30
|
|
Post by hsbob on Jan 10, 2020 20:58:18 GMT -6
The Sens gave him 2.25MX3 and the Sabres one for 4M.....other than that,he hasn't had the chance to clean up and he's a fool to pass it up. For the life of me,I can't figure out why he took a cheap,one year with the worst defensive team in the league last summer......dude got an agent? I would guess that he needed another good season to show that a) his great season last year wasn't just a product of playing for the best defensive coach in the league and b) that his issues regarding mental health were not something anyone needed to worry about long term. either he is traded at the deadline cuz we've sucked the next month or he is given a huge deal by SB before the season is out if we are still remotely in the playoff race at the deadline. those are my guesses. Last year with the Isle was his best season but his numbers with Ott and Buf were those of a starter and so are his career numbers...… a quality starter. You and T-man are probably right though......off ice issues may have limited his opportunities last summer. |
|
|
|
Post by T-man2010 on Jan 10, 2020 21:05:45 GMT -6
What if SB says to Crow he is going to offer Lehner a big contract and would you stay as a back-up for cheap? If not would you accept a trade to a contending team? If they give Lehner 7M let's say,the team can't afford a 3M backup IMO unless SB's gonna continue to piss money away like he did last summer. Do we consider Lehner as an "elite" goalie worth 4-5 years at 8M? Till he's 34-35 years old. If Crow says NO!, then we go with Tomkins or Lankinen as backup. I'm thinking SB wants Crow to accept either the lesser role, or traded by March. Just spitballin here some ideas. |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Jan 10, 2020 21:11:32 GMT -6
If they give Lehner 7M let's say,the team can't afford a 3M backup IMO unless SB's gonna continue to piss money away like he did last summer. Do we consider Lehner as an "elite" goalie worth 4-5 years at 8M? Till he's 34-35 years old. If Crow says NO!, then we go with Tomkins or Lankinen as backup. I'm thinking SB wants Crow to accept either the lesser role, or traded by March. Just spitballin here some ideas. I hear ya T-man,this whole side show is a fluid situation at this point. It sounds like Lehner will look for term and $$$ and who can blame him but his value at the TDL becomes a huge factor as does Crawford's. |
|
|
|
Post by shooter61 on Jan 10, 2020 21:16:13 GMT -6
I agree, what is the price of a good starter now, if Lehner goes , what do you pay crow, and if anything ever happened to crow,what then , what about a 6 years at 6M he has to be worth that, he would be 34, I think it should be something to consider
|
|
|
|
Post by shooter61 on Jan 10, 2020 21:19:54 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by OldTimeHawky on Jan 10, 2020 22:10:53 GMT -6
What if SB says to Crow he is going to offer Lehner a big contract and would you stay as a back-up for cheap? If not would you accept a trade to a contending team? If they give Lehner 7M let's say,the team can't afford a 3M backup IMO unless SB's gonna continue to piss money away like he did last summer. Hopefully it's more like 6mill but even 7 is ok as long as it's not a long contract, then let Lankinen, Delia, Tomkins or someone else making 1mill or less fight to be his backup. He said after signing with the Hawks he did it because he's confident in his abilities so he'd take a 1yr deal to prove last year wasn't a fluke. Plus he knows his bipolar disorder will be brought up in negotiations so he won't ask for crazy money like Price or Bob. |
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Jan 10, 2020 23:41:11 GMT -6
If they give Lehner 7M let's say,the team can't afford a 3M backup IMO unless SB's gonna continue to piss money away like he did last summer. Hopefully it's more like 6mill but even 7 is ok as long as it's not a long contract, then let Lankinen, Delia, Tomkins or someone else making 1mill or less fight to be his backup. He said after signing with the Hawks he did it because he's confident in his abilities so he'd take a 1yr deal to prove last year wasn't a fluke. Plus he knows his bipolar disorder will be brought up in negotiations so he won't ask for crazy money like Price or Bob. I’ll try and find the Twitter, but someone asked Lehner if he’d give the Hawks a discount. He said “No, I’ve given nothing but discounts, this one is for me”. So I think he’s going for the cash. I think he gets at least 8. But that’s just me!!! |
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Jan 10, 2020 23:42:45 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by OldTimeHawky on Jan 10, 2020 23:52:13 GMT -6
Hopefully it's more like 6mill but even 7 is ok as long as it's not a long contract, then let Lankinen, Delia, Tomkins or someone else making 1mill or less fight to be his backup. He said after signing with the Hawks he did it because he's confident in his abilities so he'd take a 1yr deal to prove last year wasn't a fluke. Plus he knows his bipolar disorder will be brought up in negotiations so he won't ask for crazy money like Price or Bob. I’ll try and find the Twitter, but someone asked Lehner if he’d give the Hawks a discount. He said “No, I’ve given nothing but discounts, this one is for me”. So I think he’s going for the cash. I think he gets at least 8. But that’s just me!!! Yeah I read that and that's why I asked what he considers a discount, if it's 4-5 that's fair but if he'll take 6-7 for a few years Stan should do it. 8+, take offers. Either way this team is a mess. |
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Jan 11, 2020 0:15:39 GMT -6
I’ll try and find the Twitter, but someone asked Lehner if he’d give the Hawks a discount. He said “No, I’ve given nothing but discounts, this one is for me”. So I think he’s going for the cash. I think he gets at least 8. But that’s just me!!! Yeah I read that and that's why I asked what he considers a discount, if it's 4-5 that's fair but if he'll take 6-7 for a few years Stan should do it. 8+, take offers. Either way this team is a mess. I can’t see him taking 4-5 million. He has elite numbers on a horrible team. If he took 7, it wouldn’t be unheard of, but I’d have to think 8 would be more like it. We’ll see soon enough. History tells us that goalies traded at the deadline done usually net that much return, but, there’s always exceptions to the rule, and I feel Lehner could get us a late 1st or a couple seconds!!! |
|
|
|
Post by OldTimeHawky on Jan 11, 2020 0:23:21 GMT -6
Yeah I read that and that's why I asked what he considers a discount, if it's 4-5 that's fair but if he'll take 6-7 for a few years Stan should do it. 8+, take offers. Either way this team is a mess. I can’t see him taking 4-5 million. He has elite numbers on a horrible team. If he took 7, it wouldn’t be unheard of, but I’d have to think 8 would be more like it. We’ll see soon enough. History tells us that goalies traded at the deadline done usually net that much return, but, there’s always exceptions to the rule, and I feel Lehner could get us a late 1st or a couple seconds!!! I meant if he thinks that 4-5 million is a hometown discount I'd agree and he should pass. Knowing Stan he'll start the negotiations at 8 million 🙄 I'd start with 6mill for 3yrs. |
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Jan 11, 2020 0:24:49 GMT -6
honestly, unless we pick it up and start making a serious run at the playoffs here, I'd say Lehner will be in high demand at the deadline and the most certain trade chip to bring back a good return (minus one Patrick Kane, obviously). so, with that in mind, I'd say the likelihood of Lehner being here next season is pretty slim. I won't be shocked if Crow hangs em up, either, so there is a fair chance we are looking at 2 new netminders in 20-21, as I doubt Lehner returns after being traded unless we offer him a big contract with term.
|
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Jan 11, 2020 0:26:22 GMT -6
Yeah I read that and that's why I asked what he considers a discount, if it's 4-5 that's fair but if he'll take 6-7 for a few years Stan should do it. 8+, take offers. Either way this team is a mess. I can’t see him taking 4-5 million. He has elite numbers on a horrible team. If he took 7, it wouldn’t be unheard of, but I’d have to think 8 would be more like it. We’ll see soon enough. History tells us that goalies traded at the deadline done usually net that much return, but, there’s always exceptions to the rule, and I feel Lehner could get us a late 1st or a couple seconds!!! I think he can fetch a first considering there are a few contenders right now looking for a goalie. Carolina comes to mind and SB has made a few trades with them. I could see them giving up a first for him at the deadline. |
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Jan 11, 2020 8:03:31 GMT -6
I can’t see him taking 4-5 million. He has elite numbers on a horrible team. If he took 7, it wouldn’t be unheard of, but I’d have to think 8 would be more like it. We’ll see soon enough. History tells us that goalies traded at the deadline done usually net that much return, but, there’s always exceptions to the rule, and I feel Lehner could get us a late 1st or a couple seconds!!! I think he can fetch a first considering there are a few contenders right now looking for a goalie. Carolina comes to mind and SB has made a few trades with them. I could see them giving up a first for him at the deadline. I look at Calgary, Vancouver, Edmonton, SJ, Carolina all could use goaltending help and Lehner would push any of those teams into the playoffs and possibly further. Right now the best plan is to trade Saad, Lehner, Maatta, Gustafsson, Smith, if Shaw’s healthy enough I trade him. This way we can get the cap under control, get some really nice assets, and move forward. I think having 2-3 first rounders and a couple second rounders is the way to go. Then we can build from within, and have the cap space to keep everyone going forward. All it’ll take is 2 more drafts at the bottom. Even if we get a 4th overall and a 2nd overall in the next couple years, that’ll help immensely. Add in 2-3 more first rounders after them and we are on the right path for sure. I’d also prefer MacIvor making the deals at the TDL if you know what I mean!!! |
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Jan 11, 2020 9:03:57 GMT -6
I'd take the Sharks off that list. they are stewed now with Couture our for a month +.
with our capacity to retain some salary, we should be an appealing trade partner for some contenders - should we be sellers at the deadline.
|
|
|
|
Post by acesandeights on Jan 11, 2020 9:11:32 GMT -6
Here was one comment by Lehner in the article.
‘‘It’s a different summer this summer than last summer,’’ he said. ‘‘The market, it’s quite a lot . . . of teams that need goalies. And there’s not that many goalies that are available this season.’’
Ben Pope also mentioned in the article that Lehner might be the top goalie that will become a UFA.
At 28, who could blame Lehner for wanting to get a big contract for a longer term? And at 28, who could blame Lehner for wanting to go to a contender. If he stayed in Chicago, how old would he be before the Hawks became a Cup contender again? Rome wasn't built in a day.
|
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Jan 11, 2020 9:47:58 GMT -6
There are so many factors that go into the current goaltender situation.....what are the odds Ol Stanbo gets this right?
Even a self appointed semi-expert like me has no clue!LOL!
It was a short time ago around here when paying CC 6M was a terrible idea to many,when paying any elite GT huge money was a terrible idea to many......teams with the high paid GT's don't win anything said many. What's changed?
Keeping Lehner,much like keeping Kane and Toews will ensure the team is never bad enough to see those top 3-5 picks we all know are needed. Keeping Lehner will also envolve a huge cap hit for a long time for a team that should be rebuilding...…...does the front office really know if they're rebuilding or do they still claim playoff team?
|
|
|
|
Post by BigT on Jan 11, 2020 11:43:16 GMT -6
There are so many factors that go into the current goaltender situation.....what are the odds Ol Stanbo gets this right? Even a self appointed semi-expert like me has no clue!LOL! It was a short time ago around here when paying CC 6M was a terrible idea to many,when paying any elite GT huge money was a terrible idea to many......teams with the high paid GT's don't win anything said many. What's changed? Keeping Lehner,much like keeping Kane and Toews will ensure the team is never bad enough to see those top 3-5 picks we all know are needed. Keeping Lehner will also envolve a huge cap hit for a long time for a team that should be rebuilding...…...does the front office really know if they're rebuilding or do they still claim playoff team? Ideally I’d have to think that the org would let Stan proclaim it’s a playoff team. Then if they fail he’s done. Then the new guy can sell the rebuilding plan. But again, that’s ideally what should happen!!! |
|
|
|
Post by Modry-Jazyk on Jan 11, 2020 12:02:53 GMT -6
In case anyone hasn't seen it..... www.nhl.com/news/goalie-robin-lehner-open-to-resigning-with-blackhawks/c-313763644You gotta appreciate the guy's unedited,honest approach but some things can be left un-said too unless SB already made a lowball offer. As much as I like Lehner,I don't see a max term 7-8M deal myself,he's definitely an above average tender but he still gives up a LOT of rebounds. Only three of the top ten highest paid GT's have won a cup if you count Fleury and only five are currently over .500. thanks for link to article, he's really honest guy and I like such ppl in the world of hypocrisy and political corectness. He's one of the best but sample is still small for some megacontract.Also Hawks are not Cup contender, no reason to push the things.Hawks should trade him to some of top teams and find someone younger to Corey Crawford for the next season. |
|
|
|
Post by acesandeights on Jan 11, 2020 12:38:45 GMT -6
bob, you posed a great question in your first sentence earlier about what are the odds Stan gets the goaltender situation right. For the last several years Stan has had Corey as his mainstay in net that they could depend on, minus some injury time, leaving Stan with just the backup spot to worry about.
With both g's having contracts that expire this season, and CC now being 35, Stan now has both the #1 and #2 spots to worry about. As you say, will he get it right?
|
|
|
|
Post by T-man2010 on Jan 11, 2020 13:06:49 GMT -6
The only thing I see is IF we get any good trade values for whom everyone mentions, it will be 5 years minimum before we see results.
By then K&T will be done and we need to replace 2 more top tier guys. Not to mention Keith will be done and lord knows we don't have top 2 Dmen ready. We would have had they not been dealt away.
|
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Jan 11, 2020 15:55:55 GMT -6
bob, you posed a great question in your first sentence earlier about what are the odds Stan gets the goaltender situation right. For the last several years Stan has had Corey as his mainstay in net that they could depend on, minus some injury time, leaving Stan with just the backup spot to worry about. With both g's having contracts that expire this season, and CC now being 35, Stan now has both the #1 and #2 spots to worry about. As you say, will he get it right? If I recall,the last time SB had to deal with the goaltender situation,we ended up with Forsberg,Berube and Glass.....not a NHL tender in the bunch! |
|
|
|
Post by hsbob on Jan 11, 2020 16:11:56 GMT -6
The only thing I see is IF we get any good trade values for whom everyone mentions, it will be 5 years minimum before we see results. By then K&T will be done and we need to replace 2 more top tier guys. Not to mention Keith will be done and lord knows we don't have top 2 Dmen ready. We would have had they not been dealt away. And THIS s precisely the cycle we're caught in and it's been a dog chasing it's tail the last two or three years. Everybody knows I'm as loyal as hell to the core players for what they've done but we're at a point where we can no longer win with them due to a few different factors including mismanagement like the last two summers. This Org has refused to admit the party's over......how long will they continue to? WHAT NOW? Does it depend on whether or not we can beat the Ducks tonight? How many of the next dozen we can win? Two dozen? Does the FO know where this team is at right here and now? I still enjoy the W's and I'd still like to see some postseason action but what are the chances of any success what so ever if we can sneak in? You,me and the rest of us can speculate but WE don't need to know the answers to these questions,my concern is the people who DO need to have the answers have few. |
|
|
|
Post by OldTimeHawky on Jan 11, 2020 22:41:35 GMT -6
Unless Lehner is asking for stupid money you don't let a 6'4" 240lb goalie who's 28 and just entering his prime walk, lock him up till he's 31-32. Don't give him a longer contract unless he takes 5mill but he probably wants 7-8. 7mill for 3yrs seems fair when the backup will be making 1mill or less.
8 million for two goalies is a good number against the cap.
|
|
|
|
Post by vadarx on Jan 11, 2020 23:25:47 GMT -6
Unless Lehner is asking for stupid money you don't let a 6'4" 240lb goalie who's 28 and just entering his prime walk, lock him up till he's 31-32. Don't give him a longer contract unless he takes 5mill but he probably wants 7-8. 7mill for 3yrs seems fair when the backup will be making 1mill or less. 8 million for two goalies is a good number against the cap. I feel pretty confident that he is gonna want money and term on his next contract. |
|
|
|
Post by galaxytrash on Jan 11, 2020 23:35:15 GMT -6
Unless Lehner is asking for stupid money you don't let a 6'4" 240lb goalie who's 28 and just entering his prime walk, lock him up till he's 31-32. Don't give him a longer contract unless he takes 5mill but he probably wants 7-8. 7mill for 3yrs seems fair when the backup will be making 1mill or less. 8 million for two goalies is a good number against the cap. I feel pretty confident that he is gonna want money and term on his next contract. i do to i'm sad to say. too bad. i'd love to be a playoff team with him (and crow) as our 'tenders. i could see lehner carrying a team on his back for a round or two. not sure it'll be this team this year. |
|
|
|
Post by OldTimeHawky on Jan 11, 2020 23:52:54 GMT -6
Unless Lehner is asking for stupid money you don't let a 6'4" 240lb goalie who's 28 and just entering his prime walk, lock him up till he's 31-32. Don't give him a longer contract unless he takes 5mill but he probably wants 7-8. 7mill for 3yrs seems fair when the backup will be making 1mill or less. 8 million for two goalies is a good number against the cap. I feel pretty confident that he is gonna want money and term on his next contract. 4yrs at 7-8 seems fair. We'll see how it plays out. |
|
|
|
Post by OldTimeHawky on Jan 11, 2020 23:54:07 GMT -6
I feel pretty confident that he is gonna want money and term on his next contract. i do to i'm sad to say. too bad. i'd love to be a playoff team with him (and crow) as our 'tenders. i could see lehner carrying a team on his back for a round or two. not sure it'll be this team this year. Yeah that'd be sweet to see but unlikely it'll happen. |
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Jan 12, 2020 8:43:25 GMT -6
For most of the second half of Tony O's career (mid to late 1970s), the Blackhawks were a dreadful hockey team.
Many of the players were either too old (Mikita, Dennis Hull, Keith Magnuson etc) or too young (Bob Murray, Doug Wilson etc) to really get the job done. Esposito carried the team on his back most nights. The team always made the playoffs, but then always lost in the first round.
It was not until Bob Pulford decided to blow things up and replace most of the roster with kids that things changed and the team became competitive again.
The Hawks can choose to tread water and be a middling team for next half decade. Re-signing Lehner pretty much guarantees that.
I would prefer Big-T's approach. Trade away Lehner, Saad, Maata, Gus, and perhaps Keith and Crawford (if they are interested) for picks and prospects at the deadline.
Sign UFAs to one year deals over the summer. Trade them away again next spring.
|
|
|
|
Post by mvr on Jan 12, 2020 13:06:21 GMT -6
Too often, star goalies decline quickly after signing big contracts.
We have been down this road before with both Huet and Khabibulin. Price and Quick are not what they were, but both carry enormous contracts. Would Tallon like to turn back the clock on the contract he gave out last summer? Perhaps.
Instead of re-signing Lehner long term, the more prudent approach would be to offer Crawford a short (one or two year) deal at $2.5 M/year. Then sign a quality backup over the summer, or promote a Rockford goalie.
Georgiev is on the market, according to Elliote Friedman. Would the Rangers take Sikura for him?
|
|
