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Post by hsbob on Nov 13, 2019 11:57:12 GMT -6
Sending Boqvist down would be an organizational failure just like moving Joker was and just like sending Dach down would be. This team needs to develop D-men and Centers at the NHL level and they need to do so starting yesterday,Q inherently knew this last fall when the Joker made the lineup and Boqvist just missed. More seasoning? We have a bunch of young D-men at Rockford and in other developmental leagues gettin'seasoned,it's about time the top D prospects start paying dividends with the big club. Joker was a right shot and was also ready to start paying that dividend before he was moved. Boqvist isn't only a better skater than Gus,he makes fewer glaring errors too and he's still 19 for God's sake.....he also balances out the R/L make up. I don't think anyone sees this team as more than MAYBE a run at the last spot if things gel and if that's the case,get these kids in there and get em more minutes than they've been getting. There's as good a chance of gelling with Boqvist and Dach playing bigger roles as there is if they don't IMO. Keith and Seabs games are aging along with their bodies,Maata and de Haan are fairly redundant stay at home,lefties and Murph has had problems staying healthy.....replacing any of these D-men has to come from within.....period! Very sound post. That's why on the BHB I voiced my "WTF" comments when they went and got de Haan, Maatta and traded Jokiharu and kept Gus. When they had a surplus of youth needing to be here for a true youth movement. I don't think this team is PO ready and probably won't get past 5 games in the 1st round. At least not the way it's constructed right now. Maybe things will change in a month or so, we will see. Couldn't agree more and I like both acquisitions but they're fairly redundant and Joker would have negated the need for one of em,he woulda saved the cap over 3M and he's a right shot. |
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Post by vadarx on Nov 13, 2019 15:40:53 GMT -6
Sending Boqvist down would be an organizational failure just like moving Joker was and just like sending Dach down would be. This team needs to develop D-men and Centers at the NHL level and they need to do so starting yesterday,Q inherently knew this last fall when the Joker made the lineup and Boqvist just missed. More seasoning? We have a bunch of young D-men at Rockford and in other developmental leagues gettin'seasoned,it's about time the top D prospects start paying dividends with the big club. Joker was a right shot and was also ready to start paying that dividend before he was moved. Boqvist isn't only a better skater than Gus,he makes fewer glaring errors too and he's still 19 for God's sake.....he also balances out the R/L make up. I don't think anyone sees this team as more than MAYBE a run at the last spot if things gel and if that's the case,get these kids in there and get em more minutes than they've been getting. There's as good a chance of gelling with Boqvist and Dach playing bigger roles as there is if they don't IMO. Keith and Seabs games are aging along with their bodies,Maata and de Haan are fairly redundant stay at home,lefties and Murph has had problems staying healthy.....replacing any of these D-men has to come from within.....period! while I agree with you that we need to improve from within, I have to disagree on not sending him down. Boqvist is not getting the ice time he needs in Chicago. neither is Dach, for that matter. we agree that these guys should be playing, but they aren't because the coach is coaching for his job rather than working to build up the team. same goes for the GM. neither Dach nor Boqvist should've been on the team this season. that isn't a statement as to their readiness, they both have looked like they belong in the league, imo. it is a statement on the state of the team. wasting a year of both of their ELC's is just completely asinine unless they are going to come in and play the amount of minutes you would expect from a top 4 d man and and top 6 forward. Boqvist has played 12 minutes the past 2 games and hasn't seen over 16 yet in a NHL game. Dach played is his last 5: 7:43, 9:02, 10:06, 12:37, and 7:29 in his last 5 games.... that is a ridiculous waste of what could have been a free year for both on their ELC, especially considering the constant financial pinch we seem to be in, and will be for the next few years. I get easing them in and I get that both look like they belong. but pissing away contract years when we are already tight with space for the next few years just seems very short sighted to me. all this feels like is marketing. it is a dog and pony show. this team would be doing the same with both of these guys working in the minors or juniors on what they need to improve for the Big Show. namely, getting stronger. instead, they are sitting on the bench at the UC every game so the brass can say "come see our new toys! buy shit!" via email and text before every home game cuz they aren't selling out. I am sure they are gleaning value info in their time in Chicago. I am sure practicing with the guys and playing against men could be helping.... but not enough that it couldn't have happened next season just as easily and both likely would've been stronger and more ready, especially Boqvist considering this is just his second season in North America. the long and short of it, I suppose is this: is the team better with these two lads on the team now? I would say no, they are not. so, for the long term health of the franchise and for these players development which is better: giving them another year to develop and then giving them a full go next year with the appropriate ice time or continuing with the short term cash grab marketing campaign bullshit we are involved in currently? cuz our desire to just play these guys probably isn't coming to fruition any time soon. it is already too late for Dach, it would be nice to see them do the right thing with Boqvist.... |
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Post by hawkinmontreal on Nov 13, 2019 17:04:01 GMT -6
Very sound post. That's why on the BHB I voiced my "WTF" comments when they went and got de Haan, Maatta and traded Jokiharu and kept Gus. When they had a surplus of youth needing to be here for a true youth movement. I don't think this team is PO ready and probably won't get past 5 games in the 1st round. At least not the way it's constructed right now. Maybe things will change in a month or so, we will see. Couldn't agree more and I like both acquisitions but they're fairly redundant and Joker would have negated the need for one of em,he woulda saved the cap over 3M and he's a right shot. Joker was moved because he was becoming an issue with the coach and management. The acquisitions of Matta and De Haan were made because Stan thinks the Hawks are legit playoff contenders and he is looking to save his job. |
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Post by galaxytrash on Nov 13, 2019 18:27:18 GMT -6
Joker was moved because he was becoming an issue with the coach and management. any chance you could quote a reference? i've heard rumblings about this but only on message boards. |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 13, 2019 19:14:22 GMT -6
Joker was moved because he was becoming an issue with the coach and management. any chance you could quote a reference? i've heard rumblings about this but only on message boards. I'd like to hear more about this 'issue' myself,Q had no 'issue' playing Joker on the top pair with Keith @19 and we all know Q's not a baby sitter. |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 13, 2019 19:41:54 GMT -6
Sending Boqvist down would be an organizational failure just like moving Joker was and just like sending Dach down would be. This team needs to develop D-men and Centers at the NHL level and they need to do so starting yesterday,Q inherently knew this last fall when the Joker made the lineup and Boqvist just missed. More seasoning? We have a bunch of young D-men at Rockford and in other developmental leagues gettin'seasoned,it's about time the top D prospects start paying dividends with the big club. Joker was a right shot and was also ready to start paying that dividend before he was moved. Boqvist isn't only a better skater than Gus,he makes fewer glaring errors too and he's still 19 for God's sake.....he also balances out the R/L make up. I don't think anyone sees this team as more than MAYBE a run at the last spot if things gel and if that's the case,get these kids in there and get em more minutes than they've been getting. There's as good a chance of gelling with Boqvist and Dach playing bigger roles as there is if they don't IMO. Keith and Seabs games are aging along with their bodies,Maata and de Haan are fairly redundant stay at home,lefties and Murph has had problems staying healthy.....replacing any of these D-men has to come from within.....period! while I agree with you that we need to improve from within, I have to disagree on not sending him down. Boqvist is not getting the ice time he needs in Chicago. neither is Dach, for that matter. we agree that these guys should be playing, but they aren't because the coach is coaching for his job rather than working to build up the team. same goes for the GM. neither Dach nor Boqvist should've been on the team this season. that isn't a statement as to their readiness, they both have looked like they belong in the league, imo. it is a statement on the state of the team. wasting a year of both of their ELC's is just completely asinine unless they are going to come in and play the amount of minutes you would expect from a top 4 d man and and top 6 forward. Boqvist has played 12 minutes the past 2 games and hasn't seen over 16 yet in a NHL game. Dach played is his last 5: 7:43, 9:02, 10:06, 12:37, and 7:29 in his last 5 games.... that is a ridiculous waste of what could have been a free year for both on their ELC, especially considering the constant financial pinch we seem to be in, and will be for the next few years. I get easing them in and I get that both look like they belong. but pissing away contract years when we are already tight with space for the next few years just seems very short sighted to me. all this feels like is marketing. it is a dog and pony show. this team would be doing the same with both of these guys working in the minors or juniors on what they need to improve for the Big Show. namely, getting stronger. instead, they are sitting on the bench at the UC every game so the brass can say "come see our new toys! buy shit!" via email and text before every home game cuz they aren't selling out. I am sure they are gleaning value info in their time in Chicago. I am sure practicing with the guys and playing against men could be helping.... but not enough that it couldn't have happened next season just as easily and both likely would've been stronger and more ready, especially Boqvist considering this is just his second season in North America. the long and short of it, I suppose is this: is the team better with these two lads on the team now? I would say no, they are not. so, for the long term health of the franchise and for these players development which is better: giving them another year to develop and then giving them a full go next year with the appropriate ice time or continuing with the short term cash grab marketing campaign bullshit we are involved in currently? cuz our desire to just play these guys probably isn't coming to fruition any time soon. it is already too late for Dach, it would be nice to see them do the right thing with Boqvist.... I understand not burning a year of the ELC but what if the team isn't competitive next year either,how long should they be kept down? The team is tight with space but probably won't be in three years when KK&T have one left and Seabs has two left....the cap should go up at least a few mil a year too. You say it's not a matter of readiness...….do you believe they're ready or not? You said they both look like they belong...….I agree. I agree that they should both see more TOI and I agree that JC and SB are only doing tings to protect their jobs but that might not be good for the Org in the long run. I also think practicing with the vets and playing against NHL competition is benificial We don't have to agree but I think the team is better with the two lads because talented young players develop faster in the NHL (IF) they have NHL ability and I believe both do. The team already has a large number of young D-men at Rockford,in Europe,in the OHL and NCAA,all of em can't be added in at the same time which could lead to some getting stale IMO. |
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Post by vadarx on Nov 13, 2019 23:42:37 GMT -6
of course Dach has a good game tonight, lol....
of course he got more ice time tonight, too. I have no problem with him staying up if they are gonna give him some damn ice time. keep him centering the third line, quit playing him on the fourth.
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Post by galaxytrash on Nov 14, 2019 9:35:03 GMT -6
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Post by T-man2010 on Nov 14, 2019 9:43:01 GMT -6
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Nov 14, 2019 9:43:28 GMT -6
I don't like that Gus and Koekkoek are on the roster when Boqvist showed he can play in the NHL and he's already better than both. But I like Murphy so it'll be good for Adam to play more minutes in Rockford. |
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Post by vonbeck on Nov 14, 2019 12:34:24 GMT -6
I don't like that Gus and Koekkoek are on the roster when Boqvist showed he can play in the NHL and he's already better than both. But I like Murphy so it'll be good for Adam to play more minutes in Rockford. Not a fan of either of those two, but at least Gus can be an "offensive" defensemen. I can't stand CoCo puffs, whatever needs to be done to get him out of town is cool with me. I agree Boqvist can play in the NHL, but giving more time to bake on the top pairing in Rockford won't hurt him at all. |
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Post by vadarx on Nov 14, 2019 14:36:53 GMT -6
shocker.
it'll be interesting to see when he gets his next call up, if he does at all (this season).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 15:00:55 GMT -6
any chance you could quote a reference? i've heard rumblings about this but only on message boards. I'd like to hear more about this 'issue' myself, Q had no 'issue' playing Joker on the top pair with Keith @19 and we all know Q's not a baby sitter. And there's the reason......Q liked Joker, Bowman needed to purge him because he didn't like Q |
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Post by irmaks on Nov 14, 2019 15:03:46 GMT -6
I'd like to hear more about this 'issue' myself, Q had no 'issue' playing Joker on the top pair with Keith @19 and we all know Q's not a baby sitter. And there's the reason......Q liked Joker, Bowman needed to purge him because he didn't like Q So I guess next one will be Boqvist because Q liked him. Pretty simple, now I understand some moves. |
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Post by hawkinmontreal on Nov 14, 2019 16:27:08 GMT -6
Joker was moved because he was becoming an issue with the coach and management. any chance you could quote a reference? i've heard rumblings about this but only on message boards. I actually heard this from Darren Dreger, he has a spot every Monday and Wednesday on the morning show on TSN 690for 10-15 mins he talks majority Habs and Leafs, but he touched upon this trade earlier in the season as a win win for both sides, citing that Jokers agent and Joker himself were not happen with his ice time and how he was being sent back and forth from the club to the AHL and how he was lazy in practice as well which didn’t sit well with JC. If you go through Darrens soundbites I am pretty sure you will come across it. |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 14, 2019 16:41:24 GMT -6
I'd like to hear more about this 'issue' myself, Q had no 'issue' playing Joker on the top pair with Keith @19 and we all know Q's not a baby sitter. And there's the reason......Q liked Joker, Bowman needed to purge him because he didn't like Q We're just speculatin' but I mentioned that last summer. Q played him on the top pair the first 15 games and as soon as Q went bye-bye,so did Joker's chances here. JC immediately cut his minutes,benched him in favor of Forskin then sent him down along with a comment about not having a "man-body".....he weighed 193lbs at the time.....WTF! I'm sure JC had a lot of input when they gave up on the young D-man last summer too. Kruger has no issue playing him every night. |
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Post by squishy24 on Nov 14, 2019 16:49:05 GMT -6
any chance you could quote a reference? i've heard rumblings about this but only on message boards. I actually heard this from Darren Dreger, he has a spot every Monday and Wednesday on the morning show on TSN 690for 10-15 mins he talks majority Habs and Leafs, but he touched upon this trade earlier in the season as a win win for both sides, citing that Jokers agent and Joker himself were not happen with his ice time and how he was being sent back and forth from the club to the AHL and how he was lazy in practice as well which didn’t sit well with JC. If you go through Darrens soundbites I am pretty sure you will come across it. I could have swore back during around this trade, reports came out about Joker not following the "suggested" summer training plan by the Hawks and stay here in the states. Joker instead chose to work out with his father in Finland. Can't find it now.
so far, the sabres won this trade. only because Joker is playing about 4min more than Nylander is. their pts output is close, but Joker is a dman. we'll see how the season goes
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Post by hsbob on Nov 14, 2019 16:54:13 GMT -6
any chance you could quote a reference? i've heard rumblings about this but only on message boards. I actually heard this from Darren Dreger, he has a spot every Monday and Wednesday on the morning show on TSN 690for 10-15 mins he talks majority Habs and Leafs, but he touched upon this trade earlier in the season as a win win for both sides, citing that Jokers agent and Joker himself were not happen with his ice time and how he was being sent back and forth from the club to the AHL and how he was lazy in practice as well which didn’t sit well with JC. If you go through Darrens soundbites I am pretty sure you will come across it. I don't blame him for bein' pissed about losing his spot to a career AHL'er like Forskin and since I don't attend Hawk or Hog's practices,I won't speculate like Dragger. He won't darken our door any more I guess and what do Joel Quenneville and Ralph Krueger know anyway? |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 14, 2019 16:57:09 GMT -6
And there's the reason......Q liked Joker, Bowman needed to purge him because he didn't like Q So I guess next one will be Boqvist because Q liked him. Pretty simple, now I understand some moves. Don't be too surprised,it looks like JC has little use for him too. |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 14, 2019 17:16:07 GMT -6
I don't like that Gus and Koekkoek are on the roster when Boqvist showed he can play in the NHL and he's already better than both. But I like Murphy so it'll be good for Adam to play more minutes in Rockford. Doesn't the "better than both" part stick in your craw just a bit? It's startin' to dawn on me that Gus is going NOWHERE,he was referred to as a "gift from God" and a "force of nature" by his coach last year...….how the fuck do you trade a gift from God?LOFL! They say it takes 200 (NHL) games to develop a young D-man,little league's for guys who ain't ready for the big leagues! This will also more than likely result in a deserving Hog D-man ridin' a bus to Indy...….that's gotta encourage a young guy! |
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Post by hawkinmontreal on Nov 14, 2019 17:17:50 GMT -6
I actually heard this from Darren Dreger, he has a spot every Monday and Wednesday on the morning show on TSN 690for 10-15 mins he talks majority Habs and Leafs, but he touched upon this trade earlier in the season as a win win for both sides, citing that Jokers agent and Joker himself were not happen with his ice time and how he was being sent back and forth from the club to the AHL and how he was lazy in practice as well which didn’t sit well with JC. If you go through Darrens soundbites I am pretty sure you will come across it. I don't blame him for bein' pissed about losing his spot to a career AHL'er like Forskin and since I don't attend Hawk or Hog's practices,I won't speculate like Dragger. He won't darken our door any more I guess and what do Joel Quenneville and Ralph Krueger know anyway? I don’t think Dreger is a speculator, he like Bob McKenzie are usually spot on when it comes to hockey information. Either way, it’s done now, we have all been around enough to know this won’t be the last stupid trade Stan does. |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 14, 2019 17:34:55 GMT -6
I don't blame him for bein' pissed about losing his spot to a career AHL'er like Forskin and since I don't attend Hawk or Hog's practices,I won't speculate like Dragger. He won't darken our door any more I guess and what do Joel Quenneville and Ralph Krueger know anyway? I don’t think Dreger is a speculator, he like Bob McKenzie are usually spot on when it comes to hockey information. Either way, it’s done now, we have all been around enough to know this won’t be the last stupid trade Stan does. They do say 'don't shoot the messenger'.....didn't mean to come across as snarky as that sounded. Even if this is true,it's hard to believe they'd give up on a 19yro D-man who already showed some NHL ability that SB himself drafted in the 1st round because he was pissed about being sent down or moped in a few practices. It's also hard to believe an old curmudgeon like Q would have a 19yro with an attitude in the opening night lineup. Maybe they just 'coveted' Nylander that much. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Nov 14, 2019 17:39:50 GMT -6
Seabs contract the final 2 years, 2022/2023, 2023/2024, becomes a Modified- NTC.
Now what team in his list will take that cap hit without the Hawks sweetening the pot?
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Post by hsbob on Nov 14, 2019 17:47:46 GMT -6
Seabs contract the final 2 years, 2022/2023, 2023/2024, becomes a Modified- NTC.
Now what team in his list will take that cap hit without the Hawks sweetening the pot?We both dam well know that wouldn't happen this year let when he's three years older. If his deal is that big a problem,they can bite the bullet and buy out his last two years like scores of other teams have done. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Nov 14, 2019 17:51:41 GMT -6
Seabs contract the final 2 years, 2022/2023, 2023/2024, becomes a Modified- NTC.
Now what team in his list will take that cap hit without the Hawks sweetening the pot?We both dam well know that wouldn't happen this year let when he's three years older. If his deal is that big a problem,they can bite the bullet and buy out his last two years like scores of other teams have done. Buying out his contract now saves almost nothing during the 4 years.  |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 14, 2019 18:02:58 GMT -6
We both dam well know that wouldn't happen this year let when he's three years older. If his deal is that big a problem,they can bite the bullet and buy out his last two years like scores of other teams have done. Buying out his contract now saves almost nothing during the 4 years. I meant the last two years you referred to when the M-NTC kicks in or they could just retain $$$. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Nov 14, 2019 18:11:57 GMT -6
Buying out his contract now saves almost nothing during the 4 years. I meant the last two years you referred to when the M-NTC kicks in or they could just retain $$$. I know, but the these next 2 years with the addition of de Haan and Maatta is going to stifle our youth group of Boqvist, Gilbert, Mitchell, Krys IMO I just want the team moving younger. But there will be ugly growing pains tho and the fans won't like the stepping back. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 18:20:30 GMT -6
I meant the last two years you referred to when the M-NTC kicks in or they could just retain $$$. I know, but the these next 2 years with the addition of de Haan and Maatta is going to stifle our youth group of Boqvist, Gilbert, Mitchell, Krys IMO I just want the team moving younger. But there will be ugly growing pains tho and the fans won't like the stepping back. But don't forget the expansion draft coming for Seattle might get at least one of these guys off the roster. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Nov 14, 2019 18:28:11 GMT -6
I know, but the these next 2 years with the addition of de Haan and Maatta is going to stifle our youth group of Boqvist, Gilbert, Mitchell, Krys IMO I just want the team moving younger. But there will be ugly growing pains tho and the fans won't like the stepping back. But don't forget the expansion draft coming for Seattle might get at least one of these guys off the roster. Yes and on that protected list we have K&T with Seabs and Keith. Now they can protect 4 more. Obviously D-Cat is one and I'll guess Lehner will be the other. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 19:14:09 GMT -6
But don't forget the expansion draft coming for Seattle might get at least one of these guys off the roster. Yes and on that protected list we have K&T with Seabs and Keith. Now they can protect 4 more. Obviously D-Cat is one and I'll guess Lehner will be the other. That's if Lehner stays on after this season. He may just be using this season to bolster his worth and look for closer to the $10 million some goalies are getting now. |
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