30
|
|
Post by Tater on Dec 17, 2022 11:49:59 GMT -6
Oh man, I remember every player on the 'o3-'04 team. Look at all the +/-'s. Brutal team.
|
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Dec 17, 2022 11:55:03 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by T-man2010 on Dec 17, 2022 12:21:17 GMT -6
always nice to put things in perspective. this doesn't include the loss to the wild so we're actually at .310 points %. Wow. You’ve got to look back over sixty years to find a Hawks team this bad. This seems to be an older demographic here, how many of us were wearing diapers when they were this uncompetitive as a team? Let’s hope at the very least we’re not back wearing them again when they finally become relevant again. I was wearing diapers in the 56-57 season, and maybe the 2022-2023 season..... |
|
|
|
Post by bigbarn27 on Dec 17, 2022 13:47:46 GMT -6
i hear ya Bob not gonna be an easy job for writers either for a while. cant think of anyone on the current team that the average fan wants to hear about besides 88 &19 |
|
|
|
Post by LordKOTL on Dec 17, 2022 13:52:38 GMT -6
i hear ya Bob not gonna be an easy job for writers either for a while. cant think of anyone on the current team that the average fan wants to hear about besides 88 &19 To be fair, I'd be willing to read about how Seth Jones compares to his salary. If the overrated bloggers...err... sportswriters are gonna slam players. I mean Seabs in his later years wasn't as-big of a discrepancy between on-ice play and cap hit...and Seabs had offal pairings as well. |
|
|
|
Post by T-man2010 on Dec 17, 2022 13:57:50 GMT -6
He did say that they don't have the high end players they used to have on their lines. I assume he was talking about Panarin, Sharp, Hossa and D-Cat. |
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Dec 17, 2022 16:23:20 GMT -6
fuck that guy for that article. give me a break. |
|
|
|
Post by 2old4this on Dec 17, 2022 18:19:16 GMT -6
Anaheim has 21 pts in 32 games
Hawks have 18 pts in 29 games
lookin' good
|
|
|
|
Post by tincup on Dec 18, 2022 0:41:32 GMT -6
So we’re in last, Columbus is 30th. What would be the positioning of the two teams if the Jones trade never happened? Doesn’t seem like it worked out for either team, but who did it least benefit?
|
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Dec 18, 2022 7:32:07 GMT -6
fuck that guy for that article. give me a break. All part of the standard playbook 1) Isolate the stars and provide them nobody with talent to play with. 2) Their numbers drop 3) The press writes negative articles about their efforts/attitudes/production 4) The fans turn on the players 5) The players ask for a fresh start elsewhere. This cycle happens in every city in every professional sport during a downturn. In an earlier era, we saw this with Chris Chelios and Eddie Belfour among others. Eventually, the stars return as heroes and have their numbers retired. |
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Dec 18, 2022 8:30:41 GMT -6
So we’re in last, Columbus is 30th. What would be the positioning of the two teams if the Jones trade never happened? Doesn’t seem like it worked out for either team, but who did it least benefit? I believe it hurt the Hawks most. Now they have a massive contract they want no part of. In 4-5 years time he’ll be a 32/33 year old dman with a few years left on a bad contract. If the Hawks had their own pick last year, who knows what would have been possible? The Hawks ended up with 3 firsts, and didn’t even have one to start off the draft with. Plus the Hawks lost like 18 spots in the previous draft. As far as Columbus goes. They gained a 1st rounder and moved up 18 slots. Columbus got a lot of help from the Hawks here. But they also jumped the gun and way overpaid for a free agent. Their rebuild had literally just begun and they went crazy. But to get picks 6 and 12 for Jones and pick 30 is worth it in my eyes if you’re Columbus!!! |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Dec 18, 2022 9:37:39 GMT -6
i hear ya Bob not gonna be an easy job for writers either for a while. cant think of anyone on the current team that the average fan wants to hear about besides 88 &19 To be fair, I'd be willing to read about how Seth Jones compares to his salary. If the overrated bloggers...err... sportswriters are gonna slam players. I mean Seabs in his later years wasn't as-big of a discrepancy between on-ice play and cap hit...and Seabs had offal pairings as well. To be fair,S Jones knows he's here for quite a while and he also knows the team has a better chance to be competitive sooner with one of next summer's top picks and he's playing accordingly. |
|
|
|
Post by bigbarn27 on Dec 18, 2022 10:06:17 GMT -6
so was reading trades from some crazy blogger this one would disgust me so maybe it would happen. Ryan Johansen and a first for something not major back. That way they still suck and I get to see that guy in our crest good grief.
|
|
|
|
Post by tincup on Dec 18, 2022 14:38:53 GMT -6
So we’re in last, Columbus is 30th. What would be the positioning of the two teams if the Jones trade never happened? Doesn’t seem like it worked out for either team, but who did it least benefit? I believe it hurt the Hawks most. Now they have a massive contract they want no part of. In 4-5 years time he’ll be a 32/33 year old dman with a few years left on a bad contract. If the Hawks had their own pick last year, who knows what would have been possible? The Hawks ended up with 3 firsts, and didn’t even have one to start off the draft with. Plus the Hawks lost like 18 spots in the previous draft. As far as Columbus goes. They gained a 1st rounder and moved up 18 slots. Columbus got a lot of help from the Hawks here. But they also jumped the gun and way overpaid for a free agent. Their rebuild had literally just begun and they went crazy. But to get picks 6 and 12 for Jones and pick 30 is worth it in my eyes if you’re Columbus!!! I can’t remember how it all worked out for them but some combination of Jiricek, Sillinger and maybe Heimosalmi were the draft results of that trade, a nice selection of prospects for them. Boqvist will always be a band aid so he’s almost an afterthought at this point. |
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Dec 18, 2022 16:27:00 GMT -6
fuck that guy for that article. give me a break. All part of the standard playbook 1) Isolate the stars and provide them nobody with talent to play with. 2) Their numbers drop 3) The press writes negative articles about their efforts/attitudes/production 4) The fans turn on the players 5) The players ask for a fresh start elsewhere. This cycle happens in every city in every professional sport during a downturn. In an earlier era, we saw this with Chris Chelios and Eddie Belfour among others. Eventually, the stars return as heroes and have their numbers retired. and that is why fuck that guy. totally unnecessary and comes across as a schill for the org. |
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Dec 18, 2022 16:28:41 GMT -6
So we’re in last, Columbus is 30th. What would be the positioning of the two teams if the Jones trade never happened? Doesn’t seem like it worked out for either team, but who did it least benefit? I believe it hurt the Hawks most. Now they have a massive contract they want no part of. In 4-5 years time he’ll be a 32/33 year old dman with a few years left on a bad contract. If the Hawks had their own pick last year, who knows what would have been possible? The Hawks ended up with 3 firsts, and didn’t even have one to start off the draft with. Plus the Hawks lost like 18 spots in the previous draft. As far as Columbus goes. They gained a 1st rounder and moved up 18 slots. Columbus got a lot of help from the Hawks here. But they also jumped the gun and way overpaid for a free agent. Their rebuild had literally just begun and they went crazy. But to get picks 6 and 12 for Jones and pick 30 is worth it in my eyes if you’re Columbus!!! it was a disaster for the 'hawks and Bowman should've been fired for doing it before he was ever shown the door for the Beach stuff. |
|
|
|
Post by LordKOTL on Dec 18, 2022 18:54:46 GMT -6
To be fair, I'd be willing to read about how Seth Jones compares to his salary. If the overrated bloggers...err... sportswriters are gonna slam players. I mean Seabs in his later years wasn't as-big of a discrepancy between on-ice play and cap hit...and Seabs had offal pairings as well. To be fair,S Jones knows he's here for quite a while and he also knows the team has a better chance to be competitive sooner with one of next summer's top picks and he's playing accordingly. The way I see it is if the overrated bloggers are willing to slam Toews and Kane, why not slam Jones? Toews at least leads the keague in FO% and Kane is still dishing out the best setups he can. Jones is looking like Chris McAlpine out there. |
|
|
|
Post by Deeman93 on Dec 18, 2022 21:03:40 GMT -6
Whether it was said or not and it probably has been a million times. This team has become a joke, a minor league team at best. Bowman, colliton and company ruined this franchise. Toews and kane don't deserve this, get the f out of chi town. I can't believe anyone would want this head coaching job. Sorry luke! With all the trades the last 3 or so years we would a playoff team if they didn't happen. And by the way jones was a waste of money. Fans please stay home and show your displeasure to a once proud franchise. No other team has ever sunk so fast!
|
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Dec 18, 2022 21:18:19 GMT -6
I am not typically a conspiracy theorist. But let's call it for what it is.
Local sports beat reporters, like those embedded in a war regiment, must maintain good relations with their sources. They cannot afford to attack star players and do their jobs effectively.
As it stands, Seth Jones is not going anywhere, despite his obvious lacklustre play. The local beat guys know this. They will need to work together still for many years. There is no point right now to take him down, even if it would be well-deserved.
On the other hand, the local beat guys are well aware that the team is shopping Toews and Kane.
For years, the local beat guys had no choice but to play the game with the Hawk stars to maintain good relations. They patronized them with softball questions, wrote at times nauseating stories to build legacies and kissed their asses.
This has been a necessary part of their jobs. But now they no longer have to follow this script.
Are we now about to see some payback time in the press? If so, we should not be surprised. It happens all the time.
|
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Dec 19, 2022 9:56:19 GMT -6
I am not typically a conspiracy theorist. But let's call it for what it is. Local sports beat reporters, like those embedded in a war regiment, must maintain good relations with their sources. They cannot afford to attack star players and do their jobs effectively. As it stands, Seth Jones is not going anywhere, despite his obvious lacklustre play. The local beat guys know this. They will need to work together still for many years. There is no point right now to take him down, even if it would be well-deserved. On the other hand, the local beat guys are well aware that the team is shopping Toews and Kane. For years, the local beat guys had no choice but to play the game with the Hawk stars to maintain good relations. They patronized them with softball questions, wrote at times nauseating stories to build legacies and kissed their asses. This has been a necessary part of their jobs. But now they no longer have to follow this script. Are we now about to see some payback time in the press? If so, we should not be surprised. It happens all the time. Local sports media all around the country can 'fawn' over local superstars,you're right but in this instance,the over flowing individual AND team trophy cases had a LOT to do with it IMO. Local sports media also jumped to a lot of conclusions about Kane's early off-ice exploits and Toews' year-long absence from illness as well. JT also caught tons of grief over a few down seasons after the grueling cup runs and the national media didn't even consider him an NHL top twenty center after a bounce-back,career best 35/81 56% season.......even though few centers had better numbers that year. Their salaries were also a major point of contention in the media and for the fanbase the past 4-5 years...........but that comes with the high paid territory. |
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Dec 19, 2022 15:00:02 GMT -6
For years, I lived next door to a sports reporter who despised most of the athletes he covered.
Imagine - you have spent the better part of a half decade at university learning how to write. You are in debt up to your eyeballs, and your already meagre pay remains under threat as news organizations continue to downsize.
The players you report on seemingly can barely spell their full names. They drive Maseratis and score with supermodels when they are not playing Sega or hanging out at the strip clubs.
You've become disillusioned by their meaningless, shallow lives and empty cliches. But you must depend on them to write your stories. They are deliberately rude to you and pretend you don't exist unless a camera is present.
The national media guys can speak and write freely. The local beat guys have to filter their every word so nothing comes back to bite them.
I am not saying Toews and Kane fit the profile of the entitled athlete by any stretch. I have never met either. But it is certainly feasible that the beat guys resent them.
|
|
|
|
Post by tincup on Dec 19, 2022 18:10:25 GMT -6
Love the mind games…
|
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Dec 19, 2022 19:52:51 GMT -6
My son does that shit now. I wanted to leave the ice to go do other things. But these kids play these games. Our captain was always the last off the ice if he chose. Away games. If the other teams captain or captains wanted to be last off, you let ‘em. I don’t get it, but there’s also a lot I don’t get these days. I just don’t want to explain to the kids anymore about this shit!!! |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Dec 20, 2022 9:10:25 GMT -6
For years, I lived next door to a sports reporter who despised most of the athletes he covered. Imagine - you have spent the better part of a half decade at university learning how to write. You are in debt up to your eyeballs, and your already meagre pay remains under threat as news organizations continue to downsize. The players you report on seemingly can barely spell their full names. They drive Maseratis and score with supermodels when they are not playing Sega or hanging out at the strip clubs. You've become disillusioned by their meaningless, shallow lives and empty cliches. But you must depend on them to write your stories. They are deliberately rude to you and pretend you don't exist unless a camera is present. The national media guys can speak and write freely. The local beat guys have to filter their every word so nothing comes back to bite them. I am not saying Toews and Kane fit the profile of the entitled athlete by any stretch. I have never met either. But it is certainly feasible that the beat guys resent them. It's not just the plyers either,front offices can also influence local beat writer's stories and allot player/locker room access accordingly. Players also spend over a decade learning their craft or they don't make it......right? If sports writers are resentful and envious of the success of the subjects they're assigned to cover,it has to make their job tougher. Your point's well taken though,it seems the days of big time Chicago newspaper writers who had the 'chops' and the circulation to criticize at will are long gone. |
|
|
|
Post by LordKOTL on Dec 22, 2022 9:15:48 GMT -6
For years, I lived next door to a sports reporter who despised most of the athletes he covered. Imagine - you have spent the better part of a half decade at university learning how to write. You are in debt up to your eyeballs, and your already meagre pay remains under threat as news organizations continue to downsize. The players you report on seemingly can barely spell their full names. They drive Maseratis and score with supermodels when they are not playing Sega or hanging out at the strip clubs. You've become disillusioned by their meaningless, shallow lives and empty cliches. But you must depend on them to write your stories. They are deliberately rude to you and pretend you don't exist unless a camera is present. The national media guys can speak and write freely. The local beat guys have to filter their every word so nothing comes back to bite them. I am not saying Toews and Kane fit the profile of the entitled athlete by any stretch. I have never met either. But it is certainly feasible that the beat guys resent them.
Players also spend over a decade learning their craft or they don't make it......right? If sports writers are resentful and envious of the success of the subjects they're assigned to cover,it has to make their job tougher. Your point's well taken though,it seems the days of big time Chicago newspaper writers who had the 'chops' and the circulation to criticize at will are long gone. That's really my point. If a team is bankrolling a reporter can you really get a good story? Or, if the reporter knows that if they say anything remotely negative they'll have their access yoinked--can you really get something unvarnished? At that point, are they nothing more than an unofficial shill for the club? Further, if the fans know this does anyone take what they write seriously? Maybe it's a hazard of the job, but even nationally it seems like there's no real critical thinking amongst the writers--case in point: the unwritten 'rule' about how 'the Selke always goes to a center' even if a center wasn't the best defensive forward. And it's not just limited to hockey or sports for that matter. You have to figure out who's paying the salaries before you get your news so you know how to de-slant the bias. But as for the disillusionment, I get it but I thought keeping that to yourself and doing your job was professionalism. I think every one of us here has been in contact with someone here who we really have to wonder, "How in the hell does this waste of a perfectly good Saturday night make more money than I do?" But I do remember that there were stories criticizing Toews and his game early on in his current contract--before 2019 and that outstanding year by him. |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Dec 22, 2022 10:44:54 GMT -6
It's not just the plyers either,front offices can also influence local beat writer's stories and allot player/locker room access accordingly.
Players also spend over a decade learning their craft or they don't make it......right? If sports writers are resentful and envious of the success of the subjects they're assigned to cover,it has to make their job tougher. Your point's well taken though,it seems the days of big time Chicago newspaper writers who had the 'chops' and the circulation to criticize at will are long gone. That's really my point. If a team is bankrolling a reporter can you really get a good story? Or, if the reporter knows that if they say anything remotely negative they'll have their access yoinked--can you really get something unvarnished? At that point, are they nothing more than an unofficial shill for the club? Further, if the fans know this does anyone take what they write seriously? Maybe it's a hazard of the job, but even nationally it seems like there's no real critical thinking amongst the writers--case in point: the unwritten 'rule' about how 'the Selke always goes to a center' even if a center wasn't the best defensive forward. And it's not just limited to hockey or sports for that matter. You have to figure out who's paying the salaries before you get your news so you know how to de-slant the bias. But as for the disillusionment, I get it but I thought keeping that to yourself and doing your job was professionalism. I think every one of us here has been in contact with someone here who we really have to wonder, "How in the hell does this waste of a perfectly good Saturday night make more money than I do?" But I do remember that there were stories criticizing Toews and his game early on in his current contract--before 2019 and that outstanding year by him. Crawford was also kicked all over hell by the Chicago media AND fans,I can't remember how many ass-hats told me he had a drug/alcohol problem when he was out with obvious concussions and there were a LOT of conclusions jumped to with Kane's off-ice exploits too......especially the last accusation. Rocky also took his public 'swipe' at K&T back in '18' and the only consideration paid these two players now is when TF can we get rid of em.......only one 'hero' from the cup era sems like enough when it's all said and done. |
|
|
|
Post by LordKOTL on Dec 22, 2022 10:56:12 GMT -6
That's really my point. If a team is bankrolling a reporter can you really get a good story? Or, if the reporter knows that if they say anything remotely negative they'll have their access yoinked--can you really get something unvarnished? At that point, are they nothing more than an unofficial shill for the club? Further, if the fans know this does anyone take what they write seriously? Maybe it's a hazard of the job, but even nationally it seems like there's no real critical thinking amongst the writers--case in point: the unwritten 'rule' about how 'the Selke always goes to a center' even if a center wasn't the best defensive forward. And it's not just limited to hockey or sports for that matter. You have to figure out who's paying the salaries before you get your news so you know how to de-slant the bias. But as for the disillusionment, I get it but I thought keeping that to yourself and doing your job was professionalism. I think every one of us here has been in contact with someone here who we really have to wonder, "How in the hell does this waste of a perfectly good Saturday night make more money than I do?" But I do remember that there were stories criticizing Toews and his game early on in his current contract--before 2019 and that outstanding year by him. Crawford was also kicked all over hell by the Chicago media AND fans,I can't remember how many ass-hats told me he had a drug/alcohol problem when he was out with obvious concussions and there were a LOT of conclusions jumped to with Kane's off-ice exploits too......especially the last accusation. Rocky also took his public 'swipe' at K&T back in '18' and the only consideration paid these two players now is when TF can we get rid of em.......only one 'hero' from the cup era sems like enough when it's all said and done. Oh yeah, you're preaching to the choir there. My only point was that if Crawford, Kane, Toews, etc. took their knocks in the media, why can't Seth Jones? Hell, during Keith's down 2011 even he took some flack in the media for it. |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Dec 22, 2022 11:56:31 GMT -6
Crawford was also kicked all over hell by the Chicago media AND fans,I can't remember how many ass-hats told me he had a drug/alcohol problem when he was out with obvious concussions and there were a LOT of conclusions jumped to with Kane's off-ice exploits too......especially the last accusation. Rocky also took his public 'swipe' at K&T back in '18' and the only consideration paid these two players now is when TF can we get rid of em.......only one 'hero' from the cup era sems like enough when it's all said and done. Oh yeah, you're preaching to the choir there. My only point was that if Crawford, Kane, Toews, etc. took their knocks in the media, why can't Seth Jones? Hell, during Keith's down 2011 even he took some flack in the media for it. And on the other hand,no player should be immune from legitimate criticism. The days of a Royko or Holtzman lettin' loose on a high-paid,under performing player or the Org that signed/traded for the player with impunity are long gone my friend. Could any on-air announcer pull a 'Harry Carey-like' "he's hittin' .200....he weighs more than that" or "That wouldn't be a HR in a phonebooth" (LOL) when referring to a hometown player? Evan a 'Pat Foley-like' Karpovtsev rant would probably be troublesome nowadays. |
|
|
|
Post by LordKOTL on Dec 23, 2022 13:08:28 GMT -6
Oh yeah, you're preaching to the choir there. My only point was that if Crawford, Kane, Toews, etc. took their knocks in the media, why can't Seth Jones? Hell, during Keith's down 2011 even he took some flack in the media for it. And on the other hand,no player should be immune from legitimate criticism. The days of a Royko or Holtzman lettin' loose on a high-paid,under performing player or the Org that signed/traded for the player with impunity are long gone my friend. Could any on-air announcer pull a 'Harry Carey-like' "he's hittin' .200....he weighs more than that" or "That wouldn't be a HR in a phonebooth" (LOL) when referring to a hometown player? Evan a 'Pat Foley-like' Karpovtsev rant would probably be troublesome nowadays. ...and that Karpo rant needed to be said.  But, I'm a rat bastard that way. A buddy of mine also said Troy Murray on radio lit into the 2017 squad after they shat the bed in Nashville. I didn't hear it, but I heard it was epic. Stuff like that needs to happen a bit more in my opinion, not for little mistakes, but for the big ones. Unlike Crawford, every time Toews, Kane, Jones, etc. makes a mistake, a red light doesn't come on and 10-20k fans jeer or boo. Anyhow, just in case I'm not on, Happy Chanukwannzaramamas to you and everyone else here who I engage with in some smart hockey dialogue--or whatever you all celebrate! |
|
|
|
Post by steamer on Dec 23, 2022 13:22:14 GMT -6
And on the other hand,no player should be immune from legitimate criticism. The days of a Royko or Holtzman lettin' loose on a high-paid,under performing player or the Org that signed/traded for the player with impunity are long gone my friend. Could any on-air announcer pull a 'Harry Carey-like' "he's hittin' .200....he weighs more than that" or "That wouldn't be a HR in a phonebooth" (LOL) when referring to a hometown player? Evan a 'Pat Foley-like' Karpovtsev rant would probably be troublesome nowadays. ...and that Karpo rant needed to be said. But, I'm a rat bastard that way. A buddy of mine also said Troy Murray on radio lit into the 2017 squad after they shat the bed in Nashville. I didn't hear it, but I heard it was epic. Stuff like that needs to happen a bit more in my opinion, not for little mistakes, but for the big ones. Unlike Crawford, every time Toews, Kane, Jones, etc. makes a mistake, a red light doesn't come on and 10-20k fans jeer or boo. Anyhow, just in case I'm not on, Happy Chanukwannzaramamas to you and everyone else here who I engage with in some smart hockey dialogue--or whatever you all celebrate! Fans are fickle and have their favorites who they give a pass to. I know I let some of 88's half hearted D zone play ride because I like his overall game. And national media broadcasters really play favorites and hop on bandwagons to a sickening extent. |
|
But, I'm a rat bastard that way.