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Post by Tater on Jul 3, 2021 11:38:23 GMT -6
It will be very strange seeing him in a different jersey.
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Post by BigT on Jul 3, 2021 12:23:41 GMT -6
I’m sure Russell would be fine in that scenario. I’d say the most likely scenario is Seattle. Next would be Van. Keith at a 3 million cap hit is very manageable. So I think those will be the landing spot for him. It may actually hinder the return but getting Keith at 3 million and the Hawks take back a bad contract makes the return much much greater!!! I'd like the 'nucks chances better if they didn't have about 15 million to sign at least 6 players. those players include Hughes and Pettersson. those two will take up a good chunk of that money. but, I'd say replacing Edler with Keith would be a win for them, so it could work. I think they would he his preferred choice considered their proximity to his home. as you said, if we took back a guy like Erikkson, maybe we could pry a first rounder away from them. not this year, though. no way are they giving us a top ten pick for Keith... we'd have to settle for next year's first, which I would be fine with as I will be ecstatic if we get a first rounder for him... Look at it this way. Let’s say the Hawks trade for Ericsson, and retain half of Keith’s salary, that’ll get you the first rounder this year, and a top prospect. Maybe ben Podkolzin? That’s how you rebuild when you’ve got cap space. It can be done much quicker. Is Scam that smart? I don’t think he’s got a good trade in him. Every other GM makes solid moves constantly, he’s the exception to the rule. He loses 65-75% of trades, and the ones he wins are not on a bigger scale and it’s usually for a smaller piece to the puzzle….. if he wins. I’m gonna say Scam loses this trade somehow!!! |
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Post by mvr on Jul 4, 2021 16:50:36 GMT -6
Bowman should draw a clear line in the sand regarding any trade proposal. My assumption is that Keith would waive his no-trade clause to go to the Kraken, and that Seattle would then gladly pick him in the expansion draft. They would not be worried about Keith's cap hit, and in fact the low dollars remaining on the contract would be attractive to them.
If so, the Hawks would not be that bad off in this scenario just giving Keith away. His entire contract would be gone, and the third defenseman expansion protection spot now goes to Stillman, a player the Hawks would like to keep if they can.
Any trade proposal involving another team before the draft would have to improve on this situation.
An Oilers' counter- offer (ie. Caleb Jones plus a pick for Keith with salary retained), is nowhere near as good as this Kraken scenario.
Jones is not really much of an upgrade on Stillman. The draft pick, unless it is a first rounder, does not compensate for the lost cap space.
Keith has been a great warrior for this team. I want him to be happy. If he is ok going to the Kraken, so am I. There is no point in forcing a trade and taking back bad cap dollars.
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Post by BigT on Jul 4, 2021 21:40:22 GMT -6
I agree MVR. Unless the Hawks are paid handsomely to take back a bad contract. If the point to moving Keith is to make him happy and give cap relief so the Hawks can rise again, then the Kraken are the only answer.
I personally feel a full and total rebuild isn’t out of the question. But if the right scenarios arise, I’d do the rebuild now.
If the right scenarios arise, I’d give it another shot with 19/88. And I’m sure Scam Bowman isn’t the right bastard for the job!!!
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Post by vadarx on Jul 5, 2021 0:37:47 GMT -6
I would be a-ok if Seattle took Keith and it worked for him and we gained cap space. thumbs up from me.
however..... if given the choice of gaining cap space for wasting on guys like Hamilton or adding a bad contract to gain a higher draft pick, I'll take the pick. we need to kinda not be good again for another year if we want this rebuild on the fly thing to work. that, plus we need to hit on more picks, so adding another would be a good idea, imo.
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Post by BigT on Jul 5, 2021 4:16:45 GMT -6
I would be a-ok if Seattle took Keith and it worked for him and we gained cap space. thumbs up from me. however..... if given the choice of gaining cap space for wasting on guys like Hamilton or adding a bad contract to gain a higher draft pick, I'll take the pick. we need to kinda not be good again for another year if we want this rebuild on the fly thing to work. that, plus we need to hit on more picks, so adding another would be a good idea, imo. My main concern is we’ve seen what Scam does with money. It hasn’t worked out. Giving Hamilton or Jones 9 million a year ain’t gonna solve anything. We need to try and pry Byram out of Colorado. That kid is the real deal. We need a real top notch D prospect. We do not possess that player as of now. The beet way to get that player? I’d tell Colorado the Hawks are prepared to give Makar a 7 year 12 million per offer sheet. But we’ll back out If the they take the 11th pick and Mitchell for Byram. If they decline, cool. Then I have no problem offersheeting Makar, and that’ll put them in utter cap hell!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 5, 2021 8:02:20 GMT -6
I would be a-ok if Seattle took Keith and it worked for him and we gained cap space. thumbs up from me. however..... if given the choice of gaining cap space for wasting on guys like Hamilton or adding a bad contract to gain a higher draft pick, I'll take the pick. we need to kinda not be good again for another year if we want this rebuild on the fly thing to work. that, plus we need to hit on more picks, so adding another would be a good idea, imo. That's the only reason I'd be okay with it too,if DK wants it. I just don't see Seattle being as competitive right of like LV was but who knows and DK might wear the 'C' there. This seems to be the easy way out though,DK waives,they take him and all the Hawks get is is cap space? That's what MAF did and the Pens have struggled in net since. Keeping the player won't change the trajectory of the team(not much would at this point)but there might not be a better mentor in the league and he's in great shape so some amount of a resurgence isn't out of the question. DK's low salary is valuable to Seattle or any team really and his hit is commensurate to his on ice value and locker room presence......I think a return is in order. Coming away empty handed would be a setback as far as I'm concerned but coming away empty handed has been the MO the last few years. If we lose our best D-man for just his cap space,is it spent on more Maata's,more deHAAN's or more Bret 'buyout' Connolly's? Lose DK's 5.5M so we can pay bums 3.5M? Or do they give that hit to Lerch? Cap space shouldn't be an issue any time soon with D-Cat being the ONLY young player who'll be looking for a big contract so why not take a bad 1 or 2 year deal back if it returns quality picks and maybe a better prospect or two than we have now? Is the team.... A) Just staring a rebuild? B) In the middle of a rebuild? C) Through with it's rebuild? D) Never really did rebuild? E) Wouldn't know a rebuild if it kicked em in the ass? (my vote)LOL! |
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Post by tincup on Jul 5, 2021 10:56:32 GMT -6
Bowman should draw a clear line in the sand regarding any trade proposal. My assumption is that Keith would waive his no-trade clause to go to the Kraken, and that Seattle would then gladly pick him in the expansion draft. They would not be worried about Keith's cap hit, and in fact the low dollars remaining on the contract would be attractive to them. If so, the Hawks would not be that bad off in this scenario just giving Keith away. His entire contract would be gone, and the third defenseman expansion protection spot now goes to Stillman, a player the Hawks would like to keep if they can. Any trade proposal involving another team before the draft would have to improve on this situation. An Oilers' counter- offer (ie. Caleb Jones plus a pick for Keith with salary retained), is nowhere near as good as this Kraken scenario. Jones is not really much of an upgrade on Stillman. The draft pick, unless it is a first rounder, does not compensate for the lost cap space. Keith has been a great warrior for this team. I want him to be happy. If he is ok going to the Kraken, so am I. There is no point in forcing a trade and taking back bad cap dollars. I’m liking your Kraken scenario. Listening to some of the Edmonton scribes and I get the idea that the Oilers would be doing Chicago a favour by relieving them of a burden and somehow they think swapping bad contracts and a pick going Edmonton’s way is the deal. I don’t think so. Better to accommodate Keith for all the reasons you’ve stated. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 5, 2021 12:00:00 GMT -6
I would be a-ok if Seattle took Keith and it worked for him and we gained cap space. thumbs up from me. however..... if given the choice of gaining cap space for wasting on guys like Hamilton or adding a bad contract to gain a higher draft pick, I'll take the pick. we need to kinda not be good again for another year if we want this rebuild on the fly thing to work. that, plus we need to hit on more picks, so adding another would be a good idea, imo. That's the only reason I'd be okay with it too,if DK wants it. I just don't see Seattle being as competitive right of like LV was but who knows and DK might wear the 'C' there. This seems to be the easy way out though,DK waives,they take him and all the Hawks get is is cap space? That's what MAF did and the Pens have struggled in net since. Keeping the player won't change the trajectory of the team(not much would at this point)but there might not be a better mentor in the league and he's in great shape so some amount of a resurgence isn't out of the question. DK's low salary is valuable to Seattle or any team really and his hit is commensurate to his on ice value and locker room presence......I think a return is in order. Coming away empty handed would be a setback as far as I'm concerned but coming away empty handed has been the MO the last few years. If we lose our best D-man for just his cap space,is it spent on more Maata's,more deHAAN's or more Bret 'buyout' Connolly's? Lose DK's 5.5M so we can pay bums 3.5M? Or do they give that hit to Lerch? Cap space shouldn't be an issue any time soon with D-Cat being the ONLY young player who'll be looking for a big contract so why not take a bad 1 or 2 year deal back if it returns quality picks and maybe a better prospect or two than we have now? Is the team.... A) Just staring a rebuild? B) In the middle of a rebuild? C) Through with it's rebuild? D) Never really did rebuild? E) Wouldn't know a rebuild if it kicked em in the ass? (my vote)LOL! Problem is Bob. A lot of fans think certain guys on their team are worthless. Many look at Keith’s age and think he’s a negative value contract. Every team would take Keith now. Why wouldn’t you? When people say they thought Keith was awful the past couple years. I thought to myself, do these people even watch the games?  ? I mean he’s never been perfect, he’s always been a bit of a Chinese fire drill. But he’s so great at retrieving pucks and making outlet passes. He’s so smooth in his own end. Especially if he’s got a realistic partner. He played with 3 rookies most of last year and the year before. Put him as the 3rd dman on the 2nd pairing somewhere. He’ll be Norris caliber again. I promise. Last thing, he’s got like 1200 games played. You can’t buy that, have to earn it. He’s been there done that a thousand plus times. I’d want a return too. But to accommodate him and make sure he’s taken care of, I’d give him away for nothing just to say thanks for everything. He’s been worth it!!! |
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Post by tincup on Jul 5, 2021 15:21:00 GMT -6
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Post by mvr on Jul 6, 2021 18:27:01 GMT -6
As I see it, the best outcome is for the Kraken to select Keith (with no salary retained), and for the Hawks to keep Stillman and Gaudette (the only two Hawk unprotected players with any value to an expansion team).
If Edmonton, Calgary or Vancouver wants to bid on Keith, they must step up now and make a better offer.
The problem here is that Bowman rarely effectively leverages situations. He hesitates when a move needs to be made, and then he forces trades too late.
The Keith situation needs to be resolved before the expansion draft. If Bowman keeps Keith past the draft, he will lose all negotiating leverage.
A phone call to Seattle should clarify the situation in advance. Ron Francis is not likely to play games here if Bowman insists on an answer. Keith is a Hall of Famer who deserves to be treated with respect.
Does he want the player no strings attached? Yes or No? Will he select him if the Hawks leave him unprotected?
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Post by bigbarn27 on Jul 6, 2021 19:25:30 GMT -6
Ron has already shown what kind of guy he is with Preds he wont play games. Also he is one of the few GMs that Stan has a good relationship with. As you said unless the others step up with a real good offer this will do.
But it need to be done halfway soon.
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Post by hsbob on Jul 7, 2021 5:30:51 GMT -6
Who do you guys see eating Kith's minutes? Boqvist? Lerch? Murphy a #1 now?
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 7, 2021 5:40:10 GMT -6
Who do you guys see eating Kith's minutes? Boqvist? Lerch? Murphy a #1 now? I'd try and move Boqvist and Murphy and get Jones or Hamilton to eat Keiths minutes, or knowing Stan he'll go outside the box and get someone we haven't thought of. |
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Post by jimakablkhwks918 on Jul 7, 2021 8:17:04 GMT -6
I would be a-ok if Seattle took Keith and it worked for him and we gained cap space. thumbs up from me. however..... if given the choice of gaining cap space for wasting on guys like Hamilton or adding a bad contract to gain a higher draft pick, I'll take the pick. we need to kinda not be good again for another year if we want this rebuild on the fly thing to work. that, plus we need to hit on more picks, so adding another would be a good idea, imo. My main concern is we’ve seen what Scam does with money. It hasn’t worked out. Giving Hamilton or Jones 9 million a year ain’t gonna solve anything. We need to try and pry Byram out of Colorado. That kid is the real deal. We need a real top notch D prospect. We do not possess that player as of now. The beet way to get that player? I’d tell Colorado the Hawks are prepared to give Makar a 7 year 12 million per offer sheet. But we’ll back out If the they take the 11th pick and Mitchell for Byram. If they decline, cool. Then I have no problem offersheeting Makar, and that’ll put them in utter cap hell!!! Hawks passed on Byram for Dach, if I recall? COL picked him soon after, like 4th? |
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Post by bigbarn27 on Jul 7, 2021 8:30:26 GMT -6
Who do you guys see eating Kith's minutes? Boqvist? Lerch? Murphy a #1 now? Bob this team is worse without #2. Murphy is the guy to eat some of those Bo will still need to be protected. Im looking at Jamie Oleksiak hopefully in free agency. There is a big hole that will need to be addressed they wont have a #1 or #2 dman for that matter. |
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Post by gigecj on Jul 7, 2021 12:02:50 GMT -6
As I see it, the best outcome is for the Kraken to select Keith (with no salary retained), and for the Hawks to keep Stillman and Gaudette (the only two Hawk unprotected players with any value to an expansion team). If Edmonton, Calgary or Vancouver wants to bid on Keith, they must step up now and make a better offer. The problem here is that Bowman rarely effectively leverages situations. He hesitates when a move needs to be made, and then he forces trades too late. The Keith situation needs to be resolved before the expansion draft. If Bowman keeps Keith past the draft, he will lose all negotiating leverage. A phone call to Seattle should clarify the situation in advance. Ron Francis is not likely to play games here if Bowman insists on an answer. Keith is a Hall of Famer who deserves to be treated with respect. Does he want the player no strings attached? Yes or No? Will he select him if the Hawks leave him unprotected? I totally agree that Keith being selected by Seattle wherein the salary goes to them too is very likely the best scenario here. It also circumvents Stan's apparent lack of timing when it comes to trades as well as his apparent lack of negotiating power. He just doesn't have that "feel" for how and when (and, often, who). It's almost like he puts himself in a disadvantaged position giving the opponent the upper hand. It seems also that whenever a player wants out or a team wants the player out, it's always a disadvantageous situation for any GM. Getting this GM especially out of that is power in itself IMHO. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 8, 2021 6:55:50 GMT -6
I'm back working for the City of Edmonton so I'm surrounded by Oiler fans 🙄 I've heard lots of rumors of Keith coming here, one was a 3 way trade with Columbus and the Hawks gets the Jones brothers on D, not a Caleb fan but I like Seth.
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Post by galaxytrash on Jul 8, 2021 7:32:58 GMT -6
I'm back working for the City of Edmonton so I'm surrounded by Oiler fans 🙄 I've heard lots of rumors of Keith coming here, one was a 3 way trade with Columbus and the Hawks gets the Jones brothers on D, not a Caleb fan but I like Seth. what is it about caleb you don't like? i never really paid much notice to him so i'd like to hear your take. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 8, 2021 7:52:54 GMT -6
I'm back working for the City of Edmonton so I'm surrounded by Oiler fans 🙄 I've heard lots of rumors of Keith coming here, one was a 3 way trade with Columbus and the Hawks gets the Jones brothers on D, not a Caleb fan but I like Seth. what/who else would the 'hawks be trading in that deal? anything involving any first round picks is an automatic no for me... |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 8, 2021 8:21:19 GMT -6
Trading Keith to me is senseless. Unless he just wants out because of family matters.
His 5.5 mil. contract, (cap), for his talent and work ethic is a down right steal.
They won't find better for the same deal.
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Post by vadarx on Jul 8, 2021 8:48:58 GMT -6
Trading Keith to me is senseless. Unless he just wants out because of family matters. His 5.5 mil. contract, (cap), for his talent and work ethic is a down right steal. They won't find better for the same deal. supposedly he just wants out for family reasons. I'm guessing he hasn't seen his boy much in the past year and a half. he wants to be closer to him for these last couple years. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 8, 2021 9:03:56 GMT -6
I'm back working for the City of Edmonton so I'm surrounded by Oiler fans 🙄 I've heard lots of rumors of Keith coming here, one was a 3 way trade with Columbus and the Hawks gets the Jones brothers on D, not a Caleb fan but I like Seth. what/who else would the 'hawks be trading in that deal? anything involving any first round picks is an automatic no for me... I heard Strome might be part of that deal, as long as it's not Dach or a 1st. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 8, 2021 9:05:18 GMT -6
Trading Keith to me is senseless. Unless he just wants out because of family matters. His 5.5 mil. contract, (cap), for his talent and work ethic is a down right steal. They won't find better for the same deal. No doubt his cap hit is a steal for what he brings but he still has value and they want to get young. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 8, 2021 9:09:33 GMT -6
what/who else would the 'hawks be trading in that deal? anything involving any first round picks is an automatic no for me... I heard Strome might be part of that deal, as long as it's not Dach or a 1st. agree. no Dach, no first rounders. |
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Post by jacksalmon on Jul 8, 2021 9:26:31 GMT -6
Who do you guys see eating Kith's minutes? Boqvist? Lerch? Murphy a #1 now? Seeing those possibilities reminds me again why the Hawks are a long way from being seriously competitive. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 8, 2021 10:12:59 GMT -6
My main concern is we’ve seen what Scam does with money. It hasn’t worked out. Giving Hamilton or Jones 9 million a year ain’t gonna solve anything. We need to try and pry Byram out of Colorado. That kid is the real deal. We need a real top notch D prospect. We do not possess that player as of now. The beet way to get that player? I’d tell Colorado the Hawks are prepared to give Makar a 7 year 12 million per offer sheet. But we’ll back out If the they take the 11th pick and Mitchell for Byram. If they decline, cool. Then I have no problem offersheeting Makar, and that’ll put them in utter cap hell!!! Hawks passed on Byram for Dach, if I recall? COL picked him soon after, like 4th? Yes, you are correct!!! |
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Post by BigT on Jul 8, 2021 10:39:28 GMT -6
For Seth Jones. I’d definitely do this years 1st and Strome. Only if Keith was traded. I fully understand what Keith wants. He’s entitled to that at this point. So if he goes, we’ll need someone else. If Jones wants 10+ million. I’d walk. He’s not that good. He’s not Hedman or Makar or Hughes. Jones is good, but I don’t know if he’s in that top tier!!!
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 8, 2021 10:49:12 GMT -6
Who do you guys see eating Kith's minutes? Boqvist? Lerch? Murphy a #1 now? Seeing those possibilities reminds me again why the Hawks are a long way from being seriously competitive. But Boqvist is the next Karlsson 🙄 maybe his injuries and stature, but that's it. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 8, 2021 11:34:52 GMT -6
I'm back working for the City of Edmonton so I'm surrounded by Oiler fans 🙄 I've heard lots of rumors of Keith coming here, one was a 3 way trade with Columbus and the Hawks gets the Jones brothers on D, not a Caleb fan but I like Seth. what is it about caleb you don't like? i never really paid much notice to him so i'd like to hear your take. I haven't really seen much of him but he's in his mid 20's and had trouble cracking the Oilers lineup. I was shocked he played over 30gms this year, but he doesn't provide offense and he's 6'1" and under 200lbs. |
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? I mean he’s never been perfect, he’s always been a bit of a Chinese fire drill. But he’s so great at retrieving pucks and making outlet passes. He’s so smooth in his own end. Especially if he’s got a realistic partner. He played with 3 rookies most of last year and the year before. Put him as the 3rd dman on the 2nd pairing somewhere. He’ll be Norris caliber again. I promise.
