....he proposed keith for neal, broberg and a 2nd. and keith for ericsson, hoglander and a 1st. again.....boy oh boy would i love to be wrong on this one. They're not only not high on anyone's list,they're absolute salary dumps at this point and I believe DK still has decent value to the right team and the difference has to fetch something decent as well IMO. No one would do Neal or Ericsson for Keith straight up,Edt or Van would have to sweeten.....how much I'm not sure. in your reply to my post you made it seem like i was comparing keith to neal and ericsson by themselves.. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 1, 2021 19:01:57 GMT -6
one's 37, the other's 28. for the third time....i really want to be wrong on this. Do you believe Keith is worth any type of return or do you consider him a salary dump? for the last time bob.... i think neal, broberg and a 2nd would be an overpayment for 37 year old keith. and ericsson, hoglander and a 1st would be an overpayment for 37 year old keith. for the 4th time, i would love to be wrong and i acknowledged there's a possibility that i am. if you think i believe keith has no value or that his would be a good salary to dump...idk what to say. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 1, 2021 19:23:11 GMT -6
Do you believe Keith is worth any type of return or do you consider him a salary dump? for the last time bob.... i think neal, broberg and a 2nd would be an overpayment for 37 year old keith. and ericsson, hoglander and a 1st would be an overpayment for 37 year old keith. for the 4th time, i would love to be wrong and acknowledge there's a possibility that i am. if you think i believe keith has no value or that his would be a good salary to dump...idk what to say. Considering both teams need a veteran leader on D and they have a lot of young assests, it'd be a great move to get the 37yr old Keith, who's still a freak physically and could probably play 5+ more years, maybe till his mid to late 40's. He'd bring much valued experience to teams needed it on D, Edmonton and Vancouver need it. If they want Neal or Ericsson off the books they'll have to give up something. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 1, 2021 19:35:49 GMT -6
if LA gave up a second and a third for Arvidsson, who makes a million less but has one more year left on his deal, one would think we could get as much for a 3 time Cup winner... one would think... one's 37, the other's 28. for the third time....i really want to be wrong on this. true. but one has way more pedigree and also is still very much a top 4 dman in the league. there is no reason we shouldn't be able to get at least a second rounder without retaining anything. imo. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 1, 2021 19:39:43 GMT -6
one's 37, the other's 28. for the third time....i really want to be wrong on this. true. but one has way more pedigree and also is still very much a top 4 dman in the league. there is no reason we shouldn't be able to get at least a second rounder without retaining anything. imo. agree. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 1, 2021 20:32:42 GMT -6
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Post by BigT on Jul 1, 2021 21:48:20 GMT -6
That’s the biggest part of it. His experience is worth a ton to a young team. Also I don’t think he’s lost a step at all. He’ll be awesome on a good team. If he got to play with McDavid and Draisaitl. My goodness he’d be very good again. Teams want guys like him. Let’s say there’s not a deal with any of those teams. So, he waives his NMC and goes to Seattle!!! I love DK as much as you do T but another Norris would FLOOR me! I personally don’t believe his play has dropped that much if any. He’s in better shape than Bill Gates bank account, and he’s a good player and smart. He’s got the gift of age behind him now. So I’d have to think on the right team, he’ll lead the league in dman scoring, and have a wicked plus minus. Let’s say he doesn’t win. But he’ll get nominated and look the part. He’s a Norris caliber dman and I don’t think that’ll change. Just like how Lidstrom won them until he retired. Keith is the same type guy. Actually Lidstrom won most of his if not all of them after 30!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 1, 2021 22:31:30 GMT -6
IF DK went to Edmonton and IF he managed to draw a spot on their top pp, then mayybeeee he scores enough to win (or at least be nominated) for another Norris.
otherwise, no way he scores enough to even get a nomination.
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Post by tincup on Jul 1, 2021 23:32:05 GMT -6
IF DK went to Edmonton and IF he managed to draw a spot on their top pp, then mayybeeee he scores enough to win (or at least be nominated) for another Norris. otherwise, no way he scores enough to even get a nomination. That one depends where Barrie signs. Edmonton might be turning over their defence corps. Klefbom’s injury and surgery and when/if he comes back is up in the air. Larsson, Barrie and Kulikov are all UFA. Larsson has a bad back anyways. Broberg and Bouchard are ready to ease in but I could definitely see Holland wanting a vet like the article says. Maybe they are kicking the tires on Hamilton and Jones as well. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 2, 2021 2:04:39 GMT -6
IF DK went to Edmonton and IF he managed to draw a spot on their top pp, then mayybeeee he scores enough to win (or at least be nominated) for another Norris. otherwise, no way he scores enough to even get a nomination. That one depends where Barrie signs. Edmonton might be turning over their defence corps. Klefbom’s injury and surgery and when/if he comes back is up in the air. Larsson, Barrie and Kulikov are all UFA. Larsson has a bad back anyways. Broberg and Bouchard are ready to ease in but I could definitely see Holland wanting a vet like the article says. Maybe they are kicking the tires on Hamilton and Jones as well. agree. even if Barrie leaves, I could see Nurse slotting into the top unit before Keith, though. I know he took Barrie's spot a couple times during the season when the coach didn't like how Barrie was playing or when he was injured. so chances are pretty slim Keith ever wins a Norris again. but he should command a fair return on the trade market from a team like Edmonton who badly needs a solid vet on the backend. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 2, 2021 6:32:25 GMT -6
For Keith to waive his NMC. He’s gonna want playing time. I don’t think he expects anything given to him, but he’ll want to at least get a shot on the top pp. I’m sure any team will try him there. He’s a 2 time Norris trophy winner. He won’t even need to be the leader in points. If he got to the 45-50 mark. I think he’d be a nominee. I honestly think all Hawks fans with think the Hawks got ripped off once he has a successful year!!!
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Post by vadarx on Jul 2, 2021 6:47:55 GMT -6
For Keith to waive his NMC. He’s gonna want playing time. I don’t think he expects anything given to him, but he’ll want to at least get a shot on the top pp. I’m sure any team will try him there. He’s a 2 time Norris trophy winner. He won’t even need to be the leader in points. If he got to the 45-50 mark. I think he’d be a nominee. I honestly think all Hawks fans with think the Hawks got ripped off once he has a successful year!!! I think his main concerns will be proximity to his boy and chances of winning. I dunno that he will care as much about whether he is used on the top pp or not. hell, in Edmonton he could be on the second unit and still rack up points cuz McDavid is gonna be out there the majority of the time... |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 2, 2021 7:12:36 GMT -6
seeing as a trade seems probable at this point, I decided to mess around with the trade machine on cap friendly. this was the first one I tried, which was approved..
Oil get: Keith, 2021 2nd (via Vegas)
Blackhawks get: Neal, Russell, 2021 1st
Neal and Keith cancel each other out, cap-wise. we take an extra hit back with Russell and add a second in to get a first back. the oil would gain Keith and about 1.5 million in cap space to re-sign guys or add via free agency. the 'hawks take on a little hit for one season but move up in the first and would have 3 picks in the first 43.
thoughts?
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Post by tincup on Jul 2, 2021 7:30:19 GMT -6
I think the Hawks have a chance to really make a great move here. Since Neal is the unmovable object at this point. It’s best to take him and Broberg and a 2nd rounder for Keith. I think it benefits everyone. We get a young dman about to break in. He’s huge, and can skate. That’s the deal for Keith. Taking back Neal gets us at least a 2nd rounder. Now. The Canucks have a worse conundrum with Loui Ericsson. He’s at 6 million per, and just dead space. I’d trade Keith there for Ericsson, Hoglander and a first rounder. Or I’d take one of Podkolzin and Dipietro the goalie. They want to rid themselves of Ericsson baaaaad. i hope like hell i'm undervaluing DK and the cost of eliminating a bad contract, but that seems like a big overpayment to me. i'd be tickled pink if we could get a return like either of those trade scenarios.l If a person is a firm believer in analytics, Keith comes off pretty bad in this article. edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ducncan-keith-open-to-trade-to-western-canada-but-do-edmonton-oilers-make-sense |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 2, 2021 8:00:22 GMT -6
Do you believe Keith is worth any type of return or do you consider him a salary dump? for the last time bob.... i think neal, broberg and a 2nd would be an overpayment for 37 year old keith. and ericsson, hoglander and a 1st would be an overpayment for 37 year old keith. for the 4th time, i would love to be wrong and i acknowledged there's a possibility that i am. if you think i believe keith has no value or that his would be a good salary to dump...idk what to say. I didn't think you believed that and that's why I asked you the question....your answer is clear. What would you consider a reasonable return if the Hawks did take a back a bad contract as far as sweetener? |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 2, 2021 8:15:55 GMT -6
seeing as a trade seems probable at this point, I decided to mess around with the trade machine on cap friendly. this was the first one I tried, which was approved.. Oil get: Keith, 2021 2nd (via Vegas) Blackhawks get: Neal, Russell, 2021 1st Neal and Keith cancel each other out, cap-wise. we take an extra hit back with Russell and add a second in to get a first back. the oil would gain Keith and about 1.5 million in cap space to re-sign guys or add via free agency. the 'hawks take on a little hit for one season but move up in the first and would have 3 picks in the first 43. thoughts? If that's Patrick Russell,he's an unsigned 28yro UFA who made 700K last year so I don't see how he fits any trade scenario he's also goal-less after 59 NHL games as a forward. edit: Sorry,you must have meant Chris Russell and his 1.25M hit.....he's 34 and will add to the logjam at D but it's only one year I guess |
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Post by tincup on Jul 2, 2021 8:50:11 GMT -6
seeing as a trade seems probable at this point, I decided to mess around with the trade machine on cap friendly. this was the first one I tried, which was approved.. Oil get: Keith, 2021 2nd (via Vegas) Blackhawks get: Neal, Russell, 2021 1st Neal and Keith cancel each other out, cap-wise. we take an extra hit back with Russell and add a second in to get a first back. the oil would gain Keith and about 1.5 million in cap space to re-sign guys or add via free agency. the 'hawks take on a little hit for one season but move up in the first and would have 3 picks in the first 43. thoughts? Reasonable without over estimating Keith’s value at this point. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 2, 2021 8:59:23 GMT -6
seeing as a trade seems probable at this point, I decided to mess around with the trade machine on cap friendly. this was the first one I tried, which was approved.. Oil get: Keith, 2021 2nd (via Vegas) Blackhawks get: Neal, Russell, 2021 1st Neal and Keith cancel each other out, cap-wise. we take an extra hit back with Russell and add a second in to get a first back. the oil would gain Keith and about 1.5 million in cap space to re-sign guys or add via free agency. the 'hawks take on a little hit for one season but move up in the first and would have 3 picks in the first 43. thoughts? Reasonable without over estimating Keith’s value at this point. I thought it was fair for both teams. the Oil get Keith and a bit of cap space (while losing two players that would barely play anyway) and all they have to do is move back about 40 spots in the draft. I could see it working, although I suspect they would want the 'hawks 2nd rounder instead, which I would still do |
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 2, 2021 11:22:19 GMT -6
Just want to add to the Neal-trade scenario, Neal is owed 11.5mil actual salary in the next 2 yrs, as opposed to Keith’s 3.6
So if Neal comes here, Stan should ask for the 1st rounder. Thats almost 8mil in savings for Edmonton
To make it simple, just do a Keith for Neal and their 1st
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 2, 2021 11:45:49 GMT -6
seeing as a trade seems probable at this point, I decided to mess around with the trade machine on cap friendly. this was the first one I tried, which was approved.. Oil get: Keith, 2021 2nd (via Vegas) Blackhawks get: Neal, Russell, 2021 1st Neal and Keith cancel each other out, cap-wise. we take an extra hit back with Russell and add a second in to get a first back. the oil would gain Keith and about 1.5 million in cap space to re-sign guys or add via free agency. the 'hawks take on a little hit for one season but move up in the first and would have 3 picks in the first 43. thoughts? No way to Russell, he's only a few years younger than Keith, Broberg or Bouchard should be on the table. The Hawks can retain around 1 million, with Neal making 6mill that'll free up cap space for them and they get a great leader on D. With Nurse ahead of him he'd be slotted properly and give the Oilers the experience they need. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 2, 2021 12:23:49 GMT -6
Couple things to keep in mind here too. By the sounds of it, the Hawks are willing to retain maybe up to 50% of his deal.
Now, here’s where it gets tricky. Keith only makes 2.1 million next year and 1.5 in the last year. So they’d have to eat half of that, and eat half of the actual cap hit. Most fans only care how much cap hit they’d retain and it’d be half of his cap hit.
Also. Keith has no problem retiring as his salary is very low the next two years. So the Hawks will do anything to move his deal and face the recapture penalties. So it’s best the Hawks help him find a good fit. I doubt he’s coming back to Chicago this summer or for next season. So I’m hoping the eat enough salary to get a decent return!!!
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 2, 2021 12:47:26 GMT -6
Couple things to keep in mind here too. By the sounds of it, the Hawks are willing to retain maybe up to 50% of his deal. Now, here’s where it gets tricky. Keith only makes 2.1 million next year and 1.5 in the last year. So they’d have to eat half of that, and eat half of the actual cap hit. Most fans only care how much cap hit they’d retain and it’d be half of his cap hit. Also. Keith has no problem retiring as his salary is very low the next two years. So the Hawks will do anything to move his deal and face the recapture penalties. So it’s best the Hawks help him find a good fit. I doubt he’s coming back to Chicago this summer or for next season. So I’m hoping the eat enough salary to get a decent return!!! What are the chances that Keith might retire if the Hawks “cant find a deal they like” ? |
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Post by BigT on Jul 2, 2021 12:57:15 GMT -6
Couple things to keep in mind here too. By the sounds of it, the Hawks are willing to retain maybe up to 50% of his deal. Now, here’s where it gets tricky. Keith only makes 2.1 million next year and 1.5 in the last year. So they’d have to eat half of that, and eat half of the actual cap hit. Most fans only care how much cap hit they’d retain and it’d be half of his cap hit. Also. Keith has no problem retiring as his salary is very low the next two years. So the Hawks will do anything to move his deal and face the recapture penalties. So it’s best the Hawks help him find a good fit. I doubt he’s coming back to Chicago this summer or for next season. So I’m hoping the eat enough salary to get a decent return!!! What are the chances that Keith might retire if the Hawks “cant find a deal they like” ? I don’t think it’ll get to that. I don’t think it was a threat from DK. I think he wants to move closer to be with his family, and it’s probably a last resort. He makes minimal money by his standards. So it’s best to let him go where he wants. I doubt he retires due to him taking great pride to stay in incredible shape. He still obviously wants to play, and still can. So unless the Hawks piss him right off, I doubt he retires!!! |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 2, 2021 16:08:41 GMT -6
for the last time bob.... i think neal, broberg and a 2nd would be an overpayment for 37 year old keith. and ericsson, hoglander and a 1st would be an overpayment for 37 year old keith. for the 4th time, i would love to be wrong and i acknowledged there's a possibility that i am. if you think i believe keith has no value or that his would be a good salary to dump...idk what to say. I didn't think you believed that and that's why I asked you the question....your answer is clear. What would you consider a reasonable return if the Hawks did take a back a bad contract as far as sweetener? i guarantee you won't find one post of mine here or on the old boards where i come even remotely close to proposing a trade proposition. i know my limitations. i think where my strength lies is pooh-poohing other people's proposals. : ) |
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Post by tincup on Jul 2, 2021 16:44:14 GMT -6
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Post by vadarx on Jul 2, 2021 16:48:03 GMT -6
Just want to add to the Neal-trade scenario, Neal is owed 11.5mil actual salary in the next 2 yrs, as opposed to Keith’s 3.6 So if Neal comes here, Stan should ask for the 1st rounder. Thats almost 8mil in savings for Edmonton To make it simple, just do a Keith for Neal and their 1st good call, I hadn't noticed that. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 2, 2021 16:49:26 GMT -6
seeing as a trade seems probable at this point, I decided to mess around with the trade machine on cap friendly. this was the first one I tried, which was approved.. Oil get: Keith, 2021 2nd (via Vegas) Blackhawks get: Neal, Russell, 2021 1st Neal and Keith cancel each other out, cap-wise. we take an extra hit back with Russell and add a second in to get a first back. the oil would gain Keith and about 1.5 million in cap space to re-sign guys or add via free agency. the 'hawks take on a little hit for one season but move up in the first and would have 3 picks in the first 43. thoughts? No way to Russell, he's only a few years younger than Keith, Broberg or Bouchard should be on the table. The Hawks can retain around 1 million, with Neal making 6mill that'll free up cap space for them and they get a great leader on D. With Nurse ahead of him he'd be slotted properly and give the Oilers the experience they need. I included Russell because he is an ufa after next season and would almost surely spend next season in the press box or in Rockford. plus I doubt we get more than the first rounder back. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 2, 2021 17:00:57 GMT -6
No way to Russell, he's only a few years younger than Keith, Broberg or Bouchard should be on the table. The Hawks can retain around 1 million, with Neal making 6mill that'll free up cap space for them and they get a great leader on D. With Nurse ahead of him he'd be slotted properly and give the Oilers the experience they need. I included Russell because he is an ufa after next season and would almost surely spend next season in the press box or in Rockford. plus I doubt we get more than the first rounder back. I’m sure Russell would be fine in that scenario. I’d say the most likely scenario is Seattle. Next would be Van. Keith at a 3 million cap hit is very manageable. So I think those will be the landing spot for him. It may actually hinder the return but getting Keith at 3 million and the Hawks take back a bad contract makes the return much much greater!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 2, 2021 18:42:03 GMT -6
I included Russell because he is an ufa after next season and would almost surely spend next season in the press box or in Rockford. plus I doubt we get more than the first rounder back. I’m sure Russell would be fine in that scenario. I’d say the most likely scenario is Seattle. Next would be Van. Keith at a 3 million cap hit is very manageable. So I think those will be the landing spot for him. It may actually hinder the return but getting Keith at 3 million and the Hawks take back a bad contract makes the return much much greater!!! I'd like the 'nucks chances better if they didn't have about 15 million to sign at least 6 players. those players include Hughes and Pettersson. those two will take up a good chunk of that money. but, I'd say replacing Edler with Keith would be a win for them, so it could work. I think they would he his preferred choice considered their proximity to his home. as you said, if we took back a guy like Erikkson, maybe we could pry a first rounder away from them. not this year, though. no way are they giving us a top ten pick for Keith... we'd have to settle for next year's first, which I would be fine with as I will be ecstatic if we get a first rounder for him... |
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 3, 2021 11:27:35 GMT -6
What are you guys seeing in other teams” boards regarding this rumor?
Im seeing Nucks, Flames and Oil boards saying pass and that Keith is on a downhill trend and most likely will not help them (but im sure all boards are biased)
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