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Post by steamer on May 21, 2022 7:51:45 GMT -6
Obviously building the team needs all the parts and Tampa did well with Point and Kucherov but Hedman, Stamkos and Vasilevsky were 1st rounders. Then they grab veterans McDonagh, Maroon and Perry. Luck? Good management? Probably a bit of both.
So hopefully Hawks do draft high motor type players with their 2nd and 3rd rounders and next year and beyond they need high skill picks with their 1st rounders.
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Post by acesandeights on May 21, 2022 8:57:03 GMT -6
Looking at the Hawks’ website story about yesterday’s lunch at the UC where they “officially” introduced KD and his 2 lieutenants - Maciver and Greenberg. They are quoted saying the scouting staff is still very strong and capable but they will be asked to look at different attributes than in the past for this draft. Just curious what those “attributes” are? Size? Speed? Snarl? Coachability? Maybe it’s just marketing BS claiming to change what the scouts look for. We shall see. This is a month old but when they signed Lafferty to an extension, this was KD's comment at the time about his vision for the kind of hockey he wants to see in the future. "Sam’s speed and up-tempo style is the brand of hockey we hope to see the team play over the coming years," GM Kyle Davidson said in a team statement. You pose very good questions. When you read KD's comment, it goes right to your first question; Will an up-tempo brand of hockey require players with different attributes than what Hawk scouts have looked for in the past? It will be interesting to see what they end up drafting next month. Here is one article about the Lafferty extension with KD's comment. Fourth paragraph. www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/nbcsports/blackhawks-agree-to-terms-with-sam-lafferty-on-two-year-extension/2820087/ |
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Post by BigT on May 21, 2022 12:15:11 GMT -6
My best guess is now that Lafferty is locked up for a couple more years at a cheap rate. He’ll be shopped next trade deadline as he might be able to fetch the Hawks a first round pick as he develops into a tough power forward type. This is a smart move on KDs behalf. He got a lot for Hagel. And even if he gets 1/2 that for Lafferty, it’s the way to go.
Look at the Rags top D pairing. Both were traded for and now very good. Possibly one of the best duos in hockey. Gotta try a lot of different guys in different situations. If the last of the core leave, I feel this could be a quick 3-4 year rebuild. If they stay, I believe it’ll be closer to the 8-9 year mark. But it is what it is. You should only have to rebuild from the ground up once every 30 years. I feel like the Wings understand that. The Wings last rebuild started roughly 35 years ago and now they’re almost through their next one. Hawks lasted 7 years and ended really really bad.
When your team has a couple hall of Famers on it, and you can’t even sniff the playoffs. There’s a massive problem. You have 3 of the hardest positions to fill and the team is that bad. Actually with 19/88/12/4, it shouldn’t have been this bad of a year. Yet here we are due to needing 8-9 NHL caliber players. That’s just too many and the farm doesn’t even have enough guys to fill those roles on injuries or whatever. And I don’t mean fill them by being awesome. I just mean filling them by showing up and not being absolute liabilities.
However. I think the idea should be to try and use every player here and get as many assets as possible in the quickest amount of time. 19/88 can always come back with a more loaded roster.
I’ve said this any times. But imagine the duo leave for Lafreniere and a 1st, Byram and a 1st. Then the Hawks get Bedard in next years draft. Now July 1/23 they sign Toews and Kane to cap friendly deals. Now you’ve got Toews, Kane, Dcat, Jones, Byram, Bedard, Lafreniere, Dach, Reichel, Vlasic, Strome, Raddysh, plus a litany of other draft picks to round out the roster over the next 5 years. This is how you rebuild quickly.
That’s 12 players and Bedard and Dcat can be the next duo. Toews and Kane can slip back to a 2nd line. Now the Hawks have 6 first round picks from 2023-24. That’s massive!!!
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Post by OldTimeHawky on May 21, 2022 15:55:15 GMT -6
BT I don't know why you think the Avs would give up Byram and a 1st for Toews, that'd be sweet but very unrealistic. If they can't beat the Blues I'm sure they'd want Toews and maybe Byram is in the mix but the Hawks would need a sweetener, not the Avs.
Now Kane for Lafreniere is very doable because the Rags offered Kakko, the big Russian who was a top10 pick, and a small puck moving swede dman who was a 1st rounder for Kane but it didn't go through. At the trade deadline Lafreniere was put on the trade block so if Kane's willing to leaving get Alex and some other pieces for him.
Of course this all depends on what Toews and Kane decide, lets hope they're ok with being traded this offseason and come back a year later.
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Post by BigT on May 21, 2022 16:12:41 GMT -6
BT I don't know why you think the Avs would give up Byram and a 1st for Toews, that'd be sweet but very unrealistic. If they can't beat the Blues I'm sure they'd want Toews and maybe Byram is in the mix but the Hawks would need a sweetener, not the Avs. Now Kane for Lafreniere is very doable because the Rags offered Kakko, the big Russian who was a top10 pick, and a small puck moving swede dman who was a 1st rounder for Kane but it didn't go through. At the trade deadline Lafreniere was put on the trade block so if Kane's willing to leaving get Alex and some other pieces for him. Of course this all depends on what Toews and Kane decide, lets hope they're ok with being traded this offseason and come back a year later. Toews may not be the kid he once was. But make no bones about it, Toews with half retained would bring in a haul. He’s a winner. I think any playoff team will take him. Sakic has said in the past how awesome Toews is and any team is richer because of him. I’m sure with a proper training camp and off-season, Toews will be more than fine. All the Avs need is Toews at 50%. They’ve got the rest. Avs will lose players this year. I believe the Hawks can help them, and pick up some serious help along the way. Byram is also gonna want a bigger role soon. And that won’t happen there. Worst case is the Hawks can trade a roster player and a couple prospects for Byram at some point!!! |
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Post by shooter61 on May 21, 2022 19:35:35 GMT -6
why the hell would you want Byram , he is one hit away from retirement, and you forgot we won 3 cups with our rebuild the wings have done nothing since 09, I doubt you would get that , But T I'm all in if we could, nothing I would like better, than seeing some exciting hockey,
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Post by OldTimeHawky on May 21, 2022 19:36:07 GMT -6
BT I don't know why you think the Avs would give up Byram and a 1st for Toews, that'd be sweet but very unrealistic. If they can't beat the Blues I'm sure they'd want Toews and maybe Byram is in the mix but the Hawks would need a sweetener, not the Avs. Now Kane for Lafreniere is very doable because the Rags offered Kakko, the big Russian who was a top10 pick, and a small puck moving swede dman who was a 1st rounder for Kane but it didn't go through. At the trade deadline Lafreniere was put on the trade block so if Kane's willing to leaving get Alex and some other pieces for him. Of course this all depends on what Toews and Kane decide, lets hope they're ok with being traded this offseason and come back a year later. Toews may not be the kid he once was. But make no bones about it, Toews with half retained would bring in a haul. He’s a winner. I think any playoff team will take him. Sakic has said in the past how awesome Toews is and any team is richer because of him. I’m sure with a proper training camp and off-season, Toews will be more than fine. All the Avs need is Toews at 50%. They’ve got the rest. Avs will lose players this year. I believe the Hawks can help them, and pick up some serious help along the way. Byram is also gonna want a bigger role soon. And that won’t happen there. Worst case is the Hawks can trade a roster player and a couple prospects for Byram at some point!!! No doubt Toews at half retained for 1yr is a great addition to any contending team and I can see the Avs giving up Byram with their depth on D, it's just the 1st round pick I question. Hopefully Toews and Kane start bidding wars if they go on the market. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on May 21, 2022 19:58:11 GMT -6
why the hell would you want Byram , he is one hit away from retirement, and you forgot we won 3 cups with our rebuild the wings have done nothing since 09, I doubt you would get that , But T I'm all in if we could, nothing I would like better, than seeing some exciting hockey, That's a huge concern, so maybe getting him and a 1st would work, 1st is insurance if he has to retire young. But I agree, Byram wouldn't be my first choice for a potential top2 dman. |
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Post by BigT on May 21, 2022 21:10:38 GMT -6
why the hell would you want Byram , he is one hit away from retirement, and you forgot we won 3 cups with our rebuild the wings have done nothing since 09, I doubt you would get that , But T I'm all in if we could, nothing I would like better, than seeing some exciting hockey, Wings played the Hawks in round 2 fiercely in 13. They did quite a bit and kept a 26 or 27 year streak going. So I have to say the wings were more than meets the eye. They actually had the Hawks 3-1 in that series. I believe the winged wheel raised the white flag around 2015 or 2016. They had a solid run. Maybe not all the Cups they wanted, but a good run!!! |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jun 3, 2022 23:50:28 GMT -6
It's not far away now and with the combine coming up the Hawks will get a good look at many players that'll be there in rounds 2 and 3, which the Hawks have 5 picks in. Trades could happen and they might get a 1st rounder or more 2nd and 3rd picks so they're studying everyone.
Maciver said in a recent interview that there's good players in those rounds and Carolina got 3 core players from there, Aho, Pesce, and Slavin. So you can't leave any stone unturned.
I think these guys will do a good job giving KD the info he needs to pick the players he's looking for, it'll be interesting to see how he drafts.
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jun 4, 2022 16:36:25 GMT -6
If the Hawks want a first round pick I'd see if NJ wants a sure thing now in Debrincat, Hawks should get the big Slovak, could be a beast on the wing like OV or a 40 goal guy like DCat, but much bigger.
No slight to Alex cause he plays huge and he's durable, but you can't teach size and if the person with size has skill and hopefully drive, gotta go with the bigger guy.
Slafkovsky is 6'4" 225lbs at 18, he's a great skater with a heavy shot and he isn't afraid to use his size to get the puck or protect it.
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Post by BigT on Jun 4, 2022 19:11:34 GMT -6
If the Hawks want a first round pick I'd see if NJ wants a sure thing now in Debrincat, Hawks should get the big Slovak, could be a beast on the wing like OV or a 40 goal guy like DCat, but much bigger. No slight to Alex cause he plays huge and he's durable, but you can't teach size and if the person with size has skill and hopefully drive, gotta go with the bigger guy. Slafkovsky is 6'4" 225lbs at 18, he's a great skater with a heavy shot and he isn't afraid to use his size to get the puck or protect it. Plus whether we like it or not, there’s a rebuild going on. And 6 year younger is a big deal at this stage of the game. Just spitballin here. What about Dcat Strome for #2 overall and either Holtz or L Hughes? Even if the Hawks had to throw in a Mitchell or someone like that, they may do it. Might be something worth looking at. If Dach wants 6 million per like I just read. I’d even look at moving him and Dcat for #2 and Hughes or Holtz!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Jun 4, 2022 19:32:17 GMT -6
If the Hawks want a first round pick I'd see if NJ wants a sure thing now in Debrincat, Hawks should get the big Slovak, could be a beast on the wing like OV or a 40 goal guy like DCat, but much bigger. No slight to Alex cause he plays huge and he's durable, but you can't teach size and if the person with size has skill and hopefully drive, gotta go with the bigger guy. Slafkovsky is 6'4" 225lbs at 18, he's a great skater with a heavy shot and he isn't afraid to use his size to get the puck or protect it. Plus whether we like it or not, there’s a rebuild going on. And 6 year younger is a big deal at this stage of the game. Just spitballin here. What about Dcat Strome for #2 overall and either Holtz or L Hughes? Even if the Hawks had to throw in a Mitchell or someone like that, they may do it. Might be something worth looking at. If Dach wants 6 million per like I just read. I’d even look at moving him and Dcat for #2 and Hughes or Holtz!!! LOL..... they might think about Holtz, I'll give you that one... but nooooo wayyyyyyyyyy are they trading Luke. we'd have to do something more like D-Cat, Strome signed to to a short, cheap deal, and a second for L Hughes and their 2023 first rounder. he might be the best of the brothers. IF he can get better in his own end, he could be Makar good, imo. if they offered Hughes and #2 for what you proposed, I'd do it yesterday. |
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Post by BigT on Jun 4, 2022 19:38:37 GMT -6
Plus whether we like it or not, there’s a rebuild going on. And 6 year younger is a big deal at this stage of the game. Just spitballin here. What about Dcat Strome for #2 overall and either Holtz or L Hughes? Even if the Hawks had to throw in a Mitchell or someone like that, they may do it. Might be something worth looking at. If Dach wants 6 million per like I just read. I’d even look at moving him and Dcat for #2 and Hughes or Holtz!!! LOL..... they might think about Holtz, I'll give you that one... but nooooo wayyyyyyyyyy are they trading Luke. we'd have to do something more like D-Cat, Strome signed to to a short, cheap deal, and a second for L Hughes and their 2023 first rounder. he might be the best of the brothers. IF he can get better in his own end, he could be Makar good, imo. if they offered Hughes and #2 for what you proposed, I'd do it yesterday. If Dcat was a 30 goal scorer I’d laugh at it my self. But he’s a solid goal scorer. 40 goals multiple times. This is considered a weaker draft. So not sure if either of the top 2 will be game changers. That’s why they’re willing to trade the pick. I’m not sure what they’re train or thought is here. But it sounds like they want the playoffs next year. So they may need to be willing to trade some of their top prospects!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Jun 4, 2022 19:54:16 GMT -6
LOL..... they might think about Holtz, I'll give you that one... but nooooo wayyyyyyyyyy are they trading Luke. we'd have to do something more like D-Cat, Strome signed to to a short, cheap deal, and a second for L Hughes and their 2023 first rounder. he might be the best of the brothers. IF he can get better in his own end, he could be Makar good, imo. if they offered Hughes and #2 for what you proposed, I'd do it yesterday. If Dcat was a 30 goal scorer I’d laugh at it my self. But he’s a solid goal scorer. 40 goals multiple times. This is considered a weaker draft. So not sure if either of the top 2 will be game changers. That’s why they’re willing to trade the pick. I’m not sure what they’re train or thought is here. But it sounds like they want the playoffs next year. So they may need to be willing to trade some of their top prospects!!! o, I agree with that. I just highly doubt they give us the #2 overall AND the kid they probably expect to be their #1 dman down the road... |
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Post by LP on Jun 5, 2022 0:40:28 GMT -6
Why not have Kaner and Toews be rental players--assuming they are willing. Afterwards, they could sign 1-yr contracts with the B'Hawks and do it again and again. Combine that with getting a couple of really bad goalies and we're gonna out-tank Arizona.
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Post by vadarx on Jun 5, 2022 1:18:00 GMT -6
Why not have Kaner and Toews be rental players--assuming they are willing. Afterwards, they could sign 1-yr contracts with the B'Hawks and do it again and again. Combine that with getting a couple of really bad goalies and we're gonna out-tank Arizona. why would either of them want to do that? how many times could they do it before the rest of the league caught on? |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 5, 2022 2:41:50 GMT -6
Why not have Kaner and Toews be rental players--assuming they are willing. Afterwards, they could sign 1-yr contracts with the B'Hawks and do it again and again. Combine that with getting a couple of really bad goalies and we're gonna out-tank Arizona. why would either of them want to do that? how many times could they do it before the rest of the league caught on? No doubt kane/toews wouldn't hesitate to take one for the team but i think being pimped out year after year to the highest bidders might be crossing a line somehow. : ) |
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Post by BigT on Jun 5, 2022 11:10:35 GMT -6
why would either of them want to do that? how many times could they do it before the rest of the league caught on? No doubt kane/toews wouldn't hesitate to take one for the team but i think being pimped out year after year to the highest bidders might be crossing a line somehow. : ) I agree. The only way they do that is if they have plans to buy the team!!! |
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Post by Tater on Jun 5, 2022 11:25:12 GMT -6
why would either of them want to do that? how many times could they do it before the rest of the league caught on? No doubt kane/toews wouldn't hesitate to take one for the team but i think being pimped out year after year to the highest bidders might be crossing a line somehow. : ) Especially with Kane having a new baby around. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 5, 2022 20:53:30 GMT -6
i don't know where he played or what position.
i don't know his size or his nationality.
but i hope we draft this guy.
you can just tell he's got that certain cocky attitude that screams elite.
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Jun 6, 2022 5:01:46 GMT -6
i don't know where he played or what position. i don't know his size or his nationality. but i hope we draft this guy. you can just tell he's got that certain cocky attitude that screams elite. 5'10" 153lbs, right handed rw who had 80pts for Moose Jaw, 12pts in 10 playoff games. And he's from Irma, Alberta. But that dirty stache 😆 |
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Post by galaxytrash on Jun 12, 2022 22:53:08 GMT -6
i'll admit i didn't think our drafting was quite this bad. some of the grim bullet points... From 2012 to 2018, the Hawks drafted 53 players in the second round or later. Only 11 have made the NHL. Only five have played in more than 100 NHL games: Alex DeBrincat (the lone flash of brilliance in the group), Philipp Kurashev, John Hayden, Tyler Motte and Vinnie Hinostroza.
The Hawks’ 21% success rate on picks making the NHL pales in comparison to the league average of 38%. So does their 100-game success rate of 9% to the league average of 15%.
The second round has been a particular weak spot. Only three of their seven second-round picks in that span have made the NHL. Chad Krys, Artur Kayumov, Graham Knott and Dillon Fournier failed to do so; DeBrincat, Ian Mitchell and Carl Dahlstrom are the only players who did.
That equates to a 43% success rate on second-round picks making the NHL and a 14% success rate on them playing 100 games (only DeBrincat has so far). The NHL averages are far higher: 65% and 32%, respectively.chicago.suntimes.com/blackhawks/2022/6/11/23160401/blackhawks-2022-nhl-draft-strategy-mike-doneghey-amateur-scouting-plans-forwards-speed |
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Post by Tater on Jun 13, 2022 2:08:10 GMT -6
i'll admit i didn't think our drafting was quite this bad. some of the grim bullet points... From 2012 to 2018, the Hawks drafted 53 players in the second round or later. Only 11 have made the NHL. Only five have played in more than 100 NHL games: Alex DeBrincat (the lone flash of brilliance in the group), Philipp Kurashev, John Hayden, Tyler Motte and Vinnie Hinostroza.
The Hawks’ 21% success rate on picks making the NHL pales in comparison to the league average of 38%. So does their 100-game success rate of 9% to the league average of 15%.
The second round has been a particular weak spot. Only three of their seven second-round picks in that span have made the NHL. Chad Krys, Artur Kayumov, Graham Knott and Dillon Fournier failed to do so; DeBrincat, Ian Mitchell and Carl Dahlstrom are the only players who did.
Looks like a certain someone's "analytics" didn't work as planned.
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Post by BigT on Jun 13, 2022 6:01:27 GMT -6
I remember many times we’d have the argument on here or the old boards and I remember arguing that the Hawks drafting was awful.
The horrible part is, many thought the Hawks drafting was fine and it’s that the Hawks were picking later than everyone else. The team has suffered due to no new life coming in.
I seriously mean this. I don’t know how anyone can honestly stick up for the last guy. When Q was here he told him who to get or what to get. He wanted to do it all himself and the team fell apart like a Chinese motorcycle.
I remember showing numbers how the Hawks drafting was awful. Most just thought I was being the usual down on the org. Now that the Hawks have something that resembles more normal. The posts and comments are more normal. Scambo was the worst person in the history of sports. He has no idea how to hockey. His moves always failed because he just didn’t know.
Who honestly thinks that drafting mainly NCAA guys is a good idea for a few years? Then smaller USNTDP guys? Then look for anyone who has a brother and try and get brothers or someone who has a family member that played?
Hawks gotta start hitting on draft picks more often. I get it, they won’t all be superstars. But you gotta do better than a Kurashev. Hawks really don’t have that much in the pipeline. And considering the Hawks haven’t gone for it in 6 seasons. There should be a plethora of kids in the pipeline. But there’s maybe a handful!!!
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Post by Nikos on Jun 13, 2022 7:42:47 GMT -6
PATHETIC. How Bowman and team survived with this type of track record is stunning. It took a scandal to get him out, he could still be here, think about that.
What I recall listening to Bowman & Kelly was in their mind what good drafts they had and even though in most of these years drafting lower, all the good players that are available later they would go on say or a bunch with the same grades and we are going to get a good player. I suppose all GMs and Director of Scouting say the same thing, the problem they believed it. GOOD RIDDANCE.
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Post by nighbor on Jun 13, 2022 9:20:52 GMT -6
i'll admit i didn't think our drafting was quite this bad. some of the grim bullet points... From 2012 to 2018, the Hawks drafted 53 players in the second round or later. Only 11 have made the NHL. Only five have played in more than 100 NHL games: Alex DeBrincat (the lone flash of brilliance in the group), Philipp Kurashev, John Hayden, Tyler Motte and Vinnie Hinostroza.
The Hawks’ 21% success rate on picks making the NHL pales in comparison to the league average of 38%. So does their 100-game success rate of 9% to the league average of 15%.
The second round has been a particular weak spot. Only three of their seven second-round picks in that span have made the NHL. Chad Krys, Artur Kayumov, Graham Knott and Dillon Fournier failed to do so; DeBrincat, Ian Mitchell and Carl Dahlstrom are the only players who did.
Looks like a certain someone's "analytics" didn't work as planned.
I The certain someone isn't involved in analytics. Analytics is a department unto itself. |
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Post by hsbob on Jun 13, 2022 9:24:35 GMT -6
I remember many times we’d have the argument on here or the old boards and I remember arguing that the Hawks drafting was awful. The horrible part is, many thought the Hawks drafting was fine and it’s that the Hawks were picking later than everyone else. The team has suffered due to no new life coming in. I seriously mean this. I don’t know how anyone can honestly stick up for the last guy. When Q was here he told him who to get or what to get. He wanted to do it all himself and the team fell apart like a Chinese motorcycle. I remember showing numbers how the Hawks drafting was awful. Most just thought I was being the usual down on the org. Now that the Hawks have something that resembles more normal. The posts and comments are more normal. Scambo was the worst person in the history of sports. He has no idea how to hockey. His moves always failed because he just didn’t know. Who honestly thinks that drafting mainly NCAA guys is a good idea for a few years? Then smaller USNTDP guys? Then look for anyone who has a brother and try and get brothers or someone who has a family member that played? Hawks gotta start hitting on draft picks more often. I get it, they won’t all be superstars. But you gotta do better than a Kurashev. Hawks really don’t have that much in the pipeline. And considering the Hawks haven’t gone for it in 6 seasons. There should be a plethora of kids in the pipeline. But there’s maybe a handful!!! In the 13 drafts since '09',the Hawks had 13 picks in the first round,two NCAA players,Schmaltz and Hayes were taken and one USNTDP player Hartman.......all three have acquitted themselves quite well in the NHL. The other 10 1st round picks consisted of 6 Canadians and 4 Euros........hardly "mainly NCAA guys" More NCAA/USND players came in the 2nd round but other GM's find very useful players from the college ranks........DUMBASS couldn't find his ass with both hands! |
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Post by hsbob on Jun 13, 2022 9:31:47 GMT -6
PATHETIC. How Bowman and team survived with this type of track record is stunning. It took a scandal to get him out, he could still be here, think about that. What I recall listening to Bowman & Kelly was in their mind what good drafts they had and even though in most of these years drafting lower, all the good players that are available later they would go on say or a bunch with the same grades and we are going to get a good player. I suppose all GMs and Director of Scouting say the same thing, the problem they believed it. GOOD RIDDANCE. You bet your ass he'd still be here! Danny Boy loves him and Scotty still has Rocky's ear too. |
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Post by steamer on Jun 13, 2022 9:59:02 GMT -6
Drafting good prospects is one thing they’ve done a poor job at but developing them afterwards is even worse. KD has “promised” this will be better going forward but I have to say I am in a “show me” mode on that one.
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