30
|
Post by jacksalmon on Jan 4, 2022 0:09:09 GMT -6
From Charlie Roumeliotis' interview with 33 year-old Kyle Davidson on 11/18/21: Last one, what message would you give to the fanbase that they should have confidence in you moving forward and your ability to manage this team?Yeah, I think my message would simply be that right now we're in an evaluation phase and situation, but with that evaluation phase comes a plan. We're going to have a plan, we're going to put a plan together. What that is? We will get there, but for right now, we're on the road to putting a plan together to get back to where we want to be. It's not going to be easy, but we have to learn what we're dealing with here and then once that's understood, then we're going to put a comprehensive plan together to get to where we want to go. So . . . they're working on a plan and a guy who is Kane's age is driving the process . . . What a pitiful statement, which as an answer to the question of why the fanbase should have confidence in him only serves to show why the fans should not. It's like owning a boat in which one intends to venture into the ocean knowing that it is full of leaks and holes with no bilge pump.
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Jan 4, 2022 7:52:15 GMT -6
From Charlie Roumeliotis' interview with 33 year-old Kyle Davidson on 11/18/21: Last one, what message would you give to the fanbase that they should have confidence in you moving forward and your ability to manage this team?Yeah, I think my message would simply be that right now we're in an evaluation phase and situation, but with that evaluation phase comes a plan. We're going to have a plan, we're going to put a plan together. What that is? We will get there, but for right now, we're on the road to putting a plan together to get back to where we want to be. It's not going to be easy, but we have to learn what we're dealing with here and then once that's understood, then we're going to put a comprehensive plan together to get to where we want to go. So . . . they're working on a plan and a guy who is Kane's age is driving the process . . . What a pitiful statement, which as an answer to the question of why the fanbase should have confidence in him only serves to show why the fans should not. It's like owning a boat in which one intends to venture into the ocean knowing that it is full of leaks and holes with no bilge pump. I think the plan is for KD to be a place holder till Scam Bowman slithers his way back. It may be another year till that happens. But I think KD will hold office and make all the tough moves. I wouldn’t doubt if Scambo has his ear and the orgs at this point too. His dad is still there. Which is very concerning. So I think we need to look at it from a realistic point of view. Scambo is probably coming back. Maybe not right away, but he’ll be there. KD trades Toews and Kane at the draft this summer. Team tanks miserably. Then Scambo comes back in the off-season of 2023 and he’s gifted a 1st overall. And he signs 19/88 and he’s the gawd dam hero. I see it already!!!
|
|
|
Post by phill9 on Jan 4, 2022 8:51:25 GMT -6
Oh boy...so the plan is to make a plan and the one in charge of the plan and the creation of the plan seems to be incapable of creating said plan. Somebody put me out of my misery. Think there's a plan being put in place for that!
|
|
|
Post by phill9 on Jan 4, 2022 8:54:06 GMT -6
How about Kane to Buffalo for Owen Power and Vinnie H? I would do that, but I doubt anyone whose an actual GM would do that.I do think the Kane to the Rags is realistic. Especially since the Hawks have fallen apart again. I think that’s what they should be looking for!!! Well with Bowman out of the league, this definitely couldn't happen then!
|
|
|
Post by phill9 on Jan 4, 2022 8:56:44 GMT -6
What a pitiful statement, which as an answer to the question of why the fanbase should have confidence in him only serves to show why the fans should not. It's like owning a boat in which one intends to venture into the ocean knowing that it is full of leaks and holes with no bilge pump. I think the plan is for KD to be a place holder till Scam Bowman slithers his way back. It may be another year till that happens. But I think KD will hold office and make all the tough moves. I wouldn’t doubt if Scambo has his ear and the orgs at this point too. His dad is still there. Which is very concerning. So I think we need to look at it from a realistic point of view. Scambo is probably coming back. Maybe not right away, but he’ll be there. KD trades Toews and Kane at the draft this summer. Team tanks miserably. Then Scambo comes back in the off-season of 2023 and he’s gifted a 1st overall. And he signs 19/88 and he’s the gawd dam hero. I see it already!!! Which he then proceeds to trade for a 4th line tough guy who can eat up 3 to 5 minutes every other game and a future 3rd round pick
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Jan 4, 2022 9:19:35 GMT -6
What a pitiful statement, which as an answer to the question of why the fanbase should have confidence in him only serves to show why the fans should not. It's like owning a boat in which one intends to venture into the ocean knowing that it is full of leaks and holes with no bilge pump. I think the plan is for KD to be a place holder till Scam Bowman slithers his way back. It may be another year till that happens. But I think KD will hold office and make all the tough moves. I wouldn’t doubt if Scambo has his ear and the orgs at this point too. His dad is still there. Which is very concerning. So I think we need to look at it from a realistic point of view. Scambo is probably coming back. Maybe not right away, but he’ll be there. KD trades Toews and Kane at the draft this summer. Team tanks miserably. Then Scambo comes back in the off-season of 2023 and he’s gifted a 1st overall. And he signs 19/88 and he’s the gawd dam hero. I see it already!!! I ran this disastrous idea up the flagpole too and DAM us both for even thinking it!!!!!! This isn't to say that it couldn't happen......it could......and I'd wash my hands of the team from there on out! I believe Q and SB both get reinstated for next season and Scotty's still sittin' 4th on the team's FO chart.....and that's for a reason I believe. If you're Prince Daniel and you have little expertise in the business your old man put you in charge of,how do you NOT listen to the hockey legend your old man told you to listen to? I lost count of the quality hockey minds this Org has booted and now has few if any. The Org went all in on Scambo when they booted their HoF cup winning HC and they got caught in their bluff when the rest of the league called their bet as they always do! The lack of young,top-end talent in this Org with the exception of D-Cat is shocking and we're now seeing the damage of all those 1st round D-men taken and either traded or past over. If anyone doesn't think Q's arrival in Fla back in '19' had a tremendous amount to do with the high quality team they built......they're kidding themselves! YES,Barkov,Huberdeau and Ekblad were already there but additions like Hornqvist,Gudas,Bennett,Reinhart and Montour are Q's kind of guys. He's also given kids a BIG role,Knight in the PO's a week after he turned 20,20yro Lundell seeing important minutes,Tippett coming along nicely for a big 22yro and Carlsson finding a role there he couldn't here. How about the resurrection of Duclair and Forsling? I'd bet a $100 Q's back behind the Panther's bench next year........Fla was 4 games over the year before Q's arrival!
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Jan 4, 2022 10:42:05 GMT -6
I think the plan is for KD to be a place holder till Scam Bowman slithers his way back. It may be another year till that happens. But I think KD will hold office and make all the tough moves. I wouldn’t doubt if Scambo has his ear and the orgs at this point too. His dad is still there. Which is very concerning. So I think we need to look at it from a realistic point of view. Scambo is probably coming back. Maybe not right away, but he’ll be there. KD trades Toews and Kane at the draft this summer. Team tanks miserably. Then Scambo comes back in the off-season of 2023 and he’s gifted a 1st overall. And he signs 19/88 and he’s the gawd dam hero. I see it already!!! Which he then proceeds to trade for a 4th line tough guy who can eat up 3 to 5 minutes every other game and a future 3rd round pick Bollig,Mashinter,Garbutt,Tootoo,Carcillo and Martinsen were all either big or could fight and all of em were also either fringe guys or washed up. John Scott couldn't play much but at least he could fight. A few average sized tougher guys like Bouma or Wingles were brought in at the end of their careers and then the Org just said F it and let Lil dudes like Caggiula and Hagel handle what they could. Poor,damaged Shaw was also allowed to try and settle everybody else's hash and it really took a toll on the tough Lil F'er. Top end talent with toughness was never pursued.......we can always add size and toughness later I was told years back.......later never came........now it's too late. This Org has gone a decade thinking one guy can offer enough toughness for a whole team and that never works.............ESPECIALLY when that guy isn't good enough to play regularly. This approach is taken by a FO that doesn't construct their team properly IMO. I know I use Fla as an example a lot but I watch em a lot and they don't have that one huge fighter and they don't need one. Every time Reaves pulled some shit when the Cats beat em last month,saw EVERY Panther on the ice go right at him without any hesitation what so ever..............looked like a pack of Wolves taking a kill from a Grizzle in Yellowstone!LOL! MANY other teams are built this way while the Hawks' roster is still full of 'non-fighters'.
|
|
|
Post by steamer on Jan 4, 2022 13:14:29 GMT -6
Having little toughness makes them even easier to play against. Opposing D-men can retrieve the puck behind their own net with little concern about being hit - and then have the extra second to set up a quick exit out of their zone.
|
|
|
Post by Tater on Jan 4, 2022 13:48:50 GMT -6
Having little toughness makes them even easier to play against. Opposing D-men can retrieve the puck behind their own net with little concern about being hit - and then have the extra second to set up a quick exit out of their zone. Yep, this is a big problem. t's frustrating to watch. Especially whenever a Hawks Dman retrieves a puck, he has someone on him instantly and rushes a bad pass to someone not open.
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Jan 4, 2022 14:27:28 GMT -6
I think the plan is for KD to be a place holder till Scam Bowman slithers his way back. It may be another year till that happens. But I think KD will hold office and make all the tough moves. I wouldn’t doubt if Scambo has his ear and the orgs at this point too. His dad is still there. Which is very concerning. So I think we need to look at it from a realistic point of view. Scambo is probably coming back. Maybe not right away, but he’ll be there. KD trades Toews and Kane at the draft this summer. Team tanks miserably. Then Scambo comes back in the off-season of 2023 and he’s gifted a 1st overall. And he signs 19/88 and he’s the gawd dam hero. I see it already!!! Which he then proceeds to trade for a 4th line tough guy who can eat up 3 to 5 minutes every other game and a future 3rd round pick I think the bastard was too afraid to rebuild properly. So he’s letting KD do all the dirty work with his name attached. Then in comes Scambo on a white horse. If this shitty scenario happens, I hope all fans boycott this team. We’ll come here to rip on them and follow someone better like the Panthers!!!
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Jan 4, 2022 17:16:29 GMT -6
Ideologically, I object to the idea of centralized five or ten year "plans."
This kind of rigid top-down approach (as practiced in Soviet and other totalitarian societies) creates a stubborn inflexible mindset, stifling creativity, ignoring new ideas from the bottoms up.
A better approach is one based on the deliberate disorganization of the free market and the "invisible hand" -- the advantage of "capitalizing" on situations when they become available.
Of course, all organizations need some direction. The Hawks should be primarily looking long term. All moves should have that focus.
Clearly, the team is "rebuilding" (for whatever that word means). They need to add plenty of talent to get back in the game.
But there is certainly more than one way to do it.
Instead of developing "plans," management should be looking for ways to maximize their ability to capitalize on good deals when they are presented to them. Adding MA Fleury this year was a good move. He will fetch a good return this trade deadline. More of these kinds of deals will only help.
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Jan 4, 2022 17:30:37 GMT -6
The Blackhawks became a dynasty largely by accident.
A failed plan started under the Mike Smith regime set the team back so far that the subsequent management team under Dale Tallon/Stan Bowman had the financial and roster flexibility to make one mistake after another and still get better.
The successes were largely because of luck and circumstances. The Hawks had plenty of draft picks, more than any other team, and they could spend more.
But this situation was not planned. The team got lucky and capitalized on that good fortune.
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Jan 4, 2022 17:53:16 GMT -6
Dale Tallon's best move move as a General Manager came about as a result of a failed plan.
Tallon was hell-bent on re-signing Martin Havlat, despite the player's injury history and mercenary attitude.
It is only after the general manager failed to get the player signed that he tripped into a much bigger prize: Marian Hossa. Tallon was lucky to have the financial flexibility to make the deal happen. He capitalized on a better situation despite his planning.
|
|
|
Post by gigecj on Jan 4, 2022 19:51:23 GMT -6
Dale Tallon's best move move as a General Manager came about as a result of a failed plan. Tallon was hell-bent on re-signing Martin Havlat, despite the player's injury history and mercenary attitude. It is only after the general manager failed to get the player signed that he tripped into a much bigger prize: Marian Hossa. Tallon was lucky to have the financial flexibility to make the deal happen. He capitalized on a better situation despite his planning. We should also never forget winning a lottery to snag Kane.
|
|
|
Post by phill9 on Jan 4, 2022 22:27:00 GMT -6
We should also never forget winning a lottery to snag Kane. Fortunately Bowman wasn't in charge then or he would have traded the pick
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Jan 5, 2022 7:30:01 GMT -6
was just reading an article on the Athletic. LeBrun talking about how the 'nucks, habs, and ducks are all "ramping up" the GM searches...
meanwhile, in Chicago... crickets....
|
|
|
Post by phill9 on Jan 5, 2022 7:34:01 GMT -6
was just reading an article on the Athletic. LeBrun talking about how the 'nucks, habs, and ducks are all "ramping up" the GM searches... meanwhile, in Chicago... crickets.... I've heard they have a long term "PLAN"!
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Jan 5, 2022 7:52:40 GMT -6
was just reading an article on the Athletic. LeBrun talking about how the 'nucks, habs, and ducks are all "ramping up" the GM searches... meanwhile, in Chicago... crickets.... Crickets are louder than what’s happening in Chicago. We both know what’s going on. I think this may get much worse before Scambo gets back to totally ruin it!!!
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Jan 5, 2022 9:34:48 GMT -6
The Blackhawks became a dynasty largely by accident. A failed plan started under the Mike Smith regime set the team back so far that the subsequent management team under Dale Tallon/Stan Bowman had the financial and roster flexibility to make one mistake after another and still get better. The successes were largely because of luck and circumstances. The Hawks had plenty of draft picks, more than any other team, and they could spend more. But this situation was not planned. The team got lucky and capitalized on that good fortune. I'll leave the LONG list of outstanding players (some headed for the HoF)taken by Smith/Talon out because everybody knows who they are but if it was all luck and good fortune..........our luck ran out when Scotty's boy got control! I've pointed out the multitudes of awful trades,drafts and signings the past 4-5 years and what we see now is the result. If the Org wanted a new 'voice' behind the bench back in Nov '18',they shoulda gave Q the GM job,let Ulf toughen up the team the rest of that year and replaced if he wasn't the right guy instead of going years with a HC who couldn't be more wrong and kick SB to the curb. We'd be lightyears ahead of where we are now! If it's all luck.......souldn't at least ONE of Joker,Boqvist or Beaudin have worked out? You might catch lightning in a bottle once but not three times.
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Jan 5, 2022 9:54:02 GMT -6
was just reading an article on the Athletic. LeBrun talking about how the 'nucks, habs, and ducks are all "ramping up" the GM searches... meanwhile, in Chicago... crickets.... I've heard they have a long term "PLAN"! www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz5uhV4dXlw
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Jan 5, 2022 11:40:54 GMT -6
Even the good drafts - it could be argued - were more about luck than good planning (or good scouting).
Toews fell to the third spot. Likely Tallon would have chosen the defenceman if he picked higher. Kane arrived in Chicago because of a lottery ball win.
I have always felt that amateur scouting is way overrated. Projecting an 18-year-old's development five-six years later is a fools game. Smart general managers trade down, add more picks whenever possible. The more picks you have, the more likely to hit on a Brandon Saad (picked with the Hawks' fourth pick) or Duncan Keith (picked after Anton Babchuk). It is a lottery. There is no real system to it.
Instead of "planning," the better approach is to maintain flexibility always so that you can capitalize when situations develop. Add UFA players each summer on short term deals. Recycle them for picks and prospects at the trade deadline. Acquire players nobody wants as salary cap dumps, taking back the contract in return for futures. Trade these players away for more picks/prospects. Maintain flexibility always to allow for opportunistic buys. Buy low, sell high.
When I invest, I don't try to pick winners. To my mind, it is foolish to even try. Most of the big shots who pick the winners I believe have the advantage of "insider" information.
I invest in ETFs - broad-based index funds covering the entire market. The more stocks I own, the better. The more picks the Hawks can get, the more likely they hit on one.
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Jan 5, 2022 11:57:34 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Jan 5, 2022 12:48:02 GMT -6
Even the good drafts - it could be argued - were more about luck than good planning (or good scouting). Toews fell to the third spot. Likely Tallon would have chosen the defenceman if he picked higher. Kane arrived in Chicago because of a lottery ball win. I have always felt that amateur scouting is way overrated. Projecting an 18-year-old's development five-six years later is a fools game. Smart general managers trade down, add more picks whenever possible. The more picks you have, the more likely to hit on a Brandon Saad (picked with the Hawks' fourth pick) or Duncan Keith (picked after Anton Babchuk). It is a lottery. There is no real system to it. Instead of "planning," the better approach is to maintain flexibility always so that you can capitalize when situations develop. Add UFA players each summer on short term deals. Recycle them for picks and prospects at the trade deadline. Acquire players nobody wants as salary cap dumps, taking back the contract in return for futures. Trade these players away for more picks/prospects. Maintain flexibility always to allow for opportunistic buys. Buy low, sell high. When I invest, I don't try to pick winners. To my mind, it is foolish to even try. Most of the big shots who pick the winners I believe have the advantage of "insider" information. I invest in ETFs - broad-based index funds covering the entire market. The more stocks I own, the better. The more picks the Hawks can get, the more likely they hit on one. Drafting Kane,Toews,Keith,Seabs,Hammer,Crawford in the 2nd round was a DANDY,Brouwer,Buff and Versteeg,trading for Sharp......ect......ect.......along with the outstanding Hossa signing set the team up to win multiple cups. I've done good with ETF's like VYM myself BUT the thorough and endless research I did on ADM and AAPL five years ago have set up my entire retirement. Bought Ford(F) yesterday and I'll enjoy that ride too.
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Jan 5, 2022 13:36:34 GMT -6
Even the good drafts - it could be argued - were more about luck than good planning (or good scouting). Toews fell to the third spot. Likely Tallon would have chosen the defenceman if he picked higher. Kane arrived in Chicago because of a lottery ball win. I have always felt that amateur scouting is way overrated. Projecting an 18-year-old's development five-six years later is a fools game. Smart general managers trade down, add more picks whenever possible. The more picks you have, the more likely to hit on a Brandon Saad (picked with the Hawks' fourth pick) or Duncan Keith (picked after Anton Babchuk). It is a lottery. There is no real system to it. Instead of "planning," the better approach is to maintain flexibility always so that you can capitalize when situations develop. Add UFA players each summer on short term deals. Recycle them for picks and prospects at the trade deadline. Acquire players nobody wants as salary cap dumps, taking back the contract in return for futures. Trade these players away for more picks/prospects. Maintain flexibility always to allow for opportunistic buys. Buy low, sell high. When I invest, I don't try to pick winners. To my mind, it is foolish to even try. Most of the big shots who pick the winners I believe have the advantage of "insider" information. I invest in ETFs - broad-based index funds covering the entire market. The more stocks I own, the better. The more picks the Hawks can get, the more likely they hit on one. MVR, this all sounds like a crackpot pyramid scheme. There’s many ways to make money. Just the stock market, or in this case, the way to build a winner. Almost every player in the NHL was drafted. We’ve been over the % many times. But the first round is you best shot at an NHL player. Trading down decreases your chances massively. Even if you have 20 picks in round 4 or 5. Chances are that you won’t even get an NHL player. Not even one. So trading away a first rounder for two 2nds is just plain lunacy. The best players come from the top of the draft board. That’s an absolute fact. McDavid, Mathews, Kane, Toews, Tkachuk(s), Makar, Mackinnon, Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Huberdeau, Barkov, and pretty much every other great player the game has to offer. I think the way you’re suggesting sounds like a 3 day hooker rage’r. It doesn’t sound like a sane GM making smart moves. The Hawks are gonna hit rock bottom without even trying. It seems you want to make moves to keep them from the bottom. It’s not smart to fade away. It’s better to burn out than to fade away!!!
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Jan 5, 2022 14:07:38 GMT -6
Zegras could end up being the best player in his draft class. He was drafted 9th.
Cozens was drafted immediately before him. Byram was picked 4th.
Dach was selected third. Many scouts at the time had him ranked outside the top five. I remain satisfied with the pick, though I would have been happier if Bowman had traded down a few spots and picked him with the sixth-seventh pick. He might have still been available then. An additional pick or two improves the odds.
If he was not, Zegras and Cozens would have been. Both could end up having better careers. The more picks, the better.
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Jan 5, 2022 14:26:18 GMT -6
We all agree Mike Smith scored some great players in the draft. He also struck out many, many times.
His success was not because his scouts picked well. It was because he selected often. For every Brent Seabrook or Duncan Keith, there was an Adam Munro or Anton Babchuk.
For most of that era, the Hawks picked well over a dozen players each draft. Some years they had 15-16 selections.
Tallon and Smith made their "luck" by choosing more players.
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Jan 5, 2022 14:31:48 GMT -6
Big T- At most, there might be one or two franchise "can't miss" prospects in a draft.
Some years (in fact most), there are none.
Of course, if you happen to be fortunate to pick number one in a Sidney Crosby/Connor McDavid type draft, you keep the pick. Most years, you are better off trading down a few picks and hoping for the best.
When Cale Maker was selected fourth in his draft year, Nico Hiechier and Nolan Patrick were picked ahead of him. None of the players at the time were "can't miss."
Maker developed. The others did not. Colorado got lucky. Would the teams who drafted the other players have been better off trading down? Obviously, the answer is yes.
|
|
|
Post by OldTimeHawky on Jan 5, 2022 18:21:06 GMT -6
Big T- At most, there might be one or two franchise "can't miss" prospects in a draft. Some years (in fact most), there are none. Of course, if you happen to be fortunate to pick number one in a Sidney Crosby/Connor McDavid type draft, you keep the pick. Most years, you are better off trading down a few picks and hoping for the best. When Cale Maker was selected fourth in his draft year, Nico Hiechier and Nolan Patrick were picked ahead of him. None of the players at the time were "can't miss." Maker developed. The others did not. Colorado got lucky. Would the teams who drafted the other players have been better off trading down? Obviously, the answer is yes. I was happy they drafted Dach instead of Turcotte but I remember saying they could've traded down to take Dach, or else they should've grabbed Byram. The year Drai went 3rd overall to Edmonton the Sabres took Reinhart at #2. That's when the Hawks drafted Schmaltz and a sniper named Pasternak went not long after him. The draft is never a sure thing and you're right, if there isn't a for sure player you trade down and add more picks for better odds.
|
|
|
Post by T-man2010 on Jan 5, 2022 19:30:40 GMT -6
Are Tommy Ivan and Billy Reay still around?
|
|
|
Post by steamer on Jan 10, 2022 21:07:33 GMT -6
Are Tommy Ivan and Billy Reay still around? No but Ryan Pace and Matt Nagy are available. Maybe they would fare better with hockey than football.
|
|