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Post by jacksalmon on Jul 8, 2021 12:29:47 GMT -6
Seeing those possibilities reminds me again why the Hawks are a long way from being seriously competitive. But Boqvist is the next Karlsson 🙄 maybe his injuries and stature, but that's it. I've never seen anything from Boqvist that shows me he can do what Keith did as a dman. On the other hand, the best thing Boqvist can do for the Hawks is guarantee that they will be as bad as possible and get some higher draft picks for a few years. That might help as with Kane and Toews gone, there will be more money available and at least they will have a shot at building a team that will win more than they lose. However, Bowman is incapable of building a Cup competitive team. There will be some lean years, or perhaps a decade, or two for the Hawks. |
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Post by mvr on Jul 8, 2021 16:24:11 GMT -6
Word out of Phoenix is that the Coyotes are shopping OEL hard, and they are willing to absorb some of his salary to get out from the remainder.
I see a real buy-low situation here. No doubt the player has been trending down the past couple of years. But in all honesty, who wouldn't be playing for that organization?
His contract is generous, but certainly no more than what Dougie Hamilton or Seth Jones will sign for in their next deals.
The Blackhawks would be wise to talk to the Coyotes and explore three-way scenarios where Keith finds a home and OEL comes here to replace him.
No doubt this idea would cost Bowman far less than the other options he's said to be exploring for a number one defenceman.
OEL just turned 30. He has not played many important games. There should be tread on his tires.
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Post by mvr on Jul 8, 2021 16:48:44 GMT -6
The OEL contract $8.25 M/year for six more years.
Let's say the Hawks offer Keith's contract, plus a prospect (Wise, Krys etc) and a pick. Perhaps substitute in Nylander or Suter or someone like that. The Coyotes absorb $1-1.5 M/year to get the trade done (which they will have to do with any trade partner).
The Coyotes then trade Keith (at half price) to Edmonton or Calgary or Seattle and pick up a couple of additional picks.
Everyone wins.
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Post by vadarx on Jul 8, 2021 16:56:20 GMT -6
The OEL contract $8.25 M/year for five more years. Let's say the Hawks offer Keith's contract, plus a prospect (Wise, Krys etc) and a pick. Perhaps substitute in Nylander or Suter or someone like that. The Coyotes absorb $1-1.5 M/year to get the trade done (which they will have to do with any trade partner). The Coyotes then trade Keith (at half price) to Edmonton or Calgary or Seattle and pick up a couple of additional picks. Everyone wins. hard pass on OEL. he is becoming injury prone and makes way too much for way too long. |
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Post by mvr on Jul 8, 2021 17:16:01 GMT -6
Ekmund-Larsson played 46 of 56 games last year and 66 the year before (both in shortened seasons). He has been dealing with some minor issues with his knee, but he hardly missed any games. His career track record with injuries is actually very low.
He does make too much for too long. So will Jones and Hamilton (likely both will demand 7-8 year deals at $8-9 M/year). The reality here is that Jones and Hamilton will be in their mid to late thirties at the end of their UFA deals (just like OEL).
The advantage here with OEL is that he is locked in for only six years. He also has negative trade value. The Hawks would be able to get him without giving up anything of real value.
OEL is a great skater with a strong offensive game (at least as good as Hamilton's). He is 6'2" and plays physical. I suspect he will rebound nicely with a new team.
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Post by mvr on Jul 8, 2021 17:23:12 GMT -6
The OEL contract $8.25 M/year for six more years. Let's say the Hawks offer Keith's contract, plus a prospect (Wise, Krys etc) and a pick. Perhaps substitute in Nylander or Suter or someone like that. The Coyotes absorb $1-1.5 M/year to get the trade done (which they will have to do with any trade partner). The Coyotes then trade Keith (at half price) to Edmonton or Calgary or Seattle and pick up a couple of additional picks. Everyone wins. hard pass on OEL. he is becoming injury prone and makes way too much for way too long. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 8, 2021 18:45:24 GMT -6
Ekmund-Larsson played 46 of 56 games last year and 66 the year before (both in shortened seasons). He has been dealing with some minor issues with his knee, but he hardly missed any games. His career track record with injuries is actually very low. He does make too much for too long. So will Jones and Hamilton (likely both will demand 7-8 year deals at $8-9 M/year). The reality here is that Jones and Hamilton will be in their mid to late thirties at the end of their UFA deals (just like OEL). The advantage here with OEL is that he is locked in for only six years. He also has negative trade value. The Hawks would be able to get him without giving up anything of real value. OEL is a great skater with a strong offensive game (at least as good as Hamilton's). He is 6'2" and plays physical. I suspect he will rebound nicely with a new team. I have to disagree. he is 30 years old and is on the backside of his career. his best days are behind him. he was already supplanted in Phoenix as the #1 dman. he spent most, if not all, of last season on the second pairing with some pp time on the second unit. I really don't want to spend that much money on a guy who likely isn't a #1 dman any longer. I don't disagree that he could rebound well with another team. he could be a solid top 4 guy for another 2-3 years. my main issue with him is less about his performance and more about money and team needs. the Blackhawks don't need to add another long term contract that will look awful in a couple seasons. that is why I don't want Hamilton or Jones either. we need draft picks and prospects right now. we can add guys like OEL later once the prospect pool is overflowing. it doesn't matter how many vets you add to the backend, it won't help. that should be fairly obvious at this point, imo. there is only one thing that is going to fix the problem on d and that is to change to a defensive system that is proven to work in the NHL. |
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Post by mvr on Jul 8, 2021 19:05:14 GMT -6
I certainly am not interested in adding either Hamilton or Jones (though my gut tells me Bowman is very much considering both).
The only reason I would consider Ekmund-Larson is because he could be acquired on a discount. If the Coyotes pay for part of the contract and take on the Keith situation, the dollars begin to start making some sense.
Of course, all would depend on how much of a discount Bowman could negotiate.
At full cap hit, I would not touch the player (and neither would anyone else). OEL with a $6-7 M cap hit, however, is more appealing as a first unit defender than most other available options to my mind.
Let's return to this idea after we see what Bowman does. He is not likely standing pat this summer. His job is now vulnerable.
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Post by BigT on Jul 8, 2021 20:00:27 GMT -6
I certainly am not interested in adding either Hamilton or Jones (though my gut tells me Bowman is very much considering both). The only reason I would consider Ekmund-Larson is because he could be acquired on a discount. If the Coyotes pay for part of the contract and take on the Keith situation, the dollars begin to start making some sense. Of course, all would depend on how much of a discount Bowman could negotiate. At full cap hit, I would not touch the player (and neither would anyone else). OEL with a $6-7 M cap hit, however, is more appealing as a first unit defender than most other available options to my mind. Let's return to this idea after we see what Bowman does. He is not likely standing pat this summer. His job is now vulnerable. I really don’t think they’ll eat any of his contract. Think of it. They would owe a couple million dollars per year for the next 5 years. They don’t have much liquid funds there. I would say the chances are very very slim that they retain anything. If they did, they’d have to get some serious sweetener back. Like the Hawks trade the 11th pick with Beaudin and Zadorov to get him at 6 million. I think it’ll be a horrible trade. If the Hawks have to trade Keith, and it sounds like they will try to accommodate him and rightfully so. Then the options would be much better in free agency then via trade. All you need to give up is cap space. If there were to be a trade for Jones, the most I’d give up is this years 11th pick, with one of Boqvist, Murphy, or even Zadorov. I’d tell Jarrmo to pick any two of them. And look to inject some kids into the mix with a couple other UFA dmen like Oleksiak. Keep the kids in the mix and build from there!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 8, 2021 20:58:41 GMT -6
I certainly am not interested in adding either Hamilton or Jones (though my gut tells me Bowman is very much considering both). The only reason I would consider Ekmund-Larson is because he could be acquired on a discount. If the Coyotes pay for part of the contract and take on the Keith situation, the dollars begin to start making some sense. Of course, all would depend on how much of a discount Bowman could negotiate. At full cap hit, I would not touch the player (and neither would anyone else). OEL with a $6-7 M cap hit, however, is more appealing as a first unit defender than most other available options to my mind. Let's return to this idea after we see what Bowman does. He is not likely standing pat this summer. His job is now vulnerable. from what I've read, I'd say they are considering trying to get both... dunno how they swing that, but... he is surely vulnerable now. I won't be shocked if he makes a bunch of moves this summer in a last gasp effort. I really hope Wirtz doesn't let him. they need to figure out whether he should even be employed any longer before they allow him to go spending money again... |
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Post by jacksalmon on Jul 8, 2021 21:02:52 GMT -6
After reading all these proposals, I feel sorry for the Hawk franchise. They are in desperation mode and are simply scrambling around to build something better without any obvious, attractive or cheap options. Unfortunately, Bowman will continue to try to build a winner right now around Kane and Toews. He's been trying that for six years now and has proven he can't do it, so it is time to give up on that idea and move them for what he can get, if the two of them will allow it. Of course, that may be out of the question as their apparel sales may make it worthwhile to keep them around. They certainly are great players, but they lack a sufficient supporting cast to make this team good again. As I said in the beginning, they are in desperation mode and are dog paddling like mad just to stay afloat.
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Post by Tater on Jul 9, 2021 0:22:58 GMT -6
from what I've read, I'd say they are considering trying to get both... dunno how they swing that, but... he is surely vulnerable now. I won't be shocked if he makes a bunch of moves this summer in a last gasp effort. I really hope Wirtz doesn't let him. they need to figure out whether he should even be employed any longer before they allow him to go spending money again...Yes to this. His desperation moves could set a rebuild effort back years. Now is the time to start fresh. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 9, 2021 5:12:56 GMT -6
the more I read about a Keith trade, the more I don't like it. seems like everyone is gonna want the 'hawks to retain salary. if that is the case, then the 'hawks should be asking for more than a mid round pick back, imo. otherwise I'd rather just leave him unprotected and hopefully have Seattle take him...
I still think my idea of swapping Keith and Neal with each team sending a pick the other way is the best choice. we give Edmonton our second, they give us their first. they still have all of their cap space to sign other players and only drop 20 spots in the draft while adding a vet to their room for 2 years...
as has been said, everything I read from the Oil end seems like they don't think he is worth much, which begs the question: why trade for him at all then? if they won't give us back at least a decent draft pick, then we should tell them to piss off. Keith would be worth more at the deadline anyway...
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 9, 2021 7:51:26 GMT -6
the more I read about a Keith trade, the more I don't like it. seems like everyone is gonna want the 'hawks to retain salary. if that is the case, then the 'hawks should be asking for more than a mid round pick back, imo. otherwise I'd rather just leave him unprotected and hopefully have Seattle take him... I still think my idea of swapping Keith and Neal with each team sending a pick the other way is the best choice. we give Edmonton our second, they give us their first. they still have all of their cap space to sign other players and only drop 20 spots in the draft while adding a vet to their room for 2 years... as has been said, everything I read from the Oil end seems like they don't think he is worth much, which begs the question: why trade for him at all then? if they won't give us back at least a decent draft pick, then we should tell them to piss off. Keith would be worth more at the deadline anyway...Since Duncs is only wanting to go to a northwest team and those teams will not be serious contenders at deadline. So who is SB going to trade him too? If they wait till the deadline then MAYBE Duncs will approve a trade to a real serious contender for the last couple months of the season and playoffs. Then Keith only will have 1 more year on his contract. Something almost any team would take. Right now as it stands his request to go to such a select few number of teams puts SB in a no win situation as far as what the Hawks want in return. Hawks will get low-balled regardless in any deal. I don't see any team doing the Hawks any favors in this. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 9, 2021 8:29:27 GMT -6
the more I read about a Keith trade, the more I don't like it. seems like everyone is gonna want the 'hawks to retain salary. if that is the case, then the 'hawks should be asking for more than a mid round pick back, imo. otherwise I'd rather just leave him unprotected and hopefully have Seattle take him... I still think my idea of swapping Keith and Neal with each team sending a pick the other way is the best choice. we give Edmonton our second, they give us their first. they still have all of their cap space to sign other players and only drop 20 spots in the draft while adding a vet to their room for 2 years... as has been said, everything I read from the Oil end seems like they don't think he is worth much, which begs the question: why trade for him at all then? if they won't give us back at least a decent draft pick, then we should tell them to piss off. Keith would be worth more at the deadline anyway...Since Duncs is only wanting to go to a northwest team and those teams will not be serious contenders at deadline. So who is SB going to trade him too? If they wait till the deadline then MAYBE Duncs will approve a trade to a real serious contender for the last couple months of the season and playoffs. Then Keith only will have 1 more year on his contract. Something almost any team would take. Right now as it stands his request to go to such a select few number of teams puts SB in a no win situation as far as what the Hawks want in return. Hawks will get low-balled regardless in any deal. I don't see any team doing the Hawks any favors in this. I cannot disagree. I'm sure Edmonton is going to try and take advantage if they can. I just really hope we don't settle for some shitty return. what sucks is Edmonton has no second or third rounder this year, so we will have to either settle for a 4th this year or wait for a higher pick next summer... |
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Post by squishy24 on Jul 9, 2021 11:48:26 GMT -6
Are there any new rumors regarding Keith lately other than Caleb Jones + ?
I get the feeling a deal is already made and theyre just waiting to announce it
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Post by BigT on Jul 9, 2021 11:52:34 GMT -6
Sounds like OEL is heading to Vancouver. For Nate Schmidt and Virtanen!!!
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Post by tincup on Jul 9, 2021 22:45:50 GMT -6
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Post by vadarx on Jul 9, 2021 23:07:10 GMT -6
just reinforces my desire to tell Edmonton to go f themselves. still say my idea of swapping contracts would be the best move for both teams. especially when it would likely eliminate the 'hawks from the Jones and Hamilton chases... |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 10, 2021 9:14:42 GMT -6
from what I've read, I'd say they are considering trying to get both... dunno how they swing that, but... he is surely vulnerable now. I won't be shocked if he makes a bunch of moves this summer in a last gasp effort. I really hope Wirtz doesn't let him. they need to figure out whether he should even be employed any longer before they allow him to go spending money again...Yes to this. His desperation moves could set a rebuild effort back years. Now is the time to start fresh. You mean set the rebuild effort back years AGAIN? Only summers ago saw the team spend big on vets,giving up a 2nd&3rd and throwing in Forsling.....like that? |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 10, 2021 9:19:33 GMT -6
I’m not calling for any of these acquisitions because a player or two will mean little to this team but Jones is 26 and plays well in his own end along with producing offense. Good number ones are real hard to find and 26 is young enough to rebuild with. Might be to expensive though.
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 10, 2021 13:55:25 GMT -6
Wonder what would happen if the Hawks offer sheet Makar Seabrooks salary?
See if the Av's match it.
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Post by BigT on Jul 10, 2021 14:27:17 GMT -6
Wonder what would happen if the Hawks offer sheet Makar Seabrooks salary? See if the Av's match it. I think a better approach here is to tell the Avs that the Hawks are going to offer sheet Makar 10 million+. They can avoid that by trading Byram to us for our first round pick this year. If they don’t, we offer sheet him and get the dman we desire now, and for the future. Either way we get our guy!!! |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 10, 2021 14:38:40 GMT -6
Wonder what would happen if the Hawks offer sheet Makar Seabrooks salary? See if the Av's match it. I think a better approach here is to tell the Avs that the Hawks are going to offer sheet Makar 10 million+. They can avoid that by trading Byram to us for our first round pick this year. If they don’t, we offer sheet him and get the dman we desire now, and for the future. Either way we get our guy!!! Hawks will have available Seabs and most of Keiths salary to get a #1 dman. ASSuming they can get a Duncs deal done with someone. Which then won't have to be such a blockbuster. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 10, 2021 14:51:54 GMT -6
Just what I was saying, another would be Miro Heiskanen.
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Post by BigT on Jul 10, 2021 15:07:06 GMT -6
I think a better approach here is to tell the Avs that the Hawks are going to offer sheet Makar 10 million+. They can avoid that by trading Byram to us for our first round pick this year. If they don’t, we offer sheet him and get the dman we desire now, and for the future. Either way we get our guy!!! Hawks will have available Seabs and most of Keiths salary to get a #1 dman. ASSuming they can get a Duncs deal done with someone. Which then won't have to be such a blockbuster. I like Heiskanen, but I don’t know if he’s the 11 million dman. I don’t know if I pay him that. I’d do 9. But that’s as far as she goes for him!!! |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jul 10, 2021 15:21:11 GMT -6
Hawks will have available Seabs and most of Keiths salary to get a #1 dman. ASSuming they can get a Duncs deal done with someone. Which then won't have to be such a blockbuster. I like Heiskanen, but I don’t know if he’s the 11 million dman. I don’t know if I pay him that. I’d do 9. But that’s as far as she goes for him!!! Again a couple real young guys that are and will be far better than anything we have. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 10, 2021 16:08:44 GMT -6
I like Heiskanen, but I don’t know if he’s the 11 million dman. I don’t know if I pay him that. I’d do 9. But that’s as far as she goes for him!!! Again a couple real young guys that are and will be far better than anything we have. Heiskanen is at best a 40 point dman right now. If that’s worth 10+ million, then Makar is worth 14. Miro is good in his own end, no doubt. But he may not be that Norris caliber dman. I think he’ll be good. But I’m not sure I wanna give up 4 first rounders and whatever else you have to, plus the salary for him. Makar id heavily think about it. Not sure I blow the wad on him though. Makar may end up being one dimensional. So let them sign a bridge deal, and see what they’re all about and get them in a few years time after we’ve built this up a bit more!!! |
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Post by tincup on Jul 10, 2021 16:55:07 GMT -6
Ryan McLeod is an interesting guy. Good size, great skater, not so much finish. But if you want to go bigger and faster there’s worst choices. Bear has some time in but at 24 he’s falling down the Oilers depth chart so he’s definitely not untouchable there.
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Post by BigT on Jul 10, 2021 17:40:03 GMT -6
I want none of Bear. I’ve seen him in the last 2 playoffs and he sucks. He’s really not an NHL player. McLeod is interesting. He seems like he might be a decent 3/4 liner. But I hope they don’t retain salary, cuz although I’d like to help the guy out, if a deal doesn’t make sense, it just doesn’t make sense!!!
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