Toews

[BigT]

Sept 28, 2020 11:47:00 GMT -6 vadarx said:

Sept 28, 2020 5:45:23 GMT -6 BigT said:

The NFL has a TV deal that’ll carry them through the times. The NHL makes nothing on TV, and they need fans in the seats to make ends meet. Ontario isn’t even allowing anyone from America in, and neither is the rest of Canada. Anything can happen, but like Merp said, she does the cycle break? I think this upcoming year will be tossed out and start fresh next October or even September. Without fans, the league cannot afford to pay players. Just like the CFL, without fans they were forced to cancel!!!

if the NHL makes nothing from TV then why did they force a playoff this summer? why does the cap rising usually coincide with a new TV deal?

asses in the seats line the pockets of the owners who cry poor even more, but those sweet TV deals and merchandising opportunities is what keeps them (the owners) invested in the teams.

I highly recommend checking out a few sites that explain the CBA. Ive read a few and it’s fantastic to learn about it. The owners and players have a deal where the money is split 50/50. The Tv money is estimated to be worth less than 500 million a year. Divide that by half and the players receive 250 million or less what ever the actual number really is. 250 million does not go very far in players salaries. Even if merch reaches 100 million in sales, (I’m aiming high here), the layers are entitled to half which is 50 million. So let’s say the players have 300 million allocated to them. 31 teams divided into 300 million is under 10 million per team for a salary cap doesn’t go very far at all.

So even if my numbers are wayyyyyyy off. Like even if that number is doubled, 20 million per team is not gonna do much. If I was an owner, and had to pay more then I made, I wouldn’t want to. When you factor in coaches, management, scouts, AHL contracts, PR personnel, other office staff, hotels, food, planes etc. The average owner would lose 60-80 million. I wouldn’t do that personally, and I love the sport. With the raw numbers, I just don’t see a season happening unless the players take a massive concession. And I mean massive. Top players would only be making a million or 2.

So I just don’t see anything happening. But I’ve been wrong before. And we never know.

As for this year. The players were already paid and their half was roughly 25 million of the 50 million in playoff revenue they said was generated by TV and merch etc. They used 2 arenas, and the owners didn’t lose anything, but barely made anything. Maybe a million each. So, this is not feasible moving forward. It just isn’t. They scraped by this year, but for a whole new season it not going to be worth it, that’s what I take from all the articles I’ve read!!!

[mvr]

Bob: Even if Debrincat rebounds to consistently score 40 goals a year, he would not be worth $6 +M in my lineup, at least not until he has demonstrated the ability to perform in the big games in the playoffs.

At least to this point, he does not do enough of the other things necessary to win games. Is the potential there for him to become an all round player? Perhaps. He certainly disappointed in the playoffs this year.

I have never complained of players like Seabrook and Toews being paid for "past performance" (though I do think their contracts are a bit too long). Four or five year deals should be the max.

[hsbob]

Sept 28, 2020 18:37:41 GMT -6 mvr said:

Bob: Even if Debrincat rebounds to consistently score 40 goals a year, he would not be worth $6 +M in my lineup, at least not until he has demonstrated the ability to perform in the big games in the playoffs.

At least to this point, he does not do enough of the other things necessary to win games. Is the potential there for him to become an all round player? Perhaps. He certainly disappointed in the playoffs this year.

I have never complained of players like Seabrook and Toews being paid for "past performance" (though I do think their contracts are a bit too long). Four or five year deals should be the max.

He can score 40 a year and he's not in your lineup? I'm sorry I forgot we were talking about a talented,young AMERICAN player here.....your opinion no longer surprises me once I remembered that fact. 

Name the forwards on this team other than JT that are all around.......you can't! Name the forwards on this team that are tough.......you can't! Six points in his first nine PO games is a disappointment but a center with eight goals who can't win a draw is the heir apparent......L.....O.....F.....L!  

[shooter61]

Cat, according to what I see and what other 's say is very good in his end, and always works hard, he was getting chances they just were not going in, to kick him to the side because of 1 bad year is short sighted, and to pick on our 18 year old rookie for not winning draws , is just being mean, you guys are so so negative , how did you guys ever live through the 70s and 80s

[hsbob]

Sept 29, 2020 9:20:56 GMT -6 shooter61 said:

Cat, according to what I see and what other 's say is very good in his end, and always works hard, he was getting chances they just were not going in, to kick him to the side because of 1 bad year is short sighted, and to pick on our 18 year old rookie for not winning draws , is just being mean, you guys are so so negative , how did you guys ever live through the 70s and 80s

I'll be REAL quick to give the talented young Dach credit if he can become a 1LC or a 2LC but that requires winning draws which he's never done well at any level and the league's a lot meaner than some puke like me on a message board my friend.
He looked like his game improved between the stop and start back,let's hope FO's improve too or he's a wing. 

[mvr]

The issue is all about the money.

When constrained by a cap, teams need to be smart about how they spend their money.

If Debrincat is making $3-4 M, I would welcome him in my lineup. He is not starting next year.

One-dimensional small forwards (Canadian or American) who produce second line offensive numbers are not that difficult to find. A team does not need to spend $ 6 + million to find these kind of players.

Debrincat needs playmakers to set him up. He does not generate offence on his own. He took many games off last year, and he was not a consistent factor in the playoffs by any stretch.

[T-man2010]

Sept 29, 2020 11:28:26 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Sept 29, 2020 9:20:56 GMT -6 shooter61 said:

Cat, according to what I see and what other 's say is very good in his end, and always works hard, he was getting chances they just were not going in, to kick him to the side because of 1 bad year is short sighted, and to pick on our 18 year old rookie for not winning draws , is just being mean, you guys are so so negative , how did you guys ever live through the 70s and 80s

I'll be REAL quick to give the talented young Dach credit if he can become a 1LC or a 2LC but that requires winning draws which he's never done well at any level and the league's a lot meaner than some puke like me on a message board my friend.
He looked like his game improved between the stop and start back,let's hope FO's improve too or he's a wing. 

Maybe if this season had been normal Dach could have gone to Adam Oates school like Toews did and become better. 
But maybe next summer he can, next season he will have to learn as he goes.

[T-man2010]

Sept 29, 2020 12:06:53 GMT -6 mvr said:

The issue is all about the money.

When constrained by a cap, teams need to be smart about how they spend their money.

If Debrincat is making $3-4 M, I would welcome him in my lineup. He is not starting next year.

One-dimensional small forwards (Canadian or American) who produce second line offensive numbers are not that difficult to find. A team does not need to spend $ 6 + million to find these kind of players.

Debrincat needs playmakers to set him up. He does not generate offence on his own. He took many games off last year, and he was not a consistent factor in the playoffs by any stretch.

I think D-Cat will return to form next season. He did look like he was squeezing sawdust out of his carbonfiber stick.

He may need an Irish Yoga class.

[hsbob]

Sept 29, 2020 12:06:58 GMT -6 T-man2010 said:

Sept 29, 2020 11:28:26 GMT -6 hsbob said:

I'll be REAL quick to give the talented young Dach credit if he can become a 1LC or a 2LC but that requires winning draws which he's never done well at any level and the league's a lot meaner than some puke like me on a message board my friend.
He looked like his game improved between the stop and start back,let's hope FO's improve too or he's a wing. 

Maybe if this season had been normal Dach could have gone to Adam Oates school like Toews did and become better. 
But maybe next summer he can, next season he will have to learn as he goes.

Toews won over 53% of his draws as a rookie and just got better from there but yes,let's hope to God Oates can help Dach.  Toews won three cups,a Selkie and a Conn Smythe before he ever worked with Oates if I recall. Didn't Dach have four months to get bigger and stronger between March and August and his play improved with the exception of FO's. 

[hsbob]

Sept 29, 2020 12:06:53 GMT -6 mvr said:

The issue is all about the money.

When constrained by a cap, teams need to be smart about how they spend their money.

If Debrincat is making $3-4 M, I would welcome him in my lineup. He is not starting next year.

One-dimensional small forwards (Canadian or American) who produce second line offensive numbers are not that difficult to find. A team does not need to spend $ 6 + million to find these kind of players.

Debrincat needs playmakers to set him up. He does not generate offence on his own. He took many games off last year, and he was not a consistent factor in the playoffs by any stretch.

If 87gls and 173pts are "second line offensive numbers" for a 22yro,than what does that say about the rest of our dreck? He also averages over 30 assists a year which shows set up ability. Continue to play this talented sniper in the bottom six and he'll probably score accordingly. Tied for 4th in team scoring in his first taste of PO action is a bit disappointing but disappointing is something we better get used to with this squad.    

[Deleted]

Sept 29, 2020 12:43:14 GMT -6 hsbob said:

Sept 29, 2020 12:06:53 GMT -6 mvr said:

The issue is all about the money.

When constrained by a cap, teams need to be smart about how they spend their money.

If Debrincat is making $3-4 M, I would welcome him in my lineup. He is not starting next year.

One-dimensional small forwards (Canadian or American) who produce second line offensive numbers are not that difficult to find. A team does not need to spend $ 6 + million to find these kind of players.

Debrincat needs playmakers to set him up. He does not generate offence on his own. He took many games off last year, and he was not a consistent factor in the playoffs by any stretch.

If 87gls and 173pts are "second line offensive numbers" for a 22yro,than what does that say about the rest of our dreck? He also averages over 30 assists a year which shows set up ability. Continue to play this talented sniper in the bottom six and he'll probably score accordingly. Tied for 4th in team scoring in his first taste of PO action is a bit disappointing but disappointing is something we better get used to with this squad.    

Thing is will there be anymore playoff action in the near future for this pathetic roster?

[hawkinmontreal]

Tazer is pissed, read the latest issue in the athletic. He was never told the Hawks were on a rebuild.

[Deleted]

www.nbcsports.com/chicago/blackhawks/blackhawks-apparent-rebuild-comes-shock-jonathan-toews

Toews spoke with The Athletic after Chicago traded Brandon Saad to the Colorado Avalanche earlier on Saturday, which came days after the Hawks didn't re-sign Corey Crawford. The Blackhawks also didn't give qualifying offers to Slater Koekkoek and Drake Caggiula ahead of free agency opening up.

“Bottom line is, I want to win,” Toews told Lazerus. “The expectation for the other leaders on this team and myself is to come ready to training camp every year to be a playoff team. We prepare ourselves to win a Cup for our fans. I’ve never been told that we were going through a rebuild. That has never been communicated to me, for that matter. A lot of this comes as a shock because it’s a completely different direction than we expected.”

Related: Corey Crawford's former teammates react to Blackhawks not re-signing him

The 32-year-old center also commented specifically on the decision to not bring Crawford back.

“It’s sad,” Toews said. “It’s really disappointing. Crow has given so much to this team. I feel he was ready to bring more in the next few years and still be a big part of this group. He had that mindset that he could help this team go deep in the playoffs again, and there’s no doubt that he could.”

[Deleted]

All I can conclude from reading everything is Stan is a piece of shit. He blindsided them when he fired Q and he's doing it again now.

He is an arrogant, ignorant little tyrant on a mission to prove he's brilliant and it's destroying the franchise.

Not discussing direction with Toews and/or Kane is on purpose. He didn't want to hear their thoughts. And now, knowing they are openly disappointed, he's going to say "well, I can accommodate you with a trade but need you to waive your NMC" so he can pin it on them at the press conference.

"Well, it's a sad day, the end of an era, I didn't want to come to this but Jonathan/Patrick/Duncan have asked for a trade..."

[vadarx]

Oct 11, 2020 13:30:34 GMT -6 @merper said:

All I can conclude from reading everything is Stan is a piece of shit. He blindsided them when he fired Q and he's doing it again now.

He is an arrogant, ignorant little tyrant on a mission to prove he's brilliant and it's destroying the franchise.

Not discussing direction with Toews and/or Kane is on purpose. He didn't want to hear their thoughts. And now, knowing they are openly disappointed, he's going to say "well, I can accommodate you with a trade but need you to waive your NMC" so he can pin it on them at the press conference.

"Well, it's a sad day, the end of an era, I didn't want to come to this but Jonathan/Patrick/Duncan have asked for a trade..."

pretty much can see this coming from miles away.....

also, who said Kane doesn't know? I've felt for a couple summers now that Stan would very much like to jettison Toews so he can make Kane the captain. hell, it was a big topic a couple summers ago.....

guaranteed they do the same thing to Toews that they just did to Crawford in 3 years (if they don't trade him first).

[galaxytrash]

A post about jonny that's on the lighter side.
His mom's not gonna' be happy.

[hsbob]

Apr 15, 2021 2:31:32 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

A post about jonny that's on the lighter side.
His mom's not gonna' be happy.

I didn't know what to think about a new post in this thread at first but that was great my friend. GOD I hope he plays again!

[Tater]

Apr 15, 2021 2:31:32 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

A post about jonny that's on the lighter side.
His mom's not gonna' be happy.

Thanks for posting that. It's great to hear non PG rated stuff for a change. I'd love to see a similar video from Shaw or Burish.

[gigecj]

Apr 15, 2021 2:31:32 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

A post about jonny that's on the lighter side.
His mom's not gonna' be happy.

Well, they say that Mennonites aren't as strict as the Amish.

[tincup]

Apr 15, 2021 2:31:32 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

A post about jonny that's on the lighter side.
His mom's not gonna' be happy.

Sounds like any work site I’ve been on. I don’t think most of us could communicate with each other without using those technical terms. Even with workers who aren’t great English speakers, I get the gist of their meaning in just the tone of those words. It’s crude but it’s universal.

[B-A-Hawk]

Great video GT, getting a deeper , really in the game, side, I'd like to see a miked up version on the game, but I guess it wouldn't be family rated, tnx for that

[BigT]

To anyone here who’s played hockey in a league or Jr levels. The things you hear are unreal. Guys look for any advantage they can get. A lot of shitty things are said. A lot of funny things said too. The mouthiest guys are usually the weakest. The toughest guys literally wouldn’t say much and kick the most ass. But swearing is a must. I really really try not to talk like I’m on the ice except when around hockey buddies. I don’t talk like that on here. I guess it’s some sort of filter we have to have!!!

[number9]

Apr 15, 2021 2:31:32 GMT -6 galaxytrash said:

A post about jonny that's on the lighter side.
His mom's not gonna' be happy.

Is that his audition tape to become the next guest analyst replacing Edzo?

[mikeveisor]

Apparently Johnny is feeling better:

[vadarx]

Apr 21, 2021 18:06:25 GMT -6 mikeveisor said:

Apparently Johnny is feeling better:

yep.

as I said in the game thread, it'll be a great game 1 next October if 19 is on the ice taking the opening draw...

[BigT]

Apr 21, 2021 18:49:50 GMT -6 vadarx said:

Apr 21, 2021 18:06:25 GMT -6 mikeveisor said:

Apparently Johnny is feeling better:

yep.

as I said in the game thread, it'll be a great game 1 next October if 19 is on the ice taking the opening draw...

I think it’s time for the Hawks and 19/88 to part ways. I’m not saying this outta anger or anything. But the team will not get better over night like Bowman led people to believe. So don’t waste their time or yours stan. The dream is over. I don’t see Toews coming back and getting 75 points. At 33, he’ll be a 45-55 point guy. Especially with this team. Dach doesn’t look very good these days. Boqvist just sucks. Kurashev has disappeared, and Suter is just too small. Not much to work with here!!!

[LordKOTL]

Apr 21, 2021 18:59:36 GMT -6 BigT said:

Apr 21, 2021 18:49:50 GMT -6 vadarx said:

yep.

as I said in the game thread, it'll be a great game 1 next October if 19 is on the ice taking the opening draw...

I think it’s time for the Hawks and 19/88 to part ways. I’m not saying this outta anger or anything. But the team will not get better over night like Bowman led people to believe. So don’t waste their time or yours stan. The dream is over. I don’t see Toews coming back and getting 75 points. At 33, he’ll be a 45-55 point guy. Especially with this team. Dach doesn’t look very good these days. Boqvist just sucks. Kurashev has disappeared, and Suter is just too small. Not much to work with here!!!

...assuming they waive.  There's no guarantee that they will and if they want to stay in Chicago, that's there right no matter how much fans and management wish upon a star.

[jacksalmon]

Apr 21, 2021 18:59:36 GMT -6 BigT said:

Apr 21, 2021 18:49:50 GMT -6 vadarx said:

yep.

as I said in the game thread, it'll be a great game 1 next October if 19 is on the ice taking the opening draw...

I think it’s time for the Hawks and 19/88 to part ways. I’m not saying this outta anger or anything. But the team will not get better over night like Bowman led people to believe. So don’t waste their time or yours stan. The dream is over. I don’t see Toews coming back and getting 75 points. At 33, he’ll be a 45-55 point guy. Especially with this team. Dach doesn’t look very good these days. Boqvist just sucks. Kurashev has disappeared, and Suter is just too small. Not much to work with here!!!

There are several points of view about 19/88 and their "value" to the team, one of which is merchandise sales, which may have entered into the equation  at some point.  However, it was pretty obvious when they failed to survive the first round in the playoffs in 2016 and 2017 that using 19 and 88 to again make this team Cup competitive was going to be a failure.  That was not because 19 and 88 would not produce.  It was just because they did not have enough supporting players and the Seabrook financial fiasco was also haunting them.  

While it may now be time for 19/88 and the Hawks to part ways, I sincerely doubt that they will get much for Toews.  Which team is going to give them prime return for a guy who has just missed a year with some mysterious inability to play (whether it is physical/mental or Stan pouting) and will not have the opportunity to prove himself before the beginning of next season?  I think most GMs would pass on him and focus on their own players/draft picks.  Kane is a different story and I would suspect he will still get prime return from a team that is looking to win over the next couple years and may be willing to sacrifice some of its future in return for a guy who could put them over the top.  I would trade Kane in an instant, not because he is washed up but because he isn't and what they could get for him is worth more to the future Hawk team than Kane himself.  If they could get any kind of decent return for Toews, I would also do it in  an instant.  

As you say, T, they don't have much to work with now.  So, they need to try to acquire some future players who could help turn the franchise around.  Unfortunately, what they could get for 19/88 ain't gonna do it without several more acquisitions, including draft picks.  Even that might not work.  This team has a bleak future and it will take a miracle to restore it to Cup competitive status.  

[hsbob]

Thanks for the cups and all but don't let the door hit ya in the ass.........WTF!

[hsbob]

Apr 22, 2021 10:32:44 GMT -6 LordKOTL said:

Apr 21, 2021 18:59:36 GMT -6 BigT said:

I think it’s time for the Hawks and 19/88 to part ways. I’m not saying this outta anger or anything. But the team will not get better over night like Bowman led people to believe. So don’t waste their time or yours stan. The dream is over. I don’t see Toews coming back and getting 75 points. At 33, he’ll be a 45-55 point guy. Especially with this team. Dach doesn’t look very good these days. Boqvist just sucks. Kurashev has disappeared, and Suter is just too small. Not much to work with here!!!

...assuming they waive.  There's no guarantee that they will and if they want to stay in Chicago, that's there right no matter how much fans and management wish upon a star.

Not all fans my friend. Is Kane's departure really what you wish upon a star for?