30
|
|
Post by vadarx on Nov 6, 2022 13:35:04 GMT -6
I think it would be best to put Toews and Kane on the same line to pad their stats in case they are going to be moved. After that, anything goes on the other lines, and having only one good line would help with the tank too. 19 is doing just fine where he is. 88 doesn't need to pad anything for someone to want him. I agreed earlier in the season with this idea to help 19 look more appealing at the deadline, but now I think leave em where they are. |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Nov 7, 2022 9:28:41 GMT -6
Some may argue that the "temp fill" added this year was of too high quality for a rebuild. Are Domi, Johnson, Dickinson and AA spoiling this team's "tank"? My feeling is that Davidson wanted to add some quality players to surround his most valuable trade assets (Toews and Kane). Without Domi and AA, my guess is that Kane's numbers sharply drop. Dickenson and Lafferty's presence has allowed the coaching staff to redefine Toews' role, giving him many more scoring situations to pad his numbers. Davidson does not want to create hard feelings with the core veteran stars. He needs them onboard. Should Kane and Toews both leave this year (and choose not to re-sign) my guess is that Davidson adds lesser players next summer as "temp fill." The "tank" then will be fully on. 'Tank hard for Bedard' wasn't only the mantra all summer....it was practically a 'Gregorian chant' echoing throughout the boards but now 'tank' is a bad word,any good pick next year'll do this coming summer and we always have the next draft........seems we ALWAYS have the NEXT draft......doesn't it? |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Nov 7, 2022 9:42:03 GMT -6
I think it would be best to put Toews and Kane on the same line to pad their stats in case they are going to be moved. After that, anything goes on the other lines, and having only one good line would help with the tank too. 19 is doing just fine where he is. 88 doesn't need to pad anything for someone to want him. I agreed earlier in the season with this idea to help 19 look more appealing at the deadline, but now I think leave em where they are. JT's healthy and in shape and the result is,he's finishing his chances and winning draws at a near career best 59.6% but he only has 2 helpers so far even though he continues to set his linemates up.......his linemates have 30 career NHL goals between em,sooo.......good luck with that. JT's only recently started to see #1 PP minutes and he and Kane together would definitely help each other immensely. It's hard to risk it though with 12 teams behind us in the standings. |
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Nov 7, 2022 10:11:54 GMT -6
19 is doing just fine where he is. 88 doesn't need to pad anything for someone to want him. I agreed earlier in the season with this idea to help 19 look more appealing at the deadline, but now I think leave em where they are. JT's healthy and in shape and the result is,he's finishing his chances and winning draws at a near career best 59.6% but he only has 2 helpers so far even though he continues to set his linemates up.......his linemates have 30 career NHL goals between em,sooo.......good luck with that. JT's only recently started to see #1 PP minutes and he and Kane together would definitely help each other immensely. It's hard to risk it though with 12 teams behind us in the standings. he's gonna have to play without him eventually (hopefully), so I don't see any reason to bother with it now. Tazer is enjoying himself thus far, he doesn't need Kane's help. it was overdue for the 1st pp time, though. I hope they keep him there the rest of the season (and beyond). and just to clarify the "hopefully", I mean he hopefully stays in Chicago and leads the rebuild. I don't see 88 doing so (staying), but if he does, even better... |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Nov 7, 2022 10:24:31 GMT -6
In the 2006-2007 season the Hawks were tied for the 5th worst team in the NHL and got lucky in the lottery draw and got #1 pick. (Kane) So they don't have to finish the worst team with the worst record to get Bedard or the other kid. There's some bad teams in the game who are very aware of what's at stake next summer and even 5th worse sounds like waiting for lightning to strike again but lighting striking is the only way a Chicago team can win a title so maybe. I believe you also lived through all 23 years of zero titles for sports' 2nd biggest market with FIVE major teams(63-86) before lightning struck every one of em. If the Bulls have the 1st or 2nd pick in '84' they probably don't take Jordan either and the team would still be looking for it's first title. The Hawks were also extremely fortunate to move up from 5th to get Kane and even more so to have JT still there @3d the year before or the Hawks would be 63 years and counting and counting and counting. Jerry Vainisi drafted well but there was lighting in the form of the best ever,one year defensive squad that dominated and intimidated the entire league for their only SB title 36 years ago.........only to make ONE other SB appearance 16 years ago. 'Theo' did build a team that had the best run in Chicago BB history and the Sox team in '05' was put together pretty well too,losing only once in the '05' PO's for their 'one and done' WS wins but the mathematical odds alone were lighting after 108 years and 88 years respectively. And all I got now is watching Kyle Schwarber win the National league HR crown and blast em a mile in the WS for another team. Darvish and Rizzo also helped their new teams reach their league championship series. Bulls never,Bears 23 years removed,Hawks 49 years removed,Sox 88 and the Cubs 108 years removed from their previous titles........all five were overdue to say the least. |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Nov 7, 2022 11:06:25 GMT -6
JT's healthy and in shape and the result is,he's finishing his chances and winning draws at a near career best 59.6% but he only has 2 helpers so far even though he continues to set his linemates up.......his linemates have 30 career NHL goals between em,sooo.......good luck with that. JT's only recently started to see #1 PP minutes and he and Kane together would definitely help each other immensely. It's hard to risk it though with 12 teams behind us in the standings. he's gonna have to play without him eventually (hopefully), so I don't see any reason to bother with it now. Tazer is enjoying himself thus far, he doesn't need Kane's help. it was overdue for the 1st pp time, though. I hope they keep him there the rest of the season (and beyond). and just to clarify the "hopefully", I mean he hopefully stays in Chicago and leads the rebuild. I don't see 88 doing so (staying), but if he does, even better... I'm doing my best to pivot once again but I'm getting less flexible and athletic by the day......LOL. I heard 'get rid of DeBrincat to piss Kane off'(done) and a young,losing team(not done)will have little interest to the two and possible Jones as well and the haul with retained money could be BIG and NEEDED.....but let me try another pivot and please wish my old hips well!LOL! Kane will be 37 in three years and JT'll be 38 and even older if the rebuild takes longer as suggested.......I'm no longer sure what they'll be leading until all the future phenoms are ready but they will sell tickets and jerseys for 'The Family' if they stay and that's as big a factor to 'The Family' as any. Did 'blow it up','tear it down' and 'bite the bullet' really just include losing the team's best young and easiest traded players while keeping all the highest paid and oldest? |
|
|
|
Post by LordKOTL on Nov 7, 2022 12:07:47 GMT -6
he's gonna have to play without him eventually (hopefully), so I don't see any reason to bother with it now. Tazer is enjoying himself thus far, he doesn't need Kane's help. it was overdue for the 1st pp time, though. I hope they keep him there the rest of the season (and beyond). and just to clarify the "hopefully", I mean he hopefully stays in Chicago and leads the rebuild. I don't see 88 doing so (staying), but if he does, even better... I'm doing my best to pivot once again but I'm getting less flexible and athletic by the day......LOL. I heard 'get rid of DeBrincat to piss Kane off'(done) and a young,losing team(not done)will have little interest to the two and possible Jones as well and the haul with retained money could be BIG and NEEDED.....but let me try another pivot and please wish my old hips well!LOL! Kane will be 37 in three years and JT'll be 38 and even older if the rebuild takes longer as suggested.......I'm no longer sure what they'll be leading until all the future phenoms are ready but they will sell tickets and jerseys for 'The Family' if they stay and that's as big a factor to 'The Family' as any. Did 'blow it up','tear it down' and 'bite the bullet' really just include losing the team's best young and easiest traded players while keeping all the highest paid and oldest? If Kane and Toews didn't want to move... Seriously though, I think the team has been overreaching early. In 2009-2010 Colorado started out 9-1-2 after 12 games, and bottomed out as 28th out of 30. There is a ton of season to go and we're sitting at .500 here. Toews' shooting% is 30.4; that's GOING to come down. I think the team should start bottoming out by game 20 as other teams start to look at what the 'hawks gameplans are and compensate. |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Nov 7, 2022 13:12:07 GMT -6
I'm doing my best to pivot once again but I'm getting less flexible and athletic by the day......LOL. I heard 'get rid of DeBrincat to piss Kane off'(done) and a young,losing team(not done)will have little interest to the two and possible Jones as well and the haul with retained money could be BIG and NEEDED.....but let me try another pivot and please wish my old hips well!LOL! Kane will be 37 in three years and JT'll be 38 and even older if the rebuild takes longer as suggested.......I'm no longer sure what they'll be leading until all the future phenoms are ready but they will sell tickets and jerseys for 'The Family' if they stay and that's as big a factor to 'The Family' as any. Did 'blow it up','tear it down' and 'bite the bullet' really just include losing the team's best young and easiest traded players while keeping all the highest paid and oldest? If Kane and Toews didn't want to move... Seriously though, I think the team has been overreaching early. In 2009-2010 Colorado started out 9-1-2 after 12 games, and bottomed out as 28th out of 30. There is a ton of season to go and we're sitting at .500 here. Toews' shooting% is 30.4; that's GOING to come down. I think the team should start bottoming out by game 20 as other teams start to look at what the 'hawks gameplans are and compensate. A lot of things WILL revert to their norms as the year progresses and teams make their 'book' on opponents as you correctly point out,as they always do but a HC as determined as LR and the number of desperate,hungry veterans concern me.......until they don't I guess. |
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 7, 2022 13:33:21 GMT -6
Some may argue that the "temp fill" added this year was of too high quality for a rebuild. Are Domi, Johnson, Dickinson and AA spoiling this team's "tank"? My feeling is that Davidson wanted to add some quality players to surround his most valuable trade assets (Toews and Kane). Without Domi and AA, my guess is that Kane's numbers sharply drop. Dickenson and Lafferty's presence has allowed the coaching staff to redefine Toews' role, giving him many more scoring situations to pad his numbers. Davidson does not want to create hard feelings with the core veteran stars. He needs them onboard. Should Kane and Toews both leave this year (and choose not to re-sign) my guess is that Davidson adds lesser players next summer as "temp fill." The "tank" then will be fully on. 'Tank hard for Bedard' wasn't only the mantra all summer....it was practically a 'Gregorian chant' echoing throughout the boards but now 'tank' is a bad word,any good pick next year'll do this coming summer and we always have the next draft........seems we ALWAYS have the NEXT draft......doesn't it? I was never strumming along to that song. The likelihood of a team tanking managing to get that first pick is low. The odds are not good. First, the team has to finish near the bottom of the standings. Other teams are tanking as well. Second, the team has to win the lottery. The odds of winning that top pick are low even if the team finishes dead last. So forget Bedard. If it happens, great. But it is not a likely outcome. As it stands, the Hawks are loading up on high picks. They drafted several last year, and many more are coming. Cumulatively, they should all emerge at roughly the same time four or five years from now. Eventually, there will be enough young players with talent to build a team. Hockey teams are not going to win with one or two stars. especially in the cap world. it is much better to have a team loaded with depth and talent up and down the lineup. I used to play Monopoly often as a kid. So many people build around those high-value blue and green properties (Boardwalk/Park Place) It is a bad strategy. The odds of landing on Boardwalk are low. Players are much more likely to land on those low-rent properties closer to the front of the boards and the railroads. Almost always, the winner is the player who builds the biggest portfolio and generates the highest cash flow. |
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 7, 2022 13:44:49 GMT -6
I would be very happy with a top five or six pick this year. The team already has a second 1st round pick (Tampa's) which might be a top 20 pick.
The return for Kane and Toews (should both decide to leave) should provide the team with at bare minimum another two or three very high picks over the next couple of years. Lafferty's value is trending higher and will get the team a pick in the top 90. I believe Murphy has value to a contender this year. Ditto Max Domi and AA.
Tyler Johnson next year will be on the trade market. So will McCabe and Dickinson and some of the UFAs signed next summer to one year deals.
Davidson also should be able to add some additional picks by taking on some bad contracts.
My point is that Bedard is just one player. There will be a ton of high end picks coming over the next couple of years.
Let's also remember - the team will be bad and have three or more drafts with very high first round picks.
|
|
|
|
Post by 2old4this on Nov 7, 2022 13:46:58 GMT -6
I'm trying to understand how hockey is like monopoly, and it just eludes me.
Gretsky was just one player too.
|
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 7, 2022 13:49:39 GMT -6
I'm trying to understand how hockey is like monopoly, and it just eludes me. Mathematical odds. Building with a lottery ticket vs. a diverse portfolio of assets. |
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 7, 2022 13:54:50 GMT -6
Let's say the Hawks won the lottery and got Bedard. The best approach at this early stage in a rebuild might be to trade down a few picks and add more assets. Putting all the "eggs" in a single basket is a recipe for failure.
|
|
|
|
Post by 2old4this on Nov 7, 2022 13:55:50 GMT -6
I'm trying to understand how hockey is like monopoly, and it just eludes me. Mathematical odds. Building with a lottery ticket vs. a diverse portfolio of assets. Of course you need a diverse portfolio of assets. The Hawks don't win any cups without Toews, Kaner, or Hossa. Nobody I know of believes a franchise player is sufficient to win a championship. But it's an awefully nice asset to build a winner around. |
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 7, 2022 14:10:55 GMT -6
The Hawks also needed guys like Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Crawford, Shaw, Bickell, Sharp etc.....
It is no coincidence that the team remained successful only until the two star players received their UFA "franchise player" contracts.
The generational talent, McDavid, so far at least, has won nothing.
In a tight cap world, it is preferable to have several very good players on reasonable contracts than one or two exceptional ones on large contracts.
|
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 7, 2022 14:15:19 GMT -6
Years ago, Quebec won the lottery and drafted Eric Lindros, considered the heir apparent.
Lindros would not sign. Quebec traded his rights and received a huge haul, including a young Swede named Peter Forsberg. A few years later, the franchise now in Denver had a parade.
Lindros was a star for a few years in Phily, but he never won anything.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nikos on Nov 7, 2022 14:27:54 GMT -6
I'm trying to understand how hockey is like monopoly, and it just eludes me.
Gretsky was just one player too.
Messier, Kurri, Anderson, Coffey Fuhr, and even Moog, MacTavish we not bad. |
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Nov 7, 2022 14:48:55 GMT -6
The Oilers had such incredible depth up and down the lineup - a freak circumstance after the WHA merger.
Gretzky was good. But he was just one.
The team won a final cup without him in Edmonton, and then the core won another without him while in NYC (under the Rangers banner).
|
|
|
|
Post by 2old4this on Nov 7, 2022 15:17:33 GMT -6
A high draft pick means you are drafting high in each and every round. That's where your depth comes from. Trades fill in the gaps.
If the Hawks finish up with average draft picks, they will be doomed to be an average team, perpetually drafting in the middle. I have no idea where the Hawks will end up, but I am hoping they get high draft picks for the next few years. If they manage to get a franchise player, or even a generational player, so much the better.
|
|
|
|
Post by galaxytrash on Nov 7, 2022 15:29:25 GMT -6
In the 2006-2007 season the Hawks were tied for the 5th worst team in the NHL and got lucky in the lottery draw and got #1 pick. (Kane) So they don't have to finish the worst team with the worst record to get Bedard or the other kid. "lucky" is the key to a #1 pick. unless they've changed the rules, a team can go 0-82-0 and still own a less than 1 in 5 chance to pick first overall. 18.5% are your chances. 5th place your chances drop down to less than 1 in 10 at 8.5%. dead last is the place to be but nothing's guaranteed obviously. so we're lucky to be playing our 4th string goalie i guess. |
|
|
|
Post by T-man2010 on Nov 7, 2022 16:08:08 GMT -6
In the 2006-2007 season the Hawks were tied for the 5th worst team in the NHL and got lucky in the lottery draw and got #1 pick. (Kane) So they don't have to finish the worst team with the worst record to get Bedard or the other kid. "lucky" is the key to a #1 pick. unless they've changed the rules, a team can go 0-82-0 and still own a less than 1 in 5 chance to pick first overall. 18.5% are your chances. 5th place your chances drop down to less than 1 in 10 at 8.5%. dead last is the place to be but nothing's guaranteed obviously. so we're lucky to be playing our 4th string goalie i guess. Mrazk is back now. |
|
|
|
Post by galaxytrash on Nov 7, 2022 16:12:25 GMT -6
"lucky" is the key to a #1 pick. unless they've changed the rules, a team can go 0-82-0 and still own a less than 1 in 5 chance to pick first overall. 18.5% are your chances. 5th place your chances drop down to less than 1 in 10 at 8.5%. dead last is the place to be but nothing's guaranteed obviously. so we're lucky to be playing our 4th string goalie i guess. Mrazk is back now. yep. and wells was waived. |
|
|
|
Post by LordKOTL on Nov 7, 2022 17:42:01 GMT -6
If Kane and Toews didn't want to move... Seriously though, I think the team has been overreaching early. In 2009-2010 Colorado started out 9-1-2 after 12 games, and bottomed out as 28th out of 30. There is a ton of season to go and we're sitting at .500 here. Toews' shooting% is 30.4; that's GOING to come down. I think the team should start bottoming out by game 20 as other teams start to look at what the 'hawks gameplans are and compensate. A lot of things WILL revert to their norms as the year progresses and teams make their 'book' on opponents as you correctly point out,as they always do but a HC as determined as LR and the number of desperate,hungry veterans concern me.......until they don't I guess. The real question is, "where's the talent?" LR and some of the vets have drive, but who among them are gamebreakers? Kane? Sure. Toews? I won't count him out. Jones? Maybe. But even those three are not enough to be good, or in my opinion, even middling. Both Mrazek and Stalock are career .909 tenders, with Jones as our best D-man (who couldn't hold a candle to Keith, Seabrook, or Hjammer defensively), who else we got? Not much, to be honest. I could be wrong though. They could be like the inaugural Vegas team and catch lightning in jar, but I'm not getting that vibe. The drive is a breath of fresh air, but if we look at the cup winning teams, where would some of these guys be in those lineups? Mostly depth, to be honest, if even that. mvr is right in that there's a lot of other teams trying to tank, and the lottery mixes things up. But, we did have some higher picks in the process, and this is a process and will take a few years. We *might* (emphasis there) have something already in Korch, but who knows. It will take some high picks to round out the roster, even if it isn't Bedard. I do think that getting the processes and game plan down now is a good thing, rather than JC'ing it up for the next few years. This way guys like Korch and Nazar have a system to build up to, rather than just being 19 guys skating and some dude in net. |
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Nov 11, 2022 23:22:24 GMT -6
Lotta injuries around the league. Hopefully KD can move out some guys soon and gain some ground on the 8 teams below the Hawks. Is Columbus gonna try and save their season? Werenski is done for the year. Maybe they try and add in someone like Murphy or McCabe? Both have term, which I’m guessing the BJs would want. I doubt they’re in rebuild mode any more. So I’d look to move one of those two, and give Mitchell a shot. Gotta get the tank going!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by phill9 on Nov 12, 2022 8:46:08 GMT -6
Lotta injuries around the league. Hopefully KD can move out some guys soon and gain some ground on the 8 teams below the Hawks. Is Columbus gonna try and save their season? Werenski is done for the year. Maybe they try and add in someone like Murphy or McCabe? Both have term, which I’m guessing the BJs would want. I doubt they’re in rebuild mode any more. So I’d look to move one of those two, and give Mitchell a shot. Gotta get the tank going!!! Unfortunately every move that KD has made seems to have improved the team, from hiring a competent head coach to signing guys like Domi and Happytoseeyou. He's failing miserably so far at failing miserably  |
|
|
|
Post by 2old4this on Nov 12, 2022 10:46:39 GMT -6
Lotta injuries around the league. Hopefully KD can move out some guys soon and gain some ground on the 8 teams below the Hawks. Is Columbus gonna try and save their season? Werenski is done for the year. Maybe they try and add in someone like Murphy or McCabe? Both have term, which I’m guessing the BJs would want. I doubt they’re in rebuild mode any more. So I’d look to move one of those two, and give Mitchell a shot. Gotta get the tank going!!! Unfortunately every move that KD has made seems to have improved the team, from hiring a competent head coach to signing guys like Domi and Happytoseeyou. He's failing miserably so far at failing miserably Domi and Happytoseeyou will be gone at the TDL, hopefully for 1st and 2nd round draft picks. The goalie situation is of more concern to me. |
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Nov 12, 2022 10:48:29 GMT -6
Unfortunately every move that KD has made seems to have improved the team, from hiring a competent head coach to signing guys like Domi and Happytoseeyou. He's failing miserably so far at failing miserably Domi and Happytoseeyou will be gone at the TDL, hopefully for 1st and 2nd round draft picks. The goalie situation is of more concern to me. if he gets even a 2nd for either of those two, he should be given an extension... |
|
|
|
Post by Nikos on Nov 12, 2022 10:53:45 GMT -6
Domi and Happytoseeyou will be gone at the TDL, hopefully for 1st and 2nd round draft picks. The goalie situation is of more concern to me. if he gets even a 2nd for either of those two, he should be given an extension... Doubt he gets a second for either, probably a 3rd or 4th would be my best guess right now. |
|
|
|
Post by 2old4this on Nov 12, 2022 11:03:28 GMT -6
if he gets even a 2nd for either of those two, he should be given an extension... Doubt he gets a second for either, probably a 3rd or 4th would be my best guess right now. a tad optimistic on my part. OK, OK...more than a tad |
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Nov 12, 2022 11:13:57 GMT -6
Doubt he gets a second for either, probably a 3rd or 4th would be my best guess right now. a tad optimistic on my part. OK, OK...more than a tad nothing wrong with that! |
|
