30
|
|
Post by hawkinmontreal on Nov 16, 2024 20:46:29 GMT -6
One thing Dale Tallon did that I do not see from KD is he made a lot of trades for younger kids. Like M Holmqvist, Bartovic and about 30 others. He also found Patrick Sharp in those trades. Right now KD will find no one because he isn’t making those moves. Even the last GM took swings at former 1st rounders to see if he would hit on one of them. KD has s just waiting on draft picks. It will fail. Every team has maybe 5-7 of their drafted players on their roster. He ain’t gonna reinvent the building of an NHL team. Right now he doesn’t have one prospect that looks out of this world. Not even Bedard, because he surrounded him with 3rd liners. And guess how Bedard is playing? Like a gawd dam 3rd liner. I give KD to Xmas next year. I give him one more offseason and a bit of another season to see if this is gonna look any better. He will have 4 drafts by then, and should have a loaded prospect pool. If it looks terrible like now, he’s gone. And I wouldn’t want one of the other unqualified people in the org to take over. I’d get a hockey guy to figure this out!!! Hey T, while I will agree with you on the revolving third line players, You can’t honestly say that is the main reason Bedard has been playing poorly. All around world class players don’t use that as an excuse, his performance on the ice has been below average thus far this season, and that’s on him as a player. I have stated multiple times is posts about our draft picks, we have seen this team gain a plethora of picks, but the quality of those picks have been below average. Have I given up on guys like leshenov, no, but he was the wrong pick. Demidov should have been drafted in my humble opinion. I just see a GM who is counting his quarters worried about what type of contract extension Connor will receive than focusing on rebuilding the team as a whole. He seems unsure of himself, a GM that is not willing to make that risky move to better the team. I mentioned I do t see anyone thriving, I am with you on that KK, Moore, Dach no one is standing out and they should be, is development problems is it coaching, is it the player? I do t watch the AHL all that much, but I do pay attention to players like KK and Nazar who at one point were locks for this team, again something is lacking, but yet I take a look at Dallas for example and it seems every player drafted is leaves a mark. This is going to be a long rebuild, and unfortunately if the Hawks think money will keep Bedard around they are wrong. I don’t see him take a long term deal unless he sees a future here in Chicago where they can win. |
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Nov 16, 2024 23:42:23 GMT -6
reposting this here from the game thread tonight:
seems pretty clear that the next off-season needs to begin with a reevaluation of this idea of "bringing in guys to help Connor" that they claimed to have done this past summer. time to spend some money, Kyle, otherwise this kid is gonna the hell outta Dodge.
you've got one job, Kyle...
|
|
|
|
Post by bigbarn27 on Nov 17, 2024 0:13:40 GMT -6
reposting this here from the game thread tonight: seems pretty clear that the next off-season needs to begin with a reevaluation of this idea of "bringing in guys to help Connor" that they claimed to have done this past summer. time to spend some money, Kyle, otherwise this kid is gonna the hell outta Dodge. you've got one job, Kyle... Again easy to trade good players. Easy to overpay for 3rd line players. |
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Nov 17, 2024 1:43:47 GMT -6
One thing Dale Tallon did that I do not see from KD is he made a lot of trades for younger kids. Like M Holmqvist, Bartovic and about 30 others. He also found Patrick Sharp in those trades. Right now KD will find no one because he isn’t making those moves. Even the last GM took swings at former 1st rounders to see if he would hit on one of them. KD has s just waiting on draft picks. It will fail. Every team has maybe 5-7 of their drafted players on their roster. He ain’t gonna reinvent the building of an NHL team. Right now he doesn’t have one prospect that looks out of this world. Not even Bedard, because he surrounded him with 3rd liners. And guess how Bedard is playing? Like a gawd dam 3rd liner. I give KD to Xmas next year. I give him one more offseason and a bit of another season to see if this is gonna look any better. He will have 4 drafts by then, and should have a loaded prospect pool. If it looks terrible like now, he’s gone. And I wouldn’t want one of the other unqualified people in the org to take over. I’d get a hockey guy to figure this out!!! Hey T, while I will agree with you on the revolving third line players, You can’t honestly say that is the main reason Bedard has been playing poorly. All around world class players don’t use that as an excuse, his performance on the ice has been below average thus far this season, and that’s on him as a player. I have stated multiple times is posts about our draft picks, we have seen this team gain a plethora of picks, but the quality of those picks have been below average. Have I given up on guys like leshenov, no, but he was the wrong pick. Demidov should have been drafted in my humble opinion. I just see a GM who is counting his quarters worried about what type of contract extension Connor will receive than focusing on rebuilding the team as a whole. He seems unsure of himself, a GM that is not willing to make that risky move to better the team. I mentioned I do t see anyone thriving, I am with you on that KK, Moore, Dach no one is standing out and they should be, is development problems is it coaching, is it the player? I do t watch the AHL all that much, but I do pay attention to players like KK and Nazar who at one point were locks for this team, again something is lacking, but yet I take a look at Dallas for example and it seems every player drafted is leaves a mark. This is going to be a long rebuild, and unfortunately if the Hawks think money will keep Bedard around they are wrong. I don’t see him take a long term deal unless he sees a future here in Chicago where they can win. I can’t say you’re wrong. I feel your frustration. I can’t say a name. But my good buddy I was out with tonight, his dad coached in the NHL, he’s a high level coach etc. Anyways, he’s buddys with the Tkachuk bros. Like very good. Anyways. He told me tonight that there’s no way in cold hell that Brady would leave Ottawa to go to a rebuilding team like Chicago. Chicago is just too far out for Brady. And the word around the league is that Chicago is just a place for last contracts. On a side note. My buddy said he asked the Tkachuk bros who the best player on the national was. He said both said at the same time. Kyle Connor. Anyways, just gives you a perspective of how NHL guys feel!!! |
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Nov 17, 2024 10:46:32 GMT -6
reposting this here from the game thread tonight: seems pretty clear that the next off-season needs to begin with a reevaluation of this idea of "bringing in guys to help Connor" that they claimed to have done this past summer. time to spend some money, Kyle, otherwise this kid is gonna the hell outta Dodge. you've got one job, Kyle... Again easy to trade good players. Easy to overpay for 3rd line players. time to overpay for a first line player next summer, imo. |
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 17, 2024 12:52:10 GMT -6
Dylan Strome now has 24 points in 16 games and is a plus 13. Brandon Hagel has 17 points in 16 games.
What if instead of blowing up the entire roster and stripping everything down to the studs the general manager had kept what he had and added pieces each off-season?
Kane and Debrincat would make a very good second line along with Kirby Dach. Jake McCabe would anchor the team's second pairing. Kevin Lankinen would still be in net.
We all understand the Hawks would likely still have been picking high in the past two drafts, though there would not likely be Conner Bedard or Kevin Korchinski. The cap space saved from the declining contracts for Toews and Kane, however, could have been used to buy UFAs, take on bad contracts, and add picks.
My guess is that the Hawks would be in the playoff mix right now. With any luck and good additions, they might be even better than that.
When Kyle Davidson was busy blowing things up, a team in a similar spot, the Vancouver Canucks, decided a different direction. Instead of tanking, they hired a new coach, and they surrounded their young players with quality veterans. One team made the right decision. The other is looking to pick number one again this year.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hockey is great on Nov 17, 2024 13:05:14 GMT -6
Dylan Strome now has 24 points in 16 games and is a plus 13. Brandon Hagel has 17 points in 16 games. What if instead of blowing up the entire roster and stripping everything down to the studs the general manager had kept what he had and added pieces each off-season? Kane and Debrincat would make a very good second line along with Kirby Dach. Jake McCabe would anchor the team's second pairing. Kevin Lankinen would still be in net. We all understand the Hawks would likely still have been picking high in the past two drafts, though there would not likely be Conner Bedard or Kevin Korchinski. The cap space saved from the declining contracts for Toews and Kane, however, could have been used to buy UFAs, take on bad contracts, and add picks. My guess is that the Hawks would be in the playoff mix right now. With any luck and good additions, they might be even better than that. When Kyle Davidson was busy blowing things up, a team in a similar spot, the Vancouver Canucks, decided a different direction. Instead of tanking, they hired a new coach, and they surrounded their young players with quality veterans. One team made the right decision. The other is looking to pick number one again this year. I mean sure but they tried to compete with those guys and even traded for Seth jones and they weren’t a good team. |
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 17, 2024 13:24:52 GMT -6
Dylan Strome now has 24 points in 16 games and is a plus 13. Brandon Hagel has 17 points in 16 games. What if instead of blowing up the entire roster and stripping everything down to the studs the general manager had kept what he had and added pieces each off-season? Kane and Debrincat would make a very good second line along with Kirby Dach. Jake McCabe would anchor the team's second pairing. Kevin Lankinen would still be in net. We all understand the Hawks would likely still have been picking high in the past two drafts, though there would not likely be Conner Bedard or Kevin Korchinski. The cap space saved from the declining contracts for Toews and Kane, however, could have been used to buy UFAs, take on bad contracts, and add picks. My guess is that the Hawks would be in the playoff mix right now. With any luck and good additions, they might be even better than that. When Kyle Davidson was busy blowing things up, a team in a similar spot, the Vancouver Canucks, decided a different direction. Instead of tanking, they hired a new coach, and they surrounded their young players with quality veterans. One team made the right decision. The other is looking to pick number one again this year. I mean sure but they tried to compete with those guys and even traded for Seth jones and they weren’t a good team. Strome, Debrincat and Hagel were young guys. Dach was still really a prospect. There could have been an emerging core group. The problem then was inexperienced and ineffective coaching and a top heavy cap, with two declining assets costing the team $21 M (and a few other veterans being paid not to play). If Davidson had been patient and kept what he had until the cap crunch ended, we'd be in a much different place, and we'd still have plenty of quality young prospects in the system. My point here - there were other paths to follow. As you know, I never bought in to Davidson's "plan." |
|
|
|
Post by T-man2010 on Nov 17, 2024 14:02:18 GMT -6
The plan is sound, the execution of the plan is not working.....yet?
|
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 17, 2024 14:32:48 GMT -6
Strome's faceoff percentage is now above 55%. His defensive game has improved. He is 6'3" and well over 200 pounds, a perfect number one or two centre.
It takes time and patience for prospects to become players. Strome at 27 is just now emerging. Dach is 23 and a couple of years behind because of unfortunate injuries. Let's see where he is in five years.
Bedard will not be a fully formed player for another half decade at the very least. Levshunov is a decade away. Korchinski might peak a couple of years earlier. Patience is the key here.
Will Davidson still be around? Not likely. He has only himself to blame. He blew his big chance on a misguided idea.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hockey is great on Nov 17, 2024 15:12:41 GMT -6
Yeah don’t see strome who was soft as shit here being any type of number 1 center
|
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 17, 2024 15:23:42 GMT -6
But of course he is one now. With 24 points already (ninth in the entire league), he is likely to hit 100 plus before the end of the year. He is also among the league leaders in faceoff percentage.
Hall of Famer Phil Esposito was 29 years old when he produced his biggest scoring numbers. In his first few years in the league, he was called soft and lazy.
It takes time to learn how to play centre.
|
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Nov 18, 2024 0:31:09 GMT -6
But of course he is one now. With 24 points already (ninth in the entire league), he is likely to hit 100 plus before the end of the year. He is also among the league leaders in faceoff percentage. Hall of Famer Phil Esposito was 29 years old when he produced his biggest scoring numbers. In his first few years in the league, he was called soft and lazy. It takes time to learn how to play centre. Make that 26 points and a +16 after tonight's win out in Vegas. Strome was a GOD SEND for the Caps,they lose Backstrom and Kuznetsov and the team's headed in a better direction than it has in years. Don't look now, but old,over-paid Washington is starting to look like a younger team on the 'come'. Strome's 27 and really becoming an offensive force,center Connor McMichael(12/19 +10) is 23, 6'6" 225lb 23yro Protas has (6/17 +11),PLD is 26,Raddysh is 26 and playing effectively,Duhaime's 27,Mangiapane,Milano and Vrana are 28 and 22yro Lapierre is back honing his skills at Hershey after 22pts in 51gms last year. The Caps forward group is younger than ours.....and that's with 39yro Ovi. |
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Nov 18, 2024 7:27:27 GMT -6
But of course he is one now. With 24 points already (ninth in the entire league), he is likely to hit 100 plus before the end of the year. He is also among the league leaders in faceoff percentage. Hall of Famer Phil Esposito was 29 years old when he produced his biggest scoring numbers. In his first few years in the league, he was called soft and lazy. It takes time to learn how to play centre. Make that 26 points and a +16 after tonight's win out in Vegas. Strome was a GOD SEND for the Caps,they lose Backstrom and Kuznetsov and the team's headed in a better direction than it has in years. Don't look now, but old,over-paid Washington is starting to look like a younger team on the 'come'. Strome's 27 and really becoming an offensive force,center Connor McMichael(12/19 +10) is 23, 6'6" 225lb 23yro Protas has (6/17 +11),PLD is 26,Raddysh is 26 and playing effectively,Duhaime's 27,Mangiapane,Milano and Vrana are 28 and 22yro Lapierre is back honing his skills at Hershey after 22pts in 51gms last year. The Caps forward group is younger than ours.....and that's with 39yro Ovi. Maybe in the cap era, a full rebuild is not needed? I’ve been putting some pieces together here, and it seems like the teams that have fully rebuilt are having a lot of trouble. NJ, Buffalo, Ottawa, Columbus, Anaheim, Montreal Detroit, Arizona and now Chicago. It seems that teams that should be done, are coming back within a year or three. LA, Washington, Rags, Boston, Dallas, Van, Winnipeg, Vegas, Florida etc. I think the Hawks are in position to do what Vegas or Florida has done. Florida pretty much gave up on their rebuild and made some great trades and pickups. Tkachuk (obviously). But they picked up two essential pieces in Bennett and Reinhart. They picked up Forsling for a song, and a few others no one wanted. However, their rebuild got them Barkov, Huberdeau (Tkachuk), Ekblad, then they seem to give on most others and make trades to get out of this. I think the Hawks after this year should do the same. Started trading draft capital and prospects for guys like Florida did. A young Bennett and Reinhart would be nice. And or take a page from Vegas. Get a young star like Eichel etc. every year or two there’s always one that gets dealt!!! |
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Nov 18, 2024 8:55:40 GMT -6
Make that 26 points and a +16 after tonight's win out in Vegas. Strome was a GOD SEND for the Caps,they lose Backstrom and Kuznetsov and the team's headed in a better direction than it has in years. Don't look now, but old,over-paid Washington is starting to look like a younger team on the 'come'. Strome's 27 and really becoming an offensive force,center Connor McMichael(12/19 +10) is 23, 6'6" 225lb 23yro Protas has (6/17 +11),PLD is 26,Raddysh is 26 and playing effectively,Duhaime's 27,Mangiapane,Milano and Vrana are 28 and 22yro Lapierre is back honing his skills at Hershey after 22pts in 51gms last year. The Caps forward group is younger than ours.....and that's with 39yro Ovi. Maybe in the cap era, a full rebuild is not needed? I’ve been putting some pieces together here, and it seems like the teams that have fully rebuilt are having a lot of trouble. NJ, Buffalo, Ottawa, Columbus, Anaheim, Montreal Detroit, Arizona and now Chicago. It seems that teams that should be done, are coming back within a year or three. LA, Washington, Rags, Boston, Dallas, Van, Winnipeg, Vegas, Florida etc. I think the Hawks are in position to do what Vegas or Florida has done. Florida pretty much gave up on their rebuild and made some great trades and pickups. Tkachuk (obviously). But they picked up two essential pieces in Bennett and Reinhart. They picked up Forsling for a song, and a few others no one wanted. However, their rebuild got them Barkov, Huberdeau (Tkachuk), Ekblad, then they seem to give on most others and make trades to get out of this. I think the Hawks after this year should do the same. Started trading draft capital and prospects for guys like Florida did. A young Bennett and Reinhart would be nice. And or take a page from Vegas. Get a young star like Eichel etc. every year or two there’s always one that gets dealt!!! there's a guy out in Denver that would be almost as perfect as Brady Tkachuk would be and he is a free agent this summer (maybe). is it time to shell out some coin and get 98 a running mate out there? edit: editing this to add the reports of the cap going up much higher than was previously expected. which should mean LOTS of money will available to spend in Chicago... will they spend it or sit on it? |
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 18, 2024 9:26:01 GMT -6
Make that 26 points and a +16 after tonight's win out in Vegas. Strome was a GOD SEND for the Caps,they lose Backstrom and Kuznetsov and the team's headed in a better direction than it has in years. Don't look now, but old,over-paid Washington is starting to look like a younger team on the 'come'. Strome's 27 and really becoming an offensive force,center Connor McMichael(12/19 +10) is 23, 6'6" 225lb 23yro Protas has (6/17 +11),PLD is 26,Raddysh is 26 and playing effectively,Duhaime's 27,Mangiapane,Milano and Vrana are 28 and 22yro Lapierre is back honing his skills at Hershey after 22pts in 51gms last year. The Caps forward group is younger than ours.....and that's with 39yro Ovi. Maybe in the cap era, a full rebuild is not needed? I’ve been putting some pieces together here, and it seems like the teams that have fully rebuilt are having a lot of trouble. NJ, Buffalo, Ottawa, Columbus, Anaheim, Montreal Detroit, Arizona and now Chicago. It seems that teams that should be done, are coming back within a year or three. LA, Washington, Rags, Boston, Dallas, Van, Winnipeg, Vegas, Florida etc. I think the Hawks are in position to do what Vegas or Florida has done. Florida pretty much gave up on their rebuild and made some great trades and pickups. Tkachuk (obviously). But they picked up two essential pieces in Bennett and Reinhart. They picked up Forsling for a song, and a few others no one wanted. However, their rebuild got them Barkov, Huberdeau (Tkachuk), Ekblad, then they seem to give on most others and make trades to get out of this. I think the Hawks after this year should do the same. Started trading draft capital and prospects for guys like Florida did. A young Bennett and Reinhart would be nice. And or take a page from Vegas. Get a young star like Eichel etc. every year or two there’s always one that gets dealt!!! Not only is a "full rebuild" not "needed," it really can't be done like in previous eras. There are 32 teams in the league which spreads out the draft capital far too thin. Most kids take long much longer to develop than in even 10 years ago. The salary cap prevents managers from hoarding young talent. The window for winning is too short, and yet the timeline for traditional "rebuild" through the draft keeps getting extended... Instead of a rigid, ideological approach based on some long term central "plan," the only real effective way to build a team these days is through a pragmatic piecemeal strategy of capitalizing on opportunities when they become available while protecting your assets. There are quality players made available all the time. You add one when he is a better fit than what you have. You never give away assets for nothing. Of course you should keep your high draft picks and look to acquire more each year, but never at the expense of the existing roster. All trade scenarios should be viewed through a prism of building for the future while not damaging the present. Dach was 21 when Davidson gave him away. Strome was 24. Debrincat, Lankinen and Hagel were still quite young as well. Sure, they all had to go if the end goal was to "tank" for Bedard. But perhaps in a different scenario the Hawks kept their young talent and still won the lottery. Without question, they still likely would have still drafted high both last year and this one even without the lottery ball win. A high pick is a high pick. Is Levshunov really that much better better player than Dickinson? Is Bedard so much more valuable than other players drafted a few spots below him? I have no idea and do not believe anyone can predict the future. Quality players come from all over. Focusing exclusively on high picks of 18 year old kids at the entry draft is beyond insane to my mind. |
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 18, 2024 9:43:03 GMT -6
Washington kept many of their quality veteran older players (ie Carlson, OV etc.) while they reloaded.
When young players like McMichael and Strome arrived, they could be integrated slowly into a coherent roster with strong internal leadership. The culture was solid and consistent. There was no chaos.
|
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Nov 18, 2024 9:49:48 GMT -6
Make that 26 points and a +16 after tonight's win out in Vegas. Strome was a GOD SEND for the Caps,they lose Backstrom and Kuznetsov and the team's headed in a better direction than it has in years. Don't look now, but old,over-paid Washington is starting to look like a younger team on the 'come'. Strome's 27 and really becoming an offensive force,center Connor McMichael(12/19 +10) is 23, 6'6" 225lb 23yro Protas has (6/17 +11),PLD is 26,Raddysh is 26 and playing effectively,Duhaime's 27,Mangiapane,Milano and Vrana are 28 and 22yro Lapierre is back honing his skills at Hershey after 22pts in 51gms last year. The Caps forward group is younger than ours.....and that's with 39yro Ovi. Maybe in the cap era, a full rebuild is not needed? I’ve been putting some pieces together here, and it seems like the teams that have fully rebuilt are having a lot of trouble. NJ, Buffalo, Ottawa, Columbus, Anaheim, Montreal Detroit, Arizona and now Chicago. It seems that teams that should be done, are coming back within a year or three. LA, Washington, Rags, Boston, Dallas, Van, Winnipeg, Vegas, Florida etc. I think the Hawks are in position to do what Vegas or Florida has done. Florida pretty much gave up on their rebuild and made some great trades and pickups. Tkachuk (obviously). But they picked up two essential pieces in Bennett and Reinhart. They picked up Forsling for a song, and a few others no one wanted. However, their rebuild got them Barkov, Huberdeau (Tkachuk), Ekblad, then they seem to give on most others and make trades to get out of this. I think the Hawks after this year should do the same. Started trading draft capital and prospects for guys like Florida did. A young Bennett and Reinhart would be nice. And or take a page from Vegas. Get a young star like Eichel etc. every year or two there’s always one that gets dealt!!! It wasn't all that long ago when we saw the Rags announce a rebuild, but they went about it differently. They either bough-out or asked popular veteran to waive and ate some $$$ to move em when they did......they bit the unpopular bullet. Since the FO KNEW they'd be parting ways with K&T in the summer of '23' or the TDL in Kane's case, why not have the balls to ask both to waive in the summer of '22' instead of jettisoning young, talented players. It wouldn't have been popular at the time but telling both to 'scram' a year later didn't go-over well either......that woulda been 'biting the bullet'. I know the following season was full speed ahead to the bottom for Bedard and keeping those young,talented players might have made the team too competitive. Then convince Kane to get his hip done early in the 22-23 season, his absence for over half the year woulda offset a few young players playing well. Offer Kane a one-year for going along and he woulda been ready to go the next summer when free agency opened instead of signing mid-year if he decided to leave. When we saw how well he played when he returned, he woulda been worth more on two good wheels at the '23' TDL too. |
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 18, 2024 9:56:08 GMT -6
If any draft, more than 2/3 of the first and second round picks don't really turn out. For every one Alex Vlasic, there are two or more Mark McNeil's.
When a general manager trades an existing NHL player for a pick, he is gambling. More often than not, he will lose. The proven asset turns out to be worth much more than the pick.
The only time to trade a roster player for a pick to my mind is when there is no other choice. We know Taylor Hall will leave this summer. Of course, Davidson should trade him for a pick and get what he can.
Davidson has traded several proven assets for picks. So far, we have a lot of futures, but almost nothing concrete. Time is running out for him.
|
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 18, 2024 9:59:34 GMT -6
Maybe in the cap era, a full rebuild is not needed? I’ve been putting some pieces together here, and it seems like the teams that have fully rebuilt are having a lot of trouble. NJ, Buffalo, Ottawa, Columbus, Anaheim, Montreal Detroit, Arizona and now Chicago. It seems that teams that should be done, are coming back within a year or three. LA, Washington, Rags, Boston, Dallas, Van, Winnipeg, Vegas, Florida etc. I think the Hawks are in position to do what Vegas or Florida has done. Florida pretty much gave up on their rebuild and made some great trades and pickups. Tkachuk (obviously). But they picked up two essential pieces in Bennett and Reinhart. They picked up Forsling for a song, and a few others no one wanted. However, their rebuild got them Barkov, Huberdeau (Tkachuk), Ekblad, then they seem to give on most others and make trades to get out of this. I think the Hawks after this year should do the same. Started trading draft capital and prospects for guys like Florida did. A young Bennett and Reinhart would be nice. And or take a page from Vegas. Get a young star like Eichel etc. every year or two there’s always one that gets dealt!!! It wasn't all that long ago when we saw the Rags announce a rebuild, but they went about it differently. They either bough-out or asked popular veteran to waive and ate some $$$ to move em when they did......they bit the unpopular bullet. Since the FO KNEW they'd be parting ways with K&T in the summer of '23' or the TDL in Kane's case, why not have the balls to ask both to waive in the summer of '22' instead of jettisoning young, talented players. It wouldn't have been popular at the time but telling both to 'scram' a year later didn't go-over well either......that woulda been 'biting the bullet'. I know the following season was full speed ahead to the bottom for Bedard and keeping those young,talented players might have made the team too competitive. Then convince Kane to get his hip done early in the 22-23 season, his absence for over half the year woulda offset a few young players playing well. Offer Kane a one-year for going along and he woulda been ready to go the next summer when free agency opened instead of signing mid-year if he decided to leave. When we saw how well he played when he returned, he woulda been worth more on two good wheels at the '23' TDL too. The Rangers for the most part have been built around trades (ie Fox) and UFA signings (ie Panarin). Many of their high draft picks have not really worked out. |
|
|
|
Post by tincup on Nov 18, 2024 10:19:39 GMT -6
Make that 26 points and a +16 after tonight's win out in Vegas. Strome was a GOD SEND for the Caps,they lose Backstrom and Kuznetsov and the team's headed in a better direction than it has in years. Don't look now, but old,over-paid Washington is starting to look like a younger team on the 'come'. Strome's 27 and really becoming an offensive force,center Connor McMichael(12/19 +10) is 23, 6'6" 225lb 23yro Protas has (6/17 +11),PLD is 26,Raddysh is 26 and playing effectively,Duhaime's 27,Mangiapane,Milano and Vrana are 28 and 22yro Lapierre is back honing his skills at Hershey after 22pts in 51gms last year. The Caps forward group is younger than ours.....and that's with 39yro Ovi. Started trading draft capital and prospects for guys like Florida did. A young Bennett and Reinhart would be nice. And or take a page from Vegas. Get a young star like Eichel etc. every year or two there’s always one that gets dealt!!! I’m onboard. But I’m losing faith that this Chicago front office are the ones that can be entrusted to pull this off. |
|
|
|
Post by OldTimeHawky on Nov 18, 2024 10:20:43 GMT -6
If any draft, more than 2/3 of the first and second round picks don't really turn out. For every one Alex Vlasic, there are two or more Mark McNeil's. When a general manager trades an existing NHL player for a pick, he is gambling. More often than not, he will lose. The proven asset turns out to be worth much more than the pick. The only time to trade a roster player for a pick to my mind is when there is no other choice. We know Taylor Hall will leave this summer. Of course, Davidson should trade him for a pick and get what he can. Davidson has traded several proven assets for picks. So far, we have a lot of futures, but almost nothing concrete. Time is running out for him. True they're taking a gamble when trading a proven asset so it's good KD got multiple picks in the first couple rounds for most of his assets. The odds are good they'll hit with some of the picks. But I don't think time is running out considering his first pick turned 20 less than 6mnths ago, he has at least 2 more years before his picks should be taking over most of the spots on the Hawks. Until then, it's too soon. |
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 18, 2024 13:05:49 GMT -6
I have high hopes for both Moore and especially Boisvert, but in all likelihood neither becomes what Brandon Hagel is right now. In fact, the odds tell us that one of the two never really makes it. We also need to remember that the two fourth round picks sent to Tampa also could have turned into players if kept.
I look at Frank Nazar and think about Brandon Pirri, who dominated the AHL at one point but never really made it. Nazar could emerge as a useful player, but he is a small guy with a big hill still to climb just to make it to the show. We know Kirby Dach's floor is a third liner, and I still believe he will be top six at some point if he can stay healthy.
I am hopeful that Korchinski develops, but I know what Debrincat is already. Bedard could become a force some day, but the players Davidson gave away for nothing (including Strome, Lankinen and Kane) to get into the position to draft him would be very useful right now.
What if Bedard gets injured? What if he does not work out the way we hope? What a waste.
|
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Nov 18, 2024 13:17:51 GMT -6
If any draft, more than 2/3 of the first and second round picks don't really turn out. For every one Alex Vlasic, there are two or more Mark McNeil's. When a general manager trades an existing NHL player for a pick, he is gambling. More often than not, he will lose. The proven asset turns out to be worth much more than the pick. The only time to trade a roster player for a pick to my mind is when there is no other choice. We know Taylor Hall will leave this summer. Of course, Davidson should trade him for a pick and get what he can. Davidson has traded several proven assets for picks. So far, we have a lot of futures, but almost nothing concrete. Time is running out for him. True they're taking a gamble when trading a proven asset so it's good KD got multiple picks in the first couple rounds for most of his assets. The odds are good they'll hit with some of the picks. But I don't think time is running out considering his first pick turned 20 less than 6mnths ago, he has at least 2 more years before his picks should be taking over most of the spots on the Hawks. Until then, it's too soon. If we look at history or even present day around the league. No team has 12-15 of their own draft picks on their team. So I think what most are saying is that the Rangers, Kings etc all turned it around fairly quickly with trades FA. I think with modern day free agency, and young stars that are now being dealt yearly, it’s possible to start this summer and add to this roster for real this time. For example. Sign Marner this summer. Go hard after McTavish via trade. Try and trade for Oliver Wahlstrom. He’s been tied up in Long Island. No one scores there. So maybe it’s best to take a route like that. All those guys have decent size and only Marner breaks the bank. So I feel that would be a better way to go. Rather than over pay an aging vet that really just wants one more contract. There’s a litany of guys that are available every year. My worry is that KD is in love with his picks. He won’t part with them for something more ready or finished even. But if he does. He could build a much better team than he has scraping the bottom of the heap. Then if some of these picks start panning out. Hawks are in great shape. They could trade away older more expensive guys. Then “build from within” with the prospect pool. I think that’s a much better and safer plan!!! |
|
|
|
Post by OldTimeHawky on Nov 19, 2024 10:05:30 GMT -6
True they're taking a gamble when trading a proven asset so it's good KD got multiple picks in the first couple rounds for most of his assets. The odds are good they'll hit with some of the picks. But I don't think time is running out considering his first pick turned 20 less than 6mnths ago, he has at least 2 more years before his picks should be taking over most of the spots on the Hawks. Until then, it's too soon. If we look at history or even present day around the league. No team has 12-15 of their own draft picks on their team. So I think what most are saying is that the Rangers, Kings etc all turned it around fairly quickly with trades FA. I think with modern day free agency, and young stars that are now being dealt yearly, it’s possible to start this summer and add to this roster for real this time. For example. Sign Marner this summer. Go hard after McTavish via trade. Try and trade for Oliver Wahlstrom. He’s been tied up in Long Island. No one scores there. So maybe it’s best to take a route like that. All those guys have decent size and only Marner breaks the bank. So I feel that would be a better way to go. Rather than over pay an aging vet that really just wants one more contract. There’s a litany of guys that are available every year. My worry is that KD is in love with his picks. He won’t part with them for something more ready or finished even. But if he does. He could build a much better team than he has scraping the bottom of the heap. Then if some of these picks start panning out. Hawks are in great shape. They could trade away older more expensive guys. Then “build from within” with the prospect pool. I think that’s a much better and safer plan!!! If you look at history not many teams, if any, have had 8 first round picks in 3yrs, or 21 picks in the first 3 rounds. I never said the whole team would be made up of home grown picks, of course they need to make trades and sign a big free agent. But with the plethora of picks the past 3yrs this team should have enough guys to fill spots on every line. |
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Nov 19, 2024 10:56:10 GMT -6
If we look at history or even present day around the league. No team has 12-15 of their own draft picks on their team. So I think what most are saying is that the Rangers, Kings etc all turned it around fairly quickly with trades FA. I think with modern day free agency, and young stars that are now being dealt yearly, it’s possible to start this summer and add to this roster for real this time. For example. Sign Marner this summer. Go hard after McTavish via trade. Try and trade for Oliver Wahlstrom. He’s been tied up in Long Island. No one scores there. So maybe it’s best to take a route like that. All those guys have decent size and only Marner breaks the bank. So I feel that would be a better way to go. Rather than over pay an aging vet that really just wants one more contract. There’s a litany of guys that are available every year. My worry is that KD is in love with his picks. He won’t part with them for something more ready or finished even. But if he does. He could build a much better team than he has scraping the bottom of the heap. Then if some of these picks start panning out. Hawks are in great shape. They could trade away older more expensive guys. Then “build from within” with the prospect pool. I think that’s a much better and safer plan!!! If you look at history not many teams, if any, have had 8 first round picks in 3yrs, or 21 picks in the first 3 rounds. I never said the whole team would be made up of home grown picks, of course they need to make trades and sign a big free agent. But with the plethora of picks the past 3yrs this team should have enough guys to fill spots on every line. No one ever said you did. Just a conversation piece. You were talking in the other thread about Poulin. I agree. Try him out. He could been had for less than nothing off of waivers earlier. That’s the whole point here. Tallon constantly tried out other teams failed prospects. He tried out maybe 10 of them. He found Sharp, Ladd, Eager and maybe 1 or two more. Now, they weren’t failed by no means. But they obviously fell out of favour with their teams enough to be traded. KD has gotta start looking elsewhere, like I’ve stated, he’s not gonna fill the team with 12-15 guys through the draft. As of right now, there’s only 2 guys here long term, Vlasic and Seth. Next is Bertuzzi with 3 left. We’re gonna see massive turnover again. And again. I don’t see this getting better anytime soon. The picks may pan out. Right now I see 2 kids that have really taken the next step, Nazar and Rinzel are both having strong years. So I think it’d be best to bring in some younger kids from other orgs to see if you can find something. Worse case scenario, put em on waivers if it doesn’t work out. If he tries 10 out, and finds something with 2 of them, that’s pretty dam good!!! |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Nov 19, 2024 12:29:52 GMT -6
Yeah don’t see strome who was soft as shit here being any type of number 1 center He played on a soft team with a soft HC here.......have you paid any attention to the guy since he was left unqualified? |
|
|
|
Post by OldTimeHawky on Nov 19, 2024 13:18:53 GMT -6
I look at Frank Nazar and think about Brandon Pirri, who dominated the AHL at one point but never really made it. Nazar could emerge as a useful player, but he is a small guy with a big hill still to climb just to make it to the show. Pirri is a terrible comparison, and Pirris first season in the AHL he had 43pts in 70gms, Nazar is just over a point per game. He's a hard working 2way center, something Pirri never was. |
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 19, 2024 14:27:03 GMT -6
I think the comparison is valid though Nazar might have at this point a slightly higher floor. Both were small framed college kids drafted as centres .... although Pirri was a couple of inches taller.
By age 20, Pirri is producing close to a point a game in the AHL (56 points in 66 games). By 21, he is a point a game player (75 points in 76 games) which led the entire league that year.
My point is - What plays well in college and the AHL might not work in the AHL. Let's hope Nazar overcomes the odds and makes it. So many of these smaller prospects don't. If the offence does not translate to the NHL, small forwards without an exceptional checking game have very limited value.
Call me crazy, I would prefer to take my chances with 6'4" 220 plus pound skilled project like Dach every time even if he does not improve on his present floor. My feeling is that he needs a few more years to get fully acclimatized (like Dylan Strome). At worst, he can develop into an effective third line two way checker. He is already a half point/game forward (and we all know he is still struggling to get back into form after missing most of last year).
Davidson has made some highly questionable moves, but this is one of the big ones. We will see.... For this trade to work out, Nazar needs to be a second line centre who drives his line.
|
|
|
|
Post by nighbor on Nov 20, 2024 13:45:50 GMT -6
I think the comparison is valid though Nazar might have at this point a slightly higher floor. Both were small framed college kids drafted as centres .... although Pirri was a couple of inches taller. By age 20, Pirri is producing close to a point a game in the AHL (56 points in 66 games). By 21, he is a point a game player (75 points in 76 games) which led the entire league that year. My point is - What plays well in college and the AHL might not work in the AHL. Let's hope Nazar overcomes the odds and makes it. So many of these smaller prospects don't. If the offence does not translate to the NHL, small forwards without an exceptional checking game have very limited value. Call me crazy, I would prefer to take my chances with 6'4" 220 plus pound skilled project like Dach every time even if he does not improve on his present floor. My feeling is that he needs a few more years to get fully acclimatized (like Dylan Strome). At worst, he can develop into an effective third line two way checker. He is already a half point/game forward (and we all know he is still struggling to get back into form after missing most of last year). Davidson has made some highly questionable moves, but this is one of the big ones. We will see.... For this trade to work out, Nazar needs to be a second line centre who drives his line. Pirri was and is one dimentional and not elite. In year one Nazar so far is over a point a game. He plays on both the PP and PK. One podcaster has dubbed him Frank the Tank because he may be short but solid. The men on CHGO post game show thought that Nazar was ready to come up to provide offense. Nazar is not a perimeter player as he is not afraid to drive to the net and go to the dirty areas. |
|
