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Post by T-man2010 on Nov 14, 2019 19:21:16 GMT -6
Yes and on that protected list we have K&T with Seabs and Keith. Now they can protect 4 more. Obviously D-Cat is one and I'll guess Lehner will be the other. That's if Lehner stays on after this season. He may just be using this season to bolster his worth and look for closer to the $10 million some goalies are getting now. You got to think there is something in the works to sign him long term. But do you do that now or wait till near the end of the season. Don't want to upset the tandem working well together right now. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Nov 14, 2019 21:26:09 GMT -6
I don't blame him for bein' pissed about losing his spot to a career AHL'er like Forskin and since I don't attend Hawk or Hog's practices,I won't speculate like Dragger. He won't darken our door any more I guess and what do Joel Quenneville and Ralph Krueger know anyway? I don’t think Dreger is a speculator, he like Bob McKenzie are usually spot on when it comes to hockey information. Either way, it’s done now, we have all been around enough to know this won’t be the last stupid trade Stan does. Yeah Dreger is one of my favorites in regards to reporting things, like Mackenzie. I remember hearing that about him not training in Chicago. Maybe he was sent down because he never scored and he looked frustrated, teammates sense that and if his attitude was bad it was a good trade, that's how I'm justifying it. |
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Post by acesandeights on Nov 15, 2019 8:16:33 GMT -6
That's if Lehner stays on after this season. He may just be using this season to bolster his worth and look for closer to the $10 million some goalies are getting now. But do you do that now or wait till near the end of the season. Don't want to upset the tandem working well together right now. I would agree; they've watched Lehner put up good stats while facing a lot of shots so surely Stan has a long term plan in mind, and maybe has done a little preliminary work. If he doesn't, or if Lehner should price himself out of range, Stan will be at the mercy of the Free Agent goalie market in the offseason. The problem with the FA route is what if Stan & Co. really like a couple of guys and then sees them sign elsewhere. You might be forced to go to Plan C. Is it even known yet how deep or shallow the FA g market might be this offseason? |
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Post by T-man2010 on Nov 15, 2019 8:52:00 GMT -6
You got to think there is something in the works to sign him long term. But do you do that now or wait till near the end of the season. Don't want to upset the tandem working well together right now. I would agree; they've watched Lehner put up good stats while facing a lot of shots so surely Stan has a long term plan in mind, and maybe has done a little preliminary work. If he doesn't, or if Lehner should price himself out of range, Stan will be at the mercy of the Free Agent goalie market in the offseason. The problem with the FA route is what if Stan & Co. really like a couple of guys and then sees them sign elsewhere. You might be forced to go to Plan C. Is it even known yet how deep or shallow the FA g market might be this offseason? Here's the goalies list and year of FA. www.capfriendly.com/browse/active/2020/caphit/all/goalies&status=active-roster&display=expiry-year,length |
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Post by LordKOTL on Nov 15, 2019 9:03:51 GMT -6
If all holds as it's trending though...can the 'hawks afford not to sign Lehner?
Aside from Crawford, who may or may not be back next season, Who else there can put up a ton of saves on a ton of shots with good numbers? There isn't many: Greiss, Kuempner, Hellybuck, etc. are about the only ones.
Plus you have to figure comparables. Crawford's current deal is a good one, actually. They both have the same career SV% give-or-take. Lehner is a bit higher on the Vezina nomination chart, Crawford has 2 Jennings and 2 cups to his name. I did the math and for this years cap Crawford's 6 for 6 would be equivalent to about 7.6 for 6.
Or we might be able to go more cap for less duration--say 8 for 4. That's pretty much a fair price for a goalie who's not the Price/Bobross level but can still carry the team--as Crawford did in 2016 & 2018 and Lehner is doing now.
Either way the team D performance since 2016 should be a major consideration: It's sucked. Like royally sucked. Sucked like a teenage prostitute in Kobe Bryant's hotel room.
That being said we got guys like Boqvist coming up. It would be better for their development to have a guy in the net who can bail them out.
Granted, this whole problem would be a lot easier to solve if we didn't have a ton of dead cap on the roster.
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Post by squishy24 on Nov 15, 2019 9:10:26 GMT -6
You got to think there is something in the works to sign him long term. But do you do that now or wait till near the end of the season. Don't want to upset the tandem working well together right now. I would agree; they've watched Lehner put up good stats while facing a lot of shots so surely Stan has a long term plan in mind, and maybe has done a little preliminary work. If he doesn't, or if Lehner should price himself out of range, Stan will be at the mercy of the Free Agent goalie market in the offseason. The problem with the FA route is what if Stan & Co. really like a couple of guys and then sees them sign elsewhere. You might be forced to go to Plan C. Is it even known yet how deep or shallow the FA g market might be this offseason?
not very deep, if youre looking for a starter you'll be out of luck;
top 3 UFAs
holtby, crawford, lehner
current "starters" or 1B
craig anderson, mike smith, greiss, halak, howard, markstrom
back-ups
ryan miller, condon, talbot, khudobin, elliott, kinkaid, brossoit
meh
forsberg, berube, domingue, dell, sparks, hammond, hutchinson, lagace
based on that, Lehner holds all the cards, especially if he continues his great play throughout the year. would he even want to re-sign with the Hawks? according to most people this organization is a mess
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Post by hsbob on Nov 15, 2019 23:39:27 GMT -6
If all holds as it's trending though...can the 'hawks afford not to sign Lehner? Aside from Crawford, who may or may not be back next season, Who else there can put up a ton of saves on a ton of shots with good numbers? There isn't many: Greiss, Kuempner, Hellybuck, etc. are about the only ones. Plus you have to figure comparables. Crawford's current deal is a good one, actually. They both have the same career SV% give-or-take. Lehner is a bit higher on the Vezina nomination chart, Crawford has 2 Jennings and 2 cups to his name. I did the math and for this years cap Crawford's 6 for 6 would be equivalent to about 7.6 for 6. Or we might be able to go more cap for less duration--say 8 for 4. That's pretty much a fair price for a goalie who's not the Price/Bobross level but can still carry the team--as Crawford did in 2016 & 2018 and Lehner is doing now. Either way the team D performance since 2016 should be a major consideration: It's sucked. Like royally sucked. Sucked like a teenage prostitute in Kobe Bryant's hotel room. That being said we got guys like Boqvist coming up. It would be better for their development to have a guy in the net who can bail them out. Granted, this whole problem would be a lot easier to solve if we didn't have a ton of dead cap on the roster. Who’s the dead cap besides Seabrook,different message board same disdain for the multiple cup winners? |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 15, 2019 23:47:28 GMT -6
I don’t think Dreger is a speculator, he like Bob McKenzie are usually spot on when it comes to hockey information. Either way, it’s done now, we have all been around enough to know this won’t be the last stupid trade Stan does. Yeah Dreger is one of my favorites in regards to reporting things, like Mackenzie. I remember hearing that about him not training in Chicago. Maybe he was sent down because he never scored and he looked frustrated, teammates sense that and if his attitude was bad it was a good trade, that's how I'm justifying it. A kid who makes Q’s opening night lineup @19,helps his country win the WC and then goes on to start every game so far for Ralph Krueger has an attitude problem......you’re gonna have to find another way to justify that trade IMO. Every player who’s been moved has had their character questioned since Hartman which begs the question......why does SB keep acquiring bad character guys. |
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Post by acesandeights on Nov 16, 2019 9:17:24 GMT -6
I would agree; they've watched Lehner put up good stats while facing a lot of shots so surely Stan has a long term plan in mind, and maybe has done a little preliminary work. If he doesn't, or if Lehner should price himself out of range, Stan will be at the mercy of the Free Agent goalie market in the offseason. The problem with the FA route is what if Stan & Co. really like a couple of guys and then sees them sign elsewhere. You might be forced to go to Plan C. Is it even known yet how deep or shallow the FA g market might be this offseason?
not very deep, if youre looking for a starter you'll be out of luck;
top 3 UFAs
holtby, crawford, lehner
current "starters" or 1B
craig anderson, mike smith, greiss, halak, howard, markstrom
back-ups
ryan miller, condon, talbot, khudobin, elliott, kinkaid, brossoit
meh
forsberg, berube, domingue, dell, sparks, hammond, hutchinson, lagace
based on that, Lehner holds all the cards, especially if he continues his great play throughout the year. would he even want to re-sign with the Hawks? according to most people this organization is a mess
You're right; if Lehner can continue to play well, he'll be in a good bargaining position. It seems like Stan has several questions he'll have to address about the goalie situation. How much total money do they allocate to the two goalie positions. How much should the starter get. Who do they want as a starter; I would assume Lehner is the first choice. Who will be the backup. What do they do about Crawford. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Nov 16, 2019 9:35:48 GMT -6
not very deep, if youre looking for a starter you'll be out of luck;
top 3 UFAs
holtby, crawford, lehner
current "starters" or 1B
craig anderson, mike smith, greiss, halak, howard, markstrom
back-ups
ryan miller, condon, talbot, khudobin, elliott, kinkaid, brossoit
meh
forsberg, berube, domingue, dell, sparks, hammond, hutchinson, lagace
based on that, Lehner holds all the cards, especially if he continues his great play throughout the year. would he even want to re-sign with the Hawks? according to most people this organization is a mess
You're right; if Lehner can continue to play well, he'll be in a good bargaining position. It seems like Stan has several questions he'll have to address about the goalie situation. How much total money do they allocate to the two goalie positions. How much should the starter get. Who do they want as a starter; I would assume Lehner is the first choice. Who will be the backup. What do they do about Crawford. I wonder if Crow would take say 2-3 mil as a back-up to Lehner next year? Then offer Lehner say 8 mill? That could be a possibility. |
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Post by squishy24 on Nov 16, 2019 10:08:32 GMT -6
You're right; if Lehner can continue to play well, he'll be in a good bargaining position. It seems like Stan has several questions he'll have to address about the goalie situation. How much total money do they allocate to the two goalie positions. How much should the starter get. Who do they want as a starter; I would assume Lehner is the first choice. Who will be the backup. What do they do about Crawford. I wonder if Crow would take say 2-3 mil as a back-up to Lehner next year? Then offer Lehner say 8 mill? That could be a possibility. That would be nice but unlikely. I think only 1 of CC/lehner will be back. Your proposal will have 11m caphit. Thats the same now, no cap relief. Would CC retire? And maybe take a management position with the hawks? I read that him and his fiancee/wife just bought a new condo here in chicago just recently |
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Post by BigT on Nov 16, 2019 10:28:24 GMT -6
I wonder if Crow would take say 2-3 mil as a back-up to Lehner next year? Then offer Lehner say 8 mill? That could be a possibility. That would be nice but unlikely. I think only 1 of CC/lehner will be back. Your proposal will have 11m caphit. Thats the same now, no cap relief. Would CC retire? And maybe take a management position with the hawks? I read that him and his fiancee/wife just bought a new condo here in chicago just recently Remember, condos can be sold. I think with CC still putting up big numbers. I don’t see how he doesn’t take a one year 5-6 million deal? I could see teams like Edmonton, Calgary, Carolina, Nashville, and a few others looking for a shot at a Cup and overpaying CC. I don’t think CC will even want to stay. It looks like management wants the in with the new and out with the old. I just don’t see him staying, unless Lehner leaves, and gets 10+ million, I don’t see CC staying around here!!! |
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Post by LordKOTL on Nov 16, 2019 12:48:38 GMT -6
If all holds as it's trending though...can the 'hawks afford not to sign Lehner? Aside from Crawford, who may or may not be back next season, Who else there can put up a ton of saves on a ton of shots with good numbers? There isn't many: Greiss, Kuempner, Hellybuck, etc. are about the only ones. Plus you have to figure comparables. Crawford's current deal is a good one, actually. They both have the same career SV% give-or-take. Lehner is a bit higher on the Vezina nomination chart, Crawford has 2 Jennings and 2 cups to his name. I did the math and for this years cap Crawford's 6 for 6 would be equivalent to about 7.6 for 6. Or we might be able to go more cap for less duration--say 8 for 4. That's pretty much a fair price for a goalie who's not the Price/Bobross level but can still carry the team--as Crawford did in 2016 & 2018 and Lehner is doing now. Either way the team D performance since 2016 should be a major consideration: It's sucked. Like royally sucked. Sucked like a teenage prostitute in Kobe Bryant's hotel room. That being said we got guys like Boqvist coming up. It would be better for their development to have a guy in the net who can bail them out. Granted, this whole problem would be a lot easier to solve if we didn't have a ton of dead cap on the roster. Who’s the dead cap besides Seabrook,different message board same disdain for the multiple cup winners? No, just disdain for those posters who offer their chin as a genital rest for the core players.  Seriously: Seabrook, Gus, & Shaw are de facto dead cap unless they start playing better. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Nov 16, 2019 14:00:25 GMT -6
That would be nice but unlikely. I think only 1 of CC/lehner will be back. Your proposal will have 11m caphit. Thats the same now, no cap relief. Would CC retire? And maybe take a management position with the hawks? I read that him and his fiancee/wife just bought a new condo here in chicago just recently Remember, condos can be sold. I think with CC still putting up big numbers. I don’t see how he doesn’t take a one year 5-6 million deal? I could see teams like Edmonton, Calgary, Carolina, Nashville, and a few others looking for a shot at a Cup and overpaying CC. I don’t think CC will even want to stay. It looks like management wants the in with the new and out with the old. I just don’t see him staying, unless Lehner leaves, and gets 10+ million, I don’t see CC staying around here!!! They also just had a baby a few months ago, so I thought now having a family he would consider retiring. |
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Nov 16, 2019 14:11:29 GMT -6
Yeah Dreger is one of my favorites in regards to reporting things, like Mackenzie. I remember hearing that about him not training in Chicago. Maybe he was sent down because he never scored and he looked frustrated, teammates sense that and if his attitude was bad it was a good trade, that's how I'm justifying it. A kid who makes Q’s opening night lineup @19,helps his country win the WC and then goes on to start every game so far for Ralph Krueger has an attitude problem......you’re gonna have to find another way to justify that trade IMO. Every player who’s been moved has had their character questioned since Hartman which begs the question......why does SB keep acquiring bad character guys. I hated that trade and that's my way of justifying it, it doesn't mean it's right but it takes the sting away. I'd rather have character guys who might turnout to be bad characters than getting soft lifeless guys like Perlini, but you don't know how they'll fit until they get to Chicago. And Hartman didn't last long in Nashville 🤔 a well respected poster who has inside info posted about Hartman causing a divide in the locker room so it's not like it was just made up, similar to Darren Dregger reporting about Joker, doesn't mean he's a bad player so of course he's gonna play. |
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Post by hsbob on Nov 16, 2019 14:38:37 GMT -6
Who’s the dead cap besides Seabrook,different message board same disdain for the multiple cup winners? No, just disdain for those posters who offer their chin as a genital rest for the core players. Seriously: Seabrook, Gus, & Shaw are de facto dead cap unless they start playing better. Only on the inter-net jagoff! Like you don't have Hossa's DNA dribblin' down yours! |
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Post by T-man2010 on Nov 16, 2019 15:04:40 GMT -6
A kid who makes Q’s opening night lineup @19,helps his country win the WC and then goes on to start every game so far for Ralph Krueger has an attitude problem......you’re gonna have to find another way to justify that trade IMO. Every player who’s been moved has had their character questioned since Hartman which begs the question......why does SB keep acquiring bad character guys. I hated that trade and that's my way of justifying it, it doesn't mean it's right but it takes the sting away. I'd rather have character guys who might turnout to be bad characters than getting soft lifeless guys like Perlini, but you don't know how they'll fit until they get to Chicago. And Hartman didn't last long in Nashville 🤔 a well respected poster who has inside info posted about Hartman causing a divide in the locker room so it's not like it was just made up, similar to Darren Dregger reporting about Joker, doesn't mean he's a bad player so of course he's gonna play. Then he got traded to the Flyers. Now had bad are you if you get traded from the Flyers less than a year later? To the Wild even. |
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Post by T-man2010 on Nov 16, 2019 15:06:36 GMT -6
No, just disdain for those posters who offer their chin as a genital rest for the core players. Seriously: Seabrook, Gus, & Shaw are de facto dead cap unless they start playing better. Only on the inter-net jagoff! Like you don't have Hossa's DNA dribblin' down yours! BLASPHEMER!!!!  |
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Post by squishy24 on Nov 16, 2019 19:08:30 GMT -6
That would be nice but unlikely. I think only 1 of CC/lehner will be back. Your proposal will have 11m caphit. Thats the same now, no cap relief. Would CC retire? And maybe take a management position with the hawks? I read that him and his fiancee/wife just bought a new condo here in chicago just recently Remember, condos can be sold. I think with CC still putting up big numbers. I don’t see how he doesn’t take a one year 5-6 million deal? I could see teams like Edmonton, Calgary, Carolina, Nashville, and a few others looking for a shot at a Cup and overpaying CC. I don’t think CC will even want to stay. It looks like management wants the in with the new and out with the old. I just don’t see him staying, unless Lehner leaves, and gets 10+ million, I don’t see CC staying around here!!! youre correct about the money part. But regardless, i think only 1 of CC or Lehner gets re-signed. Otherwise that will be spending 11+ again on both |
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Post by hawkinmontreal on Nov 16, 2019 21:57:19 GMT -6
Remember, condos can be sold. I think with CC still putting up big numbers. I don’t see how he doesn’t take a one year 5-6 million deal? I could see teams like Edmonton, Calgary, Carolina, Nashville, and a few others looking for a shot at a Cup and overpaying CC. I don’t think CC will even want to stay. It looks like management wants the in with the new and out with the old. I just don’t see him staying, unless Lehner leaves, and gets 10+ million, I don’t see CC staying around here!!! youre correct about the money part. But regardless, i think only 1 of CC or Lehner gets re-signed. Otherwise that will be spending 11+ again on both That’s why I don’t see Lehner being signed until the summer, if the Hawks sign him, CC knows his time is done in Chicago and this could effect his play on ice, but if Lehner wants big bucks Stan may want to keep CC for another year. Stan needs to watch what he does, can’t disrespect CC even though his contract is finished after this season. |
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Post by BigT on Nov 17, 2019 7:53:30 GMT -6
youre correct about the money part. But regardless, i think only 1 of CC or Lehner gets re-signed. Otherwise that will be spending 11+ again on both That’s why I don’t see Lehner being signed until the summer, if the Hawks sign him, CC knows his time is done in Chicago and this could effect his play on ice, but if Lehner wants big bucks Stan may want to keep CC for another year. Stan needs to watch what he does, can’t disrespect CC even though his contract is finished after this season. I think CC has been disrespected. He took 3 good wallups over the past two years and the team didn’t do a gawd dman thing about it. I don’t believe the players didn’t want to, it’s in their DNA. I believe the org decided it’s best not to retaliate. I think if CC sustains any type of injury, he’ll retire after this year. Not sure he would risk it all. He’ll have made 40 million, no need to risk anymore. I will say this though. The way the Hawks play, they will need a tandem like the two we have. Can’t play run and gun with a backup like Forsberg. We’d have to get a backup that is fine with seeing a lot of shots. Ideally I’d like to see both back, but we’ll see. I really doubt it, I can’t see the Hawks not trying to keep Lehner. They have to, but an 8 year deal at this point may be redundant, especially at 8-9 million. If, he would stay for around 7, I’d do it, but I doubt he does, unless he’s sick of having a new zip code every year!!! |
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Post by jacksalmon on Nov 17, 2019 9:36:33 GMT -6
That’s why I don’t see Lehner being signed until the summer, if the Hawks sign him, CC knows his time is done in Chicago and this could effect his play on ice, but if Lehner wants big bucks Stan may want to keep CC for another year. Stan needs to watch what he does, can’t disrespect CC even though his contract is finished after this season. I think CC has been disrespected. He took 3 good wallups over the past two years and the team didn’t do a gawd dman thing about it. I don’t believe the players didn’t want to, it’s in their DNA. I believe the org decided it’s best not to retaliate. I think if CC sustains any type of injury, he’ll retire after this year. Not sure he would risk it all. He’ll have made 40 million, no need to risk anymore. I will say this though. The way the Hawks play, they will need a tandem like the two we have. Can’t play run and gun with a backup like Forsberg. We’d have to get a backup that is fine with seeing a lot of shots. Ideally I’d like to see both back, but we’ll see. I really doubt it, I can’t see the Hawks not trying to keep Lehner. They have to, but an 8 year deal at this point may be redundant, especially at 8-9 million. If, he would stay for around 7, I’d do it, but I doubt he does, unless he’s sick of having a new zip code every year!!! There is always some problem, so the goalie problem is just another one. I agree that the Hawks have to try to keep Lehner. But, who knows how much money he wants. With Crawford's injuries, if the Hawks can sign Lehner maybe Crow would enjoy a real back-up spot at less money with much less risk. That can't be the worse thing for Cory, but who knows if he still has the fire to be a #1 goalie somewhere. We're all just guessing here, but given the age difference and the fact that Lehner is Crawford's equivalent, if not the better goalie, he has to be the #1 choice to resign. But, does he like the team and how much money does he think he deserves are big questions that can't be answered at this point. Maybe if he can see that he can drive the team to the playoffs this year, he will give them a break to hang around for awhile with an improving team. |
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Post by Modry-Jazyk on Nov 17, 2019 14:20:53 GMT -6
Who’s the dead cap besides Seabrook,different message board same disdain for the multiple cup winners? No, just disdain for those posters who offer their chin as a genital rest for the core players. Seriously: Seabrook, Gus, & Shaw are de facto dead cap unless they start playing better. My definition of dead cap is difference between minimum possible and actual cap spent on specific spot/position (at plusminus same quality).
Ie : If some 1.65M dman can do the same job as 6.75M Seabrook, then dead cap actually would be 5M (not 6.75M).If some 6M forward would be able to do same job as 10.5M Toews then dead cap would be 4M. (all numbers are only examples, I dont want to speculate about true values here)
But as for Gus (this is the point of my reply), he can't be any dead cap because he's cheap 1.2M player and you can hardly replace him (and similar players) with someone else who is significantly cheaper
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Post by LordKOTL on Nov 17, 2019 16:44:49 GMT -6
No, just disdain for those posters who offer their chin as a genital rest for the core players. Seriously: Seabrook, Gus, & Shaw are de facto dead cap unless they start playing better. My definition of dead cap is difference between minimum possible and actual cap spent on specific spot/position (at plusminus same quality).
Ie : If some 1.65M dman can do the same job as 6.75M Seabrook, then dead cap actually would be 5M (not 6.75M).If some 6M forward would be able to do same job as 10.5M Toews then dead cap would be 4M. (all numbers are only examples, I dont want to speculate about true values here)
But as for Gus (this is the point of my reply), he can't be any dead cap because he's cheap 1.2M player and you can hardly replace him (and similar players) with someone else who is significantly cheaper
Mine is based on the cost per player vs. their complete output vs. expected deployment less the league minimum--at least for de-facto complete dead cap. After all, We're not going to rate, say, Kane on play in all three zones--that's not his deployment. Is he expected to score in bunches? Sure, so that's the benchmark. Meanwhile a guy like Keith is expected to be solid in the back end. Has he? Sure--after a slow start he's looking like he did last season. So yeah, a guy like Seabs is complete dead cap at this point. He's barely a 6-7 guy. Can Boqvist play better? Survey says: Yes. Ditto with Gus--who's a 13th FWD. |
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Post by vadarx on Nov 18, 2019 13:43:06 GMT -6
welp, keep Dach up. lol. let him play, though. I'd like to see him with Toews and Saad maybe. if we slow down with the scoring here, anyway.
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Post by galaxytrash on Nov 18, 2019 16:28:48 GMT -6
BLASPHEMER!!!!  shoe in. |
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Post by hawkfaninpdx on Nov 20, 2019 18:32:24 GMT -6
Just read that Mike Babcock was fired by the the Leafs. Maybe the Hawks should consider hiring him.
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Post by OldTimeHawky on Nov 20, 2019 20:28:21 GMT -6
Just read that Mike Babcock was fired by the the Leafs. Maybe the Hawks should consider hiring him. Hell no, he was only good when Detroit had great players, almost anyone could coach team Canada and he has really good players in Toronto and lost 5 in a row. But now that I said that Colliton will probably be let go for Mr Chin. |
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Post by vadarx on Nov 20, 2019 21:34:22 GMT -6
years ago I would've been very happy to have Babcock. now, not so much. I am sure, however, if JC and co do poorly the rest if the way this year that he (Babs) will be on the short list of replacements....
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Post by Tater on Nov 21, 2019 2:03:49 GMT -6
Just read that Mike Babcock was fired by the the Leafs. Maybe the Hawks should consider hiring him.
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