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Post by BigT on Jun 27, 2022 14:38:25 GMT -6
Ok folks. I don’t start many threads. This one is gonna be more fun than the last guys thread. I feel there will be much more to talk about in the positive light. There’s definitely dark days ahead. So let’s chat here about the moves that KD does!!!
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 27, 2022 16:56:44 GMT -6
Now we got 2.
You posted about 20 times in the original KD thread. : )
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jun 27, 2022 17:02:35 GMT -6
Same title as well lol might as well merge them. |
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Post by BigT on Jun 27, 2022 17:36:18 GMT -6
I didn’t know I made one? Or someone else? MVR was saying I should do it, and I thought what the hell. So ya, merge the 2!!!
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 27, 2022 17:42:08 GMT -6
I didn’t know I made one? Or someone else? MVR was saying I should do it, and I thought what the hell. So ya, merge the 2!!! I started on almost 4 months ago but like MVR suggested i should have given you the honour. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Jun 27, 2022 17:45:09 GMT -6
I didn’t know I made one? Or someone else? MVR was saying I should do it, and I thought what the hell. So ya, merge the 2!!! I started on almost 4 months ago but like MVR suggested i should have given you the honour. If you moved your thread into Big T's thread, then he would have the honor.  |
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Post by BigT on Jun 27, 2022 17:45:30 GMT -6
I didn’t know I made one? Or someone else? MVR was saying I should do it, and I thought what the hell. So ya, merge the 2!!! I started on almost 4 months ago but like MVR suggested i should have given you the honour. I don’t really care. KD looks to have a plan and I think there’ll be less bitching about him than Scambo. I’m glad someone else got the honour!!! |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 27, 2022 17:51:50 GMT -6
I started on almost 4 months ago but like MVR suggested i should have given you the honour. I don’t really care. KD looks to have a plan and I think there’ll be less bitching about him than Scambo. I’m glad someone else got the honour!!! Yeah. Didn't you hate that bitching? |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 27, 2022 17:55:19 GMT -6
I started on almost 4 months ago but like MVR suggested i should have given you the honour. If you moved your thread into Big T's thread, then he would have the honor. You're correct. I should've done that. It would be his thread by the title but his opening post would have still been on the last page i think. Oh well...i believe it's too late now. |
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Post by BigT on Jun 27, 2022 18:01:44 GMT -6
I don’t really care. KD looks to have a plan and I think there’ll be less bitching about him than Scambo. I’m glad someone else got the honour!!! Yeah. Didn't you hate that bitching? Only when it wasn’t warranted!!! |
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Post by steamer on Jun 27, 2022 19:01:11 GMT -6
Unfortunately most of the bitching was warranted. Someone posted a couple months ago that we can’t expect every single move to be perfect but man - KD’s every move will be analyzed under a microscope. The Luke pick appears to be liked so far (I like it) so hopefully the next few moves will be good ones too.
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Post by BigT on Jun 27, 2022 19:19:28 GMT -6
Unfortunately most of the bitching was warranted. Someone posted a couple months ago that we can’t expect every single move to be perfect but man - KD’s every move will be analyzed under a microscope. The Luke pick appears to be liked so far (I like it) so hopefully the next few moves will be good ones too. True. I can only speak for me here. If he makes moves that I don’t like or even if they fail. He’s gonna fail from time to time. But if the whole org is a practical jokers blown end piece on his cigar, can’t have that. Tallon had missed at the draft. He had bad trades. But look at the ones that really panned out. Sharp, Ladd, Bobby Lang, Havlat, Sammy Pahlsson, Versteeg, etc etc. he has more good than bad. That’s all we need to expect out of a GM!!! |
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Post by phill9 on Jun 27, 2022 20:09:48 GMT -6
Davidsons draft picks haven't done a damn thing yet!
There, I've started the bitching early, before his first draft lol
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Post by mvr on Jun 27, 2022 21:22:13 GMT -6
Sorry, Big T/Galaxy Trash. Did not remember this thread -- it has received so little use so far.
The Stan thread will be hard to beat. Two separate message boards.... a dozen years worth of vitriol (much from Big T and me in particular). Hundreds of pages of nastiness and personal attacks. The bean counter was so easy to hate. We all despised his trendy socks and know-it-all smirk.
This guy Davidson is how many months on the job so far, and all we have come up with is five pages worth.....? Seriously? Platitudes and compliments? We can do better.
As I wrote earlier, I don't like the job this company guy did at trade deadline. Fleury for a second. Not enough. Nothing for Dehaan. Gus. Strome. Kubalik. Clearly he misjudged the market and waited too long. When you play musical chairs at a birthday party, you need to make sure you have a seat.
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Post by steamer on Jun 29, 2022 18:14:29 GMT -6
I’m sure this thread will grow by many pages in short order! For the players you mentioned, not a lot of interest I suspect. Fleury is always a step from pulling the plug on his career; not sure there was a market 3 months ago for DeHaan and Gus who couldn’t make most of the playoff teams; but you have a point on Strome and Kubalik who perhaps should have been able to fetch something.
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Post by mvr on Jun 30, 2022 5:43:18 GMT -6
At trade deadline, all teams fighting for playoff positions are under great pressure to make deals.
The Canadian sports channels cover the deadline the entire day. Each general manager knows he must step to the podium and answer the press. There are only a few legit contenders each year, and the general managers all know this. But they are also see value in being active. Many deals are really just window dressing - public relations gestures to advertise the product.
To my mind, there were deals out there. Davidson should have managed to get at bare minimum a 4th rounder for DeHaan (with retention) and Kubalik, and perhaps a 6th for Gus. Strome was worth perhaps even a bit more.
But to make these kinds of trades, Davidson needed to recognize the market and act earlier in the day/week, before the options dried up. In a garage sale, you take what you can get.
Regarding Fleury - I believe the general manager got hung up on getting back the first round pick which limited his options. If he had considered focusing on quantity (ie two or three mid-round picks instead), I believe he would have found more suiters. Surely some team might have considered offering a late second and a couple of third rounders.
After the first 10-15 picks in a typical draft, the order of selection matters less with each pick. More picks in a lottery improves the odds.
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Post by BigT on Jun 30, 2022 6:31:13 GMT -6
Fleury would only go to a few certain teams. His hands were tied. He had an agreement with the last guy that he wanted upheld. Rightfully so. It sucks when that’s the only option. I believe KD got all he could on that one.
I also feel he should look at the option of trading Dcat for the sole purpose of getting a top 3 pick next year. The Hawks need a franchise player. And the top three are looking that way.
Even if they were to get #2, Foote and that Dman Mohamadoulin(sp). I’d probably do that. There’s a chance that Shane Wright could be sitting at two. Even if he tops out at a 2nd line player that’s a Patrice Bergeron clone. Perfect. Or even Cooley looks to be a solid player too.
So I think the Hawks and fans need to look at that trade as #2, Foote and the other dman PLUS a top 3 in next years draft is worth Dcat. I know it’s a bit jaded to look at things like that. But that’s the reality now.
I don’t want to just unload players for the sake of it. But we really have to look at next years draft more than anything!!!
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Post by mvr on Jun 30, 2022 6:49:22 GMT -6
Re Fleury - Big T. You are right in pointing out that Fleury did control his destiny, which certainly impacted the trade discussions.
But let's remember, he did go to Minnesota. Would that location be any player's first or even second choice? Would it have been in his top ten?
My guess is that there were many other teams higher on the player's list. I suspect Fleury was willing to compromise. I also believe many teams were inquiring, but no other g.m. was willing to offer a first round pick.
Davidson wanted that first round pick. He gambled with Minnesota and the conditional first, and it did not pay off.
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Post by BigT on Jun 30, 2022 7:08:29 GMT -6
Re Fleury - Big T. You are right in pointing out that Fleury did control his destiny, which certainly impacted the trade discussions. But let's remember, he did go to Minnesota. Would that location be any player's first or even second choice? Would it have been in his top ten? My guess is that there were many other teams higher on the player's list. I suspect Fleury was willing to compromise. I also believe many teams were inquiring, but no other g.m. was willing to offer a first round pick. Davidson wanted that first round pick. He gambled with Minnesota and the conditional first, and it did not pay off. Actually Fluery and Guerin are great friends. And that’s the only reason why he went there. Guerin talked him into coming. Plus his family wasn’t far in Chicago. They could easily visit him, and he could visit them. He didn’t want to go to a team far away. I think here in this situation. KD got the best he could. He really did. I do agree with the trading of deHaan. He had too high of an expectation. Kubalik is worth keeping at this point. Get him back on track then trade him. He has little to no value as of now!!! |
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Post by mvr on Jun 30, 2022 7:11:57 GMT -6
Re Debrincat trade: I agree with you, Big T. A high first plus a few quality pieces makes sense if NJ is willing. Another option to add to your package is Stillman's young brother, Chase, a first round pick from last year.
Beyond the return, however, the other big asset coming back is that long term cap space. Having that extra $8-9 M/year to play with seven or eight years from now is the real key for me.
I am not counting on getting that high pick next year after tanking. Too much can happen. We do know the Hawks also certainly will be picking in the top ten for a few years moving forward. Eventually, they will hit on a few quality core assets, and they will need that cap space then to lock them up as the rebuild nears completion.
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Post by mvr on Jun 30, 2022 7:19:45 GMT -6
Re Fleury - Big T. You are right in pointing out that Fleury did control his destiny, which certainly impacted the trade discussions. But let's remember, he did go to Minnesota. Would that location be any player's first or even second choice? Would it have been in his top ten? My guess is that there were many other teams higher on the player's list. I suspect Fleury was willing to compromise. I also believe many teams were inquiring, but no other g.m. was willing to offer a first round pick. Davidson wanted that first round pick. He gambled with Minnesota and the conditional first, and it did not pay off. Actually Fluery and Guerin are great friends. And that’s the only reason why he went there. Guerin talked him into coming. Plus his family wasn’t far in Chicago. They could easily visit him, and he could visit them. He didn’t want to go to a team far away. I think here in this situation. KD got the best he could. He really did. I do agree with the trading of deHaan. He had too high of an expectation. Kubalik is worth keeping at this point. Get him back on track then trade him. He has little to no value as of now!!! I understand that part of it with Fleury. But we are talking about St. Paul. We will see if Fleury re-signs there. My guess is he will not. Minnesota is not a contender. Fleury is approaching the end of his career. He wants another shot at a cup. Re Kubalik - Perhaps if you trade Debrincat, Kubalik does rebound. I do believe Kubalik given first-line powerplay minutes as the primary shooter is good for 30 goals. But do you offer him arbitration at this point? I thought he was overpaid last year. Retaining him on a one year deal I guess would not be the end of the world. |
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Post by Nikos on Jun 30, 2022 7:42:13 GMT -6
I know some of these proposed trades/rumors with NJ, Buffalo, Philly, Detroit & LA (probably no longer an option with the Fiala trade), have been discussed and debated, but GMs most likely are not going to give up their high-end prospects in IMO. These are valuable assets with cost control and low cap hits.
Look at the Fiala trade, no Clarke, Byfield, Turcotte (yes, I know some here do not like him), Kaliyev, Kupari, or Durzi, do not know much about Brock Fabor (rated 8th in the prospect pool back in 2021) and only 1st round pick. Sure KD can ask for three firsts and a young player who would play this year. I just do not see like NJ giving Luke Hughes or even Holtz, if they offer their number #2 overall that is almost like getting 2 first round picks. Same with Buffalo most likely you will not be able to pry Quinn, Peterka or Rosen.
I am sure that KD understands this just hope he does not set the bar so high for Debricant that he is left standing and then panics and makes a deal to just make a deal. KD needs to build relationships with the other GMs and make FAIR deals. This will help in the future when dealing with the same GMs which you either discussed or made deals.
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Post by 2old4this on Jun 30, 2022 8:26:16 GMT -6
I know some of these proposed trades/rumors with NJ, Buffalo, Philly, Detroit & LA (probably no longer an option with the Fiala trade), have been discussed and debated, but GMs most likely are not going to give up their high-end prospects in IMO. These are valuable assets with cost control and low cap hits. Look at the Fiala trade, no Clarke, Byfield, Turcotte (yes, I know some here do not like him), Kaliyev, Kupari, or Durzi, do not know much about Brock Fabor (rated 8th in the prospect pool back in 2021) and only 1st round pick. Sure KD can ask for three firsts and a young player who would play this year. I just do not see like NJ giving Luke Hughes or even Holtz, if they offer their number #2 overall that is almost like getting 2 first round picks. Same with Buffalo most likely you will not be able to pry Quinn, Peterka or Rosen. I am sure that KD understands this just hope he does not set the bar so high for Debricant that he is left standing and then panics and makes a deal to just make a deal. KD needs to build relationships with the other GMs and make FAIR deals. This will help in the future when dealing with the same GMs which you either discussed or made deals. I feel fairly confident that KD won't make a trade just to make a trade, and will resist lowering his asking price more than what he has built in for negotiation. I hope I have read him right! |
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Post by hsbob on Jun 30, 2022 10:09:15 GMT -6
I think the new FO and HC that most of us have more faith in are stepping back and taking a serious look at Alex DeBrincat's first five seasons in the league and they see.....
A 19yro enter the league and play em all for Q,putting up a solid 28/52 rookie season
Year two finds the 20yro seeing his HC fired 15 games in resulting in a sophomore slump? Hardly,played em all again putting up a 6th best 41gls and 35 helpers to go along.
Don't get me started on his 70gm Covid shortened 3rd season on Harry Potter's 3rd line.
Year four PROVES the folly of year three with the kid bouncing back with a FURRY,another Covid shortened,56 game season that saw him missing his only four games EVER due to Covid protocol......it also saw a 50 goal 88 point pace! His 32 tally's in only 52 games is 3rd best in the league.
Year five absolutely cements his ability to drive offense,tying his 41gl career high and setting a new one for assists.
He has played with good linemates but not all the time and one year he played with poor quality linemates.
He's played on uncompetitive teams in all five years.
He's yet to miss a game to injury and I believe his durability adds value.
He takes FEW penalties.
He's also been asked to chip-in on the PK and it's rare to see top goal scorers doing so.
His intangibles like attitude and outright exuberance are also top notch......teams will have to pay for this 24yro proven elite player.
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Post by Nikos on Jun 30, 2022 11:32:51 GMT -6
KD needs to make fair deals, he should not be in the business to try to rip off other teams or set ridiculous asking prices, that will not earn him any trust going forward with the GMs. He is a rookie and at a time where he is trying to build relationships and trust he needs to be flexible, reasonable and willing partner to do business with now and in the future.
Hsbob: I agree with your sentiment of Debrincat, the value you are placing on the Cat and the return should be much better than Fiala, I just do not see teams giving up their top high-end prospects, draft choices yes and secondary prospects most likely. Is that enough, time will tell.
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Post by T-man2010 on Jun 30, 2022 11:58:03 GMT -6
I think the new FO and HC that most of us have more faith in are stepping back and taking a serious look at Alex DeBrincat's first five seasons in the league and they see..... A 19yro enter the league and play em all for Q,putting up a solid 28/52 rookie season Year two finds the 20yro seeing his HC fired 15 games in resulting in a sophomore slump? Hardly,played em all again putting up a 6th best 41gls and 35 helpers to go along. Don't get me started on his 70gm Covid shortened 3rd season on Harry Potter's 3rd line. Year four PROVES the folly of year three with the kid bouncing back with a FURRY,another Covid shortened,56 game season that saw him missing his only four games EVER due to Covid protocol......it also saw a 50 goal 88 point pace! His 32 tally's in only 52 games is 3rd best in the league. Year five absolutely cements his ability to drive offense,tying his 41gl career high and setting a new one for assists. He has played with good linemates but not all the time and one year he played with poor quality linemates. He's played on uncompetitive teams in all five years. He's yet to miss a game to injury and I believe his durability adds value. He takes FEW penalties. He's also been asked to chip-in on the PK and it's rare to see top goal scorers doing so. His intangibles like attitude and outright exuberance are also top notch......teams will have to pay for this 24yro proven elite player. All your points on Dcat are the reasons his trade value is at its highest. He is the key to another team reaching the upper level. The Hawks are not even up to the bottom level yet. 3-4 years away minimum. By the time the Hawks are at that level where they need a player like him, he'll be 28-29. Why waste the kid away in the cess pool that will be the Hawks the next few seasons? He needs to shine on the big stage playoffs. He'll be legendary. He won't get that here right now. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 1, 2022 8:25:30 GMT -6
I think the new FO and HC that most of us have more faith in are stepping back and taking a serious look at Alex DeBrincat's first five seasons in the league and they see..... A 19yro enter the league and play em all for Q,putting up a solid 28/52 rookie season Year two finds the 20yro seeing his HC fired 15 games in resulting in a sophomore slump? Hardly,played em all again putting up a 6th best 41gls and 35 helpers to go along. Don't get me started on his 70gm Covid shortened 3rd season on Harry Potter's 3rd line. Year four PROVES the folly of year three with the kid bouncing back with a FURRY,another Covid shortened,56 game season that saw him missing his only four games EVER due to Covid protocol......it also saw a 50 goal 88 point pace! His 32 tally's in only 52 games is 3rd best in the league. Year five absolutely cements his ability to drive offense,tying his 41gl career high and setting a new one for assists. He has played with good linemates but not all the time and one year he played with poor quality linemates. He's played on uncompetitive teams in all five years. He's yet to miss a game to injury and I believe his durability adds value. He takes FEW penalties. He's also been asked to chip-in on the PK and it's rare to see top goal scorers doing so. His intangibles like attitude and outright exuberance are also top notch......teams will have to pay for this 24yro proven elite player. All your points on Dcat are the reasons his trade value is at its highest. He is the key to another team reaching the upper level. The Hawks are not even up to the bottom level yet. 3-4 years away minimum. By the time the Hawks are at that level where they need a player like him, he'll be 28-29. Why waste the kid away in the cess pool that will be the Hawks the next few seasons? He needs to shine on the big stage playoffs. He'll be legendary. He won't get that here right now. I couldn't agree more,I'm just rationalizing why the team wants a big return,I'm sure Maciver has had input too. If D-Cat just plays the 42 games lost to Covid,his average goals per year go from 35-40 (82gms) at his career pace. I'm sure a defensive minded HC like Richarson knows the value of an elite goal scorer also. He has to yearn for more watching the PO's every spring,I look forward to the kid playing out what'll be one hell of a career elsewhere......just statin' his REAL value. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 1, 2022 8:28:54 GMT -6
KD needs to make fair deals, he should not be in the business to try to rip off other teams or set ridiculous asking prices, that will not earn him any trust going forward with the GMs. He is a rookie and at a time where he is trying to build relationships and trust he needs to be flexible, reasonable and willing partner to do business with now and in the future. Hsbob: I agree with your sentiment of Debrincat, the value you are placing on the Cat and the return should be much better than Fiala, I just do not see teams giving up their top high-end prospects, draft choices yes and secondary prospects most likely. Is that enough, time will tell. Depends how close a team is....'a bird in hand is worth two in the bush'......unless all those top-end prospects are guaranteed to be better than Alex DeBrincat. |
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Post by Nikos on Jul 1, 2022 9:10:47 GMT -6
KD needs to make fair deals, he should not be in the business to try to rip off other teams or set ridiculous asking prices, that will not earn him any trust going forward with the GMs. He is a rookie and at a time where he is trying to build relationships and trust he needs to be flexible, reasonable and willing partner to do business with now and in the future. Hsbob: I agree with your sentiment of Debrincat, the value you are placing on the Cat and the return should be much better than Fiala, I just do not see teams giving up their top high-end prospects, draft choices yes and secondary prospects most likely. Is that enough, time will tell. Depends how close a team is....'a bird in hand is worth two in the bush'......unless all those top-end prospects are guaranteed to be better than Alex DeBrincat. No guarantees my friend with future picks for sure and to a certain degree prospects as well. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jul 1, 2022 9:56:53 GMT -6
Depends how close a team is....'a bird in hand is worth two in the bush'......unless all those top-end prospects are guaranteed to be better than Alex DeBrincat. No guarantees my friend with future picks for sure and to a certain degree prospects as well. That's the gamble, Debrincats an elite player at 24 and the players coming back are unknown, but high end picks and prospects have a better chance at being a star or an elite player. So I can see why KD is asking for a lot but he has to start high, it's unrealistic so hopefully he's not firm. I can only imagine what the last guy started with in negotiations, but that's for another thread. |
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