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Post by hsbob on Jul 4, 2020 7:22:09 GMT -6
Of course there's been plenty of misses but your post made it sound like you considered Hischier a miss, he has 136pts in his first 209gms for a weak team(Palmieri led w/45pts) he had a 51.7FO% and wears an A at 21. I like the bigger Dach but Hughes had one fewer goal in three fewer games and was slightly better at the dot but both sucked. I doubt NJ's lookin to move the 19yro in a "heartbeat" or any other way. Some kids take a year or two and our own Dach might be one. I also doubt a mid-season coaching change helped either youngster either. I don’t think Hughes will be total bust. But I doubt he’s on the level of other 1st overalls. Hischer is ok, he’s starting to come around. But I think he’s reached his potential already. I believe Hughes will be like him and follow the same trajectory. Last year was the year to trade away a first overall if you ever were to do that. I think Zegras will be as good as Hughes. Last years draft just didn’t have the high end talent that this years does. Byfield is 6’4” and is a scoring machine, and he’s not even in the conversation for first overall. He’d be first in any other year. So that means the talent keeps getting pushed further and further down the list. That’s what makes a very deep draft. A lot of guys at the top end of the first round are sure fire NHLers. So the misses I believe are due to just bad draft classes. It happens. Many years are very lean on guys making the NHL. Then a draft class like this years comes up and it’s great to see. This is why I think Ottawa shouldn’t trade up for the 1st overall. There 2 picks in the top 5 may end up being great players. Probably not as good as Lafreniere, but they can still rebuild a team with the two and be better off by having 2 holes plugged!!! Hughes shoulda got a year to grow up but he was rushed unto a dreadful team that changed coaches mid-way,there are no other offensive threats for opponents to cover(Palmeiri had 14 5 on 5 goals) and no playmakers to set young teammates up. If this is a scenario that allows a 21yro to reach his potential....I dunno what to tell you. We won't know how ANY of these kids do until they get a solid 3-4 years under their belts and there are always surprises as there are failed 1st overalls. This year's draft class is like all the preceding draft classes...…..countin' chickens before they hatch |
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Post by acesandeights on Jul 5, 2020 8:08:15 GMT -6
^^
I think someone could make a good case that no one from last year's draft should have been in the NHL this year. I feel Dach should have been back in juniors and neither Hughes or Kaako put up much in the way of offensive numbers. Turcotte went to college and found out offense was a little harder to come by than it was with the US Dev. teams. It might have been better for Hughes in the long run but these top picks go to poor teams so they get rushed up.
Since the Hawks had Strome, I've wondered why they didn't just hang onto AA and let Dach stay in juniors for another year.
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Post by BigT on Jul 5, 2020 9:47:09 GMT -6
I don’t think Hughes will be total bust. But I doubt he’s on the level of other 1st overalls. Hischer is ok, he’s starting to come around. But I think he’s reached his potential already. I believe Hughes will be like him and follow the same trajectory. Last year was the year to trade away a first overall if you ever were to do that. I think Zegras will be as good as Hughes. Last years draft just didn’t have the high end talent that this years does. Byfield is 6’4” and is a scoring machine, and he’s not even in the conversation for first overall. He’d be first in any other year. So that means the talent keeps getting pushed further and further down the list. That’s what makes a very deep draft. A lot of guys at the top end of the first round are sure fire NHLers. So the misses I believe are due to just bad draft classes. It happens. Many years are very lean on guys making the NHL. Then a draft class like this years comes up and it’s great to see. This is why I think Ottawa shouldn’t trade up for the 1st overall. There 2 picks in the top 5 may end up being great players. Probably not as good as Lafreniere, but they can still rebuild a team with the two and be better off by having 2 holes plugged!!! Hughes shoulda got a year to grow up but he was rushed unto a dreadful team that changed coaches mid-way,there are no other offensive threats for opponents to cover(Palmeiri had 14 5 on 5 goals) and no playmakers to set young teammates up. If this is a scenario that allows a 21yro to reach his potential....I dunno what to tell you. We won't know how ANY of these kids do until they get a solid 3-4 years under their belts and there are always surprises as there are failed 1st overalls. This year's draft class is like all the preceding draft classes...…..countin' chickens before they hatch Like Aces said, every top pick goes to a bad team. Mathews got 4 goals his first game. A feat that took Hughes quite some time. McDavid had 48 points in 45 games before breaking his collar bone. He was just catching stride and more than likely got to 100. Dach did not belong in the NHL this year. Neither did Hughes or Kakko. If 23 points is what the best the draft class has to offer, they’re better off developing. And just like Aces said, Turcotte had a less than stellar year in the NCAA. He had 26 points in 29 games. A kid that’s drafted usually puts up a point per game and usually more. But if he stays another year to develop, I think he’ll be fine. Rushing a kid like Turcotte after he struggled in the NCAA, I doubt he does much in the NHL. If players like Hughes, Kakko and Dach want to get rid of the bust label, they’re gonna have to double their output at a minimal to show they’re not. 46 points still isn’t that great either, but it shows they’re on the right path!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 5, 2020 16:10:29 GMT -6
I really don't care much about what other teams do with their prospects, but both Dach and Boqvist should've spent this season developing and not playing in Chicago. it was dumb for developmental reasons and also for cap reasons, but we all know the brass needed to sell that hope to keep tickets sales high......
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Post by BigT on Jul 5, 2020 20:25:09 GMT -6
I really don't care much about what other teams do with their prospects, but both Dach and Boqvist should've spent this season developing and not playing in Chicago. it was dumb for developmental reasons and also for cap reasons, but we all know the brass needed to sell that hope to keep tickets sales high...... The bigger problem now is if those kids don’t produce again, the pressure builds on those kids as Stan has sold them as the next wave. This is how kids get ruined. They get forced into a terrible situation when not ready. Then they are hyped as the next greats. Even Toews and Kane had zero pressure to do anything, they played with house money and the rest is history. Wasting a a year of their ELC is only good if you receive the proper value for them. They didn’t belong in the NHL, and the year we could’ve had cheap, is ruined now. Stan is his own worst enemy with moves like this. Can’t blame the cap on anyone but himself now!!! |
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Post by Tater on Jul 5, 2020 23:33:20 GMT -6
I really don't care much about what other teams do with their prospects, but both Dach and Boqvist should've spent this season developing and not playing in Chicago. it was dumb for developmental reasons and also for cap reasons, but we all know the brass needed to sell that hope to keep tickets sales high...... The bigger problem now is if those kids don’t produce again, the pressure builds on those kids as Stan has sold them as the next wave. This is how kids get ruined. They get forced into a terrible situation when not ready. Then they are hyped as the next greats. Even Toews and Kane had zero pressure to do anything, they played with house money and the rest is history. Wasting a a year of their ELC is only good if you receive the proper value for them. They didn’t belong in the NHL, and the year we could’ve had cheap, is ruined now. Stan is his own worst enemy with moves like this. Can’t blame the cap on anyone but himself now!!!
Great posts both of you, and I totally agree.
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Post by hsbob on Jul 6, 2020 7:23:32 GMT -6
I really don't care much about what other teams do with their prospects, but both Dach and Boqvist should've spent this season developing and not playing in Chicago. it was dumb for developmental reasons and also for cap reasons, but we all know the brass needed to sell that hope to keep tickets sales high...... Ya know something buddy,it seems a coaching staff and Org would take every measure to make sure an 18yro prospers if he makes it and same goes for the slightly older kids. If you're gonna play Dach you don't ever see a Kane,Toews ,Dach line? Don't ya want the kid to gain confidence for F's sake? You put Dach on the wing and let him take draws when JT get's tossed and that means JT and Kane are going for those 50/50 draws which leads to a better FO% and a confident young player. You see a lot more than eight fukkiin goals with those two settin' the kid up too and a lot more assists because the kid's not a bad passer himself. If you're just gonna let the kid bounce around the bottom six and get throttled at the dot while gettin' creamed by any goof that want's to run him w/o a hint of pushback,then yes...…..another year in JR's woulda been a better idea but I like mine better. Carbon copy the above for D-Cat and Strome,I can't understand a young coach breaking up his young,talented tandem. Those two deserved a chance to build off the chemistry and big offensive production from the year before but the Org didn't seem to want HUGE numbers from K&T and D&S showing up the rest of the squad again. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 6, 2020 7:55:04 GMT -6
I really don't care much about what other teams do with their prospects, but both Dach and Boqvist should've spent this season developing and not playing in Chicago. it was dumb for developmental reasons and also for cap reasons, but we all know the brass needed to sell that hope to keep tickets sales high...... Ya know something buddy,it seems a coaching staff and Org would take every measure to make sure an 18yro prospers if he makes it and same goes for the slightly older kids. If you're gonna play Dach you don't ever see a Kane,Toews ,Dach line? Don't ya want the kid to gain confidence for F's sake? You put Dach on the wing and let him take draws when JT get's tossed and that means JT and Kane are going for those 50/50 draws which leads to a better FO% and a confident young player. You see a lot more than eight fukkiin goals with those two settin' the kid up too and a lot more assists because the kid's not a bad passer himself. If you're just gonna let the kid bounce around the bottom six and get throttled at the dot while gettin' creamed by any goof that want's to run him w/o a hint of pushback,then yes...…..another year in JR's woulda been a better idea but I like mine better. Carbon copy the above for D-Cat and Strome,I can't understand a young coach breaking up his young,talented tandem. Those two deserved a chance to build off the chemistry and big offensive production from the year before but the Org didn't seem to want HUGE numbers from K&T and D&S showing up the rest of the squad again. I said before the season started that Dach should be left in juniors, but that he wouldn't be. I also said I thought he would end up playing wing instead of center and would play with 19 and 88. wish I would've been right about the latter..... my fear when they drafted him was that some scouts were saying he was possibly better suited to play wing and we needed a center at #3. hopefully he can get better at the dot. if he can, he certainly appears to have the defensive mindset you like to see in a pivot. but if faceoffs are perpetually going to be a problem, I vote the send him to Slovakia and let him have a HOFer give him some pointers on how to be the best defensive forward in the league as a winger..... |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 6, 2020 8:40:25 GMT -6
Ya know something buddy,it seems a coaching staff and Org would take every measure to make sure an 18yro prospers if he makes it and same goes for the slightly older kids. If you're gonna play Dach you don't ever see a Kane,Toews ,Dach line? Don't ya want the kid to gain confidence for F's sake? You put Dach on the wing and let him take draws when JT get's tossed and that means JT and Kane are going for those 50/50 draws which leads to a better FO% and a confident young player. You see a lot more than eight fukkiin goals with those two settin' the kid up too and a lot more assists because the kid's not a bad passer himself. If you're just gonna let the kid bounce around the bottom six and get throttled at the dot while gettin' creamed by any goof that want's to run him w/o a hint of pushback,then yes...…..another year in JR's woulda been a better idea but I like mine better. Carbon copy the above for D-Cat and Strome,I can't understand a young coach breaking up his young,talented tandem. Those two deserved a chance to build off the chemistry and big offensive production from the year before but the Org didn't seem to want HUGE numbers from K&T and D&S showing up the rest of the squad again. I said before the season started that Dach should be left in juniors, but that he wouldn't be. I also said I thought he would end up playing wing instead of center and would play with 19 and 88. wish I would've been right about the latter..... my fear when they drafted him was that some scouts were saying he was possibly better suited to play wing and we needed a center at #3. hopefully he can get better at the dot. if he can, he certainly appears to have the defensive mindset you like to see in a pivot. but if faceoffs are perpetually going to be a problem, I vote the send him to Slovakia and let him have a HOFer give him some pointers on how to be the best defensive forward in the league as a winger..... Europe has no plans on lettin' any of us virus crazed Yanks in and who can blame em! Having Big Hoss as a mentor for any young player is a very desirable scenario but probably not at all possible for some time for a number of reasons. I do recall you and a few others calling for a season on JT's wing and this wouldn't mean the kid isn't still a good,young center in training......it would have given him that training IMO. |
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Post by acesandeights on Jul 6, 2020 10:33:28 GMT -6
Ya know something buddy,it seems a coaching staff and Org would take every measure to make sure an 18yro prospers if he makes it and same goes for the slightly older kids. If you're gonna play Dach you don't ever see a Kane,Toews ,Dach line? Don't ya want the kid to gain confidence for F's sake? You put Dach on the wing and let him take draws when JT get's tossed and that means JT and Kane are going for those 50/50 draws which leads to a better FO% and a confident young player. You see a lot more than eight fukkiin goals with those two settin' the kid up too and a lot more assists because the kid's not a bad passer himself. If you're just gonna let the kid bounce around the bottom six and get throttled at the dot while gettin' creamed by any goof that want's to run him w/o a hint of pushback,then yes...…..another year in JR's woulda been a better idea but I like mine better. Carbon copy the above for D-Cat and Strome,I can't understand a young coach breaking up his young,talented tandem. Those two deserved a chance to build off the chemistry and big offensive production from the year before but the Org didn't seem to want HUGE numbers from K&T and D&S showing up the rest of the squad again. I said before the season started that Dach should be left in juniors, but that he wouldn't be. I also said I thought he would end up playing wing instead of center and would play with 19 and 88. wish I would've been right about the latter..... my fear when they drafted him was that some scouts were saying he was possibly better suited to play wing and we needed a center at #3. hopefully he can get better at the dot. if he can, he certainly appears to have the defensive mindset you like to see in a pivot. but if faceoffs are perpetually going to be a problem, I vote the send him to Slovakia and let him have a HOFer give him some pointers on how to be the best defensive forward in the league as a winger..... I doubt this is worth anything but several months ago I did a little research into the FO%'s for the Hawk C's over a period of time; I think it was over a 3-4 yr. period though I don't recall what years. Even though the Hawks have Yanic Perreault as their faceoff guru, I've always had a suspicion that you can't really improve a player's FO% all that much (one's that take a lot of faceoffs). I was basing my suspicion on the idea that a coach can only do so much, even Yanic Perreault. The coach can teach and instruct but he can't take the FO's for the players. In the end, the players will have to make the improvement themselves. What I found was basically what I thought I would find. Toews was always at the top, with 50-55%, and I can't recall anyone else close to 50%. Any improvement I saw from others was maybe around only 2%, or so. I don't recall any going from, say 41% to 46%. And not all improved. Is improvement of 5-6%, or more expecting too much? As far as Dach and his FO's, how much teaching would he have gotten in juniors on FO's? If he was lacking some in FO coaching and in his technique, then hopefully he can improve with instruction. Although in the end it will be up to Dach to get the job done. I wonder if the idea that maybe Dach could end up at wing might make Stan look at a true C in the draft? |
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Post by BigT on Jul 6, 2020 11:35:24 GMT -6
I said before the season started that Dach should be left in juniors, but that he wouldn't be. I also said I thought he would end up playing wing instead of center and would play with 19 and 88. wish I would've been right about the latter..... my fear when they drafted him was that some scouts were saying he was possibly better suited to play wing and we needed a center at #3. hopefully he can get better at the dot. if he can, he certainly appears to have the defensive mindset you like to see in a pivot. but if faceoffs are perpetually going to be a problem, I vote the send him to Slovakia and let him have a HOFer give him some pointers on how to be the best defensive forward in the league as a winger..... I doubt this is worth anything but several months ago I did a little research into the FO%'s for the Hawk C's over a period of time; I think it was over a 3-4 yr. period though I don't recall what years. Even though the Hawks have Yanic Perreault as their faceoff guru, I've always had a suspicion that you can't really improve a player's FO% all that much (one's that take a lot of faceoffs). I was basing my suspicion on the idea that a coach can only do so much, even Yanic Perreault. The coach can teach and instruct but he can't take the FO's for the players. In the end, the players will have to make the improvement themselves. What I found was basically what I thought I would find. Toews was always at the top, with 50-55%, and I can't recall anyone else close to 50%. Any improvement I saw from others was maybe around only 2%, or so. I don't recall any going from, say 41% to 46%. And not all improved. Is improvement of 5-6%, or more expecting too much? As far as Dach and his FO's, how much teaching would he have gotten in juniors on FO's? If he was lacking some in FO coaching and in his technique, then hopefully he can improve with instruction. Although in the end it will be up to Dach to get the job done. I wonder if the idea that maybe Dach could end up at wing might make Stan look at a true C in the draft? Although centers are responsible for winning them in most people’s eyes. I can tell you first hand that centers need wingers that can win draws for them. The puck isn’t always drawn straight back, and it gets kicked around where the wingers have to dig deep and win those battles. If a player is in the 55+% range. I would bet that their wingers win a lot of those draws for them. However, you’re right! Some people just aren’t that good at draws. For example, on my team this year, on my sons line the Center wasn’t winning draws. That line ended up chasing the puck more. So I put my son at center and he won draws and the offense from that line went through the roof. It’s better to start with possession than to start chasing. It’s also easier to get the puck in the hands of the ones you want. Like Kane on the Hawks. A big part of the Hawks problem is like my team, they’re starting on the wrong side of the puck. Numbers don’t lie, and the Hawks are on the defensive side of the puck more than the offensive side. Unless they get bigger and stronger overall, this will continue. Yes we all love Dcat and Kane, but it’s tough with a full lineup of guys like that. It’s tough to get possession, and guys like Kane and Dcat need the puck, they’re not the best to be chasing the puck, and that’s what happened so much this year!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 11:39:50 GMT -6
I really don't care much about what other teams do with their prospects, but both Dach and Boqvist should've spent this season developing and not playing in Chicago. it was dumb for developmental reasons and also for cap reasons, but we all know the brass needed to sell that hope to keep tickets sales high...... Ya know something buddy,it seems a coaching staff and Org would take every measure to make sure an 18yro prospers if he makes it and same goes for the slightly older kids. If you're gonna play Dach you don't ever see a Kane,Toews ,Dach line? Don't ya want the kid to gain confidence for F's sake? You put Dach on the wing and let him take draws when JT get's tossed and that means JT and Kane are going for those 50/50 draws which leads to a better FO% and a confident young player. You see a lot more than eight fukkiin goals with those two settin' the kid up too and a lot more assists because the kid's not a bad passer himself. If you're just gonna let the kid bounce around the bottom six and get throttled at the dot while gettin' creamed by any goof that want's to run him w/o a hint of pushback,then yes...…..another year in JR's woulda been a better idea but I like mine better. Carbon copy the above for D-Cat and Strome,I can't understand a young coach breaking up his young,talented tandem. Those two deserved a chance to build off the chemistry and big offensive production from the year before but the Org didn't seem to want HUGE numbers from K&T and D&S showing up the rest of the squad again. If I'm not mistaken, there's more to it then just last years chemistry between Cat and Strome. Didn't they play in juniors together? That's why they had almost instant chemistry when the Hawks acquired Strome. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 6, 2020 11:45:17 GMT -6
Ya know something buddy,it seems a coaching staff and Org would take every measure to make sure an 18yro prospers if he makes it and same goes for the slightly older kids. If you're gonna play Dach you don't ever see a Kane,Toews ,Dach line? Don't ya want the kid to gain confidence for F's sake? You put Dach on the wing and let him take draws when JT get's tossed and that means JT and Kane are going for those 50/50 draws which leads to a better FO% and a confident young player. You see a lot more than eight fukkiin goals with those two settin' the kid up too and a lot more assists because the kid's not a bad passer himself. If you're just gonna let the kid bounce around the bottom six and get throttled at the dot while gettin' creamed by any goof that want's to run him w/o a hint of pushback,then yes...…..another year in JR's woulda been a better idea but I like mine better. Carbon copy the above for D-Cat and Strome,I can't understand a young coach breaking up his young,talented tandem. Those two deserved a chance to build off the chemistry and big offensive production from the year before but the Org didn't seem to want HUGE numbers from K&T and D&S showing up the rest of the squad again. If I'm not mistaken, there's more to it then just last years chemistry between Cat and Strome. Didn't they play in juniors together? That's why they had almost instant chemistry when the Hawks acquired Strome. They played together in Erie. Very very successful. I have a few pics of them I’ll try and post of them. But it’s getting tougher from my phone!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 12:09:37 GMT -6
If I'm not mistaken, there's more to it then just last years chemistry between Cat and Strome. Didn't they play in juniors together? That's why they had almost instant chemistry when the Hawks acquired Strome. They played together in Erie. Very very successful. I have a few pics of them I’ll try and post of them. But it’s getting tougher from my phone!!!  |
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Post by BigT on Jul 6, 2020 14:56:15 GMT -6
They played together in Erie. Very very successful. I have a few pics of them I’ll try and post of them. But it’s getting tougher from my phone!!! I kinda do. They’re called the standings!!! |
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Post by hawkinmontreal on Jul 6, 2020 16:36:42 GMT -6
I think the fix is in. I don’t trust the NHL when it comes to the lotto. You ever play the lotto? It’s tough just to get your Dawe damn money back. Every year someone seems to win big, for the drama. The Hawks got scammed in 2004 and 05. We were either the worst team or the 2nd worst team and we lost on both years. Both generational talents to come out in consecutive years. We also missed out on Malkin in 04. Both the Pens and Capitals were for sale those years. Jim Balsaile tried to buy both teams in consecutive years. And both teams got the 1st overall to keep the teams put. It sucked the life outta the Hawks for another few years at least. I doubt we get it this year, I’m gonna say Arizona gets it. Gary and co are far behind in getting them a top pick. I think it’s just the order of things. If the Hawks do get it. I seriously have to wonder if the Bowman’s are a gawd damn mafia and have way too much sway in the league. No way the Hawks move up last year to 3 and now to 1!!! I actually think the 1st overall pick is given to Montreal and not Arizona. The Habs are money for the NHL, just think if the Quebec born player is drafted by the Habs in Montreal where the draft is supposed to be held, and or the New York Rangers. |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 6, 2020 16:40:26 GMT -6
Ya know something buddy,it seems a coaching staff and Org would take every measure to make sure an 18yro prospers if he makes it and same goes for the slightly older kids. If you're gonna play Dach you don't ever see a Kane,Toews ,Dach line? Don't ya want the kid to gain confidence for F's sake? You put Dach on the wing and let him take draws when JT get's tossed and that means JT and Kane are going for those 50/50 draws which leads to a better FO% and a confident young player. You see a lot more than eight fukkiin goals with those two settin' the kid up too and a lot more assists because the kid's not a bad passer himself. If you're just gonna let the kid bounce around the bottom six and get throttled at the dot while gettin' creamed by any goof that want's to run him w/o a hint of pushback,then yes...…..another year in JR's woulda been a better idea but I like mine better. Carbon copy the above for D-Cat and Strome,I can't understand a young coach breaking up his young,talented tandem. Those two deserved a chance to build off the chemistry and big offensive production from the year before but the Org didn't seem to want HUGE numbers from K&T and D&S showing up the rest of the squad again. If I'm not mistaken, there's more to it then just last years chemistry between Cat and Strome. Didn't they play in juniors together? That's why they had almost instant chemistry when the Hawks acquired Strome. D-Cat absolutely BLEW UP with 41 but the kid had 35 assists too and Strome had 34 assists in just 58gms playin' with his boy and they did this with Perlini and others of that ilk …….WTF? Strome looked like the player most scouts thought he'd be back with D-Cat and he coulda made his GM look good for makin' the trade and his HC look good for playin' him in a role he was obviously comfortable in but the two dumb bastards had other ideas and now both talented kids look lost,once again.....WFT? |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 6, 2020 16:45:50 GMT -6
So why don't you have any (incriminating) pictures of a certain GM you can post? I kinda do. They’re called the standings!!!  |
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Post by nighbor on Jul 7, 2020 0:32:11 GMT -6
^^ I think someone could make a good case that no one from last year's draft should have been in the NHL this year. I feel Dach should have been back in juniors and neither Hughes or Kaako put up much in the way of offensive numbers. Turcotte went to college and found out offense was a little harder to come by than it was with the US Dev. teams. It might have been better for Hughes in the long run but these top picks go to poor teams so they get rushed up. Since the Hawks had Strome, I've wondered why they didn't just hang onto AA and let Dach stay in juniors for another year. The team had been trying to trade AA for some time and there were no other takers. Sending Dach back to juniors would have been like sending a triple A player to house league and expect him to improve and not pick up bad habits. Physically Hughes and Kaako were no match for Dach and would have benefitted from another year of growth. If it were not for his injury at the Traverse City tournament Dach would have put up better numbers. Dach is a two way player and physically showed he belonged. If Dach gained 10-15 pounds he would be a beast. Debrincat and Strome were given a pass for their lower goal production because they played on the lower lines but so did Dach.
Toews is getting older and Dach is being groomed to take over Toews defensive responsibilities and who better than Toews to groom him. Toews defensive play was helped along by Hossa playing on his line and it's time for Toews to pass it along to Dach. Toews is one of the top faceoff men in the league and Dach will benefit greatly being in Toews company.
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Post by vadarx on Jul 7, 2020 4:11:44 GMT -6
^^ I think someone could make a good case that no one from last year's draft should have been in the NHL this year. I feel Dach should have been back in juniors and neither Hughes or Kaako put up much in the way of offensive numbers. Turcotte went to college and found out offense was a little harder to come by than it was with the US Dev. teams. It might have been better for Hughes in the long run but these top picks go to poor teams so they get rushed up. Since the Hawks had Strome, I've wondered why they didn't just hang onto AA and let Dach stay in juniors for another year. The team had been trying to trade AA for some time and there were no other takers. Sending Dach back to juniors would have been like sending a triple A player to house league and expect him to improve and not pick up bad habits. Physically Hughes and Kaako were no match for Dach and would have benefitted from another year of growth. If it were not for his injury at the Traverse City tournament Dach would have put up better numbers. Dach is a two way player and physically showed he belonged. If Dach gained 10-15 pounds he would be a beast. Debrincat and Strome were given a pass for their lower goal production because they played on the lower lines but so did Dach.
Toews is getting older and Dach is being groomed to take over Toews defensive responsibilities and who better than Toews to groom him. Toews defensive play was helped along by Hossa playing on his line and it's time for Toews to pass it along to Dach. Toews is one of the top faceoff men in the league and Dach will benefit greatly being in Toews company.
I get the "physically ready" argument and I cannot really refute it, as I cannot say that Dach looked awful on the ice this year. I still believe another year to bulk up, work on his shortcomings, and gain confidence would've done him well. my main issue with he and Boqvist being played this past year is cap related. an issue that is now going to be front and center going forward for the next few seasons. people are already trying to figure out how the hell we are going to sign Kubalik, Strome, a pair of goaltenders, and maybe Caligula. we are about to be cash strapped for a while, gents. so.... with that in mind, we've now wasted a year of both of their ELCs, are now going to have to resign both a season early. not a good move by our bean-counting GM, imo. I understand the plan this year was to put together the best team possible, but I really believe neither Dach, in his limited playing time, or Boqvist spending another year in juniors or the Rock would've had any effect on the results achieved by our team this season. they would have done the same without them both and they would've retained another year of their ELCs, which would be a great thing to have now with the coming cap crunch. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 7, 2020 4:57:06 GMT -6
^^ I think someone could make a good case that no one from last year's draft should have been in the NHL this year. I feel Dach should have been back in juniors and neither Hughes or Kaako put up much in the way of offensive numbers. Turcotte went to college and found out offense was a little harder to come by than it was with the US Dev. teams. It might have been better for Hughes in the long run but these top picks go to poor teams so they get rushed up. Since the Hawks had Strome, I've wondered why they didn't just hang onto AA and let Dach stay in juniors for another year. The team had been trying to trade AA for some time and there were no other takers. Sending Dach back to juniors would have been like sending a triple A player to house league and expect him to improve and not pick up bad habits. Physically Hughes and Kaako were no match for Dach and would have benefitted from another year of growth. If it were not for his injury at the Traverse City tournament Dach would have put up better numbers. Dach is a two way player and physically showed he belonged. If Dach gained 10-15 pounds he would be a beast. Debrincat and Strome were given a pass for their lower goal production because they played on the lower lines but so did Dach.
Toews is getting older and Dach is being groomed to take over Toews defensive responsibilities and who better than Toews to groom him. Toews defensive play was helped along by Hossa playing on his line and it's time for Toews to pass it along to Dach. Toews is one of the top faceoff men in the league and Dach will benefit greatly being in Toews company.
I usually like the arguments you bring, but I just don’t see how any of this is true? First off, Dach had really one successful season in Jrs with 73 points in 62 games. I doubt that would be like a AAA player going to house league. He had a total of 38 goals over 3 seasons in Jrs. He was never the most defensively responsible as his team never really gave him that role. So I don’t see how he’s being groomed to take over Toews defensive responsibilities? You know where he could have learned that? With coach Love back in Saskatchewan. The game was just too fast for an 18 year old version of Kirby Dach. His numbers and amount of hits he took are a testament to his adolescence and he just wasn’t ready. I don’t doubt that any kid would be better off being in Toews company. But he’s still only 19 and I wouldn’t expect tok much from him at this point. This is a kid that went from having a decent year in Jrs and not dominating there, to playing amongst the best men in hockey. That is the reason for his shortcomings this year. Dcat and Strome were set up to fail. JC thought he was a Q clone and tried to balance the offence. What happened is he ruined a year of what could have been an awesome springboard for these two good young players. JC is not a good coach and Stan has no clue how run a pop stand. These two in charge are gonna make things worse and worse. One fine fine day you’ll see the light. I fully understand how some people don’t want to hear bad things about the team they love. It’s a protectionist type love. But I’ve learned that the truth doesn’t care. The truth is that the Hawks just aren’t that good anymore. Excuses only blind you from the truth!!! |
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Post by hsbob on Jul 7, 2020 8:48:18 GMT -6
The team had been trying to trade AA for some time and there were no other takers. Sending Dach back to juniors would have been like sending a triple A player to house league and expect him to improve and not pick up bad habits. Physically Hughes and Kaako were no match for Dach and would have benefitted from another year of growth. If it were not for his injury at the Traverse City tournament Dach would have put up better numbers. Dach is a two way player and physically showed he belonged. If Dach gained 10-15 pounds he would be a beast. Debrincat and Strome were given a pass for their lower goal production because they played on the lower lines but so did Dach.
Toews is getting older and Dach is being groomed to take over Toews defensive responsibilities and who better than Toews to groom him. Toews defensive play was helped along by Hossa playing on his line and it's time for Toews to pass it along to Dach. Toews is one of the top faceoff men in the league and Dach will benefit greatly being in Toews company.
I usually like the arguments you bring, but I just don’t see how any of this is true? First off, Dach had really one successful season in Jrs with 73 points in 62 games. I doubt that would be like a AAA player going to house league. He had a total of 38 goals over 3 seasons in Jrs. He was never the most defensively responsible as his team never really gave him that role. So I don’t see how he’s being groomed to take over Toews defensive responsibilities? You know where he could have learned that? With coach Love back in Saskatchewan. The game was just too fast for an 18 year old version of Kirby Dach. His numbers and amount of hits he took are a testament to his adolescence and he just wasn’t ready. I don’t doubt that any kid would be better off being in Toews company. But he’s still only 19 and I wouldn’t expect tok much from him at this point. This is a kid that went from having a decent year in Jrs and not dominating there, to playing amongst the best men in hockey. That is the reason for his shortcomings this year. Dcat and Strome were set up to fail. JC thought he was a Q clone and tried to balance the offence. What happened is he ruined a year of what could have been an awesome springboard for these two good young players. JC is not a good coach and Stan has no clue how run a pop stand. These two in charge are gonna make things worse and worse. One fine fine day you’ll see the light. I fully understand how some people don’t want to hear bad things about the team they love. It’s a protectionist type love. But I’ve learned that the truth doesn’t care. The truth is that the Hawks just aren’t that good anymore. Excuses only blind you from the truth!!! I had to give you a like for your last paragraph alone. Maybe another year in Jr's helps Dach more than a year in the bigs but I'm not 100% sure about that T. The kid did show an ability to pick himself up and dust himself off after gettin' run time and time again just like D-Cat had to do in his 1st few years and the lack of response is still as TROUBLING as ever. I thought Dach woulda been better served playing with better palyers than bouncin' around the bottom six but I do expect the big kid to improve as he goes but how much depends on the staff to some extent and that's troubling as well IMO. I say that because I saw good,young players like Strome and D-Cat regress badly and Nolander certainly didn't see the breakthrough leaving the poorly run Sabres was supposed to produce did he? The K&T and D&S combos put up massive numbers together and did so with dubious linemates...…...keeping the two combos together is hockey 101 and somebody failed that course! |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 7, 2020 10:51:50 GMT -6
^^ I think someone could make a good case that no one from last year's draft should have been in the NHL this year. I feel Dach should have been back in juniors and neither Hughes or Kaako put up much in the way of offensive numbers. Turcotte went to college and found out offense was a little harder to come by than it was with the US Dev. teams. It might have been better for Hughes in the long run but these top picks go to poor teams so they get rushed up. Since the Hawks had Strome, I've wondered why they didn't just hang onto AA and let Dach stay in juniors for another year. The team had been trying to trade AA for some time and there were no other takers. Sending Dach back to juniors would have been like sending a triple A player to house league and expect him to improve and not pick up bad habits. Physically Hughes and Kaako were no match for Dach and would have benefitted from another year of growth. If it were not for his injury at the Traverse City tournament Dach would have put up better numbers. Dach is a two way player and physically showed he belonged. If Dach gained 10-15 pounds he would be a beast. Debrincat and Strome were given a pass for their lower goal production because they played on the lower lines but so did Dach.
Toews is getting older and Dach is being groomed to take over Toews defensive responsibilities and who better than Toews to groom him. Toews defensive play was helped along by Hossa playing on his line and it's time for Toews to pass it along to Dach. Toews is one of the top faceoff men in the league and Dach will benefit greatly being in Toews company.
The problem with this past season was that the 'hawks were being set up by Bowman the Lesser to win this season, not to develop. That being the case then yes, our youth should have spend time down to develop. Dach may not looked horribly out of place, but being down for a year wouldn't have hurt at all--especially with the team the 'hawks iced. |
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Post by BigT on Jul 7, 2020 11:21:14 GMT -6
I think the fix is in. I don’t trust the NHL when it comes to the lotto. You ever play the lotto? It’s tough just to get your Dawe damn money back. Every year someone seems to win big, for the drama. The Hawks got scammed in 2004 and 05. We were either the worst team or the 2nd worst team and we lost on both years. Both generational talents to come out in consecutive years. We also missed out on Malkin in 04. Both the Pens and Capitals were for sale those years. Jim Balsaile tried to buy both teams in consecutive years. And both teams got the 1st overall to keep the teams put. It sucked the life outta the Hawks for another few years at least. I doubt we get it this year, I’m gonna say Arizona gets it. Gary and co are far behind in getting them a top pick. I think it’s just the order of things. If the Hawks do get it. I seriously have to wonder if the Bowman’s are a gawd damn mafia and have way too much sway in the league. No way the Hawks move up last year to 3 and now to 1!!! I actually think the 1st overall pick is given to Montreal and not Arizona. The Habs are money for the NHL, just think if the Quebec born player is drafted by the Habs in Montreal where the draft is supposed to be held, and or the New York Rangers. That’s also a possibility. Just like when Mr Blackberry tried to buy every and any hockey team. Every team he attempted to purchase got the 1st overall and the team stayed put. Seemed very convenient to me. The Hawks got shut out during those years and they were worse than them. Then we lost again in 2006, and finally got the pick 4 years later in 2007. Seemed very fishy to me how the worst team with the best odds failed to win the 1st overall that many years in a row. And the Oilers had financial problems back then before Darryl Katz bought them and the somehow received 3 of the damn things ....... conveniently. So if the Habs get it to help sell the game better to many Canadians, I could see that too. But Arizona has been needing this for some time!!! |
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Post by doogiew on Jul 7, 2020 15:05:02 GMT -6
Well all I've been following this a bit, and I hope the Hawks win the cup. To suggest that they would be better to lose in the preliminary and get a 12.5% chance for even a first over all lacks thought. Getting Lafreniere offers no surety to winning anything over the net decade. Ask all of the players and those before them who never won a cup.
No the Hawks should play to win the cup. However in all seriousness that has little chance of happening. They are more likely to win the draft lottery by ten fold.
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Post by hsbob on Jul 8, 2020 8:54:05 GMT -6
The team had been trying to trade AA for some time and there were no other takers. Sending Dach back to juniors would have been like sending a triple A player to house league and expect him to improve and not pick up bad habits. Physically Hughes and Kaako were no match for Dach and would have benefitted from another year of growth. If it were not for his injury at the Traverse City tournament Dach would have put up better numbers. Dach is a two way player and physically showed he belonged. If Dach gained 10-15 pounds he would be a beast. Debrincat and Strome were given a pass for their lower goal production because they played on the lower lines but so did Dach.
Toews is getting older and Dach is being groomed to take over Toews defensive responsibilities and who better than Toews to groom him. Toews defensive play was helped along by Hossa playing on his line and it's time for Toews to pass it along to Dach. Toews is one of the top faceoff men in the league and Dach will benefit greatly being in Toews company.
The problem with this past season was that the 'hawks were being set up by Bowman the Lesser to win this season, not to develop. That being the case then yes, our youth should have spend time down to develop. Dach may not looked horribly out of place, but being down for a year wouldn't have hurt at all--especially with the team the 'hawks iced. This begs the question why a GM in win this season mode would trade a legitimate,NHL center who was having another nice season with the Sens for a washed up,4th line wing to save a million bucks. Since JC demoted Strome to a bottom six wing,AA woulda EASILY been the team's 2nd best center this year but it was Carpenter instead. Who was SB counting on to center the team after JC this year anyway? An 18yro? A 4th line wing? Carpenter had one fairly decent NHL season before joining the team,was it him. The team did have Kampf who handles the 4LC duties well but 2LC and 3LC was a mish-mosh to put it mildly. |
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Post by LordKOTL on Jul 8, 2020 13:14:34 GMT -6
The problem with this past season was that the 'hawks were being set up by Bowman the Lesser to win this season, not to develop. That being the case then yes, our youth should have spend time down to develop. Dach may not looked horribly out of place, but being down for a year wouldn't have hurt at all--especially with the team the 'hawks iced. This begs the question why a GM in win this season mode would trade a legitimate,NHL center who was having another nice season with the Sens for a washed up,4th line wing to save a million bucks. Since JC demoted Strome to a bottom six wing,AA woulda EASILY been the team's 2nd best center this year but it was Carpenter instead. Who was SB counting on to center the team after JC this year anyway? An 18yro? A 4th line wing? Carpenter had one fairly decent NHL season before joining the team,was it him. The team did have Kampf who handles the 4LC duties well but 2LC and 3LC was a mish-mosh to put it mildly. I think you know my take: Stan like to think, and try to show everyone, that he's the smartest guy in the room. We know he's not. |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 8, 2020 18:41:02 GMT -6
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Post by BigT on Jul 8, 2020 20:59:15 GMT -6
Thanks Vade! I didn’t thumb through all of that, but I wonder if they’ll move up the draft if the season doesn’t happen? With the way things are going, I doubt this season gets finished. I’m more worried about next season tbh!!! |
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Post by vadarx on Jul 8, 2020 21:30:54 GMT -6
Thanks Vade! I didn’t thumb through all of that, but I wonder if they’ll move up the draft if the season doesn’t happen? With the way things are going, I doubt this season gets finished. I’m more worried about next season tbh!!! with the dearth of sports happening in August, I would guess that they likely would have it asap so as to take advantage of the lack of sports on the tube. |
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